NationStates Jolt Archive

An army of missionaries should be sent from the West to assist in the conversion of Iran. The reason:

In the reality that is God, only those who believe in His Son, the Great Mediator, our Lord Jesus Christ, can be anticipated to rule with justice and compassion. Civil rights and liberties only have meaning when the people, and their elected representatives, recognize and keep the Law; the righteous Law from which no man can escape trial on the Judgment Day.

His Excellency, John Hancock, Governor of Massachusetts, 1791:
... To bless the Allies of the United States, and to afford his Almighty Aid to all People, who are virtuously struggling for the Rights of Men—so that universal Happiness may be established in the World; that all may bow to the Scepter of our LORD JESUS CHRIST, and the whole Earth be filled with his Glory.

http://www.wallbuilders.com/resources/search/detail.php?ResourceID=113

silly, silly person

An army of missionaries should be sent from the West to assist in the conversion of Iran. The reason:

"Reason" and "Christian" should never be used in the same room.


Oh wait ... they aren't.

It's pretty obvious he's trying to do this just for attention.

Unless he really is a nut-bag and actually believes the crap he spams.

No, but it could use some of the West’s good old fashioned commercial decadence. Who cares about being a martyr for Allah when you have cell phones that double as cameras, digital cameras?

i said it in the last thread, i will say it again: a revolution is not enough. iran needs a civil war.

http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/927/trollwebti7.jpg

An army of missionaries should be sent from the West to assist in the conversion of Iran. The reason:

In the reality that is God, only those who believe in His Son, the Great Mediator, our Lord Jesus Christ, can be anticipated to rule with justice and compassion. Civil rights and liberties only have meaning when the people, and their elected representatives, recognize and keep the Law; the righteous Law from which no man can escape trial on the Judgment Day.

His Excellency, John Hancock, Governor of Massachusetts, 1791:
... To bless the Allies of the United States, and to afford his Almighty Aid to all People, who are virtuously struggling for the Rights of Men—so that universal Happiness may be established in the World; that all may bow to the Scepter of our LORD JESUS CHRIST, and the whole Earth be filled with his Glory.

http://www.wallbuilders.com/resources/search/detail.php?ResourceID=113
silly, silly zealot.

That is completely and utterly ridiculous. Are you saying that only Christians are capable of compassion, or that the natural human compassion will somehow not make its way into the government decisions in a non-Christian? Either way, your statement is false, there have been good non-Christian leaders in the past, and the correlation between justice or compassion and Christianity is nonexistant.

Been tried before, look up a little something called "the Crusades."

And I'm sure Iran would fuck you very much. :)

Been tried before, look up a little something called "the Crusades."
thank you. i was going to say that before i got carried away by the overall zealotry of his idea.

An army of missionaries should be sent from the West to assist in the conversion of Iran. The reason:

In the reality that is God, only those who believe in His Son, the Great Mediator, our Lord Jesus Christ, can be anticipated to rule with justice and compassion. Civil rights and liberties only have meaning when the people, and their elected representatives, recognize and keep the Law; the righteous Law from which no man can escape trial on the Judgment Day.

I don't know. Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, and Thailand are not Christian nations and they seem to be doing well with civil rights, liberty, and keeping the civil law. :eek:

That is completely and utterly ridiculous. Are you saying that only Christians are capable of compassion, or that the natural human compassion will somehow not make its way into the government decisions in a non-Christian? Either way, your statement is false, there have been good non-Christian leaders in the past, and the correlation between justice or compassion and Christianity is nonexistant.

Many non-Christians are more righteous than professing Christians. The question is whether the government is subject to the higher Law, and whether its leaders submit to the higher Law, and anticipate that they will be held to account when it is time.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only "religion" that is consistent with human nature, recognizes that we all come short of the glory of God, and that we should strive to elevate ourselves to holiness. Liberty is only something that a moral and righteous people will be able to maintain for long.

Yeknow, I normaly take any chance I can to bash Christians everywhere, but all these other guys have done bit better then I would have. ANd I thank them for it.

Many non-Christians are more righteous than professing Christians. The question is whether the government is subject to the higher Law, and whether its leaders submit to the higher Law, and anticipate that they will be held to account when it is time.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only "religion" that is consistent with human nature, recognizes that we all come short of the glory of God, and that we should strive to elevate ourselves to holiness. Liberty is only something that a moral and righteous people will be able to maintain for long.
That we should submit to an invisble sky pixie and beg for some imaginary forgiveness?

I don't know. Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, and Thailand are not Christian nations and they seem to be doing well with civil rights, liberty, and keeping the civil law. :eek:

They base their law, by and large, on the Christian tradition. Japan's constitution was imposed on them by General MacArthur.

That we should submit to an invisble sky pixie and beg for some imaginary forgiveness?

Are you saying that the universe as we know it is all there is? Godel proved that we cannot know this.

Are you saying that the universe as we know it is all there is? Godel proved that we cannot know this.
Yes, yes I am saying that, given what we know (which could change),Skip. God proved no such thing. A passage in a book simply said we can't know it.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only "religion" that is consistent with human nature, recognizes that we all come short of the glory of God, and that we should strive to elevate ourselves to holiness.

You haven't studied many religions have you. :(

Yes, yes I am saying that, given what we know (which could change),Skip. God proved no such thing. A passage in a book simply said we can't know it.

I think the troll misspelt "Gödel." As in Kurt Gödel.

They base their law, by and large, on the Christian tradition. Japan's constitution was imposed on them by General MacArthur.

You know not of what you speak other than the part about the Constitution of Japan being imposed by the US. The laws of Taiwan, North Korea, Thailand, and Japan are defiantly not based on Christian tradition.

I think the troll misspelt "Gödel." As in Kurt Gödel.
Ooh, well then in that case he is exactly right.

Many non-Christians are more righteous than professing Christians. The question is whether the government is subject to the higher Law, and whether its leaders submit to the higher Law, and anticipate that they will be held to account when it is time.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only "religion" that is consistent with human nature, recognizes that we all come short of the glory of God, and that we should strive to elevate ourselves to holiness. Liberty is only something that a moral and righteous people will be able to maintain for long.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b5/DoNotFeedTroll.png

Consistant with human nature? Christianity is very much contrary to human nature. Devotion to the well-being of strangers equivalent with oneself and family? If it was developed later it would have been referred to as Socialism.

Who are you? And what are you doing with my crack pipe?

Many non-Christians are more righteous than professing Christians. The question is whether the government is subject to the higher Law, and whether its leaders submit to the higher Law, and anticipate that they will be held to account when it is time.

When that happens, you'll find adulterers being sent to prison.

You want to turn the US into Saudi Arabia?

Alright, this is one of those threads where I really have nothing to add, so I'll just "get in before it goes to complete shit".

*passes around a box of special brownies*

Alright, this is one of those threads where I really have nothing to add, so I'll just "get in before it goes to complete shit".

*passes around a box of special brownies*
Thank you! I don't know how to reply to this thread as well, besides from :eek::eek::eek: !

What's so special about your brownies anyway? :confused:

What's so special about your brownies anyway? :confused:

You don't know what special brownies are?

...You're kidding, right?

Yes, yes I am saying that, given what we know (which could change),Skip. God proved no such thing. A passage in a book simply said we can't know it.

Can any human being claim knowledge of all things? We are bound by our limited view of reality. Physicists are still struggling to compose a model for the forces that exist in the universe, but perhaps their error is trying to constrain themselves to this universe alone, without stepping outside of the universe.

A scientist formulates a hypothesis, and then verifies the facts against his hypothesis. If it seems to work out; Bravo, but the scientist is still constrained by his understanding of reality. As time wears on, scientific theories are proven wrong, and new theories that seem to fit a larger set of facts are hypothesized, tested and become accepted.

Why wouldn't a similar set of natural laws exist for judging right and wrong actions? Using your own conscience as a guide, have you ever done something that you knew in your heart was wrong? This is the basis for your conviction, and your sentence has already been determined; death.

If you are currently on trial in a larger reality that exists outside the known universe, what will be your defense when it is time to be held to account?

You don't know what special brownies are?

...You're kidding, right?

So innocent...

When that happens, you'll find adulterers being sent to prison.

You want to turn the US into Saudi Arabia?


The US was based on the foundation of Christianity, not some secularism. Just read John Hancock if you doubt this:

http://www.wallbuilders.com/resources/search/detail.php?ResourceID=113

You don't know what special brownies are?

...You're kidding, right?
Are they like space cookies? *Nibbles*

Are they like space cookies? *Nibbles*

It's brownies with the baked-in goodness of Marijuana. They're pretty intense. :D

God says no to drugs.

Can any human being claim knowledge of all things? We are bound by our limited view of reality. Physicists are still struggling to compose a model for the forces that exist in the universe, but perhaps their error is trying to constrain themselves to this universe alone, without stepping outside of the universe.

If noone can claim to know all the mechanics of the universe, neither can you. However, physicists use a little something called "evidence". We have evidence to show that protons and neutrons are made of three quarks. We have evidence to show that E=mc^2. And the bits we don't know, we devise further experiments to find out, like the LHC at CERN to test supersymmetry.

If scientists can prove a God exists, then fine. Does religion on its own show any verifiable objective evidence for this? No.

A scientist formulates a hypothesis, and then verifies the facts against his hypothesis. If it seems to work out; Bravo, but the scientist is still constrained by his understanding of reality. As time wears on, scientific theories are proven wrong, and new theories that seem to fit a larger set of facts are hypothesized, tested and become accepted.

Have a gold star.

Why wouldn't a similar set of natural laws exist for judging right and wrong actions? Using your own conscience as a guide, have you ever done something that you knew in your heart was wrong? This is the basis for your conviction, and your sentence has already been determined; death.

Morals are a human invention, generally passed on from generation to generation with little deviation. Many form the basis of laws we have in our legislatures today. However, they are not a "natural law" in the context you describe.

If you are currently on trial in a larger reality that exists outside the known universe, what will be your defense when it is time to be held to account?

We're drifting into Pascal's Wager here, aren't we? And I'll tell you now it's a load of bollocks.

God says no to drugs.
What about drugs used for medical purposes? :confused:

An army of missionaries should be sent from the West to assist in the conversion of Iran. The reason:

In the reality that is God, only those who believe in His Son, the Great Mediator, our Lord Jesus Christ, can be anticipated to rule with justice and compassion. Civil rights and liberties only have meaning when the people, and their elected representatives, recognize and keep the Law; the righteous Law from which no man can escape trial on the Judgment Day.

His Excellency, John Hancock, Governor of Massachusetts, 1791:
... To bless the Allies of the United States, and to afford his Almighty Aid to all People, who are virtuously struggling for the Rights of Men—so that universal Happiness may be established in the World; that all may bow to the Scepter of our LORD JESUS CHRIST, and the whole Earth be filled with his Glory.

http://www.wallbuilders.com/resources/search/detail.php?ResourceID=113

Is it possible for an entire religion to collectively win a Darwin Award?

God says no to drugs.

Yeah, and he likes to watch while you take a dump.

What about drugs used for medical purposes? :confused:
If you get sick, it's because God wants you to be sick.

No drugs.

If you get sick, it's because God wants you to be sick.

No drugs.
Alright then, if that's what God wants...:(

*Coughs*

Yeah, and he likes to watch while you take a dump.
He's only helping me.

Alright then, if that's what God wants...:(

*Coughs*
May the Lord be with you.

The US was based on the foundation of Christianity, not some secularism. Just read John Hancock if you doubt this:

http://www.wallbuilders.com/resources/search/detail.php?ResourceID=113

Ummm ... every single other Founding Father disagrees with Hancock. So ... yeah.

I think that most people are forgetting that Allah and God are the same thing, and that these whack job extremists are no different than our dear friends who live down in Dixie, kind of like people who want to send Christian missionaries to convert an entire country because they are ignorant zenophobes.

Anyone else seen Mississippi Burning?

The US was based on the foundation of Christianity, not some secularism. Just read John Hancock if you doubt this:

http://www.wallbuilders.com/resources/search/detail.php?ResourceID=113

One would hope it had evolved a bit since then....

One would hope it had evolved a bit since then....
it has which is why we have elected officials who are not christians.
Joe Liebermann anyone?
A state monopoly by one religion is the first step towards religious persecution, anybody remember the spanish inquesition?

An army of missionaries should be sent from the West to assist in the conversion of Iran. The reason:

In the reality that is God, only those who believe in His Son, the Great Mediator, our Lord Jesus Christ, can be anticipated to rule with justice and compassion. Civil rights and liberties only have meaning when the people, and their elected representatives, recognize and keep the Law; the righteous Law from which no man can escape trial on the Judgment Day.

His Excellency, John Hancock, Governor of Massachusetts, 1791:
... To bless the Allies of the United States, and to afford his Almighty Aid to all People, who are virtuously struggling for the Rights of Men—so that universal Happiness may be established in the World; that all may bow to the Scepter of our LORD JESUS CHRIST, and the whole Earth be filled with his Glory.

http://www.wallbuilders.com/resources/search/detail.php?ResourceID=113

Yeah, yeah, tell it to the Tribunal, Ayatollah.

And I'll tell you now it's a load of bollocks.

Is that going to be your defense? You know in your heart that you have done things against what your own heart has told you is wrong. Every one of us falls short of what is expected. We have already been convicted.

And they who heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning with the eldest even unto the last ...
John 8:9

Is it possible for an entire religion to collectively win a Darwin Award?

Why would you want to destroy religion. Our hearts yearn for our Creator. The very nature of the universe, of mankind, point to Him.

The very idea of Human Rights is a Christian concept, rooted in the natural law and in morality.

An army of missionaries should be sent from the West to assist in the conversion of Iran. The reason:

In the reality that is God, only those who believe in His Son, the Great Mediator, our Lord Jesus Christ, can be anticipated to rule with justice and compassion. Civil rights and liberties only have meaning when the people, and their elected representatives, recognize and keep the Law; the righteous Law from which no man can escape trial on the Judgment Day.

His Excellency, John Hancock, Governor of Massachusetts, 1791:
... To bless the Allies of the United States, and to afford his Almighty Aid to all People, who are virtuously struggling for the Rights of Men—so that universal Happiness may be established in the World; that all may bow to the Scepter of our LORD JESUS CHRIST, and the whole Earth be filled with his Glory.

http://www.wallbuilders.com/resources/search/detail.php?ResourceID=113

I hate to break it to you, but Muslims believe in Jesus too.

Is that going to be your defense? You know in your heart that you have done things against what your own heart has told you is wrong. Every one of us falls short of what is expected. We have already been convicted.

And they who heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning with the eldest even unto the last ...
John 8:9
Have you ever met Jesussaves?

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/search.php?searchid=572969

Have fun!

An army of missionaries should be sent from the West to assist in the conversion of Iran. The reason:

In the reality that is God, only those who believe in His Son, the Great Mediator, our Lord Jesus Christ, can be anticipated to rule with justice and compassion. Civil rights and liberties only have meaning when the people, and their elected representatives, recognize and keep the Law; the righteous Law from which no man can escape trial on the Judgment Day.

His Excellency, John Hancock, Governor of Massachusetts, 1791:
... To bless the Allies of the United States, and to afford his Almighty Aid to all People, who are virtuously struggling for the Rights of Men—so that universal Happiness may be established in the World; that all may bow to the Scepter of our LORD JESUS CHRIST, and the whole Earth be filled with his Glory.

http://www.wallbuilders.com/resources/search/detail.php?ResourceID=113

I'd support that.

I think that most people are forgetting that Allah and God are the same thing, and that these whack job extremists are no different than our dear friends who live down in Dixie, kind of like people who want to send Christian missionaries to convert an entire country because they are ignorant zenophobes.

Anyone else seen Mississippi Burning?

While Muslims yearn for God, and Allah shares some properties with the God of Israel, Mohammed corrupted the Islamic faith later on to support his earthly rule.

Many Muslims are good people, they strive to follow a moral code, and they yearn for the truth. That truth is in the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

In a strange way, the UK could probably benefit from some missionaries more than Iran could. While I admire that you are willing to take on anti-social behaviors, the foundation of what's really important needs to be restored.

LOL Idiot!

Have you ever met Jesussaves?

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/search.php?searchid=572969

Have fun!

:eek:

That's all I can say. At least he isn't around to kill/flame me for being bisexual.

Is that going to be your defense? You know in your heart that you have done things against what your own heart has told you is wrong. Every one of us falls short of what is expected. We have already been convicted.
i hereby convict you, by the power invested in me by me, of being full of shit and are hereby recommended to stop pedalling your superstitious nonsense derived from a book that was only relevant 2000 YEARS AGO now. please.

I just snorted milk out of my nose reading the OP.

I think I need to get out of the house now...

See you all later.

That Book is relevant forever.

I hate to break it to you, but Muslims believe in Jesus too.

Only in the way Mohammed presents Him, which is to say, incorrectly.

Mohammed had a lot of contacts as a merchant who met with many Christians. He was confused by the Trinity, which he thought was God, Jesus and Mary, so he started to make up his own beliefs.

Early parts of the Qur'an, before Mohammed became a ruler, put in many of the doctrines from Christianity, although as mis-interpreted by Mohammed. Later parts of the Qur'an became extremely intolerant, and surely disprove the validty of Islam as a true faith.

Note that true tolerance, not the tolerance of immorality as is taught today, was bourne of the early pre-Revolutionary America, where the Great Awakening began to break down denomintionalism. John Locke was a proponent of tolerance. Tolerance is a Christian concept.

i hereby convict you, by the power invested in me by me, of being full of shit and are hereby recommended to stop pedalling your superstitious nonsense derived from a book that was only relevant 2000 YEARS AGO now. please.

I am already convicted. You don't even need Scripture to know that you have already violated the law that is embedded in your heart.

A whole thread of this troll's graffiti now? Sad day for NSG.

What about drugs used for medical purposes? :confused:

What about medical weed? :p

I think that most people are forgetting that Allah and God are the same thing, ...

Isn't that a subject for debate? Has it been debated before?

What about medical weed? :p
*Looks around*
Maybe God's not watching right now, but just in case pretend you have a bad headache or something. Do you think Conscience and Truth will tell on us?

Have you ever met Jesussaves?

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/search.php?searchid=572969

Have fun!

Maybe he is Jsussaves reincarnated. :D

Only in the way Mohammed presents Him, which is to say, incorrectly.

Mohammed had a lot of contacts as a merchant who met with many Christians. He was confused by the Trinity, which he thought was God, Jesus and Mary, so he started to make up his own beliefs.

Early parts of the Qur'an, before Mohammed became a ruler, put in many of the doctrines from Christianity, although as mis-interpreted by Mohammed. Later parts of the Qur'an became extremely intolerant, and surely disprove the validty of Islam as a true faith.

Note that true tolerance, not the tolerance of immorality as is taught today, was bourne of the early pre-Revolutionary America, where the Great Awakening began to break down denomintionalism. John Locke was a proponent of tolerance. Tolerance is a Christian concept.
There was no tolerance in the world before Christ?


HA HA HA HA HA!!!! HA!! HA!!

While Muslims yearn for God, and Allah shares some properties with the God of Israel, Mohammed corrupted the Islamic faith later on to support his earthly rule.

If I read you correctly, you are saying there are two Gods, one is God of Israel who is the Jewish and Christian God and the other is called Allah the God of the Muslims. Isn't that contradicting what the Bible says?

*Looks around*
Maybe God's not watching right now, but just in case pretend you have a bad headache or something. Do you think Conscience and Truth will tell on us?

ROFLMAO :D

There was no tolerance in the world before Christ?


HA HA HA HA HA!!!! HA!! HA!!

Buddhists and Jews don’t count as everyone knows they are not tolerant. :p

An army of missionaries should be sent from the West to assist in the conversion of Iran. The reason:

In the reality that is God, only those who believe in His Son, the Great Mediator, our Lord Jesus Christ, can be anticipated to rule with justice and compassion. Civil rights and liberties only have meaning when the people, and their elected representatives, recognize and keep the Law; the righteous Law from which no man can escape trial on the Judgment Day.

So...let me get this straight.

In every other thread you're a rabid, far-left parody troll. Now you're a rabid, expansionist missionary troll?

Man, seriously, check out some therapy.

Buddhists and Jews don’t count as everyone knows they are not tolerant. :p
I'm so amazed by the ignorance. You don't have to go to school to learn this stuff.

An army of missionaries should be sent from the West to assist in the conversion of Iran.
How exactly do you think your army should go about converting the people of Iran? :confused:
You didn't say how you would like this done, I'm just curious as to how far you would go. It sounds like you want to force your views down their necks if they like it or not. What would you do with those who refuse to convert? Would you ban the practise of other religions, force christianity to be taught in schools and take over the media? I'd be interested to hear your ideas.

That would take a lot of effort, but I think we both know realisticaly that simple preaching won't be enough.

Man, seriously, check out some therapy.

Bipolar trolling is like regular trolling cubed.

When I first was this thread, I thought it was a exaggerated mickey-take of Christianity, but Jesus, this barbarian better get out of his cave and take a good look at civilised society. I really didn't think people this dumb and blatently ignorant still existed in the Western world today. Where were you taught this crap anyway?

When I first was this thread, I thought it was a exaggerated mickey-take of Christianity, but Jesus, this barbarian better get out of his cave and take a good look at civilised society. I really didn't think people this dumb and blatently ignorant still existed in the Western world today. Where were you taught this crap anyway?
The word is ''brainwashed'' not taught. :rolleyes:

How exactly do you think your army should go about converting the people of Iran? :confused:
You didn't say how you would like this done, I'm just curious as to how far you would go. It sounds like you want to force your views down their necks if they like it or not. What would you do with those who refuse to convert? Would you ban the practise of other religions, force christianity to be taught in schools and take over the media? I'd be interested to hear your ideas.

That would take a lot of effort, but I think we both know realisticaly that simple preaching won't be enough.

I'm not sure how it could be done because Iran is a repressive regime that probably wouldn't look too kindly on missionaries, especially of the Christian variety.

It's a shame that Christ's glory doesn't reign in more parts of the world.

Iran needs a Christian revolution
I can't help but find it amusing that those aspects of American "Christianity" that would call for a Christian revolution in Iran are exactly those aspects of Christianity that would call for the Christian equivilent of an Iranian revolution in America.

Those who we fear most are those with whom we have the most in common.

I'm not sure how it could be done because Iran is a repressive regime that probably wouldn't look too kindly on missionaries, especially of the Christian variety.

It's a shame that Christ's glory doesn't reign in more parts of the world.
Gimme a T!

T

Gimme a R!

R

Gimme a O!

O

Gimme a L!

L

Gimme another L!

L

What does that spell?

TROLL!

When I first was this thread, I thought it was a exaggerated mickey-take of Christianity, but Jesus, this barbarian better get out of his cave and take a good look at civilised society. I really didn't think people this dumb and blatently ignorant still existed in the Western world today. Where were you taught this crap anyway?

Studying the Word, the early Christians, the history of Europe, the Prostestant Reformation, the early American pilgrims, and the Founding Fathers. :(

When I first was this thread, I thought it was a exaggerated mickey-take of Christianity, but Jesus, this barbarian better get out of his cave and take a good look at civilised society. I really didn't think people this dumb and blatently ignorant still existed in the Western world today. Where were you taught this crap anyway?

He probably learned it here http://www.godhatesfags.com/main/index.html :(

I can't help but find it amusing that those aspects of American "Christianity" that would call for a Christian revolution in Iran are exactly those aspects of Christianity that would call for the Christian equivilent of an Iranian revolution in America.

Those who we fear most are those with whom we have the most in common.

I don't call for a "violent jihad" in the name of Christ.


I believe in the truth of Christ.

I don't call for a "violent jihad" in the name of Christ.


I believe in the truth of Christ.

Hey CT are you going to answer my question in post #70?

I don't call for a "violent jihad" in the name of Christ.


I believe in the truth of Christ.

It's going to turn violent no matter which way you go about converting them.

If I read you correctly, you are saying there are two Gods, one is God of Israel who is the Jewish and Christian God and the other is called Allah the God of the Muslims. Isn't that contradicting what the Bible says?

That's a rheotrical device. There is only one true God.

But if you look at the 10 Commandments, God tells the children of Israel, that they shall have no other gods before Him.

Other gods can include the worship of money, of man, of sin, etc., etc. in addition to actual idols.

It's going to turn violent no matter which way you go about converting them.

I know, but our Lord Christ commanded all of us to do this.

I'm not sure how it could be done because Iran is a repressive regime that probably wouldn't look too kindly on missionaries, especially of the Christian variety.

It's a shame that Christ's glory doesn't reign in more parts of the world.
It couldn't be done peacefully, you'd need to oppress the people of Iran. It would take a long time and much fighting, but it might work if you get enough troops there along with the missionaries. I'm sure most Iranian families would prefer their children to go to a christian school if they could avoid death or imprisionment. Especially if their kids were taken away from them anyway if they didn't do as you wish. There'd still be a lot of people worshiping underground, despite you closing down all their places of worship. It will take a lot of money and probably several generations until the majority of people are christian, even if you attempt brainwashing the children in school. But the important thing is that it would do some good, even if only a few people convert.
Would you prefer these people to live like this, their souls would be saved from hell right? (I really hope you aren't this extreme).

I know, but our Lord Christ commanded all of us to do this.

To do what? Oh, do you really believe what you are saying in this thread?

I don't call for a "violent jihad" in the name of Christ.

I believe in the truth of Christ.
No, you believe in the truth of Christianity. So much so that you can't even see the difference between the two.

Christian Revolution? Don't make me laugh. Jesus fought the evils of organised religion and oppressive governance not by giving people new scripture or rubbishing their existing beliefs but by learning them, using them and drawing out new and reasoned meanings from them, by lending an unconditional hand to those in pain and in need rather than requiring unquestioning loyalty, by thinking only of the people he visited without being driven by his own social or spiritual status and, most of all, by keeping governance over other people furthest from his own thoughts or those to whom he talked.

You do him a grave injustice attaching his name to your little sect.

To do what? Oh, do you really believe what you are saying in this thread?

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: ...
Matthew 28:19-20

Christian Revolution? Don't make me laugh. Jesus fought the evils of organised religion and oppressive governance not by giving people new scripture or rubbishing their existing beliefs but by learning them, using them and drawing out new and reasoned meanings from them, by lending an unconditional hand to those in pain and in need rather than requiring unquestioning loyalty, by thinking only of the people he visited without being driven by his own social or spiritual status and, most of all, by keeping governance over other people furthest from his own thoughts or those to whom he talked.

See post #92 (above).

An army of missionaries should be sent from the West to assist in the conversion of Iran. The reason:

In the reality that is God, only those who believe in His Son, the Great Mediator, our Lord Jesus Christ, can be anticipated to rule with justice and compassion. Civil rights and liberties only have meaning when the people, and their elected representatives, recognize and keep the Law; the righteous Law from which no man can escape trial on the Judgment Day.

His Excellency, John Hancock, Governor of Massachusetts, 1791:
... To bless the Allies of the United States, and to afford his Almighty Aid to all People, who are virtuously struggling for the Rights of Men—so that universal Happiness may be established in the World; that all may bow to the Scepter of our LORD JESUS CHRIST, and the whole Earth be filled with his Glory.

http://www.wallbuilders.com/resources/search/detail.php?ResourceID=113


ALERT! ALERT! CATASTROPHIC ERROR! HYPER-RELIGION... CLOSE MINDED...

CODE RED! CODE RED!



**Computer explodes in an atomic blast**

Boo to your idea!!!!

That'll just make things FAR WORSE!

ALERT! ALERT! CATASTROPHIC ERROR! HYPER-RELIGION... CLOSE MINDED...

CODE RED! CODE RED!

**Computer explodes in an atomic blast**

Boo to your idea!!!!

Oh Minaris, I wish I could win you over.

I used to be a computer geek, (C++ disproves God in many minds), but it was an error. Even computer geeks and extreme gamers need God.

That'll just make things FAR WORSE!

There's a Catholic theory that if the whole world prayed the Rosary that there would no more war.

See post #92 (above).
Evidently you missed my point. The Disciples Have Failed to pass on his teachings to you people. Jesus lies dead and buried below a steaming pile of Pauline promises and Christian Dogma and you dance on his grave and call him Lord, all the while trampling the lies deeper and deeper into his remaining memory.

Well folks, I think it is time for me to stop feeding http://images.epilogue.net/users/peloquin/Troll.jpg He will never get full. Y'all have fun.

Evidently you missed my point. The Disciples Have Failed to pass on his teachings to you people. Jesus lies dead and buried below a steaming pile of Pauline promises and Christian Dogma and you dance on his grave and call him Lord, all the while trampling the lies deeper and deeper into his remaining memory.

Christ is not dead, nor does He sleep.

Holy Paul, Apostle to the Gentiles, did not change one word of the truth of Christ.

The only aspect Christianity that Paul clarified was whether new Christians would have to become Jews first.

Blah, blah, blah...
Don't you ever think you're wasting your time?
Have you ever converted anyone with preaching about jesus and your bible quotes? :confused:

Don't you ever think you're wasting your time?
Have you ever converted anyone with preaching about jesus and your bible quotes? :confused:

Vacuumhead, well what is your take on all this? Do you believe in God?

Vacuumhead, well what is your take on all this? Do you believe in God?
...I believe in God...

Iran needs a christian revolution about as much as the USA needs an Oompa Loompa revolution.

Vacuumhead, well what is your take on all this? Do you believe in God?
Nope, I'm an atheist.
I've never really met anyone who has strong religious beliefs except on NS, and I'll admit I know very little about any religion. Which is why I don't often debate on religion threads.

...I believe in God...
Really, you don't sound too sure...
What's the the triple dots? :confused:

Iran needs a christian revolution about as much as the USA needs an Oompa Loompa revolution.
We shall rise up.
*Oompa-loompa doopity-doo
We've got a full metal jacket for you*

Really, you don't sound too sure...
What's the the triple dots? :confused:
Well, I believe in God, but the Garden of Eden story makes me think he's a malevolent being.

Nope, I'm an atheist.
I've never really met anyone who has strong religious beliefs except on NS, and I'll admit I know very little about any religion. Which is why I don't often debate on religion threads.

Vacuumhead, where are you from? Scotland?

Whatever happened to the Scottish Presbyterian Church? :(

Well, I believe in God, but the Garden of Eden story makes me think he's a malevolent being.
You believe in the christian God but think he is evil? :eek:

Christ is not dead, nor does He sleep.

Holy Paul, Apostle to the Gentiles, did not change one word of the truth of Christ.

The only aspect Christianity that Paul clarified was whether new Christians would have to become Jews first.
You're right. He didn't change it.

He made do with replacing it instead.

Original sin, Salvation by faith in Jesus and faith alone and the Paradise and Underworld rebirth ideas of your little cult are all works of Paul. Never are they mentioned in Gospel; they are all in Letters and John's Revelation. Your ideas of how to relate to Jesus and Theology come from Paul, how you choose to interpret the cause of Jesus's resurrection comes from Paul, your political stance of proactive social manipulation comes from Paul, your fanaticism for missions abroad comes from Paul, even your symbolism comes from Paul's church.

For all we know (and as many now believe), Jesus could have been a complete fabrication of the man and Still Christianity would have flourished as much as it has done.

Vacuumhead, where are you from? Scotland?

Whatever happened to the Scottish Presbyterian Church? :(
Scotland, what makes you think that? You're close enough I guess. :p

I'm from England, Manchester to be exact. I suppose there are christians here, but none of my friends have ever mentioned God. The only christian I've known was my Irish grandfather, and I didn't get to see him often.

You believe in the christian God but think he is evil? :eek:
That's not uncommon. Reading the Old Testament tends to give that impression.

Actually, there is something to be said for the notion of a specific, malevolent deity. Surely if it wanted to win people over, it would proclaim to be the benevolent and all-powerful one true God?

Other gods can include the worship of money, of man, of sin, etc., etc. in addition to actual idols.

But I like my moneys. Money's a much better god than your God.

You're right. He didn't change it.

He made do with replacing it instead.

Original sin, Salvation by faith in Jesus and faith alone and the Paradise and Underworld rebirth ideas of your little cult are all works of Paul. Never are they mentioned in Gospel; they are all in Letters and John's Revelation. Your ideas of how to relate to Jesus and Theology come from Paul, how you choose to interpret the cause of Jesus's resurrection comes from Paul, your political stance of proactive social manipulation comes from Paul, your fanaticism for missions abroad comes from Paul, even your symbolism comes from Paul's church.

For all we know (and as many now believe), Jesus could have been a complete fabrication of the man and Still Christianity would have flourished as much as it has done.

Christianity was sweeping the world even before St. Paul. Paul was one of the few that puts words to paper about Christ. The Gospels themselves were somewhat separated from the time of Christ. I tend to believe Paul.

People don't want religion in the way you wish to make it. People want the truth about God, not "Jesus as revolutionary communist" allegory, which is what you want to make it into.

I yearn for many of the same things you do, but I just don't feel it should be the role of government, but of individual people acting in conscience.

You believe in the christian God but think he is evil? :eek:
Why is that so shocking? I mean, he's supposed to be this omniscient/omnipresent/omnipotent being, right? He creates the Garden of Eden, and basically decides to fuck with humanity, apparently, because he puts the Tree of Good And Evil in the middle of this garden! Plus, he allowed Satan to get into the garden, knowing that the humans he created have weak wills, and the nature of Lucifer. So, not only does he basically force us onto this Earth, he makes it the most miserable place possible. WTF did we ever do to him?! Nothing!

Therefore, my conclusion is that he's malevolent.

For further proof: Humans are made in the image of God. If we are evil (and I take it as a given that we are, in fact, evil. One needs only flip on the news for proof of that), what does that tell us about Him?

Scotland, what makes you think that? You're close enough I guess. :p

I'm from England, Manchester to be exact. I suppose there are christians here, but none of my friends have ever mentioned God. The only christian I've known was my Irish grandfather, and I didn't get to see him often.

Vacuumhead, we need to return Christ to England. See if you can get your hands on one of the older versions of the Book of Common Prayer. Visit a High Church service.

The faith is really excellent, but it's hard to win an intellectual debate on it, you have to stop by a "Eurcharistic Service." It's Sunday in a couple hours!

Why is that so shocking? I mean, he's supposed to be this omniscient/omnipresent/omnipotent being, right? He creates the Garden of Eden, and basically decides to fuck with humanity, apparently, because he puts the Tree of Good And Evil in the middle of this garden! Plus, he allowed Satan to get into the garden, knowing that the humans he created have weak wills, and the nature of Lucifer. So, not only does he basically force us onto this Earth, he makes it the most miserable place possible. WTF did we ever do to him?! Nothing!

God could send all of us to Hell, and he would STILL be a just and merciful God.

Man committed the wrong, not God, but, in a sense, we are lucky that our First Parents did this, because we were able to get so magnificent a Redeemer!

Why is that so shocking?
I don't know. I said before that I've never actually talked to a christian about God stuff exept here on NS. My family and friends are mostly agnostic or atheist (or have just never mentioned religion). I don't really know what people believe, or why and how they came to believe that. It does kind of make sense now you've explained it, although I don't think it's actually true of course. :p

Sad new folks: As I was reading this thread my bullshit detector exploded, slightly injuring me and my wife, and killing my poor cat. I hope my cat went to heaven.:(

But I like my moneys. Money's a much better god than your God.

Earthican, I know what you mean. I strongly support the free enterprise system, but part of acquiring money is giving it all away.

Our Lord:

As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. "Good teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"

"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good—except God alone. You know the commandments: 'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, do not defraud, honor your father and mother.'"

"Teacher," he declared, "all these I have kept since I was a boy."

Jesus looked at him and loved him. "One thing you lack," he said. "Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

At this the man's face fell. He went away sad, because he had great wealth.

Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, "How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God!"

The disciples were amazed at his words. But Jesus said again, "Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God! It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

The disciples were even more amazed, and said to each other, "Who then can be saved?"

Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God."

Peter said to him, "We have left everything to follow you!"

"I tell you the truth," Jesus replied, "no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age (homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields—and with them, persecutions) and in the age to come, eternal life. But many who are first will be last, and the last first."
Mark 10:17-31

I actually do enjoy the acquisition of money but do you always take things so seriously?

*snip*

Conscience and Truth, what the fuck is wrong with you? You used to be a far left, millitant athiest. Have you really had a sudden change in heart or are you just trolling?

Vacuumhead, we need to return Christ to England. See if you can get your hands on one of the older versions of the Book of Common Prayer. Visit a High Church service.

The faith is really excellent, but it's hard to win an intellectual debate on it, you have to stop by a "Eurcharistic Service." It's Sunday in a couple hours!
I don't think so, England doesn't need Christ thank you very much.

In my school religion was taught not as truth, but just as what some people believe in. Christianity was taught in my first year of highschool (aged eleven) so I barely remember anything. We moved on to other religions after that, then I dropped the subject when I could. I just didn't believe it, and went on to study sciences at college (16 - 18). I've heard that physics and geology contradict a little with the whole idea of God creating the universe, right? I hope I didn't waste my time studying them. :rolleyes:

I don't know. I said before that I've never actually talked to a christian about God stuff exept here on NS. My family and friends are mostly agnostic or atheist (or have just never mentioned religion). I don't really know what people believe, or why and how they came to believe that. It does kind of make sense now you've explained it, although I don't think it's actually true of course. :p
I don't know if its true, I just think it explains the things that go wrong in the world, and the stories of the Bible pretty well.
I consider myself an agnostic or a Protestant of some sort... Depends on the weather.

I actually do enjoy the acquisition of money but do you always take things so seriously?

The question is, what can you take with you when you die? Christ tells us to collect treasure in heaven.

Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

Matthew 5:19-21

Conscience and Truth, what the fuck is wrong with you? You used to be a far left, millitant athiest. Have you really had a sudden change in heart or are you just trolling?
He lost his keys... but he found God :p

In my school religion was taught not as truth, but just as what some people believe in. Christianity was taught in my first year of highschool (aged eleven) so I barely remember anything. We moved on to other religions after that, then I dropped the subject when I could. I just didn't believe it, and went on to study sciences at college (16 - 18). I've heard that physics and geology contradict a little with the whole idea of God creating the universe, right? I hope I didn't waste my time studying them. :rolleyes:

I know England teaches it that way. Don't you dislike the idea of being socially engineered in this way? I wish we could restore more parental involvement in education. England has virtually universal education before the government seized control in the late 1800's.

Anyhow, the truth is that science does not disprove God, it proves Him.

Conscience and Truth, what the fuck is wrong with you? You used to be a far left, millitant athiest. Have you really had a sudden change in heart or are you just trolling?
:eek:

Is he just trolling? I quite liked discussing religion with him. Oh well, I suppose it doesn't really matter.

Conscience and Truth, what the fuck is wrong with you? You used to be a far left, millitant athiest. Have you really had a sudden change in heart or are you just trolling?

I'm militant atheist only in the sense that I was parroting the National Education Association/American Federation of Teachers/National Union of Teachers/government experts/social engineers view on the Forum.

:eek:

Is he just trolling? I quite liked discussing religion with him. Oh well, I suppose it doesn't really matter.

Vacuumhead, why would a troll respond to you?

Whenever I parroted the National Union of Teachers' view, no matter how extreme, no one said anything, when I started to express the view that goes against Secular Fundamentalist majority, I get called troll.

I'm militant atheist only in the sense that I was parroting the National Education Association/American Federation of Teachers/National Union of Teachers/government experts/social engineers view on the Forum.

So you were a troll.

The question is, what can you take with you when you die?

I don't know, but man did I have fun with what I did have before dying like my harem of beautiful android mistresses. :P

If you want to know, seriously, I tend to not care about religion because I believe that if you spend too much time worrying about how you're going to die or what will happen when and after you die, you never live your life the way you want to. I don't carry out commands or follow, I act. I respect what you say and believe but I can entertain myself by making fun of it. Is that not a right?

So you were a troll.

But...you're not one now? I thought some of your left-wing stances seemed overly-extreme to the point of being cliched, but I thought you atcually held them.

I don't know, but man did I have fun with what I did have before dying like my harem of beautiful android mistresses.
Ah, the Korean sexbots...

I know England teaches it that way. Don't you dislike the idea of being socially engineered in this way? I wish we could restore more parental involvement in education. England has virtually universal education before the government seized control in the late 1800's.

Doesn't really bother me, and I wouldn't call it that. Teaching from an unbiased viewpoint is good, it lets us make up our own mind (or just follow the religion our parents tell us to). I think it's good that we learn about many different religions, teaches acceptance and so on.
Anyhow, the truth is that science does not disprove God, it proves Him.
The truth eh? I find that funny!

Ah, the Korean sexbots...

Indeed. What make and model is your harem?

Christianity was sweeping the world even before St. Paul. Paul was one of the few that puts words to paper about Christ. The Gospels themselves were somewhat separated from the time of Christ. I tend to believe Paul.
That's your choice to make, but the Gospel of Luke seems by far and away the most reliable source on events, and it is by that that I choose to place my leanings.

People don't want religion in the way you wish to make it. People want the truth about God, not "Jesus as revolutionary communist" allegory, which is what you want to make it into.

I yearn for many of the same things you do, but I just don't feel it should be the role of government, but of individual people acting in conscience.
Do you know Jesus's God? I see no reason to assume that the "truth" of Christianity is anywhere near what he understood. Christianity's God overflows with the remnants of Paul's Jewish faith and is defined otherwise almost entirely through Paul's own notions of Heaven and Salvation. Where is Jesus's influence? How can Christianity go on without its Theology being soundly shaken by the man himself?

As long as you wish to call yourselves followers of Christ, you would do well not to settle for any explanation other than His:

The Kingdom of God is within you

This is not a cultural trend, nor is it a political ideology. That people could make an organised religion out of something like this surpasses all belief.

I don't want any religion. Religion is itself thought and idea turned to social malignancy. I want people to look within themselves for their own answers, for if God is truely there then it is through our own search and discovery, not through our external allegience or public displays of evangelism, that we will find him and see him for what he is.

Until we have done this, none of us have the right to bear the name of its proponent. Not I, not you, not Religion or government or ideology. Especially not when we act in complete contravention of the ideas he stood for.

Vacuumhead, why would a troll respond to you?

Whenever I parroted the National Union of Teachers' view, no matter how extreme, no one said anything, when I started to express the view that goes against Secular Fundamentalist majority, I get called troll.
I get called a troll just because I like gundge...:( :gundge:

I don't know, but man did I have fun with what I did have before dying. :P

If you want to know, seriously, I tend to not care about religion because I believe that if you spend too much time worrying about how you're going to die or what will happen when and after you die, you never live your life the way you want to. I don't carry out commands or follow, I act. I respect what you say and believe but I can entertain myself by making fun of it. Is that not a right?

Sure, you have that right. However, the right to Liberty is not just the right to unlimited personal freedom in all manners. People have a right to choose the society in which they live as well. Which is why UN as One World Government, the European Union, and the modern United States, are bad ideas.

Societies have a right to govern themselves, and govern according to the laws by which they see fit to govern themselves. For most people, this is in accordance with a strong moral tradition, guided by the commands of God. I suppose this might limit unlimited personal liberty to some degree. However, you can always look for a new society that shares your values.

The end of the institution, maintenance, and administration of government, is to secure the existence of the body politic, to protect it, and to furnish the individuals who compose it with the power of enjoying in safety and tranquillity their natural rights, and the blessings of life: and whenever these great objects are not obtained, the people have a right to alter the government, and to take measures necessary for their safety, prosperity and happiness.

The body politic is formed by a voluntary association of individuals: it is a social compact, by which the whole people covenants with each citizen, and each citizen with the whole people, that all shall be governed by certain laws for the common good. ...

Constitution of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, John Adams, et al

Doesn't really bother me, and I wouldn't call it that. Teaching from an unbiased viewpoint is good, it lets us make up our own mind (or just follow the religion our parents tell us to). I think it's good that we learn about many different religions, teaches acceptance and so on.

The truth eh? I find that funny!

Tolerance should not be a first principle.

It is not loving your neighbor to allow them to fall into error in the name of Tolerance.

Indeed. What make and model is your harem?
A '68 Samsung Jessica Albot.
If only I'd waited a year and gotten the '69 model.

(Damn Joltlag...)

Tolerance should not be a first principle.

It is not loving your neighbor to allow them to fall into error in the name of Tolerance.
*Scratches head* :confused:

What are you saying now?

*Scratches head* :confused:

What are you saying now?
It means, if they aren't your religion, convert them through any means necessary. EG the Inquisition.

*Scratches head* :confused:

What are you saying now?
"They're wrong, and I refuse to pretend that they're not" is the gist of it, I think.

It means, if they aren't your religion, convert them through any means necessary. EG the Inquisition.
Oh, there's no need for me to do that! I'm a meh! atheist. :p

Oh, there's no need for me to do that! I'm a meh! atheist. :p

Vacuumhead, don't say such a thing. You are not atheist.

If you are absolutely sure of the non-existance of God, then at least prove it for me.

Vacuumhead, don't say such a thing. You are not atheist.

If you are absolutely sure of the non-existance of God, then at least prove it for me.

You cannot prove a negative. Anyway, it is up to you to prove the existance of God. And before you say it, an outdated propoganda document (the bible) Is NOT proof.

Vacuumhead, don't say such a thing. You are not atheist..
Erm..yes I am. I know what's in my mind, you don't. I'm 100% sure that i'm an atheist, I don't have any doubts at all.

If you are absolutely sure of the non-existance of God, then at least prove it for me.
You want me to pay you to go to university and study science or geology? A lot of what you believe in has been disproved.

You want me to pay you to go to university and study science or geology? A lot of what you believe in has been disproved.

Even the most acclaimed scientists admit that it is impossible to prove or disprove God. Therefor it is impossible to know about the existance of God.

Even the most acclaimed scientists admit that it is impossible to prove or disprove God. Therefor it is impossible to know about the existance of God.
Maybe not god. But he seems to think EVERYTHING in the bible is the truth, when much of that has been disproved. And the idea of a god is just silly.

:rolleyes: Perhaps we should instead be focusing in on an even higher Law applicable right here on NSGen:

THOU SHALT NOT FEED THE TROLL.

Tolerance should not be a first principle.

It is not loving your neighbor to allow them to fall into error in the name of Tolerance.
Nobody likes to party with a moral police man. If your actions don't influence people to question you about your thoughts on life maybe you should take that as a sign not to give out unasked for advice.

Oh, there's no need for me to do that! I'm a meh! atheist. :p

I'm an agnostic, but that's basically the same thing. I think...

:rolleyes: Perhaps we should instead be focusing in on an even higher Law applicable right here on NSGen:

THOU SHALT NOT FEED THE TROLL.
But I'm hungry, give me gundge to eat! :gundge:

Oh, you meant the other troll. :rolleyes:

Erm..yes I am. I know what's in my mind, you don't. I'm 100% sure that i'm an atheist, I don't have any doubts at all.

You want me to pay you to go to university and study science or geology? A lot of what you believe in has been disproved.

Geology has disproven God?

I'm an agnostic, but that's basically the same thing. I think...
I'm meh! because I don't really care what others believe in.
I think religions are silly, but I don't try to convince people to think exactly what I do.

Geology has disproven God?
It's disproven that god created the world.
That's one lie in the bible. How many others are there?

It's disproven that god created the world.
That's one lie in the bible. How many others are there?

Actually, it disprooves that the world is under 10,000 years old.

Actually, it disprooves that the world is under 10,000 years old.
It proves that the bible is full of bullshit.

It proves that the bible is full of bullshit.

It doesn't actually say anywhere in the Bible how old the earth is.

It doesn't actually say anywhere in the Bible how old the earth is.
It says the world was created in under a week, that is untrue.

"Reason" and "Christian" should never be used in the same room.


Oh wait ... they aren't.
The same thing can be said of the words "reason" and "liberal." Or "conservative" for that matter.

It says the world was created in under a week, that is untrue.

Yep, but maybe it isn't suppost to be taken literally.

It's disproven that god created the world.
That's one lie in the bible. How many others are there?

Vacuumhead, I don't think the Scripture as inconsistent as you think it is.

The broader question isn't to get hyperlegal and try to disprove particular words in the Bible, but whether you believe that man is the last and final arbiter of right and wrong, or if we will be held to account at a future time?

And by the way, by geology you must mean "carbon dating," since thats as yet the most reliable way to determine age. You know, using the half-life of carbon? However, carbon dating becomes extremely inaccurate after about 5,000 years, which is why you always see the +- 250,000 years, etc. So in reality carbon dating itself is giving a little lean towards creation.

Vacuumhead, I don't think the Scripture as inconsistent as you think it is.

The broader question isn't to get hyperlegal and try to disprove particular words in the Bible, but whether you believe that man is the last and final arbiter of right and wrong, or if we will be held to account at a future time?
Mankind? We're just another animal, one that destroys the very world we live on. :(

Vacuumhead, I don't think the Scripture as inconsistent as you think it is.

The broader question isn't to get hyperlegal and try to disprove particular words in the Bible, but whether you believe that man is the last and final arbiter of right and wrong, or if we will be held to account at a future time?
The two are not unrelated. The current state of the world seems like it would fit the bill of "held accountable". We are paying back the debts of our predecessors through our continued struggle in the present day; it's just unfortunate that at the minute we're adding more on to the tabs of our offspring. But you know, if we all pay back more than we take, the debt will disappear.

Mankind? We're just another animal, one that destroys the very world we live on. :(

Vacuumhead, you have a negative view of man. :(

Don't feel this way. :(

Maybe you should look to God instead of your religion of Geology? I haven't meant someone who believes in Geologism before, most people believe in Evolutionism.

Geology proves God. The order of the Earth points inevitability to a creator.

And by the way, by geology you must mean "carbon dating," since thats as yet the most reliable way to determine age. You know, using the half-life of carbon? However, carbon dating becomes extremely inaccurate after about 5,000 years, which is why you always see the +- 250,000 years, etc. So in reality carbon dating itself is giving a little lean towards creation.
We can actually see evolution happen in the fossils as well. A good example is the horse, the leg bones have changed much over time. It's clear to see. I can't be bothered looking it up but I'm sure they'll be some pictures somewhere on the internet.

The two are not unrelated. The current state of the world seems like it would fit the bill of "held accountable". We are paying back the debts of our predecessors through our continued struggle in the present day; it's just unfortunate that at the minute we're adding more on to the tabs of our offspring. But you know, if we all pay back more than we take, the debt will disappear.

We are each judged as individuals. We cannot make amends, we have angered God beyond belief. He's furious!

We can actually see evolution happen in the fossils as well. A good example is the horse, the leg bones have changed much over time. It's clear to see. I can't be bothered looking it up but I'm sure they'll be some pictures somewhere on the internet.

Evolutionists believe in Common Ancestor as their god. Now, how can show the transitional forms from Common Ancestor to horse?

Vacuumhead, you have a negative view of man. :(

Don't feel this way. :(

Maybe you should look to God instead of your religion of Geology? I haven't meant someone who believes in Geologism before, most people believe in Evolutionism.

Geology proves God. The order of the Earth points inevitability to a creator.
I was just taking about geology because that's what I learned in college, with physics and chemistry. I actually hated it. the subject itself could be interesting I suppose, but I had the worst ever teacher.

We can actually see evolution happen in the fossils as well. A good example is the horse, the leg bones have changed much over time. It's clear to see. I can't be bothered looking it up but I'm sure they'll be some pictures somewhere on the internet.
Thats microevolution, they have never found a bridge species. All species have change within the species (microevolution), such as color change. Macroevolution has not been supported yet, by which I mean there has never been found a species which was the step in between two distinct species. Don't make fallacious claims please.

Vacuumhead, you have a negative view of man. :(

Don't feel this way. :(

Maybe you should look to God instead of your religion of Geology? I haven't meant someone who believes in Geologism before, most people believe in Evolutionism.

Geology proves God. The order of the Earth points inevitability to a creator.

No offence but you give christianity a bad name. You are constantly laballing scientific beliefs as "religions". No one is obsessed/worships/loves or treats these theories as Idols and influence on their behaviour. They are just beliefs.

Most people believe in Geology and Evolution, the two don't contradict each other.

We are each judged as individuals. We cannot make amends, we have angered God beyond belief. He's furious!
You keep thinking that. I'm going to try to make the world a better place for my kids in the meantime.

For the record, I'd rather not be affiliated with CT. His beliefs seem slightly... more unique than mine. Or maybe less reasonable.

It makes me smile how similar Christianity and Islam really are.

For the record, I'd rather not be affiliated with CT. His beliefs seem slightly... more unique than mine. Or maybe less reasonable.

Surf Shack, how did I lose you?

I thought the lowest score could get was 0, but now it seems I have -1. :(

It makes me smile how similar Christianity and Islam really are.

Too bad that isn't real christianity.

Too bad that isn't real christianity.

In Christianity, everyone is saved, irregardless of how they act or believe? :(

Thats microevolution, they have never found a bridge species. All species have change within the species (microevolution), such as color change. Macroevolution has not been supported yet, by which I mean there has never been found a species which was the step in between two distinct species. Don't make fallacious claims please.

The only thing I'm claiming is that science has disproved some of what is taught by religions. Maybe it's not disproved everything but I've seen enough of what I see to be not to be true to make me doubt everything else I'm told by religious people. I don't know why I even started to get into detail about science and stuff, I never paid attension or got particular good grades in school and I didn't go to university or anything. I just happen to believe what I was taught in class to be more likely than what religious people think. To me the idea of a God creating the world seems silly, what I was taught in school seems like a more reasonable explaination. That's just what I think.

That is completely and utterly ridiculous. Are you saying that only Christians are capable of compassion, or that the natural human compassion will somehow not make its way into the government decisions in a non-Christian? Either way, your statement is false, there have been good non-Christian leaders in the past, and the correlation between justice or compassion and Christianity is nonexistant.

What has come out of the Muslim world that compares to the compassion of the Crusades, or the Inquisition. Oh, quite a bit I suppose. All an army of missionaries would accomplish is one more log on the fire.

In reality, missionaries would prove ineffectual in any Muslim country. Converting people from polythiestic religions is fairly easy. They believe in lots of Gods, what's one more? Then the next generation is told that this One God is more important and powerful than all the others, then the generation after that is told that you're not supposed to believe in the others, because this One God is jealous.

Converting monotheists is just asking to get your head chopped off. If you're lucky.

In Christianity, everyone is saved, irregardless of how they act or believe? :(

Yes. Except for belief in false words like "irregardless."

Vacuumhead, you have a negative view of man. :(

Don't feel this way. :(

Maybe you should look to God instead of your religion of Geology? I haven't meant someone who believes in Geologism before, most people believe in Evolutionism.

Geology proves God. The order of the Earth points inevitability to a creator.

Perhaps it proves God. Perhaps is proves the accumulation of dirt. My cieling has a very orderly way of accumulating water stains underneath leaks in my pipes. I hardly think that order is proof of God's existence.

Geology, design, holes in the evolutionary chain... none of them prove God. All they prove is the lack of imagination in the apologist.

What has come out of the Muslim world that compares to the compassion of the Crusades, or the Inquisition. Oh, quite a bit I suppose. All an army of missionaries would accomplish is one more log on the fire.

In reality, missionaries would prove ineffectual in any Muslim country. Converting people from polythiestic religions is fairly easy. They believe in lots of Gods, what's one more? Then the next generation is told that this One God is more important and powerful than all the others, then the generation after that is told that you're not supposed to believe in the others, because this One God is jealous.

Converting monotheists is just asking to get your head chopped off. If you're lucky.

Especially (I'm sure) the Norse gods, who say we're gonna lose the final battle between good and evil.

And by the way, by geology you must mean "carbon dating," since thats as yet the most reliable way to determine age. You know, using the half-life of carbon? However, carbon dating becomes extremely inaccurate after about 5,000 years, which is why you always see the +- 250,000 years, etc. So in reality carbon dating itself is giving a little lean towards creation.

Why is it that the opportunity for ignorance is always interpreted as "God must have done it," by the creationists?

Seriously, you make about as much sense as the cartographers who used to write "thar be dragons," on the unexplored bits of their maps. Except you think that just because you haven't sailed there yet, there must actually be dragons there.

Tolerance should not be a first principle.

It is not loving your neighbor to allow them to fall into error in the name of Tolerance.

Yes, but humility is supposed to be a very high principle. And it is arrogance to think that you know how to live your neighbor's life better than he does.

No offence but you give christianity a bad name. You are constantly laballing scientific beliefs as "religions". No one is obsessed/worships/loves or treats these theories as Idols and influence on their behaviour. They are just beliefs.

Most people believe in Geology and Evolution, the two don't contradict each other.

When people take science to extreme levels and declare they have disproven God, even when science has not shown such things, they have elevated science beyond an academic pursuit and turned it into a religion.

I don't think people even understand the scientific theories they espouse in the name of disproving God, especially when most are experts in that area. It's an intellectual trojan horse used to feel better about the nature of sin. This is the atheist's imaginary friend and false idol, because the atheist knows he has already been convicted by his own conscience.

Why is it that the opportunity for ignorance is always interpreted as "God must have done it," by the creationists?

Seriously, you make about as much sense as the cartographers who used to write "thar be dragons," on the unexplored bits of their maps. Except you think that just because you haven't sailed there yet, there must actually be dragons there.
The difference being that the cartographers were right. The dragons just weren't quite as large as they expected. Dragons are poodle sized and quite obedient.

Vacuumhead, don't say such a thing. You are not atheist.

If you are absolutely sure of the non-existance of God, then at least prove it for me.

I can prove it.

I built a "Box of God."

Then I opened the box up and looked inside. There wasn't any God in it. I even filled it with all sorts of cracks and nooks and crannies, for God to hide in, but he wasn't in any of them. I explored the whole box thoroughly. The entire box of God was totally empty. If there ever was any God, clearly it's all gone.

When people take science to extreme levels and declare they have disproven God, even when science has not shown such things, they have elevated science beyond an academic pursuit and turned it into a religion.

I don't think people even understand the scientific theories they espouse in the name of disproving God, especially when most are experts in that area. It's an intellectual trojan horse used to feel better about the nature of sin. This is the atheist's imaginary friend and false idol, because the atheist knows he has already been convicted by his own conscience.
Here you are right. Science takes no initiative to prove or disprove God.

The same thing can be said of the words "reason" and "liberal." Or "conservative" for that matter.


Even Anne Coulter admits that the word reason is inextricably linked with the word liberal. Of course, she sticks a "t" in front of it, but still, it's there.

The difference being that the cartographers were right. The dragons just weren't quite as large as they expected. Dragons are poodle sized and quite obedient.

I was talking about their horrible spelling in the word "thar." I guess I should have been more clear on that. My bad. :D

Yes, but humility is supposed to be a very high principle. And it is arrogance to think that you know how to live your neighbor's life better than he does.

As a Christian I have to warn my neighbor when he falls into error, however as a legal principle, I don't very much feel the need to mandate this.

What I do object to is a small minority of people trying to override the mores of everyone else and to impose their view on society.

The Constitution of Connecticut nicely clarifies this point:
SEC. 3. The exercise and enjoyment of religious profession and worship, without discrimination, shall forever be free to all persons in the state; provided, that the right hereby declared and established, shall not be so construed as to excuse acts of licentiousness, or to justify practices inconsistent with the peace and safety of the state.
(my underline)

The difference being that the cartographers were right. The dragons just weren't quite as large as they expected. Dragons are poodle sized and quite obedient.

Actually they were right. However, as further expansion occured, mythological perpetuation syndrome (MPS, an, in those days, common condition which meant they could only exist in the blank space on the edges of the map) destroyed them. Today, mythological creatures exist mostly in the deep, unexplored reigions of the ocean.

As a Christian I have to warn my neighbor when he falls into error, however as a legal principle, I don't very much feel the need to mandate this.

What I do object to is a small minority of people trying to override the mores of everyone else and to impose their view on society.

The Constitution of Connecticut nicely clarifies this point:
SEC. 3. The exercise and enjoyment of religious profession and worship, without discrimination, shall forever be free to all persons in the state; provided, that the right hereby declared and established, shall not be so construed as to excuse acts of licentiousness, or to justify practices inconsistent with the peace and safety of the state.
(my underline)

Can they override their lesses?

I think Iran needs a revolution, period.

Actually they were right. However, as further exansion occured, mythological perpetuation syndrome (MPS, an, in those days, common condition which meant they could only exist in the blank space on the edges of the map) destroyed them. Today, mythological creatures exist mostly in the deep, unexplored reigions of the ocean.
And the psyche. Where the all powerful Masters of the Universe and Moral Consciences like to hide. Along with the dragons.

There is a reason why man created God in his own image.

And the psyche. Where the all powerful Masters of the Universe and Moral Consciences like to hide. Along with the dragons.

There is a reason why man created God in his own image.

Oh yeah, a lot of 'mythological' creatures survive in the human psyche.

Here you are right. Science takes no initiative to prove or disprove God.

Science is used as a weapon by people who want to feel better in their conscience, when many have not even studied it, and likely did quite poorly in their actual study of the same. The public school system seems to do an excellent job teaching that science disproves God, but not in teaching students any actual science.

In the course of the past few decades the public schools have been turned into propaganda outfits/social engineering experiments for the "progressive" (socialist) movement.

While the social engineering doesn't work as fast as "progressives" wish, it makes slow progress, the one thing I am disappointed in is parents have been unable to regain control over their childrens' education.

Science is used as a weapon by people who want to feel better in their conscience, when many have not even studied it, and likely did quite poorly in their actual study of the same. The public school system seems to do an excellent job teaching that science disproves God, but not in teaching students any actual science.

In the course of the past few decades the public schools have been turned into propaganda outfits/social engineering experiments for the "progressive" (socialist) movement.

While the social engineering doesn't work as fast as "progressives" wish, it makes slow progress, the one thing I am disappointed in is parents have been unable to regain control over their childrens' education.

Yes, and the commies are sapping our essence by fluoridating the water.

Can they override their lesses?

Aeson, your funny. You should quickly look up "mores" though.

At least you aren't viciously attacking me for my belief in the truth of Christ.

How's Birmingham tonight?

Aeson, your funny. You should quickly look up "mores" though.

At least you aren't viciously attacking me for my belief in the truth of Christ.

How's Birmingham tonight?

*wikis*

Well now I feel silly.

Birmingham?

Science is used as a weapon by people who want to feel better in their conscience, when many have not even studied it, and likely did quite poorly in their actual study of the same. The public school system seems to do an excellent job teaching that science disproves God, but not in teaching students any actual science.

In the course of the past few decades the public schools have been turned into propaganda outfits/social engineering experiments for the "progressive" (socialist) movement.

While the social engineering doesn't work as fast as "progressives" wish, it makes slow progress, the one thing I am disappointed in is parents have been unable to regain control over their childrens' education.
No. Science is not used as a weapon for "feeling good" or attacking religion. Science is used to explain our nature and our surroundings. I don't believe you are disappointed in the idea that parents have lost control of children's education, I believe you are disappointed when faced with the fact that God has no place in a secular institution such as the public school system.

Yes, and the commies are sapping our essence by fluoridating the water.

www.teachers.org.uk

www.nea.org
www.aft.org

No. Science is not used as a weapon for "feeling good" or attacking religion. Science is used to explain our nature and our surroundings. I don't believe you are disappointed in the idea that parents have lost control of children's education, I believe you are disappointed when faced with the fact that God has no place in a secular institution such as the public school system.

There are so many dimensions in which the public schools are poor. You don't really answer the question: Should parents have control over their child's(childrens') education?

www.teachers.org.uk

www.nea.org
www.aft.org

As far as I can tell, these sites say that state testing is bad. Yeah, I agree with that, but I don't see how it applies.

*wikis*

Well now I feel silly.

Birmingham?

Manchester?

Manchester?

I live in upstate New York, mate.

As far as I can tell, these sites say that state testing is bad. Yeah, I agree with that, but I don't see how it applies.

You have to dig deeper into the sites, where they discuss their social/political agenda.

There are so many dimensions in which the public schools are poor. You don't really answer the question: Should parents have control over their child's(childrens') education?
Parents already have the ability to control their child's education. Just by becoming involved with their child at home, by attending PTA meetings, etc. How much control a parent has over their childs education is relative to how involved they are with their child's life.

You have to dig deeper into the sites, where they discuss their social/political agenda.

Link me to those discussions and I'll look at them.

Parents already have the ability to control their child's education. Just by becoming involved with their child at home, by attending PTA meetings, etc. How much control a parent has over their childs education is relative to how involved they are with their child's life.

LOL, so long as they don't have a right to put them in a different school. Only the rich are allowed to do that in your view.

If Iran had a Christian revolution, then they would be a force for peace in the Middle East.

Science is used as a weapon by people who want to feel better in their conscience, when many have not even studied it, and likely did quite poorly in their actual study of the same. The public school system seems to do an excellent job teaching that science disproves God, but not in teaching students any actual science.

In the course of the past few decades the public schools have been turned into propaganda outfits/social engineering experiments for the "progressive" (socialist) movement.

While the social engineering doesn't work as fast as "progressives" wish, it makes slow progress, the one thing I am disappointed in is parents have been unable to regain control over their childrens' education.
Oh that's bullshit.

LOL, so long as they don't have a right to put them in a different school. Only the rich are allowed to do that in your view.

Hey, there are Christian schools. How much they charge is their own fault. Besides, in the US at least, you can homeschool your kids.

LOL, so long as they don't have a right to put them in a different school. Only the rich are allowed to do that in your view.
There are always options to put a child in a different school.

Oh Minaris, I wish I could win you over.

I used to be a computer geek, (C++ disproves God in many minds), but it was an error. Even computer geeks and extreme gamers need God.

According to the unofficial and unspoken suburban American dictionary, 'computer geek' and 'extreme gamer' are stereotypes.

And I would like to announce to the whole of this entire of this discussion team that it's people like Fred Phelps and CaT here (I wouldn't be surprised if they were one in the same), that drew me away from Christianity in the first place.

But I have to thank people like you, because people like you drew me away from theocratic thinking and drove me towards free thinking, simply because I realized if I continued my old ways, I would end up like you.

Welcome back UN Abassadorship

Welcome back UN Abassadorship
;) Very clever...

Here is something to read:

http://www.brighterchoiceproject.org/archive/media/DAILYGsurvey.pdf

Thousands of parents transfer their children to schools outside their immediate neighborhood each year. It's a complex and confusing process, with no guarantee of success. But persistence often pays off. If your neighborhood school is inadequate, or you are worried about your child's health and safety, it's worth trying to get permission for your child to attend another school. Continue reading for information about transferring to a better school, or see the other pages in this section: transferring for health and safety reasons and forced transfers and discharges.
http://www.insideschools.org/st/ST_transfer.php

http://www.parents4publicschools.com/pics/newsletter.14.upload/1999.04PPSPress.pdf

There are options. Though I'm not sure if you are concerned with education in public schools or lack of religion in public schools. If it's lack of religion you're concerned with, sorry can't and don't want to help you.

While Muslims yearn for God, and Allah shares some properties with the God of Israel, Mohammed corrupted the Islamic faith later on to support his earthly rule.

Many Muslims are good people, they strive to follow a moral code, and they yearn for the truth. That truth is in the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

In a strange way, the UK could probably benefit from some missionaries more than Iran could. While I admire that you are willing to take on anti-social behaviors, the foundation of what's really important needs to be restored.

You make me sick. Anyone else find what he said disgusting?

Can you get any more egotistical? Saying that what you belive is the only way to believe? Look PAL, I'm Christian, and I have a good friend who is Muslim, and I can tell you right now that he is going to grow up to be a lot more of an accomplished person than you could ever hope to be. And you know what? He doesn't even need Jesus to do it.

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/3575/religionthreadne5.jpg

Science is used as a weapon by people who want to feel better in their conscience, when many have not even studied it, and likely did quite poorly in their actual study of the same. The public school system seems to do an excellent job teaching that science disproves God, but not in teaching students any actual science.

Really? I must have missed that day. What they taught me had nothing to do with the existence of God, and I got fairly good marks in science.

In the course of the past few decades the public schools have been turned into propaganda outfits/social engineering experiments for the "progressive" (socialist) movement.

Um, no. Take a look at the textbook selection process sometime. It's the right that is engaging in social engineering. Actual quote from one of the people voting on textbook approval in Texas, "this book makes too big a deal out of fossil fuel and global warming. I don't see why oil companies have to be the bad guy." This woman was the wife of a member of Exxon's board of directors.

While the social engineering doesn't work as fast as "progressives" wish,

...because it's the regressives that are in charge of it.

it makes slow progress, the one thing I am disappointed in is parents have been unable to regain control over their childrens' education.

Which is exactly what the regressives want.

If Iran had a Christian revolution, then they would be a force for peace in the Middle East.

*sigh* I try to be funny, and satiricly absurdist, but now I see that I am in the presence of a true master. *bows*

Yeknow, I normaly take any chance I can to bash Christians everywhere, but all these other guys have done bit better then I would have. ANd I thank them for it.

Ah, yes, and where are the defenders of open-mindedness on this board when we see a post like this.

Say it with me, Trostia: Bigot bigot bigot bigot bigot!!!

An army of missionaries should be sent from the West to assist in the conversion of Iran. [/url]
Unless those missionaries are armed to the teeth and had special forces training they wouldn't last a day.

An army of missionaries should be sent from the West to assist in the conversion of Iran. The reason:

In the reality that is God, only those who believe in His Son, the Great Mediator, our Lord Jesus Christ, can be anticipated to rule with justice and compassion. Civil rights and liberties only have meaning when the people, and their elected representatives, recognize and keep the Law; the righteous Law from which no man can escape trial on the Judgment Day.

His Excellency, John Hancock, Governor of Massachusetts, 1791:
... To bless the Allies of the United States, and to afford his Almighty Aid to all People, who are virtuously struggling for the Rights of Men—so that universal Happiness may be established in the World; that all may bow to the Scepter of our LORD JESUS CHRIST, and the whole Earth be filled with his Glory.

http://www.wallbuilders.com/resources/search/detail.php?ResourceID=113

I can't believe i just read that. I wonder how you would react if Iran sent an army of Islamic mercanaries to wherever you lived and converted you and your family at the end of a gun.

I don't think you would like it. I think you should take your religious bigotry elsewhere, because you will get no sympathy from me, nor most anyone else on this forum.

EDIT: No more feeding the troll!

Unless those missionaries are armed to the teeth and had special forces training they wouldn't last a day.

If they did last with all that, they'd likely convert nearly no one and kill nearly everyone.

There are so many dimensions in which the public schools are poor. You don't really answer the question: Should parents have control over their child's(childrens') education?

No, because then parents would shelter their children from that which they dont want them to know, and press on to bloody hell what they want their kids to believe, instead of letting their children experience diverse ideas and ideologies and choose what they personally believe in.

If they did last with all that, they'd likely convert nearly no one and kill nearly everyone.
I wouldn't be surprised if a number of churches agreed to implement a Post-Humous Conversion ceremony as a way around that little detail.

why won't this thread end!!!!
I say it for the last time:
FUTTERN DAS TROLL NICHT!