NationStates Jolt Archive

Polltime!

What do you love more:

Those frolicking funloving hedonistic Athenians,

or those militaristic spartanic flesh-mortifying Spartans?

I approve of both, personally.

I'll go with Athens. Democracy rocks and so do the concepts of history (Herodotus and Thucydides respectively) and theater. :)

I hate those Spartans!!!

Sure, they were fantastic warriors, but the fact of the matter is that they regulated themselves to such an elite level that their war industries were unstable.

Therefore, I vote Athenians by about...not very much. Still, the Spartans were nasty-ass fighters.

I'm not particularly inclined to liking a culture whose concept of "fun" was to sit in the middle of a room trying to say as little as possible and whose currency consisted of oversized iron bars.

Athens it is, by default.

I'm gonna support Sparta, kinda cos I think Im expected to.

Hedonistic Capitalist Athenians of course!

Spartan lifestyle topped out with drinking a soup of boiled pigs blood and vinegar then dying of a horrible wound.

Spartans, they kicked athenians ass during the peloponnesian War and Athens was a Empire.

Damn, I love'em both. Have to go with Athens though, if only because it was the ancient equivalent to a Democratic State, while Sparta the ancient equivalent of a Totalitarian State.

It was only a matter of time until Alexander picked up the pieces anyway.

Sparta Fans: If you haven't already read it, read Gates of Fire by Stephen Pressfield. I can't plug that book enough, it's that good.

Totally pro-Spartan.

Hedonism is... revolting.

Hooray for Hedonism. Athens all the way

athens. sparta was some stupid millitary dictatorship, theres no way i can sopurt their system. and athens gets bonus points for coming up with the concept of democracy.

love em both....but give the props to sparta....300 warriors faught a whole persian army and lasted a good while.

both are beautiful places tho.

Fecking Greeks! They invented gayness!

Women!

Sparta and Helen.


Athens and.... who?

I chose Athens, Sparta was way too warlike for me... leaving babies in the cold, finding glory by dying on the battlefield... too much machoness!

Athens. They were the ones that worshipped Pan, so they've got my support for multiple reasons other than their culture alone.

I support Athens over Sparta. And Athens is the capital of Greece now, so they won in the end. :p

I chose Athens, Sparta was way too warlike for me... leaving babies in the cold, finding glory by dying on the battlefield... too much machoness!
yaeh... i hate sparta for same reason.

Go Michigan State!!!

I voted Sparta, cuz if i recall correctly, Sparta trained their women to fight. Sounds almost like equality for women, even if they did only do it cause they thought it would result in having more athletic sons.

Plus, Sparta was just so badass.

Athenian fun

I have to go with Sparta. The Athenians may have been a democracy and they may have had a more relaxed lifestyle, but the Spartans were more egalitarian - in Sparta women were given education and physical training along with the men, they had as much of a voice in what happened as the men (which, admittedly, wasn't much), in Athens, they were not educated (unless they were heterai - analagous to the Geisha in Japan) and considered to be barely human.

Democratic Athens or Fascist Sparta...hmmm...yeah. Tough choice.

I'm sticking with the Athenians, because they built their power on a financial basis, where the Spartans built their power on military basis. Although I've got to give it to the Spartans, they saved Western Civilization at Thermopylae.

Sparta was not as much dictatorship as it was much of Oligarchy. Their warriors were the best of the best. Im gonna have to go with them. They're more macho than Athens.

Sparta. Not because they were warlike, or because they were some totalitarian, but because they understood that life means sacrifice. They had learned that each person in the city needed to sacrifice something of themselves for the betterment of all. And it worked. They were able to take a piss poor piece of land and make a viable city-state out of it.

Too many people now feel that others should sacrifice for them.

And Gates of Fire rocks.

Sparta. Not because they were warlike, or because they were some totalitarian, but because they understood that life means sacrifice. They had learned that each person in the city needed to sacrifice something of themselves for the betterment of all. And it worked. They were able to take a piss poor piece of land and make a viable city-state out of it.

Too many people now feel that others should sacrifice for them.

And Gates of Fire rocks.
The Spartans also built their empire on the backs of tens of thousands of Helot Slaves.

Antartica owns them all.

Antartica owns them all.
Pshah, antarctica owns everybody.

Pshah, antarctica owns everybody.

True, very true.

Spartans of course. They were mostly blond....Their stupidity made them overrun by ugly peoples...

Hedonistic? More like awesome and democratic! Not that hedonism isn't awesome.:p

Spartans, they kicked athenians ass during the peloponnesian War and Athens was a Empire.Only by enlisting the aid of the Persians by selling them the Ionian Greeks...

The Spartans also built their empire on the backs of tens of thousands of Helot Slaves.

Disingenuous. Everybody builds on someone's back. The ante-bellum South built on the backs of black slaves. The North built on the backs of immigrants and poor farm kids who came to the city. The Athenians had their own slaves and an attitude of their own superiority - call it hubris (overweening pride that leads to downfall). This is the way it's always been and, likely, the way it always will be - a downtrodden group to provide the gruntwork at low or no pay and the elite who will take the credit. We can hope it changes, but likely it won't.

I'd say Sparta because as mad as it sounds they were happy unlike crappy Athenian democracy

also note that Sparta was probably the only successful utopia in human history and that for the time Sparta was very much an egalitarian dream with all (except there Kings) male Spartans being equal

Sparta Fans: If you haven't already read it, read Gates of Fire by Stephen Pressfield. I can't plug that book enough, it's that good.

Fucking fantastic book! :)

"Suicide" is the best character, in my opinion. :D

...of course, my vote goes to Sparta. Athens was a great city, and certainly outlasted Sparta in the course of history, but Sparta just has an aura to it that trumps any other Greek city-state.

Sparta!

*roars*

sparta or athens.

Both arrogant to the point that they should lead the "greek" world.
One believing in democracy, of course only for free men.
One a brutal miliary Oligarchy where slaves outnumbered the free 10 to 1
Liberty but where women of "standing" could never be left alone except in the home.
Oppressive regime where the free men and women were almost equal in all facets of life excluding the army.

hard choice.
I'll choose athens though. Sparta as a city state was impressive, simply due to the professional army and the military state that was able to fight of off nations like persia. But because of their rigid ways they were never able to become an empire. Thus they failed.
Athens, was able to found colonies, influence the culture & cities around them. And they were able to fight the spartan for 30 years even though they're army was a citizen army. Also thanks to their literature and being a place of learning their legacy has lived on to this day.

Athens for sure!

Sparta may have had military strength, but that's about all they had.

Leaving sickly babies out in the cold nights to die?! :(

Bah. The attack and defence values of Spartan Hoplites pwn even the silly Roman urban cohorts. Sparta has the best unit. [/Total War reference] Sparta FTW.

Athens for sure!

Sparta may have had military strength, but that's about all they had.

Leaving sickly babies out in the cold nights to die?! :(


Do you wanna share your neighbourhood with the unfit and the week? :p

Do you wanna share your neighbourhood with the unfit and the week? :p

Yes, I am unfit, and if we didn't have weeks, well, we'd still be going by the old inaccurate calenders ;)

Yes, I am unfit, and if we didn't have weeks, well, we'd still be going by the old inaccurate calenders ;)


They was good enuff for Helen - and they'd better be good enuff for you! :p

They was good enuff for Helen - and they'd better be good enuff for you! :p

Hah! But I am intellectually superior to Helen :p

Hah! But I am intellectually superior to Helen :p

Yes? :p

I didn't know of this Sparta until i was much older.
Athens had always been the Number one thing about Ancient Greece in fact it was always the first thing i thought of when i thought Ancient Greece, it being the cradle of Democracy and learning et cetera...

I adore the hard lifestyle of Sparta though.

Athens was gay but Sparta was manly gay.
:confused:

I choose Thebes!

Hah! But I am intellectually superior to Helen :p
You can't see that!:eek:

I choose Thebes!

Corinth, FTW!

You can't see that!:eek:


If it were true, how would it matter?

*tempted to come up with the most sexist joke ever*

Hah! But I am intellectually superior to Helen :p

Isn't the shining goal of every woman to break and destroy nations over her? :p

Isn't the shining goal of every woman to break and destroy nations over her? :p

Um, no. o_O

If it were true, how would it matter?

*tempted to come up with the most sexist joke ever*
Because Helen will get snarky and smote TBD and that would make me a sad Harlesy.:(

I choose Thebes!
um... thats in egypt.

Because Helen will get snarky and smote TBD and that would make me a sad Harlesy.:(


Helen's job is to be pwetty.
How does her braincontent matter, as long as the casing looks good?

I chose Athens, Sparta was way too warlike for me...And Athens wasn't?
Sparta was less warmongering than Athens. All Sparta wanted was to stop the threat from Athens, whereas Athens set out to start an empire of sorts. Sparta may have been militaristic, but they had too much of a reputation to risk going to war and loose.

Helen's job is to be pwetty.
How does her braincontent matter, as long as the casing looks good?

*Sigh* She's probably greatly exaggerated anyhow.

*Sigh* She's probably greatly exaggerated anyhow.Certainly after ten years of siege and god knows how many kids..

Certainly after ten years of siege and god knows how many kids..

*Nods*

Athens. They may have denied the franchise to women and slaves, but the Spartans were even more restrictive in their citizenship ... so much so that it was their downfall in the end. They couldn't field an effective army.

Any of you guys read Thucydides? I think the Peloponnesian War is a great historical story, personally I would prefere Sparta. Athens is a good example in our times of the dangers of direct democracy, in Athens it was unrestrained and subject to much strife, in which the demogogues became overtly influential. The Delian League which was formed as a fair organisation became the tool with which Athens created their empire and enslaved much of the Ionian coats and Aegean island states, Melos being a good example as to a people who were slaughtered to the last man because they were 'suspected' of being pro-Spartan. The democracy at Athens was responsible for the loss of life at Sicily in which tens of thousands of Athenians died because of incompetance in the assembly. Athens was responsible for the outbreak of the Peloponnesian War, even though Sparta initially declared, as Thucydides says 'It was the growth of Athens and Spartas fear' that caused it, they shouldnt have provoked revolt in the peloponnese either.

Um, no. o_O

I smell a conspiracy theory :p

I smell a conspiracy theory :p

What you don't know, can't hurt you ;)

Where to start. The Liberal in me hates having to sublimate to the will of collective thinking and the capitalist in me hates having to miss out on financial opportunities because of compulsory military service.

Now granted, there is one thing that sucks about the Athenians and that's ouzo but as disgusting as that is, it's a small price to pay for living in the lap of luxury and besides, the Spartans are best know for what? Delphi and Thermopylae. Hmmmm..... Delphi is is at best associated with a parricidal pervert and all the Spartans died at Thermopylae.

um... thats in egypt.

there was one in greece aswell. Was the head of the Boatian league. The city state to defeat the spartans at the battle a leuctra

there was one in greece aswell. Was the head of the Boatian league. The city state to defeat the spartans at the battle a leuctra


The one with the utterly gay legion - who coincidentally kicked behinds major-league.

The one with the utterly gay legion - who coincidentally kicked behinds major-league.

yes the Theban Sacred Band.

actually its not that they were gay.
I think it was the idea of a senior soldier bonding with a newer soldier. The idea was to create a strong bond amongst soldiers and extreme loyalty. Proved highly successful.
Most of the city states including sparta partook in pederasty.

yes the Theban Sacred Band.

actually its not that they were gay.
I think it was the idea of a senior soldier bonding with a newer soldier. The idea was to create a strong bond amongst soldiers and extreme loyalty. Proved highly successful.
Most of the city states including sparta partook in pederasty.


I'm thinking that Haetaroi definetely has sexual overtones.
Sowwy - the version in which these ties were non-sexual strike me as medieval re-writing.
The same kind of bowdlerisation as that of my greek professor way back when ( female twentysomething ) who stubbornly refused to admit that the reason for taking the likes of Cassandra and Andromache back to Hellas had nothing to do with scrubbing floors.

Oh the were sexual overtones. I'm sure most of them were lovers. Whether they consumated it I have no clue. That's what i meant by bond.
But it was not a matter of being straight or gay. They were expected to be pederasts. As i remember, they (many greeks) saw it as a great way for the older generation to pass on morals/values to the younger generation. But this did not mean that they did not marry and have children.

um... thats in egypt.
Heh heh heh...

Helen's job is to be pwetty.
How does her braincontent matter, as long as the casing looks good?
It probably doesn't but she'll get bitchy anyways because of her envy.
Your join date doesn't look right...

Anyways i am neither for i am of Troy!

Hey what about the Thespians. There role at Thermopylae is always overlooked...

Thespain: "Hey Leonides what is my motivation in this role?"

Leonides: "God I knew we should have tried for the Lesbians instead..."

I voted Sparta, cuz if i recall correctly, Sparta trained their women to fight. Sounds almost like equality for women, even if they did only do it cause they thought it would result in having more athletic sons.

Plus, Sparta was just so badass.
Yeah. Spartan men may have had "equal" woman, but then the same warrior men turned around and raped and killed Athenian woman after the conquer of Athens... so was it really "equality" towards woman?
And Athens philosophied the ways of the world and the human mind.. they didn't try to conquer the world and dictate or kill the human mind like Sparta.
And if you are wondering... yes I do have n00b pride. :)

And Athens philosophied the ways of the world and the human mind.. they didn't try to conquer the world and dictate or kill the human mind like Sparta. Uhh... yes they did. And Sparta wasn't interested in an empire, they just wanted to rule their horrible slave-state and keep training for battles that they were never really interested in fighting.

Anyway, I choose neither. My vote goes for Alcibiades! One of the most awesome guys in ancient history. He got to bone the Spartan king's wife!

Polltime!

What do you love more:

Those frolicking funloving hedonistic Athenians,

or those militaristic spartanic flesh-mortifying Spartans?

I prefer Rome myself... that and Atlantis (for those of you that don't know, Atlantis was real. Formerly reffered to as the Minoans, they had upstairs toilets and plumbing.) But Athens ain't too bad...

Gundge army vs. mp5s: Who will win?:headbang:
:mp5: :gundge:
:mp5: :gundge:
:mp5: :gundge:
:mp5: :gundge:

I prefer Rome myself... that and Atlantis (for those of you that don't know, Atlantis was real. Formerly reffered to as the Minoans, they had upstairs toilets and plumbing.) But Athens ain't too bad...

Gundge army vs. mp5s: Who will win?:headbang:
:mp5: :gundge:
:mp5: :gundge:
:mp5: :gundge:
:mp5: :gundge:


MP5. I'm the King of MP5 :mp5: PH34R ME NOOB!

I hate hedonists - unless I am on a trireme.