NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/01/sports/othersports/01landis.html?ei=5065&en=62f8b57a3bf5609d&ex=1155096000&partner=MYWAY&pagewanted=print

Oooh - more doping accusation abounds...

But Americans have a reason for suddenly higher testosterone levels...


July 31, 2006
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(WebMD) Handling a gun makes men's testosterone levels rise — and makes them more aggressive.

The finding comes from a study by psychology student Jennifer Klinesmith and her professors at Knox College, Galesburg, Ill. Klinesmith designed the study, in which 18- to 22-year-old college men participated.

Klinesmith told the men they'd be taking part in a study of the effect of attention to detail on taste sensitivity. She collected a saliva sample for testosterone testing. Then she led each man into a room where he sat at a table with an object on it. The man had to take apart the object and put it back together according to instructions.

For half the men, the object was a pellet gun that mimicked a Desert Eagle automatic handgun. The other half of the men worked with a child's game called Mouse Trap.

Fifteen minutes later, the men gave another saliva sample. Then they were asked to taste a lidded 3-ounce cup of water with a drop of Frank's Red Hot Sauce in it.

Hot-Sauce Trick

Finally, the men were given a 3-ounce cup of water and a bottle of the hot sauce. They were told the water would be given to the next man in the study, and that they could — anonymously — put as much hot sauce in the water as they liked.

This hot-sauce trick has been used before. The more aggressive a man is feeling, the more hot sauce he tends to put in the next guy's drink.

Sure enough, testosterone went up about 100 times more in the men who handled the gun than in the men who handled the children's toy. And the gun handlers put three times more hot sauce in the water — on average, about a half ounce — than the toy handlers. The more a man's testosterone went up after gun handling, the more hot sauce he put in the water.

"Such findings raise many of the usual questions about whether the presence of guns in modern society contributes to violent behavior," Klinesmith and colleagues conclude. "Although our study is clearly far from definitive, its results suggest that guns may indeed increase aggressiveness partially via changes in the hormone testosterone."

Indeed, after debriefing, many of the men said they were disappointed that the water they'd spiked with hot sauce wasn't really going to be given to another unsuspecting man.

The study appears in the July issue of Psychological Science.

SOURCES:: Klinesmith, J. Psychological Science, July 2006; Vol. 17 pp. 568-571.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/01/sports/othersports/01landis.html?ei=5065&en=62f8b57a3bf5609d&ex=1155096000&partner=MYWAY&pagewanted=print

Oooh - more doping accusation abounds...

But Americans have a reason for suddenly higher testosterone levels...

...whereas Gatlin got his testosterone from an outside source.
The sprinter underwent a carbon-isotope ratio test which can determine whether the testosterone in a person's system is natural or unnatural.
Gatlin, who won his Olympic gold in Athens two years ago, admitted he has tested positive for "testosterone or its precursors" that have come from an exogenous, or outside, source. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/athletics/5228246.stm

...whereas Gatlin got his testosterone from an outside source.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/athletics/5228246.stm
I prefer the more hilarious explanation...

I prefer the more hilarious explanation...
That guns make you violent?

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/01/sports/othersports/01landis.html?ei=5065&en=62f8b57a3bf5609d&ex=1155096000&partner=MYWAY&pagewanted=print

Oooh - more doping accusation abounds...

But Americans have a reason for suddenly higher testosterone levels...Landis isn't accused of doping for having high testosterone values. He's accused of doping because his testosterone/epitestosterone value is unnaturally high.

Landis isn't accused of doping for having high testosterone values. He's accused of doping because his testosterone/epitestosterone value is unnaturally high.
Well, a study shows that just handling a gun can make a man have 100 times the normal level of testosterone, and the limit for the race is 4 times.

We should hand Landis a gun and test his testosterone...

Let's ignore the fact that doctor's know more about chemistry than you..

Let's ignore the fact that doctor's know more about chemistry than you..
Let's ignore the fact that you have absolutely no sense of humor... :fluffle:

Well, a study shows that just handling a gun can make a man have 100 times the normal level of testosterone, and the limit for the race is 4 times.

We should hand Landis a gun and test his testosterone...
So where does a bottle of Evian and a piece of Brie leave one's testosterone levels? Down there in the effeminate region, I'd guess.

Let's ignore the fact that doctor's know more about chemistry than you..

Don't be ridiculous; didn't you know he's an expert on every subject?

Let's ignore the fact that you have absolutely no sense of humor... :fluffle:
You keep pushing the point in an unhumorous manner.

Don't be ridiculous; didn't you know he's an expert on every subject?
Oh shit, I forgot.

All hail Kimchi, the bringer of knowledge.
Now some one chain him to a rock and borrow a vulture.

You keep pushing the point in an unhumorous manner.


Oh shit, I forgot.

All hail Kimchi, the bringer of knowledge.

What part is unhumorous? The study that proves that gun handling raises testosterone by a factor of 100? Are they not knowledgable researchers?

I'm just quoting them...

Well, a study shows that just handling a gun can make a man have 100 times the normal level of testosterone, and the limit for the race is 4 times.

We should hand Landis a gun and test his testosterone...That's absolute bullshit, DK. The limit isn't a testosterone value of 4, its a testosterone/epitestosterone value of 4. The absolute value of your testosterone is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT. The only thing that matters is the amount of testosterone divided by the amount of epitestosterone in your body.
Natural production of testosterone invariably produces epitestosterone. The usual value for the ratio is 1. The limit used to be 6, now it is 4. Landis had a value of 11. Handing him a gun wouldn't have changed the value much, since any testoterone he produced would have been compensated by epitestosterone.

What you're basically saying is akin to claiming that since France has a GDP of $ 2 trillion and the US has a GDP per capita of $ 41,800, French make more than Americans.

That's absolute bullshit, DK. The limit isn't a testosterone value of 4, its a testosterone/epitestosterone value of 4. The absolute value of your testosterone is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT. The only thing that matters is the amount of testosterone divided by the amount of epitestosterone in your body.
Natural production of testosterone invariably produces epitestosterone. The usual value for the ratio is 1. The limit used to be 6, now it is 4. Landis had a value of 11. Handing him a gun wouldn't have changed the value much, since any testoterone he produced would have been compensated by epitestosterone.

What you're basically saying is akin to claiming that since France has a GDP of $ 2 trillion and the US has a GDP per capita of $ 41,800, French make more than Americans.


While I do believe that it's probably cheating, it's also possible biologically to have the ratios out of synch to a great degree.

Biology is not one of those things where we're all really identical within close limits. There can be tremendous variation.

While I do believe that it's probably cheating, it's also possible biologically to have the ratios out of synch to a great degree.

Biology is not one of those things where we're all really identical within close limits. There can be tremendous variation.

http://concordspedpac.org/Bell-curve-sm1.bmp

While I do believe that it's probably cheating, it's also possible biologically to have the ratios out of synch to a great degree.

Biology is not one of those things where we're all really identical within close limits. There can be tremendous variation.

11 times.

Not just two or three, which the doping limit allows for, but 11 times.

While I do believe that it's probably cheating, it's also possible biologically to have the ratios out of synch to a great degree.

Biology is not one of those things where we're all really identical within close limits. There can be tremendous variation.Indeed, it is possible. But these are usually identifiably by more than just the values. Then again, a value of 1 is normal for human beings. 4 is stretching it. 11 requires something very obvious which no one can question. Medication he's taking for his hip could theoretically (I don't know what he's taking, this is just a possibility) cause such values. But then it would still be doping.

. Medication he's taking for his hip could theoretically (I don't know what he's taking, this is just a possibility) cause such values. But then it would still be doping.
Cortizone injections apparently.

Cortizone injections apparently.

Are those legitimate during a race? Isn't cortizone a steroid?

Are those legitimate during a race? Isn't cortizone a steroid?
You started a topic that you don't understand, woo hoo!

You started a topic that you don't understand, woo hoo!
I started a topic in order to be funny, but you can't be bothered to be silly for once.

Are those legitimate during a race? Isn't cortizone a steroid?

He [Landis] also said cortisone shots he has been taking for a hip problem or medication he has been using to treat a thyroid condition might have had an effect.

I don't know what the medical/chemical term for cortisone is but here a link of the World Anti-Doping Code's banned substances and steroids:

http://www.wada-ama.org/rtecontent/document/list_2005.pdf

I started a topic in order to be funny, but you can't be bothered to be silly for once.
Too bad you didn't or you missed Comedy 101 as well.

I don't know what the medical/chemical term for cortisone is but here a link of the World Anti-Doping Code's banned substances and steroids:

http://www.wada-ama.org/rtecontent/document/list_2005.pdf

Cortisone is 17-hydroxy-11-dehydrocorticosterone.

As an aside, what possible athletic benefit is there from cannabis?? It's on the list of banned substances, but I'm hard pressed to figure out how that would help anyone win a race.

Cortisone is 17-hydroxy-11-dehydrocorticosterone.

As an aside, what possible athletic benefit is there from cannabis?? It's on the list of banned substances, but I'm hard pressed to figure out how that would help anyone win a race.
Have you ever watched a bike race? Being high could kill somebody.

Cortisone is 17-hydroxy-11-dehydrocorticosterone.

As an aside, what possible athletic benefit is there from cannabis?? It's on the list of banned substances, but I'm hard pressed to figure out how that would help anyone win a race.
Ah, that is question I keep having to ask myself. *sigh*

*grumbles*
Poxy random drug tests at comps. :mad:

Oh shit, I forgot.

All hail Kimchi, the bringer of knowledge.
Now some one chain him to a rock and borrow a vulture.

Dude, I just skipped the rest of the thread, because I feel compelled to give you kudos for the Greek mythological reference.