NationStates Jolt Archive

Since there are very few people who do not have strong views on the subject I thought a poll might help. None of the views above neccessarily represents my own. I want people to cut out the wishy washy and say who they think is ultimately culpable for the situation.

You really needed to make this poll multiple choice. I voted Syria and Iran, but crazed, genocidal Muslim fundies are evil too. In fact, I kind of regret not voting for them.

Should be multiple choice . . .
Besides, how constructive is assigning blame?

You're missing the option of chosing as evil of evillest:
any no good s.o.b. who endorses islamic government.
Terrorism is the symptom, Islamism is the disease that causes it.

hasselhoff is definitely more evil than all the above....

Should be multiple choice . . .
Besides, how constructive is assigning blame?
May not be constructive but it sure seems to make people feel good.

None of the first four in the poll are more or less evil than the others, however the last in the poll is the least evil. While it would be nice if the international community could resolve the situation, it isn't the international community's job to do so, and in addition the assistance of the international community might not be wanted.

God?

How constructive is to fire off rovckets into Israel or bomb the shit out of Lebanon?

The fundamentalist religious leaders of Islam and Judaism who brainwash thousands of otherwise normal people and involve them in their insecurities over the comparative sizes of their deities' penises.

You're missing the option of chosing as evil of evillest:
any no good s.o.b. who endorses islamic government.
Terrorism is the symptom, Islamism is the disease that causes it.

I think that counts as the 2nd option

None of the first four in the poll are more or less evil than the others, however the last in the poll is the least evil. While it would be nice if the international community could resolve the situation, it isn't the international community's job to do so, and in addition the assistance of the international community might not be wanted.

All very nice but this is the sort of wishy-washyness the poll is desinged to counter

Where is the "Humans" option?

The fundamentalist religious leaders of Islam and Judaism who brainwash thousands of otherwise normal people and involve them in their insecurities over the comparative sizes of their deities' penises.

ah yes but I'm asking you to choose between them. "there can be only one!"

God?

by definition cannot be evil

by definition cannot be evil

By His definition, maybe.

All very nice but this is the sort of wishy-washyness the poll is desinged to counterOh, I know, and I'm sure you'll get plenty of people who feel very strongly about one group being more evil than the other for various reasons; I probably am in the minority in this.

Oh, I know, and I'm sure you'll get plenty of people who feel very strongly about one group being more evil than the other for various reasons; I probably am in the minority in this.

I'm with you. Except regarding the Israeli population; you can't condemn them all for the atrocities their leaders commit.

By His definition, maybe.

well if he is omnipotent then his word goes

by definition cannot be evil
Hah! Yeah. :rolleyes:

I think that counts as the 2nd option

I consider that slightly inaccurate - if there were no Israeli's, they'd still be u to no good.

Call a spade a spade: Islamism is the cancer - radical surgery is the answer.

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/1307/1399/1600/DSC01463.jpg

They're ALL Hizbullah, you know?

I'm with you. Except regarding the Israeli population; you can't condemn them all for the atrocities their leaders commit.

I am not condemning them I merely make it an option in case other people might like to.

well if he is omnipotent then his word goes

Good and evil are outside the scope of omnipotence, since they are not objective qualities.

ah yes but I'm asking you to choose between them. "there can be only one!"
You've given it away . . it's the Highlander's fault!

None of the first four in the poll are more or less evil than the others, however the last in the poll is the least evil. While it would be nice if the international community could resolve the situation, it isn't the international community's job to do so, and in addition the assistance of the international community might not be wanted.
The international community created the problem in the first place by drawing lines on a map in 1948.

ah yes but I'm asking you to choose between them. "there can be only one!"

You're asking me to choose between the maniacs who convince people that jews might have bigger dicks and must die or the maniacs who convince people that muslims might have bigger dicks and must die?

Tough choice.

But I would have to say neither:

The greatest evil are the christian fundamentalists who egg both sides on because "The Middle East is tactically important" When all they really want is for them to kill eachother off because they might have bigger dicks.

I am not condemning them I merely make it an option in case other people might like to.

I didn't say you were; I was referring to Jello Biafra's position, not yours.

I'm with you. Except regarding the Israeli population; you can't condemn them all for the atrocities their leaders commit.But the atrocities are being committed, at least in part, in their names; I don't usually hear about Israelis calling for a stop of Israeli military action/atrocity, depending on your viewpoint; does this happen often?

I consider that slightly inaccurate - if there were no Israeli's, they'd still be u to no good.

Call a spade a spade: Islamism is the cancer - radical surgery is the answer.

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/1307/1399/1600/DSC01463.jpg

They're ALL Hizbullah, you know?

ok. let's just say that "crazed fundamentalists" are capable of holding more than one thought in their heads

You're missing the option of chosing as evil of evillest:
any no good s.o.b. who endorses islamic government.
Terrorism is the symptom, Islamism is the disease that causes it.

Ya and what about all the non Islamic terrorists? They just thought it looked fun and said for the craic boys come on and lets copy them?

The international community created the problem in the first place by drawing lines on a map in 1948.They drew the map that way because of Zionism; if there had been no Jews interested in going back to their ancestral kingdom, the lines wouldn't have been drawn that way; either way I think the problems would have occurred even if the map hadn't been drawn that way.

Ehhh I picked one but most of them are at fault some way or another

by definition cannot be evil
Sowwy - but once again: inaccurate

The only religion that uses God Himself as the measurestick of good happens to be... Islam.

Christianity, Judaism, and the rest of the lot are ust a smidgen more relativistic on such matters.

For your perusal: the 'Eutrypho' by Plato.
http://www.brothersjudd.com/blog/archives/2006/07/here_i_staaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnndd_1.html

Good and evil are outside the scope of omnipotence, since they are not objective qualities.

Is he is omnipotent then he has the power to make the definition

You're asking me to choose between the maniacs who convince people that jews might have bigger dicks and must die or the maniacs who convince people that muslims might have bigger dicks and must die?

Tough choice.

But I would have to say neither:

The greatest evil are the christian fundamentalists who egg both sides on because "The Middle East is tactically important" When all they really want is for them to kill eachother off because they might have bigger dicks.

Best post ever!

ok. let's just say that "crazed fundamentalists" are capable of holding more than one thought in their heads


I'd say they DON'T by definition.

You're asking me to choose between the maniacs who convince people that jews might have bigger dicks and must die or the maniacs who convince people that muslims might have bigger dicks and must die?

Tough choice.

But I would have to say neither:

The greatest evil are the christian fundamentalists who egg both sides on because "The Middle East is tactically important" When all they really want is for them to kill eachother off because they might have bigger dicks.

Genius! I hadn't thought of that explanation before but it does make sense - why else would the West arm them and then antagonise them?

Ya and what about all the non Islamic terrorists? They just thought it looked fun and said for the craic boys come on and lets copy them?

We'll deal with THAT once each and every Islamist on the planet has been consigned to the burning fires of Hell.

We'll deal with THAT once each and every Islamist on the planet has been consigned to the burning fires of Hell.
Wow I don’t know if you mis-spoke or I mis-understood but that is more blatantly racist then I expected from you

Ya and what about all the non Islamic terrorists? They just thought it looked fun and said for the craic boys come on and lets copy them?To be fair, it's the other way around, the Muslims copied others. Israel only came into being as a modern state as a result of terrorism committed by Jews.

You're asking me to choose between the maniacs who convince people that jews might have bigger dicks and must die or the maniacs who convince people that muslims might have bigger dicks and must die?

Tough choice.

But I would have to say neither:

The greatest evil are the christian fundamentalists who egg both sides on because "The Middle East is tactically important" When all they really want is for them to kill eachother off because they might have bigger dicks.

A somewhat phallus-centric view of international affairs... :p

And the word you're looking for is "neocon" not christian fundamentalist. The reason THEY want conflict over there is because of some references in the old testament that they believe calls on them to defend Israel.

Ya and what about all the non Islamic terrorists? They just thought it looked fun and said for the craic boys come on and lets copy them?

I can only guess where you're from :D

Sowwy - but once again: inaccurate

The only religion that uses God Himself as the measurestick of good happens to be... Islam.

Christianity, Judaism, and the rest of the lot are ust a smidgen more relativistic on such matters.

For your perusal: the 'Eutrypho' by Plato.
http://www.brothersjudd.com/blog/archives/2006/07/here_i_staaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnndd_1.html

sowwy if you are an omnipotent being who created the world of Christian, Jew and Muslim (and omnipotence is one attribute they all ascribe to their deity) then you are also capable of making definitions. I am not familiar with the other texts but I do remember from the bible that even when he was in full "smite" mode it was always "righteous". Anyway this thread is not a semantic discussion of the finer points of religious doctrine.

Genius! I hadn't thought of that explanation before but it does make sense - why else would the West arm them and then antagonise them?

It all comes down to dicks. That's why all their weapon systems shoot dicks at eachother :)

But the atrocities are being committed, at least in part, in their names; I don't usually hear about Israelis calling for a stop of Israeli military action/atrocity, depending on your viewpoint; does this happen often?

There are lots of Israeli peace organizations - B'Tselem (http://www.btselem.org/English/index.asp), Gush Shalom (http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en), Rabbis for Human Rights (http://www.rhr.israel.net/), Refusing for Israel (http://seruv.org.il/english/default.asp), and others.

It's questionable how much of the population agrees with their analysis, though. Operations like the present ones in Gaza and Lebanon probably enjoy strong support, but the settlement programs, for one example, do not.

I'd say they DON'T by definition.

"God is good" + "Let's kill people" = 2 thoughts

Wow I don’t know if you mis-spoke or I mis-understood but that is more blatantly racist then I expected from you

When I say Islamist, I don't mis-speak at all.

Were I to say Muslim ( instead of Islamist ) I'd be guilty of what you charge.

Actually, I could pick the progressive-muslim term Foundamentalist,
but you'd have even less of a clue of what I was on about.

Meanwhile, call 'em Foundamentalist, or call 'em Islamist, as long as you consign 'em Hellwards.

A somewhat phallus-centric view of international affairs... :p

And the word you're looking for is "neocon" not christian fundamentalist. The reason THEY want conflict over there is because of some references in the old testament that they believe calls on them to defend Israel.

That's what foreign affairs is: Dick comparison.

War is nothing but a prick-waving dickfight. Holy War is just a prick-waving dickfight to prove your god has the bigger dick.

When I say Islamist, I don't mis-speak at all.

Were I to say Muslim ( instead of Islamist ) I'd be guilty of what you charge.

Actually, I could pick the progressive-muslim term Foundamentalist,
but you'd have even less of a clue of what I was on about.

Meanwhile, call 'em Foundamentalist, or call 'em Islamist, as long as you consign 'em Hellwards.
Then I misunderstood which is why I put my original statement as I did

"God is good" + "Let's kill people" = 2 thoughts

Haven't heard 'm much about Allah is good, actually.

sowwy if you are an omnipotent being who created the world of Christian, Jew and Muslim (and omnipotence is one attribute they all ascribe to their deity) then you are also capable of making definitions. I am not familiar with the other texts but I do remember from the bible that even when he was in full "smite" mode it was always "righteous". Anyway this thread is not a semantic discussion of the finer points of religious doctrine.
People define words, not gods.
Ooooh, I'm a linguistic agnostic!

Then I misunderstood which is why I put my original statement as I did


*Happy to clear up the confusion.*

That's what foreign affairs is: Dick comparison.

War is nothing but a prick-waving dickfight. Holy War is just a prick-waving dickfight to prove your god has the bigger dick.

aaah that explains why Margaret Thatcher went to war over the Falklands

Haven't heard 'm much about Allah is good, actually.

Sorry should have been small g

aaah that explains why Margaret Thatcher went to war over the Falklands
She had a bigger dick than most *nods*

People define words, not gods.
Ooooh, I'm a linguistic agnostic!

If you take a creationsit view (which i wouldn't advise0 or and Intelligent desgin view or even just suggest that everything that happens is the will of God (with or without a capital G) then the definition of the word and the word itself is part of the work of the divinity.

Is he is omnipotent then he has the power to make the definition
Right. God could make them objective qualities.

sowwy if you are an omnipotent being who created the world of Christian, Jew and Muslim (and omnipotence is one attribute they all ascribe to their deity) then you are also capable of making definitions. I am not familiar with the other texts but I do remember from the bible that even when he was in full "smite" mode it was always "righteous". Anyway this thread is not a semantic discussion of the finer points of religious doctrine.

Sowwy, but the fine point of it is that Islam is the only religion in which the Almighty is so conceited as to actually do ordain the standards of good and bad.

In other religious traditions, God becomes defined as 'good' for (S)He conforms to an independent standard of 'good'.

It is not a minor semantic point: it lies at the hear of the inability of a certain religion to get on with any of its neighbours, be they Jewish, Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, or whatelse.

If you take a creationsit view (which i wouldn't advise0 or and Intelligent desgin view or even just suggest that everything that happens is the will of God (with or without a capital G) then the definition of the word and the word itself is part of the work of the divinity.
Well if God is omnipotent, and God refuses to intercede and lets evil occur- God is by extension, evil, for willingly allowing evil to happen.

Or God can't stop it. Therefore God is not omnipotent.

Sorry should have been small g


Quod?

If you take a creationsit view (which i wouldn't advise0 or and Intelligent desgin view or even just suggest that everything that happens is the will of God (with or without a capital G) then the definition of the word and the word itself is part of the work of the divinity.
But aren't you then agreeing that the situation in the Middle East is God's fault, and that He is therefore evil? I thought you were arguing against that position?

Well if God is omnipotent, and God refuses to intercede and lets evil occur- God is by extension, evil, for willingly allowing evil to happen.

Or God can't stop it. Therefore God is not omnipotent.

i think we can all add to this list of possibilities however God is not listed as one of the options so i will ask you to choose again.

Right. God could make them objective qualities.

But does (s)he?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthyphro

i vote options one, two and three.

i think we can all add to this list of possibilities however God is not listed as one of the options so i will ask you to choose again.
No.

I choose God as being 'more evil' than your entire selection.

Not my fault you made a poor poll.

But aren't you then agreeing that the situation in the Middle East is God's fault, and that He is therefore evil? I thought you were arguing against that position?

I am refusing to allow the option of God as evil. I am more interested in people's views on the relative evilness of the human participants.

No.

I choose God as being 'more evil' than your entire selection.

Not my fault you made a poor poll.

In the creation of this poll I have assumed the role of omnipotent creator by restricting the available choices. I am not interested in discussing who has the better deity or theology. I want to hear people's views on the political and military actions of the human participants.

In the creation of this poll I have assumed the role of omnipotent creator by restricting the available choices. I am not interested in discussing who has the better deity or theology. I want to hear people's views on the political and military actions of the human participants.
Aha! By assuming the mantle of Deity, you have admitted that the situation is, in fact, your fault!
BTW, this impies that most wishywashy of all answers, which is that we are all, in some measure, to blame for the state of affairs in the world. :cool:

No i have created the poll not the situation (I couldn't claim credit for that)

No i have created the poll not the situation (I couldn't claim credit for that)
Don't be so modest!
Did you take any action to prevent the current situation?
Either way, are you not at least partly responsible for it?
Credit where credit is due, I say.

Don't be so modest!
Did you take any action to prevent the current situation?
Either way, are you not at least partly responsible for it?
Credit where credit is due, I say.


2 words:

Miserable.
Pedant.

Don't be so modest!
Did you take any action to prevent the current situation?
Either way, are you not at least partly responsible for it?
Credit where credit is due, I say.

I sent my entire military force to the area

I sent my entire military force to the area
ROFL! Thank you, thank you! You just made this entire thread worth it :)

2 words:

Miserable.
Pedant.
I know you are, but what am I?

Beneath the cool, reasoned arguments of NS General, lie all the subtle dynamics of a kindergarden playground.

The fundamentalist religious leaders of Islam and Judaism who brainwash thousands of otherwise normal people and involve them in their insecurities over the comparative sizes of their deities' penises.
Uh, there are NO fundamentalist religious leaders of Judaism..because there arnt any leaders of Judaism.

We got rid of corrupt bastards who were the "leaders" of our religion after the second Temple burnt down....That was more or less or Protestant Reformation.

I know you are, but what am I?

Beneath the cool, reasoned arguments of NS General, lie all the subtle dynamics of a kindergarden playground.


A miserable pedantic bag of lime.

You either have an argument to make, or you don't.

What your 'argument' offered was wordplay. Mister, when I catch one of my graduate students ( and I've had quite a few ) offering pedantry and no substance, I add another 'F' to his or her formal academic record.

A miserable pedantic bag of lime.

You either have an argument to make, or you don't.

What your 'argument' offered was wordplay. Mister, when I catch one of my graduate students ( and I've had quite a few ) offering pedantry and no substance, I add another 'F' to his or her formal academic record.
I made my argument, that the poll is inadequate. And yet it remains, therefore I mock it, and you ;)

I made my argument, that the poll is inadequate. And yet it remains, therefore I mock it, and you ;)

And I, for my part, wish you 38 years of misery.

The Syrians and Iranians. The only states that have yet to give up their beef with Israel. Sooner or later they'll have to do so, or there'll be a war. A war they cannot win.

Define 'Evil' in this case.

No, seriously. This is a multi-national, multi-cultural, mutli-religious board each with their own definition of evil.

Spent most of today debating Evil and the dangers of Cultural Relativism and Absolutism so I am interested to see what you all think is 'Evil'.

The best suggestion I have heard so far, for a universal truism, is 'Evil=Hypocrisy'...

But does (s)he?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthyphro
Luckily, the gods Euthyphro discussed weren't generally considered to have this sort of omnipotence.

In God's case, he's responsible for every aspect of the nature of the universe, including the existence or non-existence of objective morality.

They're all pretty damn insane.

You're missing the option of chosing as evil of evillest:
any no good s.o.b. who endorses islamic government.
Terrorism is the symptom, Islamism is the disease that causes it.

That should be sigged. Well said!

You really needed to make this poll multiple choice. I voted Syria and Iran, but crazed, genocidal Muslim fundies are evil too. In fact, I kind of regret not voting for them.

I voted for the crazed, genicidal Muslim fundies...but wanted to vote for Syria and Iran as well. In fact, I kind of regret not voting for them too. We need to log on with puppets for lack of a multiple choice option.

well we could have a seperate poll thread for "which country is the most evil?"

The Islamists are the most bigoted, but at least them some of them can claim to be directly suffering from Israel's policies.

I choose the supporting governments of Syria and Iran. They are the most evil.

I consider that slightly inaccurate - if there were no Israeli's, they'd still be u to no good.

Call a spade a spade: Islamism is the cancer - radical surgery is the answer.

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/1307/1399/1600/DSC01463.jpg

They're ALL Hizbullah, you know?
And the protestors go BOOM!

But the atrocities are being committed, at least in part, in their names; I don't usually hear about Israelis calling for a stop of Israeli military action/atrocity, depending on your viewpoint; does this happen often?
In fairness, you probably don't hear about much that goes on within foreign countries. Israel has a large peace movement.

It is probably one of the most ideologically diverse countries in the world.

Christianity, Judaism, and the rest of the lot are ust a smidgen more relativistic on such matters.

For your perusal: the 'Eutrypho' by Plato.
http://www.brothersjudd.com/blog/archives/2006/07/here_i_staaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnndd_1.html
Ah Boggie, bless you. Always raising the intellectual standard.

We'll deal with THAT once each and every Islamist on the planet has been consigned to the burning fires of Hell.
That fate is rather beyond our power to hand out to anyone.

Wow I don’t know if you mis-spoke or I mis-understood but that is more blatantly racist then I expected from you
Remember, Islamist =/= Islamic.

aaah that explains why Margaret Thatcher went to war over the Falklands
The ultimate case of penis envy.

Sowwy, but the fine point of it is that Islam is the only religion in which the Almighty is so conceited as to actually do ordain the standards of good and bad.
Don't you also condemn moral relativism? You think it's conceited for a God to ordain standards of good and bad but that it's not conceited for a mortal human like you?

The Islamofacsists are the most xenophobic and homocidal. Hell, they even kill fellow muslims just for not following their brand of Islamic xenophobia. The world hasn't seen such xenophobia since the end of the witch trials.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xandabia
aaah that explains why Margaret Thatcher went to war over the Falklands

The ultimate case of penis envy.

I certainly wish I had her balls!