NationStates Jolt Archive

Progressively.



Right-wing governments frequently increase public spending on certain ends. Such as the military. Only minarchist ones specifically oppose most public spending, but even then they might promote pro-natal policies.



No party would remove this immediately. Even in the US there is extensive government provision for higher education.


Utterly incorrect. The Libertarian Party and many capitalist Republicans are right-wing without necessarily being religious. They support social liberty as well as economic. Much like our liberal parties.

Some Conservatives are traditionalists or protectionists, or both. It is sheer idiocy to think they all adhere to the same beliefs.



By definition, it is. You conserve the status quo. No true left-wing individual would support them.

Yet you can describe some Euro-conservatives as such.


My, how unfortunate...



That doesn't mean it isn't conservative. It simply means the minority wields considerable power.


It is, lamentably, a social democracy, much like Britain. That does not preclude conservative opinions from prevailing within. I wonder how long you will be able to finance such an extravagant welfare system...in fact, this is exactly why conservatism is on the rise in Europe. Nice touch with the sarcastic statement, if not utterly amateurish.



I am sure, however, your knowledge on America pales by comparison to mine.

You seem to have the wrong idea. What I'm trying to tell my expert-on-europe-yank friend is that rightwing in Europe is not the same as rightwing in the USA, not that rightwing does not exist in Europe. Nor am I trying to argue that the Scandinavian system is perfect. I am merely pointing out TIA's ignorance of the system...Stating that countries such as Denmark, Holland and even Switzerland have rightwing governments comparable to the USA's Republican government, is simply put, stupid. It's as simple as that, really.

I don't doubt your knowledge on America is vast and extensive, despite the statistics telling me that in all likelyhood it isn't.

Honestly, maybe if you DID read those posts that too up half the page between WangWee and I, you would see that I am informed about European politics and I did base all my arguements on facts, votes, and political party agenda listed by the parties. I know I post alot of opinion in this forum, but what you are talking about here, what I posted and have been posting back and forth with my Icelandic buddy here is not opinion, it is fact.

Ok. You know what AI?

You're right. You're absolutely right. You know better. You've got it nailed on the head. You're more on the ball.

We're wrong. We don't know what we're talking about.

Thank you for your help.

And in the Netherlands, the Dutch government has classified the risk of a terrorist attack as "substantial," a threat level proportionally higher than in the United States, where homeland security officials judge the risk as "elevated." The Dutch government established its threat-ranking system in November 2004, when an Islamic radical killed the Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh.

This kinda things always make me laugh. Really, on the site of the Government they stay Substantial means that there's a random threat of Terrorist Activities...:eek: *runs away*

Ok. You know what AI?

You're right. You're absolutely right. You know better. You've got it nailed on the head. You're more on the ball.

We're wrong. We don't know what we're talking about.

Thank you for your help.

:rolleyes: I am right...I have really only used facts and governemnt/political party agenda in my arguement...Europa Maxima sees it, why cant you?

This kinda things always make me laugh. Really, on the site of the Government they stay Substantial means that there's a random threat of Terrorist Activities...:eek: *runs away*
Well...its higher than what the notorious American system is at....so take that for what you want.:confused:

Well...its higher than what the notorious American system is at....so take that for what you want.:confused:

And yet... Europeans on the whole seem less concerend with the issue. The only time I discuss terrorism is on NS, usually with US Americans. It's not much of a topic with friends, family and acquaintances, neither here in Ireland nor back home in Germany.

*shrugs and gets on with her life

And yet... Europeans on the whole seem less concerend with the issue. The only time I discuss terrorism is on NS, usually with US Americans. It's not much of a topic with friends, family and acquaintances, neither here in Ireland nor back home in Germany.

*shrugs and gets on with her life
Meanwhile, as an American myself, I am far more concerned with terrorist acts committed BY Americans. Few of my fellow Americans seem interested in discussing this topic. :(

It is, lamentably, a social democracy, much like Britain.
The non-existence of poverty in Iceland is lamentable?

You must be pretty fortunate if you have not run into some of the extreme lefties in real life, who have very strong opinions on what the US should be like.
At least they're not under the influence of relativism.

And yet... Europeans on the whole seem less concerend with the issue. The only time I discuss terrorism is on NS, usually with US Americans. It's not much of a topic with friends, family and acquaintances, neither here in Ireland nor back home in Germany.

*shrugs and gets on with her life
Oh please...you think we sit around the dinner table and wash down our meals with a good dose of "Todays Terrorism"?

We dont talk about it. We see it on the news, or we discuss it in government class...but we dont just chat about Osama.:rolleyes:

Meanwhile, as an American myself, I am far more concerned with terrorist acts committed BY Americans. Few of my fellow Americans seem interested in discussing this topic. :(
Thats because few of us consider what YOU consider terrorism. Your views are far too left wing to be applicable to the norm of America...which is probably why nobody talks about them with you, your views that is.

Oh please...you think we sit around the dinner table and wash down our meals with a good dose of "Todays Terrorism"?

We dont talk about it. We see it on the news, or we discuss it in government class...but we dont just chat about Osama.:rolleyes:
I think maybe it depends on where you live/work, because the subject of the war and terrorism will come up on a regular basis in my household and in my workplace.

Open your eyes:

/snip

Here is my favorite:

"The changes to Denmarks immigration laws, have drawn some criticism from the Swedish government, United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees and the Council of Europe's human rights commissioner. In a response to the criticism from the Swedish government Pia Kjaersgaard said: "If they want to turn Stockholm, Gothenburg or Malmoe into a Scandinavian Beirut, with clan wars, honour killings and gang rapes, let them do it. We can always put a barrier on the Oeresund Bridge." [4]"

Denmark IS changing, whether you want to admit it or not.

You know how many votes Pia Kjaersgaard's party has? 13% The social-democrats have 29%.
What you don't understand is the system that has more than one party. Besides the basic system under which these parties operate is fundamentally different from the USA one. I grow tired of making this point again and again.



Right Wing governments HAVE taxes...NEWSFLASH! They just feel they need to be lower and placed on only the most important thing. Stoping non-Europeans from replacing Europeans IS a very important thing to Danes.

Yes they have taxes. Again, USA conservatives differ from european ones. In Scandinavia we have taxes that can pay for such programs as I mentioned in my previous post.
And you're right, racism is on the rise. You're confusing racism with politics.

I have been to school in three totally different states, in a religious and non-religious schools..and I have learned evolution. We havnt banned stem-cell research, and America does not have ONE view on global warming. Whaling? Isnt that illegal except for Eskimos? pollution? Look at Germany..in the heart of Europe before you look at us across the sea. "And such" doesnt count.

I know you've studied evolution. But isn't it true that the USA is one of the very few countries which has a serious debate over wether or not it should be tought.
As for the stem cells: There is not a ban on it literally, but surely you've heard of this? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/5193998.stm
Yes, in the USA native americans can hunt whales commercially. The result: USA is the biggest whaling nation in the world.

Germany is taking part in the kyoto protocol. Nuff said.

Yes, but dont be stupid. You cant keep out people who are already in...you need to integrate those into your soceity AND THEN limit immigrant so no more come in. DUH!:rolleyes:

The immigrant programs in the USA and Denmark are radically different from each other. Look it up. DUH! :rolleyes:

Thats because Europe values education more than America does right now, regardless of politics.

No, that's how things work in a social democracy. Look it up.


Uh..yeah, there are tons of people in our government who are not religious...again, what rock do you live under??!! Yes our government has made decisions not based on beleif tons of times...in fact, most things the government does has nothing to do with religion...like the economy, or immigration, or taxes, or war, or diplomatic relations with North Korea..ect.

I didn't say they had never made decisions not based on religion. I said that they had made decisions based on their religion. And they have. And it has influenced many of their decisions. After all, doesn't your president claim that god speaks to him?


Yes but in the sense of politics it means liberal...which is NOT the same thing as left in Europe, where this party is, only in America.
Uhm...No. It's the party that has changed, not the term. Which tells you where and how it started and where it roots lie. Congrats though on finally grasping the fact that things are different in America and Europe :)


Republcians and Democrats are both free-market in America. and I have no idea what McDonalds has to do with anything...:confused: Its a private company, nothing to do with our government.

And in Europe they're not. Your point?


Monarchist in any way is a Conservative tendancy.

As for eco-friendly, true..but as we are hardly describing American conservatives and we ARE describing Euro conservatives...its ok

Read up on the debate on monarchy in Britain, it's a confusing mess both left and right.

Whatever, I dont know enough about pensions to argue that with you, but I doubt you know about American pensions seeing as you've never been to the land your arguing about...and atleast I HAVE been to Scandinavia.

I looked it up to refresh my memory.
Yes, you've been there, but you obviously don't know the people and still seem amazingly ignorant of it.


Does America have troops on its borders? I'm almost positive we dont. And if I'm wrong and we do...it only recently happend but I dont think it happend.

Uhm...Do you watch the news at all? There are 6000 troops heading towards the US-Mexican border as we speak.

And one of the main things you dont understand is that the party listed the banning of those things in its stances...and recieved the majority of the votes. Which means the people liked their stances. Dont you see that?

Oy! It's a COALITION! Remember? Many parties! and...Ah...Nevermind...You're obviously hell-bent on knowing fuck-all.


Yes, but your right wing government didnt institute those things, your left wing political parties did...so all of the above means nothing to your arguement.

Yes it did. And it's right wing by OUR STANDARD! Which means that to you, it is indeed one of "our left wing political parties"

I'm pretty sure you dont know more about America than I do Europe..and atleast I've been to Europe, twice...you havnt even stepped foot on American soil yet you claim to know so much about us. I've met quite a few Europeans...so what?

Ah, yes, Europe the country. :rolleyes:
And I did not claim I knew "so much about you". I claim to know the differences between us, and I claim to know Europe, particularly Scandinavia. Seeing the little mermaid doesn't make you an expert on local politics.

And by the way, while we are closing the base, we are still leaving some military in Keflavik.;) "On March 15th, 2006, the United States Department of State announced the closing of the NATO base breaching the treaty it has had with the republic of 64 years. [2] "Effective October 2006, the NATO base will be reduced to little more than a few 'submarine talkers', with U.S. forces withdrawing their four F-15s, their helicopter squadron and the vast majority (but not all;) )of their personnel.":) Looks like ya didnt get rid of us yet. And as for the drug thing? I can make the same stereotypes about Europeans all wanting to rave to techno, do ecstacy, be metrosexual, and act like pussys...

Awesome googling skills d00d.
Base closing = Rid of you. A couple of people listening for cold-war relics is not a military-presence. Why are you even arguing this?

but I wont, I'll be the bigger man and admit thats its not a true stereotype.

Yes, with your nationality and all, it's quite likely that you're a much bigger man than me ;)

I think maybe it depends on where you live/work, because the subject of the war and terrorism will come up on a regular basis in my household and in my workplace.
Well, if you put it that way, than she has no arguement because that may happen to families in Denmark for all we know.

Thats because few of us consider what YOU consider terrorism. Your views are far too left wing to be applicable to the norm of America...which is probably why nobody talks about them with you, your views that is.
So the norm in America is that "it's OK for the US to commit the same atrocities as we condemn terrorists for"? Relativism.

Thats because few of us consider what YOU consider terrorism. Your views are far too left wing to be applicable to the norm of America...which is probably why nobody talks about them with you, your views that is.
Sadly, I think you're right. I consider bombing buildings and killing people in a deliberate attempt to instill terror qualifies as "terrorism," even if it's Americans bombing American buildings and killing Americans. I believe that the use of torture is terroristic in nature, even if Americans are the ones administering the torture. And most of my fellow Americans don't seem to agree.

So the norm in America is that "it's OK for the US to commit the same atrocities as we condemn terrorists for"?
The rule is that Americans cannot, by definition, be terrorists. America is AT WAR with Terror, and therefore we cannot possibly commit terrorist acts. Isn't it neat how that works out?

Oh please...you think we sit around the dinner table and wash down our meals with a good dose of "Todays Terrorism"?

We dont talk about it. We see it on the news, or we discuss it in government class...but we dont just chat about Osama.:rolleyes:

Let's put it this way : Almost all the threads about terrorism I've seen on here so far where opened by US Americans, who incidentally also form the largest part of posters in said threads.
I therefore assume that this is a topic that concerns you a great deal, and I can't find the same amount of fascination/obsession/fear of terrorism anywhere with my European friends and acquaintances.

Oh please...you think we sit around the dinner table and wash down our meals with a good dose of "Todays Terrorism"?

We dont talk about it. We see it on the news, or we discuss it in government class...but we dont just chat about Osama.:rolleyes:

Actually, yes, that's what I think.

Actually, yes, that's what I think.
Well that just shows how ignorant you are of real America...and works against you knowing what your talking about in our arguement.

Anyway, I have to go eat...and then I will work on my reply to your statement.

By the way, when you joked about me being American, did you mean to imply I'm small?

If you meant that, your wrong. When I was in Scandinavia...I fit in rather well, I'm between 6'3 almost 6'4 (around 192ish Euro) and have light blonde hair. So dont take cracks at my nationality if you dont know what you're talking about.

Well that just shows how ignorant you are of real America...and works against you knowing what your talking about in our arguement.

Anyway, I have to go eat...and then I will work on my reply to your statement.

By the way, when you joked about me being American, did you mean to imply I'm small?

If you meant that, your wrong. When I was in Scandinavia...I fit in rather well, I'm between 6'3 almost 6'4 (around 192ish Euro) and have light blonde hair. So dont take cracks at my nationality if you dont know what you're talking about.

No, fat.

If you meant that, your wrong. When I was in Scandinavia...I fit in rather well, I'm between 6'3 almost 6'4 (around 192ish Euro) and have light blonde hair.
I bet he's also totally ripped, and has a black belt.

I bet he's also totally ripped, and has a black belt.
Me or him? If your talking about me...sadly I'm not totally ripped..just atheltic.

And I dont have a black belt..I dont even know karate.

No, fat.
Oh, HAHAHAHAHHA.:D

Yes, we are a bit too fat, on the whole.

Though I'm not.:)

Me or him? If your talking about me...sadly I'm not totally ripped..just atheltic.

Isn't it funny how all the guys you meet on line are "tall and athletic"? It's like how all the girls are "buxom blondes."

Isn't it funny how all the guys you meet on line are "tall and athletic"? It's like how all the girls are "buxom blondes."
I have already posted my pictures, I'm not low enough a person to lie about my self over the internet.
lol...I swear.

If it makes you feel anybetter, my knees suck from basketball+growing pains.

But I dont really know what your talking about, cuz I dont meet many guys over the internet to talk about their physique.:p

"I don't get all choked up about yellow ribbons and American flags. I see them as symbols, and I leave them to the symbol-minded." -- George Carlin

Sounds like an excuse to me.

You know how many votes Pia Kjaersgaard's party has? 13% The social-democrats have 29%.
What you don't understand is the system that has more than one party. Besides the basic system under which these parties operate is fundamentally different from the USA one. I grow tired of making this point again and again.

"The DPP have been surrounded by controversy ever since the party was originally founded. However, starting with a modest amount of votes, the party has grown at every single election since then."

Its growing...with every election it grows..your not safe yet.

Yes they have taxes. Again, USA conservatives differ from european ones. In Scandinavia we have taxes that can pay for such programs as I mentioned in my previous post.
And you're right, racism is on the rise. You're confusing racism with politics.
I'm not confusing "racism" with politics because in right wing political parties..."racism" is, more often than not, tied into politics.
Anti-Immigration and anti-Muslim parties are called Racist in Europe. DK is a anti- immigration and anti-Muslim party...therefore I'm not confusing anything.."racism" and politics are tied together in this one.

I know you've studied evolution. But isn't it true that the USA is one of the very few countries which has a serious debate over wether or not it should be tought.
As for the stem cells: There is not a ban on it literally, but surely you've heard of this? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/5193998.stm
Yes, in the USA native americans can hunt whales commercially. The result: USA is the biggest whaling nation in the world.

Germany is taking part in the kyoto protocol. Nuff said.
In some areas we have a debate over whether or not it should be taught...but so what, in some areas of Europe they have serious debates over if absolute Communism should rule the countries? Basically, so what? Like I said, in both religious and public schools you learn Evolution.

"US President George W Bush has vetoed a controversial bill which would have lifted a ban on federal funding for new embryonic stem cell research." We are still funding stem cell research, he just vetoed a bill for more funding, thats all.

The biggest whaling nation in the world? Wheres your source? Doesnt Canada have all the problems with whaling..or seals or something?

Yes, Germany is "taking part" in the Kyoto, but it hasnt actually done anything to conform to the Kyoto. Look at this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/5126402.stm ..... "These figures are unbelievable, pathetically unambitious," said Regina Gunther from WWF Germany. "It is shameful that our environment minister has agreed to this." So...its obviously not "nuff said".

The immigrant programs in the USA and Denmark are radically different from each other. Look it up. DUH! :rolleyes:
...obviously, but its still the same principle.


I didn't say they had never made decisions not based on religion. I said that they had made decisions based on their religion. And they have. And it has influenced many of their decisions. After all, doesn't your president claim that god speaks to him?
The President is one man...what politician beside him make religion his politics?


Uhm...No. It's the party that has changed, not the term. Which tells you where and how it started and where it roots lie. Congrats though on finally grasping the fact that things are different in America and Europe :)

Yes, I know..I never claimed that the party didnt change, look: "After the 1960s it was reoriented as a more classical liberal party." And it doesnt matter where its roots lie, the Democrat and Republican parties both switched too, you know. This is a "classic liberal" party, which means libertarian...it isnt different from whats in America. They are reforming the Danish welfore state, the leader of the party, Anders Fogh Rasmussen, wrote the book From Social State to Minimal State which he has stated he is doing. " Rasmussen advocated an extensive reform of the Danish welfare state, along classical liberal lines, i.e. lower taxes, less government interference in corporate and individual matters, etc."


And in Europe they're not. Your point?
Your write wing parties are Free Market..thats what European liberalism or Classic liberalism MEANS. The only way they are not free market is if their are totally isolationist...like BNP (British National Party), I dont think they are free market, not positive, though.



Read up on the debate on monarchy in Britain, it's a confusing mess both left and right. No, Monarchism is Conservative, literally. Like Europa Maxima said, Monarchism is trying to conserve the past..the way things were because Monarchists think they were better that way. That is...in literally, Conservation...therefore, its a conservative idealogy.


I looked it up to refresh my memory.
Yes, you've been there, but you obviously don't know the people and still seem amazingly ignorant of it.
Ignorant of, what have I said, that you can quote me on, that has shown ignorance of the people in question????


Uhm...Do you watch the news at all? There are 6000 troops heading towards the US-Mexican border as we speak.
Ok, they were recently deployed..but you cant even protend like we dont need security on our border. We have, literally millions of illegal immigrants flooding in over our South Border.

Oy! It's a COALITION! Remember? Many parties! and...Ah...Nevermind...You're obviously hell-bent on knowing fuck-all.
Yes, I know its a coalition and that many parties represent the government...all I'm saying is that there is a large ammount of the population who ARE voting for the things we have been talking about...and those voters keep on growing.:)


Yes it did. And it's right wing by OUR STANDARD! Which means that to you, it is indeed one of "our left wing political parties"
Show me your source that your right wing government instituted those things...I have read that you usually had a left wing government who instituted scandinavian style-welfare state.

Ah, yes, Europe the country. :rolleyes:
And I did not claim I knew "so much about you". I claim to know the differences between us, and I claim to know Europe, particularly Scandinavia. Seeing the little mermaid doesn't make you an expert on local politics.
Oh, please...I said Europe because we are not only talking about one country.:rolleyes: No, seeing the little mermaid does not give you insights in the local politics, but talking to the Danes while your there DOES...and studying poltical science...and international politics ALSO does. One of the girls met in Danmark, told me that many people think the government is VERY Right Wing...one of, if not the most right wing in Europe. In her case, she was leaving for Canada because she didnt like how Denmark had become anti-immigrant and was reforming the welfare state.

Awesome googling skills d00d.
Base closing = Rid of you. A couple of people listening for cold-war relics is not a military-presence. Why are you even arguing this?
We are still leaving some military there. Anyway, why do you know want our base there? Is it just sheer anti-Americanism? We have provided Iceland protection for years....acting as the Icelandic Military...I dont know why you WANT to see us go.:rolleyes:

Yes, with your nationality and all, it's quite likely that you're a much bigger man than me ;)
Like I said before...By the way, when you joked about me being American, did you mean to imply I'm small?

If you meant that, your wrong. When I was in Scandinavia...I fit in rather well, I'm between 6'3 almost 6'4 (around 192ish Euro) and have light blonde hair. So dont take cracks at my nationality if you dont know what you're talking about.

And if you meant that I'm fat.....I'm not..I'm tall and athletic (thin). Again, dont take cracks at my nationality if you dont know what you're talking about.

I'll concur. Usually these same individuals think that Michael Moore's word on the US is Gospel.

Although in AI's defence, he is pretty clued up on European affairs, something I can especially discern from our chats. His positions may be extreme at times, but rarely borne of ignorance.
Awww, thanks Europa. :)

You're not too stupid yourself.:p

"The DPP have been surrounded by controversy ever since the party was originally founded. However, starting with a modest amount of votes, the party has grown at every single election since then."

Its growing...with every election it grows..your not safe yet.

It's growing, but it will never get the majority of voters. In Danish politics, things change fast. This only illustrates that fact.

I'm not confusing "racism" with politics because in right wing political parties..."racism" is, more often than not, tied into politics.
Anti-Immigration and anti-Muslim parties are called Racist in Europe. DK is a anti- immigration and anti-Muslim party...therefore I'm not confusing anything.."racism" and politics are tied together in this one.

Fear and dislike of muslims is the only reason people voted for them. It's racism.

In some areas we have a debate over whether or not it should be taught...but so what, in some areas of Europe they have serious debates over if absolute Communism should rule the countries? Basically, so what? Like I said, in both religious and public schools you learn Evolution.

Source on the communist debate please? I remind you, Russia is not europe.
Anyway, we're not debating communism vs. religious-nuttery, are we?

"US President George W Bush has vetoed a controversial bill which would have lifted a ban on federal funding for new embryonic stem cell research." We are still funding stem cell research, he just vetoed a bill for more funding, thats all.

Which stops it dead in it's tracks.

The biggest whaling nation in the world? Wheres your source? Doesnt Canada have all the problems with whaling..or seals or something?

Sorry, my source was bad. But the USA is still a major player in whaling. 50 bowhead whales a year. We hunt 39 minke whales a year, which is not rare or endangered at all. Yet we have to listen to your idiot president say he's concerned about "iceland's whaling".

Yes, Germany is "taking part" in the Kyoto, but it hasnt actually done anything to conform to the Kyoto. Look at this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/5126402.stm ..... "These figures are unbelievable, pathetically unambitious," said Regina Gunther from WWF Germany. "It is shameful that our environment minister has agreed to this." So...its obviously not "nuff said".

It's still a commitment and they still pay fines for not conforming. Anyway, despite being arseholes about it, it's still 100% more than the USA has done.


...obviously, but its still the same principle.

No it isn't. Restrictions and lower benefits aren't the same thing as troops on the borders.

The President is one man...what politician beside him make religion his politics?

Uhm...You don't watch the telly or read the papers? ALL OF THEM. Anyone claiming that religion isn't a huge factor in American politics is simply wrong.

To name a couple:

For example one of your most famous nutters , John Ashcroft. You remember this, don't you?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1788845.stm

Conoleeza Rice has stated that she is a "deeply religious person" and in a newspaper interview she said: "When I'm concerned about something, I figure out a plan of action, and then I give it to God"

Colin Powell claims to be religious (along with having the standard spiritual upbringing and christian education like everyone touched by Bush). He is pro-choice, If you read up on his reasoning he quotes the bible and talks an awful lot about "the lords will"...etc
That sort of thing wouldn't fly anywhere else.

Donald Rumsfeld appointed a general who described the war in afghanistan as a war between "good vs. satan". It goes without saying he claims to be "deeply religious" yadda yadda christian upbringing...etc

Dick Cheney is another "god-fearing" one...

It's pretty obvious their stand against abortion, gay-marriage, stem cell research etc. is for religious reasons.

Yes, I know..I never claimed that the party didnt change, look: "After the 1960s it was reoriented as a more classical liberal party." And it doesnt matter where its roots lie, the Democrat and Republican parties both switched too, you know. This is a "classic liberal" party, which means libertarian...it isnt different from whats in America. They are reforming the Danish welfore state, the leader of the party, Anders Fogh Rasmussen, wrote the book From Social State to Minimal State which he has stated he is doing. " Rasmussen advocated an extensive reform of the Danish welfare state, along classical liberal lines, i.e. lower taxes, less government interference in corporate and individual matters, etc."

Ah, but they just aren't anything like the USA republican party. They don't have the backing of people for religious reasons. They don't oppose stuff like gay marriage, gun-control, abortion and about a thousand other things.
As I stated before: Rightwing, yes. American-style rightwing, no.

Your write wing parties are Free Market..thats what European liberalism or Classic liberalism MEANS. The only way they are not free market is if their are totally isolationist...like BNP (British National Party), I dont think they are free market, not positive, though.

Free market, yes. However:
Have a look at production taxes, import export taxes and government support of farms, production and the industry. It isn't the same.

No, Monarchism is Conservative, literally. Like Europa Maxima said, Monarchism is trying to conserve the past..the way things were because Monarchists think they were better that way. That is...in literally, Conservation...therefore, its a conservative idealogy.

By that definition, Russians who miss communism are conservatives.

Ignorant of, what have I said, that you can quote me on, that has shown ignorance of the people in question????

For one thing, claiming that the dutch and danish people are at heart rightwing conservatives is ignorance in it's raw form.

Ok, they were recently deployed..but you cant even protend like we dont need security on our border. We have, literally millions of illegal immigrants flooding in over our South Border.
...and you have troops on your border. You asked for a source.

Yes, I know its a coalition and that many parties represent the government...all I'm saying is that there is a large ammount of the population who ARE voting for the things we have been talking about...and those voters keep on growing.:)

Not large, 12-13% Show me a nation that isn't 10% wankers and I'll show you a new breed of humans.

Show me your source that your right wing government instituted those things...I have read that you usually had a left wing government who instituted scandinavian style-welfare state.

My sources are in Icelandic. I'm afraid I'm going to have trouble with this one.
But there are many indications I can point out to you. This party has been in charge for years (and that's alot considering the fact that Iceland has only been independant since 1944). Yet we are second only to the swedes when it comes to taxes, and we are still considered part of "socialist scandinavia".
Have a look at : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independence_Party_%28Iceland%29 and bear in mind that this is the most rightwing party we've got (there's also loads of links there in english).

Oh, please...I said Europe because we are not only talking about one country.:rolleyes: No, seeing the little mermaid does not give you insights in the local politics, but talking to the Danes while your there DOES...and studying poltical science...and international politics ALSO does. One of the girls met in Danmark, told me that many people think the government is VERY Right Wing...one of, if not the most right wing in Europe. In her case, she was leaving for Canada because she didnt like how Denmark had become anti-immigrant and was reforming the welfare state.
That should indicate how much the danes love the government. Again, these parties are not the "hearts and minds" of danes. It's just a matter of waiting it out. Politics in this system shift quickly and parties come and go all the time. And it's true, many people do think the government is very right-wing. But it's still nothing compared to USA-style conservatism.

We are still leaving some military there. Anyway, why do you know want our base there? Is it just sheer anti-Americanism? We have provided Iceland protection for years....acting as the Icelandic Military...I dont know why you WANT to see us go.:rolleyes:

Nobody likes a foreign army in their land. It was never a matter of "protection" (the British did that in ww2 before handing matters over to the USA) but a matter of strategic advantage for the USA in the north-atlantic during the cold war.
A military base is a target, nobody has any reason to attack us except for the fact that we house americans.
There is also the matter of conduct here in the north-atlantic. Look up the "Thule" nuclear base in greenland and read about how the natives were treated there, the place is still an uninhabitable radiation-polluted shithole and the "relocated-by-force" natives can't move back there. We still have lost nuclear-bombs and random pockets of radiation all over the greenland glacier. All thanks to you guys.

Like I said before...By the way, when you joked about me being American, did you mean to imply I'm small?

If you meant that, your wrong. When I was in Scandinavia...I fit in rather well, I'm between 6'3 almost 6'4 (around 192ish Euro) and have light blonde hair. So dont take cracks at my nationality if you dont know what you're talking about.

And if you meant that I'm fat.....I'm not..I'm tall and athletic (thin). Again, dont take cracks at my nationality if you dont know what you're talking about.
Nah, don't take it seriously, it was a fat-joke. In fact, your description sounds like you look more "scandinavian" than I do (and thanks to project decode I can trace my family back to one of the first settlers in iceland).

Like I said, addressing these people's grievances is surrender. We should never make them think that their tactics are getting them anywhere. Particularly when we could get a very good result by ridding our country of islam entirely.

I live in Dearborn, MI one of the largest concentrations of muslims in the United States. The apartment complex I live in is, I would reckon 90% muslim there is an egyptian man who is a muslim in the apartment above mine who I know to be in posession of a 12-gauge shotgun. Now if all 1,200,000,000 muslims in the world were terrorists hell-bent on killing all the infidels like me you would think i would be dead by now would't I?

I have one question for you:
Have you ever personally met a muslim?

I have one question for you:
Have you ever personally met a muslim?
I never said that all muslims are terrorists so don't put words into my mouth. There are other reasons that I hate them. As for the question, I've met plenty. I spent most of my life in a Burnley, a northern town with one of the highest proportions of muslims in the country. I saw first hand the way they ruined the town.

I never said that all muslims are terrorists so don't put words into my mouth. There are other reasons that I hate them. As for the question, I've met plenty. I spent most of my life in a Burnley, a northern town with one of the highest proportions of muslims in the country. I saw first hand the way they ruined the town.

How do you know it wasn't you British/English/Whatever folk who 'ruined the town?' I think you just made them a scapegoat. Some town gets "ruined" (whatever that means) and so now you hate all 1.5 billion Muslims on the planet.

That's not a "reason," anymore than it would be reasonable for me to hate all British people just because of some bigot like yourself (and the way you ruin the forum!)

How do you know it wasn't you British/English/Whatever folk who 'ruined the town?' I think you just made them a scapegoat. Some town gets "ruined" (whatever that means) and so now you hate all 1.5 billion Muslims on the planet.

That's not a "reason," anymore than it would be reasonable for me to hate all British people just because of some bigot like yourself (and the way you ruin the forum!)
By ruin, I mean the way they bring down an area. Try living in the town I lived in and you'd see what I mean. I'm not saying non-musliums aren't criminals, but the muslims in the town were responsible for the vast majority of crimes. There were gangs of them roaming the streets, dealing drugs and beating people up for no reason. Even the 'law abiding' ones were undesireables, each and every one of them was responsible for turning areas of the town into something that looked more like Pakistan than England. That's what I mean by ruining a town.

By ruin, I mean the way they bring down an area. Try living in the town I lived in and you'd see what I mean. I'm not saying non-musliums aren't criminals, but the muslims in the town were responsible for the vast majority of crimes. There were gangs of them roaming the streets, dealing drugs and beating people up for no reason. Even the 'law abiding' ones were undesireables, each and every one of them was responsible for turning areas of the town into something that looked more like Pakistan than England. That's what I mean by ruining a town.

As I said, that's not a reason. There is no reason to hate people based on ethnicity or religion.

You're not any different from people who look at gangs in L.A and hate all blacks, latinos or any other minority. "Oh, look how they stick together... commit crimes... how undesirable... trying to turn California into Mexico/Africa!"

Continue to justify all you like, but it's pretty damn weak.

I never said that all muslims are terrorists so don't put words into my mouth. There are other reasons that I hate them. As for the question, I've met plenty. I spent most of my life in a Burnley, a northern town with one of the highest proportions of muslims in the country. I saw first hand the way they ruined the town.

The only people that can ruin a society are racist bigots like you

By ruin, I mean the way they bring down an area. Try living in the town I lived in and you'd see what I mean. I'm not saying non-musliums aren't criminals, but the muslims in the town were responsible for the vast majority of crimes. There were gangs of them roaming the streets, dealing drugs and beating people up for no reason. Even the 'law abiding' ones were undesireables, each and every one of them was responsible for turning areas of the town into something that looked more like Pakistan than England. That's what I mean by ruining a town.

yea, the same things been said in America about Irishman, Jews, Russians, Italians, Poles, all Catholics in general, Germans, Chinese, Japanese, Blacks, Mexicans, and every other race/ethnicity thats ever made a large emigration to a foreign land

in my eyes you people are no different than the Ku Klux Klan or the Know-Nothing Party

yea, the same things been said in America about Irishman, Jews, Russians, Italians, Poles, all Catholics in general, Germans, Chinese, Japanese, Blacks, Mexicans, and every other race/ethnicity thats ever made a large emigration to a foreign land

in my eyes you people are no different than the Ku Klux Klan or the Know-Nothing Party


Well, let's take a good look at the native americans who were nice, welcoming and supportive of the newly immigrating Pilgrim Fathers.

Take a good look. Darn! I can't see 'em. I wonder why.

Is it maybe - just maybe - because large bodies of immigrants are usually up to no good?

Maybe it is common sense to treat ALL large bodies of immigrants as clear and present dangers?

http://www.freesmileys.org/emo/happy051.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org) http://www.freesmileys.org/emo/happy051.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org) http://www.freesmileys.org/emo/happy051.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org) http://www.freesmileys.org/emo/happy051.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)
I dunno, Fass, you're definately all terrorist from where I stand. :D

Well, let's take a good look at the native americans who were nice, welcoming and supportive of the newly immigrating Pilgrim Fathers.

Take a good look. Darn! I can't see 'em. I wonder why.

Is it maybe - just maybe - because large bodies of immigrants are usually up to no good?

No.

Europeans were not there to "immigrate" into "native American nations." They were there to COLONIZE on behalf of European Colonial Empires.

Not to mention, Europeans were far more advanced technologically than the natives.

You're not being pillaged and conquered by foreign superpowers. If you wanted to kick all immigrants out - hell, if you wanted to put them into gas ovens and cook them - you could do that. Think the native americans had that kind of power? No. Your analogy fails so miserably I wonder how you can possibly make it with a straight face.

It's growing, but it will never get the majority of voters. In Danish politics, things change fast. This only illustrates that fact.
Wiki, seems to disagree, when it states that. "starting with a modest amount of votes, the party has grown at every single election since then". I think this is one of those things where only time will tell.

Fear and dislike of muslims is the only reason people voted for them. It's racism.
Well, if they are getting enough votes because of their Anti-Muslim stance, maybe there is a good reason behind it?
Anyway, its not only that that gets the DK votes, look at this:"Pia Kjærsgaard ggives her a powerful appeal to those disenchanted with Danish politics. Combined with the DPP's populist policies, this has given her strong support amongst working-class and lower-middle class voters, and those who feel removed from the elitist political classes".
Anyway, this might not be Denmark but it sure as hell is relevant to what we are talking about. Maybe this highlights some of the reasons why these types of parties and ideas are gaining power. http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2006/05/new-york-times-and-sweden-dark-side-of.html

Source on the communist debate please? I remind you, Russia is not europe.
Anyway, we're not debating communism vs. religious-nuttery, are we?
Many consider Russia to be in Europe, but anyway, this list of actual communist parties...which you can find ALL over Europe prove my point. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Communist_parties#Modern
To say there arnt still debates about Communism...is, OBVIOUSLY false.

Which stops it dead in it's tracks.
No, the funding will still go like it was before..there just wont be INCREASED funding..for the time being.


It's still a commitment and they still pay fines for not conforming. Anyway, despite being arseholes about it, it's still 100% more than the USA has done.
What good is a commitment if you do nothing to show for it. Look at it this way, America isnt lying and saying, "Sure! Well conform to your economically weakening idea"...and then doing the opposite, no We are doing what is best for ourselves, like Germany, but unlike Germany, we dont hide it.


No it isn't. Restrictions and lower benefits aren't the same thing as troops on the borders.
Oh please, you cant even compare Denmarks illegal immigration crisis with Americas.

Uhm...You don't watch the telly or read the papers? ALL OF THEM. Anyone claiming that religion isn't a huge factor in American politics is simply wrong.

To name a couple:

For example one of your most famous nutters , John Ashcroft. You remember this, don't you?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1788845.stm

Conoleeza Rice has stated that she is a "deeply religious person" and in a newspaper interview she said: "When I'm concerned about something, I figure out a plan of action, and then I give it to God"

Colin Powell claims to be religious (along with having the standard spiritual upbringing and christian education like everyone touched by Bush). He is pro-choice, If you read up on his reasoning he quotes the bible and talks an awful lot about "the lords will"...etc
That sort of thing wouldn't fly anywhere else.

Donald Rumsfeld appointed a general who described the war in afghanistan as a war between "good vs. satan". It goes without saying he claims to be "deeply religious" yadda yadda christian upbringing...etc

Dick Cheney is another "god-fearing" one...

It's pretty obvious their stand against abortion, gay-marriage, stem cell research etc. is for religious reasons.

Please, just because your religious doesnt mean you make your religion your politics. Making religion and politics one happens only in theocracies, not in officially secular governemnts, regardless of how religious the people are.

Ah, but they just aren't anything like the USA republican party. They don't have the backing of people for religious reasons. They don't oppose stuff like gay marriage, gun-control, abortion and about a thousand other things.
As I stated before: Rightwing, yes. American-style rightwing, no.
Maybe not in Danmark, but in Switzerland they sure do. The SVP, has the backing of the religious, and favours traditioanl marriage, HIGHLY opposes gun-control....ect. It is a very popular Swiss party, look it up on wiki.
Also, I looked it up and some of the Right Wing parties in Denmark and Holland DO oppose gay marriage.

Free market, yes. However:
Have a look at production taxes, import export taxes and government support of farms, production and the industry. It isn't the same.
Please, no major government is pure free market...all Conservative governemnts have some protectionist policies instituded, we arnt talking about Anarcho-Capitalist here.


By that definition, Russians who miss communism are conservatives.
Well, in essence, 'Left Wing-Conservatives'. Because they want to Conserve a left wing idea, but Monarchism is a right wing idea so you'd be a right wing Conservative to miss it and want to renforce it.:)


For one thing, claiming that the dutch and danish people are at heart rightwing conservatives is ignorance in it's raw form.
I never said that, all I said was that they are inceasingly voting right wing...the stats back me up.


Not large, 12-13% Show me a nation that isn't 10% wankers and I'll show you a new breed of humans.
The SVP (very right wing most right wing party in Switzerland) holds 25% of the vote for the parlament.
The Christen-Democratisch Appèl in Holland holds 28.6% of the votes...it is in first place.

That should indicate how much the danes love the government. Again, these parties are not the "hearts and minds" of danes. It's just a matter of waiting it out. Politics in this system shift quickly and parties come and go all the time. And it's true, many people do think the government is very right-wing. But it's still nothing compared to USA-style conservatism.
Please, just because this very hot blonde Dane didnt like the government doesnt mean all Danes dont like it. Dont jump to conclusions. Anyway, we will wait and see if Denmark remains right wing. And I dont know why you keep comparing it to America, I know its not as right wing as us but it is STILL right wing.

Nobody likes a foreign army in their land. It was never a matter of "protection" (the British did that in ww2 before handing matters over to the USA) but a matter of strategic advantage for the USA in the north-atlantic during the cold war.
A military base is a target, nobody has any reason to attack us except for the fact that we house americans.
There is also the matter of conduct here in the north-atlantic. Look up the "Thule" nuclear base in greenland and read about how the natives were treated there, the place is still an uninhabitable radiation-polluted shithole and the "relocated-by-force" natives can't move back there. We still have lost nuclear-bombs and random pockets of radiation all over the greenland glacier. All thanks to you guys.

It is ALSO about defense, as the CIA report says, "defense is provided by the US-manned Icelandic Defense Force (IDF) headquartered at Keflavik".
And please, that "nobody has reason to attack us except for the fact that we house Americans" is just lame...and was disproved to the people in the Scandinavian embassies during the Danish cartoon riots...among other things. I dont know anything about any Thule nuclear base in Greenland, only a Thule Air base near Qaanaag (sp)...and where are these random pockets of radiation and lost bombs in Greenland, I've never heard of them. Once again, source?

Nah, don't take it seriously, it was a fat-joke. In fact, your description sounds like you look more "scandinavian" than I do (and thanks to project decode I can trace my family back to one of the first settlers in iceland).
Oh, well in that case carry on, I'll make fun of how fat Americans are with you, I think its pathetic. As for looking Scandinavian, people generally assume I'm Swedish or Norwegian...but I am far too much of an American nationalist to want to be anything but an American. (except maybe Swiss)

Wiki, seems to disagree, when it states that. "starting with a modest amount of votes, the party has grown at every single election since then". I think this is one of those things where only time will tell.

Yes, time will tell. It's been growing. But I assure you, the majority of Danes aren't racists.

Well, if they are getting enough votes because of their Anti-Muslim stance, maybe there is a good reason behind it?
Anyway, its not only that that gets the DK votes, look at this:"Pia Kjærsgaard ggives her a powerful appeal to those disenchanted with Danish politics. Combined with the DPP's populist policies, this has given her strong support amongst working-class and lower-middle class voters, and those who feel removed from the elitist political classes".
Anyway, this might not be Denmark but it sure as hell is relevant to what we are talking about. Maybe this highlights some of the reasons why these types of parties and ideas are gaining power. http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2006/05/new-york-times-and-sweden-dark-side-of.html

Ah, a good reason for racism. :rolleyes: I'd rather not go there.


Many consider Russia to be in Europe, but anyway, this list of actual communist parties...which you can find ALL over Europe prove my point. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Communist_parties#Modern
To say there arnt still debates about Communism...is, OBVIOUSLY false.


Again, this line of debate is useless because:

1. Russia just isn't europe

2. If you think Communism in europe is a force to be reconed with, you're mistaken. Period.

Every country has a communist party. Even the USA has a communist party. Majority of people realize that if communism worked they wouldn't have needed a big wall with barb-wire to keep people in. And nobody knows this better than those who grew up around the "iron curtain".

No, the funding will still go like it was before..there just wont be INCREASED funding..for the time being.

Ok, you're right on this one. I read up on it some more, it turns out he's making the enviroment for science hostile, but not really outlawing it. I still don't see the point of it though.



What good is a commitment if you do nothing to show for it. Look at it this way, America isnt lying and saying, "Sure! Well conform to your economically weakening idea"...and then doing the opposite, no We are doing what is best for ourselves, like Germany, but unlike Germany, we dont hide it.

Ah, yes. "Honest" USA...
Actually, come to think of it, this statement of yours that Germany is not complying is utter bullshit. They still have untill 2012 and they have made it their law.

Oh please, you cant even compare Denmarks illegal immigration crisis with Americas.

And yet... That's exactly what I'm doing. Crazy, huh?


Please, just because your religious doesnt mean you make your religion your politics. Making religion and politics one happens only in theocracies, not in officially secular governemnts, regardless of how religious the people are.

So, basically, you're denying that religion plays any part in american politics?


Maybe not in Danmark, but in Switzerland they sure do. The SVP, has the backing of the religious, and favours traditioanl marriage, HIGHLY opposes gun-control....ect. It is a very popular Swiss party, look it up on wiki.
Also, I looked it up and some of the Right Wing parties in Denmark and Holland DO oppose gay marriage.

Nope, not even in Switzerland. One major difference is the fact that Switzerland opposes war. In conflict it's permanently neutral and it wasn't part of the "coalition of the willing" shambles.


Please, no major government is pure free market...all Conservative governemnts have some protectionist policies instituded, we arnt talking about Anarcho-Capitalist here.

No we aren't, but my point still stands: It's just not the same.

Well, in essence, 'Left Wing-Conservatives'. Because they want to Conserve a left wing idea, but Monarchism is a right wing idea so you'd be a right wing Conservative to miss it and want to renforce it.:)

Or a feudalist. Anyway, monarchy is pretty much irrelevant to modern-politics.

I never said that, all I said was that they are inceasingly voting right wing...the stats back me up.

The SVP (very right wing most right wing party in Switzerland) holds 25% of the vote for the parlament.
The Christen-Democratisch Appèl in Holland holds 28.6% of the votes...it is in first place.

And my point was that european right-wing isn't the same as american right-wing. If it was, europeans wouldn't go for it. That's what sparked this entire debate, wasn't it?

Please, just because this very hot blonde Dane didnt like the government doesnt mean all Danes dont like it. Dont jump to conclusions. Anyway, we will wait and see if Denmark remains right wing. And I dont know why you keep comparing it to America, I know its not as right wing as us but it is STILL right wing.

Not jumping to conclusions. Merely agreeing with what she said (many people don't like it)

And yes, we are in agreement. It's rightwing, but not as rightwing as you guys. In fact, that was my entire point. Also, right wing euro style isn't the same as right wing american style.

It is ALSO about defense, as the CIA report says, "defense is provided by the US-manned Icelandic Defense Force (IDF) headquartered at Keflavik".
And please, that "nobody has reason to attack us except for the fact that we house Americans" is just lame...and was disproved to the people in the Scandinavian embassies during the Danish cartoon riots...among other things.

No, it isn't. A number of small countries don't have armies, nor do they need the USA to defend them from some vague made-up threat. Read up on the matter instead of going to the CIA world factbook. The last time Iceland needed defending was during WW2.


I dont know anything about any Thule nuclear base in Greenland, only a Thule Air base near Qaanaag (sp)

http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/travel/dg/maps/4c/750x750_greenland_m.gif

Here is a map of Greenland. Your task: Find Quaanaag. (Hint: It's near the brackets containing the word "Thule" )

...and where are these random pockets of radiation and lost bombs in Greenland, I've never heard of them. Once again, source?

I'm not sure you've heard of Greenland either.

Here are a couple of sources on the bigger incidents for starters, if you want more on those or the smaller incidents, you'll just have to google for them yourself:
http://www.risoe.dk/rispubl/nuk/ris-r-1549.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines/081300-01.htm
http://www.cdi.org/Issues/NukeAccidents/accidents.htm (The biggest incidents, 4 bombs broken up in a crash and scattered, is on there)
http://cndyorks.gn.apc.org/yspace/articles/bmd/radioactivedanger.htm
http://openweb.tvnews.vanderbilt.edu/1988-1/1988-01-21-CBS-7.html

All of these occured after the USA signed an agreement with Denmark promising not to store nuclear weapons in Denmark and Greenland.

Oh, well in that case carry on, I'll make fun of how fat Americans are with you, I think its pathetic. As for looking Scandinavian, people generally assume I'm Swedish or Norwegian...but I am far too much of an American nationalist to want to be anything but an American. (except maybe Swiss)

So you're a nationalist. That explains a whole lot. But if you'd get a Swiss passport, wouldn't you miss the wars and the invading?