NationStates Jolt Archive

Since someone is going to put it in a Bushevik "You're Either With Us or Against Us" regarding the mess in the Middle East, I propose what I expect is a reasonable medium.

I support Israel's right to exist as a country, but not its habit of exercising the Uncle Jimbo Doctrine to blow the shit out of anything and anyone they feel like by calling it "Self Defense" and "Accidental."

Hey hey heeeeyyy...
Nice to see an attempt at starting a thread without turning the issue into an Us/Them binary.:)

I am undecided on the specifics of this current ugliness.

I have always deplored the use of antisemitism/essentially Nazi theory of "Jewish Threat", by rich Middle Eastern power-brokers against Israel.

Done largely, it should be remembered, at the expense of the Muslim people and cultures they wish to supposedly exalt/preserve.

However, I have always been sickened by the realpolitik Israeli stance of taking the enemy's methods as their own...such as using domestically-based police forces (Shin Bet, et cetera) to subject their fellow residents to cruelty and degradation, simply because these fellow residents of the area are RELATED to individuals who might attack Israel.

I.e., they are Muslim, and feel encroached upon (that being the "relation")

Israeli Apartheid is something that always made me shudder; it is not "terrorism", only because it is allowed by the state. But in every other respect, it is terrorism. The use of repression, humiliation, shock, and the threat of unavoidable violence to control a political arena. Wretched.

Not that the Wahabbist masterminds are any different. Or less culpable.

Since someone is going to put it in a Bushevik "You're Either With Us or Against Us" regarding the mess in the Middle East, I propose what I expect is a reasonable medium.

I support Israel's right to exist as a country, but not its habit of exercising the Uncle Jimbo Doctrine to blow the shit out of anything and anyone they feel like by calling it "Self Defense" and "Accidental."
Sign me up.

Since someone is going to put it in a Bushevik "You're Either With Us or Against Us" regarding the mess in the Middle East, I propose what I expect is a reasonable medium.

I support Israel's right to exist as a country, but not its habit of exercising the Uncle Jimbo Doctrine to blow the shit out of anything and anyone they feel like by calling it "Self Defense" and "Accidental."Israel has a right to exist. It has a right to defend its citizens. It does not have the right to overreact.

And thank goodness you didn't ask for sigging anything :p

Since someone is going to put it in a Bushevik "You're Either With Us or Against Us" regarding the mess in the Middle East, I propose what I expect is a reasonable medium.

I support Israel's right to exist as a country, but not its habit of exercising the Uncle Jimbo Doctrine to blow the shit out of anything and anyone they feel like by calling it "Self Defense" and "Accidental."
Agreed. Now THIS I can put in my sig without conducting abuse on it. Though I do like the phrase "Jew Crew", I support Jews, not the target-bombing of civilians which only causes more people to hate Jews needlessly. On the other hand, Israel provides a sensible, secular law system in the Middle East (like legalizing same-sex marriage while other ME nations usually have the death penalty for homosexuality) and also has many Arab and Muslim Bedouin units in the IDF.

Put me down as a charter member.

Sounds good to me.

I'm in- I'm all for Israel's existence, but I don't think 'right to exist' stretches this far under any definition.

I'm in as well. I'm no fan of Hezbollah, but the way Israel has gone about this has been nothing short of Bush quality.

fully agreed OP

the US or THEM mentality is quite the annoyance indeed -

"wah wah - oh you dont approve of what Israel is doing so you must hate the Jews and wish Israel to cease to exist - wah wah"

I will voice my support for the principle.

Hear, hear!

Since someone is going to put it in a Bushevik "You're Either With Us or Against Us" regarding the mess in the Middle East, I propose what I expect is a reasonable medium.

I support Israel's right to exist as a country, but not its habit of exercising the Uncle Jimbo Doctrine to blow the shit out of anything and anyone they feel like by calling it "Self Defense" and "Accidental."


Oh my god!

Iran is coming right for us!!!

*bang*

"wah wah - oh you dont approve of what Israel is doing so you must hate the Jews and wish Israel to cease to exist - wah wah"

Well in reality its in another sequence: you read the Tanaach and find it unimaginably brain-dead . Then you despise those who adhere to this crap. Then you hate those who pretend to be a people and create territorial claims based on this crap. Then you hate those who made a state out of the claims and who force their living in the land of another, real people. What Israel is doing is based on the wrong assumption that non-Palestinian Jews had any rights to a land that their (alleged) ancestors turned their backs on well over 1800 years ago.

That's what I've been saying for years.

I'm in as well. I'm no fan of Hezbollah, but the way Israel has gone about this has been nothing short of Bush quality.
Agreed

Since someone is going to put it in a Bushevik "You're Either With Us or Against Us" regarding the mess in the Middle East, I propose what I expect is a reasonable medium.

It's more of a case of "has" than "is".

I support Israel's right to exist as a country, but not its habit of exercising the Uncle Jimbo Doctrine to blow the shit out of anything and anyone they feel like by calling it "Self Defense" and "Accidental."

Doesn't exactly do much to encourage Israel's neighbours to stop terrorists who do the same thing to Israel, does it?

My position exactly. I support the right to exist of the State of Israel, and their right to rightfully defend the lives of the israeli citizens. I also hope that groups like Hezbollah can be disbanded, disarmed, and their leaders meet the justice they deserve.

But I do not condone the current actions taken by the goverment of Israel, or the operations of their armed forces. Their tactics are flawed at least, and perverse at last.

I support Israels right to exist thou I'm getting less supportive as the days go on. If Iran did what Israel are doing now we'd be headed towards WWIII.

I support the Jews' right to live whereever they want, but I completely oppose an exclusive Jewish state. In fact, isnt it fundamentally against Judaism to reclaim the holy land? Isnt one of the main things about being Jewish is that you are in exile?

I support the right for Jews to live in Palestine without fear of persecution, but I don't support the existence of the State of Israel.

I believe that Israel has the right to exist without fear of terrorist attacks. However, if they really want to attack Hezbollah or other terrorist groups, wouldn't it be better to use surgical, precise strikes instead of blowing the shit out of everything they see? Also, "They're either with us or against us" is not a correct statement. There is such a thing as neutrality.

Since someone is going to put it in a Bushevik "You're Either With Us or Against Us" regarding the mess in the Middle East, I propose what I expect is a reasonable medium.

I support Israel's right to exist as a country, but not its habit of exercising the Uncle Jimbo Doctrine to blow the shit out of anything and anyone they feel like by calling it "Self Defense" and "Accidental."

Indeed, not forgetting the evil of the occupation and all that. A fine motion, Sir, I'm with you.

In as much as any state has a right to exist, so too does Israel. However, it is not fair to grant Israel this right and not do likewise for the Palestinians. Both groups are social unions and have the exact same right to self definition.

Ideally, nobody would care about nations. The notion of a Country as a self-defined populace on a specific piece of land is unsound, and there must be a better way of organising the world than that. When push came to shove, I would argue that no state ultimately has itself any innate right to exist as a nation over any particular bit of land. Only at the personal level are rights maintained, and the rights of a nation are only those of its populace.

Since we're stuck with it, the Israelis can use it if they wish, but they should not deny Palestine's right to exist themselves, and their approach to the people of the middle east is not excusable by tribal politics or messy history. That's not to say anyone else is any better. But, then again, I don't support their behaviour or policies either.

I support the right of all people to live in peace wherever they choose to. I do NOT support the ultranationalistic attitudes so often present in governments with strong religious ties like Israel, Syria, Iran etc. Though the middle-east seems to be inundatd in such fanatics, I oppose religion in government on all fronts. Nothing good ever comes from combining god with guns.

Well in reality its in another sequence: you read the Tanaach and find it unimaginably brain-dead . Then you despise those who adhere to this crap. Then you hate those who pretend to be a people and create territorial claims based on this crap. Then you hate those who made a state out of the claims and who force their living in the land of another, real people. What Israel is doing is based on the wrong assumption that non-Palestinian Jews had any rights to a land that their (alleged) ancestors turned their backs on well over 1800 years ago.

Even if Britian/US/WHomever had no right to just take the land in Palestine and give it to the Jews, they did it (ever hear about how Christians wanted to recreate the state of Israel so as to facilitate the end of days? I think it's a very interesting theory personally) so now we need to live it and try to find a way to get past the hatred/violence caused by it.

I don't hate the Jews for taking land that they were given by world leaders(supposedly Palestine wasn't a legal territory and Palestinians were just nomads with no legal claim to anything in the eyes of the western world), I am upset at those who decided to put the Jews where they did, as it was an unbelievable incompetent (or brilliant if they wanted endless strife) move.

Even if Britian/US/WHomever had no right to just take the land in Palestine and give it to the Jews, they did it (ever hear about how Christians wanted to recreate the state of Israel so as to facilitate the end of days? I think it's a very interesting theory personally) so now we need to live it and try to find a way to get past the hatred/violence caused by it.

I don't hate the Jews for taking land that they were given by world leaders(supposedly Palestine wasn't a legal territory and Palestinians were just nomads with no legal claim to anything in the eyes of the western world), I am upset at those who decided to put the Jews where they did, as it was an unbelievable incompetent (or brilliant if they wanted endless strife) move.

The United Nations as an international organization passed a resolution which created the Jewish state of Israel. And when they were created, they merely created the state and implemented Jewish ways. They never evicted Palestinians from their homes; a huge portion of Israel today is composed of Arabs.

But, Palestinians were justifiably angry, thus causing tension among Arabs and Jews, and it has escalated to this.

I support the right for Jews to live in Palestine without fear of persecution, but I don't support the existence of the State of Israel.

I agree with this. Israel should not exist. According to Talmud, if Israel is reclaimed by military might or political influence, ceaseless war will be the result.

Those Talmud writers sure were smart.

The United Nations as an international organization passed a resolution which created the Jewish state of Israel. And when they were created, they merely created the state and implemented Jewish ways. They never evicted Palestinians from their homes; a huge portion of Israel today is composed of Arabs.

But, Palestinians were justifiably angry, thus causing tension among Arabs and Jews, and it has escalated to this.


wasn't it the case that there was no legal Palestinian state beause the nomads in the region didn't participate in world politics? It's so confusing...

I support the right for Jews to live in Palestine without fear of persecution, but I don't support the existence of the State of Israel.
The way they went about giving Jews their 'homeland' was wrong, and only set up the violence that now simmers and explodes every three months.

Thanks, Balfour Declaration!

And to the person who mentioned the Talmud, that is very interesting. I dont want to defeat it, but where does it say that?

And to the person who mentioned the Talmud, that is very interesting. I dont want to defeat it, but where does it say that?

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/scriptures/scriptures/scriptures1.pdf

Scroll down to around page 7 where it starts talking about the future redemption not being through a human intermediary.

http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2006/07/milking-it.html

Well worth the read.

You do realise blogs aren't journalistic sources, don't you?

You do realise blogs aren't journalistic sources, don't you?
You do realize that some blogs are credible, don't you?

DK what was the point of posting that? Did anyone here say they support Hezbollas actions? Did you pay any attention to what this thread is about?

DK what was the point of posting that? Did anyone here say they support Hezbollas actions? Did you pay any attention to what this thread is about?

OceanDrive supports Hezbollah.

You do realise blogs aren't journalistic sources, don't you?

No DK's and that blogger is right - only two children at most died in the bombings and any credible journalist would only take one picture and move on.

OceanDrive supports Hezbollah.


And OceanDrive didnt post in this thread, nor do I believe he supports Israels right to exist.

You do realize that some blogs are credible, don't you?

I'd still like to see more than one source if the primary source is a blog.

Who supports Hezbollah's right to milk dead children for every photo op imaginable?
Me. It grows stale but vocal outcries are an entirely protected human right.

I can't say I support the flaunting of dead babies (more due to the fact that their deaths are being glorified than due to any particular political motivation), but the people must have the right to express their anguish.

I'd still like to see more than one source if the primary source is a blog.
The blog is using more than one news source (several in fact).

The "primary" source is not the blog.

The blog is using more than one news source (several in fact).

The "primary" source is not the blog.

Then why not link to the primary source?

The blog is using more than one news source (several in fact).

The "primary" source is not the blog.

If you support the source so much, why did you delete your post?

If you support the source so much, why did you delete your post?
On the off chance that the photos on the blog might be considered offensive.

The United Nations as an international organization passed a resolution which created the Jewish state of Israel. And when they were created, they merely created the state and implemented Jewish ways. They never evicted Palestinians from their homes; a huge portion of Israel today is composed of Arabs.

But, Palestinians were justifiably angry, thus causing tension among Arabs and Jews, and it has escalated to this.

The UN passed a resolution to divide Palestine, they did not create Israel.
Immigrating Jews set up militias and started cleansing villages in northern Palestine as early as 1946.
What is causing tensions is the fact that Israel exists where it should not. The UN could have given a part of Germany to the Jews or an island in the Indian Ocean but not a land where the population had deserved to be finally free of foreign rule and oppression.

Arguing about Israel's creation is reasonable, and it's fair to say that some of the Arab people there were seriously harmed by it. On the other hand, there were a lot of Arabs who discomfited themselves; many Arabs who were asked, even begged, to stay in the new state chose to leave, and wound up in the so-called refugee camps.

But really, all of this is now rather moot. Israel has existed for about half a century, and a significant percentage of the Israeli population is now Israeli born. Israel is not an illegitimate state, and is recognized by both the UN and most nations of the world.

As to their policies - the only one I have a huge problem with is continuing construction of settlements in Arab lands. This, they should stop. Otherwise, their actions have not been unreasonable.

The United Nations as an international organization passed a resolution which created the Jewish state of Israel. And when they were created, they merely created the state and implemented Jewish ways. They never evicted Palestinians from their homes; a huge portion of Israel today is composed of Arabs.


Yes they did evict them from their homes, and those that remain compose roughly 20% of the population....

Arguing about Israel's creation is reasonable, and it's fair to say that some of the Arab people there were seriously harmed by it. On the other hand, there were a lot of Arabs who discomfited themselves; many Arabs who were asked, even begged, to stay in the new state chose to leave, and wound up in the so-called refugee camps.

But really, all of this is now rather moot. Israel has existed for about half a century, and a significant percentage of the Israeli population is now Israeli born. Israel is not an illegitimate state, and is recognized by both the UN and most nations of the world.

As to their policies - the only one I have a huge problem with is continuing construction of settlements in Arab lands. This, they should stop. Otherwise, their actions have not been unreasonable.

Well, last time a united entity called Israel lasted for 81 years. I hope to see the downfall of this symbol of moral failure earlier this time. The fact that Israel has existed for half a century now does not diminish the mistake of allowing it to be created in the first place. The reason for the recognition of Israel was the world's bad conscience after what happened to the Jews under the Nazis and maybe also the hope to get rid of them in other parts of the world. Anyways Jews had been coming to Palestine for their own ideology of superiority (zionism) long before the creation of Israel. Every aspect of Israel is stained with injustice and Jews in general will always be remembered for the blood that was spilled because of them (and their god) throughout history, their own blood and their victims'.

Well, last time a united entity called Israel lasted for 81 years. I hope to see the downfall of this symbol of moral failure earlier this time. The fact that Israel has existed for half a century now does not diminish the mistake of allowing it to be created in the first place. The reason for the recognition of Israel was the world's bad conscience after what happened to the Jews under the Nazis and maybe also the hope to get rid of them in other parts of the world. Anyways Jews had been coming to Palestine for their own ideology of superiority (zionism) long before the creation of Israel. Every aspect of Israel is stained with injustice and Jews in general will always be remembered for the blood that was spilled because of them (and their god) throughout history, their own blood and their victims'.

Interestingly, with just a few names changed, pretty much exactly the same argument could be made for the destruction of the US, Canada, Australia, all of the Central and South American nations...and with equal validity: none.

But there are no names changed and the evil deeds of others do not justify those of the Jews. In fact the ideology behind the evil deeds of Jews and their alleged ideological ancestors were often used as a prototype for the murdering of the aboriginal inhabitants of the US, Canada, Australia, all of the Central and South American countries. The god that was brought to these lands by force was the forged Jewish god after all.

I support this thread

I don't have an answer to the problem of Israel.

I don't have an answer to the problem of Israel.

Israel itself isn't a problem. It's when you have Israel, Arabs and occupied territory that it becomes a problem.

You all again managed to entirely destroy the original intention of this thread.

And regarding the blog-news debate...

Blogs are just diaries, journals wrote by people, and as an information source, they usually hold no value because they are deeply "infected" with the opinion of the writer...

But then again, Do you know what a "news" is?

Most news are just blogs written by certified journalists. I am a journalist, so you can believe me, thus...We can give some credibility to blogs after all. You people take the news and the links to any information service soooo seriously.

Most news are just blogs written by certified journalists. I am a journalist, so you can believe me, thus...We can give some credibility to blogs after all. You people take the news and the links to any information service soooo seriously.

Some blogs are very credible in any case. And every journalist will to some degree infect their work with their personal beliefs.

Take each with a grain of salt - just because the journalist is "certified" doesn't mean they aren't pushing an agenda.

Looks like Judith Miller's phone records are going to be handed over to the Feds - she lost on appeal to keep them away from the Feds. Apparently, they believe that she tipped off terrorist funding organizations that their assets were about to be frozen, and her phone calls will damn her.

It's one thing to report the news - it's quite another to sympathize with your source and tip them off.

Some blogs are very credible in any case. And every journalist will to some degree infect their work with their personal beliefs.

Take each with a grain of salt - just because the journalist is "certified" doesn't mean they aren't pushing an agenda.

Looks like Judith Miller's phone records are going to be handed over to the Feds - she lost on appeal to keep them away from the Feds. Apparently, they believe that she tipped off terrorist funding organizations that their assets were about to be frozen, and her phone calls will damn her.

It's one thing to report the news - it's quite another to sympathize with your source and tip them off.

My point exactly. I said that news are just "famous" blogs, and that journalists are no more than famous, or otherwise "legitimate" bloggers, so it's not like journalists do not infect their writings with their opinions (note the use of "").

Everyone is pùshing an agenda, even not pushing an agenda is considered to be pushing an agenda. I hope you understand this part.

Everyone is pùshing an agenda, even not pushing an agenda is considered to be pushing an agenda. I hope you understand this part.

Be especially wary of the blogger or journalist (or even the politician) who says that they are "mainstream". It's probably the biggest lie they will tell you.

Well, the effects of agenda setting and agenda building are two different approaches, but yes, there is not such thing as "mainstream"

Well, the effects of agenda setting and agenda building are two different approaches, but yes, there is not such thing as "mainstream"

Indeed, the concept of "mainstream," in the language of my gorgeous friend here, is mierda.

Well in reality its in another sequence: you read the Tanaach and find it unimaginably brain-dead . Then you despise those who adhere to this crap. Then you hate those who pretend to be a people and create territorial claims based on this crap. Then you hate those who made a state out of the claims and who force their living in the land of another, real people. What Israel is doing is based on the wrong assumption that non-Palestinian Jews had any rights to a land that their (alleged) ancestors turned their backs on well over 1800 years ago.
East of Eden once again not only shows his anti-semitism (every post he has ever made has been anti-Jewish). He also shows his lack of historical knowledge. My ancestors didn't abandon the land. They fought to the death against the Romans. The Jews held out as long as they could until they were defeated. (See Masadah.) The Romans then dispersed the Jews across the world. The Jews didn't turn their backs on the land, they were kicked out.

We can prove that Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews come from the same ancestors today with DNA testing. The fact is that the ancient Israelis are not our "alleged ancestors." They are our true ancestors. DNA testing connecting various groups of Jews has proven that.

But there are no names changed and the evil deeds of others do not justify those of the Jews. In fact the ideology behind the evil deeds of Jews and their alleged ideological ancestors were often used as a prototype for the murdering of the aboriginal inhabitants of the US, Canada, Australia, all of the Central and South American countries. The god that was brought to these lands by force was the forged Jewish god after all.

Except...that the Israelis, both in their myth-cycle, and in reality, and unlike those nations you say used the Jewish example as a "prototype", are NOT guilty of attempted genocide. Indeed, according to their scriptures, they got into big trouble with god because they WOULDN'T wipe out the other inhabitants of Judea.

In the modern time, they begged their Arab neighbours to stay and help build their new country. And they obeyed the restrictions on ownership of Jerusalem - right up to the point when those restrictions were used against them by the Arabs in an attempted genocide against the Jews. They withdrew from various areas they had seized because the UN asked them to after that war - and payed for it, when the Arabs attacked them AGAIN.

So, then the Arabs start blowing up buses, attacking patrols, shooting settlers. And Israel, over and over again, enters into dialogues and treaties - increasingly reluctantly, to be sure, but they do.

I'm not saying that Israel has always done the right thing, or that their policies have always been enlightened paragons of virtuous thought. But frankly, Israel has been much more moral, just and righteous than any of their foes. And that includes with their current campaign in Lebanon.

I'm in. Good idea, bad leaders.

Welcome to the dark... no dim side.

But there are no names changed and the evil deeds of others do not justify those of the Jews. In fact the ideology behind the evil deeds of Jews and their alleged ideological ancestors were often used as a prototype for the murdering of the aboriginal inhabitants of the US, Canada, Australia, all of the Central and South American countries. The god that was brought to these lands by force was the forged Jewish god after all.
Nope, you're definitely not an anti-semite.:rolleyes:

Are you there Mr. Gibson?

Nope, you're definitely not an anti-semite.:rolleyes:

Are you there Mr. Gibson?

Uh-oh, it's the teal...

the only way that Israel has survived this long is because of its aggressive nature towards threats I'm not saying its a good thing that they kill people, but if Israel would have taken this somewhat passive approach to threats when Israel was founded they would have been destroyed before, or during the six-day-war.

Here is a small collection of his posts. I only had to look at a couple to gather this list. I think 90% of his posts have been blatantly anti-semitic. I think we got ourselves a real Nazi here.

There will be no peace until the Jews have all returned to where they came from.
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11408652&postcount=8


Of course there will never be peace. As soon as one "enemy" is beaten, the Jews will find a new one. Jews have always defined themselves through their enmity to others. That's also the purpose of the Tanaach.
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11408671&postcount=11

All Jews are religious fundamentalists. Of course there is no Jewish race, but a ideologically driven group of people who have always believed to be something special
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11408692&postcount=17

You are right. Judaism is bigotry
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11408711&postcount=21

Jews aren't a people. They are a religious group.
And of course there is ant-Jewish sentiment among the Arab world. There has been anti-Jewish sentiment everywhere Jews have lived ever since Jews existed.
So if one kid always stirs trouble, is it the other kids' fault?
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11434497&postcount=147


It's more than that. The UN have simply realized that they have allowed statehood to an evil religious group and that this is an error that needs correction.http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11416869&postcount=65

Take it to Moderation.

You could just ignore him as well.

You could just ignore him as well.
Then you allow the prick to get away with it.

Then you allow the prick to get away with it.
Well, apparently, NS has a long history of being a haven for neo-Nazis, Arabs who can't wait to kill Jews, and pedophiles who claim not to have acted on their impulses... yet...

I figure that it's OK for them to post their crap here - it makes them feel they are doing well, right before the world puts an elephant cock up their ass.

Well, apparently, NS has a long history of being a haven for neo-Nazis, Arabs who can't wait to kill Jews, and pedophiles who claim not to have acted on their impulses... yet...



Yet...

Many of these statements are their personal opinion. Some are generalisations to some degree, but almost everybody makes those at some point. Admittedly, his manner may be occasionally somewhat abrupt, but I do not see that this is anything too sinister.

Then you allow the prick to get away with it.
Like a whisper in a hurricane.

Many of these statements are their personal opinion. Some are generalisations to some degree, but almost everybody makes those at some point. Admittedly, his manner may be occasionally somewhat abrupt, but I do not see that this is anything too sinister.
Do a search for all of his 168 posts. You will see that at least 150 of them are posts dedicated to trashing the Jews and calling them evil. He a a freaking Nazi.

Like a whisper in a hurricane.
Sorry, but I'd rather not bury my head in the sand. I prefer to confront morons with facts.

Like a whisper in a hurricane.
Better to hear them, and know who they are, than to not know.

Besides, if they are in the US or UK, considering the amount of monitoring that goes on nowadays, they're probably on a list of terrorist sympathizers by now.

The US and apparently Canada as well are monitoring websites, forums, and even mosques 24/7. You would have to believe that the NSA still requires a warrant in order to think pro-terrorist statements would go ignored here.

I definetly(sp?) think Israel has the right to exist as a country but I think they should create a dual-state with equal political power and respect shared between the Jews and Arabs. As opposed to just herding all the palestinians into what are effectively, ghettoes.

What do you think? Am I on to something? or am I a hopeless idealist?

I definetly(sp?) think Israel has the right to exist as a country but I think they should create a dual-state with equal political power and respect shared between the Jews and Arabs. As opposed to just herding all the palestinians into what are effectively, ghettoes.

What do you think? Am I on to something? or am I a hopeless idealist?
Hopeless Idealist. The idea was proposed in 1947, but it was rejected because the leader of the state would've been one of Hitler's biggest allies, Haj Amin Al-Husseini. He was an SS officer, friend of Himmler and HItler, and the leader of the Palestinians from the 20s all the way to the 60s. Besides, with birthing rates, the Palestinians would outnumber the Jews in a few generations and commit another Holocaust.

Well, apparently, NS has a long history of being a haven for neo-Nazis, Arabs who can't wait to kill Jews, and pedophiles who claim not to have acted on their impulses... yet...

I figure that it's OK for them to post their crap here - it makes them feel they are doing well, right before the world puts an elephant cock up their ass.

You mean...

Well, apparently, NS has a long history of being a haven for neo-Nazis, Arabs who can't wait to kill Jews, Islamaphobic genocide fetishists, and pedophiles who claim not to have acted on their impulses... yet...

I figure that it's OK for them to post their crap here - it makes them feel they are doing well, right before the United States and Israel puts an elephant cock up their ass.

Irony much? And apparently having a mutual masturbation fest post with your fellow "Jew Crew" (which is a laugh considering few if any of you are Hebrew at all) isn't enough either.

Then you allow the prick to get away with it.

Sort of like how the world needs to constantly know what a threat Cindy Sheehan is to society eh?

:D

You mean...

Irony much? And apparently having a mutual masturbation fest post with your fellow "Jew Crew" (which is a laugh considering few if any of you are Hebrew at all) isn't enough either.
Well, considering that any sympathy to terrorist causes (as viewed by the UK and US) is recorded by the NSA, I'm not too worried.

You see, advocating the destruction of certain Arab states and certain Islamic movements is not considered a "bad thing" by the NSA.

Sympathizing with Hezbollah is considered a "bad thing".

So, keep posting!

Who Supports Israel's Right To Exist But Not Its Behavior and Policies?

*Raises hand*

Better to hear them, and know who they are, than to not know.

Besides, if they are in the US or UK, considering the amount of monitoring that goes on nowadays, they're probably on a list of terrorist sympathizers by now.

The US and apparently Canada as well are monitoring websites, forums, and even mosques 24/7. You would have to believe that the NSA still requires a warrant in order to think pro-terrorist statements would go ignored here.
Hell would have to be an idiot to think that pro peace protesters don’t “Accidentally” end up in NSA databases either.

Well, considering that any sympathy to terrorist causes (as viewed by the UK and US) is recorded by the NSA, I'm not too worried.

You see, advocating the destruction of certain Arab states and certain Islamic movements is not considered a "bad thing" by the NSA.

Sympathizing with Hezbollah is considered a "bad thing".

So, keep posting!
Ahh whatever those fucktards want to classify me as is ok with me … they really have shown as much ability as some of the posters that scream anti-Semite if you aren’t felicitating Israel.

They still pay me perfectly good money as a technology consultant and so far nothing I have said on here has restricted that ability. (maybe that shows me that they actually aren’t as dumb as I think they are anyways … hmm something to think about)

Well, considering that any sympathy to terrorist causes (as viewed by the UK and US) is recorded by the NSA, I'm not too worried.

Sort of like how some peace activist movements end up as "terrorist sympathizers." Brilliant.

You see, advocating the destruction of certain Arab states and certain Islamic movements is not considered a "bad thing" by the NSA.

And where does the NSA explicitly state this? And I very much doubt that systematic sterilization of an ethnicity (because there's no such thing as a Muslim gene otherwise Christians and Jews would set them off too) is a method approved by the NSA. Last time a nation tried an idea like that, we had the Nurnberg Trials.

Sympathizing with Hezbollah is considered a "bad thing".

Ah, so anyone who doesn't bend over and take it up the ass like Israel's bitch is automatically a Hezbolla, Al Qaeda and Wahhabist supporter? Nice generalization.

So, keep posting!

I doubt I'll stop noting your ironies and outright hypocrisies any time soon.

And where does the NSA explicitly state this?

What planet are you on?

Hopeless Idealist. The idea was proposed in 1947, but it was rejected because the leader of the state would've been one of Hitler's biggest allies, Haj Amin Al-Husseini. He was an SS officer, friend of Himmler and HItler, and the leader of the Palestinians from the 20s all the way to the 60s. Besides, with birthing rates, the Palestinians would outnumber the Jews in a few generations and commit another Holocaust.

Do you actually think they'd be allowed to commit a genocide? The slightst hint of violence and the US, EU, and UN would all over the place

What planet are you on?

Yes, as if NSA policies are public domain. Either show it or zip it.

:rolleyes:

Do you actually think they'd be allowed to commit a genocide? The slightst hint of violence and the US, EU, and UN would all over the place

Apparently today, as long as the targeted ethnicities are Muslim by faith, it's acceptable and even encouraged.

Well, considering that any sympathy to terrorist causes (as viewed by the UK and US) is recorded by the NSA, I'm not too worried.

You see, advocating the destruction of certain Arab states and certain Islamic movements is not considered a "bad thing" by the NSA.

Sympathizing with Hezbollah is considered a "bad thing".

So, keep posting!
You're just as vulnerable as any of us. After all, you're downloading and viewing exactly what we are, and you retain the same degree of anonymity we do.

The only way to keep yourself safe is to not access it. Otherwise, blam. Terrorist supporter, right there.

You're just as vulnerable as any of us. After all, you're downloading and viewing exactly what we are, and you retain the same degree of anonymity we do.

The only way to keep yourself safe is to not access it. Otherwise, blam. Terrorist supporter, right there.

Nope - they look to see who posts what. It's pretty simple, actually.

Hopeless Idealist. The idea was proposed in 1947, but it was rejected because the leader of the state would've been one of Hitler's biggest allies, Haj Amin Al-Husseini. He was an SS officer, friend of Himmler and HItler, and the leader of the Palestinians from the 20s all the way to the 60s. Besides, with birthing rates, the Palestinians would outnumber the Jews in a few generations and commit another Holocaust.

Are you making things up again? He never set foot in the area after 1936, and was sidelined from 1948 on.

Nope - they look to see who posts what. It's pretty simple, actually.

"If you do nothing wrong then you have nothing to fear." The last refuge of people who thank God every day they're not brown skinned Muslims or who haven't been put on an air marshal's quota list yet.

Hopeless Idealist. The idea was proposed in 1947, but it was rejected because the leader of the state would've been one of Hitler's biggest allies, Haj Amin Al-Husseini. He was an SS officer, friend of Himmler and HItler, and the leader of the Palestinians from the 20s all the way to the 60s. Besides, with birthing rates, the Palestinians would outnumber the Jews in a few generations and commit another Holocaust.

I think you're being a little pessimistic, IDF. While nothing would have worked under al-Husseini, actual interaction between Jews and Arabs could have reduced tensions and defused points of contention. Plus, if the Arabs were experiencing the same economic advancement as their Jewish neighbours, their population growth would have slowed too.

On the other hand, Pyotr you have to remember that the Arabs, not the Israelis, were the primary makers of those Ghettoes. Most of them didn't have to move.

Apparently today, as long as the targeted ethnicities are Muslim by faith, it's acceptable and even encouraged.

meh, i just wish someone would come up with a sensible solution to the middle east conflict that doesn't involve mass murder, rape, biological or nuclear warfare, forced pork eating, or exploding donkeys

Nope - they look to see who posts what. It's pretty simple, actually.
Simple huh … ok where would you start reading the muti millon posts made on this site alone? And filtering by post? Separating direct quotes from forum style qotes?

How about the code side differences between the major forum types (phpBB Vbullitin and such) or the home made ones?

Unless you are proposing they do this all by hand…

Nope - they look to see who posts what. It's pretty simple, actually.
And just who is Kamsaki, exactly, that they can arrest? I access the forums from behind a LAN as, I'm sure, a lot of the forums do. The IP address will tell them what university I'm at, possibly which server I'm connected to, and nothing more.

Pseudonyms destroy any notion of identity. It's the digital paper trail they rely on, and it leads as much to your door as it does to mine.

Sorry, but I'd rather not bury my head in the sand. I prefer to confront morons with facts.

What fact are you referring to? You seem all too ready to invent large numbers and ignore others on a regular basis.


While hes certainly not going to any Barmitzvahs soon, it must be said that a number of those you seem to agree with have preference for defiling corpses, usually with a food forbidden to those following the Hebrew faith as well as muslims. What are you going to say to them?

Simple huh … ok where would you start reading the muti millon posts made on this site alone? And filtering by post? Separating direct quotes from forum style qotes?

How about the code side differences between the major forum types (phpBB Vbullitin and such) or the home made ones?

Unless you are proposing they do this all by hand…

He'll probably propose they be done by programs like Predator, which of course lack a human being's ability to grasp context. So even say, a reference about Independence Day with "blow up the White House" would trigger it and BAM! You're a terror suspect.

Well in reality its in another sequence: you read the Tanaach and find it unimaginably brain-dead . Then you despise those who adhere to this crap. Then you hate those who pretend to be a people and create territorial claims based on this crap. Then you hate those who made a state out of the claims and who force their living in the land of another, real people. What Israel is doing is based on the wrong assumption that non-Palestinian Jews had any rights to a land that their (alleged) ancestors turned their backs on well over 1800 years ago.

I think you'll find that they were expelled by the Romans and a sucession of other hostile powers after them.

In other news, I'm in.

Are you making things up again? He never set foot in the area after 1936, and was sidelined from 1948 on.
He was leading from Egypt. THe Same way Arafat led from Beirut and Triploi in the 70s and 80s. He was still the leader. (Arafat was also his nephew, that's why he got the job)

He'll probably propose they be done by programs like Predator, which of course lack a human being's ability to grasp context. So even say, a reference about Independence Day with "blow up the White House" would trigger it and BAM! You're a terror suspect.


Whoops!


EDIT: BAM! Blair Drummond Against Market

And just who is Kamsaki, exactly, that they can arrest? I access the forums from behind a LAN as, I'm sure, a lot of the forums do. The IP address will tell them what university I'm at, possibly which server I'm connected to, and nothing more.

Pseudonyms destroy any notion of identity. It's the digital paper trail they rely on, and it leads as much to your door as it does to mine.
They can subpoena your information from the university though…

And I grantee the university keeps records on who was connected where, I know we do no problem. If we are forced to track down an IP I can tell you the time they logged in at to the time they logged off at

What computer what user and a whole plethora of other information

And through the beauty of data tables and a good switching system if you are plugged in ore wireless with a personal laptop I could tell you what room you are in (or if wireless your location within 5 feet)

Do you actually think they'd be allowed to commit a genocide? The slightst hint of violence and the US, EU, and UN would all over the place
Just like the world intervened after Kristelnacht.:rolleyes:

He'll probably propose they be done by programs like Predator, which of course lack a human being's ability to grasp context. So even say, a reference about Independence Day with "blow up the White House" would trigger it and BAM! You're a terror suspect.
Exactly screen readers have to filter quoted material from not quoted material just to START with … that alone is a task, when you only see the front end version to version change the coding of quote boxes

Not to mention if you actually use quotation marks “ “

I mean I have had to build perl page readers before but it took months and all it did was read from one VERY specific page

I support the Jews' right to live whereever they want, but I completely oppose an exclusive Jewish state. In fact, isnt it fundamentally against Judaism to reclaim the holy land? Isnt one of the main things about being Jewish is that you are in exile?




No, one of the 'main things' about Judaism is that God gave Israel to the Jews. having said that, there is a minority of ultra-orthodox Jews who think the Holy Land should not be returned to the Jews until the coming of the Messiah.

They can subpoena your information from the university though…

And I grantee the university keeps records on who was connected where, I know we do no problem. If we are forced to track down an IP I can tell you the time they logged in at to the time they logged off at

What computer what user and a whole plethora of other information

And through the beauty of data tables and a good switching system if you are plugged in ore wireless with a personal laptop I could tell you what room you are in (or if wireless your location within 5 feet)

Can we plz take the surveilence stuff to
another thread

Just like the world intervened after Kristelnacht.:rolleyes:

yup back in 1940
before the UN and the EU and before 24/7 news and the internet and before the word "holocaust" became a house-hold name

Sorry but your referance is a wee-bit obsolete
"well the world didn't do anything about kristalnacht so they won't do anything now!!!"
logical fallacy

They can subpoena your information from the university though…

And I grantee the university keeps records on who was connected where, I know we do no problem. If we are forced to track down an IP I can tell you the time they logged in at to the time they logged off at

What computer what user and a whole plethora of other information

And through the beauty of data tables and a good switching system if you are plugged in ore wireless with a personal laptop I could tell you what room you are in (or if wireless your location within 5 feet)
No US government has the authority to get that information from my University. UK legislation prohibits the disclosure of personal information without a proven legal requirement for it to be revealed; the penalty for its violation being 5 years imprisonment for each unauthorised entry and theft per person involved.

yup back in 1940
before the UN and the EU and before 24/7 news and the internet and before the word "holocaust" became a house-hold name
Then explain why the UN is allowing one to occur in Sudan today. Why did they allow one in Rwanda? Even in today's world, the UN lacks the balls do do jack shit. CHina and Russia will veto any resolution in the interest of oil.

They can subpoena your information from the university though…

And I grantee the university keeps records on who was connected where, I know we do no problem. If we are forced to track down an IP I can tell you the time they logged in at to the time they logged off at

What computer what user and a whole plethora of other information

And through the beauty of data tables and a good switching system if you are plugged in ore wireless with a personal laptop I could tell you what room you are in (or if wireless your location within 5 feet)

I love those people who say that content can't be examined by program.

I guess those people never use Google.

Define an ontology, and you can filter anything for content. Won't be perfect, but enough to dump something into a smaller pot for more refinement.

No US government has the authority to get that information from my University. UK legislation prohibits the disclosure of personal information without a proven legal requirement for it to be revealed; the penalty for its violation being 5 years imprisonment for each unauthorised entry and theft per person involved.
I was not aware of your over-seas location … one of the problems with “NSA” monitoring that I brought up earlier (don’t remember if it was in this thread)

People think that they have unlimited technological power, I have been consulting with more then one military organization on networking and security for years and I can state as far as I have seen they do NOT have a magic wand.

I love those people who say that content can't be examined by program.

I guess those people never use Google.

Define an ontology, and you can filter anything for content. Won't be perfect, but enough to dump something into a smaller pot for more refinement.
Google does a horrible job of contextual filtering … they are a brute rather then a refined method as far as nested information goes

Lol and it gets MUCH worse as you get things like nested email list serve postings … 30 replies deep and my name happens to be nested SOMEWHERE in that frigging mess.

Let me ask how would you code it? I have been doing it for years and I don’t see a practical way myself …

Then explain why the UN is allowing one to occur in Sudan today. Why did they allow one in Rwanda? Even in today's world, the UN lacks the balls do do jack shit. CHina and Russia will veto any resolution in the interest of oil.


Here's a thought: out of the United Nations and the League of Nations, which was the more successful in the grand scheme of things?

He was leading from Egypt. THe Same way Arafat led from Beirut and Triploi in the 70s and 80s. He was still the leader. (Arafat was also his nephew, that's why he got the job)

emmm....no, the Jordanians and Egyptians didnt appreciate his "talents" and he was sidelined. And for the last fucking time, Arafat was not his nephew. Arafats mother was a cousin of the mufti.

But there are no names changed and the evil deeds of others do not justify those of the Jews. In fact the ideology behind the evil deeds of Jews and their alleged ideological ancestors were often used as a prototype for the murdering of the aboriginal inhabitants of the US, Canada, Australia, all of the Central and South American countries. The god that was brought to these lands by force was the forged Jewish god after all.

The British settlers who colonised the USA were really evil. They had no right to steal native American land and destroy their way of life. All US citizens should be repatriated to the country of their ethnic origins.

Y'see?

Then explain why the UN is allowing one to occur in Sudan today. Why did they allow one in Rwanda? Even in today's world, the UN lacks the balls do do jack shit. CHina and Russia will veto any resolution in the interest of oil.

Since when does Russia and China have oil interests in Israel and why would it benefit them for the jews to be destroyed and bunch of anti-western, anti-communist, Islamist terrorist groups take over?

and even if it was the worst case scenerio that the U.N. is caught in a tiger trap of its own impotence the U.S. and the E.U. are not gonna sit around and watch one of their bigest allies fall to terrorism

The British settlers who colonised the USA were really evil. They had no right to steal native American land and destroy their way of life. All US citizens should be repatriated to the country of their ethnic origins.

Y'see?


Also the French, the Dutch, the Spanish, the Germans, the Chinese and so on.

Then explain why the UN is allowing one to occur in Sudan today. Why did they allow one in Rwanda? Even in today's world, the UN lacks the balls do do jack shit. CHina and Russia will veto any resolution in the interest of oil.

The UN does not exist independent of its member states, therefore to say "the UN lacks..." means that some, most or all of its member states lack the balls to act. However its truer to say that none will act against what they consider their own interests. Including America.

Let me ask how would you code it? I have been doing it for years and I don’t see a practical way myself …

IPv6 is going to make things easier. For starters, you won't be getting a randomly assigned IP address when you connect to the Internet - it's going to be the same one every time.

I won't have to ask the university what computer connected to me at what time, because I'll know.

Contextual and ontological search capabilities are improving every year. Additionally, current program dump reports on the desks of humans, who then filter through what's left.

It's obviously produced results before, especially with the Bali bombings.

And no, no one is going to read an entire thread in context until it gets to an analyst's desk.

One might also conclude that certain forums are going to be far more popular with politically motivated people - people who might be recruiters or targets of recruiters.

This is very probably one of those forums. You could put one analyst on it, and no software, and let them read and post all day.

Call it "trolling for terrorists".

The British settlers who colonised the USA were really evil. They had no right to steal native American land and destroy their way of life. All US citizens should be repatriated to the country of their ethnic origins.

Y'see?
Wrong allegory, I'd say. More often than not, people lambasting the jewish right to self-determination would also be the people who'd agree with your above example.

Though to be honest, Manifest Destiny is a disgusting smear in US history as it stands; far worse than Israel's wish for self-determination.

Call it "trolling for terrorists".

Or "trolling for attention". That seems very popular.

Or "trolling for attention". That seems very popular.
That depends on the answers you get, doesn't it?

Well, apparently, NS has a long history of being a haven for neo-Nazis, Arabs who can't wait to kill Jews, and pedophiles who claim not to have acted on their impulses... yet...

I figure that it's OK for them to post their crap here - it makes them feel they are doing well, right before the world puts an elephant cock up their ass.

O no, its the kind of post you put, I find.

IPv6 is going to make things easier. For starters, you won't be getting a randomly assigned IP address when you connect to the Internet - it's going to be the same one every time.

I won't have to ask the university what computer connected to me at what time, because I'll know.

Contextual and ontological search capabilities are improving every year. Additionally, current program dump reports on the desks of humans, who then filter through what's left.

It's obviously produced results before, especially with the Bali bombings.

And no, no one is going to read an entire thread in context until it gets to an analyst's desk.

One might also conclude that certain forums are going to be far more popular with politically motivated people - people who might be recruiters or targets of recruiters.

This is very probably one of those forums. You could put one analyst on it, and no software, and let them read and post all day.

Call it "trolling for terrorists".

No IPV6 is going to be geographically assigned not static, there is no way it is going to be statically assigned that would make things SO insecure

Why do you think we dropped down to a 4 hour lease time … when you can shuffle machines addresses around you reduce their potential exposure to a prolonged attack.

The only real differences is the first section will be geographically assigned rather then class assignment

(In fact just looked up the new RIP protocol to handle IPV6)

No IPV6 is going to be geographically assigned not static, there is no way it is going to be statically assigned that would make things SO insecure

Why do you think we dropped down to a 4 hour lease time … when you can shuffle machines addresses around you reduce their potential exposure to a prolonged attack.

The only real differences is the first section will be geographically assigned rather then class assignment

(In fact just looked up the new RIP protocol to handle IPV6)


Yes, an individual machine can shuffle its own subnet addy - but you're fairly narrowed down by that point.

China went IPv6 first in order to get more control - and they got it.

It will be far easier to track people down with the new protocol.

Yes, an individual machine can shuffle its own subnet addy - but you're fairly narrowed down by that point.

China went IPv6 first in order to get more control - and they got it.

It will be far easier to track people down with the new protocol.
IPV6 is still DCHP dependant … there is no real advantage to IPV6 besides its increased address space (which allows geographical positioning yes but its not a property of the protocol its just what we can do with such a massive number of addresses)

What inherent protocol features are you thinking will help security?

(btw we REALLY should start a separate thread I find this so interesting I cant let go but we are major hijacking)

IPV6 is still DCHP dependant … there is no real advantage to IPV6 besides its increased address space (which allows geographical positioning yes but its not a property of the protocol its just what we can do with such a massive number of addresses)

What inherent protocol features are you thinking will help security?

(btw we REALLY should start a separate thread I find this so interesting I cant let go but we are major hijacking)

Check your TGs.

Anyone gonna stop talking about completely unrelated computery stuff?

Anyone gonna stop talking about completely unrelated computery stuff?
Stopped!

Since when does Russia and China have oil interests in Israel and why would it benefit them for the jews to be destroyed and bunch of anti-western, anti-communist, Islamist terrorist groups take over?

and even if it was the worst case scenerio that the U.N. is caught in a tiger trap of its own impotence the U.S. and the E.U. are not gonna sit around and watch one of their bigest allies fall to terrorism
They would want to appease the other Arab states. There is no way they would intervene for fear of economic reprocussions. They don't benefit from the Jews being destroyed, but they don't suffer fromit. Just like they don't benefit from the Sudanese genocide, but stopping it would hurt them economically. The EU wouldn't raise a finger to save Jews. History has proven that one many times.

emmm....no, the Jordanians and Egyptians didnt appreciate his "talents" and he was sidelined. And for the last fucking time, Arafat was not his nephew. Arafats mother was a cousin of the mufti.
It's true that the Jordanians and Egyptians didn't want him interfering, but he was very much an inspiration for the Palestinians during that time. He is still a hero in their eyes. So I got the relationship screwed up, it is still a fact that Arafat got into power because of his relative who was an SS officer and Nazi collaborater.

Here's a thought: out of the United Nations and the League of Nations, which was the more successful in the grand scheme of things?
Neither has been successful. Both have allowed mass genocide to occur unchecked because member states (China and Russia) put their oil interests above human life.

To all those who are jacking off at the idea of 'terrorist supporters' being watched by intelligence agencies, it' probably a good idea to remember that the people on the watchlists of today could be the leaders of tomorrow.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/198721.stm

It's true that the Jordanians and Egyptians didn't want him interfering, but he was very much an inspiration for the Palestinians during that time. He is still a hero in their eyes. So I got the relationship screwed up, it is still a fact that Arafat got into power because of his relative who was an SS officer and Nazi collaborater.

No, he did not get into power solely because of that very distant relationship and yes he was sidelined, thanks for belatedly admitting that.


The EU wouldn't raise a finger to save Jews. History has proven that one many times..

The EU was formed when?

To all those who are jacking off at the idea of 'terrorist supporters' being watched by intelligence agencies, it' probably a good idea to remember that the people on the watchlists of today could be the leaders of tomorrow.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/198721.stm

Yes, as though Bin Laden is going to be World President next year.

To all those who are jacking off at the idea of 'terrorist supporters' being watched by intelligence agencies, it' probably a good idea to remember that the people on the watchlists of today could be the leaders of tomorrow.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/198721.stm
Neat.

"You know, those Islamo-fascist types are alright. Heck, I'd want to take over the middle east too in their shoes. Good luck to them."

There, that should get me a place in the Labour cabinet in 2020. :D

The EU was formed when?
I meant to say there that the Europeans wouldn't raise a finger to save Jews. Anti-semitism is very alive and well in Europe, it's just not as open as it used to be or is hidden under the otherwise legitimate anti-zionist movement.

Yes, as though Bin Laden is going to be World President next year.

:D . He'd get more votes than Bush worldwide ;)

Neither has been successful. Both have allowed mass genocide to occur unchecked because member states (China and Russia) put their oil interests above human life.

What western nation referred to what was happening in Rwanda as "mass killing" to avoid saying genocide (which in theory obliges nations to intervene)?

:D . He'd get more votes than Bush worldwide ;)

Really? And more votes than any other candidate from any other country?

Do you really think the majority of people would vote for the return of the Caliph, total conversion to Wahhabi Islam, and put all the women into blue beekeeper outfits?

How many iPod owners would throw them away and never listen to music again?

How many women do you think would go along with that platform? Taliban-style Sharia government?

:D . He'd get more votes than Bush worldwide ;)
Eh... pushing it a little, I think. Bush has more people who'd vote for him regardless of who the opposition was than Bin Laden would. Stick in a third party and, while the third party would win, Dubya would come in number 2.

What western nation referred to what was happening in Rwanda as "mass killing" to avoid saying genocide (which in theory obliges nations to intervene)?
Many nations did (unfortunately, the US was one of them). Sudan is different though. We see it happeneing, but Russia wants to sell them arms and China wants their oil so no action is taken.

If it happened in Israel, OPEC would threaten by cutting production if China voted to pass a resolution for intervention. You know it as well as I do that they would put economcis above human life.

I meant to say there that the Europeans wouldn't raise a finger to save Jews. .

....Because anti-semitism was widespread. However they didnt know the Germans plans for extermination, so you cant say they allowed that to happen.

Next time 'say' rather than 'mean to'.

Many nations did (unfortunately, the US was one of them). Sudan is different though. We see it happeneing, but Russia wants to sell them arms and China wants their oil so no action is taken.
.

And America sits there crying its eyes out for the poor black babies the big bad others wont let it save......

....Because anti-semitism was widespread. However they didnt know the Germans plans for extermination, so you cant say they allowed that to happen.

Next time 'say' rather than 'mean to'.
I call bull. They knew about it, they just decided to ignore it. THere is ample evidence to support that FDR and European leaders knew what was happening. Now, it would be honest to say the citizens of other nations didn't know, but the same can't be said of the governments.

And America sits there crying its eyes out for the poor black babies the big bad others wont let it save......
Rwanda tought us a harsh lesson. The US has tried to pass a resoultion this time around, but the truth is that Russia and China don't give a fuck.

*snip*

*snip*

Am I the only one who recognises that the use of smilies is generally meant to imply that the post is intended to be humourous in nature?

And America sits there crying its eyes out for the poor black babies the big bad others wont let it save......
I don't think that's fair either. America yields some of the most generous philanthropists currently in operation. The fact that its population as a whole blatantly refuses to believe in charity doesn't really hide the other fact that some of its members have the power to rise above that and be really rather charitable.

Am I the only one who recognises that the use of smilies is generally meant to imply that the post is intended to be humourous in nature?
Sorry, I was distracted by the gun-toting smilies in your signature. I see guns, I immediately disregard smilies as a form of communication of intent. 0_o

I call bull. They knew about it, they just decided to ignore it. THere is ample evidence to support that FDR and European leaders knew what was happening. Now, it would be honest to say the citizens of other nations didn't know, but the same can't be said of the governments.

Churchill was also the first guy to advocate the gassing of the Kurds in 1917. So say what you will about him, he was an equal opportunity racist.

Am I the only one who recognises that the use of smilies is generally meant to imply that the post is intended to be humourous in nature?

Gun smilies on NS General are interpreted as "I'm a fucking idiot who uses smileys".

Here are the generally acceptable smileys, if not overdone.
:rolleyes: ;) :fluffle: :( :D :)

Gun smilies on NS General are interpreted as "I'm a fucking idiot who uses smileys".

Here are the generally acceptable smileys, if not overdone.
:rolleyes: ;) :fluffle: :( :D :)

Yes, I'm aware of this. I've been around for a while in other incarnations. My post was questioning why you were taking an obviously joke post so seriously?

I call bull. They knew about it, they just decided to ignore it. THere is ample evidence to support that FDR and European leaders knew what was happening. Now, it would be honest to say the citizens of other nations didn't know, but the same can't be said of the governments.

That they knew the Jews were being exterminated? in what year?


Rwanda tought us a harsh lesson..

How? Nobody wanted to get involved, the US included, and Nobody did, the US included. What lesson could the US learn from that? "Gee, these guys are as cynical as us"?


America yields some of the most generous philanthropists currently in operation. The fact that its population as a whole blatantly refuses to believe in charity doesn't really hide the other fact that some of its members have the power to rise above that and be really rather charitable...

I was referring to the American governments activities in the security council etc, rather than American nationals as a whole.

Since someone is going to put it in a Bushevik "You're Either With Us or Against Us" regarding the mess in the Middle East, I propose what I expect is a reasonable medium.

I support Israel's right to exist as a country, but not its habit of exercising the Uncle Jimbo Doctrine to blow the shit out of anything and anyone they feel like by calling it "Self Defense" and "Accidental."

*Nods Approvingly* Finally, a voice of sanity and reason!

That they knew the Jews were being exterminated? in what year?
My HS History teacher did his Senior Project on this topic. He showed me it. The world didn't officially know about the exterminations until 1941, but they saw it as likely to occur. They knew quite well of what was going on. Remember, there were thousands of Jews who escaped and tried to go to Palestine or the US.


How? Nobody wanted to get involved, the US included, and Nobody did, the US included. What lesson could the US learn from that? "Gee, these guys are as cynical as us"?
The lesson learned is that we can't allow this to occur again. The US has tried to go through the UN, but the fucking Russians and Chinese governments have blocked any resolution.