NationStates Jolt Archive

Landis gives positive drugs test


Tour de France winner Floyd Landis has given a positive drugs test, according to his Phonak team.
The 30-year-old American, who claimed victory in the Tour de France on Sunday, has tested positive for the male sex hormone testosterone.

The positive test came after stage 17 of the Tour, which saw Landis record an epic victory after struggling on the final climb the day before.

Landis has been suspended pending results of his B sample analysis.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_sports/cycling/5221122.stm

Now clearly, the B sample must be tested. It very well might be an anomaly.

But if it isn't...excuse me for gut laughing.

I knew someone would accuse him. :p

Did you really believe he won the tour with an almost broken hip? Of course he was doped.

Pereiro is going to win by default, I guess. Nice

"When you take the sample directly from the scrotum it's going to naturally have extremely high testosterone levels"

I want somebody to say this on the news. That would make my life.

I knew someone would accuse him. :p
Hey, remember?
I told you to do it!

found it!
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11428740&postcount=79

"When you take the sample directly from the scrotum it's going to naturally have extremely high testosterone levels"

I want somebody to say this on the news. That would make my life.

That depends on whether or not someone swallows the sample, or whether or not the orifice in question is then douched before sampling.

Just another conspiracy by the stupid Europeans, and in particular the surrender-monkey French, to discredit a fine American athlete who will surely be proven innocent and will once again show how desperate the French are.

quelle surprise

Hey, remember?
I told you to do it!

found it!
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11428740&postcount=79

Maybe I did. ;)

http://img453.imageshack.us/img453/2447/emotsighot1.gif

It seems Landis forgot to slip the test guy some money

I think there's a perfectly logical explanation as to where he got the extra testosterone.

Maybe he was giving the other men in the race blowjobs, and he doesn't like to spit.

Just another conspiracy by the stupid Europeans, and in particular the surrender-monkey French, to discredit a fine American athlete who will surely be proven innocent and will once again show how desperate the French are.
Uh...it says he tested positive...How is that a conspiracy?

I think there's a perfectly logical explanation as to where he got the extra testosterone.

Maybe he was giving the other men in the race blowjobs, and he doesn't like to spit.
:rolleyes:

:rolleyes:
Don't roll your eyes. It does raise your testosterone levels.

I'm going to reserve judgement on Landis - The French aren't exactly known for their familiarity with testosterone.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_sports/cycling/5221122.stm

Now clearly, the B sample must be tested. It very well might be an anomaly.

But if it isn't...excuse me for gut laughing.

Ah, after years of messing around with Lance, the French have finally perfected the art of false positives to disqualify American victories in the Tour de France. :p

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_sports/cycling/5221122.stm

Now clearly, the B sample must be tested. It very well might be an anomaly.

But if it isn't...excuse me for gut laughing.

He tested positive for testosterone. That's dumb. He is, after all, a MAN!!!!!!! Damn, how stupid do you get?

He tested positive for testosterone. That's dumb. He is, after all, a MAN!!!!!!! Damn, how stupid do you get?
shhhh... Frenchmen don't have any detectable level of testosterone...

I'm going to reserve judgement on Landis - The French aren't exactly known for their familiarity with testosterone.

YAY! :D

I'm going to reserve judgement on Landis - The French aren't exactly known for their familiarity with testosterone.


*L* Thats great! :D

That's suprising, and hilarious. I remember a few posters(Eutrusca's the only one I recall offhand) attributing this 'victory' by an American to the idiodic notion of American Exceptionalism, well I guess we know the truth.

Huzzah:D

That's suprising, and hilarious. I remember a few posters(Eutrusca's the only one I recall offhand) attributing this 'victory' by an American to the idiodic notion of American Exceptionalism, well I guess we know the truth.

Huzzah:D

Yeah. The Great American Secret: Testosterone. :)

That's suprising, and hilarious. I remember a few posters(Eutrusca's the only one I recall offhand) attributing this 'victory' by an American to the idiodic notion of American Exceptionalism, well I guess we know the truth.

Huzzah:D
You mean this one
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11423483&postcount=15

You mean this one
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11423483&postcount=15

That's the bugger.

And Eutrusca's up to bat... ohhh! A swing and a miss!;)

I think there's a perfectly logical explanation as to where he got the extra testosterone.

Maybe he was giving the other men in the race blowjobs, and he doesn't like to spit.

That makes no physiological sense. Whatsoever.

That makes no physiological sense. Whatsoever.

You want sense? You're in the wrong place buddy.

That makes no physiological sense. Whatsoever.
You're saying that semen contains no testosterone...

You're saying that semen contains no testosterone...

I'm saying that it doesn't contain high enough levels, and that it doesn't make it through the alimentary canal.

Guess there's no choice but to make sure that the next Tour de http://www.studip.uni-goettingen.de/pictures/smile/francais.gif has one additional rule:
If some http://www.studip.uni-goettingen.de/pictures/smile/fahrrad.gif is tested to have http://www.studip.uni-goettingen.de/pictures/smile/pills.gif there's only one way to finish in Paris: http://www.studip.uni-goettingen.de/pictures/smile/behead.gif

shhhh... Frenchmen don't have any detectable level of testosterone...
So what motivates their insatiable appetite for adultery?

(Assuming stereotypes are true!)

Hahahahahaha. That's hilliarous.

So what motivates their insatiable appetite for adultery?

(Assuming stereotypes are true!)
Yeah, but those guys are busy otherwise - they don't ride bikes...

Let us not jump to conclusions here. Testosterone is a naturally occurring substance. There are several diseases and disorders that cause abnormal production of testosterone.

Let us not jump to conclusions here. Testosterone is a naturally occurring substance. There are several diseases and disorders that cause abnormal production of testosterone.
Well, there was one rider in the Tour who tested positive for doping, that was what media in Holland and in Denmark (I think) said. They didn't give names, or didn't know them.

Then suddenly Landis quit two races he should've run in the last few days, without consulting his team (which was angry, cuz they paid to let him start).

And now his own team says he did it. The head of Team Gerolsteiner called it "disgusting".

He probably did it.

The German magazine Spiegel is a bit quicker on this, they've got a whole set of articles on it.
http://www.spiegel.de/sport/sonst/0,1518,428937,00.html
http://www.spiegel.de/sport/sonst/0,1518,428904,00.html
http://www.spiegel.de/sport/sonst/0,1518,428935,00.html
http://www.spiegel.de/sport/sonst/0,1518,428918,00.html

He's a guy with working balls and tested positive for testosterone. Wow. Stop the presses. A guy with balls tested positive for male sex hormone.

Lots of people tried to drag down Lance too.

Lots of people tried to drag down Lance too.
Yeah, but his team didn't drop him, because it was never this clear.

You don't have to defend the guy for his nationality. I never made an effort to defend Jan Ullrich either, the cheating bastard just wasn't good enough.

He's a guy with working balls and tested positive for testosterone. Wow. Stop the presses. A guy with balls tested positive for male sex hormone.

Lots of people tried to drag down Lance too.
Suuure.

The positive test just happened to occur at stage 17 of the Tour, which saw Landis record an epic victory after struggling on the final climb the day before. Went from 11th to 3rd.

Riiight.

I like to play devil's advocate. It's a very fun pinball game.

Suuure.

The positive test just happened to occur at stage 17 of the Tour, which saw Landis record an epic victory after struggling on the final climb the day before. Went from 11th to 3rd.

Riiight.

From my limited knowledge of medicine, testosterone is a steroid. It builds muscle. What would be the point of doping on a steroid during the tour?

Besides, are we not innocent until proven guilty?

From my limited knowledge of medicine, testosterone is a steroid. It builds muscle. What would be the point of doping on a steroid during the tour?

Besides, are we not innocent until proven guilty?
Have you ever experienced testosterone? Ever get that 'rush' competing in sports?

And hasn't the positive test kinda proven him guilty?

(Also he took cortizone shots which is a banned substance. A 2 year ban at least for that.)

Have you ever experienced testosterone? Ever get that 'rush' competing in sports?

And hasn't the positive test kinda proven him guilty?

(Also he took cortizone shots which is a banned substance. A 2 year ban at least for that.)

He got an exemption for his cortizone. It's for his hip.

And no, it has not proven that he did anything wrong. To me, having an elevated amount of a natural substance in your body is a sign of a disorder, not a sign of cheating.

And why testosterone? It's easily detectable. Surely these guys have access to chemicals much more advanced.

And why testosterone? It's easily detectable. Surely these guys have access to chemicals much more advanced.

Because it allows the type of doubts that are being raised here. I am sure that he has been previously tested, and recently at that. If the levels are significantly different to those in previous tests, and they areoutside of the accepted norms (which they are on the A sample, or this would not be happening) then that has to be taken as evidence of doping. If it is really doping or not, will always be in doubt given that testosterone is a naturally ocurring substance, but the discrepencies are telltales of something unusual having happened.

ROFL

Silly europeons. Just give up already...

ROFL

Silly europeons. Just give up already...

When you can show me a US dominated sport that is not full of doping incidents, we may give up. Until then, the guilt by association through being American is sufficient to make what would be doubtful, seem probable.

When you can show me a US dominated sport that is not full of doping incidents, we may give up. Until then, the guilt by association through being American is sufficient to make what would be doubtful, seem probable.

Hell, no wonder europeans are so pussified. They consider testoterone a "performance enhancing drug!"

Pffft!

(Well, to be honest, not ALL europeans....most, I daresay.)

Hell, no wonder europeans are so pussified. They consider testoterone a "performance enhancing drug!"

Pffft!

(Well, to be honest, not ALL europeans....most, I daresay.)

Check out the use of testosterone by NFL players before you put your foot in your mouth again. (It counts as a steroid - which it is.) Testing for abuse of testosterone is tricky.

Testing for testosterone levels is a tricky business. According to international anti-doping standards, a testosterone level that is six times that person's epitestosterone level was considered a violation of the drug test. Recently, the Olympics adopted a 4-to-1 ratio as a positive test.

The NFL, which used the 6-to-1 ratio in its testing, wants to switch to the 4-to-1 ratio to strengthen its steroids screening program.

source (http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/bal-sp.steroids31mar31,0,2468551.story?coll=bal-sports-indepth)

Seriously, are anyone surprised? There are plenty of doping in sports – and sometimes people get caught…

If he really did it, then it was certainly a very stupid move. But then again, if he’s innocent, why has he gone into hiding?

His own team is willing to accept his doping, so, think about that. they would be losing their victory too.

Plus, a natural substance in an amount six times higher than in most normal males stops being natural, for those that continue placing their foot in their mouth saying "Please!, it's a natural substance, what's the problem with a man with high levels of testosterone"

Hell, no wonder europeans are so pussified. They consider testoterone a "performance enhancing drug!"

Pffft!

(Well, to be honest, not ALL europeans....most, I daresay.)It is. You can use it to enhance your muscle build up during training or give yourself an aggression boost during a race.

If he really did it, then it was certainly a very stupid move. But then again, if he’s innocent, why has he gone into hiding?Actually, some of the worst doping can't be proven unless they find the stuff in your fridge. It's highly effective so long as they don't raid wherever you're keeping it. However, testosterone isn't one of those.

The reason he could have gone into hiding could be because of how Lance Armstrong was attacked so virulently last year and he doesn't like the idea of being crucified in the media. Then again, it could be because he's guilty.

;) High levels of testosterone ? well WTF...he's an American dammit..what did they expect ?:p :D

High levels of testosterone ? well WTF...he's an American dammit..what did they expect ?

Yes, while we do all know that testicular atrophy is common to USians, there is probably foul play involved in this.

High levels of testosterone ? well WTF...he's an American dammit..what did they expect ?

He's from the US and what?

At least put a :p smilie there, or people could assume you are being serious about that...

His own team is willing to accept his doping, so, think about that. they would be losing their victory too.

Plus, a natural substance in an amount six times higher than in most normal males stops being natural, for those that continue placing their foot in their mouth saying "Please!, it's a natural substance, what's the problem with a man with high levels of testosterone"


The reason they allow you to retest..or appeal..is that the process for testing is flawed and mistake ridden. look what happened to Armstrong .

So calling him guilty of anything is a bit premature.

testosterone can be used as a LONG term enhancement..all the experts say it has NO short term benifit...he was tested every time he had the yellow jersey and passed them....he only fails the test after he wins the race ?

ANOTHER damm American wins the tour of France ??:D


Hmmmm a guy who never failed a drug test ...even durring the race...DAYS before seems to fail a test ...by having a high concentration of testosterone a drug with NO short term benifit..only after he wins .

seems a bit odd .

Worth looking into dont you think ?

High levels of testosterone ? well WTF...he's an American dammit..what did they expect ?That's not the issue. The difference between testosterone and a byproduct from human testosterone production is the thing he tested positive for.

The reason they allow you to retest..or appeal..is that the process for testing is flawed and mistake ridden. look what happened to Armstrong .Which is probably why almost all B tests are the same as the A test?

So calling him guilty of anything is a bit premature.A bit, yes. Then again, I don't blame Phonak for taking precautions.

testosterone can be used as a LONG term enhancement..all the experts say it has NO short term benifit...he was tested every time he had the yellow jersey and passed them....he only fails the test after he wins the race ?Misconception. Testosterone is mainly useful for building up muscle tissue while training. However, it also boosts your aggression if taken on a one time basis, which is what a lot of cyclists say you need for those mountains.
He slouched during the second to last stretch, and all of a sudden he made a miraculous recovery and left everyone behind him. Him testing positive after the final stretch after not testing positive before AND the fact that he had such a superb performance after he was tested positive are very suspicious circumstances.

ANOTHER damm American wins the tour of France ??:D


Hmmmm a guy who never failed a drug test ...even durring the race...DAYS before seems to fail a test ...by having a high concentration of testosterone a drug with NO short term benifit..only after he wins .

seems a bit odd .

Worth looking into dont you think ?Conspiracy theory? It's only ever their fault, huh?

The reason they allow you to retest..or appeal..is that the process for testing is flawed and mistake ridden. look what happened to Armstrong .

Well, of course he will be entitled to a re-test, is his right

testosterone can be used as a LONG term enhancement..all the experts say it has NO short term benifit...he was tested every time he had the yellow jersey and passed them....he only fails the test after he wins the race ?

Erhmm, no. As far as I know, no. And he failed just right after he made something unusual.


Hmmmm a guy who never failed a drug test ...even durring the race...DAYS before seems to fail a test ...by having a high concentration of testosterone a drug with NO short term benifit..only after he wins .

a guy who never had won the Tour?, and that suddenly out for nothing went for 11th to 3rd in one day? Of course it deserves a dope check.

Which is probably why almost all B tests are the same as the A test?
A bit, yes. Then again, I don't blame Phonak for taking precautions.
Misconception. Testosterone is mainly useful for building up muscle tissue while training. However, it also boosts your aggression if taken on a one time basis, which is what a lot of cyclists say you need for those mountains.
He slouched during the second to last stretch, and all of a sudden he made a miraculous recovery and left everyone behind him. Him testing positive after the final stretch after not testing positive before AND the fact that he had such a superb performance after he was tested positive are very suspicious circumstances.

Conspiracy theory? It's only ever their fault, huh?


So why are YOU in such a rush to condemn the guy ?

He has NEVER tested positive before and has never even been suspected by his peers .

So I guess in YOUR opinion he doesnt deserve the benifit of the doubt ?

he denies it . If he continuse to test postitive and its proved he loses ...alot.

So put your rope away.

Well, of course he will be entitled to a re-test, is his right



Erhmm, no. As far as I know, no. And he failed just right after he made something unusual.




a guy who never had won the Tour?, and that suddenly out for nothing went for 11th to 3rd in one day? Of course it deserves a dope check.

Are you kidding ...he deserves 100 dope test ..he did an amazing thing at the end...but despite what has been posted here..testosterone ???? not a good choice if you want to dope or accomplish what he did..

If you know anything about steroids you are shaking your head in confusion .

THATS what makes the test odd in my opinion.

aside from that it doesnt fit the person ...at least from what I have been reading and seeing about him.

So I prefer to give the benifit of the doubt until its proven .

I'm funny that way ..I actually believe in innocent until proven guilty .

Look at what happened to Armstong .

So why are YOU in such a rush to condemn the guy ?

He has NEVER tested positive before and has never even been suspected by his peers .

So I guess in YOUR opinion he doesnt deserve the benifit of the doubt ?

he denies it . If he continuse to test postitive and its proved he loses ...alot.

So put your rope away.

Well, he has never tested positive, and he has never won a tour, or made a great rush to win so many positions in just one stage. I guess that if we switch the positions, placing Pereiro in first place but under suspicion of doping, and Landis second, you would be quite quick to condemn the guy too.

You are defending Landis on the assumption of his nationality, thus you fail. I'm not saying he's guilty, but I am saying we have more than a rational point to believe he is.

So I prefer to give the benifit of the doubt until its proven .

Unless we are talking about arabs, that are guilty from birth. I have read your posts in other threads, and reading that you defend "the benefit of doubt until proven guilty" here is almost sad or funny.

Your point here is that Landis is from the USA, no?

Let's see what the second test says. If it's positive too, we can stone him.

Let's see what the second test says. If it's positive too, we can stone him.

Stone, play with his gynecomastic boobs...

So why are YOU in such a rush to condemn the guy ?I didn't jump to lynch him when I first heard about it. I considered it possible that someone was being overcautios. I have since then been hearing things that are shredding any doubts I have about whether he doped or not. Now I'm pissed off at how much cyclists dope. I'm disappointed that this man probably cheated when he saw victory slipping away.

He has NEVER tested positive before and has never even been suspected by his peers .Neither has Jan Ullrich. In fact, Jan Ullrich will never test positive, because the doping he perpetrated can't be proven unless you find the blood packs. There's a first time for everything, and considering the circumstances, the 17th stretch of the TdF would have been THE time it would have mattered most.

So I guess in YOUR opinion he doesnt deserve the benifit of the doubt ?Considering the circumstancial evidence that he miraculously outperformed everyone else after nearly losing all hope to win the tour, most of the experts I've been hearing suspect that there was more than just testosterone, possibly blood doping or EPO, that made him perform that.

he denies it . If he continuse to test postitive and its proved he loses ...alot.

So put your rope away.99% of all B tests yield the same result. It's not proven yet, but it's highly unlikely that he didn't do it.

I'd be interested in seeing Mr. Landis' adrenaline levels from the same test that showed high testosterone. See if stress might have been a factor in driving his body into General Adaptation Syndrome, and if the high levels of testosterone had anything to do with that.

That's suprising, and hilarious. I remember a few posters(Eutrusca's the only one I recall offhand) attributing this 'victory' by an American to the idiodic notion of American Exceptionalism, well I guess we know the truth.

Huzzah:D
But Eut's right: Americans are exceptional.


At drug cheating.


Just ask Barry Bonds, Flo-Jo, Carl Lewis, Marion Jones, CJ Hunter, Tim Montgomery,...

edit:
Oh, and Justin Gatlin (World & Olympic 100m champion and equal world record holder), reported just today for having failed a drug test.
Again, elevated testosterone levels.

testosterone can be used as a LONG term enhancement..all the experts say it has NO short term benifit...he was tested every time he had the yellow jersey and passed them....he only fails the test after he wins the race ?
Tell me - you ever felt a rush, felt the need to do something vigorous, felt aggressive and/or felt like sex after having had a couple of beers?
If so, you like every other guy.
You know why?
Cause you've just had a surge of testostorone. (You can also get it from winning a competition, watching something exciting like sports, exercising,...)
It's not much - buggerall really. But it's enough to lower your concentration span and make you want to do all sorts of crazy shit and gives you the energy and aggression to do it.

Now just imagine what a huge boost would do to you in the short term.

Or, if you know any AIDS sufferers, ask them. Many of them have to get testostorone (I keep wanting to write Toblerone. guess I want chocolate) booster shots cause the disease (or the various drugs, I can't remember which) depresses a guy's natural Testo production.
For the first few days afterwards, they've full of energy and can't concentrate.
Then, as the Testo wears off, they lack energy and motivation and find it hard to compete. Another booster shot and wham! They back to doing everything at 110% intensity.

Much like Landis over the those two days, when one thinks about it......


Hmmmm a guy who never failed a drug test ...even durring the race...DAYS before seems to fail a test ...by having a high concentration of testosterone a drug with NO short term benifit..only after he wins .

seems a bit odd .

Never failed a drug test. So therefore he can't possibly be a cheat, eh?
You mean, like...ohh...Carl Lewis, for example?

Let us not jump to conclusions here. Testosterone is a naturally occurring substance. There are several diseases and disorders that cause abnormal production of testosterone.
'Cept he was tested a few times throughout the tour, and his extremely high abnormal result came back after he'd completed stage 17 - the one where he had blitzed the field and the day after he had totally crashed and burned.

Seems to be too much of a coincidence there.