NationStates Jolt Archive

This is only my opinion but here we go


Hezbollah may be losing the war tacticaly...but they are winning the war in strategic and political terms ...so why should they stop ?

Israel in an effort to keep their military casualties low ...decides not to do the proper thing and invade with combined arms ..identify the CORRECT targets and destroy Hezbollah militarily..they seem to be unwilling to shed the blood needed to do this .

VICTORY FOR HEZBOLLAH and if you are an Arab ...a HUGE boost in prestige for hezbollah ...they have the " mighty " israelis scared .

Israel despite the fact that it has NEVER in history been accomplished attempts to fight a war against a terrorist / insurgent type group ..using air power and stand off munitions like artilery ...thus causing collaterall damage in an age when every toddler has a video camera and the news is 24 seven..
Thus pictures of destroyed Lebenese buildings and crying momma's and children along with wailing men permiate the news ...completely overwhelming the Israeli pictures showing the same thing and the facts of the war...those being that Israel is one hundred percent justified...who cares...dead babies trump rights . not to mention attacking a town and place with huge significance from 1996 ( 160 civilians killed in a UN compound ) this time killing 50 or so ..like some attacking the site of the twin towers in Lebanese minds ...a huge fucking stupid and strange ...DUMB dumb dumb,,error by the Israelis..

HUGE Victory for Hezbollah that brings twice as much pressure on Israel and even pressure from the US ..as dumb as they are in diplomacy even they recognise the huge error in judgement and the consequences of the Israeli action .

DESPITE bombing the shit out of the infastructure yesterday was a huge increase in rockets and missile fired into Israel..seems Israel intel is a bit weak...a very dangerouse situation for a tiny country surrounded by enemies .

VICTORY Hezbollah ..again showing the rest of the Arab world what " lions " in the face of death they are ..IMO ..a better tool for recruitment than a million dead babies .


So here we have a country ..Israel..that started out with all the moral and legal justification in the world needed to wage a war against Hezbollah..
And they fucked it up so bad people are against them and for terrorist .

Now if thats not a HUGE victory ...so far ..for hezbollah I do not know what is ..

Israel better get on the ball...it seems they expect international forces to shed blood to do the job they are unwilling to do ..

Hey Israel ...fuck you..go in and carve out hezbollah..then talk about sending in troops ...its YOUR fucking job to defend your country .
I cant see any other strategy by the Israeli's except ..keep our casualties low and force the world to deal with Hezbollah...like hezbollah wont fire on international troops ? Kiss my ass bitch..grow some balls and go in and get them YOURSELVES...you are running out of time .

I posted that in another thread but it seems to be a topic worthy of discussion..


Do you see hezbollah running rings around Israel both politically and Militarily ?

The essence of war is to force your will on the enemy..it seems hezbollah is doing that to Israel right now .

Am I wrong ? could it be I am missing something ?

Sometimes you win by losing. Eventually people will see the atrocities of Goliath and side with David.

Do you see hezbollah running rings around Israel both politically and Militarily?yes I see.. actually I saw it on day one when the first shots were fired across the border. (check my post history)

Its too bad israel.. and specially US policymakers cannot see more than one week in advance.

if you can equip ships with anti-missile systems like goalkeeper and phalanx why don't the Israelis set up these systems on their border posts to shoot down the rockets or do the rockets fly too high?

agree with your analysis but I think you should also note that Hezbollah have deliberately set them up to kill civilkians by hiding things under villages etc.

if you can equip ships with anti-missile systems like goalkeeper and phalanx why don't the Israelis set up these systems on their border posts to shoot down the rockets or do the rockets fly too high?

agree with your analysis but I think you should also note that Hezbollah have deliberately set them up to kill civilkians by hiding things under villages etc.
what does that note mean to world opinion? NOTHING

all people see is that israel is killing civilians. it doesnt matter that they try to minimize civilian deaths while going after helbollah, they LOSE because those dead civilians are on the nightly news. hezbollah wins because they still exist.

its a genius level move on the part of hezbollah to hide among civilians. people they dont care about die and the enemy gets the blame for it. big win for them at no cost.

Hezbollah and Iran are the ones that will get what they want out of this. Hezbollah will be guranteed to be in the Lebanese government for decades, and Iran will have a puppet on the Israeli border.

And Israel, I'm afraid, walked straight into it.

what does that note mean to world opinion? NOTHING

all people see is that israel is killing civilians. it doesnt matter that they try to minimize civilian deaths while going after helbollah, they LOSE because those dead civilians are on the nightly news. hezbollah wins because they still exist.

its a genius level move on the part of hezbollah to hide among civilians. people they dont care about die and the enemy gets the blame for it. big win for them at no cost.

Don't get me wrong I think it is tactical genius (if incredibly cold-blooded) of HezB to use human-shields in the way it has. I think it may (possibly) backfire if it should ever emerge that civilians have been held in sensitive places against their will.

I think you are overplaying the power that the media has over Israel. Israelis see just as much of the carnage in Lebanon as anyone else, yet that has not done anything to diminish Israeli support for the military action, although the Israeli state claims to regret any collateral damage (and the people obviously do) - the fact is that Israel will stop at nothing to protect itself from its enemies.

Israel is ultimately able to destroy Hizbollah because it has infinite domestic support for its military actions. Israel simply needs to tell its people that Hizbollah wish to commit genocide against the Jews and that to allow them to remain so close to the border runs the risk of a second Holocaust, as long as the Israeli populace believes that, Israel can and will continue to pulverise Southern Lebanon untill such a time as Hizbollah is crippled, and will be able to say to hell with international criticism.

I think it can rely on continued domestic support but it is already getting extra ammunition ("bunker busting bombs") flown in from the US via Britain which is just one example of its dependence on foreign relations to be able to continue the prosecution of this campaign.

I think it can rely on continued domestic support but it is already getting extra ammunition ("bunker busting bombs") flown in from the US via Britain which is just one example of its dependence on foreign relations to be able to continue the prosecution of this campaign.
Prosecution? You mean execution, right?

agree with your analysis but I think you should also note that Hezbollah have deliberately set them up to kill civilkians by hiding things under villages etc.

Can someone please prove this to me? I mean, it sounds like some pro-Israel media guy said this and now its the mantra to justify the senseless killing of women and children.

Can someone please prove this to me? I mean, it sounds like some pro-Israel media guy said this and now its the mantra to justify the senseless killing of women and children.
I read a piece just a couple of days ago--can't remember where--that was supposedly from some UN people claiming that Hezbillah was using them as shields. And it wouldn't surprise me either--tactically, it's a sound way to go about fighting a guerilla war. It's monstrous, but war itself is monstrous. If I were fighting a guerilla war against a militarily superior force, I'd do that and more without hesitation.

Prosecution? You mean execution, right?

No otherwise I would have said so

hezbollah is making this system work

No otherwise I would have said so
So you think the Israelis are prosecuting this campaign? *looks it up on Wiktionary*
Holy crap, a definition I didn't know. That doesn't happen very often...

Can someone please prove this to me? I mean, it sounds like some pro-Israel media guy said this and now its the mantra to justify the senseless killing of women and children.

There is an interview somewhere (He a asserts vaguely) by the deputy head of Hezbollah about how they have prepared for this for 6 years and describes preparations such as digging tunnels and creating underground bunkers.

I think if the Isarealis had the intel to prove this tactic was being used and show examples they would. Their cause gains nothing from the slaughter of civilians so if they had intel they would show it to prove they were after elgitimate targets.

If Mossad can't get hard info to prove this then I don't think anybody else has a chance of getting it!

There is an interview somewhere (He a asserts vaguely) by the deputy head of Hezbollah about how they have prepared for this for 6 years and describes preparations such as digging tunnels and creating underground bunkers.

I think if the Isarealis had the intel to prove this tactic was being used and show examples they would. Their cause gains nothing from the slaughter of civilians so if they had intel they would show it to prove they were after elgitimate targets.

If Mossad can't get hard info to prove this then I don't think anybody else has a chance of getting it!

Well they better, because it seems to me that these people will just say anything.

if you can equip ships with anti-missile systems like goalkeeper and phalanx why don't the Israelis set up these systems on their border posts to shoot down the rockets or do the rockets fly too high?


It's not that simple. Air defence systems like the Phalanx and it's successors work because they cut out one particular step in their interception phase. Normal air defence systems rely on a 3 step phase. Detection, identification and interception. Detection means they have a response on radar, identification means they run it through a friend or foe ID system, interception is when the guns start firing.

Most CIWS do away with identification cause it eats up time and reduces the window of opportunity to intercept. Remember, they were designed during the Cold War era where the mentality is that by the time the systems would be used, the missiles would be at extremely close range, and moving extremely fast, meaning that they have seconds to intercept before it's already hit or past your effective range.

Furthermore, since missiles are generally small fast moving objects, the radars in most CIWS are very sensitive to the smallest possible return, meaning that a moving metal ventilation fan could very well trigger a positive response, followed by a hail of bullets.

Having such systems in your borders and turning them on is a recipe for shooting down whatever air assets and passenger planes there are in the area followed by shooting up the local buildings and cars until they run out of ammo.

In short, it's a stupid idea.

Can someone please prove this to me? I mean, it sounds like some pro-Israel media guy said this and now its the mantra to justify the senseless killing of women and children.


The deaths of innocents in Lebanon are unfortunate tragedies, but they are also, sadly, necessary.

Jan Egeland, the United Nation's humanitarian chief, has frequently called out Hezbollah by denouncing them as cowardly, mainly because of their blending with civilian populations in Lebanon. Is it Israel's fault that Hezbollah chooses to involve innocents in their struggle?

Hezbollah chooses not to place their soldiers and operatives in uniforms for the purpose of being more stealth. They are involving the women and children who are being murdered in the region. They hide and attack in mosques and civilian structures so that they can lure the public into believeing that Israel is unprovoked in their bombings of these structures.

I believe that Israel's largest fear is the fear of Hezbollah's stealth. Because they cannot immediately distinguish between a Hezbollah soldier and a civilian, they will inevitably suffer massive amounts of casualties.

The deaths of innocents in Lebanon are unfortunate tragedies, but they are also, sadly, necessary.

Jan Egeland, the United Nation's humanitarian chief, has frequently called out Hezbollah by denouncing them as cowardly, mainly because of their blending with civilian populations in Lebanon. Is it Israel's fault that Hezbollah chooses to involved innocents in their struggle?

Hezbollah chooses not to place their soldiers and operatives in uniforms for the purpose of being more stealth. They are involving the women and children who are being murdered in the region. They hide and attack in mosques and civilian structures so that they can lure the public into believeing that Israel is unprovoked in their bombings of these structures.

I believe that Israel's largest fear is the fear of Hezbollah's stealth. Because they cannot immediately distinguish between a Hezbollah soldier and a civilian, they will inevitably suffer massive amounts of casualties.


how can somebody distinguish himself?
does it mean "suffer massive amounts of casualties"
strange logica

how can somebody distinguish himself?
does it mean "suffer massive amounts of casualties"
strange logica

Because Israel cannot immediately distinguish between a Hezbollah militant and an innocent civilian, they will be at a major disadvantage. Say an Israeli soldier spots a 'civilian' who seems suspicious. That same soldier will waste a few vital seconds distinguishing between a rocket launcher and, say, a duffle bag. Those few seconds that the Israeli soldier wasted trying to distinguish between a terrorist and a civilian could mean life or death.

The example is exaggerated but it stresses my point.

Because Israel cannot immediately distinguish between a Hezbollah militant and an innocent civilian, they will be at a major disadvantage. Say an Israeli soldier spots a 'civilian' who seems suspicious. That same soldier will waste a few vital seconds distinguishing between a rocket launcher and, say, a duffle bag. Those few seconds that the Israeli soldier wasted trying to distinguish between a terrorist and a civilian could mean life or death.

The example is exaggerated but it stresses my point.
i understand,the way i understand the black flag.
why is a perspective better than life?

I was listening today of reports that hezbollah actually restages rescues for the press ( the press cant always be around the bombs or they could actually die :rolleyes: )..including covering people with dust and debris and doing reenactments...and the press reports it as if its happening at that moment..:D If true its brilliant manipulation of the press and worthy of Goebbells himself ! ...Hmm gotta find a lnky...

So much for the " JEWS " owning the media theory BTW ...thats been shown to be pure horshit ..just by the TV coverage and commentary alone .


Hezbollah marketing inc ...jr jihadist for all your rebel needs Phone 1 800 bombsrus !

Brilliant unless they are exposed .

But just like all the bullshit that surrounded the Katrina reporting...it will be exposed after it matters not a wit nor will anyone care...it will be a new war or another disaster on the front burner .

The world has ADD .:rolleyes:

here's linkys...

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,,19955774-5007220,00.html

Photos that damn HezbollahChris Link

July 30, 2006 12:00am
Article from: Sunday Herald Sun

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n180/ORLYNOWAI/NOWAI.jpg

Guy holding gun - target.
Rocket launcher - target.
Guy operating heavy artillery, along with artillery - target.
Refugee camp with a bunch of children and no Hezbollah fighters - not so much.

http://www.littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=15399_From_the_Terrorists_Viewpoint

more linky linky..

Hezbollah could get RICH in NY or Hollywood .


CEDAR REVOLUTION
Ex-PM: Hezbollah rally
in Beirut a massive hoax
Exiled Lebanese leader says Syria
used foreigners, coerced workers

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: March 9, 2005
9:16 a.m. Eastern


By Aaron Klein
© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com

JERUSALEM – The giant Hezbollah rally that drew nearly half a million purported supporters of Syria's occupation of Lebanon included non-Lebanese citizens, Syrian workers, students and municipal employees coerced into joining the protest, former Lebanese Prime Minister Michel Aoun told WorldNetDaily in an exclusive interview this morning.


Hezbollah-led rally in Beirut yesterday (Photo: Al-Jazeerah)

"Yesterday's huge protest calling for Syria to stay made it look to the world like a large segment of the Lebanese population actually wants to live under Syrian occupation," said Aoun, speaking to WND from Paris. "But the protest wasn't what it appeared to be. It was an elaborately staged affair."



http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43213

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/21/AR2006072101363.html

This guy gets it .

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/26/AR2006072601714.html


hmmm seems I am not alone .

Guy holding gun - target.
Rocket launcher - target.
Guy operating heavy artillery, along with artillery - target.
Refugee camp with a bunch of children and no Hezbollah fighters in uniform using it as a base of operations- regrettably a a target.

Fixed

http://www.littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=15399_From_the_Terrorists_Viewpoint

more linky linky..

Hezbollah could get RICH in NY or Hollywood .




http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43213

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/21/AR2006072101363.html

This guy gets it .

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/26/AR2006072601714.html


hmmm seems I am not alone .
If you ever want to be considered anything other than a gullible tool, dont ever quote WorldNet Daily or Little Green Footballs for anything other than pure mockery. Those guys give hacks a bad name.

is it just me.. or the "no way" Marine-boy on the pic has a broken nose :confused:

Mmmmm, don't you just love it when the world swallows agitprop line by line.

http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2006/07/milking-it.html


But that's not all, we also get proof of why UN positions are being hit,

http://www.un.org/Depts/dpko/missions/unifil/pr012.pdf
There were two direct impacts on UNIFIL positions from the Israeli side in the past 24 hours. Eight artillery and mortar rounds impacted inside an Indian battalion position in the area of Hula, causing extensive material damage, but no casualties. One artillery round impacted the parameter wall of the UNIFIL Headquarters in Naqoura. There were five other incidents of firing close to UN positions from the Israeli side. It was also reported that Hezbollah fired from the vicinity of five UN positions at Alma Ash Shab, At Tiri, Bayt Yahoun, Brashit, and Tibnin.

All UNIFIL positions in the area of operation remain permanently occupied and maintained by the troops. UNIFIL dispatched three logistic convoys to resupply some positions yesterday. Additional convoys are planned for today, particularly to the forward positions in the eastern and central sectors which are facing critical shortages of basic supplies. The number of troops in some Ghanaian battalion positions is somewhat reduced because of the increased safety risk for the troops due to frequent incidents of Hezbollah firing from the vicinity of the positions, and shelling and bombardment close to the positions from the Israeli side.
Even though this idea has been denied by people on these forums.


As an aside, does anyone else think that it's completely fucking stupid to choose to go unarmed into a warzone or am I the only one?

And finally, fun with photographic proof that the hezzies are firing from civvie neighborhoods.

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,,19955774-5007220,00.html

Don't you just love the plainly identifiable hebollah uniforms?

Sometimes you win by losing. Eventually people will see the atrocities of Goliath and side with David.

No no no, even if you don't want to side with Israel. That is no excuse to side with hezbollah.

Sometimes you win by losing. Eventually people will see the atrocities of Goliath and side with David.

While I wouldn't call Hizbollah Goliath, I certainly hope people start siding with Israel for once.

Oh wait....your calling Israel the Goliath.

I guess we're going to have to rewrite the Torah(Old Testament) to call Goliath a great nation defending itself from Davids aggression for your comment to be accurate. =\

And also remove the part where David wins...and add him instead hiding behind his mother cowardly attacking.

Would make for a somewhat interesting read though. =)

Mmmmm, don't you just love it when the world swallows agitprop line by line.

http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2006/07/milking-it.html


But that's not all, we also get proof of why UN positions are being hit,

http://www.un.org/Depts/dpko/missions/unifil/pr012.pdf

Even though this idea has been denied by people on these forums.


As an aside, does anyone else think that it's completely fucking stupid to choose to go unarmed into a warzone or am I the only one?

And finally, fun with photographic proof that the hezzies are firing from civvie neighborhoods.

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,,19955774-5007220,00.html

Don't you just love the plainly identifiable hebollah uniforms?



BUT the press is running with it...so the world swallows like a French whore on extasy...no one said the press was playing to intelligent people .

Think American Idol as the target audience . Or any other dumb ass reality show....most get their news ...tisk tisk ..bite hook ...get reeled in and run with it as " truth ".

Why else would so much money be spent on adds for worthless shit that people buy anyway ?


how else do you explain all the Americans that think Saddam was involved in 9/11 and the French belief in socialism ?:D

But that's not all, we also get proof of why UN positions are being hit,

http://www.un.org/Depts/dpko/missions/unifil/pr012.pdf

Even though this idea has been denied by people on these forums.

Emm, just so you know, the UN base at Khiam was hit by the IAF/IDF. Not the ones listed. The ones listed received incoming fire from Hezb'allah. The base at Khiam did not, yet it was this base that was hit by the IAF/IDF.

Emm, just so you know, the UN base at Khiam was hit by the IAF/IDF. Not the ones listed. The ones listed received incoming fire from Hezb'allah. The base at Khiam did not, yet it was this base that was hit by the IAF/IDF.
Not according to the UN's own press release. Go argue with them.

Not according to the UN's own press release. Go argue with them.
No no. Read the report. I have. You have posted it above. Actually read it.

TGB, I want to let you know a little someting about your picture. I would , in fact, hit it.

Ultraextreme, you're completely deluding yourself if you think the American Idol audiance is watching any news at all. They watch American Idol instead of the news. In America the news is like e-mail in Korea, only used by old people.

No no. Read the report. I have. You have posted it above. Actually read it.
You mean read the part that says hezzie is firing FROM the UN vicinity, not AT it? There has been one hezzie on blue fire and that was from small-arms.

SHOCK AND WHAT? (http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/spiegel/0,1518,429358,00.html)
The Invisible Enemy (http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,429348,00.html)

To be honest, so far Hezbollah's winning tactically as well as propaganda-wise (http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,429348,00.html). They haven't really taken any meaningful hits at all so far, and they're in their element.

You mean read the part that says hezzie is firing FROM the UN vicinity, not AT it? There has been one hezzie on blue fire and that was from small-arms.
Yes, but not from Khiam- the base the IAF/IDF destroyed.
Jesus. :rolleyes:

While I wouldn't call Hizbollah Goliath, I certainly hope people start siding with Israel for once.

Oh wait....your calling Israel the Goliath.

I guess we're going to have to rewrite the Torah(Old Testament) to call Goliath a great nation defending itself from Davids aggression for your comment to be accurate. =\

And also remove the part where David wins...and add him instead hiding behind his mother cowardly attacking.

Would make for a somewhat interesting read though. =)

You know, Goliath and David is about relative size and power. Believing the morale of this tale to be "Israel Always Wins" is a complete failure to grasp the point and the symbolism.

David is a normal-sized shepherd, not a warrior. Goliath is this huge giant who eats people for breakfast. The point of the story is that if the giant is too full of himself to be careful, he can be defeated.

--

Enter the analogy of Israel and the Hizbollah.

Israel is a nuclear power. It has the most efficient and ruthless intelligence service this side of the KGB. It considers brute force to be the ultimate solution to anything - they stand with a sledgehammer in a world of nails. They give not a wet rat's tail about what the international community says.

And now try to compare the Hizbollah to Goliath.

Can someone please prove this to me? I mean, it sounds like some pro-Israel media guy said this and now its the mantra to justify the senseless killing of women and children.

I don't think Jan Egeland is especially pro-Israel yet he has been saying much the same thing for quite some time now. Specifically that Hezbollah are systematically and intentionally using illegal tactics of hiding amongst civilians on one side whilst firing upon civilians on the other side.

--
Nic

I read a piece just a couple of days ago--can't remember where--that was supposedly from some UN people claiming that Hezbillah was using them as shields. And it wouldn't surprise me either--tactically, it's a sound way to go about fighting a guerilla war. It's monstrous, but war itself is monstrous. If I were fighting a guerilla war against a militarily superior force, I'd do that and more without hesitation.

The laws governing war exist precisely to make it less monstrous. Those who believe they have a right to flout the laws in pursuit of victory at all costs are monsters.

---
Nic

You know, Goliath and David is about relative size and power. Believing the morale of this tale to be "Israel Always Wins" is a complete failure to grasp the point and the symbolism.

David is a normal-sized shepherd, not a warrior. Goliath is this huge giant who eats people for breakfast. The point of the story is that if the giant is too full of himself to be careful, he can be defeated.

--

Enter the analogy of Israel and the Hizbollah.

Israel is a nuclear power. It has the most efficient and ruthless intelligence service this side of the KGB. It considers brute force to be the ultimate solution to anything - they stand with a sledgehammer in a world of nails. They give not a wet rat's tail about what the international community says.the Jewish KGB is ruthless, efficient and Criminal.

the Jewish KGB is ruthless, efficient and Criminal.


Technically speaking, almost all national intelligence services are criminal by their nature. Information gathering, espionage, assassination, etc, etc, most of these acts that are illegal in the area where they operate in, say for example stealing state secrets.

So calling it criminal is rather like saying water is wet.

almost all national intelligence services are criminal.point taken. (your have a point)

Why is the world so afraid to denounce terror?

is it just me.. or the "no way" Marine-boy on the pic has a broken nose :confused:

ROFL. Cracky-Chan does crack... And is female.

if you can equip ships with anti-missile systems like goalkeeper and phalanx why don't the Israelis set up these systems on their border posts to shoot down the rockets or do the rockets fly too high?

agree with your analysis but I think you should also note that Hezbollah have deliberately set them up to kill civilkians by hiding things under villages etc.
They don't fly high or far enough. Katyusha rockets are in the air for only a few minutes. Not long enough to shoot 'em down with Patriot or Arrow anti-missile systems.

There is an interview somewhere (He a asserts vaguely) by the deputy head of Hezbollah about how they have prepared for this for 6 years and describes preparations such as digging tunnels and creating underground bunkers.

I think if the Isarealis had the intel to prove this tactic was being used and show examples they would. Their cause gains nothing from the slaughter of civilians so if they had intel they would show it to prove they were after elgitimate targets.

If Mossad can't get hard info to prove this then I don't think anybody else has a chance of getting it!
CNN showed video from cameras on IDF drones and aircraft of rockets being launched from behind apartment complexes and homes.