NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/07/28/seattle.shooting.ap/index.html

Excuse me for any mistakes i might make, this is my 1st thread.

"Five or six people were wounded, assistant police chief Jim Pugel said.

One person died, fire department spokeswoman Helen Fitzpatrick said.

One wounded woman was shot in the abdomen and another woman was hit in the arm, according to news accounts. Information on the others wounded was not immediately available.

A SWAT team searched the federation building, looking for any other victims, anyone hiding or any other possible shooters, police spokesman Rich Pruitt said.

Pruitt said he had no information on a motive. "Hopefully we can figure that out as this goes on," he said."

I also heard the suspect might be of Pakistani background, even if he wasn't there will probably be a backlash like in the Oklahoma City bombing when terrorism "experts" told the nation on Net. news that the attack was perpetrated by Arabs

I heard on the radio that another of the victims had died. They also said something about a victim being a pregnant woman, don't know if she was one who died or just wounded.

I heard on the radio that another of the victims had died. They also said something about a victim being a pregnant woman, don't know if she was one who died or just wounded.

I heard that too but I think(and hope) she was only wounded

Says here it is a P***

http://www.king5.com/topstories/stories/NW_072806WABshootingEL.3d89c1.html
Sources told KING 5 the suspect is a 31-year-old Pakistani man with a criminal background. He is from the Pasco but his citizenship status or how long he has lived in the United States is unknown. Also unknown is what sort of criminal record he has. Officials are on the way to the Pasco to interview his family.

According to the Seattle Times, a man got through security at the Jewish Federation and told staff members, "I'm a Muslim American; I'm angry at Israel," then began shooting, according to Amy Wasser-Simpson, the vice president for planning and community services for the Jewish Federation.

As you all know, Pakistan has a long history of victimization at the hands of the evil jews...

Says here it is a P***

http://www.king5.com/topstories/stories/NW_072806WABshootingEL.3d89c1.html


As you all know, Pakistan has a long history of victimization at the hands of the evil jews...

More proof that it's another World Caliphate Domination Plot by the Muslim Jihadi Borg Collective.

"We are Muslim. Resistance is Futile. You will be Allah-similated."

As you all know, Pakistan has a long history of victimization at the hands of the evil jews...
What's important to take away from all this is that Washington has the Death Penalty. And his choices are hanging (smart) or lethal injection (popular). What I really like about lethal injection is that it has the "reputation" of being humane, but it's probably a pretty awful way to go out. It's frequently botched as doctors will have nothing to do with it. Often resulting in people not being anesthetized as a caustic chemical is pumped into their body. So yeah, they can't breathe, are entirely conscious of the pain and feel like they're being burned alive. Good times.

Another crazy fellow... THROW HIM TO THE LIONS! :eek:

More proof that it's another World Caliphate Domination Plot by the Muslim Jihadi Borg Collective.

"We are Muslim. Resistance is Futile. You will be Allah-similated."

Oh boy Gauth that's funny, I don't care who ya're!

INBTBROPA

(In before the Brutal religion of peace apologists)


Another crazy fellow... THROW HIM TO THE LIONS! :eek:

After he is force fed bacon and given over to the Mossad for an hour. Yes.

Says here it is a P***

http://www.king5.com/topstories/stories/NW_072806WABshootingEL.3d89c1.html


As you all know, Pakistan has a long history of victimization at the hands of the evil jews...

bah when will people realize that Jews=/=Israel, another senseless(sp.?) act of violence from ignorant generalization
"I am a muslim who is mad at Israel so I'm gonna shoot you who have no connection to Israel"
He might as well have opened fire in a mosque or a walmart :P

What's important to take away from all this is that Washington has the Death Penalty. And his choices are hanging (smart) or lethal injection (popular). What I really like about lethal injection is that it has the "reputation" of being humane, but it's probably a pretty awful way to go out. It's frequently botched as doctors will have nothing to do with it. Often resulting in people not being anesthetized as a caustic chemical is pumped into their body. So yeah, they can't breathe, are entirely conscious of the pain and feel like they're being burned alive. Good times.

Or we could set him upon the table for lethal injection,
then we release the starved lions with AIDS
APRIL FOOL! rawr

It's people like this joker who make it so hard to publicly criticise Israel

Or we could set him upon the table for lethal injection,
then we release the starved lions with AIDS
APRIL FOOL! rawr

Why not just hang him or behead him... oh wait, that's "barbaric."

bah when will people realize that Jews=/=Israel, another senseless(sp.?) act of violence from ignorant generalization
"I am a muslim who is mad at Israel so I'm gonna shoot you who have no connection to Israel"
He might as well have opened fire in a mosque or a walmart :P

If he opened fire in a mosque, he'd have been lauded as a hero, the Next Baruch Goldstein.

If he opened fire in a mosque, he'd have been lauded as a hero, the Next Baruch Goldstein.

Your probably right, but the point I was trying to make was that the victims of this shooting had no rational connection to Israel they just happened to be the same religion(or maybe some of them weren't I dunno) as the majority of the people in Israel I'm sick and tired of jews being blamed for whats happening in Lebenon that generalization is just as bad as the "All muslims are terrorists one"

Excuse me for any mistakes i might make, this is my 1st thread.

I remember my first thread all those months ago.... *sniff*

Oh no, the Jews are being persecuted again!:eek:
Please.:rolleyes:

Oh no, the Jews are being persecuted again!:eek:
Please.:rolleyes:
exactly... what's a few murders amongst civilized people. What do those damn jews want anyway?

Oh no, the Jews are being persecuted again!:eek:
Please.:rolleyes:

You J00-Hating Muslim NeoNazi!! Didn't you know the Allies just uncovered Auschwitz yesterday!?

If he opened fire in a mosque, he'd have been lauded as a hero, the Next Baruch Goldstein.


Baruch Goldstein was no hero and is not considered to be by Jews. His ideology, called Kahanism is actually banned from Israel. What point were you trying to make again Gaut?

Baruch Goldstein was no hero and is not considered to be by Jews.

That's an awfully broad statement. He is not considered a hero by most Jews. There are exceptions.

Baruch Goldstein was no hero and is not considered to be by Jews. His ideology, called Kahanism is actually banned from Israel. What point were you trying to make again Gaut?
Well, of course. That's why when you google his name, this is one of the first sites to come up:
http://www.geocities.com/dr_b_goldstein/kever.htm
Has such lines as:
On the Feast of Purim (February 1994), Dr. Baruch Goldstein, dressed as an army officer, entered the Tomb of the Patriarchs, and shot to death 29 Arabs and wounded approximately a hundred more. It is our great misfortune that Dr. Baruch Goldstein may G-D avenge his blood, who was brutally murdered by the Arabs is no longer with us
...
the gravestone which eulogizes Dr. Goldstein and proclaims him as a Holy Hero
...
Over the years, (Baruch Goldstein's) grave has become a site of pilgrimage. Numerous people from all over the world come to pray and honor his memory.
...
During the Feast of Purim, The Friends of Goldstein are going to celebrate a feast near his grave to honor him, in appreciation of him.

Yep. Definitely no Jews laud him, do they?

Baruch Goldstein was no hero and is not considered to be by Jews. His ideology, called Kahanism is actually banned from Israel. What point were you trying to make again Gaut?

In Israel perhaps, but if any amount of inference can be taken from NS General such a disgusting notion would be entertained more in the United States. After all, why would people who either call for the extermination of a religious ethnicity like they were roach infestations or advocate sacriligeous defilement of a subject before execution find it repugnant?

EDIT: The post above mine highlighting the pilgrimage to Goldstein's gravesite adds a little more emphasis on my point. When killing Jews it's a hate crime, when killing Muslims it's a celebration.

Yep. Definitely no Jews laud him, do they?

Most certainly we don't! What you described was disgusting! Jews do not hate Muslims! In fact, we consider them to be in roughly the same boat we are! Judaism advocates peace, tolerance, kindness, fairness, and brotherhood. Have you ever read any prayers? Please next time learn facts before you jump to conclusions and start calling racist bastards Jews, because that is an extreme oxymoron. If you're a racist, then regardless of what you may claim, you are not a Jew. It's that simple.

When killing Jews it's a hate crime, when killing Muslims it's a celebration.

Most certainly not! You are sick! You disgust me! If someone's killing Muslims, because they are Muslims, then it is, without the slightest fringe of doubt, a hate crime. No Jew would ever celebrate someone's death, because that person is of a different religion! We've taken far more than our fare share of that, and, trust me, we would never ever commit anything of the sort on anyone! And if there's some group that is, then they are simply some kind of a middle-eastern equivalent of the KKK. I can't beleive you would even entertain the notion...

You J00-Hating Muslim NeoNazi!! Didn't you know the Allies just uncovered Auschwitz yesterday!?

-Hold on a sec.- Are you actually denying the Holocaust?!?

That's an awfully broad statement. He is not considered a hero by most Jews. There are exceptions.

As I already stated, if such exceptions exist, they would be no more than some kind of an equivalent of the K.K.K. Calling any people such as those you mentioned "Jews" would be the same as calling members of K.K.K. "Christians." They're not. They burn crosses. THe people you mention break every single principal ever even so much as invovled in Judaism. They are not Jews.

No Jew would ever celebrate someone's death
Welcome to NS General. It's statements like this that will make you one of the great ones.

Welcome to NS General. It's statements like this that will make you one of the great ones.

Great what?

Great what?
That is entirely up to you, but it doesn't look good this far...

Most certainly not! You are sick! You disgust me! If someone's killing Muslims, because they are Muslims, then it is, without the slightest fringe of doubt, a hate crime. No Jew would ever celebrate someone's death, because that person is of a different religion! We've taken far more than our fare share of that, and, trust me, we would never ever commit anything of the sort on anyone! And if there's some group that is, then they are simply some kind of a middle-eastern equivalent of the KKK. I can't beleive you would even entertain the notion...He's refuting the point that there are no jews that celebrate Goldstein. This is not the same as saying "all jews celebrate Goldstein" or "most jews celebrate Goldstein". It's saying "some jews, perhaps a very small minority, celebrate Goldstein".

As I already stated, if such exceptions exist, they would be no more than some kind of an equivalent of the K.K.K. Calling any people such as those you mentioned "Jews" would be the same as calling members of K.K.K. "Christians." They're not. They burn crosses.

Yes, they are. The right-wing extremists who venerate Goldstein are Jews, the KKK is Christian, and al-Qaeda, Hamas, etc. are made up of Muslims. Other people might interpret the religion differently, but they still fall into the category.

THe people you mention break every single principal ever even so much as invovled in Judaism.

No, they don't. Like pretty much everybody else, they interpret things in a way that's convenient for their ideology. There's plenty of material for them to use - destroy the Amalekites, kill the inhabitants of the land you will conquer, etc.

That is entirely up to you, but it doesn't look good this far...

"You mean the "debate?" I agree. It seems that most of it is just a vent for racism. Sadly, though, I don't think I have enough evidence in any single post to report anyone. (If you feel differently, please tell me.) I am basically trying to act as a fire extinguisher and put this out. It seems, however, that none of the people that I have quoted are actually still in this thread, so I won't be able to try to get them to understand that what they're saying is racism.

Most certainly not! You are sick! You disgust me! If someone's killing Muslims, because they are Muslims, then it is, without the slightest fringe of doubt, a hate crime. No Jew would ever celebrate someone's death, because that person is of a different religion! We've taken far more than our fare share of that, and, trust me, we would never ever commit anything of the sort on anyone! And if there's some group that is, then they are simply some kind of a middle-eastern equivalent of the KKK. I can't beleive you would even entertain the notion...

Calm down. He is not attacking all Jews. He is attacking some Jews - namely, the ones who have bigoted attitudes. They exist.

Right. Well, while you are waiting for them to get back, you could try sparring and convince me why they are racists. Please proceed.

No Jew would ever celebrate someone's death, because that person is of a different religion!
At Goldstein's eulogy Rabbi Dov Lior, stated, "Goldstein could not continue to bear the humiliations and shame nowadays inflicted upon us; this was why he took action for no other reason than to sanctify the holy name of God."

I'm a bit confused here. Rabbis are members of which religion again?

Goldstein's tombstone reads (translated from Hebrew):
Here lies the saint, Dr. Baruch Kappel Goldstein, blessed be the memory of the righteous and holy man, may the Lord avenge his blood, who devoted his soul to the Jews, Jewish religion and Jewish land. His hands are innocent and his heart is pure. He was killed as a martyr of God on the 14th of Adar, Purim, in the year 5754 (1994).

He's refuting the point that there are no jews that celebrate Goldstein. This is not the same as saying "all jews celebrate Goldstein" or "most jews celebrate Goldstein". It's saying "some jews, perhaps a very small minority, celebrate Goldstein".


Amongst the thousands of people I know, I have never heard of a single one who does. Additionally, I have never received any information that there is a current problem involving racist Jews. And with the people I know, (who are both very into tolerance and equality and in constant persuit of spreading it) I'm sure I would have heard something. What I'm saying is: If such a group of racist Jews does exist, it is small enough that it warning or notification of it has never even occurred in any Jewish newspaper or magazine. (Certainly in America, anyway.) What I'm saying is that what you've described would appear to be a small group of no more than maybe sixty or so worldwide. That certainly doesn't even count as a minor minority group within the Jewish population.

Welcome to NS General. It's statements like this that will make you one of the great ones.
Times like this, I wish Drunk Commies would ressurect his Jesussaves troll.
Or Unabassordship or MKULTRA to come back.
Then we could have an all-in troll-fest!

Amongst the thousands of people I know, I have never heard of a single one who does. Additionally, I have never received any information that there is a current problem involving racist Jews. And with the people I know, (who are both very into tolerance and equality and in constant persuit of spreading it) I'm sure I would have heard something. What I'm saying is: If such a group of racist Jews does exist, it is small enough that it warning or notification of it has never even occurred in any Jewish newspaper or magazine. (Certainly in America, anyway.) What I'm saying is that what you've described would appear to be a small group of no more than maybe sixty or so worldwide. That certainly doesn't even count as a minor minority group within the Jewish population.

Google "Meir Kahane."

If such a group of racist Jews does exist, it is... ...no more than maybe sixty or so worldwide.
You are quite right. Calm down. Don't let these racists get to you.

EDIT: I checked it out, and it's more like 45.

Yes, they are. The right-wing extremists who venerate Goldstein are Jews, the KKK is Christian, and al-Qaeda, Hamas, etc. are made up of Muslims. Other people might interpret the religion differently, but they still fall into the category.



No, they don't. Like pretty much everybody else, they interpret things in a way that's convenient for their ideology. There's plenty of material for them to use - destroy the Amalekites, kill the inhabitants of the land you will conquer, etc.

I have also been involved in a number of threads attempting to inform people that "Muslim terrorists" are not real Muslims. They claim to be, but they violate all of the laws of Islam, and are more detrimental to their own religion than any other group in the world. Basically, it's the same thing. While perhaps you feel differently, I would never consider any genocidal maniac to be considered a member of any decent religion. Just because you say so does not make you part of any particular religion.

That shooting occurred at 3rd St. between Virginia and Lenora avenues. That's right near one of my favorite places, Jazz Alley (6th & Lenora).

It's never a good thing when stupidity, anger and instability mix.

Nobody should have to die in such a sudden, irrational way. I know they have, do, and will continue to, but that doesn't make it any less frustrating, sad and depressing.

At Goldstein's eulogy Rabbi Dov Lior, stated, "Goldstein could not continue to bear the humiliations and shame nowadays inflicted upon us; this was why he took action for no other reason than to sanctify the holy name of God."

I'm a bit confused here. Rabbis are members of which religion again?

Goldstein's tombstone reads (translated from Hebrew):

First of all, his friends and family (other member of his little racist cult who obviously support him wrote his tombstone. That means nothing to a religion as a whole.

Secondly, that is not a real Rabbi. There are rules for being a Rabbi. His statement and actions violate them. He may have been a Rabbi once, but he would certainly have been defrocked. It is possible that he is still claiming to be a Rabbi.

Perhaps this would work for a comparison: He is to a Rabbi what people like Abu Musab Al-Zarquawi are to Clerics. Except additionally, this so called "Rabbi" would have lost his authority, making him just a name.

That shooting occurred at 3rd St. between Virginia and Lenora avenues. That's right near one of my favorite places, Jazz Alley (6th & Lenora).

It's never a good thing when stupidity, anger and instability mix.

Nobody should have to die in such a sudden, irrational way. I know they have, do, and will continue to, but that doesn't make it any more frustrating, sad and depressing.

...Any less, perhaps?

You are quite right. Calm down. Don't let these racists get to you.

EDIT: I checked it out, and it's more like 45.

Thanks.

That shooting occurred at 3rd St. between Virginia and Lenora avenues. That's right near one of my favorite places, Jazz Alley (6th & Lenora).

It's never a good thing when stupidity, anger and instability mix.

Nobody should have to die in such a sudden, irrational way. I know they have, do, and will continue to, but that doesn't make it any more frustrating, sad and depressing.

Agreed.

...Any less, perhaps?

I think that's what he meant.

I think that's what he meant.

I know, I was correcting him.

I know, I was correcting him.

Ah, sorry.

I live about 45 minutes from Seattle. I was watching my local channel when it was interupted, to show me the story of the shooting at the jewish Federation building. Id suspect the culprit to be Hezbollah supporter(s). Am I correct?

I live about 45 minutes from Seattle. I was watching my local channel when it was interupted, to show me the story of the shooting at the jewish Federation building. Id suspect the culprit to be Hezbollah supporter(s). Am I correct?

The gunman surrendered. He's a lone Pakistani.

I live about 45 minutes from Seattle. I was watching my local channel when it was interupted, to show me the story of the shooting at the jewish Federation building. Id suspect the culprit to be Hezbollah supporter(s). Am I correct?

It was apparently some Pakistani-American extremist (who authorities say acted alone) who basically told them that he hates Israel, and then started killing non-Israeli Jewish women as some kind of retribution. The guy is clearly more than a little "off."

...Any less, perhaps?
Holy smeg. YES, any LESS! My ridiculous bad. I'm sorry!


EDIT: referenced post now corrected. D'oy!

In Israel perhaps, but if any amount of inference can be taken from NS General such a disgusting notion would be entertained more in the United States. After all, why would people who either call for the extermination of a religious ethnicity like they were roach infestations or advocate sacriligeous defilement of a subject before execution find it repugnant?

EDIT: The post above mine highlighting the pilgrimage to Goldstein's gravesite adds a little more emphasis on my point. When killing Jews it's a hate crime, when killing Muslims it's a celebration.


The intentional killing of civilians is wrong, whether you're a Muslim or a Jew. Sometimes, such as in times of war, civilians do die and that's terrible. If the terrorists didn't hide among them, we wouldn't be seeing this problem.

No one is calling for the extermination of Muslims. Islamic terrorists happen to be Islamic, and hence Muslim. Celebrating the death of Islamic terrorists by no means advocating kiling Muslims in general, rather just those who defile their religion by murdering innocents purposely.

The intentional killing of civilians is wrong, whether you're a Muslim or a Jew. Sometimes, such as in times of war, civilians do die and that's terrible. If the terrorists didn't hide among them, we wouldn't be seeing this problem.

No one is calling for the extermination of Muslims. Islamic terrorists happen to be Islamic, and hence Muslim. Celebrating the death of Islamic terrorists by no means advocating kiling Muslims in general, rather just those who defile their religion by murdering innocents purposely.I disagree. I find that Hezbullah is responsible for the deaths of those two Arab children they killed even though they didn't intend it.

It's people like this joker who make it so hard to publicly criticise Israel

See? That is where public 'criticism' of Israel leads to: terrorism.

No one is calling for the extermination of Muslims. Islamic terrorists happen to be Islamic, and hence Muslim. Celebrating the death of Islamic terrorists by no means advocating kiling Muslims in general, rather just those who defile their religion by murdering innocents purposely.

You've read Deep Kimchi before. Unless he's a nobody :D

The intentional killing of civilians is wrong, whether you're a Muslim or a Jew. Sometimes, such as in times of war, civilians do die and that's terrible. If the terrorists didn't hide among them, we wouldn't be seeing this problem.

No one is calling for the extermination of Muslims. Islamic terrorists happen to be Islamic, and hence Muslim. Celebrating the death of Islamic terrorists by no means advocating kiling Muslims in general, rather just those who defile their religion by murdering innocents purposely.

*snorts* what the matter is with those punks is not that they are islamic, what is with those punks is that they are islamists ( aka Foundamentalists, as the more liberal moslims call 'em ).

Well I expected this sort of thing to happen in London as most British Jew's support the war, marching in support of Israel and most British Muslim's are very much against it.

Why are people flaming Jews in this thread? Is another neo-Nazi invasion of NS General underway?

I also heard the suspect might be of Pakistani background, even if he wasn't there will probably be a backlash like in the Oklahoma City bombing when terrorism "experts" told the nation on Net. news that the attack was perpetrated by Arabs
Pakistanis aren't Arabs.

Oh boy Gauth that's funny, I don't care who ya're!

INBTBROPA

(In before the Brutal religion of peace apologists)

Peace apologists? You don't think that this criminal incident could really be used to justify another war, do you?

Peace has nothing to do with it.

If he opened fire in a mosque, he'd have been lauded as a hero
By who?

Why do you always exaggerate Islamophobia in America? If I were to believe you, I would think that pogroms against Muslims were rife, with the first death camp to open next week.

After all, why would people who either call for the extermination of a religious ethnicity like they were roach infestations or advocate sacriligeous defilement of a subject before execution find it repugnant?
The people in your imagination?

EDIT: The post above mine highlighting the pilgrimage to Goldstein's gravesite adds a little more emphasis on my point. When killing Jews it's a hate crime, when killing Muslims it's a celebration.
Then why is there a man on death row in Texas for opening fire on a Bangladeshi, in an openly Islamophobic attack?

No, he's not being punished at all. :rolleyes:

You've read Deep Kimchi before. Unless he's a nobody :D
Even on his worst days he doesn't call for that. The absolute worst I've seen him is saying that nuclear bombs should be dropped on about 4 or 5 Middle Eastern countries. Which would make up about 10% of the Muslim population.

Deep Kimchi makes an exceptionally vile suggestion, but not the extermination of all Muslims.

See? That is where public 'criticism' of Israel leads to: terrorism.
The people in the west who criticise Israel have fuck-all to do with terrorism. Besides, as Europeans we have the right to criticise any country we want.

Peace apologists? You don't think that this criminal incident could really be used to justify another war, do you?

Peace has nothing to do with it.

It's just another smug arrogant statement saying that Islam is a savage and brutal religion with no redeeming values whatsoever and that anyone who thinks otherwise is an apologist for murderers.

By who?

By the same mentality of people who celebrate Baruch Goldstein as a hero and make pilgrimages to his grave.

Why do you always exaggerate Islamophobia in America? If I were to believe you, I would think that pogroms against Muslims were rife, with the first death camp to open next week.

And I am one to believe if the political climate were ripe enough, it would happen. After all, the Japanese were interned in camps during World War 2 simply because they were the same ethnicities as the country that bombed the shit out of Pearl Harbor.

The people in your imagination?

While I have no idea of everyone who would believe such things in the world overall, here on General Deep Kimchi advocates the former (and he brags about his coworkers agreeding that it's a great idea) and Designated Marksman advocates the latter. Of course they could just be imaginary people in which case the world would be a better place.

Then why is there a man on death row in Texas for opening fire on a Bangladeshi, in an openly Islamophobic attack?

No, he's not being punished at all. :rolleyes:

I was not saying that murderers of innocent Muslims get away with the crime. That statement was an observation on a disturbing trend in attitude regarding Muslims in the West.

Even on his worst days he doesn't call for that. The absolute worst I've seen him is saying that nuclear bombs should be dropped on about 4 or 5 Middle Eastern countries. Which would make up about 10% of the Muslim population.

Deep Kimchi makes an exceptionally vile suggestion, but not the extermination of all Muslims.

That's because you probably don't even know the posts exist:

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10379145&postcount=29

Probably not practical to do to a little over a billion people.

I have a better idea.

Develop a virus that has no other effect on the infected person other than sterilizing them. Make a vaccine for your own populations, but tell them it is a vaccination for something else.

Then spray that virus all over every Muslim nation, and any other nation you really don't like.

Inside of a generation, there's going to be a profound effect. You won't be killing anyone - they just won't be reproducing anymore.

So he didn't advocate the extermination of a religious ethnicity, even through allegedly nonviolent methods?

The people in the west who criticise Israel have fuck-all to do with terrorism. Besides, as Europeans we have the right to criticise any country we want.

His way of saying Criticizing Israel = Supporting Terrorism.

More proof that it's another World Caliphate Domination Plot by the Muslim Jihadi Borg Collective.

"We are Muslim. Resistance is Futile. You will be Allah-similated."
Laugh at it all you want, but there are elements in Islam that believe Islam is intended by god to be the world's religion and culture. Those elements aren't just the fringe terrorist groups, but also many "ordinary Muslims".

Pakistanis aren't Arabs.


You think most of us ignorant americans can make that distinction?
over here your lucky if they can tell Indians from arabs

I was talking about the OK city bombing by Timothy Mcveigh(sp.?) when a bunch of idiots in the media said it was clearly an attack by arab terrorists and there were a bunch of hate crimes against local arabs

It's tragic but hardly surprising. Just more of the usual from the religion of peace.

See? That is where public 'criticism' of Israel leads to: terrorism.

And oppression of criticism is the traits of a dictatorship. Or a Caliphite.

Just like you to want things like that.

You've read Deep Kimchi before. Unless he's a nobody :D

You can find exceptions to every rule. When I said no one suppports the killing of all Muslims, I meant no main stream group in the US or Israel advocates the killing of all Muslims.

only 65 posts and my 1st threads already dying


*sniff*they grow up so fast!*sniff*

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003160605_shooting29m1.html

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2006/07/28/2003160392.jpg

A law-enforcement source identified the arrested suspect as Naveed Afzal Haq, 30, who until recently had lived in Everett, and said Haq apparently has a history of mental illness. Court records show Haq has a charge of lewd conduct pending against him in Benton County.

The shooting came a day after the FBI had warned Jewish organizations nationwide to be on alert after Hezbollah leaders in Lebanon and al-Qaida's second in command urged that the war raging in the Middle East be carried to the U.S. However, the law-enforcement source, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said there is no evidence Haq was involved with any group.

"He said he hates Israel," said the source, who is part of the Seattle Joint Terrorism Task Force, which was called in to help investigate the shootings.

David Gomez, the assistant special agent-in-charge of the Seattle FBI office, said there is "nothing to indicate he is part of a larger organization."

"We believe he is a lone individual with antagonism toward this organization," said Gomez.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003160605_shooting29m1.html

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2006/07/28/2003160392.jpg

History of mental illness... that explains a lot

I didn't know it was a hostage situation at least the S.W.A.T. managed to talk him down could have been a massacre

It's just another smug arrogant statement saying that Islam is a savage and brutal religion with no redeeming values whatsoever and that anyone who thinks otherwise is an apologist for murderers.
DM spends most of his time on this forum apologising for murderers.

By the same mentality of people who celebrate Baruch Goldstein as a hero and make pilgrimages to his grave.
A number of people so small and powerless as to not even warrant thought.

And I am one to believe if the political climate were ripe enough, it would happen. After all, the Japanese were interned in camps during World War 2 simply because they were the same ethnicities as the country that bombed the shit out of Pearl Harbor.
So you're claiming that what *might* happen in the future is what is currently happening now?

Reality > Fantasy

While I have no idea of everyone who would believe such things in the world overall, here on General Deep Kimchi advocates the former
Whoa, scary. I hope he's not serious.

I was not saying that murderers of innocent Muslims get away with the crime. That statement was an observation on a disturbing trend in attitude regarding Muslims in the West.
You said
When killing Jews it's a hate crime, when killing Muslims it's a celebration.
Despite the fact that to most people, killing Muslims for being Muslim is unquestionably a hate crime. Not a celebration. I'm not seeing this trend you speak of.

DM spends most of his time on this forum apologising for murderers.


A number of people so small and powerless as to not even warrant thought.

Underestimating fanatics is always a very bad move. Aum Shinri Kyo were relatively small but they weren't powerless when they spread sarin in the Tokyo subway. The Branch Davidians were relatively small and they held the federal government in a 60+ days standoff that ended tragically. And I believe that the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ and the Latter Day Saints (the Warren Jeffs cult, not mainstream Mormons) will be another confrontation waiting to happen.

Never underestimate fanatics, especially by size alone.


So you're claiming that what *might* happen in the future is what is currently happening now?

Reality > Fantasy

It's called anticipating and strategy. If we dismissed things that might happen because they're not confirmed, we'd have had a lot more than Pearl Harbor, the two WTC attacks and Oklahoma City. If you can predict what seems logically possible, then you can prepare for it accordingly. Otherwise why bother with security in the first place if the possibility of attacks are "Fantasy" in the first place?

Whoa, scary. I hope he's not serious.

He'd dead serious unfortunately, and he claims to have coworkers who agree with him on the idea. He also claims it has nothing to do with morality and everything with pragmatism. Which would be logical if the United States was not constantly preaching morality to the rest of the world and holding itself as a bastion of such ideals.


Despite the fact that to most people, killing Muslims for being Muslim is unquestionably a hate crime. Not a celebration. I'm not seeing this trend you speak of.

Aside from Ann Coulter's infamous "Kill their leaders and convert them all to Christianity" rant, the lack of Western call for condemning anti-Islamic hate crime speaks volumes. It uses the same logic as the "If they don't all condemn it they all support it" rationalization that people paint all Muslims with regarding terrorism.

The shooter's parents are my next door neighbors and I'd actually seen him over there before (though I'd never talked to him).

Long story short, last night was made interesting by the fact that a few local sheriffs and FBI agents were spending a good chunk of time over at our neighbors conducting a search.

I could go on forever about what's gone on and what I've heard, but I'll shorten it to a few points.

1. His parents are Pakastani and Muslim and his dad was actually a founder of a local muslim organization here.

2. That said, I ran into one of the shooter's old friends tonight at a barbecue, and she said that he wasn't religious at all and never went to church (I'm sure she meant mosque). She was shocked that he could have done something like this, saying that he always seemed like a normal guy and they had just hung out with him a month or so ago and didn't even realize that he'd moved to the other side of the state. However, when I asked her about his criminal record and mental illness that I heard about in the news, she mentioned that she had heard that he was bipolar and once exposed himself (in an, "aggressive" way), and that that was how he had gotten his criminal record.

3. His dad called my parents tonight and was very sad and apologetic. They were very apologetic to us about the police around (it, of course, was no problem for us... nothing compared to what they were going through) and said they felt terrible for the families of the victims. He also said that their son had always been difficult to raise. The parents have always seemed like really nice, quiet, reasonable, well off people. (though we did have issues with the wife before they moved in, but that's a different story -- certainly nothing of the murderous sort.)


Anyway, what I gather from this is that the killing was more to do with the fact that the man was mentally ill (rather than Islamic fanatacism). It's hard to imagine that an American man (born and raised here), who wasn't even a practicing muslim, and was a son of very reasonable parents, would want to shoot random Jews for actions that were happening all the way around the world. However, it makes more sense knowing that he was mentally ill.

The intentional killing of civilians is wrong, whether you're a Muslim or a Jew. Sometimes, such as in times of war, civilians do die and that's terrible. If the terrorists didn't hide among them, we wouldn't be seeing this problem.

No one is calling for the extermination of Muslims. Islamic terrorists happen to be Islamic, and hence Muslim. Celebrating the death of Islamic terrorists by no means advocating kiling Muslims in general, rather just those who defile their religion by murdering innocents purposely.

Yes, and if the israeli's marched on the streets of lebanon, giving hezbollah the ability to target the IDF, rather then just being able to launch dumb rockets at very general israeli targets, they wouldn't be killing israeli citizens. When israel goes into lebanon, hezbollah is out there to fight them, and try to win.

They don't have an airforce with percision munitions, etc, to accurately bomb the IDF. They are doing as much damage as they can with their meek ability.

Yes, and if the israeli's marched on the streets of lebanon, giving hezbollah the ability to target the IDF, rather then just being able to launch dumb rockets at very general israeli targets, they wouldn't be killing israeli citizens. When israel goes into lebanon, hezbollah is out there to fight them, and try to win.

They don't have an airforce with percision munitions, etc, to accurately bomb the IDF. They are doing as much damage as they can with their meek ability.
Of course, since they don't have anything other than dumb munitions that makes it perfectly ok for them to use them?

What sense does that make?

Of course, since they don't have anything other than dumb munitions that makes it perfectly ok for them to use them?

What sense does that make?

perfectly ok? I didn't say that.

What I'm saying is, they are fighting to the best of their ability. So is the IDF/IAF. The Hezz is using its most advanced munitions to attack israel, and israel is using its most advanced munitions to attack hezz.

The Hezz don't have the ability to really lessen israeli civilian casualties without attacking less, by reason of their capability. The IAF doesn't have the ability to really lessen lebanese civilian casualties without attacking less, by reason that the hezz has their bases in civilian areas, etc.

My point is, both sides are hitting civilians because their situation doesn't really allow them not to. The post I quoted was saying "If they stopped hiding among civilians, then civilians wouldn't be getting killed". True, but both sides are killing civilians because the other side is making it harder to kill the armed forces of that side.

But you can't quite expect either side to stand around and just get obliterated. While its sad that they have to resort to these kinds of things, both sides are at similar moral levels.