NationStates Jolt Archive

I hear a lot about time outs as a way to discipline children.

What is the deal with time outs? How do they work as a disciplinary tool? Are you just leaving these kids alone? How is that punishment?

I remember as a child in Kindegarten, my teacher had a white table that was called the time-out table. It was never used except when one of us was bad. It worked extremely well. We avoided that table like it was covered in a disease.

time outs are not meant for punishment, and that's why they don't work as such.

A time out is basically giving a child time to compose themselves so that they can control their emotions and express them properly.

You don't give a child a time out because they are angry, but because they are expressing the anger in an unacceptable manner (hitting, throwing a fit, being disrespectful)

time outs are not meant for punishment, and that's why they don't work as such.

A time out is basically giving a child time to compose themselves so that they can control their emotions and express them properly.

You don't give a child a time out because they are angry, but because they are expressing the anger in an unacceptable manner (hitting, throwing a fit, being disrespectful)

Wouldn't a time out just make them more angry, because you are ignoring you them and they want your attention?

Wouldn't a time out just make them more angry, because you are ignoring you them and they want your attention?
it's their choice whether or not they want to get "more angry" the point is, I am not going to talk to them until they can treat me like I deserve to be treated.

We don't have screaming knock down drag outs in my house, you either talk to me with respect, or you don't talk to me at all.

Wouldn't a time out just make them more angry, because you are ignoring you them and they want your attention?
Kids learn pretty quickly that they can get what they want if they play by the rules.

In the spanking thread time outs were presented as an alternative to spanking. I wanted to know why they were something the kids would want to avoid.

Apparently Desperate Measures did want to avoid them. Why? In order to deter me, shouldn't the consequence be unpleasant?

Using them to give the kids time to compose themselves makes sense. I would have appreciated that as a little kid. But that would have made time outs good things - not bad things.

I use time outs at home. This is how they work:

The child is given a warning first, and explained to why the behaviour they are engaging in is inappropriate. Example, "Jumping off the couch may be fun, but it is also dangerous, since you could really hurt yourself."

The consequence is outlined. "If you jump off the couch again, you're going to get a time out."

If the behaviour is repeated, the child is removed to a time-out space...wherever it may be. In my case, it's my room, because my room is boring, there are no toys, and the kids can not amuse themselves while there. I leave my kids there for as many minutes as they have years...four for my eldest.

After the time is up, I go talk to my child. I outline what happened...the behaviour, the warning, the repeated behaviour, the time out. THIS IS IMPORTANT: I make my child repeat back to me what they should not be doing, or what they should be doing..."I won't jump off the couch because I can get hurt", or something like that. Having them say it makes a big difference in them actually remembering it.

Sometimes you have to use a timeout a couple of times to get them to really learn not to do something. But talking to them, explaining it, and checking for comprehension is key. Pretty soon, you'll hear them lecturing their siblings "Don't jump off the couch..blah blah blah...or you'll get a timeout".

It works, but you have to be consistent.

Using them to give the kids time to compose themselves makes sense. I would have appreciated that as a little kid. But that would have made time outs good things - not bad things.
They aren't necessarily about deterance. And kids, like some adults, react very emotionally and irrationally in the heat of the moment.

If I've asked my daughter to apologise for hitting her sister, and she starts yelling at me, she gets a time-out. Once she's calm, she apologises both to me, and to her sister, and we talk about what happened. If I tried to do that while she was still (literally) spitting mad, it would go nowhere.

For my kids, they are both about deterrance, AND about calming down. Sometimes for all of us.

Wouldn't a time out just make them more angry, because you are ignoring you them and they want your attention?
I usually didn't want your attention as a kid. I wanted to be left alone.

I started kindergarten when I was 4. Prior to that, I'd been pushed around in a stroller a lot (I was a small child). When it came time to go to school, it turned out my mother had sold my stroller. I was pretty upset, and asked her why she'd sold something that I used all the time. She explained that if I rode in a stroller to go to school the other kids would make fun of me.

My response:

"So?"

I very much lived in my own little world.

In the spanking thread time outs were presented as an alternative to spanking. I wanted to know why they were something the kids would want to avoid.

Apparently Desperate Measures did want to avoid them. Why? In order to deter me, shouldn't the consequence be unpleasant?

Using them to give the kids time to compose themselves makes sense. I would have appreciated that as a little kid. But that would have made time outs good things - not bad things.
Why did I want to avoid the White Table? (God, that brings back memories.) Because I couldn't speak, couldn't play, everyone was looking at the bad kid, because I knew I did something very wrong to get the White Table - it wasn't a punishment that was thrown around, the list goes on and on. Basically, it sucked.

If the behaviour is repeated, the child is removed to a time-out space...wherever it may be. In my case, it's my room, because my room is boring, there are no toys, and the kids can not amuse themselves while there.
I would have hidden toys in your room. At that age, my preferred hiding place was inside heating vents (forced air heating).

Why did I want to avoid the White Table? (God, that brings back memories.) Because I couldn't speak, couldn't play, everyone was looking at the bad kid, because I knew I did something very wrong to get the White Table - it wasn't a punishment that was thrown around, the list goes on and on. Basically, it sucked.
I found kindergarten incredibly boring when I started it. I literally sat in the corner and waited to go home. Sounds a lot like your white table.

Time out is best used with children between the ages of 3 and 5. It has less to do with leaving them alone as it does removing them from a source of positive reinforcement. You want the "punishment" to be as close as possible to what would be considered a natural consequence. For example, if a child is destroying his toy, you take away the toy. But if a child is being mean to another child or hitting or talking back to you or to another authority figure, you take them away from "society." The idea is, "You are going against the rules of society, so society doesn't want you around when you do that."

You put them in a place with no distractions, no books or games or whatever...that's why sending a child to his room doesn't do much...like maybe a chair facing the corner a la Dennis the Menace. The rule of thumb is a minute of time out per however years old the child is. This isn't a half-hour thing. If they get out of the chair or otherwise violate the time-out rules, they start the time out minutes again. Having a timer like an egg timer by the chair is helpful. Afterwards, you explain again why they were in time-out, and clarify that you love them but you don't like that behavior. End with a hug or whatever else.

Time out shouldn't be the only thing in your toolbox, but it's pretty good for a last resort for young kids. The best part of time out is that it's also a time-out for you, preventing you from screaming or hitting the child. When you do that, the child learns less about the consequences of their OWN behavior and more about how scary and unreasonable YOU are.

I usually didn't want your attention as a kid. I wanted to be left alone.

I started kindergarten when I was 4. Prior to that, I'd been pushed around in a stroller a lot (I was a small child). When it came time to go to school, it turned out my mother had sold my stroller. I was pretty upset, and asked her why she'd sold something that I used all the time. She explained that if I rode in a stroller to go to school the other kids would make fun of me.

My response:

"So?"

I very much lived in my own little world.

Immune to kids making fun of you, eh? I was the same way. The first day I started Pre-Kindergarten, I had three other kids tell me that I had a big head. My response? A very direct, I-don't-give-a-damn kind of "Yeah, I know". You'd be surprised at how effective agreeing with kids who are making fun of you is (especially older ones). It's even more effective when you actually start having a conversation about the thing(s) they were making fun of.

As for time outs... They've already been explained, and they work.

I remember as a child in Kindegarten, my teacher had a white table that was called the time-out table. It was never used except when one of us was bad. It worked extremely well. We avoided that table like it was covered in a disease.
My wife teaches 8th grade and has a student desk right next to hers. That's a desk that her students avoid like the plague.

Is it isolation, or ostracism that makes it work?

I found kindergarten incredibly boring when I started it. I literally sat in the corner and waited to go home. Sounds a lot like your white table.
Not really. I was pretty much a loner, too. It's like a scarlet letter A. Sure, you could wear an A on your shirt if you choose to but it's different if it is forced on you with the added weight of meaning.

My wife teaches 8th grade and has a student desk right next to hers. That's a desk that her students avoid like the plague.

Is it isolation, or ostracism that makes it work?
A mixture, I'd think.

nothing says discipline like a leather belt

theres the before threat of hearing the belt flying off your fathers waist going thourgh the belt loops on the way out.

then there is the actual punishment

then you realize you dont want that to happen again.

I would have hidden toys in your room. At that age, my preferred hiding place was inside heating vents (forced air heating).
I'm a clean freak, it'd never escape my notice.

I hear a lot about time outs as a way to discipline children.

What is the deal with time outs? How do they work as a disciplinary tool? Are you just leaving these kids alone? How is that punishment?

When my cousin's kids do something really wrong (like throw something at someone's head, or smack someone else, or push someone down to take what they have) she makes whoever misbehaved sit on the lowest step of the stairs up to the second floor. The lowest step faces a blank wall and they are physically separated from the rest of the family in the family room until their timeout is up.

She tells them as she is sitting them down that she is very disappointed in them and that it hurts her to see them being so mean to each other. I forget how she determines how long they sit -- I remember it's a particular number of minutes times their age. I don't think she's made them sit more than ten minutes, though. She doesn't hit, and she doesn't yell, but she does insist they sit out the whole timeout period.

The whole time, the kid is crying because they know they are in disgrace and they are bored to tears.

She does not have to do it very often, and they are MUCH pleasanter after.

nothing says discipline like a leather belt

theres the before threat of hearing the belt flying off your fathers waist going thourgh the belt loops on the way out.

then there is the actual punishment

then you realize you dont want that to happen again.

Actually, nothing says violence is an acceptable response to getting annoyed like getting beaten with a strap.

And you grow up to feel you should beat others when they annoy you.

Actually, nothing says violence is an acceptable response to getting annoyed like getting beaten with a strap.

And you grow up to feel you should beat others when they annoy you.

who have i hit?

i have never been in an all out physical fight with anyone, so your generalization because i was not brought up with rounded corners and padded walls that i must be a violent person is indeed false.

One thing I think more adults need to remember is that children absolutely have a memory that works quite well, thanks. Consistency is absolutely paramount. If you say no, mean it. If you say no, and no turns into yes, you've just undone the hundred no's that meant no...because you child will remember that eventually, no means yes.

It's the same with the total discipline plan. Once in a while you might screw up...react in a temper, or go too far. Apologise. You aren't undermining your authority...you are teaching your kids that even you can recognise when you make mistakes.

I've taught my kids to tell me, 'don't be grumpy', and they do it at the right times, because even at 4 and 2 years, they KNOW when a reaction is reasonable and when it is not.

who have i hit?

i have never been in an all out physical fight with anyone, so your generalization because i was not brought up with rounded corners and padded walls that i must be a violent person is indeed false.


Really? Because you seem to approve of beating children with a strap.
Children become what they experience. If they see Dad hit Mom, there's a good possibility they will hit their girlfriend or wife, or feel that their boyfriend or husband has a right to hit them.

If you see Mom and Dad smoke, you are more likely to smoke.

If you get beaten as a child, you are more likely to beat your own children.

My parents never once raised a hand against any of their children. They were much more devious than that - they used things like disappointment to keep us in line. No-one wanted to disappoint our parents.

In the spanking thread time outs were presented as an alternative to spanking. I wanted to know why they were something the kids would want to avoid.

Apparently Desperate Measures did want to avoid them. Why? In order to deter me, shouldn't the consequence be unpleasant?

Using them to give the kids time to compose themselves makes sense. I would have appreciated that as a little kid. But that would have made time outs good things - not bad things.
In highschool, did you avoid getting a detention. The two are fairly similar. You are by yourself, nothing you can amuse yourself with, and you would rather be somewheres else with your friends/siblings etc.

Really? Because you seem to approve of beating children with a strap.
Children become what they experience. If they see Dad hit Mom, there's a good possibility they will hit their girlfriend or wife, or feel that their boyfriend or husband has a right to hit them.

If you see Mom and Dad smoke, you are more likely to smoke.

If you get beaten as a child, you are more likely to beat your own children.

have any evidence to prove this?

kids see mom and dad go to church, do they go to church?

have any evidence to prove this?

kids see mom and dad go to church, do they go to church?

Uhh, Moms and Dads don't usually abandon the kids to get with God. Just FYI, there.

have any evidence to prove this?

http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2/CP44-ID44-douglas.pdf
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3092847.stm
http://www.unicef.org/protection/index_violence.html
http://archives.cnn.com/2000/HEALTH/10/05/raising.kids/
http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9708/14/nfm.spanking/

http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2/CP44-ID44-douglas.pdf
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3092847.stm
http://www.unicef.org/protection/index_violence.html
http://archives.cnn.com/2000/HEALTH/10/05/raising.kids/
http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9708/14/nfm.spanking/
I think, in most cases, you could just make up urls. I think that most people will see five links and go "OK, they are right"

My parents never once raised a hand against any of their children. They were much more devious than that - they used things like disappointment to keep us in line. No-one wanted to disappoint our parents.
Oh I hated that...it worked so well, we used to punish OURSELVES...we'd do something that disappointed them, and they'd get that disappointed face...we'd go to our room an agonise over what we'd done and what our punishment may be...they must have been laughing their asses off during those child-free hours...

have any evidence to prove this?

kids see mom and dad go to church, do they go to church?
Oddly enough, according to census records, the mother's relgion (or lack thereof) seems to determine (in the majority of cases) the religion of the children (or lack thereof)...interesting, no?

Time outs can work pretty good. If not, you can always deat them.

Time outs can work pretty good. If not, you can always deat them.
Hahahahahhaaa....

I think, in most cases, you could just make up urls. I think that most people will see five links and go "OK, they are right"


You could, like, click on them to see what they are.
Or you could Google them to see where they came from.
It's almost as easy as implying I took five minutes to write gibberish or make up five web pages.

Time outs can be effective. I don't remember getting a lot, but i've always been a goody two shoes.

I dont have my own kids, yet, but I'm a pretty good disciplinarian when I babysit. If the kid does something minor, I tell her to stop. Sometimes they do something really disrespectful though, and I have no tolerance for that. I grab the girl by her arms (not hard, so it doesnt hurt. Simply enough to make it so that she can't run away). I make her look me in the eyes. I tell her firmly to NOT do that, explain in simple words why, and tell her to make it right. They know I mean business, from the change in my demeanor and tone.

I don't babysit boys. I've had to get young boys to stop bad behavior, but it wasn't anything serious, like disrespect or hurting someone else. More like following rules to games. In those cases, since its a much lighter offense, I playfully flip the boy upside down. It is very much a game, and they are never hurt, but it reminds them they are not in charge. They are not afraid, because I am gentle and playful, but they are reminded that there are some rules that need to be obeyed.

When I become a mother, I plan on employing time outs, but only for the most serious of offenses. The girls I babysit would much rather I be their playmate than their disciplinarian, so they behave. I think the same will go for my kids. (But by no means do I think parents should be friends with their kids. My dad always said "My job isn't to make you like me. My job is to make you a successful, productive member of society.")

In highschool, did you avoid getting a detention. The two are fairly similar. You are by yourself, nothing you can amuse yourself with, and you would rather be somewheres else with your friends/siblings etc.
Once I was in school, I did come to value my free time, simply because I had less of it. That said, detention was a lot like class - you sit quietly and wait for it to be over.

I often say, "I'm good at being bored; I went to highschool."

That's actually my biggest complaint with kids these days. They don't appear able to just sit quietly and amuse themselves in their own heads while they wait for stuff.

In the spanking thread time outs were presented as an alternative to spanking. I wanted to know why they were something the kids would want to avoid.

Apparently Desperate Measures did want to avoid them. Why? In order to deter me, shouldn't the consequence be unpleasant?

Using them to give the kids time to compose themselves makes sense. I would have appreciated that as a little kid. But that would have made time outs good things - not bad things.

Because a spanking is the addition of something unpleasant (getting spanked), a time out is the removal of something pleasant (freedom of movement, watching tv, playing with toys).

Acting in a way to avoid something unpleasant is equally a deterant as acting in a way to avoid the removal of something pleasant. However the second does not actually involve physically hitting your kid (note, I place no value one way or the other on spanking in this post, merely explaing why time out, as a removal of something positive, can be seen as a deterrant, calm the hell down or no tv for you!)

In the spanking thread time outs were presented as an alternative to spanking. I wanted to know why they were something the kids would want to avoid.

Apparently Desperate Measures did want to avoid them. Why? In order to deter me, shouldn't the consequence be unpleasant?

Using them to give the kids time to compose themselves makes sense. I would have appreciated that as a little kid. But that would have made time outs good things - not bad things.

kids are not adults. they dont have the same priorities as adults.

there are 3 possible reactions that parents or caregivers can have to behavior

1) they can praise it

2) they can yell at you or punish you for it

3) they can ignore it

for adults the preferences of reactions is 1, 3, 2. we would much rather be ignored than be punished. for kids the preference is 1, 2, 3. they would rather get ANY kind of attention, even negative, rather than be ignored. many kids misbehave just to get the attention of their parents and caretakers.

for those children and for those situations where they are mindlessly misbehaving time out are extremely effective. the key is to give the child NO attention once he has gone into his time out space. some experts even recommend that you lock the door if necessary to keep them from getting out (or using one of those doorknob covers that prevent kids from opening the door). you leave the child to scream and cry until he gets it out of his system then start the time out timer (one minute for each year of age) when it *dings* the child gets let out of time out without any more discussion and no more hard feelings from the parent.

for adults the preferences of reactions is 1, 3, 2. we would much rather be ignored than be punished. for kids the preference is 1, 2, 3.
I suppose that might be true for most kids. It wasn't for me; I did enjoy being left alone. Perhaps I was unusual.

Actually, nothing says violence is an acceptable response to getting annoyed like getting beaten with a strap.

And you grow up to feel you should beat others when they annoy you.
If the beatings happen without any warning, sure.

I attended a school where the strap was used for discipline (I was 10). It wasn't used often, but it was used. I found it an effective deterrent.

I suppose that might be true for most kids. It wasn't for me; I did enjoy being left alone. Perhaps I was unusual.
between ages 2 and 5? that is very unusual. although most kids enjoy working on their own stuff at that age.

did you misbehave at those times when you were playing by yourself?

kids who misbehave in front of their parents are doing it for effect, not because they are too stupid to know that what they are doing is against the rules.

between ages 2 and 5? that is very unusual. although most kids enjoy working on their own stuff at that age.

did you misbehave at those times when you were playing by yourself?

kids who misbehave in front of their parents are doing it for effect, not because they are too stupid to know that what they are doing is against the rules.
By all accounts I was quite well-behaved as a young child. Once I could read I was happy to be left alone with a book. This was my problem in kindergarten - I was used to spending my time reading, but I was suddenly in a room with a bunch of other kids and no readily available books.

Rules violations were typically caused by my being unaware of what my expected behaviour was (that hasn't really changed, incidentally - people are insufficiently precise).

I hear a lot about time outs as a way to discipline children.

What is the deal with time outs? How do they work as a disciplinary tool? Are you just leaving these kids alone? How is that punishment?Time outs don't do much if you leave the kid alone. Proper time outs are enforced boredom. That's something kids, little energy bundles that they are, can't stand, making it an effective means of discipline.