NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/37025735/

In this motor, there is a wheel. In the wheel, close to the edge, there are four evenly spaced iron bars. Near the wheel, there are three electro-magnets. Judging by the picture, you can guess how the motor works.

I have some questions:
1. Has this type of engine been attempted yet?
2a. If so, how effective was it?
2b. If not, how efficient do you think it would be.

I hope to one day, when I have all the supplies, build this motor. I would compare it to a traditional motor, the one that uses permanent magnets and coils of wires. Using this, and my magni-bearings, I hope to build a test car. This car would use solar panels and a gasoline engine to power the electric engine. Obviously, the gas engine will drive the generator. Since it is easier to control electric output than normal, mechanical output, this will prove beneficial.

http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/37025735/

In this motor, there is a wheel. In the wheel, close to the edge, there are four evenly spaced iron bars. Near the wheel, there are three electro-magnets. Judging by the picture, you can guess how the motor works.

I have some questions:
1. Has this type of engine been attempted yet?
2a. If so, how effective was it?
2b. If not, how efficient do you think it would be.

I hope to one day, when I have all the supplies, build this motor. I would compare it to a traditional motor, the one that uses permanent magnets and coils of wires. Using this, and my magni-bearings, I hope to build a test car. This car would use solar panels and a gasoline engine to power the electric engine. Obviously, the gas engine will drive the generator. Since it is easier to control electric output than normal, mechanical output, this will prove beneficial.
physics makes my head go all mushy then it starts haemorrhaging. i will not think about this anymore, sorry.

physics makes my head go all mushy then it starts haemorrhaging. i will not think about this anymore, sorry.
It's simple really.
1. electric magnet turns on.
2. Magnet pulls iron bar.
3. iron bar turns wheel.
4. New magnet turns on.
5. Repeat process over again.

Q: Has this type of engine been attempted yet?
A: Probably.

Yeah, I don't think this'll work.

If such an engine hasn't been invented yet, I shall beat people to the patent.

http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/37025735/

In this motor, there is a wheel. In the wheel, close to the edge, there are four evenly spaced iron bars. Near the wheel, there are three electro-magnets. Judging by the picture, you can guess how the motor works.

I have some questions:
1. Has this type of engine been attempted yet?
2a. If so, how effective was it?
2b. If not, how efficient do you think it would be.

I hope to one day, when I have all the supplies, build this motor. I would compare it to a traditional motor, the one that uses permanent magnets and coils of wires. Using this, and my magni-bearings, I hope to build a test car. This car would use solar panels and a gasoline engine to power the electric engine. Obviously, the gas engine will drive the generator. Since it is easier to control electric output than normal, mechanical output, this will prove beneficial.


First, I don't quite see how this arangement will actually produce any motion at all. (And axle is not spelt axil)

Second, why would you want to use a gasoline engine to generate electricity to run an electric energy? You are losing energy to friction and heat at each step. Run the car on the electric engine when possible, but run it directly from the gasoline engine when not.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but the problem will be that any magnet turned on will be acting on not only the bar closest to it, but also those bars further away, and thus attempting to turn the wheel in two opposite directions simultaneously, no? I predict (perhaps rashly) that the wheel will quickly settle into a position of balance and will not want to turn.

First, I don't quite see how this arangement will actually produce any motion at all. (And axle is not spelt axil)

Second, why would you want to use a gasoline engine to generate electricity to run an electric energy? You are losing energy to friction and heat at each step. Run the car on the electric engine when possible, but run it directly from the gasoline engine when not.
Why do it like that? Because batteries suck, solar power is not enough, and it's much easier to control speed when it's an electric motor moving the thing. It's all about both power and control.

well, it sounds like it'd work to me, although the cylinder thingy with the iron bars in it might be better cam shaped or oblong rather than round, maybe, i don't know. i assume the iron bars would be polarised? as for your other questions, i honestly don't know.

Hmmm...isn't this sort of how electric motors work? You let electricity pass through wires, which causes some sort of magnetic field to build up and spin some metal object.

Now, I haven't done anything approaching physics or engineering for many years...but how is this any better than the designs we already have?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_motor
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3c/3phase-rmf-320x240-180fc.gif

EDIT: Is it just me or is that thing hypnotising you too? :eek:

It's simple really.
1. electric magnet turns on.
2. Magnet pulls iron bar.
3. iron bar turns wheel.
4. New magnet turns on.
5. Repeat process over again.

1. OK

2. Wrong. It pulls all four bars.
(To correct this you have to make the bar the electromagnet, and the electromagnet the bar. Then you have a linear motor- rolled up.)

3. Wrong - net moment = 0

4 & 5. Irrelevant

Its kinda like a stepper motor and kinda like tesla's ac motor in that there is a moving magnetic field pulling evenly spaced iron bars.

Oh and the thing would be dreadfully inefficient as drawn

http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/37025735/

In this motor, there is a wheel. In the wheel, close to the edge, there are four evenly spaced iron bars. Near the wheel, there are three electro-magnets. Judging by the picture, you can guess how the motor works.

I have some questions:
1. Has this type of engine been attempted yet?
2a. If so, how effective was it?
2b. If not, how efficient do you think it would be.

I hope to one day, when I have all the supplies, build this motor. I would compare it to a traditional motor, the one that uses permanent magnets and coils of wires. Using this, and my magni-bearings, I hope to build a test car. This car would use solar panels and a gasoline engine to power the electric engine. Obviously, the gas engine will drive the generator. Since it is easier to control electric output than normal, mechanical output, this will prove beneficial.
You would also want to make the iron bars magnets. If could significantly increase power. I think this would still be less efficient than a regular electric motor. The standard electric motor is most efficient a slow speeds (technically as it is not moving). This is really what is key to making the electric motor more efficient than the gas motor. With today's shitty traffic, your engine spends allot of time in the low RPM range. Your engine's efficincy would probably be more like a typical gass motor.

It's far more efficient to go with a traditional electric motor and just gear the sonabitch up to get the necessary power.

Why do it like that? Because batteries suck, solar power is not enough, and it's much easier to control speed when it's an electric motor moving the thing. It's all about both power and control.

It ain't easier to control speed if your electric motor dion't work - and that seems to be the considered opinion here.

You claim it is about power, but you are going from one primary fuel source - petrol, and then converting that into kinetic energy, thence into electrical energy, and thence back into kinetic energy again. Thus you are building inefficiency after inefficiency. You already have a shedload of kinetic energy from the petrol engine, why dick around with converting it twice before getting it to do the work you need to get done?

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but the problem will be that any magnet turned on will be acting on not only the bar closest to it, but also those bars further away, and thus attempting to turn the wheel in two opposite directions simultaneously, no? I predict (perhaps rashly) that the wheel will quickly settle into a position of balance and will not want to turn.
1. Magnetic fields are only so big.
2. Only one magnet will be on at any one time. As soon as a second turns on, the first magnet turns off.

Although I may not be an expert in the universe's strongest force, I have studied it more than the average person. If I build this contraption and it works exactly like planned, I'll be able to patent it. If I build it and what you said comes true, we'll all have a better understanding of one of the universe's four main forces, the others being strong nuclear, weak nuclear, and gravity.

1. Magnetic fields are only so big.
2. Only one magnet will be on at any one time. As soon as a second turns on, the first magnet turns off.

Although I may not be an expert in the universe's strongest force, I have studied it more than the average person. If I build this contraption and it works exactly like planned, I'll be able to patent it. If I build it and what you said comes true, we'll all have a better understanding of one of the universe's four main forces, the others being strong nuclear, weak nuclear, and gravity.
What does the strong force have to do with this?:confused:

1. Magnetic fields are only so big.

Are you claiming that only one rod at a time will be affected by the magnetic field?

What does the strong force have to do with this?:confused:

Apparently magnetism is more powerful than gravity, strong interaction and weak interaction in Avika's cosmos.

This way madness lies.

Nah, scratch that.

Madness isn't lying, it's standing tall and dancing a frenetic jig.

Ok, to answer your question if this design has been tried before, yes it has. In fact it's a variation of a simple induction AC motor.

The induction motor is more efficient than your design tho. It shorts the opposing iron bars together to create a path for current to flow. This current creates it's own magnetic field around the rotor (the rotating part) which interacts with the applied magnetic field from the stator (outer, stationary piece). This interaction is what causes the force to move or spin the rotor.

To answer your question if it would work, yes it would... however it would probably be unable to generate sufficient torque necessary to be of any practical use.

Ok, to answer your question if this design has been tried before, yes it has. In fact it's a variation of a simple induction AC motor.

The induction motor is more efficient than your design tho. It shorts the opposing iron bars together to create a path for current to flow. This current creates it's own magnetic field around the rotor (the rotating part) which interacts with the applied magnetic field from the stator (outer, stationary piece). This interaction is what causes the force to move or spin the rotor.

To answer your question if it would work, yes it would... however it would probably be unable to generate sufficient torque necessary to be of any practical use.
But where there's a will, there's a way. If, by the end of my life, this method of electro-movement is too impracticle still, we shall all have a good laugh. Funny=:)

It's far more efficient to go with a traditional electric motor and just gear the sonabitch up to get the necessary power.
Note yes it has been done … in fact they make cooling fans for computers that operate on this principal with no center motor and magnets on the outsides of the blades

It is highly efficient in some applications like the ones stated

Apparently magnetism is more powerful than gravity, strong interaction and weak interaction in Avika's cosmos.

This way madness lies.

Nah, scratch that.

Madness isn't lying, it's standing tall and dancing a frenetic jig.
No need to be snarky.

Gravity isn't all that strong of a force. The mass involved to generate an measurable force is substantially larger than required to generate an equally measurable magnetic force.

Note yes it has been done … in fact they make cooling fans for computers that operate on this principal with no center motor and magnets on the outsides of the blades

It is highly efficient in some applications like the ones stated
Which is coincidently similar with how I would cool the motor to prevent loss of efficiency.

Apparently magnetism is more powerful than gravity, strong interaction and weak interaction in Avika's cosmos.

This way madness lies.

Nah, scratch that.

Madness isn't lying, it's standing tall and dancing a frenetic jig.

Yes magnatisum is much stronger than gravity: consider a fridge magnet; the whole mass of the earth(5.9742×10^24 kg) is pulling down on it and the tiny magnet stays firmly stuck to the fridge door. Gravity is extremly feeble in comparison to the other fundemental forces.

Yes magnatisum is much stronger than gravity: consider a fridge magnet; the whole mass of the earth(5.9742×10^24 kg) is pulling down on it and the tiny magnet stays firmly stuck to the fridge door. Gravity is extremly feeble in comparison to the other fundemental forces.

This works if you allow that the relative strength of the different forces can be determined relative to the mass of the stuff which produces them, however on a cosmic scale gravity has a much greater affect on things than magnetism, as there is more of the force being generated - the large scale structure of and distribution of material in the cosmos is determined to a much greater degree by gravity than by magnetism, no?

Nasty, nasty bit of writing there, but you probably get my drift.

...though the details have dimmed out of even long-term memory, I can recall sitting up all night, one summer night maybe twenty years ago, hunched over my drafting table. My roommates were concerned, but over breakfast I told them all (and showed them) my illustrations and explanations of my fabulous new idea for generating power.

My friend Joanne was the first to congratulate me, though she pointed out what I'd drawn was a dynamo, and that while it was impressive to her that I'd thought of it without any form of physics or even electrical shop-class background, that I was about a century too late.

Ah well.

http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/37025735/

In this motor, there is a wheel. In the wheel, close to the edge, there are four evenly spaced iron bars. Near the wheel, there are three electro-magnets. Judging by the picture, you can guess how the motor works.

I have some questions:
1. Has this type of engine been attempted yet?
2a. If so, how effective was it?
2b. If not, how efficient do you think it would be.

I hope to one day, when I have all the supplies, build this motor. I would compare it to a traditional motor, the one that uses permanent magnets and coils of wires. Using this, and my magni-bearings, I hope to build a test car. This car would use solar panels and a gasoline engine to power the electric engine. Obviously, the gas engine will drive the generator. Since it is easier to control electric output than normal, mechanical output, this will prove beneficial.


That reminds me of a brushless motor, except in yours, the coils are all on one side, whereas with the brushless motor, the coils are evenly spaced out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brushless_motor

This works if you allow that the relative strength of the different forces can be determined relative to the mass of the stuff which produces them, however on a cosmic scale gravity has a much greater affect on things than magnetism, as there is more of the force being generated - the large scale structure of and distribution of material in the cosmos is determined to a much greater degree by gravity than by magnetism, no?

Nasty, nasty bit of writing there, but you probably get my drift.

you mean that gravity has more of an effect on our lives and the life of the universe than its feeble pull should afford it because there is just so much stuff in the universe. true.

Everything good has already been invented. Stop trying.

Apparently magnetism is more powerful than gravity, strong interaction and weak interaction in Avika's cosmos.

This way madness lies.

Nah, scratch that.

Madness isn't lying, it's standing tall and dancing a frenetic jig.

Sig worthy, If only I had the room.

Good job, you're well on your way to taking over the world.

First, I don't quite see how this arangement will actually produce any motion at all. (And axle is not spelt axil)

Second, why would you want to use a gasoline engine to generate electricity to run an electric energy? You are losing energy to friction and heat at each step. Run the car on the electric engine when possible, but run it directly from the gasoline engine when not.

Actually, fuel/electric systems are by far more efficient than a pure fuel system. Ever heard of a diesel/electric train? I see some cars now are being made as petrol/electric or petrol/LPG/electric. Basically you can put the motors right next to the wheels (or simply have giant bell motors as the wheel hubs, as BMW are doing). Zero transmission loss, and minimal loss from the wiring or the tiny amount of gearing needed to go from engine to generator.

..and I think the "new" motor concept has been tried before. Looks like a variation on the bell motors that model aircraft (or certain petrol/electric cars) might use actually. Devastatingly powerful for their size. Difference is the coils (or "electromagnets") are on the inside, and the entire outside of the motor spins.

<edit>
One bell motor...
http://robotbirds.com/catalog/images/409888.jpg
</edit>