NationStates Jolt Archive

Lets say India and China go to war tomorrow what do you think the outcome will be?

I would say that it would depend entirely on who Russia supports (though not actually getting involved because Russia cannot afford to fight either country) this will most likely be India because Russia has serious concerns over Chinas dreams of retaking the Russian far east. The same story would be the case for much of the far east as China currently has no allies in the region only nations who are constantly vigilant of a growing superpower

So I’m gambling on India being a victor (though of course I wouldn’t be much of a victory) though at the start China will almost certainly have an advantage in terms of military might and India will have a far harder time capturing Chinese territory but if India manages to hang on eventually India will turn the initial tide with arms supplied by other nations.

If I were the Russians, I'd wait until China invaded India, then head into China. I'm not sure they could manage a war like that.

I'd bank on India, solely because of diplomatic ties. See, if China just decided that they wanted India, they'd really have their hands full in an international war. As big as China is, their army still isn't that big (or that advanced).

China wouldn't be able to defend itself against India, the U.K., the U.S., and Australia (I'm guessing they'd be in it, too).

If I were the Russians, I'd wait until China invaded India, then head into China. I'm not sure they could manage a war like that.

I doubt Russia could even defend its own territory in the far east after all the only thing Russia really has going for it nowadays is its Nuclear weapons and its unlikely to risk nuclear war for Mongolia or Siberia

If China and India went to war, which will never ever happen, China would overrun India easily. No contest.

If China and India went to war, which will never ever happen, China would overrun India easily. No contest.

what makes you say that?

There is little doubt in my mind that Russia would stay neutral. Why potentially lose customers? It would much rather allow the conflict to go, selling equipment to both sides, and once one side won, have a more powerful customer to sell more equipment to.

Russia would have little to gain by taking sides here.

The United states wouldn't get involved. Its sure as hell not going to side with china, yet it couldn't afford going to war with the chinese. It would collapse the economy. Both nations economies, but the US isn't willing to make that trade.

Most likely, it would be china and pakistan versus india. Heavy non-combatant support would likely be given to india, especially from europe, and possibly ADA help from france, in the form of "Volunteers".

Who would win? Depends on how fast china could mobilize, and supply its troops. India could win a prolonged war, by virtue of its airforce... But heavy, quick strikes against the indians could take out a huge chunk of their abilities, allowing the sino-pakistani forces to take the rest of india out at their set pace.

what makes you say that?

China's military is much larger, more professional, and better equipped. They have a 7 million man standing army, and a 15 million man reserve force (National Guard, if you will). Their Type 99 tanks are pretty tough too.


India wouldn't stand a chance.


Though as previously stated, India does have a badass airforce. It kicked the US's ass when we did a wargame against them. (And I was pissed about that too!)

I doubt Russia could even defend its own territory in the far east after all the only thing Russia really has going for it nowadays is its Nuclear weapons and its unlikely to risk nuclear war for Mongolia or Siberia

Err... Russia is still plenty powerful. Power projection, not much to speak of, but no military in the world could beat it on its own land. The US might be able to capture a good half or so of siberia, before slowly getting pushed out. Other than that, no nation in the world could even get that far.

It has lost alot of its power, but it still has large numbers of decent stuff. Thats all it really needs, for protecting itself.

China's military is much larger, more professional, and better equipped. They have a 7 million man standing army, and a 15 million man reserve force (National Guard, if you will). Their Type 99 tanks are pretty tough too.


India wouldn't stand a chance.

No, they don't have a 7 million man army, nor 15 million in reserve. How many type 99's do you think they have, exactly? You would see mass type 59's and 63's mostly.

Err... Russia is still plenty powerful. Power projection, not much to speak of, but no military in the world could beat it on its own land. The US might be able to capture a good half or so of siberia, before slowly getting pushed out. Other than that, no nation in the world could even get that far.

It has lost alot of its power, but it still has large numbers of decent stuff. Thats all it really needs, for protecting itself.



No their not. Chechnya is kicking Russia's ass!!! I was there just recently, and talked to a Russian military officer, who proceeded to tell me that they were getting spanked, seriously.

No, they don't have a 7 million man army, nor 15 million in reserve. How many type 99's do you think they have, exactly? You would see mass type 59's and 63's mostly.

Doesn't China only have like three million total in its military?

No, they don't have a 7 million man army, nor 15 million in reserve. How many type 99's do you think they have, exactly? You would see mass type 59's and 63's mostly.



Not many type 99s. I realize that. The 99 is basically a Chinese T-90, which is a good tank, but not as good as an Abrams. The Chinese do however possess the ability to field a 7 million man force, as a standing force, at least thats what a diplomat to China once told me. I'll go look for their military stats on the CIA web page.

Though as previously stated, India does have a badass airforce. It kicked the US's ass when we did a wargame against them. (And I was pissed about that too!)

Hardly. It has a great airforce, but you can't compare real warfare to DACT. US forces were hideously handicapped in the "wargame".

But again, the indians do have a great airforce, with Su-30's, Mirage 2000's, etc.

CIA says they have 350 million people who they could call up at any time. All 18-22 year olds must do 2 years in the PLA.


I rest my case.

China's military is much larger, more professional, and better equipped. They have a 7 million man standing army, and a 15 million man reserve force (National Guard, if you will). Their Type 99 tanks are pretty tough too.

I have my doubts about the effectiveness of (mostly) poorly armed peasants though both sides would be using them also the territory that the fighting would occur on is hardly friendly to heavy armour so T-99 may be sidelined until Chinese troops push further into India

Hardly. It has a great airforce, but you can't compare real warfare to DACT. US forces were hideously handicapped in the "wargame".

But again, the indians do have a great airforce, with Su-30's, Mirage 2000's, etc.

I'm not an airforce guy, my Dad who follows the airforce (like I do the Army and Marine Corps.) pretty closely told me we got spanked.

I have my doubts about the effectiveness of (mostly) poorly armed peasants though both sides would be using them also the territory that the fighting would occur on is hardly friendly to heavy armour so T-99 may be sidelined until Chinese troops push further into India

True PLA troops, the Main Force, are hardly ineffective. They are VERY well trained. VERY Disciplined, and VERY motivated. The "reservists" i mentioned earlier are peasents. But the PLA Main Force guys are tough.


EDIT: They are generally well equipped too. They use a strange gun i've never seen before. Not the Chicom shit they used back in Nam or Korea either.

No their not. Chechnya is kicking Russia's ass!!! I was there just recently, and talked to a Russian military officer, who proceeded to tell me that they were getting spanked, seriously.

Its a war of attrition. One quarter of the people now in chechnya are Russian Soldiers. The chechen male population is so reduced, it may be terminal. Overall, they've lost 10% of their overall population since the early 90s. In short, tough men as they are, they're fucked. And let it be noted that no-one in the West lifted a finger.

Err... Russia is still plenty powerful. Power projection, not much to speak of, but no military in the world could beat it on its own land. The US might be able to capture a good half or so of siberia, before slowly getting pushed out. Other than that, no nation in the world could even get that far.

It has lost alot of its power, but it still has large numbers of decent stuff. Thats all it really needs, for protecting itself.

Russia lacks the will to fight a long bloody conflict in Siberia especially with its military currently in shambles and lets not forget Russia must move large amounts of its forces across huge stretches of terrain on terrible rail and roads

Its a war of attrition. One quarter of the people now in chechnya are Russian Soldiers. The chechen male population is so reduced, it may be terminal. Overall, they've lost 10% of their overall population since the early 90s. In short, tough men as they are, they're fucked. And let it be noted that no-one in the West lifted a finger.

Well, I want the Chechnians to win. They deserve autonomy. The Russian's are the bad guys in this. Though, the Chechnyans have done alot of bad things to get there, such as the school bombing.

Russia lacks the will to fight a long bloody conflict in Siberia especially with its military currently in shambles and lets not forget Russia must move large amounts of its forces across huge stretches of terrain on terrible rail and roads

Oh my god are the rail roads horrible. I rode in "First Class" on a passenger train turned Troop transport. I was attacked by body mites on my bed!!!!

CIA says they have 350 million people who they could call up at any time. All 18-22 year olds must do 2 years in the PLA.


I rest my case.

You are still wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Liberation_Army

"Its 2.25-million-strong force makes it the largest standing army in the world, in terms of number of troops (3.25 million if active paramilitary personnel are included)."

"Terms of service

Theoretically, all citizens of the PRC have the duty of performing military service. In practice, military service with the PLA is voluntary; all 18-year-old people have to register themselves with the government authorities, in a way similar to the Selective Service System of the United States. The main exception to this system applies to potential university students, who are required to undergo military training before their courses commence.

Residents of the two Special Administrative Regions, Hong Kong and Macau, are prohibited from joining the PLA."

Some other interesting quotes

"The PLA’s tank inventory was numbered around 10,000 during its peak time in the 1980s/90s, but this was estimated to have reduced to 6,000~8,000 over the past few years. The Chinese-produced versions of the Soviet T-54A (Type 59 and Type 69) account for over 2/3 of the total PLA tank inventory."

Russia lacks the will to fight a long bloody conflict in Siberia especially with its military currently in shambles and lets not forget Russia must move large amounts of its forces across huge stretches of terrain on terrible rail and roads

Russia lacks the will?

...

You really don't know many russians, do you?

You are still wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Liberation_Army

"Its 2.25-million-strong force makes it the largest standing army in the world, in terms of number of troops (3.25 million if active paramilitary personnel are included)."

"Terms of service

Theoretically, all citizens of the PRC have the duty of performing military service. In practice, military service with the PLA is voluntary; all 18-year-old people have to register themselves with the government authorities, in a way similar to the Selective Service System of the United States. The main exception to this system applies to potential university students, who are required to undergo military training before their courses commence.

Residents of the two Special Administrative Regions, Hong Kong and Macau, are prohibited from joining the PLA."

Some other interesting quotes

"The PLA’s tank inventory was numbered around 10,000 during its peak time in the 1980s/90s, but this was estimated to have reduced to 6,000~8,000 over the past few years. The Chinese-produced versions of the Soviet T-54A (Type 59 and Type 69) account for over 2/3 of the total PLA tank inventory."


Ok. You proved me wrong in one area. It wouldn't matter anyway, as they can easily get more troops. And besides, skill of the soldier doesn't especially matter, when they use Human Wave doctrine anyway, unless thats changed in the last 15 years.

Russia lacks the will?

...

You really don't know many russians, do you?

If they had the will to fight, I wouldn't have seen an entire company of soldiers sprinting off that troop transport, in order to put as much distance between them and Chechnya as possible.

I'm not an airforce guy, my Dad who follows the airforce (like I do the Army and Marine Corps.) pretty closely told me we got spanked.

Yes, we were doing badly in the DACT(Dissimilar Air Combat Training).

However, thats like tying up joe fraizer and beating him with a crowbar, then saying you kicked joe fraizers ass.

You sure did, but its hardly something to gloat about. The US was heavily, heavily handicapped in the combat, the reason for them losing.

Russia will EASILY defeat both India and China! Hail the Motherland!

Yes, we were doing badly in the DACT(Dissimilar Air Combat Training).

However, thats like tying up joe fraizer and beating him with a crowbar, then saying you kicked joe fraizers ass.

You sure did, but its hardly something to gloat about. The US was heavily, heavily handicapped in the combat, the reason for them losing.

Ok, thanks for clearing that up :)

Russia will EASILY defeat both India and China! Hail the Motherland!

No Sel, they wont. lol

Sorry God, but I have to disagree with you on this one.

If they had the will to fight, I wouldn't have seen an entire company of soldiers sprinting off that troop transport, in order to put as much distance between them and Chechnya as possible.

There's a difference between an insurgency-type conflict, such as chechnya, and a nation invading yours.

How many americans do you think would support the military, or even join it, if we got attacked by some force that actually had a chance of defeating us(Its hypothetical)? Despite those against iraq, fucking around in iraq, etc?

skill of the soldier doesn't especially matter, when they use Human Wave doctrine anyway, unless thats changed in the last 15 years.

India may also resort to this tactic and on difficult terrain it could end up being a long trench war only on an enormous scale

No Sel, they wont. lol

Sorry God, but I have to disagree with you on this one.

Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa.

Sel is God?

India may also resort to this tactic and on difficult terrain it could end up being a long trench war only on an enormous scale

Like the Iran-Iraq war of the '80s. Thats a good possibility.

Ok. You proved me wrong in one area. It wouldn't matter anyway, as they can easily get more troops. And besides, skill of the soldier doesn't especially matter, when they use Human Wave doctrine anyway, unless thats changed in the last 15 years.

We all saw how well that worked in the Iran-Iraq conflict.

With improvements in cluster-bombing, fuel-ar bombing, HE explosives, artillery, automatic weaponry, etc... human wave is the dumbest thing you can do in modern combat.

We all saw how well that worked in the Iran-Iraq conflict.

With improvements in cluster-bombing, fuel-ar bombing, HE explosives, artillery, automatic weaponry, etc... human wave is the dumbest thing you can do in modern combat.

LOL! Funny you said that, because I just mentioned it.


And I realize that Human Wave is stupid. But do they seem to care/notice? Nope.

The idea that India would get the most support from the rest of the world is not reasonable. They may have diplomatic ties, but China has an enormous and growing economy, with a very bright future (economically speaking). India has the most programmers, but China has manufacturing capacity (look at WWII).

Russia would not take sides immediately, but take whatever action was most self-serving when it was obvious what benefited them the most.

The idea that India would get the most support from the rest of the world is not reasonable. They may have diplomatic ties, but China has an enormous and growing economy, with a very bright future (economically speaking). India has the most programmers, but China has manufacturing capacity (look at WWII).

Russia would not take sides immediately, but take whatever action was most self-serving when it was obvious what benefited them the most.

Why wouldn't India get the most support? At least India gives fair trials to supposed criminals. China gives them a few minutes to be humiliated in front of a judge, then they're "taken out back" and shot.

China has a literal mile of human rights violations (organ harvesting, anyone?). India is a lot cleaner in that respect. Oh, and the fact that China has a totalitarian government doesn't help their cause much, either.

LOL! Funny you said that, because I just mentioned it.


And I realize that Human Wave is stupid. But do they seem to care/notice? Nope.

I'm just saying, it wouldn't be effective.

Lets say India and China go to war tomorrow what do you think the outcome will be?

I would say that it would depend entirely on who Russia supports (though not actually getting involved because Russia cannot afford to fight either country) this will most likely be India because Russia has serious concerns over Chinas dreams of retaking the Russian far east. The same story would be the case for much of the far east as China currently has no allies in the region only nations who are constantly vigilant of a growing superpower

So I’m gambling on India being a victor (though of course I wouldn’t be much of a victory) though at the start China will almost certainly have an advantage in terms of military might and India will have a far harder time capturing Chinese territory but if India manages to hang on eventually India will turn the initial tide with arms supplied by other nations.
Any war between India and China will most likely be a nuclear exchange, if for no other reason than geography.

Take a look at this map: http://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/asia/lgcolor/incolor.htm ... then tell me what would be a viable invasion route. Certainly not through the Himalayas, and most likely not via Kashmir or Myanmar, both of which have almost as much impassable terrain. That leaves only by water ( China's Navy isn't the best by a long stretch ), or by air ( which means a bombing campaign over the Himalayas ).

Why wouldn't India get the most support? At least India gives fair trials to supposed criminals. China gives them a few minutes to be humiliated in front of a judge, then they're "taken out back" and shot.

China has a literal mile of human rights violations (organ harvesting, anyone?). India is a lot cleaner in that respect. Oh, and the fact that China has a totalitarian government doesn't help their cause much, either.

Its not so much this, its just that the indians have been working very hard on improving international relations as of late. Relations with europe and america especially have been rising much faster than that of china and them.

Its not so much this, its just that the indians have been working very hard on improving international relations as of late. Relations with europe and america especially have been rising much faster than that of china and them.

Well yeah, I know. I was just getting into smaller details.

any war between China and India would be severely hampered by the intervening nigh-unpassable (certainly to any 'real' military force) Mountains.
Keeping that in mind, only light infantry and air power would matter (since neither possess any sort of brown water navy).
India would clearly dominate the ground war, it's infantry is better armed and better trained and has much more experience in actual combat operations with Pakistan. In turn though, china would own the skies, China has the largest airforce, and while inexperienced, they are well trained (compared to other Chinese military branches) and well equipped.
However, Airpower doesn't win wars, ground power does. The chinese can dominate the air all they want, but with the proliferation of MANPADS and other mobile anti-air weapons, and the lack of Chinese heavy bombers (their only true ground attack capability would be low-altitude strike/close air supprt fighters) the Chinese air dominance would be useless against Indian ground troops.

Of course, all of this assumes that they don't just nuke each-other, but in nuclear war, there is no winner.

any war between China and India would be severely hampered by the intervening nigh-unpassable (certainly to any 'real' military force) Mountains.
Keeping that in mind, only light infantry and air power would matter (since neither possess any sort of brown water navy).
India would clearly dominate the ground war, it's infantry is better armed and better trained and has much more experience in actual combat operations with Pakistan. In turn though, china would own the skies, China has the largest airforce, and while inexperienced, they are well trained (compared to other Chinese military branches) and well equipped.
However, Airpower doesn't win wars, ground power does. The chinese can dominate the air all they want, but with the proliferation of MANPADS and other mobile anti-air weapons, and the lack of Chinese heavy bombers (their only true ground attack capability would be low-altitude strike/close air supprt fighters) the Chinese air dominance would be useless against Indian ground troops.

Of course, all of this assumes that they don't just nuke each-other, but in nuclear war, there is no winner.

I feel the exact opposite. India would win the air war, with much better trained pilots, and actually pretty good equipment. You can't win aerial warfare with numbers.

On the other hand, China has large numbers of ground forces. India hasn't exactly done well against china in land warfare... ever? A few hundred upgraded T-90's is nice, but won't do much against massed type-69's and type-80's.

However, I think air superiority in this day and age can win conventional warfare. I like to think of real air superiority as a massive force multiplier to ground forces, one that would make a weaker force have the advantage. Any decent chinese offensive would be bombed into being able to be beaten by the indian ground forces.

If China felt the desire to grab some extra terretory, India would be their last port of call - it's a huge hostile country with over a billion people. No, instead if China wanted more land they'd invade Mongolia, North Korea, or anywhere in South-East Asia... if they were ambitious they could even grab Eastern Russia... Hell, if their Navy was more up to scratch, they might even have a go at Australia...

However, it is just as likely that India would start this potential war, afterall, they suffer from the same population pressures as China. But again, India would not dare invade China.

The last time India got into a small war with China, the only thing that kept China from extending into India proper was over-extended supply lines and lack of political will.

Let me find the reference.

well China is beating India in Manufacturing
India's wealth has been rising for the private sectors while China's has not
India is lacking in the production of roads, airports, and buildings compared to China, but it excells in democratic activities
I think the U.S. would want to help India because of it's government, but it wouldn't want to help eliminate one of it's premire trading partners(China) so I think it would be neutral for the U.S.

the war you were looking for is the Sino-Indian War, in which the Chinese defeated the Indians
1.India has the world's 3rd largest active military
2.India has the world's 4th largest air force


1.China has the world's largest ground force with over 1.6 million
2.China also has the world's 3rd largest air force


I'd go with China on this one

If China and India went to war, which will never ever happen, China would overrun India easily. No contest.

Not familiar with the history of the recurring Indo-Sino border clashes since the 1962 war, are you? A war between the two may be unlikely, but is hardly a "will never ever happen".

CIA says they have 350 million people who they could call up at any time.

Nope. That's a common misreading of "manpower available for military service".

Manpower available for military service This entry gives the number of males and females falling in the military age range for the country and assumes that every individual is fit to serve.
https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/docs/notesanddefs.html#2105


And the info from globalsecurity.com is likely to be much more reliable and trustworthy than the wiki.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/index.html
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/india/index.html
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/indo-prc_1962.htm

the war you were looking for is the Sino-Indian War, in which the Chinese defeated the Indians
1.India has the world's 3rd largest active military
2.India has the world's 4th largest air force


1.China has the world's largest ground force with over 1.6 million
2.China also has the world's 3rd largest air force


I'd go with China on this one

Then the chinese would obviously beat the united states in a war, because it has more ground forces.

You can't nearly simplify on such a grand level.

Neither; both lack a critical component of their society that would be necessary to fight a war. China lacks the political stability, bureaucratic flexibility, and unity necessary to fight a long and involved war while India lacks the manufacturing and infrastructure base to keep up a fight. They would both collapse in fairly short order due to the strain of a war on them economically and politically and be forced to negotiate peace to prevent more serious consequences to their governments.

Then the chinese would obviously beat the united states in a war, because it has more ground forces.

You can't nearly simplify on such a grand level.

no they wouldn't
1.China isn't as militarily experienced as the U.S. and isn't as well equipped
2.The U.S. Military has the highest power projection
3. the U.S. has a lot of nuclear power
4. the U.S. has the most technologically advanced and largest air force in the world

no they wouldn't
1.China isn't as militarily experienced as the U.S. and isn't as well equipped
2.The U.S. Military has the highest power projection
3. the U.S. has a lot of nuclear power
4. the U.S. has the most technologically advanced and largest air force in the world

I was being sarcastic.

well I was just making sure you were