NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1090180191546
http://www.sodomylaws.org/usa/usa.htm

So USA has passed laws against sex toys in Alabama and Georgia. Sodomy Laws exist in 12 or so of the 50 states of the USA. We have school boards adopting ID in their science syllabus, and lobbying for prayer in school, the ten commandments are making appearances in the Courthouse, God features on the national currency, Laws are vetoed on religious grounds, and the president is a devout new-born 'freaky' type christian and beleives that god "speaks through him". When is

More and more USA is reminding me of my girlfiends moderate muslim home of Malaysia. Malaysia is doing away with some of it's more conservative laws and slowly coasting to a moderate islamic legislature stop. On the other hand you have USA, steeped in libertarian tradition doing away with it's famous freedoms in favour of some moderate christian restrictions upon what was once everyone's own business. If Malaysia is recognised as a moderate islamic state, when will USA be recognised (by itself and others) as a moderate Christian state?

God bless.

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1090180191546
http://www.sodomylaws.org/usa/usa.htm

So USA has passed laws against sex toys in Alabama and Georgia. Sodomy Laws exist in 12 or so of the 50 states of the USA. We have school boards adopting ID in their science syllabus, and lobbying for prayer in school, the ten commandments are making appearances in the Courthouse, God features on the national currency, Laws are vetoed on religious grounds, and the president is a devout new-born 'freaky' type christian and beleives that god "speaks through him". When is

More and more USA is reminding me of my girlfiends moderate muslim home of Malaysia. Malaysia is doing away with some of it's more conservative laws and slowly coasting to a moderate islamic legislature stop. On the other hand you have USA, steeped in libertarian tradition doing away with it's famous freedoms in favour of some moderate christian restrictions upon what was once everyone's own business. If Malaysia is recognised as a moderate islamic state, when will USA be recognised (by itself and others) as a moderate Christian state?

God bless.
Um you may want to note that we are getting RID of the sodomy laws rather then adding them as you imply Minnesota had some on the books till about 7 years ago

yes. Its a shame really

Only nominally.

Um you may want to note that we are getting RID of the sodomy laws rather then adding them as you imply Minnesota had some on the books till about 7 years ago
Maybe Amnesty international can give you a hand with that, if they can spare some time from continental Africa and the middle east. ;)

Leaders of the Free world! *jab* *punch* *duck*

Can anyone else also spot the hypocrisy in the fact that that Alabama, and Georgia are rabidly pro-gun states. The same people who rave about the right to own a gun, now denounce the right to own a different sort of gun, a 'love gun'. Double standards?

I couldn't help chuckling to myself, though, when I recalled a Republican poster revealing that when he heard that in Eastwestville (or some county of some state) he became posessed with the burning desire to travel to the said location, pull out a glock (or some gun) and walk down the main street. Immediately I wonder would he interested in popping over to Alabama to whip out a dildo in it's capital and walk defiantly down the main street?

Define what you mean by "christian nation". If you mean a majority of Americans believe in Christianity, then yes. Is it run on religious grounds? Quite possibly. We in the UK outwardly seem to have a greater separation of religion and state when we have an established religion which is awarded seats in Parliament. Butb then, that's just specualtion.

Define what you mean by "christian nation". If you mean a majority of Americans believe in Christianity, then yes. Is it run on religious grounds? Quite possibly. We in the UK outwardly seem to have a greater separation of religion and state when we have an established religion which is awarded seats in Parliament. Butb then, that's just specualtion.
Well, it's true. And it's precisely because the state accepts it that it becomes somewhat unappealing to the average Mark English. The notion in America that it is officially untouched by Government combined with the typical sentiment of fear of their elected officials is probably part of why it's more politically powerful there than here.

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1090180191546
http://www.sodomylaws.org/usa/usa.htm

So USA has passed laws against sex toys in Alabama and Georgia. Sodomy Laws exist in 12 or so of the 50 states of the USA. We have school boards adopting ID in their science syllabus, and lobbying for prayer in school, the ten commandments are making appearances in the Courthouse, God features on the national currency, Laws are vetoed on religious grounds, and the president is a devout new-born 'freaky' type christian and beleives that god "speaks through him". When is

More and more USA is reminding me of my girlfiends moderate muslim home of Malaysia. Malaysia is doing away with some of it's more conservative laws and slowly coasting to a moderate islamic legislature stop. On the other hand you have USA, steeped in libertarian tradition doing away with it's famous freedoms in favour of some moderate christian restrictions upon what was once everyone's own business. If Malaysia is recognised as a moderate islamic state, when will USA be recognised (by itself and others) as a moderate Christian state?

God bless.

I'm going to move to Canada the first chance I get. I hear it's nicer up there.

:confused: that could very well change a little bit with a different president
I'm not saying that I want it to change

It could be much worse. Much much worse.

And you're down to only six states that prohibit adultery (South Carolina's was struck down a couple of weeks ago).

The US didn't start out as a Christian state. The founders weren't even Christians, for the most part. I wonder what happened.

well I would have to say that it is a Christian nation not a bad thing at all it just mean there are more Christians in the U.S

of course if there are more extreme Christians voting and such should democracy work America will become a more and more a religious state but then again its your fault really for not voting (seeing as how white Christian middle class make up the majority of voters in the U.S)

seeing as how white Christian middle class make up the majority of voters in the U.S

Sounds like the Republican will win the next few elections.

And you're down to only six states that prohibit adultery (South Carolina's was struck down a couple of weeks ago).

The US didn't start out as a Christian state. The founders weren't even Christians, for the most part. I wonder what happened.
It's the nature of the christian religion. It's like a cancer. Islam too. Just these two. It starts of small restrained and subtle. Inoffensive types who seem just like every other person. It may be so unremarkable hat you may not even notice it. Then it grows, and grows. Gradually a sickness of bigotry befalls the community. Still most will not know the reason why, and/or ignore the symptoms of the rapidly spreading cancer of christianity. Finally, The christianity will spread to all sectors of society, bending each to their purpose. At this stage most have noticed the now more pronounced and pushy christians, who are changing fundamental aspects of daily life to suit their purposed. By now, it is far too late to do anything. The cancer has spread too far. Any attempt to eradicate it spreads it further. Inevitably, the cancer will seize and completely dominate society, and society will die a slow and agonising death.
:(

well I would have to say that it is a Christian nation not a bad thing at all it just mean there are more Christians in the U.S

of course if there are more extreme Christians voting and such should democracy work America will become a more and more a religious state but then again its your fault really for not voting (seeing as how white Christian middle class make up the majority of voters in the U.S)
Wouldn't that make voting seem pointless? Facing a clear majority.

Can't be a Christian nation. Christ taught peace and non-violence.

Religious people should be banned from holding public office. Possibly government jobs in general.

Well statistically yes it is and in the laws it is but you are forgetting one important aspect







THE RISE OF THE FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER!!

Religious people should be banned from holding public office. Possibly government jobs in general.
Even jobs in general. And private property. In fact we should round up all of the Christians and muslims and put them in camps to concentrate their numbers, what shall we call them...Concentration camps! Then we should tell them that they have to fight to the death, and that the victor will be freed as the true religion. Once they have had it out, we take the ragged survivors and execute them for stupidity (not attempting to co-operate with the muslms to escape the camps). If that want to beleive in fairy tales, let the fairy tales save them. That'll learn 'em. Where's your god now? :mp5: hehehehha

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1090180191546
http://www.sodomylaws.org/usa/usa.htm

So USA has passed laws against sex toys in Alabama and Georgia. Sodomy Laws exist in 12 or so of the 50 states of the USA. We have school boards adopting ID in their science syllabus, and lobbying for prayer in school, the ten commandments are making appearances in the Courthouse, God features on the national currency, Laws are vetoed on religious grounds, and the president is a devout new-born 'freaky' type christian and beleives that god "speaks through him". When is

More and more USA is reminding me of my girlfiends moderate muslim home of Malaysia. Malaysia is doing away with some of it's more conservative laws and slowly coasting to a moderate islamic legislature stop. On the other hand you have USA, steeped in libertarian tradition doing away with it's famous freedoms in favour of some moderate christian restrictions upon what was once everyone's own business. If Malaysia is recognised as a moderate islamic state, when will USA be recognised (by itself and others) as a moderate Christian state?

God bless.

The American "christian" thing has always been weird to me. And it's seems to be getting bigger.
I sure hope the world won't have to deal with a big theocracy with it's nuclear rockets and it's state-of-the-art military crap. But that's seems to be where they're headed. And it's not like they are being dragged along kicking and screaming either...They voted for this crap. Twice.
Americans scare me.

The American "christian" thing has always been weird to me. And it's seems to be getting bigger.
I sure hope the world won't have to deal with a big theocracy with it's nuclear rockets and it's state-of-the-art military crap. But that's seems to be where they're headed. And it's not like they are being dragged along kicking and screaming either...They voted for this crap. Twice.
Americans scare me.
Holy shit! I didn't even consider that. USA goes religious fascist state on us. But still retains the nukes the whole time. Then we have a new era of religious masters. :mad:

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1090180191546
http://www.sodomylaws.org/usa/usa.htm

So USA has passed laws against sex toys in Alabama and Georgia. Sodomy Laws exist in 12 or so of the 50 states of the USA. We have school boards adopting ID in their science syllabus, and lobbying for prayer in school, the ten commandments are making appearances in the Courthouse, God features on the national currency, Laws are vetoed on religious grounds, and the president is a devout new-born 'freaky' type christian and beleives that god "speaks through him". When is

More and more USA is reminding me of my girlfiends moderate muslim home of Malaysia. Malaysia is doing away with some of it's more conservative laws and slowly coasting to a moderate islamic legislature stop. On the other hand you have USA, steeped in libertarian tradition doing away with it's famous freedoms in favour of some moderate christian restrictions upon what was once everyone's own business. If Malaysia is recognised as a moderate islamic state, when will USA be recognised (by itself and others) as a moderate Christian state?

God bless.
No, we are not a Christian nation, as that would mean that all Christians have equal power in our nation. We our a Protestant nation.

It sucks.

No, we are not a Christian nation, as that would mean that all Christians have equal power in our nation. We our a Protestant nation.

It sucks.
How much is the USA looking like the places it f*cks up. In the middle east we have Islamic governments and disparities between sunnis and shiites. In USA you have a Christian government and disparities between Catholics and Protestants.

The American "christian" thing has always been weird to me. And it's seems to be getting bigger.
I sure hope the world won't have to deal with a big theocracy with it's nuclear rockets and it's state-of-the-art military crap. But that's seems to be where they're headed. And it's not like they are being dragged along kicking and screaming either...They voted for this crap. Twice.
Americans scare me.

It reminds me of the song "Sheep" for some reason...

Holy shit! I didn't even consider that. USA goes religious fascist state on us. But still retains the nukes the whole time. Then we have a new era of religious masters. :mad:

And new dark-ages... But hopefully they'll come to their senses before it comes to that.

It's the nature of the christian religion. It's like a cancer. Islam too. Just these two. It starts of small restrained and subtle. Inoffensive types who seem just like every other person. It may be so unremarkable hat you may not even notice it. Then it grows, and grows. Gradually a sickness of bigotry befalls the community. Still most will not know the reason why, and/or ignore the symptoms of the rapidly spreading cancer of christianity. Finally, The christianity will spread to all sectors of society, bending each to their purpose. At this stage most have noticed the now more pronounced and pushy christians, who are changing fundamental aspects of daily life to suit their purposed. By now, it is far too late to do anything. The cancer has spread too far. Any attempt to eradicate it spreads it further. Inevitably, the cancer will seize and completely dominate society, and society will die a slow and agonising death.
:(


It makes me sad that you have such low opinions of us :(

You do realise that bigot psycho Christians like Fred Phelps & Co. are a quite small minority of Christianity, and if a moderate President is elected, I doubt things like the recent veto will continue.

Wouldn't that make voting seem pointless? Facing a clear majority.
As a person who's voted in one of those states voting against the Religious Right is Pointless. They always win. That is until their entire 60+ fanbase drops dead in 20 years. But that's okay they have their Religous Godfearing (Brainwashed) College age students to pick up the slack then.

(I went down to a conservative College in Georgia in 2004, all the Students were wearing Bush\Cheney buttons and all had dopy looks in their eyes. ****ing scary. I bet if I had stood in the middle of the school and Shouted "Bush Sucks" they would have killed me.)

(Whenever someone says their "God Fearing" I lose respect, I thought god was supposed to be loving, not someone you have to run from, that sounds like a creation of certain religous extremists to keep people in line)

I bet they'd kill me if I shouted "I'm bi, bitch!"

And new dark-ages... But hopefully they'll come to their senses before it comes to that.
I doubt it. "Hey look guys, even though we understand the one supreme truth that everyone must know lest they go to hell, and our power is waning, why don't we do away with these nukes and let everyone be"

Holy shit! I didn't even consider that. USA goes religious fascist state on us. But still retains the nukes the whole time. Then we have a new era of religious masters. :mad:
Oh so Iran is actually modeling itself after us! Except they should have done it the other way around like we are, get nukes THEN turn in to Religious Extremists!

How much is the USA looking like the places it f*cks up. In the middle east we have Islamic governments and disparities between sunnis and shiites. In USA you have a Christian government and disparities between Catholics and Protestants.
Actually one of the things that I find interesting is that in America, Christians seem to put up a unified public front, particularly in the political realm.

It's amazing how little sectarian division there is between Catholics and Protestants. Especially considering that the Vatican opposes many Republican policies, such as war, elimination of welfare and business regulations, and the death penalty.

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1090180191546
http://www.sodomylaws.org/usa/usa.htm

So USA has passed laws against sex toys in Alabama and Georgia. Sodomy Laws exist in 12 or so of the 50 states of the USA. We have school boards adopting ID in their science syllabus, and lobbying for prayer in school, the ten commandments are making appearances in the Courthouse, God features on the national currency, Laws are vetoed on religious grounds, and the president is a devout new-born 'freaky' type christian and beleives that god "speaks through him". When is

Another thing that mystifies me about American Christians is why they're so obsessed with sex. They put sexual morality at the core of their religion, which is erroneous IMO.

I doubt it. "Hey look guys, even though we understand the one supreme truth that everyone must know lest they go to hell, and our power is waning, why don't we do away with these nukes and let everyone be"

That's a scary thought!
But I meant they might still change their politics and their selection of leaders...Before they go Iranian on us.

When you see how this country is being stianed by Satan's evil mexican minions, there's only one man that can save us.

http://www.mintruth.com/images/pat_robertson_is_the_devil.jpg

Pat Robertson for president!

That's a scary thought!
But I meant they might still change their politics and their selection of leaders...Before they go Iranian on us.
Even if they go leftist, pluralist paradise on us, there doesn't seem to be a way of reversing the spread of fundie jesus lovin' in that country. Either way it will still a paternalistic religious power with thousands of nukes. I just don't like it. No matter how 'nice' they are.

What's wrong with sex toys? Don't we have freedom of masturbation?

When you see how this country is being stianed by Satan's evil mexican minions, there's only one man that can save us.

http://www.mintruth.com/images/pat_robertson_is_the_devil.jpg

Pat Robertson for president!
I can feel the Conservative-American-Radiation emanating from his form. I can't shake this image of him wearing a loincloth and a crown of thorns.

Even if they go leftist, pluralist paradise on us, there doesn't seem to be a way of reversing the spread of fundie jesus lovin' in that country. Either way it will still a paternalistic religious power with thousands of nukes. I just don't like it. No matter how 'nice' they are.

I agree.
And it can be argued that they've allready started their crusade on the heathen "moors".

I agree.
And it can be argued that they've allready started their crusade on the heathen "moors".
Very slowly the global 'war on terror' will be extrapolated into a global 'war on immorality'.

Predominantly Christian, yes.

What's wrong with sex toys? Don't we have freedom of masturbation?

Not for long. BWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA- *coughcough*

When you see how this country is being stianed by Satan's evil mexican minions, there's only one man that can save us.

http://www.mintruth.com/images/pat_robertson_is_the_devil.jpg

Pat Robertson for president!of Iran

hehehe for subtle quote editing

The US isn't a Christian nation. Predominantly Christian, but its laws and political structure are not intended to be determined according to religious beliefs.

There's a correction I need to make:

Sodomy laws nationwide were actually struck down in 2003 by the Supreme Court; that was a move away from religiously-motivated law and a victory for the larger concept of personal liberty within the privacy of one's own home. It's especially remakrable since those same laws were in place for up to a century or more prior to their overturn in 2003. A lot of the sex-toy laws are facing a similar fate.

Very slowly the global 'war on terror' will be extrapolated into a global 'war on immorality'.

It's probably not that far fetched... I remember this forum being flooded with threads after american football fans saw a nipple on tv.

It's probably not that far fetched... I remember this forum being flooded with threads after american football fans saw a nipple on tv.

Then sooner or later, the USA will separate into different nations...

Then sooner or later, the USA will separate into different nations...

We tried that once. It didn't work out to well.

We tried that once. It didn't work out to well.

Yeah, that's true. Also, people just aren't pissed off enough or divided enough to justify any kind of civil war.

There's always this...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/28/New_map_WEB.jpg

There's always this...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/28/New_map_WEB.jpg

hehe

The U.S. is a Christian nation:
79% are Christians
1% are Jews
all others less than 1%

There's always this...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/28/New_map_WEB.jpg

I always knew Michigan was mostly Canadian.

The U.S. is a Christian nation:
79% are Christians
1% are Jews
all others less than 1%

By the same method the U.S. is also and ignorant nation...actually, that sounds about right. I guess you made a logical post for once Barry.

I always knew Michigan was mostly Canadian.

Shush, you.

Shush, you.

Oh come on. Look in a bunch of change and tell me there's no Canadian coins in there. People in Detroit actually care about hockey; moreover, Detroit is good at hockey!

The U.S. is a Christian nation:
79% are Christians
1% are Jews
all others less than 1%

No.

America is a constitutionally secular nation with a population that is majority christian. That is a very specific and fundamental difference, and if you can't see how they are different, I'm not going to waste time trying to explain it

Oh come on. Look in a bunch of change and tell me there's no Canadian coins in there. People in Detroit actually care about hockey; moreover, Detroit is good at hockey!

We're...different.

And I do so love the Windsor Ballet...:)

There's always this...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/28/New_map_WEB.jpg


The map was updated recently.


http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/3558/newnewmapdp7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

The map was updated recently.
http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/3558/newnewmapdp7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Hah, now we've got Alberta. Without oil, the USC is meaningless!

Hah, now we've got Alberta. Without oil, the USC is meaningless!

As if the oil there is any use. Just like a Jesuslandian.

As if the oil there is any use. Just like a Jesuslandian.

We've got the heavy-sulfur refineries in Texas, so we're set. We'll just nuke the tarsands and slap up a bunch of refineries and pipelines on the California-Nevada border.

Also, you forget: Since when has Jesusland given a shit about the environment?

Americans do not have a fundamental right to sexual privacy, a 2-1 decision of the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals said on Wednesday.

The split panel upheld an Alabama law -- nearly identical to one in Georgia -- that made the sale of sex toys a crime punishable by up to a year in prison.
I am ashamed that such ignorant idiocy is taking place in my home state. What difference does it make? Who cares if people use sex toys? It doesn't affect anything or anyone in any way! I just can't understand how they justify this... use sex toys, and you get thrown in jail. For a year. On what grounds?!

Such nonsense. Shameful, shameful nonsense.

"[I]f we today craft a new fundamental right by which to invalidate the law, we would be bound to give that right full force and effect in all future cases -- including, for example, those involving adult incest, prostitution, obscenity, and the like."
Jesus Christ.

(I hope the Alabama courts don't elect to imprision me for that possibly obscene remark.)

In dissent, Barkett said Birch's analysis was in conflict with Lawrence. Quoting Justice Anthony M. Kennedy's majority decision in Lawrence, Barkett wrote, "Our obligation is to define the liberty of all, not to mandate our own moral code."
Amen.

Hmmm.... We've got Microsoft. Hope you didn't want a computer network. And we have Detroit, that oil's not going to do you much good without cars. And don't worry about what we'll use for fuel, we'll make ethanol from the wheat fields in Manitoba and Saskatchewan. And you may have access to the Great Lakes, but we have the St. Lawrence Seaway, so you're trapped there. :p :D

It starts of small restrained and subtle. Inoffensive types who seem just like every other person. It may be so unremarkable hat you may not even notice it. Then it grows, and grows. Gradually a sickness of bigotry befalls the community. Still most will not know the reason why, and/or ignore the symptoms of the rapidly spreading cancer of christianity. Finally, The christianity will spread to all sectors of society, bending each to their purpose. At this stage most have noticed the now more pronounced and pushy christians, who are changing fundamental aspects of daily life to suit their purposed. By now, it is far too late to do anything. The cancer has spread too far. Any attempt to eradicate it spreads it further. Inevitably, the cancer will seize and completely dominate society, and society will die a slow and agonising death.Is this rethoric true when put forth by religious people & Christianity is replaced with secular society (or a religion, for that matter)?

Because that is exactly what the ones you're arguing against are saying.

Hmmm.... We've got Microsoft. Hope you didn't want a computer network. And we have Detroit, that oil's not going to do you much good without cars. And don't worry about what we'll use for fuel, we'll make ethanol from the wheat fields in Manitoba and Saskatchewan. And you may have access to the Great Lakes, but we have the St. Lawrence Seaway, so you're trapped there. :p :D

The southern states have lots of good deepwater ports.

Will the Borders of USC be open? Will I need a passport to move there? Can I renounce my Citizenship to Jesusland? I didn't vote for it.

Hmmm.... We've got Microsoft. Hope you didn't want a computer network. And we have Detroit, that oil's not going to do you much good without cars. And don't worry about what we'll use for fuel, we'll make ethanol from the wheat fields in Manitoba and Saskatchewan. And you may have access to the Great Lakes, but we have the St. Lawrence Seaway, so you're trapped there. :p :D

You have Detroit, but we've got the Japanese automakers. We've also got the cornfields in Ohio and Iowa, the wheat in Kansas and Nebraska, and the animal farms, fruit orchards, and vegetable farms of the South and Pennsylvania. We've got all of the Southern ports+the Mississippi and Ohio rivers. Plus, almost all of the rail lines are in Jesusland...

Wait a minute, I just realized that if the US became Jesusland, I'd be GTFOASAP...there's no way in hell I would stay in Iran 2.

Will the Borders of USC be open? Will I need a passport to move there? Can I renounce my Citizenship to Jesusland? I didn't vote for it.

Nobody votes in a theocracy...

I think you'll be able to get in. Jesusland will be too busy ethnically cleansing the Catholic (:eek:) Hispanic (omg) Immigrants (*faints*) to patrol the USC border or the Sierra Nevadas.

The U.S. is a Christian nation:
79% are Christians
1% are Jews
all others less than 1%
Woah care to back those stats up that comes no where near anything I have seen in any real study.

Woah care to back those stats up that comes no where near anything I have seen in any real study.

those look like very weird stats to me also

GreaterPacificNations, you ought to read your own sources. The one concerning sodomy laws actually mentioned a Supreme Court ruling, Lawrence v. Texas, which declared that sodomy laws are unconstitutional and therefore null and void.

those look like very weird stats to me also

http://wikitravel.org/en/United_States_of_America#Culture

i looked it up because i doubted those numbers as well (id been hearing 86% Christian). but anyway, his numbers are pretty accurate.

Woah care to back those stats up that comes no where near anything I have seen in any real study.

What''s weird about those? There's like, 14 million Jews left.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_States#Religious_affiliation

The U.S. is a christian nation. 79% of us are Christians and 1% are Jews. 1% are other religions combined. 19% are either in flux or among the 4% of Americans who do not believe in God. Clearly, Christ carries the day in America. More Americans believe in the virgin birth of Christ than believe that humans evolved from an earlier species.

The U.S. is a christian nation. 79% of us are Christians and 1% are Jews. 1% are other religions combined. 19% are either in flux or among the 4% of Americans who do not believe in God. Clearly, Christ carries the day in America. More Americans believe in the virgin birth of Christ than believe that humans evolved from an earlier species.

Are you just a computer program that makes phrases and recycles them in these random stand-alone posts?

Are you just a computer program that makes phrases and recycles them in these random stand-alone posts?

Well, lets see, there is nothing else to say on this matter. Is the U.S. a Christian nation? That is not even poll worthy. It is a "duh" type question that can only be answered with statistics. What else is there to say? Certainly nothing to respond to me on your part.

Well, lets see, there is nothing else to say on this matter. Is the U.S. a Christian nation? That is not even poll worthy. It is a "duh" type question that can only be answered with statistics. What else is there to say? Certainly nothing to respond to me on your part.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11444179&postcount=55

"No.

America is a constitutionally secular nation with a population that is majority christian. That is a very specific and fundamental difference, and if you can't see how they are different, I'm not going to waste time trying to explain it"

that is a false premise. You are confusing the government with a people. Sure, you can say the government is non-religious. But America is a nation of Christians. Just because the government is non-religiously biased does not mean the nation is. That is like saying that "America does not watch television" because the Constitution ( a document) cannot watch TV.

"No.

America is a constitutionally secular nation with a population that is majority christian. That is a very specific and fundamental difference, and if you can't see how they are different, I'm not going to waste time trying to explain it"

that is a false premise. You are confusing the government with a people. Sure, you can say the government is non-religious. But America is a nation of Christians. Just because the government is non-religiously biased does not mean the nation is. That is like saying that "America does not watch television" because the Constitution ( a document) cannot watch TV.

Isn't the nation defined by the government?

"No.

America is a constitutionally secular nation with a population that is majority christian. That is a very specific and fundamental difference, and if you can't see how they are different, I'm not going to waste time trying to explain it"

that is a false premise. You are confusing the government with a people. Sure, you can say the government is non-religious. But America is a nation of Christians. Just because the government is non-religiously biased does not mean the nation is. That is like saying that "America does not watch television" because the Constitution ( a document) cannot watch TV.
Which in that logic is like saying "The government did hold trials for every prisoner thats being detained" because the Constitution (a document), The Geneva Conventions (a document), and several other things (documents) cannot do otherwise.

Isn't the nation defined by the government?

No, not at all. Our culture, values and beliefs, heritage, and religous practices are all very much seperate from the government. This is not you know " mother soviet Russia where culture chooses you", hardly, the government provides security, moral guidence sometimes, and social services of many kinds...but it does not determine our culture and heritage including our religion. Christianity was around in America far before the Constitution was. America has been a Christian nation from the start. Don't make me start throwing out figures again.

Which in that logic is like saying "The government did hold trials for every prisoner thats being detained" because the Constitution (a document), The Geneva Conventions (a document), and several other things (documents) cannot do otherwise.

You are not making sense at all. Um, yeah, our religious practices are seperate from our government. We are a nation of Christians. America is a Christian nation. All of this nonsense about pretend trials does not fit into..anything..

No, not at all. Our culture, values and beliefs, heritage, and religous practices are all very much seperate from the government. This is not you know " mother soviet Russia where culture chooses you", hardly, the government provides security, moral guidence sometimes, and social services of many kinds...but it does not determine our culture and heritage including our religion. Christianity was around in America far before the Constitution was. America has been a Christian nation from the start. Don't make me start throwing out figures again.

No, I mean, without the government, it's not a nation at all. It's the Unites States of America. That 'United States' part is from the government.

No, I mean, without the government, it's not a nation at all. It's the Unites States of America. That 'United States' part is from the government.

You are not following me. The government is in place. It is secular in theory. Yet America is a Christian nation because of the number (79%) of people who are Christians within its borders. How would your argument work here:

Thread topic: America is a nation of soda drinkers
Me: well, the vast majority of Americans like a cool soda on a hot day
you: there is nothing in the Constitution or Government structure that demands or takes away from the drinking of soda

You are not following me. The government is in place. It is secular in theory. Yet America is a Christian nation because of the number (79%) of people who are Christians within its borders. How would your argument work here:

Thread topic: America is a nation of soda drinkers
Me: well, the vast majority of Americans like a cool soda on a hot day
you: there is nothing in the Constitution or Government structure that demands or takes away from the drinking of soda

America's people are Christian. The nation is the government.

America's people are Christian.





The nation is the government.

Both sentences are correct.

Time for bed. God bless.

My brain hurts from reading this confusing stuff...

The U.S. is a christian nation. 79% of us are Christians and 1% are Jews. 1% are other religions combined. 19% are either in flux or among the 4% of Americans who do not believe in God. Clearly, Christ carries the day in America. More Americans believe in the virgin birth of Christ than believe that humans evolved from an earlier species.

I'd laugh if I didn't know you guys had bloodlust and nukes.
If I was hearing about Americans for the first time, I'd think they were made up.

Yes, and may that never change.

Atheism: the fine art of making Islam look good...

The U.S. is a christian nation. 79% of us are Christians and 1% are Jews. 1% are other religions combined. 19% are either in flux or among the 4% of Americans who do not believe in God. Clearly, Christ carries the day in America. More Americans believe in the virgin birth of Christ than believe that humans evolved from an earlier species.

Be a sport and change that to the 15% that don't. :) (US Census is your friend)

Be a sport and change that to the 15% that don't. :) (US Census is your friend)


The final result: 79 AYE, 15 NAY.


The Ayes have it.

Yes, and may that never change.

Atheism: the fine art of making Islam look good...

Christian Fundementalism: The fine art of making Atheism look good.

The final result: 79 AYE, 15 NAY.


The Ayes have it.

Yeah, but I'm just pedantic.

Christian Fundementalism: The fine art of making Atheism look good.
Nothing makes atheism look good. It is the most dangerous of all the faiths; Godless, with a single commandment of total arrogance.

Yeah, but I'm just pedantic.


Fine. Now, please stand still while we implement the BOHICA-amendment. ;)

Nothing makes atheism look good. It is the most dangerous of all the faiths; Godless, with a single commandment of total arrogance.

Umm...it's not a faith at all, with no commandments to speak of. Godless is an adjective, describing being without a God. What does that have to do with Atheism being "the most dangerous of all the faiths"?

Umm...it's not a faith at all, with no commandments to speak of. Godless is an adjective, describing being without a God. What does that have to do with Atheism being "the most dangerous of all the faiths"?
Atheism is a faith.

Faith: Strong or unshakeable belief in something, esp. without proof or evidence.

Atheism is the strong or unshakeable belief that you know it all, and that there is no God. This also brings us on to the Atheist Commandment of Arrogance; 'Thou Shall Know it All And Ridicule Those Who Think Otherwise.'

Atheism is a faith.

Faith: Strong or unshakeable belief in something, esp. without proof or evidence.

Atheism is the strong or unshakeable belief that you know it all, and that there is no God. This also brings us on to the Atheist Commandment of Arrogance; 'Thou Shall Know it All And Ridicule Those Who Think Otherwise.'

Uh, no. You've been listening to too many Christians describe Atheism, possibly ones who claim to have converted from Atheism. Atheism is anything and everything not Theism.

Uh, no. You've been listening to too many Christians describe Atheism, possibly ones who claim to have converted from Atheism. Atheism is anything and everything not Theism.
Atheism: rejection of belief in God or gods.

Note the fact that I said 'atheists' and not 'agnostics'. I have no problem with people who say that they are uncertain or that they do not believe, but realise that they cannot completely dismiss something; atheism, however, requires total certainty that you do know it all. It is as much of a faith as any religion, and the most dangerous of all because it releases its believers from any sense of responsibility.

Uh, no. You've been listening to too many Christians describe Atheism, possibly ones who claim to have converted from Atheism. Atheism is anything and everything not Theism.


In that case,
it is 85 Ayes
and 15 nays,
hurrah for the Ayes,
and to the nays
the Bye-byes.

Atheism is a faith.

Faith: Strong or unshakeable belief in something, esp. without proof or evidence.

Atheism is the strong or unshakeable belief that you know it all, and that there is no God. This also brings us on to the Atheist Commandment of Arrogance; 'Thou Shall Know it All And Ridicule Those Who Think Otherwise.'

Actually, it's a matter of the evidence we have. It's nothing to do with faith. The evidence indicates that there is no god. Hence atheism is the logical conclusion.

Actually, it's a matter of the evidence we have. It's nothing to do with faith. The evidence indicates that there is no god. Hence atheism is the logical conclusion.
There is no evidence that there is no God. The most you can offer is the fact you have not found solid evidence of God.

You are relying on a negative to prove your faith. 'I cannot see, therefore I do not believe, therefore I am right'.

Atheism: rejection of belief in God or gods.

Note the fact that I said 'atheists' and not 'agnostics'. I have no problem with people who say that they are uncertain or that they do not believe, but realise that they cannot completely dismiss something; atheism, however, requires total certainty that you do know it all. It is as much of a faith as any religion, and the most dangerous of all because it releases its believers from any sense of responsibility.

Whereas many religions are interpreted as encouraging their members to commit atrocities, which is hardly comparable to simply releasing their members from the responsibilites of those atrocities. God can be completely dismissed when there is no evidence. Perhaps one day evidence will appear, but I tend to believe something of which there is no evidence for is nonexistent. If someone told me they had a pet purple unicorn, despite the lack of evidence to the contrary I would be inclined to believe the contrary.

There is no evidence that there is no God. The most you can offer is the fact you have not found solid evidence of God.

You are relying on a negative to prove your faith. 'I cannot see, therefore I do not believe, therefore I am right'.

There is a lot of evidence, although interpreted differently by theists and atheists, that there is certainly not a benevolent or all-powerful god, at least.

There is no evidence that there is no God. The most you can offer is the fact you have not found solid evidence of God.

You are relying on a negative to prove your faith. 'I cannot see, therefore I do not believe, therefore I am right'.

So we should assume all paperback novels are true-stories untill scientists verify that they aren't?

Evidence for there being a god: An old book says there is.

Sorry, that just isn't enough.

This old book has also been proven wrong many times. And it makes countless references to mythological monsters, ghosts, zombies...etc. Which hardly makes it a credible source.

it already is, and has been for like a year now. and thats a shame.

There is a lot of evidence, although interpreted differently by theists and atheists, that there is certainly not a benevolent or all-powerful god, at least.
Indeed, I couldn't have put it better myself. There is evidence which atheists interpret as they wish to 'disprove' God.

I can respect someone who can look at everything and say 'I don't believe this, but I'm not so arrogant as to dismiss the idea'. I have no respect for someone who says 'I don't believe this, therefore I am right'.

So we should assume all paperback novels are true-stories untill scientists verify that they aren't?

Evidence for there being a god: An old book says there is.

Sorry, that just isn't enough.

DECISION That the nation shall be theistic: 85 aye, 15 nay.

Atheism: rejection of belief in God or gods.

*Provided by the Big Book of Christian Definitions

DECISION That the nation shall be theistic: 85 aye, 15 nay.

What are you talking about and is it at all worthwhile for us to read it?

So we should assume all paperback novels are true-stories untill scientists verify that they aren't?

Evidence for there being a god: An old book says there is.

Sorry, that just isn't enough.

This old book has also been proven wrong many times. And it makes countless references to mythological monsters, ghosts, zombies...etc. Which hardly makes it a credible source.
There is more evidence for God than 'an old book'. There is the belief of billions, history, personal experiences, tradition and, above all, faith. The fact that atheists see themselves as 'above' such things does not change its worth as evidence.

WTF??!! How can a government decide what I can and cannot stick up my wifes bits. Jesus never said "Thou shalt not use dildos". The use of dildo's and christian doctrine are not related.

I can't believe its true - that you can ban sex toys in the USA. What is wrong with you? Its okay to bomb the frog out of people under false pretenses, its okay to sell your weapons the world over to kill innocent women and children, but sex toys...whoooa...there bad!

I think Jesus would have loved a the odd blow up doll every now and then - he could stay and virgin and still get his rocks off!

79%, eh? Nice of him to include Catholics, Mormons, Orthodox, and others that under any other circumstances he wouldn't consider christian. :rolleyes:

DECISION That the nation shall be theistic: 85 aye, 15 nay.

Your nation, not mine. I'm still free.

*Provided by the Big Book of Christian Definitions
Actually, provided by the Collins Dictionary.

Indeed, I couldn't have put it better myself. There is evidence which atheists interpret as they wish to 'disprove' God.

I can respect someone who can look at everything and say 'I don't believe this, but I'm not so arrogant as to dismiss the idea'. I have no respect for someone who says 'I don't believe this, therefore I am right'.

Why would someone try to disprove God? There's no good reason to believe anything, what's to disprove?

There is more evidence for God than 'an old book'. There is the belief of billions, history, personal experiences, tradition and, above all, faith. The fact that atheists see themselves as 'above' such things does not change its worth as evidence.

You mean like the Yeti?

There is more evidence for God than 'an old book'. There is the belief of billions, history, personal experiences, tradition and, above all, faith. The fact that atheists see themselves as 'above' such things does not change its worth as evidence.

Just because billions of people believe something doesn't make it true. [dredges up old, tired, but still relevant examples of slavery and flat earth]
Why is faith evidence for God? Isn't the point of faith believing in something without hard evidence?

Your nation, not mine. I'm still free.


Darn - can we send the 82nd Division to Iceland?

Oh - I see.

No oil. Bush wont stand for it.


Lucky this time.

Why is faith evidence for God? Isn't the point of faith believing in something without hard evidence?

Pff. Like they have to be logically consistent or something.

Why is faith evidence for God? Isn't the point of faith believing in something without hard evidence?
You mean...like atheism?

You mean...like atheism?

No.

No.
:rolleyes:
Yes x infinity +1

:rolleyes:
Yes x infinity +1

What, you asked a question.

(Yes to an infifity of aleph-one)

You mean...like atheism?

If it is the negative view, I am inclined to believe the negative if there is no strong evidence either way. Although I believe there is very strong evidence for the nonexistence of a benevolent, omnipotent god, although you probably don't. For example, I do not believe in purple unicorns. However, they have never been disproved, so should I assume there are purple unicorns running around?

What, you asked a question.

(Yes to an infifity of aleph-one)
The description he gave was of a belief in something without hard evidence. This description perfectly fits atheism.

The description he gave was of a belief in something without hard evidence. This description perfectly fits atheism.

No, it doesn't. You've got yourself stuck behind on the common strawman version of Atheism a few trolls and nooblets here might espouse.

If it is the negative view, I am inclined to believe the negative if there is no strong evidence either way. Although I believe there is very strong evidence for the nonexistence of a benevolent, omnipotent god, although you probably don't. For example, I do not believe in purple unicorns. However, they have never been disproved, so should I assume there are purple unicorns running around?
If you were to say 'purple Unicorns have never been disproved, therefore their existence is questionable' I would respect you.

If you were to say 'purple Unicorns have never been disproved, therefore they absolutely do not exist' you would be an arrogant fool. 'Unlikely' is not the same word as 'impossible'.

No, it doesn't. You've got yourself stuck behind on the common strawman version of Atheism a few trolls and nooblets here might espouse.
Again, you come up with this 'Christian definition' argument. The definition I gave was from an English dictionary, not a Church book.

Again, you come up with this 'Christian definition' argument. The definition I gave was from an English dictionary, not a Church book.

You found "Atheism is the strong or unshakeable belief that you know it all, and that there is no God. This also brings us on to the Atheist Commandment of Arrogance; 'Thou Shall Know it All And Ridicule Those Who Think Otherwise.'" in a dictionary?

You found "Atheism is the strong or unshakeable belief that you know it all, and that there is no God. This also brings us on to the Atheist Commandment of Arrogance; 'Thou Shall Know it All And Ridicule Those Who Think Otherwise.'" in a dictionary?
That was me. Perhaps I should copyright it. :)

Your comment 'taken from the Christian dictionary' was actually referring to 'rejection of belief in God or gods'.

You found "Atheism is the strong or unshakeable belief that you know it all, and that there is no God. This also brings us on to the Atheist Commandment of Arrogance; 'Thou Shall Know it All And Ridicule Those Who Think Otherwise.'" in a dictionary?


No. By their loudmouthist observance.

Imagine it: there's some 15% who think they can outvote 85%.

Silly things.

No. By their loudmouthist observance.

Imagine it: there's some 15% who think they can outvote 85%.

Silly things.

No, seriously. What are you talking about and why should I care?

No, seriously. What are you talking about and why should I care?


No, seriously.
85% of the US population is theist - 15% is atheist.

Yet somehow, the 15% dingbats think they have a right to be 'respected' and to be considered 'respectable'.

No, seriously. What are you talking about and why should I care?


He's talking about the Fundies imposing their will on the entire nation even though they're not a majority.

No, seriously.
85% of the US population is theist - 15% is atheist.

Yet somehow, the 15% dingbats think they have a right to be 'respected' and to be considered 'respectable'.

BogMarsh, are you being sarcastic or drunkenly trolling? Sorry, but coupled with your stance on the banning of 'fuck' in the other thread makes me wonder...

No, seriously.
85% of the US population is theist - 15% is atheist.

Yet somehow, the 15% dingbats think they have a right to be 'respected' and to be considered 'respectable'.

...


......


.........


So...this same logic would apply to...say...the 13% black people?

BogMarsh, are you being sarcastic or drunkenly trolling? Sorry, but coupled with your stance on the banning of 'fuck' in the other thread makes me wonder...
BogMarsh is one of my favourite posters. He's not afraid to speak his mind, nor will he give in to the 'everything goes' morality of the world today. Plus, he has the added advantage of making me look moderate. :)

BogMarsh is one of my favourite posters. He's not afraid to speak his mind, nor will he give in to the 'everything goes' morality of the world today. Plus, he has the added advantage of making me look moderate. :)

Sounds like Atty.

BogMarsh, are you being sarcastic or drunkenly trolling? Sorry, but coupled with your stance on the banning of 'fuck' in the other thread makes me wonder...

Neither, really.

I don't see WHY we should not simply use numbers to make sure the law says what we think it should say, and remove all disambiguation.

Democracy = majority-decision. Nuffin else.

Sounds like Atty.
Who's that?

...


......


.........


So...this same logic would apply to...say...the 13% black people?


I doubt it very strongly.
Unlike some other folks, they behave respectably.

Neither, really.

I don't see WHY we should not simply use numbers to make sure the law says what we think it should say, and remove all disambiguation.

Democracy = majority-decision. Nuffin else.

That's an interesting stance, to say the least. What happens if the majority happens to decide a certain minority should be exterminated, for instance?

There is more evidence for God than 'an old book'. There is the belief of billions, history, personal experiences, tradition and, above all, faith. The fact that atheists see themselves as 'above' such things does not change its worth as evidence.

The majority thing, eh? Your logic is flawed: The majority of the world isn't christian. In fact, no religion can claim to have the majority of the earths population on its side.

Belief, personal experiences and tradition aren't evidence, at best they are proof of worship, but not proof of existance.
Historians have not provided us with evidence of a god either. They've provided us with evidence of belief and worship of all sorts of gods but no evidence of any one of them actually existing.

Neither, really.

I don't see WHY we should not simply use numbers to make sure the law says what we think it should say, and remove all disambiguation.

Democracy = majority-decision. Nuffin else.

Hi there. My psuedonym is Dinaverg. Your clearly new to these great states, so let me show you around a bit. *points to Washington D.C.* This is where our federal government is centered. Our government is a Federal Republic, you can learn more about them on Wikipedia if you'd like.

Who's that?

The Atlantian Islands.

The Atlantian Islands.
Ah. I know of him, but don't recall actually talking to him myself.

Hi there. My psuedonym is Dinaverg. Your clearly new to these great states, so let me show you around a bit. *points to Washington D.C.* This is where our federal government is centered. Our government is a Federal Republic, you can learn more about them on Wikipedia if you'd like.

Hi there!

Let me show you around the White House.

This is the office of the Legal Counsel to the President also known as Attorney General.

His name is Alonso or summat.

These days, the Law says what HE says it says.


Welcome to reality ;)

These days, the Law says what HE says it says.

...¿Qué?

That's an interesting stance, to say the least. What happens if the majority happens to decide a certain minority should be exterminated, for instance?


That's actually easy to answer:

See, we got this institution called the Council of Europe.

It ensures that no Government of a Member State ( and heck, even the US is an observer there, while just about every other democratic country on the planet is a full member ) steps out of the bounds set by the EDHR.

A Greater majority, then, to check and balance the local majority.

That's actually easy to answer:

See, we got this institution called the Council of Europe.

It ensures that no Government of a Member State ( and heck, even the US is an observer there, while just about every other democratic country on the planet is a full member ) steps out of the bounds set by the EDHR.

A Greater majority, then, to check and balance the local majority.

And when the majority decides they don't care for the Council of Europe?

And when the majority decides they don't care for the Council of Europe?


*shrug* Hasn't happened. Not expected either.

That's actually easy to answer:

See, we got this institution called the Council of Europe.

It ensures that no Government of a Member State ( and heck, even the US is an observer there, while just about every other democratic country on the planet is a full member ) steps out of the bounds set by the EDHR.

A Greater majority, then, to check and balance the local majority.

The USA isn't exactly known to take advice or obeying international law and agreements.

The USA isn't exactly known to take advice or obeying international law and agreements.


And even if it did, I would not feel the slightest need to rally to your side, wot?

Sorry, but your interruption was ever so slightly useless.

And even if it did, I would not feel the slightest need to rally to your side, wot?

Sorry, but your interruption was ever so slightly useless.

How is that organization then supposed to prevent genocide?

How is that organization then supposed to prevent genocide?

*does not even listen to you*

...


......


.........


So...this same logic would apply to...say...the 13% black people?
More importantly, I assume that this same logic will apply when non-religious people are in the majority. Which, based on current trends, will occur within the next two generations. Naturally the religious citizens will move aside gracefully, and will be content to watch their beliefs ridiculed and demonized in every sphere of public life, without making a single peep of complaint.

More importantly, I assume that this same logic will apply when non-religious people are in the majority. Which, based on current trends, will occur within the next two generations. Naturally the religious citizens will move aside gracefully, and will be content to watch their beliefs ridiculed and demonized in every sphere of public life, without making a single peep of complaint.


Ma chere bouteille - why do you always make such good arguments in favour of preemptive strikes? You know how much the GOP likes those.

Ma chere bouteille - why do you always make such good arguments in favour of preemptive strikes? You know how much the GOP likes those.
Why do I make such arguments? Because recent history has shown me exactly how effective "preemptive strikes" by the GOP really are...that is to say, marginally less effective than trying to thread a garden hose through a needle's eye.

Why do I make such arguments? Because recent history has shown me exactly how effective "preemptive strikes" by the GOP really are...that is to say, marginally less effective than trying to thread a garden hose through a needle's eye.

Well, if you smash the tip with a hammer first...

Why do I make such arguments? Because recent history has shown me exactly how effective "preemptive strikes" by the GOP really are...that is to say, marginally less effective than trying to thread a garden hose through a needle's eye.

Well, let us say I am happy I don't live overthere.

Whether or not a pre-emptive strike works, we do know that it will turn a lot of folks into roadkill.





HEY! We no longer need the Collateral Damage word: henceforth, it is roadkilll.

Well, if you smash the tip with a hammer first...
Yeah, that does seem to be the GOP strategy du jour.

Neither, really.

I don't see WHY we should not simply use numbers to make sure the law says what we think it should say, and remove all disambiguation.

Democracy = majority-decision. Nuffin else.
And people wonder why I say that democracy is antithetical to freedom.

The USA isn't exactly known to take advice or obeying international law and agreements.
Thank you, Hamdan v. Rumsfeld.

Yes, and may that never change.

Atheism: the fine art of making Islam look good...

BogMarsh: Creator of the fine art of showing once more that there really is no difference between Extremist Islamism and Christian Fundamentalism.

Sure, if you really must, nail me up on a cross for not being part of the majority. Oh, wait, didn't the Romans already do that to Jesus and others only 2,000 years ago?