NationStates Jolt Archive

I was thinking about Exile (whereby a State punishes an individual punishes an Individual by telling them to leave their homeland and denies them re-entry) and I came to the conclusion that it wasn't at all a bad idea, and I came to wonder why on earth it doesn't happen anymore.

Firstly, it serves as a much more effective deterent. Some lowlife gets told he may go to Prison, 'so what?' he thinks, he has TV and abundent visiting rights, but if he's told he may go to the Democratic Republic of the Congo, he's going to think twice.

Furthermore, economically it makes lot of sense. Once a society imprisons someone they then end up costing the taxpayer thousands, but if Exile was back on the statutes, the person could be out of our hands forever (hell, we could even make them pay for their own transportation costs).

So what do you think? Is Exile an answer to Prison overcrowding, or a barbaric punishment with no place in the 21st century?

It happened quite a bit to people who were identified by the US as Communist sympathizers.

If they made the mistake of traveling abroad on their US passport, they were confronted by US State Department personnel on their arrival in a foreign country, and their passport confiscated and revoked.

I recall one professor who ended up living in Brazil for the rest of his life because of that.

Perfectly legal. Requires and admits no judicial hearing. A simple administrative formality, and poof - you're gone.

Firstly, it serves as a much more effective deterent. Some lowlife gets told he may go to Prison, 'so what?' he thinks, he has TV and abundent visiting rights, but if he's told he may go to the Democratic Republic of the Congo, he's going to think twice.
Might DR Congo not have something to say about us sending them all our criminals?

I was thinking about Exile (whereby a State punishes an individual punishes an Individual by telling them to leave their homeland and denies them re-entry) and I came to the conclusion that it wasn't at all a bad idea, and I came to wonder why on earth it doesn't happen anymore.

Firstly, it serves as a much more effective deterent. Some lowlife gets told he may go to Prison, 'so what?' he thinks, he has TV and abundent visiting rights, but if he's told he may go to the Democratic Republic of the Congo, he's going to think twice.

Furthermore, economically it makes lot of sense. Once a society imprisons someone they then end up costing the taxpayer thousands, but if Exile was back on the statutes, the person could be out of our hands forever (hell, we could even make them pay for their own transportation costs).

So what do you think? Is Exile an answer to Prison overcrowding, or a barbaric punishment with no place in the 21st century?
Interesting but impractical, I think. Other countries might get upset about us shipping our criminals across the border, especially as we sometimes accuse other countries of doing that to us. I don't think exile would be barbaric, necessarily. Just unworkable.

The idea is sound in principle and I think it is a mouch greater punishment than prison.

I think the problem would be what state would want to admit them?

Doesn't this contravene the Universal Declaration of Human Rights?

Interesting but impractical, I think. Other countries might get upset about us shipping our criminals across the border, especially as we sometimes accuse other countries of doing that to us. I don't think exile would be barbaric, necessarily. Just unworkable.

Fortunately due to Bush's "extraordinary rendition" policy we have a network of countries that will house our prisoners.

The idea is sound in principle and I think it is a mouch greater punishment than prison.

I think the problem would be what state would want to admit them?

We fly over remote areas of deep wilderness like Greenland, Antarctica, and other really desolate places (the Sahara), and throw the convicts out with parachutes.

Where they land is their problem.

Doesn't this contravene the Universal Declaration of Human Rights?
That's not law - it's just a declaration of ideals.

That's not law - it's just a declaration of ideals.

Ideals agreed to by all :(.

I was thinking about Exile (whereby a State punishes an individual punishes an Individual by telling them to leave their homeland and denies them re-entry) and I came to the conclusion that it wasn't at all a bad idea, and I came to wonder why on earth it doesn't happen anymore.

Firstly, it serves as a much more effective deterent. Some lowlife gets told he may go to Prison, 'so what?' he thinks, he has TV and abundent visiting rights, but if he's told he may go to the Democratic Republic of the Congo, he's going to think twice.

Furthermore, economically it makes lot of sense. Once a society imprisons someone they then end up costing the taxpayer thousands, but if Exile was back on the statutes, the person could be out of our hands forever (hell, we could even make them pay for their own transportation costs).

So what do you think? Is Exile an answer to Prison overcrowding, or a barbaric punishment with no place in the 21st century?

Pretty obvious, really: exile is like throwing your garbage over the fence into your neighbor's yard. The neighbors tend to object to that sort of thing.

We fly over remote areas of deep wilderness like Greenland, Antarctica, and other really desolate places (the Sahara), and throw the convicts out with parachutes.

Where they land is their problem.

I like this idea already...

Heck, we could even make a "Real Survivor: Exile" show out of it. Imagine the viewer ratings when they realize that its actually real!

Ideals agreed to by all :(.
Without the force of law.

The problem is if they wanted to get back in, they probably could.

The problem is if they wanted to get back in, they probably could.

It's harder today to just come in through an airport. If you're good at physical exertion, you have a chance across the Mexican border.

Doesn't this contravene the Universal Declaration of Human Rights?
Please explain how, my memory of the declaration of human rights is sketchy.

For criminals with 1 (or more, as is sometimes the case) life sentence in prison it would work. Drop em in Greenland, come back in 50 years and they'll all be like, "G'day mate!".

(As opposed to, aren't you a pretty little flower? Would you like to pick up my soap bar for me, snoogums?)

Ideals agreed to by all :(.

I never agreed to them. I wasnt even sent a copy.

Without the force of law.

But still... it explains why it is not done--because all countries agree that it is wrong.

I never agreed to them. I wasnt even sent a copy.

Were you even born? And fine... I meant all countries.

But still... it explains why it is not done--because all countries agree that it is wrong.
Are you really a resident of Earth? Because that "Declaration" is being used as toilet paper in the toilet stalls of a lot of countries on this planet.

And a fair number of non-governmental entities as well.

Pretty obvious, really: exile is like throwing your garbage over the fence into your neighbor's yard. The neighbors tend to object to that sort of thing.

I say we erect an electrified razor wire fence, demolish all landing strips and exile them to the Idaho panhandle. That'd teach the miscreants

Are you really a resident of Earth?

Yeah.

Were you even born? And fine... I meant all countries.

I am born now. still no copy of this universal law has arrived. And we arent talking about banishing countries, we want to banish individuals.

Obviously the Nations of the World would need to come to some sort of agreement regarding Exile procedures, for example, Regional Blocs such as the EU and the Arab League could agree to mutual exiles, whereby an exile of one state is exiled by all (as not only would that make it more difficult to return, but would also avoid confrontation with your close neighbours).

As for the poorest countries who would eventually be stuck with the offenders we could make contributions to their Police networks funded by our savings in the Prison service, once poorer countries catch an Exile breaking the local law, they would have free reign to imprison them if they see so fit... or exile them again to an even worse country.

I am born now. still no copy of this universal law has arrived. And we arent talking about banishing countries, we want to banish individuals.

But the countries banish the individuals.

Exile worked in the ancient world because there were widespread territories that were not under the control of any government. An exile could simply be dumped in the wilderness with the barbarians and forgotten. This isn't the case now - apart from Antarctica, nearly every bit of land on earth belongs to some nation who might seriously (and legitimately) object to having our criminals dumped there. And exiling someone to Antarctica would essentially be a death sentence. Exile just isn't a practical solution.

There are such things as "internal exile", but historically that's been used more for political dissidents than hardened criminals. Murderers and rapists really need to be kept away from society, and that necessitates locking them up.