NationStates Jolt Archive

Ive noticed that when I buy a some product which has a manual that is printred in multiple languages, the text in English almost invariably takes up less space than the text of any other language. I dont know why. I have several uneducated guesses though.

Maybe English is generally more efficient (in space used on paper) for explaining the operation of products.

Maybe the manuals were written in English and inefficiently translated.

Maybe some subtle meaning or information is not given in English but is given in other languages.

Has anyone else noticed this tendency? What are your thoughts?

Ive noticed that almost any product I buy which has a product manual in multiple languages, the text in English is almost invariably the shortest. I dont know why. I have several uneducated guesses though.

Maybe English is generally more efficient (im space used on paper) for explaining the operation of products.

Maybe the manuals were written in English and inefficiently translated.

Maybe some subtle meaning or information is not given in English but is given in other languages.

Has anyone else noticed this tendency? What are your thoughts?


Some languages are always shorter than others:
check Latin for brevity,
and german for longwindedness.

This is true. Take Irish for example the word for ice cream has almost a third more letters!

Some languages are always shorter than others:
check Latin for brevity,
and german for longwindedness.

I am imagining a router's instruction manual in latin.


*shudders*

This is true. Take Irish for example the word for ice cream has almost a third more letters!

True. But then again, probably only two of those letters are actually pronounced.

I am imagining a router's instruction manual in latin.


*shudders*


hey Latin is great!


But then again, probably only two of those letters are actually pronounced.

LOL!

True. But then again, probably only two of those letters are actually pronounced.

Donaudaempferkapitaensmutsenknoepfchen!
:fluffle:

Donaudaempferkapitaensmutsenknoepfchen!
:fluffle:

Donaudampfschiffahrtskapitaensmuetzenlitzenmachermeisterwitwe is the correct word ;)

Edit : Translates as : Widow of a master (skilled artisan) in making lacings for the hats for captains of the society of steam ships on the Danube

Donaudampfschiffahrtskapitaensmuetzenlitzenmachermeisterwitwe is the correct word ;)


No doubt - but I don't pretend to do correct german. :p

Donaudampfschiffahrtskapitaensmuetzenlitzenmachermeisterwitwe is the correct word ;)

Edit : Translates as : Widow of a master (skilled artisan) in making lacings for the hats for captains of the society of steam ships on the Danube


??? Where do you get info like this?

??? Where do you get info like this?

It's an inscription on a gravestone in Vienna's Zentralfriedhof, for the widow of... well, you know the rest ;)

I was always quite partial to the Dackelkindmamihalsbandblechmarkennummer myself. That had a nice little story with it as well.

No, but generally I find that German seems to have a few more nuances available. I realise that English has probably a similar number of words (probably more, actually), but at least for me, German is probably better to express certain very complex ideas.

But then, it's my first language, so I don't qualify. ;)

But seriously, don't tell me that you can accurately translate (including nuances and tone) this: http://www.zeit.de/2006/31/finis_31

Maybe it's precisely because German can be so longwinded that you can get sarcasm across so well...

English is an efficient language, but is imprecise. For example, I can say, "prostitutes appeal to pope." Without further information, you can derive two - entirely different - meanings from this sentence.

Donaudampfschiffahrtskapitaensmuetzenlitzenmachermeisterwitwe is the correct word ;)

Edit : Translates as : Widow of a master (skilled artisan) in making lacings for the hats for captains of the society of steam ships on the Danube



This reminds me of a Samuel Clemens quotation




To aid a local charity Samuel Clemens appeared before a fashionable audience in Vienna, March 10, 1899, reading his sketch "The Lucerne Girl," and describing how he had been interviewed and ridiculed. He said in part:


"I have not sufficiently mastered German, to allow my using it with impunity. My collection of fourteen-syllable German words is still incomplete. But I have just added to that collection a jewel-- a veritable jewel. I found it in a telegram from Linz, and it contains ninety-five letters:


Personaleinkommensteuerschätzungskommissionsmitgliedsreisekostenrechnungsergänzungsrevisionsfund


If I could get a similar word engraved upon my tombstone I should sleep beneath it in peace. "

Font size.

Chinese is even more efficient than English. Of course, their characters are more compacted.

Personaleinkommensteuerschätzungskommissionsmitgliedsreisekostenrechnungsergänzungsrevisionsfund
Golden!

Another few nice ones:
Rindfleischetikettierungsüberwachungsaufgabenübertragungsgesetz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rindfleischetikettierungs%C3%BCberwachungsaufgaben%C3%BCbertragungsgesetz) (and unlike the others, this isn't just for fun, it's the actual name of an actual law!)

Donaudampfschifffahrtselektrizitätenhauptbetriebswerkbauunterbeamtengesellschaft (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donaudampfschiffahrtselektrizit%C3%A4tenhauptbetriebswerkbauunterbeamtengesellschaft)
The actual name of a union, in reformed German writing...80 letters.

Ive noticed that when I buy a some product which has a manual that is printred in multiple languages, the text in English almost invariably takes up less space than the text of any other language. I dont know why. I have several uneducated guesses though.

Maybe English is generally more efficient (in space used on paper) for explaining the operation of products.

Maybe the manuals were written in English and inefficiently translated.

Maybe some subtle meaning or information is not given in English but is given in other languages.

Has anyone else noticed this tendency? What are your thoughts?

Thats the same way with Arabic, English needs a couple of lines to describe something that is clearly understood in a couple of Arabic words...

example..

Eng-

i have no idea where english started, but shakepsearian english is one of the hardest english on Earth, and the English accents may vary from place to place, so imagine an Irish Shakespearian English.

Arb-

ما عندى اى فكره عن نشأة الانجليزيه, لاكن الانجليزية الشكسبيرية هى من اصعبها علي الارض, كما تختلف اللهجات من مكان الى اخر,فما بالك باللهجه الايرلنديه الشكسبيرية .

Eng-

i have no idea where english started, but shakepsearian english is one of the hardest english on Earth, and the English accents may vary from place to place, so imagine an Irish Shakespearian English.

Arb-

ما عندى اى فكره عن نشأة الانجليزيه, لاكن الانجليزية الشكسبيرية هى من اصعبها علي الارض, كما تختلف اللهجات من مكان الى اخر,فما بالك باللهجه الايرلنديه الشكسبيرية .

That is efficient!

I've noticed that a German text contains fewer words than the corresponding English text, but has more letters because the words are longer.

As for brevity:

ix = ""boy who is not able to satisfactorily to explain what a Hrung is, nor why it should choose to collapse on Betelgeuse Seven."

You don't get much more efficient than that.

Most linguist say English has far more words than any other language, but then as shown with German, how does one count words? Because of the number of words in English there are more shades of how to say something. The problem with that is each mind shades those meanings slightly differently so the meaning gets lost in the transmission. But in answer to the original question, English words are short and full of shades so the meaning can be translated with less space.

there is a logica,if you have to say it,you say it ,culturel dependant or not

Most linguist say English has far more words than any other language, but then as shown with German, how does one count words? Because of the number of words in English there are more shades of how to say something. The problem with that is each mind shades those meanings slightly differently so the meaning gets lost in the transmission. But in answer to the original question, English words are short and full of shades so the meaning can be translated with less space.
Nicely put (when the world-mind matures, the problem of interpreting meaning will go away).

The English vocabulary is basically Anglo-Saxon, to which Norman French was added (1066 and all that) and then Latin borrowings during the Renaissance. English developed the habit of borrowing early and does it with a vengeance. (My fave is the word "redingote," a kind of overcoat. It's a borrowing from French. But "redingote" in French was actually borrowed first from the English "riding coat." The French form came back over the Channel because it was chic.)

English is an efficient language, but is imprecise. For example, I can say, "prostitutes appeal to pope." Without further information, you can derive two - entirely different - meanings from this sentence.

But if you wanted to avoid the ambiguity it would be easy enough. For example, "prostitutes make an appeal to the pope". (Though less efficient).

I remember reading a while back that a lot of german corporations were switching their board meetings to english because it is more efficient.

Just think about how much more efficient things will be when we all switch to Newspeak. :)

Just think about how much more efficient things will be when we all switch to Newspeak. :)
;) We speak Newspeak. We have always spoken Newspeak.

doubleplus good

While languages like French are necessarily more long-winded*, I suspect this constitent difference is caused by the manauls being written in English and then translated. Translations are often longer.

Different languages offer different levels of precision to different things (like Inuk with snow, or Greek with love). Mimicking that in another language typically requires a bunch of extra words.

* for example, the questions "What is it?" and "What is that?", when translated to French become "Qu'est-ce que c'est?" and "Qu'est-ce que c'est que?", which literally are "What is it what it is?" and "What is it what it is what?"

English is an efficient language. It accomplishes communication with a minimum number of syllables. Of course, that being the case, drives the speaker of English to realize he doesn't need to talk quite as fast. As such, when speaking, an English speaker takes roughly the same amount of time to say something, but uses far fewer words than his counterpart who speaks a romance language. German and the more closely related languages (than English) tend to take longer, just because of the sheer size of some German words. (see: The Awful German Language, By: Mark Twain)

While languages like French are necessarily more long-winded*, I suspect this constitent difference is caused by the manauls being written in English and then translated. Translations are often longer.

Different languages offer different levels of precision to different things (like Inuk with snow, or Greek with love). Mimicking that in another language typically requires a bunch of extra words.

* for example, the questions "What is it?" and "What is that?", when translated to French become "Qu'est-ce que c'est?" and "Qu'est-ce que c'est que?", which literally are "What is it what it is?" and "What is it what it is what?"
What? (Sorry, couldn't resist.;) )

Precision does vary, naturally. What is it, 29 words for "snow" in the Inuit languages? Of course, the Romance languages are just badly-spoken provincial Latin, so what can you expect? :p

An interesting fact is that both Greek and Latin a short on words for color. Did they see fewer? Perhaps their artists couldn't make up more than a few, not having the chemical resources we have now. Linguists have studied the Indo-European languages, trying to pin down the land where its speakers originated by looking to see what words are in the base vocabulary, as best as can be determined. Something to do with a land with beech trees but not salmon, or maybe the other way around. Theories abound. I attended a lecture on the origin of the Indo-Europeans which began, "The homeland of hte Indo-Europeans has been found!" Then the lecturer showed a slide of the entire Eastern hemisphere and said, "Here it is!"

That is efficient!
Look how small the arabic letters are though. The spaces in between lines are much smaller than in the English letters.

An interesting fact is that both Greek and Latin a short on words for color. Did they see fewer?
The ability to express color tends to be sex specific. Men tend to use "rainbow" colors....purple, blue, green, yellow, orange, red. Women have words for hundreds of colors.

The ability to express color tends to be sex specific. Men tend to use "rainbow" colors....purple, blue, green, yellow, orange, red. Women have words for hundreds of colors.
You forgot brown.

Nicely put (when the world-mind matures, the problem of interpreting meaning will go away).

The English vocabulary is basically Anglo-Saxon, to which Norman French was added (1066 and all that) and then Latin borrowings during the Renaissance. English developed the habit of borrowing early and does it with a vengeance. (My fave is the word "redingote," a kind of overcoat. It's a borrowing from French. But "redingote" in French was actually borrowed first from the English "riding coat." The French form came back over the Channel because it was chic.)

English is only a little less than half Anglo-Saxon in origin. It is also a little less than half Latin in origin. Yes English borrows, but it only rarely does this when it already has a term for the precise concept involved.

However, having more than twice the number of words than the average European language, and also having simplified its grammar to reduce redundancy, English is a lot more efficient than other European languages. Not knowing any non Europoean languages I cannot compare it to them.

Precision does vary, naturally. What is it, 29 words for "snow" in the Inuit languages?

Nope, according to Boaz there are four words, but Whorf lists seven words.

Nope, according to Boaz there are four words, but Whorf lists seven words.

do those cover the half-states of snow, like slush?

Thats the same way with Arabic, English needs a couple of lines to describe something that is clearly understood in a couple of Arabic words...

example..

Eng-

i have no idea where english started, but shakepsearian english is one of the hardest english on Earth, and the English accents may vary from place to place, so imagine an Irish Shakespearian English.

Arb-

ما عندى اى فكره عن نشأة الانجليزيه, لاكن الانجليزية الشكسبيرية هى من اصعبها علي الارض, كما تختلف اللهجات من مكان الى اخر,فما بالك باللهجه الايرلنديه الشكسبيرية .
That's a good exercise. Let's see:

Literal Spanish translation:
No tengo idea de donde se originó el inglés, pero el inglés shakespeariano es uno de los más difíciles sobre la Tierra, y los acentos del inglés pueden cambiar de un lugar a otro, así imagine un inglés shakespeariano irlandés.

Compact Spanish translation:

No sé donde se inició el inglés, pero el shakespeariano es de los más difíciles de la Tierra, y sus acentos varían según el lugar, imaginen un inglés shakespeariano irlandés.

Of course, the English version could be compacted too. I guess it depends on how you want to do it.

Whoa ... dude ... I'm so Rosetta Stoned right now ...