NationStates Jolt Archive

A friend of mine was locked up yesterday. Another prisoner of the war on drugs. Yeah, he sold cocaine, but he also did alot of positive things. He owned a couple of houses that family and friends lived in for very low rents. Really just enough to cover property tax. He loaned out tools to the homeless folks in the neighborhood so they could make a few bucks doing odd jobs. He also was quick to give people a loan or a little renovation or cleaning job so that they could feed themselves. Now he's up on drug and weapons charges and won't be able to help anyone out for some time unless the case gets thrown out. Anyone who thinks that drugs are a clear cut issue should consider this situation.

A friend of mine was locked up yesterday. Another prisoner of the war on drugs. Yeah, he sold cocaine, but he also did alot of positive things. He owned a couple of houses that family and friends lived in for very low rents. Really just enough to cover property tax. He loaned out tools to the homeless folks in the neighborhood so they could make a few bucks doing odd jobs. He also was quick to give people a loan or a little renovation or cleaning job so that they could feed themselves. Now he's up on drug and weapons charges and won't be able to help anyone out for some time unless the case gets thrown out. Anyone who thinks that drugs are a clear cut issue should consider this situation.
Is he is Gitmo?

Is he is Gitmo?
No, he's in the Mercer county Workhouse (county jail) right now unless he posted bail today. He's not a prisoner of the war on terrorism, he's a prisoner of the war on drugs.

A friend of mine was locked up yesterday. Another prisoner of the war on drugs. Yeah, he sold cocaine, but he also did alot of positive things.
Cocaine dealers destroy lives. No sympathy from me.

Is he is Gitmo?
The vast majority of people in prison in the US are there as the result of the "war on drugs".

It isn't effective either - at no time during the "war on drugs" has the price of any street drug really been affected (i.e., the supply is still quite available), nor have the number of users declined.

Cocaine dealers destroy lives. No sympathy from me.
Cigarette companies do too. Same as alcohol breweries and distilleries, casinos, and other legitimate companies. It's nowhere near as black and white as you seem to think.

No, he's in the Mercer county Workhouse (county jail) right now unless he posted bail today. He's not a prisoner of the war on terrorism, he's a prisoner of the war on drugs.

Careful. That cocaine he was selling could have come from Colombia.... Colombia... FARC.....FARC... terrorists.. WAR ON TERROR!!11!1

Theres your linkage :eek: :eek:

Glad I played all those games of 6 degrees of Seperation... oh yeah. ;)

A friend of mine was locked up yesterday. Another prisoner of the war on drugs. Yeah, he sold cocaine, but he also did alot of positive things. He owned a couple of houses that family and friends lived in for very low rents. Really just enough to cover property tax. He loaned out tools to the homeless folks in the neighborhood so they could make a few bucks doing odd jobs. He also was quick to give people a loan or a little renovation or cleaning job so that they could feed themselves. Now he's up on drug and weapons charges and won't be able to help anyone out for some time unless the case gets thrown out. Anyone who thinks that drugs are a clear cut issue should consider this situation.

My brother died from an overdose of cocaine , he was 34 and had a duaghter one year old .

" yeah he sold cocaine and he went up on drug and weapons charges".

Al Capone did a bunch of charity work ..so did joey merlino and every other gangster and mob guy I know...What makes you think that cancells out the bad ?

Sorry, I don't cry for your friend.

I deal with the victims of the likes of your friend on a daily basis.

There is no such thing as excess in punishment for vile scum who sell cocain.


I save my tears and sympathy for those who are in families that are destroyed by cocain.

why would other good deeds offset committing a crime? you dont get a "get out of jail free card" for doing good works. he sells cocaine, he belongs in prison.

My brother died from an overdose of cocaine , he was 34 and had a duaghter one year old .

" yeah he sold cocaine and he went up on drug and weapons charges".

Al Capone did a bunch of charity work ..so did joey merlino and every other gangster and mob guy I know...What makes you think that cancells out the bad ?
I'm sorry for you and your brother's family, but not everyone who does cocaine ends up dead. Just like not everyone who drinks ends up running into a carload of kids and killing them.

A friend of mine was locked up yesterday. Another prisoner of the war on drugs. Yeah, he sold cocaine, but he also did alot of positive things. He owned a couple of houses that family and friends lived in for very low rents. Really just enough to cover property tax. He loaned out tools to the homeless folks in the neighborhood so they could make a few bucks doing odd jobs. He also was quick to give people a loan or a little renovation or cleaning job so that they could feed themselves. Now he's up on drug and weapons charges and won't be able to help anyone out for some time unless the case gets thrown out. Anyone who thinks that drugs are a clear cut issue should consider this situation.
Ok. I've "considered this situation" and drugs are a clear-cut issue.

Take some responsibility. It is not the fault of the dealers that their clients are on drugs. It is the client's fault. If they end up dead because of their addiction, it is still their fault.

I know it's not a popular opinion, because people like to shift the blame onto others when someone close to them dies. But you have to realise that the drug user had a choice.

I'm sorry for you and your brother's family, but not everyone who does cocaine ends up dead. Just like not everyone who drinks ends up running into a carload of kids and killing them.

Last I checked, getting behind the wheel of a car after you've been drinking excessively is illegal, and thus deserved of punishment. Selling cocaine, is a criminal action, and certainly any 'good deeds' that your friend undertakes should be taken into consideration if he undergoes sentencing.

Take some responsibility. It is not the fault of the dealers that their clients are on drugs. It is the clients fault. If they end up dead because of their addiction, it is still their fault.

I know its not a popular opinion, because people like to shift the blame onto others when someone close to them dies. But you have to realise that the drug user had a choice.
That's true. Nobody tries to blame the beer companies when someone drives drunk. They expect the drunk to take responsibility.

Take some responsibility. It is not the fault of the dealers that their clients are on drugs. It is the client's fault. If they end up dead because of their addiction, it is still their fault.

I know it's not a popular opinion, because people like to shift the blame onto others when someone close to them dies. But you have to realise that the drug user had a choice.

That's why the drug use is also a criminal action.

I'm sorry for you and your brother's family, but not everyone who does cocaine ends up dead. Just like not everyone who drinks ends up running into a carload of kids and killing them.


you definitely have a point there. people complain about these illegal drugs, when the legal ones kill more.....

tobacco kills a hell of a lot more people than most banned substances if not all.

That's why the drug use is also a criminal action.
Which I find stupid. It's their body, let them wreck it how they see fit.

Which I find stupid. It's their body, let them wreck it how they see fit.


exactly. when a smoker dies of lung cancer, does phillip morris go to jail? no he just makes more money.....

we need to let people run their own lives.

exactly. when a smoker dies of lung cancer, does phillip morris go to jail? no he just makes more money.....

we need to let people run their own lives.
No, we need to let people have the choice to ruin their own lives.

Which I find stupid. It's their body, let them wreck it how they see fit.

It's not just their own lives they are affecting. It's the large demand for illegal drugs that creates the conditions that drug dealers, and far worse drug lords in foreign countries operate in. Just because a crack-head wants to get his fix, doesn't mean I should have to put up with having to deal with crazed drug addicts walking downtown. There's no reason society should have to bail these people out everytime they OD (if you live in a society with 'free' healthcare), or for people to deal with higher crime rates when these addicts need to find a source of funds to buy their fix.

It's not just their own lives they are affecting. It's the large demand for illegal drugs that creates the conditions that drug dealers, and far worse drug lords in foreign countries operate in. Just because a crack-head wants to get his fix, doesn't mean I should have to put up with having to deal with crazed drug addicts walking downtown. There's no reason society should have to bail these people out everytime they OD (if you live in a society with 'free' healthcare), or for people to deal with higher crime rates when these addicts need to find a source of funds to buy their fix.
D'you know the solution to all these problems? Legalise all drugs. Eliminate the drug lords from the equation. Tax the drugs like you tax tobacco, to fund healthcare.

People who are being high and disorderly should be arrested just like their drunk and disorderly counterparts.

I'm sorry for you and your brother's family, but not everyone who does cocaine ends up dead. Just like not everyone who drinks ends up running into a carload of kids and killing them.


notice I made no judgement exept that good actions do not cancell out bad ones.

I myself have used cocaine and pot and pills and beer and whiskey and meth and cigarettes at one time or another ...along with mushrooms and mescaline..last I looked I am still alive but ..I've been lucky . Not everyone is.

drugs are illegal if you are caught you are aware of the risks you took ..cant do the time dont do the crime,....thats reality.

I also had to point out that selling drugs is not a victimless crime..not if a person dies from what he bought from you.

Doing drugs IMO is a personal choice and shouldnt be a crime.


........selling them ?

I cant wrap my head around the juxtaposition. It doesnt square with logic.
If you believe in personal responsibility, then the person who sells heroin or cocaine to someone who then dies from it or is harmed is also responsible and accountable .

needless to say I am a bit conflicted on the whole issue..I stopped using except for a bit of pot now and then ..but even then it was strictly underground...when my daughter was three and noticed my tray and asked what it was for....I decided then and there that I wanted my children to make up their own minds WITHOUT having ME as an example of the pro aspect . My Son and Daughter both have been able to grow up to make up their own minds with me as a parent being at worst a nuetral example on the issue although they know I am against laws on pot use .

Niether has a drug issue nor do they seem inclined ...yet . but at 25 and 16... they still have plenty of choices ahead .


life tends to smack you with a two by four on occasion ...you just have to be right some of the time ...when its most important .

sometimes you cant just do your best you must do what is necessary .

A friend of mine was locked up yesterday. Another prisoner of the war on drugs. Yeah, he sold cocaine, but he also did alot of positive things. He owned a couple of houses that family and friends lived in for very low rents. Really just enough to cover property tax. He loaned out tools to the homeless folks in the neighborhood so they could make a few bucks doing odd jobs. He also was quick to give people a loan or a little renovation or cleaning job so that they could feed themselves. Now he's up on drug and weapons charges and won't be able to help anyone out for some time unless the case gets thrown out. Anyone who thinks that drugs are a clear cut issue should consider this situation.


maybe he should help himself a little first, and then worry about helping others.

D'you know the solution to all these problems? Legalise all drugs. Eliminate the drug lords from the equation. Tax the drugs like you tax tobacco, to fund healthcare.

People who are being high and disorderly should be arrested just like their drunk and disorderly counterparts.

Right. And what's the solution to those people who are so desperate for their fix that they need to resort to crime to find the funds they need to get it? Raise the taxes on those drugs even higher? Even with legalized softer drugs, this tends to drive things into an underground economy and we're back at square one.

The legalized softer 'drugs' can at least be enjoyed with moderation. People don't often OD on tobacco, and alcohol can be ejoyed responsibly. How do you tell people to enjoy crack cocaine responsibly? Raising taxes and funding more police to push these people who suffer from serious drug addiction out of the sight of everyone else would just reinforce an already serious problem.

Some things, do too much harm to the user, and society at large to be legal.

A friend of mine was locked up yesterday. Another prisoner of the war on drugs. Yeah, he sold cocaine, but he also did alot of positive things. I would say that the vast majority of people who get locked up also do positive things.

A friend of mine was locked up yesterday. Another prisoner of the war on drugs. Yeah, he sold cocaine, but he also did alot of positive things. He owned a couple of houses that family and friends lived in for very low rents. Really just enough to cover property tax. He loaned out tools to the homeless folks in the neighborhood so they could make a few bucks doing odd jobs. He also was quick to give people a loan or a little renovation or cleaning job so that they could feed themselves. Now he's up on drug and weapons charges and won't be able to help anyone out for some time unless the case gets thrown out. Anyone who thinks that drugs are a clear cut issue should consider this situation.

This is the beauty of capitalism. While he is in jail it opens up a market for the next entrepreneur humanitarian charitable drug dealer that comes along to take his place. Its all good.

The war on drugs is difficult just for the reasons "not bad" has just stated. The only effective resumé in my opinion to follow would be to send in the national gaurd into the the shanty quarters where drugs are rampant and put up all drug dealers against a wall with a summary execution. Such a reaction would diminish the popping up of drug dealers, no trial, no recognition just a wall to be slammed against and have a nice national guardsman fire three bullets into your cranium. That is the only way to win the war on drugs. If the US is ever willing to go that far is another matter.


More on topic. I really cannot sympathize one bit with your supposed "prisoner of war" friend. I hope he gets the maximum sentence and the rest of his life is a misery and he just goes and commits suicide for the sake of humanity. It is ilk like him which reck so many lives and commit crimes and lead to the detoriation of soceity.

Of course he shouldn't be imprisoned. Laws are designed for the benefit of society, however, in light of the mitigating circumstances, surely his actiosn are to the benefit of society?

The war on drugs is difficult just for the reasons "not bad" has just stated. The only effective resumé in my opinion to follow would be to send in the national gaurd into the the shanty quarters where drugs are rampant and put up all drug dealers against a wall with a summary execution. Such a reaction would diminish the popping up of drug dealers, no trial, no recognition just a wall to be slammed against and have a nice national guardsman fire three bullets into your cranium. That is the only way to win the war on drugs. If the US is ever willing to go that far is another matter.


More on topic. I really cannot sympathize one bit with your supposed "prisoner of war" friend. I hope he gets the maximum sentence and the rest of his life is a misery and he just goes and commits suicide for the sake of humanity. It is ilk like him which reck so many lives and commit crimes and lead to the detoriation of soceity.How can you bitch about somebody wrecking lives when you've just given your support to the ending of many more lives? Doesn't being murdered wreck your life?

The war on drugs is difficult just for the reasons "not bad" has just stated. The only effective resumé in my opinion to follow would be to send in the national gaurd into the the shanty quarters where drugs are rampant and put up all drug dealers against a wall with a summary execution. Such a reaction would diminish the popping up of drug dealers, no trial, no recognition just a wall to be slammed against and have a nice national guardsman fire three bullets into your cranium. That is the only way to win the war on drugs. If the US is ever willing to go that far is another matter.


More on topic. I really cannot sympathize one bit with your supposed "prisoner of war" friend. I hope he gets the maximum sentence and the rest of his life is a misery and he just goes and commits suicide for the sake of humanity. It is ilk like him which reck so many lives and commit crimes and lead to the detoriation of soceity.
So you're advocating killing people with no trial? Hell, civilized people disagree as to whether or not it's even permissible to exectue people after a trial. Oh, and what's with this sentence? It is ilk like him which reck so many lives and commit crimes and lead to the detoriation of soceity

How can you bitch about somebody wrecking lives when you've just given your support to the ending of many more lives? Doesn't being murdered wreck your life?

Yes, but in the end one must weigh which will bring more misery and death. Killing off a few guilty or allowing the present to continue. You know what the drug trade has done to some counties and districts? And no I didn't advocate it, I merely said that is the only long term solution if one wants to make a final end of the fracas.

A person who sells others mind alterring drugs which directly influence their mental well being, ruin their families, bring economic hardship, cause a sharp increase in gang violence, waste the potential youth in an abyss of hopeless wrecks. Why yes such people deserve fully civilized behavior on their part for causing what in my opinion is worse then murder. The complete dehumanization of an individual to an addicted craving animal, always looking for the next shoot up, whoring themselves off for it, stealing, in some cases even killing. It is comparable to enslavement. Sorry if I do not share your outrage if those perpetrators were to suffer something which in comparison seems almost not enough for full retribution of their crimes against humanity.

It's not just their own lives they are affecting. It's the large demand for illegal drugs that creates the conditions that drug dealers, and far worse drug lords in foreign countries operate in. Just because a crack-head wants to get his fix, doesn't mean I should have to put up with having to deal with crazed drug addicts walking downtown. There's no reason society should have to bail these people out everytime they OD (if you live in a society with 'free' healthcare), or for people to deal with higher crime rates when these addicts need to find a source of funds to buy their fix.

Right. So if drugs were legalized, and, more importantly, subsidized, the drug dealers would be out of work. Eh?

Its a good topic but a bad example to use to argue. I'v been known to sell a 'few' bags of pot in my day. Its easy, fast, and very profitable. Plus, since its only pot, cops don't care. I gained a reputation as a guy who could find stuff, hooked friends up with mushrooms, adderall, stuff of that nature. Personally though, I refuse to touch yay. Shit will kill you, kill your family, kill your friends, and put you in jail. Anyone dumb enough to sell it I don't feel bad for them going to jail.

the war on drugs IS stupid but legalizing everything is just as stupid. Pot? yes, legalize it. Mushrooms, yes. Maybe E. What shouldn't be legal is crystal meth, heroin, or coke. (indifferent to LSD and Speed, good and bad points).

Yes, people should have a right to do what they want with their bodies, but we need to look at the overall picture too. So stoner is going to rob and murder people so he can buy a dime bag. Even if we wanted to, we'd be too faded :p

I merely said that is the only long term solution if one wants to make a final end of the fracas.The end doesn't always justify the means.

Right. So if drugs were legalized, and, more importantly, subsidized, the drug dealers would be out of work. Eh?

Did I at any point advocate the legalization or subsidization of crack cocaine or heroin? I was commenting on the fact that someone inferred that drug use only affects the user. Or are you saying that you're advocating the legalization and/or subsidization of drugs? In which case, there will still be dealers, only it would be a legalized problem. We'd still have addicts, and all the relevant problems that go with it.

The end doesn't always justify the means.

You're right, although to some degree I see where Cybach is coming from. The punishment for posession of drugs in Saudi Arabia is death. Thus, there is no serious drug problem in Saudi Arabia. (Although there is this little problem of being killed by the state for posession of drugs...)

I'm not for any fascist solution to problems. But serious punishment for the distribution of hard drugs should apply, while relatively harmless softer drugs, such as marijauna should be decriminilized, or legalized.

Did I at any point advocate the legalization or subsidization of crack cocaine or heroin? I was commenting on the fact that someone inferred that drug use only affects the user. Or are you saying that you're advocating the legalization and/or subsidization of drugs? In which case, there will still be dealers, only it would be a legalized problem. We'd still have addicts, and all the relevant problems that go with it.

I do think that soft drugs should be decriminalized, if not legalized. I also believe that if they were subsidized, it would hurt the illegal drug trade, not to mention place the drugs under government control.

A friend of mine was locked up yesterday. Another prisoner of the war on drugs. Yeah, he sold cocaine, but he also did alot of positive things. He owned a couple of houses that family and friends lived in for very low rents. Really just enough to cover property tax. He loaned out tools to the homeless folks in the neighborhood so they could make a few bucks doing odd jobs. He also was quick to give people a loan or a little renovation or cleaning job so that they could feed themselves. Now he's up on drug and weapons charges and won't be able to help anyone out for some time unless the case gets thrown out. Anyone who thinks that drugs are a clear cut issue should consider this situation.

But the fact remains that he is a criminal and crimes need to go unpunished.

But the fact remains that he is a criminal and crimes need to go unpunished.

Er...

Look at what you just said, eh?

I do think that soft drugs should be decriminalized, if not legalized. I also believe that if they were subsidized, it would hurt the illegal drug trade, not to mention place the drugs under government control.

With the exception of subsidization, you and I more or less agree; on soft drugs. On issues such as marijuana, I don't have a problem with private growth and distribution, for the same reason I wouldn't have a problem with someone growing their own tobacco. The use of these drugs, while still potentially harmful to the user over the long-term, don't have the same negative impact as crack or heroin.

But the fact remains that he is a criminal and crimes need to go punished.

But the fact remains that he is a criminal and crimes need to go punished.

:eek:

Er...

Look at what you just said, eh?

UNpunished damnit! You heard the man!

A friend of mine was locked up yesterday. Another prisoner of the war on drugs. Yeah, he sold cocaine, but he also did alot of positive things. He owned a couple of houses that family and friends lived in for very low rents. Really just enough to cover property tax. He loaned out tools to the homeless folks in the neighborhood so they could make a few bucks doing odd jobs. He also was quick to give people a loan or a little renovation or cleaning job so that they could feed themselves. Now he's up on drug and weapons charges and won't be able to help anyone out for some time unless the case gets thrown out. Anyone who thinks that drugs are a clear cut issue should consider this situation.sorry to hear about your friend.

now considering the situation,

have you considered the lives your friend also destroyed by selling drugs? Sure Big Tobacco still sells their product... under heavy taxes, fines (several million I believe) and people are warned about the hazzards of Cigs. Alcohol is also heavily monitored with Jail Time and Fines imposed for breaking the regulations and rules set up. are you saying your friend should be allowed to sell cocaine because of the few people he does help? that he shouldn't be punnished?

Hows this for an idea, when your friend gets out, how about he stops selling Illegal Drugs. that way those people he helps can still recive his help and no other lives are destroyed.

now that's assuming he doesn't cut his cocaine to increase his supply, and assuming he's not charging anywhere near street value but giveing a HUGE discount to his buyers... or is he bilking them for alot of money...

he chose to sell drugs, and he got caught. if he willingly pays for his crimes and stops all other illegal activites, then kudos for him.

I'm not much of a drug user myself, but I do drink. I've even gotten loud and disorderly when I was drunk with some people at my apartment complex pool and got yelled at by the manager. It messes up your judgement, but that's why people get drunk, or get high, or get stoned. They want to alter their mental or emotional state.

Now, had I gotten into a car drunk and killed someone, I'd probably expect severe punishment, just as if I got coked up and plowed through the interstates at 130 miles an hour. I made the decision what to put into my body and I'm responsible for the consequences of it. Of course, it's been beaten into my head not to drive drunk so many times that I don't get in a car even after one beer, while I still feel fine.

It just really grates on me that the state feels that cocaine users are not capable of being responsible (the ones who get out of hand are the ones seeking help in rehab) while drinkers like myself are expected (rightly) to be responsible.