NationStates Jolt Archive

Recently I've been looking at the feasibility of takeing the wind turbine idea (either the blade or the scoopt kind) and making it almost miniature in size. I'm thinking roughly the shape of a 2" x 4" rectangular prism or a 2" cube.

I understand (almost) how to make a mini scoop version, but am unsure of how to design a mini blade version. What would be more efficient, more mini blades or one large one?

The entire point is to create a miniature wind turbine generator that can be attached to your laptop's fan output area. Then you route the output straight into the battery, thereby either extending life or creating infinite battery life.

(On a side note, the wind generator in front of a fan also goes with my idea of perpetual motion: start the fan, which feeds the turbine, which feeds the fan, in a loop of electrical power that could not end once started. Keep putting in energy and it never runs out. In a way the fan creates its own self-sustaining energy. This would be useful in laptop batteries)

Thoughts?

Friction= loss of power as heat= no perpetual motion.

I think the laptop is going to get hot.

I think the laptop is going to get hot.
That's from all the porn you download.

And the fact you bought the laptop from a guy who was selling them out of his car;)

I think the laptop is going to get hot.
How? If the fan output is simply spinning the wind turbine, how does that reheat the laptop?

Friction= loss of power as heat= no perpetual motion.

shut up. :p its not real perpetual motion, but still. . . . .wouldnt the wind turbine feed the fan, and vice versa?

How? If the fan output is simply spinning the wind turbine, how does that reheat the laptop?
It'll slow down the airflow.



shut up. :p its not real perpetual motion, but still. . . . .wouldnt the wind turbine feed the fan, and vice versa?
If you had a high efficiency set up, for a while yes, but IIRC rechargible batteries don't like being fed power while they're close to full, it reduces their life, and since there is no WAY you could get it to run off this alone that kills your idea unless you think up a deul battery system. Assuming I'm right that is.

How? If the fan output is simply spinning the wind turbine, how does that reheat the laptop?



shut up. :p its not real perpetual motion, but still. . . . .wouldnt the wind turbine feed the fan, and vice versa?
No. You're losing most of your energy as heat (hence the need for the fan). At best you'd get back the energy you put into to run the fan, which is marginal compared to the energy used to actually power the damn computer. Even then the second law puts an end to that pretty quick.

It'll slow down the airflow.
Ah. Hadnt thought of that. But if the turbine is on the outside of the laptop case (or close enough), doesnt that only slow the airflow on the extremity of the process, and nothe key internal aspect?
If you had a high efficiency set up, for a while yes, but IIRC rechargible batteries don't like being fed power while they're close to full, it reduces their life, and since there is no WAY you could get it to run off this alone that kills your idea unless you think up a deul battery system. Assuming I'm right that is.
So, theoretically, if rechargable batteries deteriorate with input at already full levels, a switching system would be needed between two or even three batteries (depending on speed of recharge). After battery A is burned, the other battery 'B' takes over. Then the fan begins to recharge battery A as battery B burns. This continues. The problem is setting a detector on battery strength and determining whether to either keep the turbine running and storing energy in another battery until needed or just not running until it is neede to recharge the backup battery.

That's from all the porn you download.
No, that just makes the keys sticky for some reason.

And the fact you bought the laptop from a guy who was selling them out of his car;)
But it's an authentic Magnafox!

Ah. Hadnt thought of that. But if the turbine is on the outside of the laptop case (or close enough), doesnt that only slow the airflow on the extremity of the process, and nothe key internal aspect?

No. Conservation of energy. If the internal fan exerts X energy to move the air to Y MPH, then the external fan can get back -X joules of energy by stopping the air, and only that. Assuming the system is perfect. Coming down from the ivory tower, at best you're looking at a 1% efficiency if you halt the air, meaning that you'll get back .01X joules of energy and still have a ton of hot air around.

No. Conservation of energy. If the internal fan exerts X energy to move the air to Y MPH, then the external fan can get back -X joules of energy by stopping the air, and only that. Assuming the system is perfect. Coming down from the ivory tower, at best you're looking at a 1% efficiency if you halt the air, meaning that you'll get back .01X joules of energy and still have a ton of hot air around.
Right, the math part I hadnt thought about.

Damn, and I though the problem would be mostly in miniaturization.

Right, the math part I hadnt thought about.

Damn, and I though the problem would be mostly in miniaturization.
And as I said earlier, you'd only get back the energy used to power the fan, nothing else. More interesting would a heat engine hooked up to the processor...

Ah. Hadnt thought of that. But if the turbine is on the outside of the laptop case (or close enough), doesnt that only slow the airflow on the extremity of the process, and nothe key internal aspect?
It slows everywhere.

So, theoretically, if rechargable batteries deteriorate with input at already full levels, a switching system would be needed between two or even three batteries (depending on speed of recharge). After battery A is burned, the other battery 'B' takes over. Then the fan begins to recharge battery A as battery B burns. This continues. The problem is setting a detector on battery strength and determining whether to either keep the turbine running and storing energy in another battery until needed or just not running until it is neede to recharge the backup battery.
You would be using battery B to power the computer and charge battery A. This means that you'll get a much shorter charge in battery A (after all, a lot of energy went into powering computer and the fan, not to mention that you still have to overcome the friction in the second fan), which would then need to power the computer and charge battery B, which would have a much lower charge still. And who wants to carry two batteries anyway?

Y'know, there's a reason scientists who claim to have created "infinite energy machines" are roundly mocked by their peers :)

The core problem seems (at least to obvious idiot me :) ) that the fan cannot put enough energy out to run the system. The efficiency is nowhere near optimal and iits impossible to get that much output.

Thanks anyway. :D

They keep trying to subvert physics, but physics keeps popping back up.

Perpetual motion = impossible.

"But why can't we make a clean machine
That move perpetually
'Cause there's another law with which
All energy must agree:
Energy, when it changes form
It loses quality (in other words)
Damn that rising entropy!

It's entropy, you see, that turns finesse into mess
A palace to a pig-sty, why it's simply scandalous
And energy lost that way degenrates into waste heat
(We must repeat)
Because of en--tro--py!"

-- from "Entropy" by Moxy Fruvous from The B Album

Now, this isn't perpetual motion, but it's got to be useful.

You eat food, and produce gas, which is mostly methane.

Have a tube permanently put in your anus to trap the gas and separate the gas from the other nasty bits.

Use the gas to run a small gas turbine once enough gas has accumulated.

Put one on every cow...

Use the gas to run a small gas turbine once enough gas has accumulated.

Put one on every cow...
I have an uncle who could power a small town all by himself.