NationStates Jolt Archive

UNITED NATIONS - The U.N. Security Council approved a statement Sunday expressing "extreme shock and distress" over Israel's bombing of civilians in Qana, Lebanon but stopped short of condemning the attack.

An Israeli airstrike early Sunday on a three-story building in the south Lebanese village of Qana killed 56 people, almost all of them women and children, according to Red Cross officials and Lebanese police.

Source: yahoo/ OcceanNEWS©2006
my2cents: LOL at the pathetic UN security council.

It's hard to condemn the attack when the Israelis have UAV videos showingn rockets being launched from the roof of the building. THat makes the building a military target.

my2cents: another pointless thread from OcceanDrive.

It's hard to condemn the attack when the Israelis have UAV videos showingn rockets being launched from the roof of the building. THat makes the building a military target..how do you know it was "that" building?

LOL
And thats when the thread dies...

how do you know it was "that" building?The IDF had the UAV provide recon coverage. The video quite obviously shows the rockets being launched from the roof. An Israeli jet was then vectored towards the building. I do trust Israel here. They are an open society. If they lied about this one, it would be revealed by the anti-war segment of the population (yes it's a true free democracy so one does exist.)


http://youtube.com/watch?v=HWO5oU5LHFI&search=qana%20rockets

Israel later confirmed this was the building.

If they lied about this one, it would be revealed by the anti-war segment of the population (yes it's a true free democracy so one does exist.).the antiwar segments of Israel.. all 12 of them?
:D :D ;) :D

the antiwar segments of Israel.. all 12 of them?
:D :D ;) :D
It's larger than you would think. You know nothing about the Middle East. Every post you have made on this board has proven my conclusion about your knowledge on that particular region of the world. Israel has a vibrant peace movement. To deny that fact is to lie (something you seem to be quite good at.)

In all honesty, I feel sorry for those who died. The civilians who died didn't deserve it, but the blood isn't on Israel's hands here. It is on Hezbollah's. The reason there are so many civilian casualties is that Hezbollah has been using them as human shields. I would like to see those condeming Israel for the deaths actually do something honest and condemn Hezbollah, who is truly responsible for them being in harm's way.

Israel has a vibrant peace movement.
really?
they must be very vibrant indeed.. so vibrant.. Israel is famous all over the world for its pacifism.

:D :D ;) :D

really?
they must be very vibrant indeed.. so vibrant.. Israel is famous all over the world for its pacifism.

:D :D ;) :D
Even someone as uninformed as you should realize that Israel is really known for showing restraint. Israel's actions are far from opening a can of whoop ass. If Israel really wanted to do so, they could've wiped out Lebanon by now. When only a few dozen airstrikes are being launched by an AF that has about 800 combat aircraft, you can see there is restraint.

really?
they must be very vibrant indeed.. so vibrant.. Israel is famous all over the world for its pacifism.

:D :D ;) :D
If you knew anything about Middle Eastern politics, you would know that Barak and Labor were elected in 1999 because of their platform of peace. Barak almost succeeded. It wasn't his fault that Arafat had no true intentions of being a peace partner.

What the heck is with the civilians (there and in other hot spots), that they'd stay in a building people were launching rockets from?

I know I'd find somewhere else to stay in a hurry, if I knew that rockets were being sent off my roof or from my neighborhood! That I have "no place to go" would be irrelevant. Even an open field (or sand bank) is an improvement over a building someone's practically painted a target on.

Fergi America']What the heck is with the civilians (there and in other hot spots), that they'd stay in a building people were launching rockets from?

I know I'd find somewhere else to stay in a hurry, if I knew that rockets were being sent off my roof or from my neighborhood! That I have "no place to go" would be irrelevant. Even an open field (or sand bank) is an improvement over a building someone's practically painted a target on.
There have been reports that in some cases Hezbollah hasn't allowed civilians to leave. It is tragic.:(

how do you know it was "that" building?


Geez man, the Izzys use the very best of their own home grown UAVs and the best American made stuff. It's not too hard. GPS co-ords.

Geez man, the Izzys use the very best of their own home grown UAVs and the best American made stuff. It's not too hard. GPS co-ords.
The Israelis actually developed the UAV. The first American ones were ones purchased from Israel.

Even someone as uninformed as you should realize that Israel is really known for showing restraint. Israel's actions are far from opening a can of whoop ass. If Israel really wanted to do so, they could've wiped out Lebanon by now. When only a few dozen airstrikes are being launched by an AF that has about 800 combat aircraft, you can see there is restraint.
No kidding, if Isreal DIDNT want to show restraint, the entire Middle East would be one country :P

The IDF had the UAV provide recon coverage. The video quite obviously shows the rockets being launched from the roof. An Israeli jet was then vectored towards the building. I do trust Israel here. They are an open society. If they lied about this one, it would be revealed by the anti-war segment of the population (yes it's a true free democracy so one does exist.)


http://youtube.com/watch?v=HWO5oU5LHFI&search=qana%20rockets

Israel later confirmed this was the building.

Bull. The official IDF response (http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/30/mideast.main/index.html) was that they were targetting a Hezbolla position nearby to the building, not on top of it. They also have NOT officially released tape of that target but rather one they stated was similar.


But hey, if YouTube is now a viable news source.... then let me point you to some equally "real" footage contained therin.

Bull. The official IDF response (http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/30/mideast.main/index.html) was that they were targetting a Hezbolla position nearby to the building, not on top of it. They also have NOT officially released tape of that target but rather one they stated was similar.


But hey, if YouTube is now a viable news source.... then let me point you to some equally "real" footage contained therin.
Viable news sources have reported and shown the video on TV. IT is just that someone with a DVR built into their computer put the video that has been running on TV all day on youtube.

Israeli reconnaisance assets, including counter-battery RADARs, which pinpoint the exact spot an incoming round originated from were used in order to determine this building was the launching spot. Even the UN has said that Hezbollah is using civilians buildings to fire from.

Its not news that Hezbollah is using civilian casualties as another weapon , only its a political weapon...they are hurting and in need of resupply , they NEED a break to rearm and reorganize..the more pressure put on Israel and the more Lebanese civilians killed live on TV ..the better for Hezbollah .

Israel knows this and yet they are playing into Hezbollahs hands.
They made a decision to try to eliminate an insurgent / terrorist group using air power...its never been done..air power is a blunt instrument..you need boots on the ground to identify targets . Saving a hundred Israeli soldiers may cost a thousand Israeli civilian casualties and more Lebanese civilians .

Its dumb . war on the cheap . Do it right or cease to do it at all .

The only rule is to win...right now Israel is giving it to Hezbollah .

The Israelis actually developed the UAV. The first American ones were ones purchased from Israel.

And we refined it, and sent it back.

Ironic, considering the Izzys use American M16s despite having built a number of their own home grown designs. Even with the Direct gas impingement design.

The IDF had the UAV provide recon coverage. The video quite obviously shows the rockets being launched from the roof. An Israeli jet was then vectored towards the building. I do trust Israel here. They are an open society. If they lied about this one, it would be revealed by the anti-war segment of the population (yes it's a true free democracy so one does exist.)


http://youtube.com/watch?v=HWO5oU5LHFI&search=qana%20rockets

Israel later confirmed this was the building.

If true then it looks like it was a legit military target for the IDF to hit unfortunately. :(

Once again, we get to block resolutions whenever we damn well please. We have a veto, just like the Brits, French, Russians and PRC. If they want to condemn Israel, do it through the General Assembly like they always do. Of course a body primarily composed of ruthless dictatorships does tend to have credibility issues when condemning a democracy. You never know.

It was a totally stupid target to hit REGUARDLESS of the fact it was right to hit it because of the history of that place...ten years ago Israel killed 150 plus in a UN run camp for almost the same reason....DUMB...dumb...dumb ..

politics and propaganda are weapons in war ...Israel is being taken to school by Hezbollah .

Once again, we get to block resolutions whenever we damn well please. We have a veto, just like the Brits, French, Russians and PRC. If they want to condemn Israel, do it through the General Assembly like they always do. Of course a body primarily composed of ruthless dictatorships does tend to have credibility issues when condemning a democracy. You never know.

Anything passed by the General Assembly is a non-binding resolution so it really does not matter what the General Assembly says on the issue.

Anything passed by the General Assembly is a non-binding resolution so it really does not matter what the General Assembly says on the issue.
I know, that's part of the beauty.

The General Assembly spends excessive amount of time condemning Israel for whatever it feels like.

Viable news sources have reported and shown the video on TV. IT is just that someone with a DVR built into their computer put the video that has been running on TV all day on youtube.

Israeli reconnaisance assets, including counter-battery RADARs, which pinpoint the exact spot an incoming round originated from were used in order to determine this building was the launching spot. Even the UN has said that Hezbollah is using civilians buildings to fire from.

So naturally pointing to one of these reputable sources stating that Israeli video shows a rooftop launch from that building instead of your youtube source should be no problem.......

Please provide one.

I wonder what people would be saying if the situation was reversed and various Muslim countries were invading Israel.
Oh yeah, that already happened!
And of course the UN, being the brave and upstanding organization that it is, promptly cut Israel off as it was winning and ordered it to give back most of what it had won, despite Egypt breaking its own share of UN resolutions passed by the security council. Of course, those dastardly Jews took advantage of this and pushed the Egyptians further back and encircled an army and all that, but we all know the Arabs would have won in the end, because theres no way Israel could stand up to the ENTIRE middle east.
Oh yeah, it already had!

'Scuse my rant, I just find it silly that people cast Israel as a horrible, evil country all the time when its surrounded by the likes of Saudi Arabia and Iraq.

I wonder what people would be saying if the situation was reversed and various Muslim countries were invading Israel.
Oh yeah, that already happened!
And of course the UN, being the brave and upstanding organization that it is, promptly cut Israel off as it was winning and ordered it to give back most of what it had won, despite Egypt breaking its own share of UN resolutions passed by the security council. Of course, those dastardly Jews took advantage of this and pushed the Egyptians further back and encircled an army and all that, but we all know the Arabs would have won in the end, because theres no way Israel could stand up to the ENTIRE middle east.
Oh yeah, it already had!

'Scuse my rant, I just find it silly that people cast Israel as a horrible, evil country all the time when its surrounded by the likes of Saudi Arabia and Iraq.


A) The fact that other asshats exist does not excuse Israel's transgressions. Try to stick to the actual subject at hand rather than engage in a poo-flinging extravaganza not witnessed since the Chimps at the Brooklyn Zoo got into a 20-pound bag of licorice.

B) You might want to point out that the initial borders of Isreal were drawn by the UN in the middle of someone elses country. Whining then that they requested that Israel stick to those borders seems ..... odd.

C) Try updating your rant to current history. For example, note that if Iraq is evil then it is so under the direct supervision of the US of A.

A) The fact that other asshats exist does not excuse Israel's transgressions. Try to stick to the actual subject at hand rather than engage in a poo-flinging extravaganza not witnessed since the Chimps at the Brooklyn Zoo got into a 20-pound bag of licorice.

B) You might want to point out that the initial borders of Isreal were drawn by the UN in the middle of someone elses country. Whining then that they requested that Israel stick to those borders seems ..... odd.

C) Try updating your rant to current history. For example, note that if Iraq is evil then it is so under the direct supervision of the US of A.

a. I was pointing out that the UN spends a lot of time condeming Israel, while ignoring (or at least, not condeming as much), other Middle Eastern countries acts. If the Israeli government kills a Palestenian, the UN condems it, meanwhile Saudi Arabia is still beheading thieves.

B. Most peoples borders were drawn in the middle of somebody elses country, its a fine tradition dating back to, oh, I dont know, the Assyrians. I seem to recall most of the Middle East being the Ottoman Empire, up until the British came in and said, "Gosh, this is a good place for a line."

c. Most people on the forum seem to think it is. I felt that it would function as a detterrent to the "But Syria ISNT evil, its a land of loving people who smoke Hasish! Nobody who smokes Hashish is BAD!" type of arguement. I also thought it would confuse people to see somebody defending Israel and attacking US-administrated Iraq :)

And we refined it, and sent it back.

Ironic, considering the Izzys use American M16s despite having built a number of their own home grown designs. Even with the Direct gas impingement design.
The Stoner rifle system is quite probably the best one to use if you are firing the 5.56. Of course, when you go to larger calibers it fouls up waaayyy too quickly. But for the round it uses it's extremely good.

If true then it looks like it was a legit military target for the IDF to hit unfortunately. :(
Even though the IDF said this:

Israeli officials said the airstrike was an accident and that its forces intended to target a nearby Hezbollah position. Military officials said an investigation was under way.
http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/30/mideast.main/index.html
I mean, even the IDF said they hit the wrong thing, and that alone shows it clearly wasn't a 'legit target'.

As for that video, considering there are no markings, time frames, labels or features crediting it as being the house destroyed in Cana/Qana it really isn't credible. It could be of any place in Lebanon. It could be Tyre, or Beirut for all we know.

As for the situation at the moment, given Hezb'allah are still firing rockets and refused to implement their own 48hr ceasefire and the IDF hitting civilians/non-Hezb'allah with increasing and worrying regularity: they deserve each other. They're both as bad as each other and I hope they do humanity a favour and wipe each other out.

I did say if it was true I thought.

I wonder what people would be saying if the situation was reversed and various Muslim countries were invading Israel.
I would ask my Gov.. to demand (UN resolution) an inmediate cease fire.. so we can send planes and ships to evacuate all civileans(not just the ones with a EU/US passport)

..and I would expect my Gov not to charge the refugees for helping them.

Why the only defense israeli supporters have around here is that it is not their fault, but Hezbollah's fault?

I condemn Hezbollah, I think they should be disarmed and disbanded, and then captured and get a trial, hoping to have them spend the rest of their life in jail. But that do not remove the guilt on your shoulders. That building wasn't a military target, and to bomb those civilians was wrong. What if your two soldiers were held in that building, for example? After all, this began with you, the IDF, looking for a pair of missing soldiers, no? Why you people have to approve every action made by your army and your goverment?, they can be wrong, awfully wrong sometimes. Such kind of approval only shows a lack of personal judgment and a weakened mind.

Even though the IDF said this:


http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/30/mideast.main/index.html
I mean, even the IDF said they hit the wrong thing, and that alone shows it clearly wasn't a 'legit target'.

As for that video, considering there are no markings, time frames, labels or features crediting it as being the house destroyed in Cana/Qana it really isn't credible. It could be of any place in Lebanon. It could be Tyre, or Beirut for all we know.

As for the situation at the moment, given Hezb'allah are still firing rockets and refused to implement their own 48hr ceasefire and the IDF hitting civilians/non-Hezb'allah with increasing and worrying regularity: they deserve each other. They're both as bad as each other and I hope they do humanity a favour and wipe each other out.


Hezbollah may be losing the war tacticaly...but they are winning the war in strategic and political terms ...so why should they stop ?

Israel in an effort to keep their military casualties low ...decides not to do the proper thing and invade with combined arms ..identify the CORRECT targets and destroy Hezbollah militarily..they seem to be unwilling to shed the blood needed to do this .

VICTORY FOR HEZBOLLAH and if you are an Arab ...a HUGE boost in prestige for hezbollah ...they have the " mighty " israelis scared .

Israel despite the fact that it has NEVER in history been accomplished attempts to fight a war against a terrorist / insurgent type group ..using air power and stand off munitions like artilery ...thus causing collaterall damage in an age when every toddler has a video camera and the news is 24 seven..
Thus pictures of destroyed Lebenese buildings and crying momma's and children along with wailing men permiate the news ...completely overwhelming the Israeli pictures showing the same thing and the facts of the war...those being that Israel is one hundred percent justified...who cares...dead babies trump rights . not to mention attacking a town and place with huge significance from 1996 ( 160 civilians killed in a UN compound ) this time killing 50 or so ..like some attacking the site of the twin towers in Lebanese minds ...a huge fucking stupid and strange ...DUMB dumb dumb,,error by the Israelis..

HUGE Victory for Hezbollah that brings twice as much pressure on Israel and even pressure from the US ..as dumb as they are in diplomacy even they recognise the huge error in judgement and the consequences of the Israeli action .

DESPITE bombing the shit out of the infastructure yesterday was a huge increase in rockets and missile fired into Israel..seems Israel intel is a bit weak...a very dangerouse situation for a tiny country surrounded by enemies .

VICTORY Hezbollah ..again showing the rest of the Arab world what " lions " in the face of death they are ..IMO ..a better tool for recruitment than a million dead babies .


So here we have a country ..Israel..that started out with all the moral and legal justification in the world needed to wage a war against Hezbollah..
And they fucked it up so bad people are against them and for terrorist .

Now if thats not a HUGE victory ...so far ..for hezbollah I do not know what is ..

Israel better get on the ball...it seems they expect international forces to shed blood to do the job they are unwilling to do ..

Hey Israel ...fuck you..go in and carve out hezbollah..then talk about sending in troops ...its YOUR fucking job to defend your country .
I cant see any other strategy by the Israeli's except ..keep our casualties low and force the world to deal with Hezbollah...like hezbollah wont fire on international troops ? Kiss my ass bitch..grow some balls and go in and get them YOURSELVES...you are running out of time .

I would ask my Gov.. to demand (UN resolution) an inmediate cease fire.. so we can send planes and ships to evacuate all civileans(not just the ones with a EU/US passport)

There is a 48 Hour aerial cease-fire to allow for such evacuations to occur.

..and I would expect my Gov not to charge the refugees for helping them.

Which government would that be? I know the United States isn't charging to evacuate their citizens.

There is a 48 Hour aerial cease-fire to allow for such evacuations to occur.



Which government would that be? I know the United States isn't charging to evacuate their citizens.you missed.. multiple targets..

I encourage you to re-read my full post.. and the Quoted part too.

Which government would that be? I know the United States isn't charging to evacuate their citizens.#1 any gov with the ressources..

#2 the US gov was imposing "money back" papers on the refugees.

#1 any gov with the ressources..

#2 the US gov was imposing "money back" papers on the refugees.
And they are not doing so anymore. It's what happens when a bureaucratic system kicks in. Stuff happens according to plan, even though it is undesirable, in this case, the money back papers. When it is found out, they are revoked.

#1 any gov with the ressources..

#2 the US gov was imposing "money back" papers on the refugees.
#2 was true because of a 2003 act passed by both parties (including your beloved Demorcrats.)

And they are not doing so anymore. It's what happens when a bureaucratic system kicks in. Stuff happens according to plan, even though it is undesirable, in this case, the money back papers. When it is found out, they are revoked.I know.. yet its the only Gov that did ask money at one point or another.. AFAIK

#2 was true because of a 2003 act passed by both parties (including your beloved Demorcrats.)a lot of turd was passed-by-both-parties..
do you think that (if is passed-by-both-parties) it automaticaly makes it rigth??

I know.. yet its the only Gov that did ask money at one point or another.. AFAIK
And you can thank Nancy Pelosi and the rest of COngress for that.

And you can thank Nancy Pelosi and the rest of COngress for that.


And they quickly waived the requirement...a non story .

really?
they must be very vibrant indeed.. so vibrant.. Israel is famous all over the world for its pacifism.

:D :D ;) :D
You know, Israel hasn't even hurled everything it's got at this.
If it did, well, there'd be a LOT of dead civillians. A lot more.

And you can thank Nancy Pelosi and the rest of COngress for that.Nancy Pelosi needs to leak my eye-Balls. :D

the rest of COngress can take a number :cool: :D

Nancy Pelosi needs to leak my eye-Balls. :D

the rest of COngress can take a number :cool: :D
Color="LemonChiffon"

That is truly awesome!

Color="LemonChiffon"

That is truly awesome!thanks.

when I take the time to even chooce the color.. you just know I am on "relaxed-mode" :D

In all honesty, I feel sorry for those who died. The civilians who died didn't deserve it, but the blood isn't on Israel's hands here. It is on Hezbollah's. The reason there are so many civilian casualties is that Hezbollah has been using them as human shields. I would like to see those condeming Israel for the deaths actually do something honest and condemn Hezbollah, who is truly responsible for them being in harm's way.
I condemn Hezbollah, and for far more than just this one incident.

Its not news that Hezbollah is using civilian casualties as another weapon , only its a political weapon...they are hurting and in need of resupply , they NEED a break to rearm and reorganize..the more pressure put on Israel and the more Lebanese civilians killed live on TV ..the better for Hezbollah .

Israel knows this and yet they are playing into Hezbollahs hands.
They made a decision to try to eliminate an insurgent / terrorist group using air power...its never been done..air power is a blunt instrument..you need boots on the ground to identify targets . Saving a hundred Israeli soldiers may cost a thousand Israeli civilian casualties and more Lebanese civilians .

Its dumb . war on the cheap . Do it right or cease to do it at all .

The only rule is to win...right now Israel is giving it to Hezbollah .
Then what ... do ... you ... suggest ... they ... do, oh wise one?

... if Iraq is evil then it is so under the direct supervision of the US of A.
Hmmm. Aren't you one of those who were ranting about America being unable to "win" in Iraq because it could never hope to overcome the insurgents there? Strange, that.

They're both as bad as each other and I hope they do humanity a favour and wipe each other out.
How very ... noble of you. :rolleyes:

..and I would expect my Gov not to charge the refugees for helping them.
Straw man. No one was charged.

Straw man. No one was charged.We charged them.. and when EU media started talking about it (yes.. the international media broke the news first).. we changed our minds.

How very ... noble of you. :rolleyes:

As noble as both parties involved in this conflict.

Well, the UN is pathetic.

Here's a good example:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/31/iran.nuclear.ap/index.html

Notice who is blocking here? Russia and China.

Oh, it's such a great idea to allow a state that armed Hezbollah to develop nuclear weapons in order to wipe Israel off the map.

Wow. As soon as they have nukes, how long do you give before they send one to Hezbollah?

And all the UN can muster is an official letter saying just how angry they are about it...

Anyone else starting to think Occeandrive is Mel Gibson?

Anyone else starting to think Occeandrive is Mel Gibson?
Yes, he is.

I've spent the past year quoting OceanDrive as soon as the truly virulent anti-Jew stuff comes out (I'm not talking about political debate, or comments such as "Israel has gone over the line, etc...".

We're talking drunken Mel Gibson sounding stuff, that Ocean goes back within a few minutes and changes - but not before I've hit the QUOTE button.

Preserving his hatred for all time.

The IDF had the UAV provide recon coverage. The video quite obviously shows the rockets being launched from the roof. An Israeli jet was then vectored towards the building. I do trust Israel here. They are an open society. If they lied about this one, it would be revealed by the anti-war segment of the population (yes it's a true free democracy so one does exist.)


http://youtube.com/watch?v=HWO5oU5LHFI&search=qana%20rockets

Israel later confirmed this was the building.

it shows rockets coming from behind a building.

Im always sceptical of military leaks to try and defend cold blooded murder

it shows rockets coming from behind a building.

Im always sceptical of military leaks to try and defend cold blooded murder

But you're never skeptical of any explanation by Hezbollah.

I guess you believe that the Israelis go out of their way to find groups of children with a newfangled "kiddie sensor" from Jackson Enterprises, instead of using video of rockets firing to determine which places to bomb.

Anyone else starting to think Occeandrive is Mel Gibson?Yes, he is.
well.. No

My fee is 30million per movie..
cos I have more mojo.. and they say I am better looking too ... so there. :D