NationStates Jolt Archive

Don't get me wrong, I'm usually pro-Israel, but I think they may have lost the plot. I mean, a precision Israeli missile hit an unmistakable UN station. Are they just attacking whoever they want and not listening to anybody?

Duh, it's okay to kill UN observers if there might be terrorists hiding next to them.[/irony]

According to CNN, hezbolla has done that before: hidden next to UN bunkers to avoid being shelled.

Certainly a little caught up in the moment they are, but rogue they are not. They made a mistake, probably in the mid-level command levels, and decided to push the Fourth Geneva Convention to the edge.

According to CNN, hezbolla has done that before: hidden next to UN bunkers to avoid being shelled.
Still, couldn't Israel hold their frickin' fire until they could at least warn the UN headquarters to evacuate the building? Now they've really turned the world against them.

According to CNN, hezbolla has done that before: hidden next to UN bunkers to avoid being shelled.
A single phone call is all it would have taken.

However, there were several phone calls in the opposite direction:

6 from UNIFIL HQ to the IDF warning them to stop as they were going to kill neutrals.
At least 10 from the 4 UN observers calling on the IDF to ceasefire.

Then a precision guided missile to finish them off after 14 seperate incidents of shelling.

Fuck the IDF.

Good point. If they had called, they could've got a confirmation, but, no, they're taking after the Bush Administration's "shoot first, ask later" policy.

When has Israel any contempt for such things in any case?

They are behaving the same way as idiotic fanatics like Hezbollah, thus I define the Israeli armed forces as occupying the same step as the militias they seem to loathe. I just hope they can beat the crap out of each other without harming too many innocents in the process. Both sides deserve the worst war has to offer.

Who cares? Israel has this wonderfull "fuck off" additude going, and with the way they are handeling it, it's only a matter of time before they kill all the Hezbollah terrorists.

Who cares? Israel has this wonderfull "fuck off" additude going, and with the way they are handeling it, it's only a matter of time before they kill all the Hezbollah terrorists.

No it isn't. You have no understanding of how recruitment for terrorism works.

Who cares? Israel has this wonderfull "fuck off" additude going, and with the way they are handeling it, it's only a matter of time before they kill all the Hezbollah terrorists.
Yeah... and if you believe that I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you.

Israel is a rogue state, but it's just trying to fit in with the rest of the Middle East.

The "world" is already against Israel. This makes no difference in that. I suppose Israel wouldn't want to turn the US against it, but they have no reason to care what the rest of the world thinks about them.

Don't get me wrong, I'm usually pro-Israel, but I think they may have lost the plot. I mean, a precision Israeli missile hit an unmistakable UN station. Are they just attacking whoever they want and not listening to anybody?

They've been doing it for years. And this isnt the first time they've attacked the UN either. They've done it directly and indirectly (via the SLA) in Lebanon, and directly in Gaza (13 UN workers, attacks on UN schools etc). Maybe know you begin to see why we rant on about them. They are not the "good guys". And you don't have to support hezbollah and co to come to that conclusion.

Well, one of the definitions of insanity is when you do the same thing over and over and exect a different result. War to kill the guerillas, creates more guerillas, then we have another war to kill the guerillas.........

Shimon Peres years ago suggested building the economy of Gaza and the West Bank to end the cycle. But the cycle goes on.

It's just so much more fun to make things that go BOOM than to try something different.

The "world" is already against Israel. This makes no difference in that. I suppose Israel wouldn't want to turn the US against it, but they have no reason to care what the rest of the world thinks about them.

Israel couldn't turn the US against it. 'The US is absolutely committed to the existence of the state of Israel' -President Bush, but it would be the same under any other future president.

The "world" is already against Israel. This makes no difference in that. I suppose Israel wouldn't want to turn the US against it, but they have no reason to care what the rest of the world thinks about them.
They live in their own reality...
Israel says Wednesday's decision by key world powers not to call for a halt to its Lebanon offensive has given it the green light to continue.

Justice Minister Haim Ramon made the remarks before Israeli cabinet ministers decided not to launch a large-scale ground offensive.
"We received yesterday at the Rome conference permission from the world... to continue the operation," Israeli Justice Minister Haim Ramon said.

Mr Ramon - a close confidant of Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert - said "everyone understands that a victory for Hezbollah is a victory for world terror".

He said that in order to prevent casualties among Israeli soldiers battling Hezbollah militants in southern Lebanon, villages should be flattened by the Israeli air force before ground troops moved in.

He added that Israel had given the civilians of southern Lebanon ample time to quit the area and therefore anyone still remaining there could be considered a Hezbollah supporter.

"All those now in south Lebanon are terrorists who are related in some way to Hezbollah," Mr Ramon said.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5219360.stm

Yeah... and if you believe that I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you.
Hopefully one undamaged by precision bombs? http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/GermanNightmare/Wha.gif

They live in their own reality...


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5219360.stm

That's psychopathic.

Hopefully one undamaged by precision bombs? http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/GermanNightmare/Wha.gif
Aaaw, you had to ask didn't you :(

Don't get me wrong, I'm usually pro-Israel, but I think they may have lost the plot. I mean, a precision Israeli missile hit an unmistakable UN station. Are they just attacking whoever they want and not listening to anybody?
You're speaking as though something like this has never happened before and as though they've never attacked the US military...

I personally dont want to take a side in this war but, come on Israel, if you want to defeat terrorism air strikes are surley not the way to do it.By killing lebanese citizens(including many children)they are just on one big recruitment drive for hezbollah(or however you spell it)Isral are the biggest military power in the region, perhaps if they started acting responsibly and proprtionatlythere would be less terrorists to attack them.
This however does not negate the fact that hezbollah has attacked israel and killed their citizens and deserve to be punished.
anyway! wasnt this isreali incentive started to free two of their captured soldiers.They are shooting themselves in the foot because many more israeli soldiers and citizens are going to die as a result of this conflict(or was it all just an excuse to reinvade lebannon and reinstate their authority over the region)

The Un does have a very good record of withdrawing its forces if you attack them so amybe they just wanted to be able to carry out a gencoide unobserved by the world.

The "world" is already against Israel... but they have no reason to care what the rest of the world thinks about them.True..

as long as Washington(White House+ Congress) use their DAMNED veto.. Israel can keep killing as many men-women-and-children thay want.

Don't get me wrong, I'm usually pro-Israel, but I think they may have lost the plot. I mean, a precision Israeli missile hit an unmistakable UN station. Are they just attacking whoever they want and not listening to anybody?

You do know with this post you've pretty much declared membership in the J00-Hating Muslim NeoNazi League.

No it isn't. You have no understanding of how recruitment for terrorism works.

Probably not. Could you explain it to me please? I know (or think I know) a lot of it has to do with the media, much like the USA and Fox News. But if I recall correctly they use Satelite TV stations to broadcast to people in Europe from the middle east. So even though the people from the Middle East in Europe are in Europe, they can still get the same channels and everything from back home. They're kind of like little Middle Eastern colonies in Europe.

Ok, maybe I got a little off topic.

Who cares? Israel has this wonderfull "fuck off" additude going, and with the way they are handeling it, it's only a matter of time before they kill all the Hezbollah terrorists.
Meh. At the moment it doesn't even look like they're going to win a military victory. They can bomb the shit out of Lebanon, but so far they haven't hurt Hezbollah in the slightest.

And once they walk into Lebanon...well, we know the story (http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,428711,00.html).

But if I recall correctly they use Satelite TV stations to broadcast to people in Europe from the middle east. So even though the people from the Middle East in Europe are in Europe, they can still get the same channels and everything from back home.
It's the internet. TV Stations (not that they're popular anyways, even in Lebanon no one was watching Hezbollah TV) are too easily monitored and shut down.

Don't get me wrong, I'm usually pro-Israel, but I think they may have lost the plot. I mean, a precision Israeli missile hit an unmistakable UN station. Are they just attacking whoever they want and not listening to anybody?
Here's how it stands. Let's do an analogy. A bully picks and picks and picks a fight. Finally, in desperation, he slugs someone. This 'victim' starts punching the bully to the point where everyone watching is sickened by the sight. But no one moves to stop the fight because the 'victim' is asking the bully to say "I give up". The bully won't give in until he realizes the cause is futile -- no one will stop the fight.

Here we are with Israel and the Hezbollah. Israel has been picked on and taunted, no matter what concessions they have given to the Arabs. Finally, the Hezbollah strikes out and kills or captures a couple IDF soldiers. This is one fight that Israel must be allowed to finish. It must be such an overwhelming defeat of the Hezbollah and their Lebanese accomplices that the world is sickened by the carnage. Everyone will want a ceasefire, but the only ceasefire that is worth anything is the one that happens after the Arab agressors are defeated and give up. Nothing less will settle anything.

As a sidebar, this is exactly the policy we should be following in Iraq, but we're too squeamish to do so.

Are they just attacking whoever they want and not listening to anybody?
sorry, have to say it in the name of antiunilateralism. "you mean like america?"

there.

You do know with this post you've pretty much declared membership in the J00-Hating Muslim NeoNazi League.

Not really, I'd still side with Israel over the muslims.

Here's how it stands. Let's do an analogy. A bully picks and picks and picks a fight. Finally, in desperation, he slugs someone. This 'victim' starts punching the bully to the point where everyone watching is sickened by the sight. But no one moves to stop the fight because the 'victim' is asking the bully to say "I give up". The bully won't give in until he realizes the cause is futile -- no one will stop the fight.

Here we are with Israel and the Hezbollah. Israel has been picked on and taunted, no matter what concessions they have given to the Arabs. Finally, the Hezbollah strikes out and kills or captures a couple IDF soldiers. This is one fight that Israel must be allowed to finish. It must be such an overwhelming defeat of the Hezbollah and their Lebanese accomplices that the world is sickened by the carnage. Everyone will want a ceasefire, but the only ceasefire that is worth anything is the one that happens after the Arab agressors are defeated and give up. Nothing less will settle anything.

As a sidebar, this is exactly the policy we should be following in Iraq, but we're too squeamish to do so.

It looks more like Israel's punching random people than the bully.

Don't get me wrong, I'm usually pro-Israel, but I think they may have lost the plot. I mean, a precision Israeli missile hit an unmistakable UN station. Are they just attacking whoever they want and not listening to anybody?


I agree with you. I generally am pro Israel too (although the state of the Palestinian Refugee Camps should have both Israel and the UN up for violations of human rights). But Israel has gone way to far and need to be stoped. By force (I think Western) if necessary.

I agree with you. I generally am pro Israel too (although the state of the Palestinian Refugee Camps should have both Israel and the UN up for violations of human rights). But Israel has gone way to far and need to be stoped. By force (I think Western) if necessary.

Nah, sanctions would do. Israel is kept afloat by support from the USA and "special status" with the EU. So, I'd put sanctions on:


Israel until they withdraw from Lebanon and from the Palestinian territories (defined as the territories occpied since 1967, or other borders agreed to by the Palestinian Authority, or a majority of the UN General Assembly).
Lebanon until they impliment UN Security Council Resolution 1559.
The Palestinian Territories until the return of any captured IDF forces and the termination of rocket attacks on the State of Israel.


It's harsh, but fair, and should be enough to end the downright dangerous status quo.

Nah, sanctions would do. Israel is kept afloat by support from the USA and "special status" with the EU. So, I'd put sanctions on:


Israel until they withdraw from Lebanon and from the Palestinian territories (defined as the territories occpied since 1967, or other borders agreed to by the Palestinian Authority, or a majority of the UN General Assembly).
Lebanon until they impliment UN Security Council Resolution 1559.
The Palestinian Territories until the return of any captured IDF forces and the termination of rocket attacks on the State of Israel.


It's harsh, but fair, and should be enough to end the downright dangerous status quo.

I'd put sanctions on any Arab entity that does not submit to total and unilateral disarmament.

Don't get me wrong, I'm usually pro-Israel, but I think they may have lost the plot. I mean, a precision Israeli missile hit an unmistakable UN station. Are they just attacking whoever they want and not listening to anybody?

Yeah. Because that's not what other countries do. *coughUSAcough*

Yeah. Because that's not what other countries do. *coughUSAcough*


Isn't that community-standard in the Middle East?

Isn't that community-standard in the Middle East?

Actually, it's pretty standard everwhere. Nations, like people, tend to be self-interested. If it's in their interest to attack certain folks (or they just see it that way), that's what they'll do. If they can get other nations to agree with them, great. But if not, nations generally find a way to get their way, treaties and international law be damned.

Actually, it's pretty standard everwhere. Nations, like people, tend to be self-interested. If it's in their interest to attack certain folks (or they just see it that way), that's what they'll do. If they can get other nations to agree with them, great. But if not, nations generally find a way to get their way, treaties and international law be damned.


Awright. Pretty much so.

I'm tangentially guessing that the precision missile thing was added because the only precision weapon the Arabs have is a suicide terrorist.

Post911, I severely object to allowing any Arab to have as much as a boxcutter.

I'd put sanctions on any Arab entity that does not submit to total and unilateral disarmament.

They have the right to self-defense as much as Israel does. Recently all Arab states have been rather benign - especially Lebanon, of all nations. The Lebanese army hasn't even fought back.

They have the right to self-defense as much as Israel does. Recently all Arab states have been rather benign - especially Lebanon, of all nations. The Lebanese army hasn't even fought back.

I don't even recognise their right to exist in the first place - period.

Those 5 Arab states started the war.
If they want the war to end, they can surrender - unconditionally.

It looks more like Israel's punching random people than the bully.
To continue the analogy, I think they're mostly well meaning bystanders that are making a futile and half-hearted effort to break up the fight. Between the Lebanese government and Hezbollah, there is no difference.

Who cares? Israel has this wonderfull "fuck off" additude going, and with the way they are handeling it, it's only a matter of time before they kill all the Hezbollah terrorists.
The way they are handling it, it's only a matter of time before everybody does indeed 'fuck off' - leaving Israel where it ought to be, namely completely isolated from the international community.

Here's how it stands. Let's do an analogy. A bully picks and picks and picks a fight. Finally, in desperation, he slugs someone. This 'victim' starts punching the bully to the point where everyone watching is sickened by the sight. But no one moves to stop the fight because the 'victim' is asking the bully to say "I give up". The bully won't give in until he realizes the cause is futile -- no one will stop the fight.

Here we are with Israel and the Hezbollah. Israel has been picked on and taunted, no matter what concessions they have given to the Arabs. Finally, the Hezbollah strikes out and kills or captures a couple IDF soldiers. This is one fight that Israel must be allowed to finish. It must be such an overwhelming defeat of the Hezbollah and their Lebanese accomplices that the world is sickened by the carnage. Everyone will want a ceasefire, but the only ceasefire that is worth anything is the one that happens after the Arab agressors are defeated and give up. Nothing less will settle anything.

As a sidebar, this is exactly the policy we should be following in Iraq, but we're too squeamish to do so.

Well, it's more like Israel is punching the bully and all the people nearby in a rant, more likely. It's natural to expect the rest of the people around to try to stop it. Plus, to be a bully, you really need to be the bad, big boy. Israel looks bigger than the Lebanon.

And again, should I wold be a christian, in Lebanon, and get my house bombed just because some Hezbollah guerrilla was nearby, forced to leave my city and lose a family member, I would start a movement to kick the crap of both the IDF and Hezbollah.

Also, I don't see how the Iraqi picked you into a fight, you know? And speaking about bullies, the USA goverment is perhaps the closest thing to it in international politics.

I don't even recognise their right to exist in the first place - period.

So, you descend to the level of the terrorists, who refuse to recognise Israel's right to exist? Perhaps you ought to practice what you preach.

Those 5 Arab states started the war.
If they want the war to end, they can surrender - unconditionally.

Israel and her Arab neighbours have already conducted peace. There's noone for them to surrender to, and no war to terminate. Just pro-Israeli hyperbole.

I don't even recognise their right to exist in the first place - period.




I hear they don't recognise your right to exist either.

I'd put sanctions on any Arab entity that does not submit to total and unilateral disarmament.

Because heaven forbid that Jordan and Egypt have a standing army to keep their neighbours from taking over.

Racist.

And with your denial of their right to exist:

Genocide advocator.

Just like your favorite Hezbollah terrorist. Aren't you happy? You're so close to the ones you despise you could be brothers.

I personally dont want to take a side in this war but, come on Israel, if you want to defeat terrorism air strikes are surley not the way to do it.By killing lebanese citizens(including many children)

Do you know, I love the way people always place emphasis on the fact the children are being killed. In the papers, on the news, on NS. The simple fact is LIFE is being taken, child, adult, what ever, it's just as significant.

I support Israel, but they could stop bombing BLOODY AMBULANCES AND UN POSTS. GAH. However, unfortunately, I think that even if they do do so we can't do much about it. No one is going to do anything about Hezbollah, and we should not let Hezbollah get away with attacks on Israel and Israeli soldiers. They are a terrorist organisation after all. If Israel withdraws now, the attacks will continue intermittently until Hezbollah is destroyed. Best to do it now and get it over and done with. The best way to do so would be to send in an international force, like Blair suggested, but there's no one who's willing to volunteer. Lebanon can't get rid of Hezbollah, and that only leaves Israel with the messy task.

Do you know, I love the way people always place emphasis on the fact the children are being killed. In the papers, on the news, on NS. The simple fact is LIFE is being taken, child, adult, what ever, it's just as significant.

Yea. But as has always been the case, children are considered to posses the purest form of innocence. However false this thought might be, if you kill a child, you kill an innocent, that's the way it has always been considered, and still is.

I'm not saying it's good or anything, it just is.

I support Israel, but they could stop bombing BLOODY AMBULANCES AND UN POSTS. GAH. However, unfortunately, I think that even if they do do so we can't do much about it. No one is going to do anything about Hezbollah, and we should not let Hezbollah get away with attacks on Israel and Israeli soldiers. They are a terrorist organisation after all. If Israel withdraws now, the attacks will continue intermittently until Hezbollah is destroyed. Best to do it now and get it over and done with. The best way to do so would be to send in an international force, like Blair suggested, but there's no one who's willing to volunteer. Lebanon can't get rid of Hezbollah, and that only leaves Israel with the messy task.

Yea. Too bad that Hezbollah seems to be getting more and more support from other terrorist groups and countries. Looks like Israel is digging it's own grave.

All those now in south Lebanon are terrorists who are related in some way to Hezbollah," Mr Ramon said.


This is bullshit . its costing huge money to travell and ships are limited by the Israeli Navy as to how long they can stay to load evacuees..Tyre hasnt been evacuated for instance.

Call this for what it is . A flwed political decision designed to protect Israeli soldiers at the expense of all others ...terrorist along with Lebanese civilians.

It wont work ..it will destroy buildings and flatten towns but to remove the terrorist you need boots on the ground . hezbollah will be hurt ...along with everyone else ..but hezbollah have bunkers the Israelis cant find without being on the ground ..the lebanese stuck in the south do not .

SNIP.

Go sodomize yourself.

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/1307/1399/1600/DSC01463.jpg

The Un does have a very good record of withdrawing its forces if you attack them so amybe they just wanted to be able to carry out a gencoide unobserved by the world.

Excuse me sir/ma'am but I am going to have to ask you where you got your information that Israel is committing genocide when they are not doing so.

I agree with you. I generally am pro Israel too (although the state of the Palestinian Refugee Camps should have both Israel and the UN up for violations of human rights). But Israel has gone way to far and need to be stoped. By force (I think Western) if necessary.

The last thing the Middle east needs right now is another full fledged war. Besides, Israel wouldn't even lose it anyway.

I don't see what's so wrong with an immediate cease-fire, and then an international coalition (preferably NATO) to root out Hezbollah for good? IIRC France and Germany have already volunteered.

I don't see what's so wrong with an immediate cease-fire, and then an international coalition (preferably NATO) to root out Hezbollah for good? IIRC France and Germany have already volunteered.

Because the basic purpose of the cease-fire ( from the Arab POV ) is to make sure the poor Hizzies don't get sent to their 72 virgins.

But if France and Germany are willing to undertake to eradicate Hizbollah, the IDF can stay home, and the problem is SOLVED.

Nah, sanctions would do. Israel is kept afloat by support from the USA and "special status" with the EU. So, I'd put sanctions on:


Israel until they withdraw from Lebanon and from the Palestinian territories (defined as the territories occpied since 1967, or other borders agreed to by the Palestinian Authority, or a majority of the UN General Assembly).

You mean from the two villeges that they captured? Yea I will agree with that. Provided that Hezbollah is told to stop launching rockets into Israel. As to the borders...there aren't any borders defining a Palestinian state. They had their chance and Yassar Arafat turned down the offer of 95% of the land back. I wouldn't mind a palestinian state but I would be happier when Hamas changes its tune in regards to Israel. That is going to stiffle any hope for this to work.

Lebanon until they impliment UN Security Council Resolution 1559.

Agreed.

The Palestinian Territories until the return of any captured IDF forces and the termination of rocket attacks on the State of Israel.


And to stop sending suicide bombers into Israel.

It's harsh, but fair, and should be enough to end the downright dangerous status quo.

Would you like to place a bet that it will end the dangerous status quo?

Go sodomize yourself.

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/1307/1399/1600/DSC01463.jpg

That was rude.

I don't see what's so wrong with an immediate cease-fire, and then an international coalition (preferably NATO) to root out Hezbollah for good? IIRC France and Germany have already volunteered.

France I am not surprised by as they used to hold the territory that is now Lebanon. Germany might cause some tension however.

That was rude.

Not with NAS. He just called the hizzies my brothers.

Don't get me wrong, I'm usually pro-Israel, but I think they may have lost the plot. I mean, a precision Israeli missile hit an unmistakable UN station. Are they just attacking whoever they want and not listening to anybody?

I think this could be another USS liberty. IE a very regretful mistake (We dont know enough about it yet)

Not with NAS. He just called the hizzies my brothers.

That is still not a reason to be rude. The Lord tells us to turn the other cheek. There is no reason to be angry on an internet chat forum.

That is still not a reason to be rude. The Lord tells us to turn the other cheek. There is no reason to be angry on an internet chat forum.

I could give you another reason: the Lord orders cursed those who curse His people.

I could give you another reason: the Lord orders cursed those who curse His people.

Curse those who curse you and bless those who bless you is actually the quote.

And here's another one for you: He who is without sin, let him cast the first stone.

I think this could be another USS liberty. IE a very regretful mistake (We dont know enough about it yet)The USS Liberty a mistake? Are you suggesting that one was an accident?

I can picture BogMarsh frothing at the mouth while typing some of his answers....

Curse those who curse you and bless those who bless you is actually the quote.


Matthew6, right?

I'm referring to the OT.

I can picture BogMarsh frothing at the mouth while typing some of his answers....


Funny. I can see you crying as you realise that Hizbollah + friends are about to A] Discover they don't get 72 virgins and B] What Shock and Awe is about.

Funny. I can see you crying as you realise that Hizbollah + friends are about to A] Discover they don't get 72 virgins and B] What Shock and Awe is about.
Oh yes. I love Hezb'allah. I in fact hate Jews too. I have a secret closet with Nazi memorabilia.

I also had an aborted baby for breakfast this morning. Yum.

Matthew6, right?

I'm referring to the OT.

So was I:

Genesis 12:3 I will bless those who bless you and curse those who treat you with contempt. All the families on earth will be blessed throug you.

And it is Matthew 5:22 But I say,if you are even angry with someone, you are subject to judgment! If you call someone an idiot, you are in danger of being brought before the court. And if you curse someone, you are in danger of the fires of hell

Here's how it stands. Let's do an analogy. A bully picks and picks and picks a fight. Finally, in desperation, he slugs someone. This 'victim' starts punching the bully to the point where everyone watching is sickened by the sight. But no one moves to stop the fight because the 'victim' is asking the bully to say "I give up". The bully won't give in until he realizes the cause is futile -- no one will stop the fight.

You left out the part of the analogy where the victem (Israel) goes and gets a bunch of guns from home and starts shooting everyone he sees. To expand your bully analogy, yes Israel was provked, but they have proceded to go Columbine.

I don't see what's so wrong with an immediate cease-fire, and then an international coalition (preferably NATO) to root out Hezbollah for good? IIRC France and Germany have already volunteered.

I'm not sure how many more countries have volunteered, though. Britain doesn't seem very happy, Australia has withdrawn all its UN personnel and the Americans will be very, very pissed if sent into another war. I don't know about any others, but I haven't heard anything.

So was I:

Genesis 12:3 I will bless those who bless you and curse those who treat you with contempt. All the families on earth will be blessed throug you.

And it is Matthew 5:22 But I say,if you are even angry with someone, you are subject to judgment! If you call someone an idiot, you are in danger of being brought before the court. And if you curse someone, you are in danger of the fires of hell


Thank you very much for your lesson.

Now, please be so kind as to warn those who have doubt that Israel follows the Command of the Elohim to own and possess the Holy Land that they are in need of immediate repentance.

Baruch HaShem! Baruch HaRuach HaKhodesh! Baruch Ha Mashiyah Yeshua!

You left out the part of the analogy where the victem (Israel) goes and gets a bunch of guns from home and starts shooting everyone he sees. To expand your bully analogy, yes Israel was provked, but they have proceded to go Columbine.
Nah, Israel just needs to beat the tar out of everything in Lebanon. Then two things will happen. First, other countries won't be so anxious to host terror-promoting militias. Second, there will be some second thoughts on whether or not the terrorist militias located in other countries will try Israel. But none of that will happen if there is some sort of a brokered cease-fire.

Thank you very much for your lesson.

Now, please be so kind as to warn those who have doubt that Israel follows the Command of the Elohim to own and possess the Holy Land that they are in need of immediate repentance.

How can I ask them to repent unless you yourself repent? As the Bible also says, unless you yourself forgive, you cannot be forgiven.

Baruch HaShem! Baruch HaRuach HaKhodesh! Baruch Ha Mashiyah Yeshua!

My hebrew is a tad rusty.

How can I ask them to repent unless you yourself repent? As the Bible also says, unless you yourself forgive, you cannot be forgiven.



My hebrew is a tad rusty.

You're saying >YOU< cannot preach because >I< don't do what you think I should do?


Ask for the gift of Tongues. Nope. I'm NOT being sarcastic.

You're saying >YOU< cannot preach because >I< don't do what you think I should do?

I was just stating that unless you forgive, you yourself can not be forgiven. As to preaching, I would rather discuss than preach for more is learned in discussion than can ever be learned by preaching.

Ask for the gift of Tongues. Nope. I'm NOT being sarcastic.

The Lord tells us not to ask for the gift of Tongues.

I was just stating that unless you forgive, you yourself can not be forgiven. As to preaching, I would rather discuss than preach for more is learned in discussion than can ever be learned by preaching.



The Lord tells us not to ask for the gift of Tongues.


I'm saying that you engage in sophistry.

You're saying >YOU< cannot preach because >I< don't do what you think I should do?


2Timothy. 3rd chapter 1-17, methinks.

Go sodomize yourself.

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/1307/1399/1600/DSC01463.jpg

Your error link speaks volumes about the state of your mind. Blank.

But then again, you could never refute the allegation that your behaviour and what you advocate are all too similar to what the terrorists you so deplore want. One only has to flip the targets and BAM! Terrorist Bogmarsh.

Not with NAS. He just called the hizzies my brothers.

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's a duck.

If it calls for complete destruction of a faction without even trying to figure out how to go about it in a practical manner, understands only unlimited violence, would support any atrocity by its favored faction, it's a terrorist or terrorist supporter.

Bogmarsh, that is you.

Hezbollah, that is you.

Ergo, BogMarsh = Euro Hezbollah.

Matthew6, right?

I'm referring to the OT.

The kind that talks about stoning kids because they won't listen to their parents? That explains sooooo much.

Still seeing a lot of similarities between BogMarsh and Islamic fundies.

The kind that talks about stoning kids because they won't listen to their parents? That explains sooooo much.

Still seeing a lot of similarities between BogMarsh and Islamic fundies.

Once again, go sodomize yourself


I'm a progressive Democrat, but your topic was shut down simply because it made excellent points.
It's completely wrong, but next time either make less effective points, or become a progressive Democrat, like I did

I don't bother to play patsycake with progressives. What would be the point?

I'm saying that you engage in sophistry.

You're saying >YOU< cannot preach because >I< don't do what you think I should do?


2Timothy. 3rd chapter 1-17, methinks.

Verses 1-9 deals with the Dangers of the last days and the last 8 verses tells Timothy to remain true to the faith.

I think you are talking about chapter 4 where Paul tells Timothy I solemnly urge you in the presence of God and Christ Jesus, who will someday judge the living and the dead when he appears to set up his Kingdom: Preach the word of God.Be prepared,whether the time is favorable or not. Patiently correct, rebuke and encourage your people with good teaching. 2 Timothy 4:1,2.

Once again, go sodomize yourself




I don't bother to play patsycake with progressives. What would be the point?

At the rate you are going, something is nagging at me that you really are not a Christian at all.

Once again, go sodomize yourself

Mmhmmm, BogMarsh the broken record too. I wonder why he can't refute the points? Because to do so would be to confront himself perhaps? And to do that, he'd see what he really is?

Maybe that would break his simplistic world view?

I have a prediction BogMarsh. Either you will ignore me, choosing to run away, or you will respond with pithy insults and strawmen in an attempt to avoid refuting the points.

Now then, prove me right.

At the rate you are going, something is nagging at me that you really are not a Christian at all.
Oh no, he is. Just.... a 'convicted' one.

Edit: Not meaning he's a criminal obviously :p

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's a duck.

If it calls for complete destruction of a faction without even trying to figure out how to go about it in a practical manner, understands only unlimited violence, would support any atrocity by its favored faction, it's a terrorist or terrorist supporter.

Bogmarsh, that is you.

Hezbollah, that is you.

Ergo, BogMarsh = Euro Hezbollah.



Hmmm atacking the person and not the post again...

This comming from someone so moraly bankrupt that he cant see that at times there are things that must be fought for . And that compares a terrorist organization to a legitamate state on an unequal basis ..in fact giving more credibility to the terrorist of hezbollah .

You have exposed yourself so many times on this board as to your bias ..and your methods of debate have not really improved much at all.

Oh no, he is. Just.... a 'convicted' one.

I am having a hard time believing that he is one judging by his posts. I normally do not judge but if he claims to be a Christian, then he needs to stop insulting other posters and telling them to "go sodomize themselves". That is not what being a Christian is all about.

At the rate you are going, something is nagging at me that you really are not a Christian at all.


Preaching to the choir? I see sophism in you.
I have nothing to do with you. Conversation is over.

Preaching to the choir? I see sophism in you.
I have nothing to do with you. Conversation is over.

*sighs*

Not preaching to the choir at all. You are most definitely not acting like one. Luckily I have patients to deal with it and I am willing to help you.

One thousand five hundred plus missiles and rockets have hit Israel.

Since they do not grow naturally in the soil of lebanon and in fact they have iranian and syrian markings on the recovered pieces...


Why is NO pressure being put on Iran and syria to stop the supply ?

how will you get a cease fire if missiles keep being fired ?

BTW they are Using "new" longer range more sophisticated missiles as of today.

So if its so clear who is arming the Hezbollah and we would like lebanon to still exist ....where is the condemnation and pressure that should be brought on Hezbollahs sponsors ?


Why is all the viritol being fired at the Isareli's ?

Something about that is a bit smelly ...dont you think ?

One thousand five hundred plus missiles and rockets have hit Israel.

Since they do not grow naturally in the soil of lebanon and in fact they have iranian and syrian markings on the recovered pieces...


Why is NO pressure being put on Iran and syria to stop the supply ?

Don't you think that Washingtom might just be exerting a tiny bit of pressure in iran and Syria?

how will you get a cease fire if missiles keep being fired ?

BTW they are Using "new" longer range more sophisticated missiles as of today.

Both sides agree to stop firing at each other. Simple.

So if its so clear who is arming the Hezbollah and we would like lebanon to still exist ....where is the condemnation and pressure that should be brought on Hezbollahs sponsors ?

Like I said, the USA/UK will already be taking care of that.

Why is all the viritol being fired at the Isareli's ?

For a complete overreaction that will have Lebanese knocking at the recruiting offices of Hezbollah for decades.

[QUOTE=Ultraextreme Sanity] Something about that is a bit smelly ...dont you think ?

Convenient timing, considering the recent plant to put sanctions on Iran.

Hmmm atacking the person and not the post again...

Aha, now comes the defense from someone incapable of higher reasoning, or at least too lazy to read how this all started.

If you had bothered to read, you would know exactly where I am coming from. Tell me, do you really share BogMarsh's sentiments? Complete extermination and/or enslavement of all Arabs? His views are no better than Hezbollahs


This comming from someone so moraly bankrupt that he cant see that at times there are things that must be fought for . And that compares a terrorist organization to a legitamate state on an unequal basis ..in fact giving more credibility to the terrorist of hezbollah .

Aha, first you say I attack the person and not the post, then you attack my character. Pot, meet black. And I was not aware that BogMarsh the person was actually a state. Do come back when you learn to read more carefully.

It is amusing to see your rather infantile grasp of reading comprehension and logic. Really.


You have exposed yourself so many times on this board as to your bias ..and your methods of debate have not really improved much at all.

Tell me, are you aware that BogMarsh is quite willing to support Israel in the event they choose to slaughter anyone of their choosing? In fact, they could build gas chambers for the Palestinians and march every man woman and child inside, and he would cheer them on.

My bias, is tempered by humanity and reason. It is the distinction between man and beast. BogMarsh has long since lost that distinction with his support of such actions.

Are you another one too?

As to my methods of argument not improving, well, considering the rather monolithic thinking of the people I argue against, is that any surprise? Reason, logic, facts, all worthless in the face of one sided characters who view the world in black and white and refuse to see the scope that is reality.

I could change my tactics, but why should I lower myself to your standards.

Verses 1-9 deals with the Dangers of the last days and the last 8 verses tells Timothy to remain true to the faith.

I think you are talking about chapter 4 where Paul tells Timothy I solemnly urge you in the presence of God and Christ Jesus, who will someday judge the living and the dead when he appears to set up his Kingdom: Preach the word of God.Be prepared,whether the time is favorable or not. Patiently correct, rebuke and encourage your people with good teaching. 2 Timothy 4:1,2.


I'm referring to the last days indeed.

Go forth, spread the Word, thirst for the Spirit, and an end to endless internal debates.

If you still have patience left, try helping out at a homeless shelter or a drug-rehab project. Takes me about 4 nights a week, and I'm darned sure there is need for more help right in an area near you.

One thousand five hundred plus missiles and rockets have hit Israel.Casualties:
Israel: 1,233 wounded, 51 killed
Lebanon: 1,661 wounded, 398 killed

Now, 398 is probably smaller than it really is. It doesn't take into account the bodies trapped under rubble.
how will you get a cease fire if missiles keep being fired ?To be fair, Israel was the first one to resort to missiles in this conflict. Hezbullah was hoping for a prisoner exchange, not a new war. It's unlikely they'll see any reason why they should stop what Israel started.

So if its so clear who is arming the Hezbollah and we would like lebanon to still exist ....where is the condemnation and pressure that should be brought on Hezbollahs sponsors ?There's a slight problem with that. No one has is going to make a fool of themselves by publicly condemning either Syria or Iran on evidence consisting of markings on missiles after the show Colin Powell pulled off in the SC. Any pressure will be meaningless since they can just pull out the "You falsified the evidence; you've done it before" card.


Why is all the viritol being fired at the Isareli's ?

Something about that is a bit smelly ...dont you think ?Note the casualties above. That would be why.

I'm referring to the last days indeed.

Go forth, spread the Word, thirst for the Spirit, and an end to endless internal debates.

It does say spread the word. You are indeed correct. That can be taken to mean: Preach,teach, discuss (which can be considered teaching), etc.

If you still have patience left, try helping out at a homeless shelter or a drug-rehab project. Takes me about 4 nights a week, and I'm darned sure there is need for more help right in an area near you.

I do what I can to spread the word of God.

To be fair, Israel was the first one to resort to missiles in this conflict. Hezbullah was hoping for a prisoner exchange, not a new war. It's unlikely they'll see any reason why they should stop what Israel started.

Laerod, Hezbollah started this with an attack that included rockets so to say that Israel was the first to use missiles is relatively inaccurate.

It does say spread the word. You are indeed correct. That can be taken to mean: Preach,teach, discuss (which can be considered teaching), etc.



I do what I can to spread the word of God.

Fine. Go out to a Project. Get your hands dirty. Wash some feet. Feed 'em. You know the drill, or so I hope.

Aha, now comes the defense from someone incapable of higher reasoning, or at least too lazy to read how this all started.

If you had bothered to read, you would know exactly where I am coming from. Tell me, do you really share BogMarsh's sentiments? Complete extermination and/or enslavement of all Arabs? His views are no better than Hezbollahs

I noticed a pattern from your other post and it seems to carry over into every subject you comment on ..

Bogmarshes opinions carry no more or less weight than yours do .
An extremist for either side is the same . You both IMO do more harm than good with your stance .

You seem to think its not worth fighting terrorism..in fact I get the impression you think fighting and war is useless entirely .

Its a good thing the people who decided to fight in WWII (after those with similar opinion as yourself , appeased the evil in the world) decided to take a stand and found the will and a cause to fight for .

Israel is ONLY fighting for SURVIVAL...Hezbollah is fighting for DESRUCTION of Israel and a greater war for the glory of Islam ..you cant seem to wrap your head around that fact .



Aha, first you say I attack the person and not the post, then you attack my character. Pot, meet black. And I was not aware that BogMarsh the person was actually a state. Do come back when you learn to read more carefully.

I attacked your post...YOU are the post ..comprehend that .

It is amusing to see your rather infantile grasp of reading comprehension and logic. Really.

I present exibit A . Are you trying to prove my point ? Or is it something you are unaware of doing on some level ?



Tell me, are you aware that BogMarsh is quite willing to support Israel in the event they choose to slaughter anyone of their choosing? In fact, they could build gas chambers for the Palestinians and march every man woman and child inside, and he would cheer them on.

My bias, is tempered by humanity and reason. It is the distinction between man and beast. BogMarsh has long since lost that distinction with his support of such actions.

Are you another one too?

If you can sow me advocating anything of the kind on this bord or any other , do so .

Whats lost in all the bullshit is THE real plight of the Palestinians and lebanese who are being used as puppets by those with the millions and billions to arm militia while the poor and jobless , sit as human refuse to be used as the Arab and Persian powers see fit ..the pawns on the chess board .
The raw material being kept in the state they are in deliberately to provide raw material for jihad .

look at a map ..see Israel...see how large and imposing it is ?

Now look at its avowed enemies..those that are commited to its destruction.

Its a very easy choice to make from a moral standpoint .

Fine. Go out to a Project. Get your hands dirty. Wash some feet. Feed 'em. You know the drill, or so I hope.

Can I ask you why you are so angry? The bible tells us not to be quick to anger.

Can I ask you why you are so angry? The bible tells us not to be quick to anger.


I'm not exactly angry. I just don't believe in wasting energy that could be more usefully deployed in actually doing the Lord's work. Intellectual discussions about the Word? No, thank you very much.


having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them. They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over weak-willed women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth.

Less thinking, and more getting the hands dirty, bro.
The intellectual discussions are for yourself and for pleasure.
The getting your hands dirty part is for the sake of the Kingdom.

Casualties:
Israel: 1,233 wounded, 51 killed
Lebanon: 1,661 wounded, 398 killed

Now, 398 is probably smaller than it really is. It doesn't take into account the bodies trapped under rubble.
To be fair, Israel was the first one to resort to missiles in this conflict. Hezbullah was hoping for a prisoner exchange, not a new war. It's unlikely they'll see any reason why they should stop what Israel started.
There's a slight problem with that. No one has is going to make a fool of themselves by publicly condemning either Syria or Iran on evidence consisting of markings on missiles after the show Colin Powell pulled off in the SC. Any pressure will be meaningless since they can just pull out the "You falsified the evidence; you've done it before" card.

EXCUSE ME..A rocket and missile attack along with mortars preceded and provided cover for the killing and kidnapping that started this war .
Hezbolah miscalculated the israeli response..their problem ..ISRAEL did not start anything ..NO ONE in the world claims that.
And if you have a problem with the US showing the pieces of missiles...last I looked they did not grow from the ground ..Lebenon cant produce them and they are exloading all over Israel...ther's more than enough credible evidence INCLUDING pictures of the missiles being fired from lebanese cities to prove they exist ...proving their origion is a SALM DUNK .
Combine that with the six years of records and the capture of boatloads of armament intended for hezbollah ..your argument is torn to tiny shreds .


Note the casualties above. That would be why.

War is not a game ..you do not keep score by casualties ..Hezbollah is responsible for Lebanese casualties for two reasons ..the unilaterally declared war from lebanes soil..and they attack using civilians as cover.
THAT argument holds no merit what so ever .

The only rule in war is to win .

Hezbollah has no rules and no restrictions ..no one to answer to except Israeli force .

Unless and until the international community agreess to join with the Lebanes army to disarm them .

I'm not exactly angry. I just don't believe in wasting energy that could be more usefully deployed in actually doing the Lord's work. Intellectual discussions about the Word? No, thank you very much.




Less thinking, and more getting the hands dirty, bro.
The intellectual discussions are for yourself and for pleasure.
The getting your hands dirty part is for the sake of the Kingdom.


Since when does the Lords work include advocating wiping out Arabs ?

the Lord of War maybe ..but what lord do you speak of ?

I'm not exactly angry. I just don't believe in wasting energy that could be more usefully deployed in actually doing the Lord's work. Intellectual discussions about the Word? No, thank you very much.

Why not? They are fun to have.

Less thinking, and more getting the hands dirty, bro.
The intellectual discussions are for yourself and for pleasure.
The getting your hands dirty part is for the sake of the Kingdom.

And telling people about the Lord is not getting your hands dirty? :confused:

Why not? They are fun to have.



And telling people about the Lord is not getting your hands dirty? :confused:


No, sir. Try bathing, feeding, and finally housing someone who has been on the streets for quite a while. Try getting people into rehab-projects. Drive a watertruck to Mississippi.

I'm very sorry, but I consider your intellectual attitude towards Faith to be frankly, highly sinful. I'm too much reminded of those who want to testify at the Table, but never hang around to sweep the floor.

No, sir. Try bathing, feeding, and finally housing someone who has been on the streets for quite a while. Try getting people into rehab-projects. Drive a watertruck to Mississippi.

I'm very sorry, but I consider your intellectual attitude towards Faith to be frankly, highly sinful. I'm too much reminded of those who want to testify at the Table, but never hang around to sweep the floor.

Is it just me or is this sounding somewhat prideful of what you do? You have no idea what I do when I am not posting here. My private life really is none of your concern. To call my "intellectual attidude" about how I spread the word sinful really is disingenious to the Lord. The Lord himself says good deeds alone does not get one into heaven. We have to live our life according to his word and that is what I am trying to do.

Is it just me or is this sounding somewhat prideful of what you do? You have no idea what I do when I am not posting here. My private life really is none of your concern. To call my "intellectual attidude" about how I spread the word sinful really is disingenious to the Lord. The Lord himself says good deeds alone does not get one into heaven. We have to live our life according to his word and that is what I am trying to do.


When you consider chatting to be getting your hands dirty... then there is something wrong. Very wrong indeed.

'you've no idea - it's not your concern' - odd. All of it. Are you sure you do believe? Or are you just trying to mock Faith?

I know what I referred to in Timothy. I know what who it is talking about.
'Have nothing to do with them. '

When you consider chatting to be getting your hands dirty... then there is something wrong. Very wrong indeed.

'you've no idea - it's not your concern' - odd. All of it. Are you sure you do believe? Or are you just trying to mock Faith?

I know what I referred to in Timothy. I know what who it is talking about.
'Have nothing to do with them. '

Do not judge unless you yourself be judged.

Do not judge unless you yourself be judged.

Test the spirits - the Apostle Paul.

Test the spirits - the Apostle Paul.

Do not tempt the Lord is actually attributed to the Lord Savior during his 40 day fast. Afterwhich, he was hungry.

Do not tempt the Lord is actually attributed to the Lord Savior during his 40 day fast. Afterwhich, he was hungry.

We're not tempting Adonai the Elohim - we're testing your spirit.

I noticed a pattern from your other post and it seems to carry over into every subject you comment on ..

Well, now it appears that you have been observing me. Well enough. I cannot say I do not do the same.


Bogmarshes opinions carry no more or less weight than yours do .
An extremist for either side is the same . You both IMO do more harm than good with your stance .

Bogmarshes, Bogmarsh's? Interesting quandary there.

But I digress. I will agree with your statement that extremism is bad. In fact, I move to further add that extremism in any shape and form is bad.


You seem to think its not worth fighting terrorism..in fact I get the impression you think fighting and war is useless entirely .

First and foremost, fighting terrorism. I do not deny that terrorism should be stopped by whatever means most effective. However, I get the impression that many war advocators on this board simply do not understand that there may be other ways of stopping it instead of merely bombing it.

Terrorism is not war between two nations, where the borders are defined, there is a system of government to attack, and territory to conquer.

Terrorism is borderless, and has no territory to speak of.

Attempting to combat terrorism using the same mechanics of war that one uses against nations is ultimately doomed to failure.

That is where we differ. In Vietnam, the American government blindly believed that communism could be fought only and only with violence. What did it accomplish? Nothing but massive death tolls and numerous atrocities.

In Thailand, where the communist insurgency was no less violent than their counterparts in Vietnam, the kingdom found a solution that saw the absorbtion of their foes.

It is like the saying among the mafia. Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer. The mafia may be criminals, but they are very pragmatic.

The cowboy mentality of 'shoot them all and let god sort it out' is not a cureall for every single problem. And until more people learn that, we shall see as much conflict in the real world as we see on NSG everyday.


Its a good thing the people who decided to fight in WWII (after those with similar opinion as yourself , appeased the evil in the world) decided to take a stand and found the will and a cause to fight for .

Now this is nothing more than a straw man. Germany was not a terrorist faction, it was a nation. The use of war and it's implements, geared as it is against other nations, are workable strategems.

Counter-terrorist operations can never work if they use those same strategems. According to Eutrusca, our resident Vietnam vet who was assigned to such operations, even he acknowledges that using only violence will achieve nothing.


Israel is ONLY fighting for SURVIVAL...Hezbollah is fighting for DESRUCTION of Israel and a greater war for the glory of Islam ..you cant seem to wrap your head around that fact .

The Kingdom of Thailand fought for survival. The communist insurgency fought for it's overthrow and subsequent reformation under their rule. Their commitment to their goals cannot have been said to be any less than those of the Hezbollah. And yet, where are the communists of Thailand now?

When you acknowledge that there are other means of solving this problem, real solutions that have been proven to work in similar situations, solutions that have not been attempted in this scenario, perhaps we shall have a common ground of debate then.

Until then, I fear you will merely see guns, bullets, and bombs as the only solution to everything.


I attacked your post...YOU are the post ..comprehend that .

I present exibit A . Are you trying to prove my point ? Or is it something you are unaware of doing on some level ?


Good, you know how to determine whether it is a character attack or not. However, you did not grasp one particular thing. The views espoused by BogMarsh are so much like Hezbollah's, I felt that they were identical.


If you can sow me advocating anything of the kind on this bord or any other , do so .

I can only show you the posts that I have seen you make before. And in this thread, you have come to BogMarshs defence. I made it known the kind of person BogMarsh is. A person who believes Israel has right of dominion over the world, to which all other nations are beholden to. In short, a global empire under Israel.

Would you still defend him and his views as such?

It is in my view that any one nation that believes that it should become such an empire, and even worse, attempt to make that belief a reality, should vanish forever.

Ancient Rome, the Mongolian Empire, the third Reich, all of these empires attempted to conquer the world. They ultimately perished. Should any nation follow that goal, they too should perish. There should be no exceptions.


Whats lost in all the bullshit is THE real plight of the Palestinians and lebanese who are being used as puppets by those with the millions and billions to arm militia while the poor and jobless , sit as human refuse to be used as the Arab and Persian powers see fit ..the pawns on the chess board .
The raw material being kept in the state they are in deliberately to provide raw material for jihad .

As the saying goes, it takes two hands to clap. The plight of the Palestinians cannot be entirely blamed in Israel, to do so is nothing more than the bias we have spoken of. But at the same time, it is not entirely the fault of the aggressors in the 5 day war. Had events played out differently in the aftermath of that war, perhaps the blame would fall on different shoulders.

As with Lebanon, again, it took two hands to clap. The IDF's response was completely out of proportion as are their actions to date.

But the blame game does no one any good. Because all it does is harden stances and produce harsher responses.

But neither Hezbollah or the IDF is willing to take real steps forward. Real steps to ending the conflict.

Do you remember when you asked if anything could be done to end the madness? Do you remember my reply? Do you understand my reasoning now?

Neither Hezbollah nor the IDF will listen. They are as committed to the destruction of each other as any can be. And the only thing that will result is even more grief to the civilians ground to paste under their war.

That is why I made my suggestion. Only when Israel is willing to actually cooperate with Lebanon in a meaningful manner, as opposed to making demands while bombing it, can there be a real hope to ending Hezbollah as a force.

But the hawks care not for it. For all the hawks understand is war. And war is what they will get. Until they are dead, the battlefields turned red with the blood of the innocent. For that is what hawks know. Nothing else.


look at a map ..see Israel...see how large and imposing it is ?


Size, as Russia found to it's dismay, matters not when the opponent holds significant advantages in training, tactics, equipment or a sufficient combination of the above.


Now look at its avowed enemies..those that are commited to its destruction.

Its a very easy choice to make from a moral standpoint .

Hezbollah is not exactly marked on the map. Syria, Lebanon, Egypt and Jordan do not have a declared "destroy Israel" agenda. Iran, possibly.

We're not tempting Adonai the Elohim - we're testing your spirit.

I know my spirit is strong. How strong is your spirit?

Got to go now. May peace be with you.

Matthew6, right?

I'm referring to the OT.

wernt you the one who said that the ot doesnt count when I used some nasty quotes to show that it is not just islam that has nasty peices of text or was that someone else?double standards much(if it wasnt you then I am sorry)

Israel is a prodigious despiser of the UN and has a policy of ignoring the international community with regard to its war crimes in the west bank and gaza. Israel should face sanctions and be made to pay war reparations.

NAS my defending bogman was as distatefull a chore as I have had in a long time...but I felt it was ...needed...maybe the sun got to me.

War is a valuable tool ...in the case of israel ..they MUST remove hezbolah as a threat and hopefully by showing the world just whats at stake...LIVE WAR 24 hrs ..war all the time..they know they cant desroy them completely ..but they can move them and degrade them enough and also put pressur on the international community to come to the aid of Lebanons army to DISARM them as UN resolution 1559 demands .

Vietnam had cold war and strategic implications and cant be simplified as an example here..much larger GLOBAL implications were in play..it was not so simple as kill the communist . Its not a valid comparison to this conflict , just as asian beliefs and pramatism make the Thai method of solving their problem unique to thailand..palestine and israel are two different peoples ..not two diffedrent political parties.

Violence will ACHIEVE what diplomacy cannot and will often force diplomacy when war seems the only option..see the Paris peace talks and Nixons Bombing of the North..and I can list many more.
War is politics using other methods and is a continuation of diplomacy by other means .

The country of Israel fights for its survival..hezbollah and hamas do not WANT to live with Israel ...they want to destroy it .

You must get past that very MAJOR point. Until they are forced to accept that armed conflict will not achieve their goal ..they will fight and they will kill .

You must have a united front against terrorism and those that support it or any efforts are doomed to failure in the long run. Some nut will always cliam to be gods representative on earth and tell the dowtrodden he will lead them to the promised land ...so get rid of the downtrodden...make them usefull productive FREE and thriving...

But until that happens force MUST be met with greater and overwhelming force ..thats what they respect and fear...weakness they thrive on and grow with .

Face it the west is weak ...we save the whales ..they decapitate prisoners and eat the whales..we belive in free speech they belive in covering up their women and only speaking about the RIGHT things as determined by the Mullah in charge...its a clash of cultures and we are woefully unprepared to do whats needed against a hard and unrelentinf fanaticaly driven enemy that see's us ..the west ..as decendent spawn of satan that needs to be cleansed from the earth and lambs ripe for slaughter .

What can be more different than the Taliban and a meeting of the government in Paris ?

I'm saying that you engage in sophistry.

You're saying >YOU< cannot preach because >I< don't do what you think I should do?


2Timothy. 3rd chapter 1-17, methinks.

How about you two lay off before I start quoting the Principia and the Honest book of Truth just to shut you up?

I'm going to quote the " Hobbit" or Plato on politics .

I'm going to quote the " Hobbit" or Plato on politics .

Nah, my stuff is more confusing. And now back to your previously schedualed thread (unless Marsh and the other twit are planning to continue their "Praise-a-thon").

And telling people about the Lord is not getting your hands dirty? :confused:

No. Helping/feeding the sick, the poor, the needy....thats getting your hands dirty.

Im sick of seeing those Christians (and other religious groups) trying to convert people and "save us from sin" standing around and preaching in the middle of Manhattan. I just want to go up to them and say "why the fuck dont you leave us alone and help the 10 homeless people I saw on the way like youre supposed to?"

NAS my defending bogman was as distatefull a chore as I have had in a long time...but I felt it was ...needed...maybe the sun got to me.

With BogMarsh, there is little in his position that needs defending.

But please, keep with the quotes next time, it makes it difficult to see which point you argue against.


War is a valuable tool ...in the case of israel ..they MUST remove hezbolah as a threat and hopefully by showing the world just whats at stake...LIVE WAR 24 hrs ..war all the time..they know they cant desroy them completely ..but they can move them and degrade them enough and also put pressur on the international community to come to the aid of Lebanons army to DISARM them as UN resolution 1559 demands .

Hezbollah must be removed yes, but using the hard approach alone will not suffice. The 'War all the time' approach will only serve to harden Hezbollah and create more strife from which it feeds. Hezbollah is an organization that gains support by hatred of Israel. Israel feeds that hate with their indiscriminate bombings.

Israel will not defeat Hezbollah this way. It attacks the people of Hezbollah, but not it's will to fight.

Think about it. If a man were to come to your neighborhood, executing random people while demanding the survivors turn over several people, would you do as they say? And then they warn you to leave before they flatten all your homes, and kill those who do flee.

No, there is nothing to laud here. Unless Israel wishes to do to Lebanon what the Third Reich did to jews, Hezbollah will not be defeated by pure violence.

And should Israel follow in the steps of the Third Reich, it too, should fall. Should industrialized murder be accepted if it merely happens under the leadership of a democracy? If one still clings to common humanity, the answer should be no.

Attack the will to fight, but not with pure violence. Such will serve no good to anyone, much less Israel.


Vietnam had cold war and strategic implications and cant be simplified as an example here..much larger GLOBAL implications were in play..it was not so simple as kill the communist . Its not a valid comparison to this conflict , just as asian beliefs and pramatism make the Thai method of solving their problem unique to thailand..palestine and israel are two different peoples ..not two diffedrent political parties.

I disagree. The comparisons ARE valid. Palestine and Israel are indeed different people, but only up to a certain point. Regardless of what others may think, they are still human, bound by the limitations of human reasoning, desires, and as such, controllable. Prod them in one direction, they will move to the other. It IS possible to engineer such manipulations if peace is what one desires. But it will not bear the fruit that IDF planners want. Which is military dominance, not peace.

In Vietnam, the majority of the fighting occured between US forces and the NVA, their planning and tactics affected by completely different mentalities. They were indeed two different peoples fighting against each other. Neither side were interested in negotiations.

The US in that time period only understood violence as a means to defeating communists. It did not see how to take away the support, to cut off the flow of recruits and supplies from sympathetic people. The only way it saw how to do that was to adopt the 'kill them all' approach. Unsurprisingly, it only hardened the people, turned support away from the US.

The US acted like a villain, the dictator who crushed enemies real and imagined with an iron hand. And when it was treated as such, it had the termity to act surprised and offended.

Israel here, looking at its actions and announcements by their leaders, are the same. They are treating the entire Lebanese population as an enemy. Furthermore, the statements of their UN embassador, that anyone in South Lebanon is an enemy, that all population centers should be flattened, only tells me that like the US before, they are acting exactly in the manner best engineered to harden sentiments against them.


Violence will ACHIEVE what diplomacy cannot and will often force diplomacy when war seems the only option..see the Paris peace talks and Nixons Bombing of the North..and I can list many more.
War is politics using other methods and is a continuation of diplomacy by other means .

Diplomacy on the other hand, can achieve what war cannot. War does not provide the means of peace. It only allows for diplomacy to produce a peace.

War alone will never bring peace. It is something I do not expect the IDF to ever understand.


The country of Israel fights for its survival..hezbollah and hamas do not WANT to live with Israel ...they want to destroy it .

You must get past that very MAJOR point. Until they are forced to accept that armed conflict will not achieve their goal ..they will fight and they will kill .

I have no problems understanding that Hezbollah and Hamas cannot tolerate Israel.

I really feel like a broken record, repeating these points over and over again without serious consideration being taken by you. Attack their will to fight, take away the means which they can recruit others. Hezbollah and Hamas only exist because hatred allows them to gain recruits.

Hezbollah/Hamas propoganda, Israeli collective punishments, these are what gives strength to the terrorists groups, support to their cause.

How to defeat this? Propoganda, cooperation with the governments, the truth. If Israel truly wants peace for all and a chance for prosperity, it would not do as it has done. It would work with the Lebanese government to drive out Hezbollah.


You must have a united front against terrorism and those that support it or any efforts are doomed to failure in the long run. Some nut will always cliam to be gods representative on earth and tell the dowtrodden he will lead them to the promised land ...so get rid of the downtrodden...make them usefull productive FREE and thriving...

Israel, isn't interested in a united front. It is, as the saying goes, 'going it alone'.


But until that happens force MUST be met with greater and overwhelming force ..thats what they respect and fear...weakness they thrive on and grow with .

Tell me, how many followers of Pat Robertson are willing to take up arms and conduct war against the nations he rails against? How many of Fred Phelps followers wage war against gays and lesbians?

It is because people see them for what they are. Fear mongers who only understand hatred. But should something happen that they can twist to use to their own agenda occur, that hatred will grow and forment, bringing more people to their cause.

How many followers would the radicals have, if they had no cause for that hate? How many people would volunteer themselves and their children for a martyrs cause when the very people this cause fights against is building schools and housing in their neighborhood for them?

Take away their will to fight, not their lives.


Face it the west is weak ...we save the whales ..they decapitate prisoners and eat the whales..we belive in free speech they belive in covering up their women and only speaking about the RIGHT things as determined by the Mullah in charge...its a clash of cultures and we are woefully unprepared to do whats needed against a hard and unrelentinf fanaticaly driven enemy that see's us ..the west ..as decendent spawn of satan that needs to be cleansed from the earth and lambs ripe for slaughter .

I will agree that the West is weak, but not for the reasons you mention. It is weak because it does not have the will, nor the understanding that to defeat hate mongers, to end the power of those who would oppress, is not by more oppression and violence. Violence is power, but power alone will achieve nothing. It is the will to see beyond that violence, the vision to plan beyond the next bombing run, armored thrust, that will defeat them.

It is very easy to fall into the kind of thinking that BogMarsh posseses. All Arabs are scum. All Arabs should die. There is no such thing as a good Arab. These are the things that the hate mongers want.

But is every single one of them like that? Is every person of Islamic religion a terrorist? If one were to apply some rational thinking, it is easy to see how false that is. So why are those from that troubled region turn to terrorism? Can it be argued that it is the culture? Again, that is not the case, unless one is willing to lose the distinction between civilian and terrorist. So what causes it?

As far as I can see, it is because of the environment that they are in. Not only are there a great deal more hate formentors, but at the same time, injustices can be blamed on the West. Alone this would be insufficient, but the actions of the West in the Middle East cannot be ignored entirely.

It is this perception of injustice that gives the hate mongers their power. Killing them would do nothing but make martyrs of them.

This is why I always recommend killing the hatred, taking away their will to fight. Expose the hate mongers for the hypocrites they are, and no one will listen to them.


What can be more different than the Taliban and a meeting of the government in Paris ?

One is a single now deposed government while the other is a meeting of governments? :p