NationStates Jolt Archive

Boycott Israeli Goods Britain (http://www.bigcampaign.org/)

and


B.I.G US (http://www.boycottisraeligoods.org/modules11748.php)

At least now those of us disgusted by all those dead children can get organised and try and do our bit.

And before the predictibale response comes, I dont buy any Hezzbollah produce either.

For gods sake.... Grow up.

Of course, the folks involved in Hezbollah don't produce all that much. Show me a list of the stuff that Hezbollah produces, and I'll show you a blank piece of paper.

For gods sake.... Grow up.

I think boycotting the produce of a country whose actions I find morally repugnant is a mature and sensible approach.

Good comeback though, well thought out.

I think boycotting the produce of a country whose actions I find morally repugnant is a mature and sensible approach.

Good comeback though, well thought out.

But, it won't acheive anything. Also you shouldn't just target Israel, target all the countries involved in the conflict.

I've never picked up a product that said made in Israel at the bottom

For every Israeli good you boycott, I'll buy 3.

Also how many of you boycotters want to stop using the Israeli-invented Instant Messenger systems?

Boycott Israeli Goods Britain (http://www.bigcampaign.org/)

and B.I.G US (http://www.boycottisraeligoods.org/modules11748.php)

At least now those of us disgusted by all those dead children can get organised and try and do our bit.

And before the predictibale response comes, I dont buy any Hezzbollah produce either.
Thanks for the links. Now I know which products to buy to support Isreal. :D

That'll solve the problem alright.

Well, you do what you like. Though I don't really see how it's going to make a lot of difference. Obviously I can't speak for everyone in my country, but from what I've heard of people's views most of them couldn't give a damn about what's going on in Lebanon. Even most of those who say "Isn't that terrible?" will probably be too lazy to actually alter their life in any way.

Israel was attacked, 8 soldiers were killed and 2 captured in a cross border raid by Hezbollah therefore Israel is exercising their right to defend their selves. If you are pissed off by how many civilians are dying, maybe you should think that they had the opportunity to kick Hezbollah out, but they did not take that chance, thus getting themselves into the situation. I believe Israel is being very careful to not kill civilians. Israel could wipe Hezbollah out in less than a week, but that would kill way to many people, so they are exercising caution and are being considerate of the Lebanese people, In fact Israel could eliminate the problem in one millionth of a second (i.e. the use of thermonuclear weapons). I believe there is nothing wrong with the Israeli offensive, and Israel should be thanked for exercising so much caution. But, I know the tree-hugging, bleeding-hearts will disagree, and that is their choice.

Thanks for the links. Now I know which products to buy to support Isreal. :D
Go to the Kosher section of the supermarket. Most stuff has ISraeli origin. And it peaks around the holidays. Notably Rosh HAshanah is coming up.

From what I have seen, there is a quiet boycott going on. The Israeli origin fruit, dates, etc just keeps piling up in the supermarket, while the Spanish, Turkish and Iranian alternatives are selling very well. Naturally I am adding to that. Checking a label takes an extra couple of seconds of your time.

I think boycotting the produce of a country whose actions I find morally repugnant is a mature and sensible approach.

Good comeback though, well thought out.

So should we then also boycott Lebaneese and Palestian goods as well

Israel is defending itself. The morrally repungnat ones are Hezbollah.

So should we then also boycott Lebaneese and Palestian goods as well
LOL, you are welcome to go and find some. :D

Israel was attacked, 8 soldiers were killed and 2 captured in a cross border raid by Hezbollah therefore Israel is exercising their right to defend their selves. If you are pissed off by how many civilians are dying, maybe you should think that they had the opportunity to kick Hezbollah out, but they did not take that chance, thus getting themselves into the situation. I believe Israel is being very careful to not kill civilians. Israel could wipe Hezbollah out in less than a week, but that would kill way to many people, so they are exercising caution and are being considerate of the Lebanese people, In fact Israel could eliminate the problem in one millionth of a second (i.e. the use of thermonuclear weapons). I believe there is nothing wrong with the Israeli offensive, and Israel should be thanked for exercising so much caution. But, I know the tree-hugging, bleeding-hearts will disagree, and that is their choice.

Israel are still very careless with their actions though.

i don't buy these stuff anyway.

. I believe there is nothing wrong with the Israeli offensive, and Israel should be thanked for exercising so much caution. But, I know the tree-hugging, bleeding-hearts will disagree, and that is their choice.

tell that to the 50+ civilians who died when their appartment block was blown up.

tell that to the UN, who saw their compund attacked 14 times with artillary and then a prescision bomb.

tell that to the civilians who were killed in their cars and ambulances after being told to leave.

the apologists for isreal are getting boring, the rest of us are entiltled to a voice. here is one small way to make your feelings known about the IDF murdering literally hundreds of civilians when it could be avoided.

i love the thought of me as a tree hugger bleeding heart by the way!!! :p not even close.

Israel are still very careless with their actions though.

Not really, when you consider their alternatives. They are in a defensive mode. When you are surrounded by people that hate you, and don't believe you should exist, you need to lash out with the harshest retaliation that you can. If anything Israel should expand their operations. I am support of my country(U.S.) and countryman, to help defend Israel if Iran or Syria directly aid Hezbollah as that would be a violation of international law, thus requiring a full retaliatory response by the United States, when her allies are being attacked. Would I fight? Maybe if the $#!T hit the fan and there were attacks in the U.S. Yes, I would defend my country and go on the offensive.

I think boycotting the produce of a country whose actions I find morally repugnant is a mature and sensible approach.

Good comeback though, well thought out.
Soo, is there a country you do buy stuff from? Switzerland perhaps. Or do you just ignore said standards when it's convenient?

Also, you're not allowed to buy a core 2 duo proc, as they were developed in israel, you're also not allowed to use google because they use bits of programming done by israelis, not to mention there's a whole host of medical technologies you can't use.

Soo, is there a country you do buy stuff from? Switzerland perhaps. Or do you just ignore said standards when it's convenient?

name me one other exporting economy that acts like this?

tell that to the 50+ civilians who died when their appartment block was blown up.

tell that to the UN, who saw their compund attacked 14 times with artillary and then a prescision bomb.

tell that to the civilians who were killed in their cars and ambulances after being told to leave.

the apologists for isreal are getting boring, the rest of us are entiltled to a voice. here is one small way to make your feelings known about the IDF murdering literally hundreds of civilians when it could be avoided.

i love the thought of me as a tree hugger bleeding heart by the way!!! :p not even close.

I never said that you couldn't disagree with me, in fact I said that you probably would. The Lebanese people are not innocent, they could have risen up to their government and said "Enough is enough you $#!T heads!" There is no way Hezbollah could take on that many people. And, you don't like apologist for Israel? So... then you support Hezbollah? They are the ones that started this, or haven't you realized this yet? I hope one day it will sink in, that Israel is not responsible for the fighting, they are defending their own country from evil barbaric people that don't care whether they live or die.
P.S. Merry Christmas (in advance)

I never said that you couldn't disagree with me, in fact I said that you probably would. The Lebanese people are not innocent, they could have risen up to their government and said "Enough is enough you $#!T heads!" There is no way Hezbollah could take on that many people. And, you don't like apologist for Israel? So... then you support Hezbollah? They are the ones that started this, or haven't you realized this yet? I hope one day it will sink in, that Israel is not responsible for the fighting, they are defending their own country from evil barbaric people that don't care whether they live or die.
P.S. Merry Christmas (in advance)

thats it, i object to thr 500 innocents isreal killed so i support hezbollah?

'evil barbaric people'?

run along little boy, the grown ups are talking

Actually, the correct term is 500 civilians, many of which were probably in hezbollah but because they don't regularly wear uniforms they are classified as civilian.

thats it, i object to thr 500 innocents isreal killed so i support hezbollah?

'evil barbaric people'?

run along little boy, the grown ups are talking

Apparently you are feeling backed into a corner and the only way you can get out of it is by using insults... and you say I am the immature one?

Actually, the correct term is 500 civilians, many of which were probably in hezbollah but because they don't regularly wear uniforms they are classified as civilian.
Source for that fact?

Or is that just your opinion?

And, you don't like apologist for Israel? So... then you support Hezbollah?

One does not lead on to the other.

Boycott Israeli Goods Britain (http://www.bigcampaign.org/)

and


B.I.G US (http://www.boycottisraeligoods.org/modules11748.php)

At least now those of us disgusted by all those dead children can get organised and try and do our bit.

And before the predictibale response comes, I dont buy any Hezzbollah produce either.

What does Hezbollah produce other than suicide bombers?

And also, the Civilian deaths in Lebanon are not intentional, Israel is not trying to kill civilians, unlike Hezbollah who is launching rockets into Israel to try and get a lucky shot and kill one or two Israelis. If that isn't a terrorist group I don't know what is.

Go to the Kosher section of the supermarket. Most stuff has ISraeli origin. And it peaks around the holidays. Notably Rosh HAshanah is coming up.
Thanks. I'll be sure to stock up! :D

Boycotting a country whose policies you don't agree with is silly. Why should you punish economically a group of citizens that independently of any political action being taken in their country, are going about their buisnesses? In the case of Israel, why should you deny yourself a huge array of technologies that you take advantage of every single day (from drip tape for agriculture, to medical technology, to computer software) because you dissagree with their choice of govenment, or that government's decisions? Innovation, trade, and economy are some of the things we *can* agree to cooperate about without too much trouble. Anyway, if politics is you beef, starving a country economically isn't a very good way to get them on your side - especially not when that country is engaged in an existential war - here in Israel, and trus me, no-one, and I mean no-one will change their support, or dissuport of the current struggle on the grounds of some pansy-assed self-riteous boycott on the part of all you european hypocrytes. All you do is simply worsen the economic condition of those citizens, and the non-citizens that depend on them and their economy utterly - in this case, the Palestinians.

In any event, I charge all of you to exhamine your purcahsing policies regarding issues appart from using air-strikes to defend your cities - abuse of children, abuse of human rights, monopolies, state-controlled everything dictatorships, etc. Why Europeans especially prick their holier-than-thou do-good ears at anything Israel-related baffles me utterly. The inconsistency is glaring.

So should we then also boycott Lebaneese and Palestian goods as well
If I had ever bought any, I would! :D

Boycotting a country whose policies you don't agree with is silly. Why should you punish economically a group of citizens that independently of any political action being taken in their country, are going about their buisnesses? In the case of Israel, why should you deny yourself a huge array of technologies that you take advantage of every single day (from drip tape for agriculture, to medical technology, to computer software) because you dissagree with their choice of govenment, or that government's decisions? Innovation, trade, and economy are some of the things we *can* agree to cooperate about without too much trouble. Anyway, if politics is you beef, starving a country economically isn't a very good way to get them on your side - especially not when that country is engaged in an existential war - here in Israel, and trus me, no-one, and I mean no-one will change their support, or dissuport of the current struggle on the grounds of some pansy-assed self-riteous boycott on the part of all you european hypocrytes. All you do is simply worsen the economic condition of those citizens, and the non-citizens that depend on them and their economy utterly - in this case, the Palestinians.

In any event, I charge all of you to exhamine your purcahsing policies regarding issues appart from using air-strikes to defend your cities - abuse of children, abuse of human rights, monopolies, state-controlled everything dictatorships, etc. Why Europeans especially prick their holier-than-though do-good ears at anything Israel-related baffles me utterly. The inconsistency is glaring.

QFT

Apparently you are feeling backed into a corner and the only way you can get out of it is by using insults... and you say I am the immature one?

you said that anyone who is uneasy with the war or the way the IDF is prosecuting the war supports hezbollah. you then referred to the lebanonese people as 'evil and barbaric'

you are either a troll or not able to grasp some very basic concepts, either way, have you got anything to contribute to the discussion in hand?

practical ways to register disgust at a so called western democratic state butchering children and then blaming them for being there?

One does not lead on to the other.

You are correct, one does not lead to the other. But the way I phrased it, it was not a statement, but a question. As the possibility of supporting one side goes up significantly when you do not support the other side.

you said that anyone who is uneasy with the war or the way the IDF is prosecuting the war supports hezbollah. you then referred to the lebanonese people as 'evil and barbaric'

you are either a troll or not able to grasp some very basic concepts, either way, have you got anything to contribute to the discussion in hand?

practical ways to register disgust at a so called western democratic state butchering children and then blaming them for being there?

Actually, he was refering to the hezbollah as evil and barbaric. And your post is blatently more trolly then his.

Actually, the correct term is 500 civilians, many of which were probably in hezbollah but because they don't regularly wear uniforms they are classified as civilian.
Oh please. :rolleyes:

The corpses get photographed by journalists. Thanks to the national papers here, I get to have a great summary every day. Ambulance with a big hole in the dead centre of the red cross covering its roof? Bullseye!

Like most ME nations, the birth rate has been very high for years, and the number of minors is disproportionately high compared to the West. Kids make up half the population of Iraq for example, and more than half the population of the Palestinian Territories. You start artillery bombardment of places like that, its like shelling a playground.

Hezbollah and all those other organisations are not using civilians as human shields. It's a simple question of population density. The simple fact that millions of people are packed into landscapes a Soviet city planner would have considered overcrowded, means that the "human shield" effect is environmental, and not deliberate policy. Hezbollah has neither the freedom nor the opportunity to go out into a massive desert, cordon it off, and invite the world to have a go.

The problem lies with Israelis, who know perfectly well that this is the case, are indifferent to the results, but don't have the guts to admit it.

Israel are still very careless with their actions though.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11464360&postcount=80

you said that anyone who is uneasy with the war or the way the IDF is prosecuting the war supports hezbollah. you then referred to the lebanonese people as 'evil and barbaric'

you are either a troll or not able to grasp some very basic concepts, either way, have you got anything to contribute to the discussion in hand?

practical ways to register disgust at a so called western democratic state butchering children and then blaming them for being there?

First off, I did NOT state that if you don't support the IDF you support Hezbollah, second I said Hezbollah was 'evil and barbaric'. They are not attacking the civilians on purpose, if Hezbollah weren't such pussies and would fight the IDF on a stated battleground, the civilian death count would reduce to almost none. Except that is, for the Israeli civilians that Hezbollah is attacking on purpose.

Actually, he was refering to the hezbollah as evil and barbaric. And your post is blatently more trolly then his.

Thank you, for understanding what I was saying.

Boycotting a country whose policies you don't agree with is silly. Why should you punish economically a group of citizens that independently of any political action being taken in their country, are going about their buisnesses? In the case of Israel, why should you deny yourself a huge array of technologies that you take advantage of every single day (from drip tape for agriculture, to medical technology, to computer software) because you dissagree with their choice of govenment, or that government's decisions? Innovation, trade, and economy are some of the things we *can* agree to cooperate about without too much trouble. Anyway, if politics is you beef, starving a country economically isn't a very good way to get them on your side - especially not when that country is engaged in an existential war - here in Israel, and trus me, no-one, and I mean no-one will change their support, or dissuport of the current struggle on the grounds of some pansy-assed self-riteous boycott on the part of all you european hypocrytes. All you do is simply worsen the economic condition of those citizens, and the non-citizens that depend on them and their economy utterly - in this case, the Palestinians.

In any event, I charge all of you to exhamine your purcahsing policies regarding issues appart from using air-strikes to defend your cities - abuse of children, abuse of human rights, monopolies, state-controlled everything dictatorships, etc. Why Europeans especially prick their holier-than-thou do-good ears at anything Israel-related baffles me utterly. The inconsistency is glaring.

at last an intellegent post.

I don't think even the organisers of this campaign believe it will 'starve' Isreal economically, but allow people who still retain a sense of outrage at murder to play their part in standing up and saying no. Enough is enough. You want to be members of our club, the capitalist democratic west, start behaving appropriatley. and as you say, the majority of Israelis appear to support this fish in a barrell effort by the IDF and I will not hand over my hard earned cash to an economy that funds these actions and a society that deems them acceptible.

we dont trade with hamas and hezbollah, so while you try to lower yourselves to their standards, I choose not to trade with you. reason and human decency seem to be lost on the current isreali government, so maybe cold hard cash might be the answer

Oh please. :rolleyes:

The corpses get photographed by journalists. Thanks to the national papers here, I get to have a great summary every day. Ambulance with a big hole in the dead centre of the red cross covering its roof? Bullseye!


Would that be the same ambulance that was seen being loaded with rockets? :rolleyes:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11464360&postcount=80
I meant to comment on that post before, but got distracted. Good post. :)

Would that be the same ambulance that was seen being loaded with rockets? :rolleyes:
Source? Proof?

Do you mean this ambulance?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1828142,00.html

Oh please. :rolleyes:

The corpses get photographed by journalists. Thanks to the national papers here, I get to have a great summary every day. Ambulance with a big hole in the dead centre of the red cross covering its roof? Bullseye!

Like most ME nations, the birth rate has been very high for years, and the number of minors is disproportionately high compared to the West. Kids make up half the population of Iraq for example, and more than half the population of the Palestinian Territories. You start artillery bombardment of places like that, its like shelling a playground.

Hezbollah and all those other organisations are not using civilians as human shields. It's a simple question of population density. The simple fact that millions of people are packed into landscapes a Soviet city planner would have considered overcrowded, means that the "human shield" effect is environmental, and not deliberate policy. Hezbollah has neither the freedom nor the opportunity to go out into a massive desert, cordon it off, and invite the world to have a go.

The problem lies with Israelis, who know perfectly well that this is the case, are indifferent to the results, but don't have the guts to admit it.

TG, you could get a job doing propaganda for Hezbollah. :p

Source? Proof?

Do you mean this ambulance?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1828142,00.html

It was a question, not a statement of fact.

Would that be the same ambulance that was seen being loaded with rockets? :rolleyes:

source?


TG, you could get a job doing propaganda for Hezbollah. :p

grow up. its not a zero sum game despite your blinkered view of the world.

It was a question, not a statement of fact.
Then, no.

The Red Cross ambulance destroyed was not carrying munitions.

http://www.spitting-image.net/archives/images/ambulancia_libano25.jpg
http://www.spitting-image.net/archives/images/ambulancia2_libano25.jpg

at last an intellegent post.

I don't think even the organisers of this campaign believe it will 'starve' Isreal economically, but allow people who still retain a sense of outrage at murder to play their part in standing up and saying no. Enough is enough. You want to be members of our club, the capitalist democratic west, start behaving appropriatley. and as you say, the majority of Israelis appear to support this fish in a barrell effort by the IDF and I will not hand over my hard earned cash to an economy that funds these actions and a society that deems them acceptible.

we dont trade with hamas and hezbollah, so while you try to lower yourselves to their standards, I choose not to trade with you. reason and human decency seem to be lost on the current isreali government, so maybe cold hard cash might be the answerHezbollah and Hamas *have* nothing to trade with you. They are not functioning economies, they are orginizations that sustain themselves on outside donations and must justify their ongoing existence by killing a Jew once in a while. They carry out a self-sufficient cycle of employment for their members simply by existing, not by innovating or producing or trading. What negligable economies their places of origin do posses are efficiently brought to destruction through their violent antics.

This is totally unlike a country, Israel, which has a diverse and functioning economy and that, I assure you, even if you don't know it, has contributed to your modern existence in manifold forms. I only mentioned a couple examples. Why not express your outrage and dissent in a political way, not an economic one? Example: why should Philips, an international company that produces, among other things, sophisticated medical imaging equiptment in Haifa suffer because of this war? What does its inovation, and the talent of the Israelis that work for it have to do with the political situation? Go to rallies, write letters, but next time you need an CT scan, for god's sake, don't boycott the hospital.

source?




grow up. its not a zero sum game despite your blinkered view of the world.

In case you didn't get the point of Celtlund's statement, he was stating that Hezbollah uses civilian vehicles and residents as cover, thus making collateral damage almost inevitable. And they will frequently change objects, thus making a building, or a car that was one day harmful, not harmful when Israel strikes, or one day not harmful the next day it is.

grow up. its not a zero sum game despite your blinkered view of the world.

I was not being factious. He wrote an excellent post putting forth the Hezbollah point of view. I don't agree with any of it, but it was a great piece of propaganda.

Interesting that both these organizations sponsoring boycotts are located in nations that participated in the aggression against Iraq, which in its devastation far outweighs anything Israel has ever done to the Arabs.

Boycotts, for what it's worth, are pretty certain to be ineffective; they will only consolidate the already prevalent view among right-wing Israelis that most of the rest of the world blindly hates Jews and Israel and should be disregarded.

For every Israeli good you boycott, I'll buy 3.

Also how many of you boycotters want to stop using the Israeli-invented Instant Messenger systems?

I am with you, but i will go one better I will buy a dozen just to be on the safe side:cool:

Interesting that both these organizations sponsoring boycotts are located in nations that participated in the aggression against Iraq, which in its devastation far outweighs anything Israel has ever done to the Arabs.

Boycotts, for what it's worth, are pretty certain to be ineffective; they will only consolidate the already prevalent view among right-wing Israelis that most of the rest of the world blindly hates Jews and Israel and should be disregarded.

Honestly, the most of the world isn't out to get them. Just the Arab Muslim world. The Christian world doesn't mind Israel's existance that much, as we gave them the country. Israel is surrounded by people that hate them, and have for 2,000 years, and they probably always will. A ceasefire is not a way to solve the conflict. You take the guns away from the Terrorists, the Middle East becomes peaceful. You take the weapons away from Israel, the Jews get slaughtered.

I am with you, but i will go one better I will buy a dozen just to be on the safe side:cool:*whizzing of maddox reference going over H8t's head*

I was not being factious. He wrote an excellent post putting forth the Hezbollah point of view. I don't agree with any of it, but it was a great piece of propaganda.
:rolleyes:

It's the way things actually are over there. Look at some photos, an atlas, maybe some demographic info and use a calculator. Heh, the CIA factbook is a great place to start. Anyone who tries using divisional artillery in an urban environment where half the population is under 18, knows what is going to happen. Blast radius, anyone?

And of course the results will be beamed around the world.

Troublesome militia all over the third world have no difficulty admitting that they will target civilians. So why can't we in the West just admit that while we do not deliberately target civilians, we do not particularly care what is in the vicinity of a target? Like I said, I respect honesty. Hats off to the first Western official who says it at a press conference. But if you prefer their evasion because the full reality makes you feel uncomfortable, that's cool with me.

Go to the Kosher section of the supermarket. Most stuff has ISraeli origin. And it peaks around the holidays. Notably Rosh HAshanah is coming up.
oddly enough, i dont shop in the kosher section of the supermarket. im not jewish.

there wasnt anything on the list from big us that i buy so i guess i can't boycott israel and i AM boycotting israel at the same time.

i can feel righteously correct no matter whom i talk to!

oddly enough, i dont shop in the kosher section of the supermarket. im not jewish.

there wasnt anything on the list from big us that i buy so i guess i can't boycott israel and i AM boycotting israel at the same time.

i can feel righteously correct no matter whom i talk to!
Congratulations! I'm proud for ya. :D

No-one has answered my question: why don't you boycott every country whose policies you find problematic? What is it about Israel's wars of sel-defence that mobilize people in this manner when those same people don't bat an eyelash at slave labour, state-controlled press, and other types of opression? What makes war, and this is a war, more shocking than sustained, long-term, and widespread labour practices that amount to slavery? Those topics, also, are directly relevant to the production of goods and services, while this issue is not.

I would really like Kraft or Diney care, unless a whole important country boycotted them, I dont think we could make much of a difference.

And Co-Op own brand stuff, you must be kidding, we like Co-Ops they are local shops (for local people), you cant just boycott their things...

No-one has answered my question: why don't you boycott every country whose policies you find problematic? What is it about Israel's wars of sel-defence that mobilize people in this manner when those same people don't bat an eyelash at slave labour, state-controlled press, and other types of opression? What makes war, and this is a war, more shocking than sustained, long-term, and widespread labour practices that amount to slavery? Those topics, also, are directly relevant to the production of goods and services, while this issue is not.

Boycotting Israel is easier.

Boycotting Israel is easier.

Not really. "Made in Israel" doesn't feature on the bottom of many products. Probably around 99% of the world is already inadvertantly "boycotting" Israeli goods because of it. How can you deliberatly boycott something you're already boycotting?

First off, I did NOT state that if you don't support the IDF you support Hezbollah, second I said Hezbollah was 'evil and barbaric'. They are not attacking the civilians on purpose, if Hezbollah weren't such pussies and would fight the IDF on a stated battleground, the civilian death count would reduce to almost none. Except that is, for the Israeli civilians that Hezbollah is attacking on purpose.

But when the IDF faced them and took losses, they started this bombing campaign. And when they lost ground troops - yet more bombing.

How can you deliberatly boycott something you're already boycotting?

As I said, boycotting Israel is easier. It doesn't require much sacrifice.

Btw, good thread SR.

We should boycott Israeli products, especially agriculutural (e.g. foodstuffs). How can one be sure that a product originating in Israel was not grown on illegally occupied territory.

I personally avoid buying Israeli food.

You can also ring the Israeli Embassy in your country to complain about their government's actions. Of course, they won't really listen, but it does obstruct the work of their embassy due to the volume of phone calls. This was a popular way of protesting here in Sweden at the beginning of Israel's agression on Lebanon. There was an SMS campaign to ring Israel's embassy in Stockholm to protest.

No-one has answered my question: why don't you boycott every country whose policies you find problematic? What is it about Israel's wars of sel-defence that mobilize people in this manner when those same people don't bat an eyelash at slave labour, state-controlled press, and other types of opression? What makes war, and this is a war, more shocking than sustained, long-term, and widespread labour practices that amount to slavery? Those topics, also, are directly relevant to the production of goods and services, while this issue is not.
Uh, people already do.

For example, I would never buy a woman a diamond engagement ring on account of my objection to the role of slave labourers and mercenaries in the diamond industries of Africa. And I would be happy to explain this principled objection.

That's just one trivial little thing, there are a number of other goods and services I would not purchase, and there are plenty of other people who boycott other stuff because they take issues with specific situations and practices.

Someone said near the start of the thread that boycotts are ineffective and immature, but really, is there a purer expression of democracy than selectively witholding your private capital? It's right up there with casting a vote. Not everyone will agree with the decision, but it is a valid one, and the act itself is to be applauded. One individual's actions may not actually change anything, but that's not the point.

Someone said near the start of the thread that boycotts are ineffective...
I would tend to disagree with that outlook personally.

It worked on Capt. Boycott originally did it not?

http://www.bluestarpr.com/docs/www2_sm.jpg

Go ahead. I dare you to boycott Israel. If you truly want to do so, then uninstall your firewall, anti-virus, and Windows (maybe that last one isn't so bad:p ). PLease throw out your cell phones and get rid of your AIM. I seriously don't reccomend fulfilling your promise to boycott though. I wouldn't want to see any of you in bad health. After all, you would be denying yourself the best medical tests and equipment that may save your life some day.

Btw, good thread SR.
I would like to ask you to uninstall your AIM, Yahoo Messenger, and MSN Messenger, Windows, anti-virus, firewall, and I would like you to throw out your cell phone. If you don't then this makes you and all others calling for boycotts of Israel hipocrites.

Windows NT?

Believe me, I will not weep the loss of that. :mp5:

Someone said near the start of the thread that boycotts and ineffective and immature, but really, is there a purer expression of democracy than selectively witholding your private capital? It's right up there with casting a vote. Not everyone will agree with the decision, but it is a valid one, and the act itself is to be applauded.Those people who are aware and consistent I don't have too big a problem with. I havn't said that it isn't a valid decision - people have the perfect right to do what they like with their money.

I am simply questioning the political eficacy, and actual justice of such a measure in the case we're talking about, and commenting on the fact that Europeans find Israel is a quick and convenient weight with which to limber up their self-satisfaction muscles, without looking too much into it, or understanding why they do what they do. The periodical outrage and renewal of these 'boycott' campaigns every time something unfortunate happens just shows the shallow thougt process behind the campaigners and their targets- Israel's problems with her neigbors encompass more than dead children, and continue even when children are not dieing (not to sound horribly crude).

Windows NT?

Believe me, I will not weep the loss of that. :mp5:
I wouldn't blame you. I did post that maybe it wouldn't be a bad thing to get rid of WIndows. Unfortunately, compatability issues keep me on it.

snip
Sweet. I use none of that stuff anyway.

Was I boycotting Israel before? Not intentionally, but apparantly so.
Am I now? Not intentionally, but apparantly so.

Sweet. I use none of that stuff anyway.

Was I boycotting Israel before? Not intentionally, but apparantly so.
Am I now? Not intentionally, but apparantly so.
I'm sure you use a Pentium processor. If that is the case, you should remove the chip from your computer. I also doubt you will not have a cell phone at some point in your life. I recommend that you not buy one if you truly want to boycott Israel.

You life span will likely be somewhat shorter if you refuse Israeli medical innovations. I'm also sure that farmers who grew your food used many of the irrigation techniques developed by Israelis.

http://www.bluestarpr.com/docs/www2_sm.jpg

Go ahead. I dare you to boycott Israel. If you truly want to do so, then uninstall your firewall, anti-virus, and Windows (maybe that last one isn't so bad:p ). PLease throw out your cell phones and get rid of your AIM. I seriously don't reccomend fulfilling your promise to boycott though. I wouldn't want to see any of you in bad health. After all, you would be denying yourself the best medical tests and equipment that may save your life some day.
It's hardly a convincing report, just a graphic. For a start, I am sure that the Finns would have to say something about the claim on mobile telephones.

But yes, I am also aware that Israel does have an advanced high-tech sector.

I hear over and over "Bombing the Ambulances, how many have been bombed? One? Two Hundred, If I was an enemy soldier and I was fighting haeavly superior enemies, if Israeli forces were coming would I sit out in the open trying to get a good aim to blow up their tanks and soldiers or I would hide in an Ambulance, drive to a good position then hide in it and wait for soldiers to come by in order to kill them.

If I can think of it do you think Israel didn't think it could happen? For all they know those Ambulance passengers could have been some of those rockets needing some TLC at a launch site.

In fact an Ambulance would make a great improvised APC. And it comes with Free medical supplies. So would a bus. (3 Buses were blown up at the Syrian Border about a week ago, but no one got hurt.)

I am simply questioning the political eficacy, and actual justice of such a measure in the case we're talking about, and commenting on the fact that Europeans find Israel is a quick and convenient weight with which to limber up their self-satisfaction muscles, without looking too much into it, or understanding why they do what they do. The periodical outrage and renewal of these 'boycott' campaigns every time something unfortunate happens just shows the shallow thougt process behind the campaigners and their targets- Israel's problems with her neigbors encompass more than dead children, and continue even when children are not dieing (not to sound horribly crude).
I don't think the people who boycott stuff actually care about the effectiveness of their actions in the political arena. I certainly don't. I doubt there will be a statistically significant impact on the figures, certainly not when set against the fact that there are few shipping companies out there who would dock at Haifa these days, and few insurers who would pay out for a ship sailing willingly into a war zone where anti-shipping missiles are deployed, and getting owned.

So taking a global geopolitical view, of course you won't see the effects of personal boycotts. But there is no point measuring an action against a goal it is not intended to achieve.

I'm sure you use a Pentium processor.
Machine Model: iBook G4
CPU Type: PowerPC G4 (3.3)
CPU Speed: 800 MHz
Memory: 384 MB
Bus Speed: 133 MHz


I also doubt you will not have a cell phone at some point in your life.
Well, I don't know what a cell phone is, but my mobile has been on the blink for the past while, rendering is useless ;)

You life span will likely be somewhat shorter if you refuse Israeli medical innovations.
Why would I refuse it? :confused: At my age I hope my heart is just fine:eek:

I'm also sure that farmers who grew your food used many of the irrigation techniques developed by Israelis.
Nah, I'm pretty sure the Chinese influenced them more.:D

Source? Proof?

Do you mean this ambulance?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1828142,00.html

Wait two Ambulances just sitting all alone in the middle of nowhere at night? That's suspious looking to me.
A. A transfer of weapons
B. A tranfer of Troops
C. An Evac of a Terrorist leader.
D. Some random civilians switching ambulances?

I hear over and over "Bombing the Ambulances, how many have been bombed? One? Two Hundred, If I was an enemy soldier and I was fighting haeavly superior enemies, if Israeli forces were coming would I sit out in the open trying to get a good aim to blow up their tanks and soldiers or I would hide in an Ambulance, drive to a good position then hide in it and wait for soldiers to come by in order to kill them.

If I can think of it do you think Israel didn't think it could happen? For all they know those Ambulance passengers could have been some of those rockets needing some TLC at a launch site.

In fact an Ambulance would make a great improvised APC. And it comes with Free medical supplies. So would a bus. (3 Buses were blown up at the Syrian Border about a week ago, but no one got hurt.)

More than likely, an ambulence is going to have paramedics in it.

Machine Model: iBook G4
CPU Type: PowerPC G4 (3.3)
CPU Speed: 800 MHz
Memory: 384 MB
Bus Speed: 133 MHz While Apple is a better OS, your computer is weak. My Pentium 4 chip (developed in Eretz Yisrael) has 3.2 GHz and the newer ones are better.



Well, I don't know what a cell phone is, but my mobile has been on the blink for the past while, rendering is useless ;)
A cellular phone is a mobile phone. If you don't use it now, you will eventually.

Why would I refuse it? :confused: At my age I hope my heart is just fine:eek:
You will grow old one day. When that happens, you will turn your life over to Israeli technology should you wish to live a long life.

Nah, I'm pretty sure the Chinese influenced them more.:D [/quote]
The Israelis created most irrigation techniques now used by many farmers in deserts. (See the US SW)

More than likely, an ambulence is going to have paramedics in it.
And more than likely it isn't common for Rockets to be launched from Neighborhoods but that seems not to be the case in Lebanon.

In fact an Ambulance would make a great improvised APC. And it comes with Free medical supplies.
Except there were journalists at the scene to take photos and interview survivors.

The area is saturated with so many 24 hour rolling news reporters and story scouts, a soldier can't take a dump behind a bush without a news crew sticking a thermometer into it.

I am reminded of an Israeli army spokesman giving a live interview at the same time as an Israeli infantry officer on the front line, a couple of days ago. The spokesman said that some town was free of civilians, was occupied only by the enemy, and was going to be subjected to a ground offensive. The army officer was saying the town was full of civilians. The spokesman contradicting his own army on the ground, and the world press filming it live, in two places at once.

It is important to get the facts straight. Everything is going to be documented in this war.

Wait two Ambulances just sitting all alone in the middle of nowhere at night? That's suspious looking to me.
A. A transfer of weapons
B. A tranfer of Troops
C. An Evac of a Terrorist leader.
D. Some random civilians switching ambulances?
I take it you didn't really read the article:

Six ambulance workers were wounded and three generations of the Fawaz family, being transported to hospital from Tibnin with what were originally minor injuries, were left fighting for their lives.
...
By Nader Joudi's reckoning, the ambulances had been stopped for barely two minutes. Two patients had been loaded: Ahmed Mustafa Fawaz, who had been hit by shrapnel in the stomach, and his son, Mohammed, 14. The volunteer attendant was just easing Jamila Fawaz, 80, inside and setting up a drip when the missile struck.

http://www.bluestarpr.com/docs/www2_sm.jpg
Frankly, this graphic has NOTHING to do with the argument at hand.

We are talking about banning Israeli goods, not inventions.

Frankly, this graphic has NOTHING to do with the argument at hand.

We are talking about banning Israeli goods, not inventions.
IF the idiots who want to boycott Israel are serious about their cause, then they will boycott the inventions that are from Israel.

While Apple is a better OS, your computer is weak. My Pentium 4 chip (developed in Eretz Yisrael) has 3.2 GHz and the newer ones are better.
I never said it was good, I was saying what I use. I don't use Pentium.


A cellular phone is a mobile phone. If you don't use it now, you will eventually.
Well, I'm sure the Finns might have something to say about that. They're quite handy with that tech. too. ;)

You will grow old one day. When that happens, you will turn your life over to Israeli technology should you wish to live a long life.
Oh by the time I'm that old. I'm sure someone will have advanced tech well enough to make 'who did it' irrelevant now.


The Israelis created most irrigation techniques now used by many farmers in deserts. (See the US SW)
Emm... ok. I don't live near a desert, nor does my food come from one.

I never said it was good, I was saying what I use. I don't use Pentium.



Well, I'm sure the Finns might have something to say about that. They're quite handy with that tech. too. ;)


Oh by the time I'm that old. I'm sure someone will have advanced tech well enough to make 'who did it' irrelevant now.


Emm... ok. I don't live near a desert, nor does my food come from one.It would appear you are in a rare situation. 90+% of people use stuff from Israel. I am sure you have anti-virus and a firewall.

IF the idiots who want to boycott Israel are serious about their cause, then they will boycott the inventions that are from Israel.
...So, by your logic, if we want to protest African government, we would have to stop wearing clothes (since Africa is considered the cradle of hunter-gatherer society, and is where clothes came from)

And if you wanted to protest Palestine, you'd have to hunt and gather your own food! After all, it's in the heart of the Fertile Crescent, where agriculture was invented.

It would appear you are in a rare situation. 90+% of people use stuff from Israel. I am sure you have anti-virus and a firewall.

im sorry, are you claiming ALL mobile phones, intel chips, firewalls and antivirus software as Israeli?

Pull the other one.

I think the point is paying for stuff, rather than using it.

Who pays for software these days? :p

I think the point is paying for stuff, rather than using it.

Who pays for software these days? :p

Exactly. Give Israel the finger by going Linux...

im sorry, are you claiming ALL mobile phones, intel chips, firewalls and antivirus software as Israeli?

Pull the other one.
They were all invented by Israelis. To say otherwise would make you a liar.

I take it you didn't really read the article:

It takes a jet maybe 5 minutes to cross all of Israel, those two minutes the pilot could have just seen them in that two minutes, in that case it's a matter of horrible timing as well as a horrible thing to happen. I'm not saying that Israel was in the 'Right' about this, I'm just saying I can see some sort of logic behind the attack. To Israel, NOTHING is just Innocent and everything could possibly be something to kill them.

"Those two Ambulances are moving something back and forth in the middle of the night, this might be are chance to take out a high ranker." *BOOM*
"Is that a mound of dirt or a tunnel entrance?" *BOOM*
"That car is moving very slowly, IS THAT GUY LOOKING AT ME?" *BOOM*
"A bunch of Buses? Going to get Reinforcements? Not on my watch!" *BOOM*
"There's too many people at that UN place, Hezbollah must have taken it over." *BOOM*

Those damn rockets are here somewhere, wait that's a large building, and the rockets have been coming from nearby, must be the supply place." *BOOM*
Ooops...
Damn......
uh Sorry?
(A little late now)

They were all invented by Israelis. To say otherwise would make you a liar.

hold on. the mobile phone. the computer chip. the firewall. the anti-virus software, irrigation. they were ALL invented in Isreal?

Not specific brands or models? Every single one of them? Just to be clear

I don't think that Israel should be boycotted. Many Israelis are not pro-war, and I don't want to punish them.

But, I know the tree-hugging, bleeding-hearts will disagree, and that is their choice.
What's wrong with having compassion for innocent people? May God have mercy on you for lacking it.

From what I have seen, there is a quiet boycott going on. The Israeli origin fruit, dates, etc just keeps piling up in the supermarket, while the Spanish, Turkish and Iranian alternatives are selling very well. Naturally I am adding to that. Checking a label takes an extra couple of seconds of your time.
In that case you should boycott Iranian stuff as well.

Israel is defending itself. The morrally repungnat ones are Hezbollah.
Thou shalt not kill. Read it. Israel kills ten times as much ppl as Hezbollah.

With Israel intentionally killing the Palestinian economy, I doubt you can find any products from there.

Not really, when you consider their alternatives. They are in a defensive mode. When you are surrounded by people that hate you, and don't believe you should exist, you need to lash out with the harshest retaliation that you can.
No. Why? You should reach out in forgiveness and show your enemies that you are not evil as they think. Israel's way is making them more enemies.

I never said that you couldn't disagree with me, in fact I said that you probably would. The Lebanese people are not innocent, they could have risen up to their government and said "Enough is enough you $#!T heads!" There is no way Hezbollah could take on that many people.
Pure ignorance! The Lebanese government is weak, for it is a fledgling democracy. I blame Syria, which more or less ruled Lebanon until 2005, for not stopping Hezbollah. The Syrians wouldn't listen to the Lebanese.

I think that Hezbollah could take them on anyway. They're taking on Israel quite successfully.

Actually, the correct term is 500 civilians, many of which were probably in hezbollah
Groundless assertions to ease your conscience!

And also, the Civilian deaths in Lebanon are not intentional, Israel is not trying to kill civilians, unlike Hezbollah who is launching rockets into Israel to try and get a lucky shot and kill one or two Israelis. If that isn't a terrorist group I don't know what is.
They're both terrorists. Proportionately Israel has killed a higher percentage of civilians than Hezbollah.

I mean no-one will change their support, or dissuport of the current struggle on the grounds of some pansy-assed self-riteous boycott on the part of all you european hypocrytes.

Europeans don't abuse human rights.

hold on. the mobile phone. the computer chip. the firewall. the anti-virus software, irrigation. they were ALL invented in Isreal?

Not specific brands or models? Every single one of them? Just to be clear
Drip irrigation was DEFINITELY not invented by Israel, since it was used in ancient times. It was even used by Germany in the 1860s.

The computer chip was first theorized by an Englishman, and developed by two American TI workers. (A lot of people don't use that Pentium chip anyway. Go ATI!)

The firewall was first developed by Jeff Mogul of Digital Equipment Corp. Most generations of firewall have been developed by Americans (Sorry, Brits).

The first anti-virus software was created by Dr. Peter Tippet in 1981.

the first 'radio phones' were available in 1940, that predates Isreal.

the first commercially available mobile phone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_mobile_phones) was a Motorola (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_DynaTAC) phone, which is of course an American company.

the first roaming free network was in Saudi Arabia. You claiming that one too?

this extensive industry journal history of the cellular phone fails to mention Israel once (http://www.sri.com/policy/csted/reports/sandt/techin2/chp4.html)

I wont even bother with the rest of your ludicriuos claims.

Foreign nationals
Seven Canadian members of a family from Montreal, including four children, were killed and six severely injured by an Israeli attack on Aitaroun in South Lebanon on 16 July. An eighth member of the family died later from injuries sustained in the blast.[114]
A family of four Brazilians, including two children, was killed in the Israeli bombings in Srifa,[115] drawing condemnation from foreign relations minister Celso Amorim.[116] Another Brazilian child was killed in an Israeli strike in Tallousa.[117]
Four members of a German-Lebanese family, including two minors, from Mönchengladbach, Germany were killed in an Israeli airstrike in Chehour in southern Lebanon while on vacation.[118][119]
The Kuwaiti Foreign Ministry has reported that two Kuwaiti nationals have been killed by Israeli bombing.[120]
One Sri Lankan the source indicates they are UNIFIL civilian staff, and there is no evidence that a second Nigerian couple was killed was killed in an Israeli bombing.[113]
One Iraqi was killed by Israeli bombing.[113]
One Jordanian was killed when Israeli missiles hit trucks near Zahleh in the mountains above the eastern Bekaa Valley.[113]
A Brazilian businessman was killed in an IAF missile attack on a factory he owned in Lebanon.[121]
A Palestinian was killed in an Israeli bombing that hit a Palestinian refugee camp at Rashidiyeh.
A Nigerian domestic worker was killed during an airstrike as he rode his motorbike south of Tyre on 27 July.[123]
An Indian glass factory worker in Lebanon, Devendra Kumar Swain was killed on 21 July.[124]



All Isreal Bombings

I think boycotting the produce of a country whose actions I find morally repugnant is a mature and sensible approach.

Good comeback though, well thought out.Have fun trying to boycott Chinese products. Unless of course, you don't find the beating of government critics into a coma as morally repugnant.

I would like to ask you to uninstall your AIM, Yahoo Messenger, and MSN Messenger, Windows, anti-virus, firewall, and I would like you to throw out your cell phone. If you don't then this makes you and all others calling for boycotts of Israel hipocrites.

Oddly enough, I'm possibly one of the few in the Western World that does not have a mobile. Not for reasons of politick, but because I couldnt be arsed with the things. The rest may have origins in Israel, but its by dodging the agricultural produce you can effect cash. And even if it makes them think "why are those bastards boycotting us?" it might get a few brains working.


In case you didn't get the point of Celtlund's statement, he was stating that Hezbollah uses civilian vehicles and residents as cover, thus making collateral damage almost inevitable.

According to Israel.


I don't think that Israel should be boycotted. Many Israelis are not pro-war, and I don't want to punish them..

Nobody dies.

Secondly, they've been occupying the West Bank for 40 years. It needs to stop. If you have another idea, lets hear it.


Europeans don't abuse human rights...

Dublin/monaghan bombings, internment, castlerea detention centre, knowing about "extraordinary rendition" and doing nothing. And thats what having a big think about it.

Oddly enough, I'm possibly one of the few in the Western World that does not have a mobile.
I'm not the only one!!!

I'm not the only one!!!

Ave, Frater. There are not many of us, I'd say.

Nobody dies.

Secondly, they've been occupying the West Bank for 40 years. It needs to stop. If you have another idea, lets hear it.
Boycotting them won't stop them. What must be done is that the supply of weapons to both sides of the conflict by major powers such as the USA, Syria and Iran must stop. The wall must come down. Both sides must stop being bigots.

Dublin/monaghan bombings, internment, castlerea detention centre, knowing about "extraordinary rendition" and doing nothing. And thats what having a big think about it.
Not all of them are even sanctioned by a government. None of them compare with the actions of the IDF, or Hezbollah for that matter.

Look at all the Hezz/Hadj that are after israel and hating them. If Israel didn't exist, they'd be after the US.

I, for one, support Israel and I will continue to support them when I can as a fellow Jew and as a victim of islamofascists. I buy IDF t shirts, I buy IDF Q3131A 5.56 Ammo made by Israeli Military Industries, I buy products made in Israel.

I am also a member of the Jew Crew.

Look at all the Hezz/Hadj that are after israel and hating them. If Israel didn't exist, they'd be after the US.
Oh yeah? And why would they be after the US?

Look at all the Hezz/Hadj that are after israel and hating them. If Israel didn't exist, they'd be after the US.

I, for one, support Israel and I will continue to support them when I can as a fellow Jew and as a victim of islamofascists. I buy IDF t shirts, I buy IDF Q3131A 5.56 Ammo made by Israeli Military Industries, I buy products made in Israel.

I am also a member of the Jew Crew.

but you arent actually jewish..... and how exactly are you of all people a 'victim of islamofacists'?

and hamas and hezbollah are localised groups, neither of which have ever threatened pyhsically or verbally the US.

I am also a member of the Jew Crew.You mean the one that currently has only one member?

Oh yeah? And why would they be after the US?

Umm....9/11....Hamas....Hezbollah....Israel....

Just to jot your memory. The Palis still hate the US, but not as much as Israel because Israel was the true first hatred.

but you arent actually jewish..... and how exactly are you of all people a 'victim of islamofacists'?

and hamas and hezbollah are localised groups, neither of which have ever threatened pyhsically or verbally the US.

Yes, I'm jewish. I am also an American. What happened a few years back? Oh yeah, September 11th, 2001. 19 murderous rat bastards sons of whores hijacked 4 planes, destroyed 2 of my nation's most important financial building, hit a Military building, and killed 3000 or so.

And then of course, there's Israel......dealing with Hezz, Hamas, and all that for a long time.

Umm....9/11....Hamas....Hezbollah....Israel....

Just to jot your memory. The Palis still hate the US, but not as much as Israel because Israel was the true first hatred.



Yes, I'm jewish. I am also an American. What happened a few years back? Oh yeah, September 11th, 2001. 19 murderous rat bastards sons of whores hijacked 4 planes, destroyed 2 of my nation's most important financial building, hit a Military building, and killed 3000 or so.

And then of course, there's Israel......dealing with Hezz, Hamas, and all that for a long time.

you described yourself as a christian jew on another thread.

how many of the 911 hijackers were Leabanese or Palestinian? 0

when have hamas or hezbollah attacked american interests outside of Lebanon itself?

the Palestinans distrust americans because its american kit that gets dropped on them by the IDF and because of the billions you give the isrealis. but they have never attacked you or ever attempted to.

Umm....9/11....Hamas....Hezbollah....Israel....

Just to jot your memory. The Palis still hate the US, but not as much as Israel because Israel was the true first hatred.

It's the US role in the creation of the Israeli State that made the Arab community angry at us in the first place.

Therefore No Israel = No pissed off Arabs.

It's the US role in the creation of the Israeli State that made the Arab community angry at us in the first place.

Therefore No Israel = No pissed off Arabs.The US had no role in the creation of the Israeli state.

The US had no role in the creation of the Israeli state.
The UN did. The UN itself was spawned from the Allies, and the US was, at the time of Israel's creation, the figurehead of the UN.

It's the US role in the creation of the Israeli State that made the Arab community angry at us in the first place.

Therefore No Israel = No pissed off Arabs.

We didn't have anything to do with the creation of Israel.

It was Britain.

And the arabs can go off to a corner and know themselves, Israel fought on the rightside for the Brits in WW2 and earned themselves a state, and had that not have happened, they were PROMISED a homeland someday by God. And strangely, it happened!

The UN did. The UN itself was spawned from the Allies, and the US was, at the time of Israel's creation, the figurehead of the UN.

Did the Us create the Balfour declaration?

:confused:

Did the Us create the Balfour declaration?

:confused:
...I jhave no I dea.
I have no idea. I'm tired, leave me alone.

Look at all the Hezz/Hadj that are after israel and hating them. If Israel didn't exist, they'd be after the US.

Or, more than likely, they wouldn't exist.

you described yourself as a christian jew on another thread.

how many of the 911 hijackers were Leabanese or Palestinian? 0

when have hamas or hezbollah attacked american interests outside of Lebanon itself?

the Palestinans distrust americans because its american kit that gets dropped on them by the IDF and because of the billions you give the isrealis. but they have never attacked you or ever attempted to.

That's because, like I said, they're too busy attacking Israel to attack us. Good. The Israelis had better work for every dollar we send to them, and they are a MAGNET for AQ/Hadj/hezz. They also make good use of those dollars by killing radical islamists-something Israel and I can ALWAYS see eye to eye on.

It is illegal to boycott Israel inside the United States with a possible jail term up to 10 years.

http://www.bis.doc.gov/AntiboycottCompliance/OACRequirements.html

In that case you should boycott Iranian stuff as well.
I'm sure I'm will, I'm just waiting for confirmation that the Iranian air force has showed up over Lebanese airspace. Once I hear that, I will buy the less appealing Turkish figs and dates instead. :)

Or, more than likely, they wouldn't exist.

Hmm.

Food for thought.

But they would exist eventually, and thus you'd have the 3 wars, the pali terror groups, and the entire timeline would be shifted back a few years, that's it.

It is illegal to boycott Israel inside the United States with a possible jail term up to 10 years.

http://www.bis.doc.gov/AntiboycottCompliance/OACRequirements.html
That applies to corporations, not private citizens.

That applies to corporations, not private citizens.

"The antiboycott provisions of the Export Administration Regulations (EAR) apply to all "U.S. persons," defined to include individuals and companies located in the United States and their foreign affiliates."

Yes, I'm jewish.
But...
I am a Christian, and I despise Fred PHELPS. I support the thread maker.
Did you convert in the past 3 weeks, in order to "support Israel"?

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=11268681#post11268681

I'm sure I'm will, I'm just waiting for confirmation that the Iranian air force has showed up over Lebanese airspace. Once I hear that, I will buy the less appealing Turkish figs and dates instead. :)
Iran, which financially and militarily supports Hezbollah, and commits very widespread human rights abuse within her own borders.

But...

Did you convert in the past 3 weeks, in order to "support Israel"?

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=11268681#post11268681


'Jewish' can also be an ethnic group, so maybe he's an ethnic jew but follows the christian faith.

That's because, like I said, they're too busy attacking Israel to attack us. Good. The Israelis had better work for every dollar we send to them, and they are a MAGNET for AQ/Hadj/hezz. They also make good use of those dollars by killing radical islamists-something Israel and I can ALWAYS see eye to eye on.

there has never been any Al-Queada activity in Isreal, Lebanon or the Palestine.

You arent making any sense. Are you somehow comparing the dispute over land Isreal and Hamas have and the defensive stance that subverts the Lebanese army that Hizbollah are taking?

What has any of this got to do with 9/11?

and with friends like you DM, the Israelis are fucked

"The antiboycott provisions of the Export Administration Regulations (EAR) apply to all "U.S. persons," defined to include individuals and companies located in the United States and their foreign affiliates."
Well, good luck enforcing that. :D

Reminds me of the Catch-22 joke about a farmer who became rich from government incentives not to grow alfalfa, only to go bankrupt after attempting to diversify into not growing tobacco.

Kinda difficult to prove a malicious absence of something.

Iran, which financially and militarily supports Hezbollah, and commits very widespread human rights abuse within her own borders.
Hey, like I said, I'm good to go. I just want to see Iranian military assets with Iranian markings rolling / flying through the area before I boycott them. I'm not too bothered where they buy their stuff - the OEMs are obviously Russia and China, so I'll wait until I see actual shooting war involvement. ;)

sigh.... reminds me of that old proverb.... One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. its all in the perspective. (Not that i condone terrorist activities but both sides are involved in this. you cant just have a myopic view on this subject.):(

But...

Did you convert in the past 3 weeks, in order to "support Israel"?

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=11268681#post11268681

No, you are mistaking jewish ethnicity with Judaism.

I am of Jewish ethnicity and of Christian Faith. Arr, I'm a mongrel.

The UN did. The UN itself was spawned from the Allies, and the US was, at the time of Israel's creation, the figurehead of the UN.Is that why the US was so opposed to Israel during the earlier times of its existence, such as the Suez Crisis. The US was hardly as pro-Israel during the earlier days.

Hey, like I said, I'm good to go. I just want to see Iranian military assets with Iranian markings rolling / flying through the area before I boycott them. I'm not too bothered where they buy their stuff - the OEMs are obviously Russia and China, so I'll wait until I see actual shooting war involvement. ;)

They hang gay people over there.

That'll get some people in a tizzy-war for gay people? ;)

there has never been any Al-Queada activity in Isreal, Lebanon or the Palestine.

You arent making any sense. Are you somehow comparing the dispute over land Isreal and Hamas have and the defensive stance that subverts the Lebanese army that Hizbollah are taking?

What has any of this got to do with 9/11?

and with friends like you DM, the Israelis are fucked

Umm...yeah....

You have lost me.

It's only fair, however, that we let the Izzys take care of them. But not like we could, anyways, they'd refuse our help. It's an Izzy problem, although we do have vested interests-Iran is controlling Hezz and using them to attack Israel.....

AQ, Hezz, and Hamas are terrorist groups. One attacked us, much like Pearl harbor-we declared war on the one, the others will attack us too. Sort of like the Axis, with AQ, Hamas, Hezz, and the others being the Axis and the US, GB, Aus, Israel, Poland, and other Pro-US countries being the Allies.

I just read the 9 posts and wow LNI and The SR you guys know how to make a comeback

Umm...yeah....

You have lost me.

It's only fair, however, that we let the Izzys take care of them. But not like we could, anyways, they'd refuse our help. It's an Izzy problem, although we do have vested interests-Iran is controlling Hezz and using them to attack Israel.....

AQ, Hezz, and Hamas are terrorist groups. One attacked us, much like Pearl harbor-we declared war on the one, the others will attack us too. Sort of like the Axis, with AQ, Hamas, Hezz, and the others being the Axis and the US, GB, Aus, Israel, Poland, and other Pro-US countries being the Allies.

im sure i have lost you.

why have the 'others' ie hamas and hezbollah never attacked you and al-Q never attacked Israel?

connecting groups on the basis of their religion does not mean they are all uniform in what they are fighting for, no matter how much you simplfy things to yourself?

anyway, another thread goes awry.

Boycott Isreali Goods, put a dent in their GDP till they act civilised.

dammit The SR you're really really good at comebacks

Maldorians, why are you being a prick?

im sure i have lost you.

why have the 'others' ie hamas and hezbollah never attacked you and al-Q never attacked Israel?

connecting groups on the basis of their religion does not mean they are all uniform in what they are fighting for, no matter how much you simplfy things to yourself?

anyway, another thread goes awry.

Boycott Isreali Goods, put a dent in their GDP till they act civilised.


Hi, I've just been superficially looking over this thread, so this may be a stupid question: what are the principles for a boycott? I don't just just mean in this instant, but in all cases. What has Israel done that we can compare to some priciples and say, "yes, you've broken this principle." I mean, a lot of people boycotted South African goods during apartheid. What is similar between that case and this one. If you could tell me. then may be we have found a principle that we can follow that allows us to state, "country x ought to be boycotted".

i just dont know how you make such good comebacks?

Edit:haha Leapord whatever your name is

i just dont know how you make such good comebacks?Or you're not aware that you're spamming?

Or you're not aware that you're spamming?

or you're not aware that you're spamming.

Boycott Israeli Goods Britain (http://www.bigcampaign.org/)

and


B.I.G US (http://www.boycottisraeligoods.org/modules11748.php)

At least now those of us disgusted by all those dead children can get organised and try and do our bit.

And before the predictibale response comes, I dont buy any Hezzbollah produce either.


I am doing my bit by supporting this just campaign. Israel is right in taking out hezbollah as nobody else will. I will step it up by buying more Israeli goods.

or your not aware that you're spamming.I was merely pointing out that he might be spamming. Posting the same one-liner three times in a row adds nothing to debate.

I was merely pointing out that he might be spamming. Posting the same one-liner three times in a row adds nothing to debate.

nor does this. We can on forever -- this is a recursive problem and I'm determined to make it so.

I'd boycott Hezbollah's goods... if they had any. All they do is destroy stuff.
Anyway, if you disagree with Israel's government, why are you trying to hurt their civilians?
Your loss for giving up Israeli dates;)

Boycott Israeli Goods Britain (http://www.bigcampaign.org/)

and


B.I.G US (http://www.boycottisraeligoods.org/modules11748.php)

At least now those of us disgusted by all those dead children can get organised and try and do our bit.

And before the predictibale response comes, I dont buy any Hezzbollah produce either.
LOL
I'll do my part. As a US soldier, I promise that when US troops are sent in, I won't kill any innocent Lebanese citizens on pupose. With an Uzi, at least.

I am doing my bit by supporting this just campaign. Israel is right in taking out hezbollah as nobody else will. I will step it up by buying more Israeli goods.Do you mind that they're taking it out on the Lebanese population in the process?

im sure i have lost you.

why have the 'others' ie hamas and hezbollah never attacked you and al-Q never attacked Israel?

connecting groups on the basis of their religion does not mean they are all uniform in what they are fighting for, no matter how much you simplfy things to yourself?

anyway, another thread goes awry.

Boycott Isreali Goods, put a dent in their GDP till they act civilised.
You know, if you want to insult someone else's intelligence, proper grammer and spelling helps. You look like less of an asshole.

Honestly, Israeli, it's not that hard, and its the name of a COUNTRY.

Do you mind that they're taking it out on the Lebanese population in the process?
If the Lebanese population supports Hezbollah, which they must, since they haven't acted to remove it, then I suppose they'll get what they get. Especially since Israel faces an enemy the hides among the civvies like a coward, and therefore brings on those civilian casualties. The only other thing for Israel to do would be to ignore the rockets that keep hitting them.

You know, if you want to insult someone else's intelligence, proper grammer and spelling helps. You look like less of an asshole.

Honestly, Israeli, it's not that hard, and its the name of a COUNTRY.

Grammar is spelt with an "a".

Hezbollah is sort of using the Lebanese as a human shield. In a way, they're the ones actually killing them...

Anyways, if you disagree with Israel's government, why are you trying to hurt their civilians?No idea why some people think that trade sanctions are a good way to punish a government. Hasn't done that much against Castro, and Saddam himself seemed to be doing fine.
Anyways, your loss for giving up Israeli dates;)I hate those kinds of dates :p

Hezbollah is sort of using the Lebanese as a human shield. In a way, they're the ones actually killing them...For some instances that is true. However, Hezbullah can hardly be blamed for the deaths that the blockade is causing due to ensuing food, water, and medicine shortages.

Hezbollah is sort of using the Lebanese as a human shield. In a way, they're the ones actually killing them...
Sorry, but if a bank robber has a gun to a hostage's head and a cop shoots the hostage dead, its the cop who gets pulled up on murder.

Sorry, but if a bank robber has a gun to a hostage's head and a cop shoots the hostage dead, its the cop who gets pulled up on murder.
But it's the bank robber's fault.

Do you mind that they're taking it out on the Lebanese population in the process?


Nope. Hezbollah has to go and the people need to turn on them.

Nope. Hezbollah has to go and the people need to turn on them.I see.

Nope. Hezbollah has to go and the people need to turn on them.
I disagree.... but I still don't think it's Israel's fault.

Sorry, but if a bank robber has a gun to a hostage's head and a cop shoots the hostage dead, its the cop who gets pulled up on murder.

Actually, according to international law, if Hezbollah is using human shields, and they get killed by the IDF, it's Hezbollah's fault. And they don't really have a choice do they? According to your logic, Hezbollah need not fear repercussions so long as they keep firing missiles from blocks of flats.

linky?

For every Israeli good you boycott, I'll buy 3.I was going to buy a Motorola Cell.. Now I am going to buy another brand..

so now you need to buy 3 motorola cell phones..

BTW.. wich soda corps are in bed with them Coke or Pepsi?

I don't think the people who boycott stuff actually care about the effectiveness of their actions in the political arena. I certainly don't. I doubt there will be a statistically significant impact on the figures, certainly not when set against the fact that there are few shipping companies out there who would dock at Haifa these days, and few insurers who would pay out for a ship sailing willingly into a war zone where anti-shipping missiles are deployed, and getting owned.

So taking a global geopolitical view, of course you won't see the effects of personal boycotts. But there is no point measuring an action against a goal it is not intended to achieve.Then, what is the purpose of your personal action? If it isn't political, what the heck is it? The only alternative I can think of is to punish regular hardworking people, which doesn't make that much sense.

Boycott Israeli Goods Britain (http://www.bigcampaign.org/)

and


B.I.G US (http://www.boycottisraeligoods.org/modules11748.php)

At least now those of us disgusted by all those dead children can get organised and try and do our bit.

And before the predictibale response comes, I dont buy any Hezzbollah produce either.


None of this is Israeli aggression.

Hezbollah fired first.

According to the UN, Hezbollah uses civilians as human shields and brags about it.

There's a video of Hez firing rockets from that building in Qana - they must have put the kids in the same building.

I dont think I use any of that stuff anyway...

Actually, according to international law, if Hezbollah is using human shields, and they get killed by the IDF, it's Hezbollah's fault. And they don't really have a choice do they? According to your logic, Hezbollah need not fear repercussions so long as they keep firing missiles from blocks of flats.

How do you fire a missile from a house?

http://www.bubbleshare.com/album/51546/1515582/overview

I see a bunch of dead children, but no rockets.

http://tvnewslies.org/html/the_israel_you_don_t_see_on_th.html

You know what? I hope they release the 2 soldiers. Then we can see what pathetic excuse Israel gives to continue the massacre.

You know what? I hope they release the 2 soldiers. Then we can see what pathetic excuse Israel gives to continue the massacre.



Probibly the continued rain of missiles and rockets comming from lebanon and hezbollah that every day kill and wound Israeli civilians and have forced to displacement of their northern poulation....othrer than that NO REASON .:rolleyes:

Nope. Hezbollah has to go and the people need to turn on them.and if women and children do not "turn on them".. we keep killing them???

I see.. its the old/new YOU ARE WITH US OR AGAINST US sith mentality all over again.

sad people.

and if women and children do not "turn on them".. we keep killing them???

I see.. its the old/new YOU ARE WITH US OR AGAINST US sith mentality all over again.

sad people.


Hey spaz..what about the " men " why dont they turn on them to protect their women and children from being used as humman fodder for TV news ?

I guess there are NO ' Men " that have what it takes to stand up to hezbollah to protect the women and children in Lebenon..or are they ALL hezbollah or cowards ?

Probibly the continued rain of missiles and rockets comming from lebanon and hezbollah that every day kill and wound Israeli civilians and have forced to displacement of their northern poulation....othrer than that NO REASON .:rolleyes:

Oh you mean the retalliation for the Israel invasion of Lebanon? Or perhaps you would like to explain the other Qana massacre?

Qana, in the hills east of the southern port city of Tyre, has a bloody history. In 1996, Israeli artillery killed more than 100 civilians who had taken refuge at a U.N. base in the village. That attack sparked an international outcry that helped end an Israeli offensive.

Funny how you people immediately say Israel can defend itself, but when someone else fires missiles in as retalliation its a terrorist attack. Give me a fucking break.

Hey spaz..what about the " men " why dont they turn on them to protect their women and children from being used as humman fodder for TV news ?

I guess there are NO ' Men " that have what it takes to stand up to hezbollah to protect the women and children in Lebenon..or are they ALL hezbollah or cowards ?

Maybe that bullshit that Israel spews ISNT REALLY HAPPENING.

Oh you mean the retalliation for the Israel invasion of Lebanon? Or perhaps you would like to explain the other Qana massacre?



Funny how you people immediately say Israel can defend itself, but when someone else fires missiles in as retalliation its a terrorist attack. Give me a fucking break.


That was 1996 another war another time and anotherr reason WHY hezbollah must be removed from Lebanon.

its simple really ...do not attack Israel and Israel will be happy to leave you to yourselves .

Or are you too dopy and fulled with propaganda and leftist radical ideals to be able to determine that one simple but overwhelming fact .

Leave Israel alone and there is NO news .

Boycott Israeli Goods Britain (http://www.bigcampaign.org/)

and


B.I.G US (http://www.boycottisraeligoods.org/modules11748.php)

At least now those of us disgusted by all those dead children can get organised and try and do our bit.

And before the predictibale response comes, I dont buy any Hezzbollah produce either.


How is this not spam?

At any rate I'm going to buy double the Israeli goods now.

How do you fire a missile from a house?

Maybe you should have watched the surveillance video.

It was EXTREMELY clear that the rockets were being fired from that site in Qana.

Many rockets.

Apparently, the three story building that blew up contained extra rockets, which also blew up when the building collapsed - what a good idea it was to house rockets and children in the same building...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wunleashed
I never said that you couldn't disagree with me, in fact I said that you probably would. The Lebanese people are not innocent, they could have risen up to their government and said "Enough is enough you $#!T heads!" There is no way Hezbollah could take on that many people.

Pure ignorance! The Lebanese government is weak, for it is a fledgling democracy. I blame Syria, which more or less ruled Lebanon until 2005, for not stopping Hezbollah. The Syrians wouldn't listen to the Lebanese.

I think that Hezbollah could take them on anyway. They're taking on Israel quite successfully.
________________________________________________________________

Hezbollah is taking Israel on by hiding in ditches, and then using HUMAN SHIELDS to protect themselfs, and then by doing that, Israel might accidently kill a civilian in the crossfire.

Then, what is the purpose of your personal action?
What is the purpose of free speech if no-one listens? ;)

A boycott is an end in itself. It is a personal expression of disapproval which is still worth making even if relatively few people care. You might as well ask, why do people buy bumper stickers, or wear slogan t-shirts? They don't change the world either, but they are valid forms of self-expression.

Maybe you should have watched the surveillance video.

It was EXTREMELY clear that the rockets were being fired from that site in Qana.

Many rockets.

Apparently, the three story building that blew up contained extra rockets, which also blew up when the building collapsed - what a good idea it was to house rockets and children in the same building...

Yeah I hear refugee camps are being armed with rocket launchers nowadays. Come on.

Maybe you should have watched the surveillance video.

It was EXTREMELY clear that the rockets were being fired from that site in Qana.

Funny you should say that actually. I was watching the beloved pappy of 24hr tabloid news stations (not in the US), that is SKY News (at approx. 13.50GMT in case anyone else was watching) and the military expert/analyst they hire in from time to time (Francis Tusa) examined that video.

He looked at the video showing the rockets being fired (A) and the video showing the IAF strike hitting (B). He concluded: the building in (A) was not the same as the builing as in (B).

Ooops!

Funny you should say that actually. I was watching the beloved pappy of 24hr tabloid news stations (not in the US), that is SKY News (at approx. 13.50GMT in case anyone else was watching) and the military expert/analyst they hire in from time to time (Francis Tusa) examined that video.

He looked at the video showing the rockets being fired (A) and the video showing the IAF strike hitting (B). He concluded: the building in (A) was not the same as the builing as in (B).

Ooops!

If you can find a link for that that would be great.

If you can find a link for that that would be great.
Sadly, it's a non internet piece. I'm sure it will be repeated ad nauseum on Sky- with shiny graphics! :eek:

Boycotting them won't stop them. What must be done is that the supply of weapons to both sides of the conflict by major powers such as the USA, Syria and Iran must stop. The wall must come down. Both sides must stop being bigots..

Part of a boycott is attacking the economics, which hinders the purchase of weapons.


Not all of them are even sanctioned by a government. None of them compare with the actions of the IDF, or Hezbollah for that matter.

The Dublin/Monaghan bombings killed around 30 people and yes, they were sponsored by a government. Castlerea detention center was run by the RUC and thus government sanctioned. Internment was a government idea, and the governments of europe showed a blind eye to extraordinary rendition.


Yes, I'm jewish. ..

Just for the record, you said you were a "christian jew". That makes no sense.


Israel fought on the rightside for the Brits in WW2 and earned themselves a state, ..

Actually a good many of them were fighting against the Brits during WW2 in palestine and besides, the Arabs fought for the Brits in WW1 and they were promised independence.

Sadly, it's a non internet piece. I'm sure it will be repeated ad nauseum on Sky- with shiny graphics! :eek:

Hopefully someone captures it.

That was 1996 another war another time and anotherr reason WHY hezbollah must be removed from Lebanon.



Why is a deliberate massacre in 1996 by Israel anything other than a reason why Israel needs manners put on it?

Sadly, it's a non internet piece. I'm sure it will be repeated ad nauseum on Sky- with shiny graphics! :eek:

Gotcha:

The IDF screened a video yesterday showing rocket launches from Qana, and said it chose the objectives in the village by analyzing the locations from which Hezbollah had fired rockets on Israel. However, the house that was hit had no direct connection to the rocket-launching cells. Nonetheless, IAF officials said that immediately after firing rockets at Israel, some Hezbollah cells hide in civilian houses in built-up areas in southern Lebanon.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/744426.html

They really will say anything

Funny you should say that actually. I was watching the beloved pappy of 24hr tabloid news stations (not in the US), that is SKY News (at approx. 13.50GMT in case anyone else was watching) and the military expert/analyst they hire in from time to time (Francis Tusa) examined that video.

He looked at the video showing the rockets being fired (A) and the video showing the IAF strike hitting (B). He concluded: the building in (A) was not the same as the builing as in (B).

Ooops!


I watched the same video myself.

I did bomb damage assessment during the first Gulf War - on site.

It's the same hilltop. Apparently, the Hez were stationing children in every building (according to people on the scene) and the entire village was being used as a firing point (the firing point shifting from moment to moment).

It appears to be calculated to:

a) provoke a reaction
b) make that reaction costly in terms of dead children

all on purpose.

The building doing the firing in the video as well as the building hit in the other video are very close to one another.

Tactically speaking, considering the military activity on site, you would be well justified in using something like MLRS to do a blanket bombardment of the area with cluster munitions.

Tactically speaking, considering the military activity on site, you would be well justified in using something like MLRS to do a blanket bombardment of the area with cluster munitions.
Well justified, despite the fact that there are children positioned in every building?

I watched the same video myself.

I did bomb damage assessment during the first Gulf War - on site.

It's the same hilltop. Apparently, the Hez were stationing children in every building (according to people on the scene) and the entire village was being used as a firing point (the firing point shifting from moment to moment).

It appears to be calculated to:

a) provoke a reaction
b) make that reaction costly in terms of dead children

all on purpose.

The building doing the firing in the video as well as the building hit in the other video are very close to one another.

Tactically speaking, considering the military activity on site, you would be well justified in using something like MLRS to do a blanket bombardment of the area with cluster munitions.

You should look at my post about how theres no direct connection. Its right before this one.

EDIT: And you know what? If Hez are really using civilians as shields, PRODUCE SOME DEAD HEZBOLLAH. Noone even knows if they killed any at all.

Kana has not even been confirmed yet people. We should probably refrain from placing the blame on Israel until the facts are straightened out. It seems that there was a seven hour time gap between when the building in Kana was hit by a missile (b/w 12-1 AM), and when it actually collapsed(8AM).

JPost: http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...cle%2FShowFull

Haaretz: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/744426.html

JPost:


While the entire Israeli political echelon expressed regret for the results of the strike, Air Force Chief of Staff Brig.-Gen. Amir Eshel said Sunday night that the three-story building had been struck by the missiles a little after midnight and that it only collapsed seven hours later, at close to 7 a.m.

Eshel refrained from specifying what had caused the structure to collapse seven hours after it was hit, but senior IAF officers said Sunday night that the explosion could have been caused by an unexploded missile or by a Hizbullah-planted explosive device.

"It could be that there was something in the building that caused the explosion," Eshel said.

Eshel said that close to 150 Katyusha rockets had been fired from the Lebanese village over the past 20 days. Hizbullah had hidden rocket launchers, Eshel said, in civilian buildings in the village. Video footage he presented at a press conference in Tel Aviv Sunday night showed rocket launchers being driven into the village following attacks on northern Israel.

Kana has not even been confirmed yet people. We should probably refrain from placing the blame on Israel until the facts are straightened out. It seems that there was a seven hour time gap between when the building in Kana was hit by a missile (b/w 12-1 AM), and when it actually collapsed(8AM).

What does it matter? The building shouldnt have even been hit.

Kana has not even been confirmed yet people. We should probably refrain from placing the blame on Israel until the facts are straightened out. It seems that there was a seven hour time gap between when the building in Kana was hit by a missile (b/w 12-1 AM), and when it actually collapsed(8AM).

There could be very logical structural reasons the building took a few hours to collapse, including the possibility that the people were trapped in the basement by rubble preventing them from escaping. The collapse merely compunded their situation.

There could be very logical structural reasons the building took a few hours to collapse, including the possibility that the people were trapped in the basement by rubble preventing them from escaping. The collapse merely compunded their situation.


Or, Hizballah arms were being stored in the building and only exploded later, or they blew the building themselves after the strike. There are alot of logical reasons that could explain the events. I'm saying we should wait and see who is fully responsible.

I didn't buy Israeli products before they started to invade Lebanon. I still don't. Propably won't afterwards either, unless theres a government reform or something and they 1) Stop massacring citizens 2) Give Palestine their independence 3) End the Jewish Holocaust.

What about attacking the UN outpost? There surely were lots and lots of evil UN terrorists there.

Or, Hizballah arms were being stored in the building and only exploded later, or they blew the building themselves after the strike. There are alot of logical reasons that could explain the events. I'm saying we should wait and see who is fully responsible.

or the IDF are lying to try and shift the blame in a desperate attempt to try to win back some public opinion?

they took a hiding in todays global press that had given them a lot of leeway sofar.

Or, Hizballah arms were being stored in the building and only exploded later, or they blew the building themselves after the strike. There are alot of logical reasons that could explain the events. I'm saying we should wait and see who is fully responsible.
Sure. I'll await the independent enquiry then.

The Yesha Rabbinical Council announced in response to an IDF attack in Kfar Qanna that "according to Jewish law, during a time of battle and war, there is no such term as 'innocents' of the enemy."

Just...wow...

Yet they hate us because of our freedoms right?

Sure. I'll await the independent enquiry then.

Dont hold your breath. Didnt I already link to an article that said the building hit had nothing to do with the site in which rockets were being launched from? Does anyone listen to me? (expecting an ironic "no" response) ;)

Just...wow...

Yet they hate us because of our freedoms right?

Do you really live in a world where the Fourth Geneva Convention does not apply? Where any combatant can shield himself with a "protected person" and thereby automatically pre-empt any attack?

Laughable.

Do you really live in a world where the Fourth Geneva Convention does not apply? Where any combatant can shield himself with a "protected person" and thereby automatically pre-empt any attack?

Laughable.

In order to ensure respect for and protection of the civilian population and civilian objects, the Parties to the conflict shall at all times distinguish between the civilian population and combatants and between civilian objects and military objectives and accordingly shall direct their operations only against military objectives.

What?

4. Indiscriminate attacks are prohibited. Indiscriminate attacks are:

(a) Those which are not directed at a specific military objective;

(b) Those which employ a method or means of combat which cannot be directed at a specific military objective; or

(c) Those which employ a method or means of combat the effects of which cannot be limited as required by this Protocol; and consequently, in each such case, are of a nature to strike military objectives and civilians or civilian objects without distinction.

5. Among others, the following types of attacks are to be considered as indiscriminate:

(a) An attack by bombardment by any methods or means which treats as a single military objective a number of clearly separated and distinct military objectives located in a city, town, village or other area containing a similar concentration of civilians or civilian objects; and

(b) An attack which may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated.

If you ask me, Ive been trying to defend the 4th.

If you ask me, Ive been trying to defend the 4th.

No, you're not.

International law considers the use of human shields to protect targets a war crime. The Fourth Geneva Convention forbids the use of any civilian as a shield: "The presence of a protected person may not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations." (Geneva Convention Relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War, August 12, 1949, 6 U.S.T. 3516, 75 U.N.T.S. 287, art. 28)

If Hezbollah stations their rockets inside of civilian houses in a civilian village, and fires from random positions within that village, they ARE using the village and its citizens as human shields. Period.

No, you're not.

International law considers the use of human shields to protect targets a war crime. The Fourth Geneva Convention forbids the use of any civilian as a shield: "The presence of a protected person may not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations." (Geneva Convention Relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War, August 12, 1949, 6 U.S.T. 3516, 75 U.N.T.S. 287, art. 28)

If Hezbollah stations their rockets inside of civilian houses in a civilian village, and fires from random positions within that village, they ARE using the village and its citizens as human shields. Period.

You still have yet to prove Hez is hiding in the civilian population. With all the civilians dead they should be able to produce some dead Hezbollah fighters, yet I see none.

You still have yet to prove Hez is hiding in the civilian population. With all the civilians dead they should be able to produce some dead Hezbollah fighters, yet I see none.

They admitted it to the UN observers.

The UN chief there, Jan Egeland confirmed it.

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,19955774-5007220,00.html

You're saying the UN is making this up? Really?

They admitted it to the UN observers.

The UN chief there, Jan Egeland confirmed it.

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,19955774-5007220,00.html

You're saying the UN is making this up? Really?

The images, obtained exclusively by the Sunday Herald Sun, show Hezbollah using high-density residential areas as launch pads for rockets and heavy-calibre weapons.

Well, if Israel is going to attack residential areas, why wouldnt you be ready to defend yourself in said suburban area?

Dressed in civilian clothing so they can quickly disappear, the militants carrying automatic assault rifles and ride in on trucks mounted with cannon.

Welcome to guerilla warfare. Brains over braun.


This still isnt showing me the Hezbollah that were killed in Qana.

Well, if Israel is going to attack residential areas, why wouldnt you be ready to defend yourself in said suburban area?

Welcome to guerilla warfare. Brains over braun.

This still isnt showing me the Hezbollah that were killed in Qana.


Guerilla warfare, when it involves using human shields, or firing from civilian areas, is a war crime. Period.

It's pretty apparent to me that the IDF is targeting firing sites. If you fire from a civilian area, instead of an unused hilltop, you can expect counterbattery fire to waste the civilians.

It's not against the Fourth Geneva for the IDF to fire back in counterbattery fire like that - it's perfectly legal under the rules of war. All that is required is that Hez fire from the position - and they seem to have video of that.

Hezbollah are not all wearing uniforms. So, when they die, if someone picks up their rifle, it's a dead civilian. It's not like they carry ID cards, dog tags, or regularly wear emblems or regularly wear a standard uniform.

And you expect Hezbollah to give an accurate count of their own dead?

Their direct bragging to Jan Egeland and his horrified reaction was evidence enough that it's standard policy for Hezbollah.

Their direct bragging to Jan Egeland and his horrified reaction was evidence enough that it's standard policy for Hezbollah.

And the photos of Hezbollah fighters in civilian clothes manning AA guns in a town and the interviews w/ Hezbollah fighters showing heavy weapons in their homes and......

Those pictures were taken in East Beirut. East Beirut has seen little fighting. South Beirut has gotten the grunt of it.

These people are probably sitting waiting for Israel to attack. They are their defending their village. What do you want them to do, sit around while they get bombed?

Also, keep in mind this all started when Israel violated a sovereign nation by sending soldiers and tanks onto Lebanon's soil which resulted in a raid and the CAPTURE of 2 Israeli soldiers. So lets not talk about provocation.

For every Israeli good you boycott, I'll buy 3.

Also how many of you boycotters want to stop using the Israeli-invented Instant Messenger systems?

Not me!

I have to go join this "Jew Crew" I've heard about...

Those pictures were taken in East Beirut. East Beirut has seen little fighting. South Beirut has gotten the grunt of it.

These people are probably sitting waiting for Israel to attack. They are their defending their village. What do you want them to do, sit around while they get bombed?

Also, keep in mind this all started when Israel violated a sovereign nation by sending soldiers and tanks onto Lebanon's soil which resulted in a raid and the CAPTURE of 2 Israeli soldiers. So lets not talk about provocation.

Missed this part did we?:

Another depicts the remnants of a Hezbollah Katyusha rocket in the middle of a residential block blown up in an Israeli air attack.

"Hezbollah came in to launch their rockets, then within minutes the area was blasted by Israeli jets," he said.

"Until the Hezbollah fighters arrived, it had not been touched by the Israelis. Then it was totally devastated.

Also keep in mind that Hezbollah has been launching rockets and raids into Isreal for years even after the withdrawal. So lets not talk about provocation.

Do you really live in a world where the Fourth Geneva Convention does not apply? Where any combatant can shield himself with a "protected person" and thereby automatically pre-empt any attack?


The Israelis do. They don't recognise it in the occupied territories, remember?

Possibly because they use human shields.