NationStates Jolt Archive

what is that thing you guys say about absence of evidence or something?

and also, is it my job to prove the negative?

help in debate elsewhere needed..........

I believe the phrase you seek is "Burden of proof", which usually falls to the prosecution in a trial.

what is that thing you guys say about absence of evidence or something?

and also, is it my job to prove the negative?

help in debate elsewhere needed..........
If you are looking for the quaint saying “Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence”

Lack of evidence is not proof that the hypothesis is false. The burden of proof is on the one claiming that it is true. They have to prove it's true. You can't prove a negative.

no, it's something like absence of evidence does not mean absence of ..........I can't remember

no, it's something like absence of evidence does not mean absence of ..........I can't remember
Look at my post

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11470610&postcount=3

If you are looking for the quaint saying “Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence”
you are my hero!

Lack of evidence is not proof that the hypothesis is false. The burden of proof is on the one claiming that it is true. They have to prove it's true. You can't prove a negative.
you also.........HERO!

Glad I could help, dear. :)

not sure how much it actually helped, I replied with my "well thought out argument" including the things I was looking for here and found (thank you guys) and they decided to ignore me, except for the one who flamed me, but that's what she always does, it's like her MO

stupid arguement
my intelligent rebuttle
flame


same thing every day, la-la-la-la........

at least around here the mods are fair and balanced. ;)

The two themes however tend to run against each other.

Statement:

There is god.

No there isn't, there's no proof.

Well absense of evidence is not evidence of absence

But you still owe the burden of proof.

In other words...even though if you have no evidence to show that what you say is NOT true, by saying it you carry the burden of proof to show that it IS true.

The two themes however tend to run against each other.

Statement:

There is god.

No there isn't, there's no proof.

Well absense of evidence is not evidence of absence

But you still owe the burden of proof.

In other words...even though if you have no evidence to show that what you say is NOT true, by saying it you carry the burden of proof to show that it IS true.

yeah, I get it, she didn't understand what I was trying to say though. (I guess, or worse she did and decided to call me inappropriate things anyway)

she says "my new spiritual advisor says so and so, and you are wrong because he said that you are and that's what I believe because he said so and if you want to prove me wrong, then you have to find proof that he is wrong by looking for specific scriptural backing"

she is oblivious to the fact that the Bible doesn't address it at all (which is the basis for my arguement)

Ah, she was losing the debate, so she threw a hissy fit.

Isn't NSG usually the cause of brain deaths?

Ah, she was losing the debate, so she threw a hissy fit.
yeah, it's very "group think" over there, and apparently they all thought that she was winning until I came back with my intelligent thought and then they all decided that I was "wrong" on the basis that I am "weird" and then she gets all pissy every single day, she flames me, and I quit reporting them until today when she said something way out of line and the mod says

"well, if you had been acting like a lady instead of questioning her intelligence she wouldn't have had to call you that"

I didn't question her intelligence, I replied with some pure intelligent thought, and well, I guess that's what happens.

Sounds lovely. Kind of makes this place look like the Algonquin Round Table.

it's my curse. I am too extreme for the mainstream and yet to mainstream for the extreme, and believe me there is no middle between them when it comes to Christian homeschooling groups.

All I ever ask is when they say "this is the way a Christian should be" or "this is what is right at church" and say that it's "God's way" is a scriptural reference, all I want is if they say "God wants this" then point me to a verse in the Bible, and all I got back today is "give us a verse that proves us wrong" :rolleyes:

I got forum banned, mostly my fault though, didn't deal well with that response from the mod.

it's my curse. I am too extreme for the mainstream and yet to mainstream for the extreme, and believe me there is no middle between them when it comes to Christian homeschooling groups.

All I ever ask is when they say "this is the way a Christian should be" or "this is what is right at church" and say that it's "God's way" is a scriptural reference, all I want is if they say "God wants this" then point me to a verse in the Bible, and all I got back today is "give us a verse that proves us wrong" :rolleyes:

I got forum banned, mostly my fault though, didn't deal well with that response from the mod.


What was the issue Smunkeeville?
Also, I don't recall you being a christian, have I just not been paying attention?

What was the issue Smunkeeville?
Also, I don't recall you being a christian, have I just not been paying attention?
actually, I am a Christian, a Southern Baptist, highly conservative Christian, in the strict definition I am a fundamentalist Christian.

Fundamentalist Christianity, or Christian fundamentalism is a movement which arose mainly within American Protestantism in the late 19th and early 20th centuries by conservative evangelical Christians, who, in a reaction to modernism, actively affirmed a "fundamental" set of Christian beliefs: the inerrancy of the Bible, the virgin birth of Christ, the doctrine of substitutionary atonement, the bodily resurrection of Jesus, and the authenticity of his miracles.

from Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamentalist_Christianity)

To understand there are 3 basic schools of thought when it comes to homeschooling (I should say major, there are people inbetween all of them and I am one of the "inbetweens")

1 it should be just like school, set time for school, actual text books, grades, attendence books, tests, ect.

2 it should be like school (same as #1) but you can go on field trips, and have electives like taking a cooking class

3 it should be nothing like school, in fact this is called "unschooling" where the kids are left to learn from life, and pursue whatever they want no parental guidance past looking up what they are interested in, they can do school work or not, whichever makes them happy.

see, I don't "fit" with any of them, not that I care to, but I am members of different groups due to the fact that they have things I want.

I am a member of a "#1" group, because they have book swap, so I can get free books and trade out ones I don't use anymore. (which is helpful when I have a kid going through 2 grade levels a year)

I am a member of a "#2" group, because we can go to group rate outings for cheap, like getting into the history museum for $3 instead of $15

I am a member of the "#3" group because they just have some cool ideas for "sneaking in everyday learning"

see I don't really fit with any of them, nor would I want to #1 is too strict, #2 is almost right, but they don't deal well with my "we can do school on Saturday, so that Wednesday we can go to the zoo" and the #3 group thinks I am "too strict" since my kids have math books.

It was with the #3 group that I had a problem today, see there is a woman who "unchurches" meaning they don't go to church, I am cool with that whatever, but she says today "children and women shouldn't go to church, if you are a woman and you go to church you are a bad Christian"

which set off all types of alarm bells with me, and I asked for scriptural backing, and all I got was "well, my husband's friend says so and he is super smart"

too long of an explaination?

I didn't question her intelligence, I replied with some pure intelligent thought, and well, I guess that's what happens.

Intelligence gets no respect among the unintelligent. The problem is that you have through some reasoning unfathomable to me, chosen to be a conservative christian, whereas most are simply indoctrinated with it and prefer not to think.

Intelligence gets no respect among the unintelligent. The problem is that you have through some reasoning unfathomable to me, chosen to be a conservative christian, whereas most are simply indoctrinated with it and prefer not to think.
willingness to be indoctrinated bothers me, I can find Bible verses that tell you to question doctrine, to think for yourself, to have discernment.......but apparently pulling them out for them does no good. They hate me, I got called a heathen 4 times today, 4 freaking times! that's a record. Funny thing is they were in 4 seperate conversations, it's like I am just way bad today or something.

willingness to be indoctrinated bothers me, I can find Bible verses that tell you to question doctrine, to think for yourself, to have discernment.......but apparently pulling them out for them does no good. They hate me, I got called a heathen 4 times today, 4 freaking times! that's a record. Funny thing is they were in 4 seperate conversations, it's like I am just way bad today or something.
Lol you get used to it … people like their groups and are scared of anything that threatens them.

Its why religion is such a societal motivating factor.

you know I am usually smart enough to leave them alone when they go debating things, but today, I don't know I couldn't let it slide...

I am tempted to post around my ban, I could do it, but if I get IP banned then...well, I really would be bad wouldn't I ?

you know I am usually smart enough to leave them alone when they go debating things, but today, I don't know I couldn't let it slide...

I am tempted to post around my ban, I could do it, but if I get IP banned then...well, I really would be bad wouldn't I ?

You say that like it's not a good thing.

you know I am usually smart enough to leave them alone when they go debating things, but today, I don't know I couldn't let it slide...

I am tempted to post around my ban, I could do it, but if I get IP banned then...well, I really would be bad wouldn't I ?
What forum and why did you get baned?

You say that like it's not a good thing.
they have it where I couldn't even view the forum without an account, so if I get IP banned I can't get an account, and there are aspects to the forum that are useful to me.

What forum and why did you get baned?

....The thread is like...two pages right? Weren't you here?

What forum and why did you get baned?
it's a Christian unschooling forum. ;)

I got banned (well, for 2 weeks anyway) for having a "disrespectful tone" with the moderator.

I really did get uh.... not nice, but she pissed me off.

....The thread is like...two pages right? Weren't you here?
Missed it sorry see it now

willingness to be indoctrinated bothers me, I can find Bible verses that tell you to question doctrine, to think for yourself, to have discernment.......but apparently pulling them out for them does no good. They hate me, I got called a heathen 4 times today, 4 freaking times! that's a record. Funny thing is they were in 4 seperate conversations, it's like I am just way bad today or something.

Why do you want to talk to people like that anyway? Just find out whose words they're reciting and listen to that person.

Why do you want to talk to people like that anyway? Just find out whose words they're reciting and listen to that person.
I know, I am usually smart enough to keep my mouth shut and let them be stupid, but really something is wrong with me today.

I know, I am usually smart enough to keep my mouth shut and let them be stupid, but really something is wrong with me today.
Ahhh I am just being a bad example to you lol I wouldn’t let that crap fly either. Lol you see me in MOST religious debates for that reason lol

actually, I am a Christian, a Southern Baptist, highly conservative Christian, in the strict definition I am a fundamentalist Christian.


Hmm, I really never got that vibe. Interesting
/me scribbles mentals notes


To understand there are 3 basic schools of thought when it comes to homeschooling (I should say major, there are people inbetween all of them and I am one of the "inbetweens")

1 it should be just like school, set time for school, actual text books, grades, attendence books, tests, ect.

2 it should be like school (same as #1) but you can go on field trips, and have electives like taking a cooking class

3 it should be nothing like school, in fact this is called "unschooling" where the kids are left to learn from life, and pursue whatever they want no parental guidance past looking up what they are interested in, they can do school work or not, whichever makes them happy.

see, I don't "fit" with any of them, not that I care to, but I am members of different groups due to the fact that they have things I want.

I am a member of a "#1" group, because they have book swap, so I can get free books and trade out ones I don't use anymore. (which is helpful when I have a kid going through 2 grade levels a year)

I am a member of a "#2" group, because we can go to group rate outings for cheap, like getting into the history museum for $3 instead of $15

I am a member of the "#3" group because they just have some cool ideas for "sneaking in everyday learning"

see I don't really fit with any of them, nor would I want to #1 is too strict, #2 is almost right, but they don't deal well with my "we can do school on Saturday, so that Wednesday we can go to the zoo" and the #3 group thinks I am "too strict" since my kids have math books.


Wow, you have much stricter definitions there than I'm familiar with.
I know a number of home schoolers and none of them fit any of those either.


It was with the #3 group that I had a problem today, see there is a woman who "unchurches" meaning they don't go to church, I am cool with that whatever, but she says today "children and women shouldn't go to church, if you are a woman and you go to church you are a bad Christian"

which set off all types of alarm bells with me, and I asked for scriptural backing, and all I got was "well, my husband's friend says so and he is super smart"



Alert! Alert! Alert!
Cult incoming, I say, cult incoming...
Segregation of the women and children from the church functions and the smart guy as the authority?

Is this typical for these people?


too long of an explaination?

Nope, my curiosity was satiated.

yeah, that stuff doesn't fly at my house or in my church either. We had a couple that visited and we were talking about something and the woman says "I don't believe that" and the Sunday school teacher asked her "what do you believe?" and she told us and he said "why?"

and she looked at him like a deer in the headlights, she couldn't tell you why she believed it, and when he looked up verses contrary to what she said she mumbled something about her preacher at her last church and said loudly "I don't want to know what the Bible says about it, leave me alone"

went to the bathroom, her husband followed a few minutes later and then they left. :confused:

oh, well. They probably wouldn't like it at our church anyway. LOL We seriously would have been fine if she wanted to argue her point, we would have enjoyed that.

Hmm, I really never got that vibe. Interesting
/me scribbles mentals notes
ask anyone around here I am uber-Christian. :p



Wow, you have much stricter definitions there than I'm familiar with.
I know a number of home schoolers and none of them fit any of those either.

not mine, where the local groups fall. I could start my own group of "inbetweens" if I wanted, but I am too busy.




Alert! Alert! Alert!
Cult incoming, I say, cult incoming...
Segregation of the women and children from the church functions and the smart guy as the authority?

did I forget to mention that they all live in a "planned community" outside of the city (read commune) and they all have a "family house" and then their own "pods" out from it that have a bedroom and living area, not that I am judgmental but they really are nuts.


Is this typical for these people?
pretty much. The way I found the group is one of the parents is in another group that I am a member of, and she is all "check out our website there is cool stuff" and there is, but I think they are a little bit wacky....

You should give us the URL so we can stage a mass NSG invasion!

[insert gun smilies here]

You should give us the URL so we can stage a mass NSG invasion!

[insert gun smilies here]
haha, thanks, but no thanks. I may be stupid, but I am not dumb.....or wait.......hmm........something.

However I must thank you for being very nice about my aversion to moving smileys.

yeah, that stuff doesn't fly at my house or in my church either. We had a couple that visited and we were talking about something and the woman says "I don't believe that" and the Sunday school teacher asked her "what do you believe?" and she told us and he said "why?"

and she looked at him like a deer in the headlights, she couldn't tell you why she believed it, and when he looked up verses contrary to what she said she mumbled something about her preacher at her last church and said loudly "I don't want to know what the Bible says about it, leave me alone"

went to the bathroom, her husband followed a few minutes later and then they left. :confused:

oh, well. They probably wouldn't like it at our church anyway. LOL We seriously would have been fine if she wanted to argue her point, we would have enjoyed that.

That's sad, really. My fiance got kicked out of a Sunday School class when he was younger for asking too many questions. I can't say for certain, but it might have contributed to the general disdain he had for Christians throughout part of his life.

In my opinion, people who can't take others questioning these things - and can't question them on their own - are probably weak in their faith. A person who is strong in their faith should be able to question these things, and hopefully find answers, without feeling that they need to run away from the conversation.

haha, thanks, but no thanks. I may be stupid, but I am not dumb.....or wait.......hmm........something.

However I must thank you for being very nice about my aversion to moving smileys.
Aw comeon! I will keep it tastefull I always like just plain ol debate with thoes dead set in their ways

we are very "question everything" at our church, that's one of the reasons we like it, and there are people who don't agree on everything and that's okay. There are a few doctrine specific things that you kinda have to agree with, but other than that it's all fluff, there are so many vague areas in the Bible it's doesn't pay to listen to what someone else says "is right" without looking it up and figureing it out on your own.

Aw comeon! I will keep it tastefull I always like just plain ol debate with thoes dead set in their ways

We'll need to bring in experts. Where's Jocabia?

Aw comeon! I will keep it tastefull I always like just plain ol debate with thoes dead set in their ways
start a thred, I can debate any side of any arguement, and then you can have fun.

my main thing is they all live local, like within 30 minutes of my house, if they really are as wacky as I think they are, I don't want to upset them further. LOL

Intelligence gets no respect among the unintelligent.


A viscious uppercut however gets universal respect across the caste lines you have arbitrarily set up.


The problem is that you have through some reasoning unfathomable to me, chosen to be a conservative christian, whereas most are simply indoctrinated with it and prefer not to think.
.

Is it possible in this case that you rather than smunkee are the one indoctrinated into your way of thinking and too inflexible/set in your ways to be totally open to something you do not or cannot understand?

start a thred, I can debate any side of any arguement, and then you can have fun.

my main thing is they all live local, like within 30 minutes of my house, if they really are as wacky as I think they are, I don't want to upset them further. LOL
And where do you live?

And where do you live?
you know where I live. ;) Oklahoma btw there is a wildfire burning south of my house now, headed north so if I disappear soon, that would be why.

you know where I live. ;) Oklahoma btw there is a wildfire burning south of my house now, headed north so if I disappear soon, that would be why.

Have you ever considered taking up smoking?

Have you ever considered taking up smoking?
not since I quit LOL

you know where I live. ;) Oklahoma btw there is a wildfire burning south of my house now, headed north so if I disappear soon, that would be why.
:) well think I found your forum but will keep it quet and respect your wishes to not get in a fight :)

:) well think I found your forum but will keep it quet and respect your wishes to not get in a fight :)
thanks.

while we are on the subject, one of them just called me, and said "about that stuff earlier, are there really people who think otherwise?"

I am working on a very long email for her, hopefully she reads it.

thanks.

while we are on the subject, one of them just called me, and said "about that stuff earlier, are there really people who think otherwise?"

I am working on a very long email for her, hopefully she reads it.
Lol well if you want a proof reader or what not feel free to message me or put it up here I am sure we would love making a very convincing email that is as acurate as we can get it :)

:) well think I found your forum but will keep it quet and respect your wishes to not get in a fight :)

Crazy stalker!

Crazy stalker!
meh, if I am going to be stalked UpwardThrust isn't my very last choice (although, he isn't my first either.........but I ain't sharing who is LOL)

meh, if I am going to be stalked UpwardThrust isn't my very last choice (although, he isn't my first either.........but I ain't sharing who is LOL)

Well at least you have a list. That's something.

Well at least you have a list. That's something.
I have OCD, I have lists of everything haha.

I have OCD, I have lists of everything haha.

Am I on the list? I have a fancy stalkermobile! :D

Am I on the list? I have a fancy stalkermobile! :D
unfortunately no, besides I thought you only liked Canadian girls? or was I mistaken?

There were only 10 slots on the list, and well, you just didn't make the cut.

However, it should be a happy time for you, gas prices being so high and all, I am sure your stalkermmobile doesn't have the best mileage. :)

Crazy stalker!
My JOB is information security ... lol in fact I should have been really sneeky and pulled it off without all the info she gave me. But some of thoes tools went into the black encrypted file on my backup raid for a reason lol

My JOB is information security ... lol in fact I should have been really sneeky and pulled it off without all the info she gave me. But some of thoes tools went into the black encrypted file on my backup raid for a reason lol
I want to see how good you are TG me a link ;)

I want to see how good you are TG me a link ;)
Alright closed all it down when I ran across it let me re look ... but right now have it down to a few possibilities but did just a quick once over

My JOB is information security ... lol in fact I should have been really sneeky and pulled it off without all the info she gave me. But some of thoes tools went into the black encrypted file on my backup raid for a reason lol

If that had been a could instead of a should I wouldnt have upgraded your status to scary.

unfortunately no, besides I thought you only liked Canadian girls? or was I mistaken?

^_^; More of a phase really...

There were only 10 slots on the list, and well, you just didn't make the cut.

However, it should be a happy time for you, gas prices being so high and all, I am sure your stalkermmobile doesn't have the best mileage. :)

Hmm....I suppose not...

Alright closed all it down when I ran across it let me re look ... but right now have it down to a few possibilities but did just a quick once over
My family used to tell me that I should be a detective because I have a photographic memory, would a photograpic memory help in your line of work?

it seems to hinder my tax preparation since I memorized all my clients SS numbers by accident.

If that had been a could instead of a should I wouldnt have upgraded your status to scary.
Lol I get the same information either way … one is just more fun and challenging … to be honest I did not try THAT hard tonight, I kept it legal

My family used to tell me that I should be a detective because I have a photographic memory, would a photograpic memory help in your line of work?

it seems to hinder my tax preparation since I memorized all my clients SS numbers by accident.
Depends in some forms yes … I have a freaky way of memorizing anything that becomes of interest myself as well… not photographic and very picky but crazy with the length and detail as long as I am in my “Zone”

My family used to tell me that I should be a detective because I have a photographic memory, would a photograpic memory help in your line of work?

it seems to hinder my tax preparation since I memorized all my clients SS numbers by accident.

The ability to forget can be the kindest blessing of all. I have a mind like a steel sieve.

Lol I get the same information either way … one is just more fun and challenging … to be honest I did not try THAT hard tonight, I kept it legal

You have much to teach us.

Actually, me, you have much to teach me.

You have much to teach us.

Actually, me, you have much to teach me.
:) its fun stuff have been whitehat for 5 years or so myself ...

Did you see the websites that had got nailed this week ... some big boys got hit in an anti isreal hack NASA NSA berkly (not sure why that one got hit) and a few sites out of the US got defaced through a SQL stack overflow

Cool stuff

:) its fun stuff have been whitehat for 5 years or so myself ...

Did you see the websites that had got nailed this week ... some big boys got hit in an anti isreal hack NASA NSA berkly (not sure why that one got hit) and a few sites out of the US got defaced through a SQL stack overflow

Cool stuff

Indeed.


Teaaaaaaach meeeeeeeee.....

:) some big boys got hit in an anti isreal hack NASA NSA


I first read that as "some good ol boys got hit in an anti Israel hack NASCAR..."

I was gonna open up a can of whoop ass on some hacker til I re read it.

Indeed.


Teaaaaaaach meeeeeeeee.....
Lol well if you are interested I now teach from the OTHER side of the line … how to keep yourself safe (I actually do teach a course on network security)

My text while math heavy (but they give you the algorithms) is Applied Algebra Codes Ciphers and Discrete Algorithms, by Darel W. Hardy and Carol L. Walker