NationStates Jolt Archive

Gallup Poll. May 8-11, 2006: only 19% believe the Bible is just "fables"
CBS News Poll. April 6-9, 2006: 82% believe in God
64% think the Bible should be availabl for study in Social studies classes
49% want to see more religion in public schools
46% believe that this does not violate the theoretical seperation of church and state
only 31% have a negative opinon of fundamentalist Christians
only 19% have a positive view of Islam
48% belive that people who have strong religious beliefs are being persecuted in America ( up from 36% in 2004)

Gallup Poll. Aug. 8-11, 2005
76% support a Constitutional amendment to allow school prayer

CNN/USA Today/Gallup Poll. June 24-26, 2005
75% support the display of the ten commandments on public property

Newsweek Poll conducted by Princeton Survey Research Associates International. Dec. 2-3, 2004
55% believe that every word in the Bible is accurate
67% believe in the virgin birth of Christ

ABC News PrimeTime Poll. Feb. 6-10, 2004
60% believe the story of Noah
61% believe in genesis' version of creation
90% say keep God on coins

Harris Poll. June 17-21, 2005
only 38% believe that humans evolved from an earlier species

THE SECULAR AGENDA OF THE NEO LEFT HAS FAILED MISERABLY. CHRISTIANITY IS STILL THE MORAL ANCHOR OF AMERICA AND NOTHING WILL CHANGE THAT.

I don't understand the connection between the thread title and the content of the first post. They are contradictory at the very least.

Gallup Poll. May 8-11, 2006: only 19% believe the Bible is just "fables"
CBS News Poll. April 6-9, 2006: 82% believe in God
64% think the Bible should be availabl for study in Social studies classes
49% want to see more religion in public schools
46% believe that this does not violate the theoretical seperation of church and state
only 31% have a negative opinon of fundamentalist Christians
only 19% have a positive view of Islam
48% belive that people who have strong religious beliefs are being persecuted in America ( up from 36% in 2004)

Gallup Poll. Aug. 8-11, 2005
76% support a Constitutional amendment to allow school prayer

CNN/USA Today/Gallup Poll. June 24-26, 2005
75% support the display of the ten commandments on public property

Newsweek Poll conducted by Princeton Survey Research Associates International. Dec. 2-3, 2004
55% believe that every word in the Bible is accurate
67% believe in the virgin birth of Christ

ABC News PrimeTime Poll. Feb. 6-10, 2004
60% believe the story of Noah
61% believe in genesis' version of creation
90% say keep God on coins

Harris Poll. June 17-21, 2005
only 38% believe that humans evolved from an earlier species

THE SECULAR AGENDA OF THE NEO LEFT HAS FAILED MISERABLY. CHRISTIANITY IS STILL THE MORAL ANCHOR OF AMERICA AND NOTHING WILL CHANGE THAT.
Good. May it impeed their scientific development, diminishing their economic influence.

I would have assigned a starkly different title.

THE SECULAR AGENDA OF THE NEO LEFT HAS FAILED MISERABLY. CHRISTIANITY IS STILL THE MORAL ANCHOR OF AMERICA AND NOTHING WILL CHANGE THAT.

Christianity isn't even the moral anchor of Christians anymore. They simply assume that the bible supports the social norms that they believe are infallible.

so you're pro-Christianity right?:confused:

Gallup Poll. May 8-11, 2006: only 19% believe the Bible is just "fables"
CBS News Poll. April 6-9, 2006: 82% believe in God
64% think the Bible should be availabl for study in Social studies classes
49% want to see more religion in public schools
46% believe that this does not violate the theoretical seperation of church and state
only 31% have a negative opinon of fundamentalist Christians
only 19% have a positive view of Islam
48% belive that people who have strong religious beliefs are being persecuted in America ( up from 36% in 2004)

Gallup Poll. Aug. 8-11, 2005
76% support a Constitutional amendment to allow school prayer

CNN/USA Today/Gallup Poll. June 24-26, 2005
75% support the display of the ten commandments on public property

Newsweek Poll conducted by Princeton Survey Research Associates International. Dec. 2-3, 2004
55% believe that every word in the Bible is accurate
67% believe in the virgin birth of Christ

ABC News PrimeTime Poll. Feb. 6-10, 2004
60% believe the story of Noah
61% believe in genesis' version of creation
90% say keep God on coins

Harris Poll. June 17-21, 2005
only 38% believe that humans evolved from an earlier species

THE SECULAR AGENDA OF THE NEO LEFT HAS FAILED MISERABLY. CHRISTIANITY IS STILL THE MORAL ANCHOR OF AMERICA AND NOTHING WILL CHANGE THAT.

This makes me weep....

I don't understand the connection between the thread title and the content of the first post. They are contradictory at the very least.

To that I respond with a quote:
"How many winds of doctrine we have known in recent decades, how many ideological currents, how many ways of thinking... - thrown from one extreme to the other: from Marxism to liberalism, even to libertinism; from collectivism to radical individualism; from atheism to a vague religious mysticism; from agnosticism to syncretism, and so forth. Every day new sects are created and what Saint Paul says about human trickery comes true, with cunning which tries to draw those into error (cf Eph 4, 14). Having a clear faith, based on the Creed of the Church, is often labeled today as a fundamentalism. Whereas, relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and "swept along by every wind of teaching", looks like the only attitude (acceptable) to today's standards. We are moving towards a dictatorship of relativism which does not recognize anything as for certain and which has as its highest goal one's own ego and one's own desires.
However, we have a different goal: the Son of God, true man. He is the measure of true humanism. Being an "Adult" means having a faith which does not follow the waves of today's fashions or the latest novelties. A faith which is deeply rooted in friendship with Christ is adult and mature. It is this friendship which opens us up to all that is good and gives us the knowledge to judge true from false, and deceit from truth. We must become mature in this adult faith; we must guide the flock of Christ to this faith. And it is this faith - only faith - which creates unity and takes form in love."-Pope Benedict XVI

until loony Howard Dean realizes that the American people have not been swayed his party will continue to lose. The arrogance displayed on this forum towards Christians is evidence of why the backlash is occuring.

Not lost yet, but impressions do indicate that it's heading the way of Iran and Saudi Arabia.

Thanks for bringing this to our attention, Barrygoldwater. You're doing a great deed for secularism. :)

Good. May it impeed their scientific development, diminishing their economic influence.


wrong> America has a 4.7% unemployment rate ( eat that Euro-Union)
low inflation
high growth
the largest GDP on earth
a wealthy people
more scientific inventions than any other nation on Earth to our credit

pwned

This makes me weep....


Same here. When people still believe that Adam and Eve were the first people, you know society is doomed.

To that I respond with a quote:
"How many winds of doctrine we have known in recent decades, how many ideological currents, how many ways of thinking... - thrown from one extreme to the other: from Marxism to liberalism, even to libertinism; from collectivism to radical individualism; from atheism to a vague religious mysticism; from agnosticism to syncretism, and so forth. Every day new sects are created and what Saint Paul says about human trickery comes true, with cunning which tries to draw those into error (cf Eph 4, 14). Having a clear faith, based on the Creed of the Church, is often labeled today as a fundamentalism. Whereas, relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and "swept along by every wind of teaching", looks like the only attitude (acceptable) to today's standards. We are moving towards a dictatorship of relativism which does not recognize anything as for certain and which has as its highest goal one's own ego and one's own desires.
However, we have a different goal: the Son of God, true man. He is the measure of true humanism. Being an "Adult" means having a faith which does not follow the waves of today's fashions or the latest novelties. A faith which is deeply rooted in friendship with Christ is adult and mature. It is this friendship which opens us up to all that is good and gives us the knowledge to judge true from false, and deceit from truth. We must become mature in this adult faith; we must guide the flock of Christ to this faith. And it is this faith - only faith - which creates unity and takes form in love."-Pope Benedict XVI

until loony Howard Dean realizes that the American people have not been swayed his party will continue to lose. The arrogance displayed on this forum towards Christians is evidence of why the backlash is occuring.
So the Pope called us childish for not believing in Christ.:rolleyes:

Thank God I live in one of the saner nations.

I would have assigned a starkly different title.



Christianity isn't even the moral anchor of Christians anymore. They simply assume that the bible supports the social norms that they believe are infallible.

Homosexuality is wrong.
abortion is wrong.
Helping people is good.
Cheating is bad.
respect is good.

such things are very biblical in nature.

Same here. When people still believe that Adam and Eve were the first people, you know society is doomed.

yours is too

so you're pro-Christianity right?:confused:
yes.

wrong> America has a 4.7% unemployment rate ( eat that Euro-Union)
low inflation
high growth
the largest GDP on earth
a wealthy people
more scientific inventions than any other nation on Earth to our credit

pwned
Most of that was achieved when the USA was allot less devout.

That kind of power doesn't go away overnight.

Gallup Poll. May 8-11, 2006: only 19% believe the Bible is just "fables"
CBS News Poll. April 6-9, 2006: 82% believe in God
64% think the Bible should be availabl for study in Social studies classes
49% want to see more religion in public schools
46% believe that this does not violate the theoretical seperation of church and state
only 31% have a negative opinon of fundamentalist Christians
only 19% have a positive view of Islam
48% belive that people who have strong religious beliefs are being persecuted in America ( up from 36% in 2004)

Gallup Poll. Aug. 8-11, 2005
76% support a Constitutional amendment to allow school prayer

CNN/USA Today/Gallup Poll. June 24-26, 2005
75% support the display of the ten commandments on public property

Newsweek Poll conducted by Princeton Survey Research Associates International. Dec. 2-3, 2004
55% believe that every word in the Bible is accurate
67% believe in the virgin birth of Christ

ABC News PrimeTime Poll. Feb. 6-10, 2004
60% believe the story of Noah
61% believe in genesis' version of creation
90% say keep God on coins

Harris Poll. June 17-21, 2005
only 38% believe that humans evolved from an earlier species

THE SECULAR AGENDA OF THE NEO LEFT HAS FAILED MISERABLY. CHRISTIANITY IS STILL THE MORAL ANCHOR OF AMERICA AND NOTHING WILL CHANGE THAT.
I could care less how many people in this country beleive in God or that Noah rode an Ark...what I DO care about, is that only 38% beleive in evolution...religion, is fine by me, but religion, limiting science (progress) is NOT fine by me.

Not lost yet, but impressions do indicate that it's heading the way of Iran and Saudi Arabia.

Thanks for bringing this to our attention, Barrygoldwater. You're doing a great deed for secularism. :)


Um...yeah, we used to be slightly more religious, according to data. if anything, we have lost some fundamentalist spirit. Comparing us to terrorist states is not really fair either, although you may be sarcastic..I'm not sure.

I could care less how many people in this country beleive in God or that Noah rode an Ark...what I DO care about, is that only 38% beleive in evolution...religion, is fine by me, but religion, limiting science (progress) is NOT fine by me.
Wow, even you are on my side-ish. And you agreed (sorta) with a quote in my sig that I choose because I thought it was increadable silly.

Homosexuality is wrong.
abortion is wrong.
Helping people is good.
Cheating is bad.
respect is good.

such things are very biblical in nature.


How is homosexuality wrong? I'm not homosexual, but I don't feel its my right to say another man cannot express those feelings to another man. Even if I personally wouldn't agree with it. How is abortion wrong? It should be the women's choice!

I keep telling you, the trick is to give them directions to the interstate, then call ahead and get your friends to change all the highway signs.

If they're not lost yet, they soon will be.

Bloody tourists!

Homosexuality is wrong.
.
.
.
respect is good.

such things are very biblical in nature.

Anyone else see this and go "....huh?"

Newsflash, you can not respect someone by calling their lifestyle "wrong". Respect, TRUE respect, comes from recognizing people have the right to live their life in peace, without being told that the choices they make, which harm no one, is wrong.

As long as your religion holds as its fundamental tenants that a certain lifestyle is wrong, they are without respect for basic human dignity, and deserve none in return.

Don't even get me started on abortion...

yes.

me too:D

I could care less how many people in this country beleive in God or that Noah rode an Ark...what I DO care about, is that only 38% beleive in evolution...religion, is fine by me, but religion, limiting science (progress) is NOT fine by me.


I will heartfully second that my friend!

I always figured stupidity was contagious.

It's time for a REAL return to roots... DEIST style!

Wow, even you are on my side-ish. And you agreed (sorta) with a quote in my sig that I choose because I thought it was increadable silly.

Thats because that quote had to do with Feminism...and absolutly nothing to do with science and progress. ;)

I will heartfully second that my friend!

Amen, bro.:)

People don't need religion but they do need faith. They're stories to guide people. Teach lessons. Don't lie. Don't steal. Be a good person. I don't know how you can argue with stuff like that. I'm not saying the government should endorse it but it shouldn't be restricted either.

Thats because that quote had to do with Feminism...and absolutly nothing to do with science and progress. ;)
True Dat. Feminist are known for their overall sillyness.

To that I respond with a quote: [snip]-Pope Benedict XVI

until loony Howard Dean realizes that the American people have not been swayed his party will continue to lose. The arrogance displayed on this forum towards Christians is evidence of why the backlash is occuring.

I reply to this with another quote, from a rather deeper thinker than Pope Benedict XVI.

Christianity as antiquity. When we hear the ancient bells growling on a Sunday morning we ask ourselves: Is it really possible! this for a Jew, crucified two thousand years ago, who said he was God's son. The proof of such a claim is lacking. Certainly the Christian religion is an antiquity projected on our times from remote prehistory; and the fact that the claimis believed - whereas one is otherwise so strict in examining pretensions - is perhaps the most ancient piece of this heritage. A god who begets children with a mortal woman; a sage who bids men work no more, have no more courts, but look for the signs of the impending end of the world; a justice that accepts the innocent as a vicarious sacrifice; someone who orders his disciples to drink his blood; prayers for miraculous interventions; sins perpetrated against a god; atoned for by a god; fear of a beyond to which death is the portal; the form of the cross as a symbol in a time that no longer knows the function and ignominy of the cross - how ghoulish all this touches us, as if from the tomb of a primeval past. Can one believe that such things are still believed? (Friedrich Nietzsche - Human, All Too Human - 113)

And you claim that because people, a century later are still following this ancien regime - the USA is not lost? Not lost in what way? Certainly it is lost if your figures are correct and the criterion is that of being reasonable.

True Dat. Feminist are known for their overall sillyness.
Lol....sillyness, is an understatement. Carry on.:)

Um...yeah, we used to be slightly more religious, according to data. if anything, we have lost some fundamentalist spirit. Comparing us to terrorist states is not really fair either, although you may be sarcastic..I'm not sure.

But Saudi Arabia is an ally of America and therefore freedom.

yes.

[Dm head bangs hardcore]

Right on, brother.

Homosexuality is wrong.
abortion is wrong.

Neither of those are directly addressed by Christ.

If you want to bring up old testament teachings, you are opening up a whole new can of worms for yourself.

Helping people is good.

How about welfare?

Cheating is bad.

(Perhaps you should find some statistics on the amount of extramarital sex that occurs in the US)

How about divorce?

respect is good.

This is neither biblical nor prevalent in the US.

If you want to bring up old testament teachings, you are opening up a whole new can of worms for yourself.
Ahh, but what if you're Jewish?

Ahh, but what if you're Jewish?

Then you don't celebrate Christmas and you aren't the moral backbone of America, apparently.

Gallup Poll. May 8-11, 2006: only 19% believe the Bible is just "fables"
CBS News Poll. April 6-9, 2006: 82% believe in God
64% think the Bible should be availabl for study in Social studies classes
49% want to see more religion in public schools
46% believe that this does not violate the theoretical seperation of church and state
only 31% have a negative opinon of fundamentalist Christians
only 19% have a positive view of Islam
48% belive that people who have strong religious beliefs are being persecuted in America ( up from 36% in 2004)

Gallup Poll. Aug. 8-11, 2005
76% support a Constitutional amendment to allow school prayer

CNN/USA Today/Gallup Poll. June 24-26, 2005
75% support the display of the ten commandments on public property

Newsweek Poll conducted by Princeton Survey Research Associates International. Dec. 2-3, 2004
55% believe that every word in the Bible is accurate
67% believe in the virgin birth of Christ

ABC News PrimeTime Poll. Feb. 6-10, 2004
60% believe the story of Noah
61% believe in genesis' version of creation
90% say keep God on coins

Harris Poll. June 17-21, 2005
only 38% believe that humans evolved from an earlier species

THE SECULAR AGENDA OF THE NEO LEFT HAS FAILED MISERABLY. CHRISTIANITY IS STILL THE MORAL ANCHOR OF AMERICA AND NOTHING WILL CHANGE THAT.


Barry was not one of the Christofascists that you follow. See my sig.

Then you don't celebrate Christmas and you aren't the moral backbone of America, apparently.
Fine to the first part, but to the second part...but Judaism is the moral backbone of Christianity.

Fine to the first part, but to the second part...but Judaism is the moral backbone of Christianity.
But they killed Jesus. and my master race:(

Fine to the first part, but to the second part...but Judaism is the moral backbone of Christianity.

Not hardly.

Judaism = don't do wrong

Christianity = we all do wrong, that's why we have Jesus.

There is a huge moral difference between the two.

But they killed Jesus. and my master race:(
No fool...I killed your master race.





and the Romans killed Jesus.;)

Not hardly.

Judaism = don't do wrong

Christianity = we all do wrong, that's why we have Jesus.

There is a huge moral difference between the two.

Yes, VO, if you look at it that way you are 100% correct.

Wow.

No fool...I killed your master race.





and the Romans killed Jesus.;)
Good luck. They got fore-arm length claws. But I suppose the giant knockers would somehow block them?

And the Roman's were nearly tools of the English.

Good luck. They got fore-arm length claws. But I suppose the giant knockers would somehow block them?

And the Roman's were nearly tools of the English.

That, and my blonde race's stunning good looks would just incapacitate your "race".

And the English are vaginas.:p

Yes, VO, if you look at it that way you are 100% correct.

Wow.

That is why I think people who actually followed christianity would be libertarian socialists. Christianity teaches acceptance of all sinners (socially liberal) as everyone is a sinner, and therefore no one is in a position to cast moral judgement besides God. Jesus also clearly despised wealth and loved charity (egalitarianism).

EDIT: I think Judaism would be more conducive to an authoritarian government.

Yet somehow, the two got switched.

That is why I think people who actually followed christianity would be libertarian socialists. Christianity teaches acceptance of all sinners (socially liberal) as everyone is a sinner, and therefore no one is in a position to cast moral judgement besides God. Jesus also clearly despised wealth and loved charity (egalitarianism).

A certain kind of libertarian socialist, though. Utopian and pacifistic. Leo Tolstoy had it right, more or less.

That, and my blonde race's stunning good looks would just incapacitate your "race".

And the English are vaginas.:p
My race wouldn't practise beasiality.;)

That is why I think people who actually followed christianity would be libertarian socialists. Christianity teaches acceptance of all sinners (socially liberal) as everyone is a sinner, and therefore no one is in a position to cast moral judgement besides God. Jesus also clearly despised wealth and loved charity (egalitarianism).

EDIT: I think Judaism would be more conducive to an authoritarian government.

Yet somehow, the two got switched.

It is interesting how that worked out. I always thought that my religion (Judaism) should be more Right Wing...Capitalist and maybe libertarain but you could also argue Authoritarian....and, like you said Christianity the opposite...Its just really funny how its played out in history. Very strange indeed. Anyway, I'm off to bed.

Anyone else see this and go "....huh?"

Newsflash, you can not respect someone by calling their lifestyle "wrong". Respect, TRUE respect, comes from recognizing people have the right to live their life in peace, without being told that the choices they make, which harm no one, is wrong.

Funny that

I think calling homosexuality a "lifestyle" is wrong. Its the accepted norm for some, but I don't see it as a lifestyle (not like going to the gym, or living in a unit could be considered a part of a "lifestyle")

It hasn't been definitively proven that it isnt caused by a bio or chemical imbalance in DNA or something.

I'm not labelling it "wrong" but it doesn't fit in with every other example of "nature" and "natural" that we as humans have to look at around us in our world

99% of people will agree that "killing" is wrong or immoral, whether its a teenager killing a cat or a soldiers shooting one another.

Yet abortion is killing of a living animal (humans are animals), why is it a "loophole".

Forget "pro choice" if people took the proper precautions and had their heads screwed on properly, there would be no need for abortion, no matter how much sex people have

It is interesting how that worked out. I always thought that my religion (Judaism) should be more Right Wing...Capitalist and maybe libertarain but you could also argue Authoritarian....and, like you said Christianity the opposite...Its just really funny how its played out in history. Very strange indeed. Anyway, I'm off to bed.

Judaism is authoritarian left - its preferred mode of government is a benevolent, divinely-inspired monarchy that holds to a strong conception of social justice.

Uh-oh, EST. You raised the ugly subject of abortion. Best you put on your flame retardant jammies now.

Funny that

I think calling homosexuality a "lifestyle" is wrong. Its the accepted norm for some, but I don't see it as a lifestyle (not like going to the gym, or living in a unit could be considered a part of a "lifestyle")

It hasn't been definitively proven that it isnt caused by a bio or chemical imbalance in DNA or something.

I'm not labelling it "wrong" but it doesn't fit in with every other example of "nature" and "natural" that we as humans have to look at around us in our world
Well, there are homosexual monkeys. That's pretty darned natural

Forget "pro choice" if people took the proper precautions and had their heads screwed on properly, there would be no need for abortion, no matter how much sex people have
Clicky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape)

Uh-oh, EST. You raised the ugly subject of abortion. Best you put on your flame retardant jammies now.

I don't see why we even bother arguing on the issue. Someone stands up and says "but a fetus isn't a human being, and I have no problem with killing animals, after all, I eat meat" and then a day later the same fucking argument gets made.

Funny that

I think calling homosexuality a "lifestyle" is wrong. Its the accepted norm for some, but I don't see it as a lifestyle (not like going to the gym, or living in a unit could be considered a part of a "lifestyle")

It hasn't been definitively proven that it isnt caused by a bio or chemical imbalance in DNA or something.

I'm not labelling it "wrong" but it doesn't fit in with every other example of "nature" and "natural" that we as humans have to look at around us in our world

Lifestyle is the way I define as "the way you live your life". Homosexuality is not a lifestyle, it's an existance. PRACTICING homosexuality is a lifestyle. Same as practicing heterosexuality. Neither are wrong nor sinful, however since the standard christian response is "being gay isn't a sin, acting on being gay is", thus I define lifestyle in that case. In other words, neither being gay, nor acting on being gay, is wrong.

BTW, you say something that is a biochemical or DNA change as not "natural". How can something that exists IN NATURE and as a RESULT OF NATURE (and not done specifically by humans) be unnatural?

If they were born that way, without external man made forces, it occurs in nature. That is the DEFINITION of natural. If, without human intervention, it would occur in nature, then it is by definition natural. It need not be the norm, or even common, but it's still natural if it occurs by itself in nature.

99% of people will agree that "killing" is wrong or immoral, whether its a teenager killing a cat or a soldiers shooting one another.

Yet abortion is killing of a living animal (humans are animals), why is it a "loophole".

Ever eat meat? How bout chicken? Fish? That's killing of animals. I think VERY few people consider "killing" (without further elaboration) is wrong, most of our lifestyle, from what we eat to what we wear, comes directly from killing animals.

We object to senselessly killing animals in a painful manner however. Now if you want to argue abortion is/is not sensless/painful that's a whole other question. I believe it to be neither.

Forget "pro choice" if people took the proper precautions and had their heads screwed on properly, there would be no need for abortion, no matter how much sex people have

Because birth control never fails.

No....wait...

I'm not labelling it "wrong" but it doesn't fit in with every other example of "nature" and "natural" that we as humans have to look at around us in our world

I disagree strongly with all versions of the "nature" argument, but there is one that makes a good deal more sense than this one does.

"Natural" in the sense that, say, the Catholic Church uses it does not mean "found in nature" - it references the Aristotlean concept of human nature and purpose, which was incorporated into the principles of natural law, and argues that it violates the proper function of human beings to engage in sexual acts without the capacity for procreation.

This weakens the obvious objection, that gays and lesbians are innately - that is, "naturally" in the common sense - homosexual. That is no more a refutation of the notion of the human telos than other "natural" human tendencies to engage in what is deemed "sin." It does, however, lead to the problem of how one determines the purpose of a human being if it is not synonymous with the basic instincts and tendencies that make up the basis of human behavior.

I don't see why we even bother arguing on the issue. Someone stands up and says "but a fetus isn't a human being, and I have no problem with killing animals, after all, I eat meat" and then a day later the same fucking argument gets made.

Too true. I see it as a pointless exercise. No one is ever going to come up with a viewpoint so insightful, foolproof, and so original that it is going to change another person's opinion that has likely carved in granite for years. Not one side is ever going to win the argument, or for that matter, to even sway the other side so much as one iota either way. It's a losing battle. All you can ever hope to do, really, is lower yourself to the lowest common denominator in an effort to achieve the impossible. (Although a good mud slinging exercise is sometimes fun, and a great cardio-vascular workout.)

You may as well join the debate on whether or not God exists next.

So...... yeah, I think I agree with you.

Funny that

I think calling homosexuality a "lifestyle" is wrong. Its the accepted norm for some, but I don't see it as a lifestyle (not like going to the gym, or living in a unit could be considered a part of a "lifestyle")

It hasn't been definitively proven that it isnt caused by a bio or chemical imbalance in DNA or something.

I'm not labelling it "wrong" but it doesn't fit in with every other example of "nature" and "natural" that we as humans have to look at around us in our world

99% of people will agree that "killing" is wrong or immoral, whether its a teenager killing a cat or a soldiers shooting one another.

Yet abortion is killing of a living animal (humans are animals), why is it a "loophole".

Forget "pro choice" if people took the proper precautions and had their heads screwed on properly, there would be no need for abortion, no matter how much sex people have
The only proper precaution that guarantees no abortions is no sex. Please stop talking when you run out of sense.

Abortion is between the woman and her conception of God, and pro-lifers just can't handle that.

It's already been posted in all of the myriad gay marriage and homosexuality threads that homoseuxality in the animal kingdom is present and not rare, thus, natural.

Son, you're done.

*snippy snip snip*


Yuck. Most of that was terribly depressing. Believing in God and so forth is all well and good, but believing that everyone is persecuting you (including, apparently, the entire scientific community) doesn't exactly sound entirely sane.

I don't understand the connection between the thread title and the content of the first post. They are contradictory at the very least.
Aye Aye Cap'n!

Barrygoldwater, do you know anything about your namesake?

His dad was a Jew who converted to the Episcopal Church when he married his fiancee (Josephine Williams). So, Jewish by ancestry (original family name was Goldwasser), raised Episcopal -- hardly the kind of fundamentalist Christian you're touting yourself as.

He was a frat boy at the U of Arizona (Sigma Chi, no less). He took over the family's department store business when his dad died. He was innovative with business practices and staunchly anti-union. The stress of runnin gthat business caused him nervous breakdowns in 1937 and 1939 and he developed and never overcame alcoholism.

He helped stoke the modern Conservative movement in US politics by losing soundly to LBJ in 1964, paving the way for Reagan's landslide in 1980. After 1981, however, he took libertarian positions and harshly criticized the influence of the Christian Right on the Republican Party.

So it seems he got wiser as he aged.

Look, Sonny Jim, if you want to barge into this forum and condemn us all as sinners, that's fine by me. You're another in a line of folks who only seem to read those parts of the Bible that embolden them to lord their morality over others in smug judgement. Those who don't believe can sit in smug judgment because they don't have a book with a Messiah who expressly tells them not to do that.

Yet in you come, spewing "this is wrong" and "that is right", and frankly, old bean, nobody cares what you think, and we care even less when you see fit to marginalize any of us with your divisive and sanctimonious horseshit.

So please, by all means, express yourself! It's a relatively free forum. But don't for a second imagine that you'll be greeted with anything but contempt when you try to dictate your values as law for the lot of us.

The real Barry Goldwater would be offended at your use of his good name.

Funny that

I think calling homosexuality a "lifestyle" is wrong. Its the accepted norm for some, but I don't see it as a lifestyle (not like going to the gym, or living in a unit could be considered a part of a "lifestyle")

It hasn't been definitively proven that it isnt caused by a bio or chemical imbalance in DNA or something.

I'm not labelling it "wrong" but it doesn't fit in with every other example of "nature" and "natural" that we as humans have to look at around us in our world

99% of people will agree that "killing" is wrong or immoral, whether its a teenager killing a cat or a soldiers shooting one another.

Yet abortion is killing of a living animal (humans are animals), why is it a "loophole".

Forget "pro choice" if people took the proper precautions and had their heads screwed on properly, there would be no need for abortion, no matter how much sex people have

Oy vey. So many silly, silly statements in this post.

Short answers: Things caused by DNA/hormones are rather obviously "natural," unless you believe DNA is a magic substance created by aliens from another universe; few non-vegetarians consider killing unambiguously wrong, since it's hard to get a hamburger without killing a cow; calling a fetus "living" is rather debatable; and have you ever heard of a concept called "rape"? How about a concept called "basic math," which could help you figure out that even if a method of birth control has a 99% success rate, it also has a 1% failure rate?

*sigh*

Barrygoldwater, do you know anything about your namesake?

His dad was a Jew who converted to the Episcopal Church when he married his fiancee (Josephine Williams). So, Jewish by ancestry (original family name was Goldwasser), raised Episcopal -- hardly the kind of fundamentalist Christian you're touting yourself as.

He was a frat boy at the U of Arizona (Sigma Chi, no less). He took over the family's department store business when his dad died. He was innovative with business practices and staunchly anti-union. The stress of runnin gthat business caused him nervous breakdowns in 1937 and 1939 and he developed and never overcame alcoholism.

He helped stoke the modern Conservative movement in US politics by losing soundly to LBJ in 1964, paving the way for Reagan's landslide in 1980. After 1981, however, he took libertarian positions and harshly criticized the influence of the Christian Right on the Republican Party.

So it seems he got wiser as he aged.

Look, Sonny Jim, if you want to barge into this forum and condemn us all as sinners, that's fine by me. You're another in a line of folks who only seem to read those parts of the Bible that embolden them to lord their morality over others in smug judgement. Those who don't believe can sit in smug judgment because they don't have a book with a Messiah who expressly tells them not to do that.

Yet in you come, spewing "this is wrong" and "that is right", and frankly, old bean, nobody cares what you think, and we care even less when you see fit to marginalize any of us with your divisive and sanctimonious horseshit.

So please, by all means, express yourself! It's a relatively free forum. But don't for a second imagine that you'll be greeted with anything but contempt when you try to dictate your values as law for the lot of us.

The real Barry Goldwater would be offended at your use of his good name.

Now that's a strongly worded letter.

The real Barry Goldwater would be offended at your use of his good name.

I've already mentioned it to this person. He's looking pretty much to be a poop and run troll, probably some puppet.

Oy vey. So many silly, silly statements in this post.

Short answers: Things caused by DNA/hormones are rather obviously "natural," unless you believe DNA is a magic substance created by aliens from another universe; few non-vegetarians consider killing unambiguously wrong, since it's hard to get a hamburger without killing a cow; calling a fetus "living" is rather debatable; and have you ever heard of a concept called "rape"? How about a concept called "basic math," which could help you figure out that even if a method of birth control has a 99% success rate, it also has a 1% failure rate?

*sigh*
There, there. Have a cookie. It'll be okay. He's young an indiscriminate. He'll learn, or he won't -- worrying about it is only wasted energy.

I've already mentioned it to this person. He's looking pretty much to be a poop and run troll, probably some puppet.
I wouldn't be surprised. But this would be as bad as calling my country CarrieNation and advocating free booze for everyone.

There, there. Have a cookie. It'll be okay. He's young an indiscriminate. He'll learn, or he won't -- worrying about it is only wasted energy.

Oh, I know. Stupidity is just so darn depressing, though.

*munches cookie and feels better* :)

Now that's a strongly worded letter.

Not especially, no. To reiterate what I've said before, the Real AuH2O hated the Christofascists for their hijacking of the GOP. He supported abortion rights and homosexual rights, and was virtually excommunicated for it after the Christofascist takeover. We need a repeat of 1964's "take this party back".

This makes me weep....
Don't worry I'm sure
15% of the group are people who stay at home all day.
30% are Religious Fanatics
25% are above the age of 60.
29% are people who just love answering polls.
1% are people who are actually doing stuff in the REAL world during the day therefore they don't waste their time answering stupid polls.

Homosexuality is wrong.
abortion is wrong.
Helping people is good.
Cheating is bad.
respect is good.

such things are very biblical in nature.However none of these are found in your polls. If you take a look at polls from the same groups on some of those issues, you'll get results that contradict your statements. BTW, perhaps you could link to those polls. I wouldn't mind knowing how many people participated in them and what the error bar was.

Not especially, no. To reiterate what I've said before, the Real AuH2O hated the Christofascists for their hijacking of the GOP. He supported abortion rights and homosexual rights, and was virtually excommunicated for it after the Christofascist takeover. We need a repeat of 1964's "take this party back".
*applauds*

Hell yeah.

Don't worry I'm sure
15% of the group are people who stay at home all day.
30% are Religious Fanatics
25% are above the age of 60.
29% are people who just love answering polls.
1% are people who are actually doing stuff in the REAL world during the day therefore they don't waste their time answering stupid polls.
Very good point. I notice I don't seem to get poll calls at work.

Homosexuality is wrong.
abortion is wrong.
Helping people is good.
Cheating is bad.
respect is good.

such things are very biblical in nature.
Killing innocent Iraqis is wrong.
The US has the highest poverty rate in the OECD, and that is wrong.
45,000,000 Americans don't have health coverage but the US can spend $300 Billion destroying Iraq, and that is wrong.
With the current foreign policy of the US, respect for the US is in decline, and that is bad.
The US vetoed a UN Resolution that could have save the lives of hundreds of Lebanese and that is wrong.
The response to Katrina was wrong.
Denying people their human rights is wrong.
Cheating and lying is bad.
There is more but that should suffice for now.

I also believe in God, but there appears to be a disconnect huge between your God and mine?

Homosexuality is wrong.
abortion is wrong.
Helping people is good.
Cheating is bad.
respect is good.

such things are very biblical in nature.

So..you think that, say, Leviticus, for instance, is perfectly acceptable as a guidline for proper behaviour and sexual conduct?

I mean..its THE BIBLE, right?

Infallible, right?

THE SECULAR AGENDA OF THE NEO LEFT HAS FAILED MISERABLY. CHRISTIANITY IS STILL THE MORAL ANCHOR OF AMERICA AND NOTHING WILL CHANGE THAT.
And that makes me sad. I've been telling my wife for a long time I wanted to pack and move to New Zealand. Maybe once I'm out of the Navy, we will. People there seem to be less retarded. And I hear they have cute sheep, too. ;)

America most certainly is lost, because few Christians outside it would recognise its culture as Christian. And believe me, I know a few.

And that makes me sad. I've been telling my wife for a long time I wanted to pack and move to New Zealand. Maybe once I'm out of the Navy, we will. People there seem to be less retarded. And I hear they have cute sheep, too. ;)

Don't let the poor silly Christofascist with the name of an anti-Christofascist and his unsourced "data" run you out of the country.

So..you think that, say, Leviticus, for instance, is perfectly acceptable as a guidline for proper behaviour and sexual conduct?

I mean..its THE BIBLE, right?

Infallible, right?

http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_law/sexual_discharges/lv15_16a.html

Don't let the poor silly Christofascist with the name of an anti-Christofascist and his unsourced "data" run you out of the country.
I know. But it's the very vocal minority that gets heard the most. He's not the only person who believes it and they're all mobilized in this country to force their religious-bigot ideas down the rest of our throats. People in other countries think we all believe this because that's all they get to hear of us. Those rational among us can't muster enough people willing to put in the effort required to shut them up.

And that makes me sad. :(

EDIT: Spelling. I think my keyboard's going out.

48% belive that people who have strong religious beliefs are being persecuted in America ( up from 36% in 2004)

Idiots. Why do fundies think that they're being persecuted whenever they're not allowed to persecute other people? It's always "OMG! Now non-Christian children aren't forced to pray in school! That's persecution!!"

Gallup Poll. Aug. 8-11, 2005
76% support a Constitutional amendment to allow school prayer

Students ARE allowed to pray in school whenever they want as long as they don't disrupt everyone else's education; what they AREN'T allowed to do is to force everyone else to pray as well.


55% believe that every word in the Bible is accurate
60% believe the story of Noah
61% believe in genesis' version of creation
only 38% believe that humans evolved from an earlier species

Proof that the education system is failing.

Idiots. Why do fundies think that they're being persecuted whenever they're not allowed to persecute other people? It's always "OMG! Now non-Christian children aren't forced to pray in school! That's persecution!!"
It started with the frakking Puritans. They didn't want religious freedom for EVERYONE. They wanted it for themselves. They were all about ridiculing and persecuting other religions once they had the CofE of their backs. Link (http://www.thefileroom.org/documents/dyn/DisplayCase.cfm/id/255)


Students ARE allowed to pray in school whenever they want as long as they don't disrupt everyone else's education; what they AREN'T allowed to do is to force everyone else to pray as well.
Amen. (So to speak.)

Further proof that the education system is failing.
Corrected. :)

EDIT: Link posted before people start yelling SOURCE!

Let me guess these figures were produced by Fox Network?

Let me guess these figures were produced by Fox Network?
From O'Reilly's ass to our eyes.

Let me guess these figures were produced by Fox Network?No, they're proably real polls. But it would still be interesting what size the polled audience was.

THE SECULAR AGENDA OF THE NEO LEFT HAS FAILED MISERABLY. CHRISTIANITY IS STILL THE MORAL ANCHOR OF AMERICA AND NOTHING WILL CHANGE THAT.
No, you will find that it's succeeding if you compare these figures to the stats from 40 years ago, 20 years ago.

Homosexuality is wrong.
Judge not lest ye be judged.
Asshole
abortion is wrong.
"...Men'ahem sacked Tappuah and all who were in it and its territory from Tirzah on; because they did not open it to him, therefore he sacked it, and ripped up all the women in it who were with child."
..........2 Kings 15:16

Helping people is good.
"Happy shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rock!"
..........Psalms 137:9

such things are very biblical in nature.

Evidently

"However, we have a different goal: the Son of God, true man. He is the measure of true humanism. Being an "Adult" means having a faith which does not follow the waves of today's fashions or the latest novelties. A faith which is deeply rooted in friendship with Christ is adult and mature. It is this friendship which opens us up to all that is good and gives us the knowledge to judge true from false, and deceit from truth. We must become mature in this adult faith; we must guide the flock of Christ to this faith. And it is this faith - only faith - which creates unity and takes form in love."-Pope Benedict XVI

until loony Howard Dean realizes that the American people have not been swayed his party will continue to lose. The arrogance displayed on this forum towards Christians is evidence of why the backlash is occuring.
You don't get it do you. Your faith in war, capitalism and the Republican party is exactly the kind of thing the Pope is talking about. You are defying Jesus Christ our Lord by using Him as a ball in your political football games. You are defying Him when you distort his words beyond recognition to justify murder and the economic humiliation of humans.

Homosexuality is wrong.
abortion is wrong.
Helping people is good.
Cheating is bad.
respect is good.

such things are very biblical in nature.
It's telling that you rate homosexuality and abortion in importance before charity and respect. Your agenda is political. Stop pretending that it's religious.

Um...yeah, we used to be slightly more religious, according to data. if anything, we have lost some fundamentalist spirit. Comparing us to terrorist states is not really fair either, although you may be sarcastic..I'm not sure.
Your political beliefs are much closer to those of Saudi and Iran than the prevailing beliefs of the left in Europe.

Barry, this forum isn't your personal soapbox. Stop creating useless threads just to tell everyone THE FUNDAMENTALIST RELIGIOUS RIGHT IS WINNING, BITCHES, I HAVE NUMBERS or you'll find yourself having some enforced forum holidays.