NationStates Jolt Archive

COMMENTARY: KEWL! I want one! Nikola would be proud! :D


Go Speed Racer! (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/23/opinion/23sun4.html?th&emc=th)

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/526/teslaroadstersa5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Published: July 23, 2006
Virtue alone will not break the grip that petroleum holds on the automobile market. That’s why the introduction of a sleek, high-performance roadster that happens to be electric rather than gasoline-fueled is worth noting.

Tesla Motors (http://www.teslamotors.com/index.php?js_enabled=1), a Silicon Valley start-up, has developed a two-seater that goes from zero to 60 miles an hour in four seconds, leaving the days of electric cars as glorified golf carts in the dust. The company seems to understands what it means to love cars as well as the environment. (On its Web site (http://www.teslamotors.com/index.php?js_enabled=1), Tesla revels in the power of the car’s acceleration pinning passengers to their seats.)

With a range of about 250 miles, the Tesla Roadster can go much farther on a single charge than earlier electric cars. And 150 of those miles cost about the same as one gallon of gas. But the car itself will not be cheap, running from $85,000 to $100,000. Rather than a stumbling block in this case, it’s actually a selling point.

Martin Eberhard, the company’s chief executive, recognizes that new technologies usually start out as high-end products. He and his team are making their car the newest hot gadget, a status symbol. If rappers and football stars buy them, maybe the company can make a dent in the market.

Tesla already has plans for a mainstream vehicle down the road if it can expand its business. Perhaps this is one area where trickle-down theories could really work.

From where does it get its charge? The grid?

I'd like to see their solution to demand-side management.

Right now the US can't even run its air conditioning on a hot day without fatally exceeding thermal ratings on network infrastructure. Somehow I doubt the network will support millions of these things getting plugged in at 5pm.

Looks pretty good too...

http://www.teslamotors.com/styling/body.php

From where does it get its charge? The grid?

I'd like to see their solution to demand-side management.

Right now the US can't even run its air conditioning on a hot day without fatally exceeding thermal ratings on network infrastructure. Somehow I doubt the network will support millions of these things getting plugged in at 5pm.
Surely you'd put it on to charge when you get to work, not when you want to leave...? Assuming there'd be limited spots available for charging, the power needed would be staggered across the day. Though I imagine demand would still exceed supply, it won't be quite as catastrophic as you're predicting.

From where does it get its charge? The grid?

I'd like to see their solution to demand-side management.

Right now the US can't even run its air conditioning on a hot day without fatally exceeding thermal ratings on network infrastructure. Somehow I doubt the network will support millions of these things getting plugged in at 5pm.
Pessimist! :p

Surely you'd put it on to charge when you get to work, not when you want to leave...? Assuming there'd be limited spots available for charging, the power needed would be staggered across the day. Though I imagine demand would still exceed supply, it won't be quite as catastrophic as you're predicting.
It would be quite catastrophic. You are lucky to have a 20% margin even in places where people have a clue. It doesn't matter when people plug the cars in, any crowd behaviour has damaging effects on networks. I doubt electric cars would be accepted if the power companies rationed your ability to recharge their batteries. Which would be absolutely essential, frankly.

It would be quite catastrophic. You are lucky to have a 20% margin even in places where people have a clue. It doesn't matter when people plug the cars in, any crowd behaviour has damaging effects on networks. I doubt electric cars would be accepted if the power companies rationed your ability to recharge their batteries. Which would be absolutely essential, frankly.
You underestimate the power of capitalism! If people want something, industrialists ( and politicians! ) find ways to provide it. :p

Pessimist! :p
Not really. I just know you and many other countries would have to replace the bulk of their power system infrastructure. The US has done little with its network assets since 1970s, some cities (eg Detroit) are still using power cables dating back to the 1950s. Spend a quarter trillion replacing the stuff, and we can talk electric cars. It's not pessimism, it's a simple question of what you have to do first.

You underestimate the power of capitalism! If people want something, industrialists ( and politicians! ) find ways to provide it. :p
Well, I have outlined what you need. Believe me, in the coming years I will be keeping an eye on it and waiting to see for something to be done.

It would be quite catastrophic. You are lucky to have a 20% margin even in places where people have a clue. It doesn't matter when people plug the cars in, any crowd behaviour has damaging effects on networks. I doubt electric cars would be accepted if the power companies rationed your ability to recharge their batteries. Which would be absolutely essential, frankly.
They wouldn't have to ration it so much. I don't know what the average travelling time is to get to work in America, but not everyone will have to recharge on the same day. Sure, in the cities there will be surges most days, but city grids will be better protected against power surges (or at least they would be if I were the designer).

Also, the car in question is an expensive product - $85000 to $100000. It'll be a good few years before even half of your average office schmucks are using them (assuming they do become popular). If they do start to become popular, US energy companies will have a substantial amount of time to improve the system in order to cope.

If they do start to become popular, US energy companies will have a substantial amount of time to improve the system in order to cope.
Let's hope mass take-up doesn't happen for 15-20 years, then. :p

Let's hope mass take-up doesn't happen for 15-20 years, then. :p
I was thinking 10-15 years, but I can imagine it taking up to 20, unless some serious investment is put into it by major car manufacturers.

This also ignores the issue with current electric generation, which is increasingly via burning fossil fuels.

I was thinking 10-15 years, but I can imagine it taking up to 20, unless some serious investment is put into it by major car manufacturers.
Well that's the other thing, car manufacturers would have to strike a strategic framework deal with the energy companies and their subcontractors. "Revolutionary" would be an understatement. There is simply no precedent.

This also ignores the issue with current electric generation, which is increasingly via burning fossil fuels.
But the electricity used to power the car for 250 miles (its top range) is generated from less fuel than a petrol engine car uses to travel that far. The details are on one of the spec pages of the Tesla site.

But the electricity used to power the car for 250 miles (its top range) is generated from less fuel than a petrol engine car uses to travel that far. The details are on one of the spec pages of the Tesla site.

Not to mention that some of the energy is generated by nuclear power or by renewable sources. In a petrol or diesel-driven car, 100% of the energy for moving the car is prodiced by burning fossil fuels.

But the electricity used to power the car for 250 miles (its top range) is generated from less fuel than a petrol engine car uses to travel that far. The details are on one of the spec pages of the Tesla site.
Yeah, less than a gallon of gas as it relates to people driving cars, that in no way negates the fact that powerplants run on fossil fuels. Electricity is alot cheaper than gas per consumer.

Yeah, less than a gallon of gas as it relates to people driving cars, that in no way negates the fact that powerplants run on fossil fuels. Electricity is alot cheaper than gas per consumer.

Hopefully, once these cars become mainstream the US will be generating more energy from nonfossil sources. Given the growth rates for wind and solar along with the other alternatives, I think it's certain we will reach that goal. The electric car will still require coal and natural gas for a share of its electricity, but hopefully that share will be a good deal smaller than the 72% it is currently.

Of course, we do have to take in to account the additional demand on the power infrastructure; depending on when people plug in their cars we could see the eqiuvalent of a heat-wave demand spike every day. In states like California or parts of New England, that could mean rolling blackouts. Some major investments in transmission lines, distributed generation systems, and power plants will be necessary to meet that demand. However, I think household solar and wind will have to be mainstream before the electric car can really take off; building centralized power plants is a costly and time-consuming endeavor, particularly in places like California and New England that lack the in-state resources necessary to supply them adequately.

I think we'll have to use a kind of "pumped storage" means to power cars in their first stage. For example, the plugs used on the cars might only be able to be used on fuel cells or flow batteries that charge themselves during off-peak periods from either the grid or household solar/wind and hold a specific amount of power, maybe 250 miles or something similar.

So, the US has caught up then.

http://www.rsportscars.com/eng/cars/venturi_fetish.asp

Not to mention that some of the energy is generated by nuclear power or by renewable sources. In a petrol or diesel-driven car, 100% of the energy for moving the car is prodiced by burning fossil fuels.
Yay! Nuclear power! If only we could figure out what to do with the radioactive waste:(

From where does it get its charge? The grid?

I'd like to see their solution to demand-side management.
Isn't it obvious?
The oil saved from using these cars will be burnt to created the electricity to run them.

everybody wins!