NationStates Jolt Archive

Ethiopia is a Christian and jewish nation. I'd be surpised if Israel doesn't send some help to them. I'd be even more suprised if we didn't either, seeing as how Somalia is full of Militants hostile to the US. Ethiopia is like the Israel of Africa. Where did the Queen of Sheba come from? (King David's wife? ) Ethiopia.






Somali militant urges holy war on Ethiopia By MOHAMED OLAD HASSAN, Associated Press Writer
30 minutes ago



BAIDOA, Somalia - Somalia's top Islamic leader called Friday for a holy war against Ethiopia to drive out troops the largely Christian nation sent to protect the internationally backed Somali government.

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The radical Islamic forces control more of Somalia than the government, and have made clear they consider themselves the legitimate authority in the country.

Sheik Hassan Dahir Aweys, in an angry radio broadcast, said Ethiopia deployed troops to the government's base in Baidoa, 150 miles northwest of Mogadishu, to bolster what he described as a puppet regime.

He said President Abdullahi Yusuf, his longtime rival, has "been a servant of Ethiopia for a long time."

"I am calling on the Somali people to wage a holy war against Ethiopians in Baidoa," said Aweys, who is accused by the U.S. government of ties to al-Qaida. "They came to protect a government which they set up to advance their interests."

"We must defend our sovereignty," he declared on Radio Shabelle.

The Islamic group organized anti-Ethiopia demonstrations Friday in the capital, Mogadishu, and militiamen shot dead two people who joined a daring counter-demonstration.

Residents of Baidoa reported seeing hundreds of Ethiopian troops, in uniform and in marked armored vehicles, entering the city on Thursday and taking up positions around President Yusuf's compound.

Ethiopian and Somali government officials have denied Ethiopian troops are in the country, though witnesses from five towns have reported seeing them. The government's deputy information minister, Salad Ali Jeele, maintained Friday that people were seeing government militia wearing uniforms given to them by Ethiopia.

Reliance on Ethiopia appears to make the government beholden to the country's traditional enemy and hurts its legitimacy. Anti-Ethiopia sentiment still runs high in much of this almost entirely Muslim country, which is why the government and Ethiopia, a mostly Christian nation, may want to keep the troop deployment quiet.

The neighboring countries are traditional enemies, although Somalia's president has asked Ethiopia for its support.

The Ethiopians kept off the streets of Baidoa for most of Friday. Residents saw them move in trucks between their positions earlier in the day, said Salah Adow, a resident in the town.

Pro-government militiamen set up an extra check point on the road leading to the capital to bolster security in Baidoa. Militias were not patrolling the streets, except for armed escorts of government officials.

Residents of Baidoa appeared unfazed by the presence of Ethiopian troops. Tensions sparked by fears of attacks by Islamic militants earlier in the week eased Friday in the town.

Ethiopia's move could give the internationally recognized Somali government its only chance of curbing the Islamic militia's increasing power. But the incursion could also be just the pretext the militiamen need to build public support for a guerrilla war.

If the competition for power should become violent, there is little doubt that Ethiopia has the superior fighting force. Ethiopia sent troops into Somalia in 1993 and 1996 to quash Islamic militants attempting to establish a religious government.

Somalia has been without an effective central government since warlords toppled dictator Mohamed Siad Barre in 1991 and then turned on each other, carving much of the country into armed camps ruled by violence and clan law.

The interim government has been weakened by internal rivalries and is distrusted by some Somalis because it includes warlords linked to past violence and instability. The Islamic group portrays itself as a new force capable of bringing order and unity.

The United States on Thursday urged Ethiopia to exercise restraint and said the European Union, the United States, the African Union, the Arab League and others in an international contact group on Somalia will meet soon to consider the volatile situation.

U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan expressed concerns about the increased tensions near Baidoa and urged dialogue, according to a U.N. statement Thursday.

On Wednesday, the Islamic militia reached within 20 miles of Baidoa, prompting the government to go on high alert. The militia began pulling back Thursday as more than 400 Ethiopian troops entered Baidoa.

The United States has accused the Supreme Islamic Courts Council of links to al-Qaida that include sheltering suspects in the deadly 1998 bombings of U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. In a recent Internet posting, al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden urged Somalis to support the militants and warned nations not to send troops here.

The Islamic militia has installed strict religious courts, sparking fears it will become a Taliban-style regime.

Old news for some of us knew they wanted this a few days ago.

Frankly, I think those militants will not take over the entire country but will have a split situation like there is in Sudan. In fact, I'm expecting a similar problem in Somalia as there is in Sudan.

Helping anyone out there fight anyone else would be stupid and counterproductive. The countries out there are barely functioning as it is, giving selected warlords money and weapons would be no guarantee that the end use will be what was promised, or intended. Plus, on at least one side it would breed hatred against the wealthy backers. This is how international terrorism is made.

No-one is under any obligation to help anyone out there. We step in, we will make the destruction worse, and broaden the political fallout. The wise thing to do would be to keep the situation limited to just another transient low-level local conflict.

Ethiopia is a Christian and jewish nation. I'd be surpised if Israel doesn't send some help to them. I'd be even more suprised if we didn't either, seeing as how Somalia is full of Militants hostile to the US. Ethiopia is like the Israel of Africa. Where did the Queen of Sheba come from? (King David's wife? ) Ethiopia.
When has Israel or America ever helped Ethiopia in its wars before? They don't have much of a compelling interest to do so. Being Christian is not usually a sufficiently compelling interest for America to help.

And yes, Somalia is going the way of the Taliban.

Is this really surprising news? Somalia is being invaded by Ethiopia, and even if the international community doesn't recognise the Islamic Courts as the ruling power, the Somalian people do. Somalia and Ethiopia have been at each other's throats for a while now, and the Somalians dislike and distrust the Ethiopians. And, if there is anything history has taught us, it is that religion is an excellent tool for rabble-rousing and then unifying said rabble. A fight not only for worldly things but also a spiritual goal will sway people who otherwise would not have fought. The Islamist groups in the Middle East know it, the Crusaders knew it, and apparently the Somalians know it too.

This is why we should stay the hell out of Somalia. The situation there would be made no better by involvement from the western world, and by setting ourselves against a holy war we would inevitably give Somalian Muslims who would otherwise pose no threat to us a grievance against us and an incentive to join terrorist organisations and strike against western people.

Is this really surprising news? Somalia is being invaded by Ethiopia, and even if the international community doesn't recognise the Islamic Courts as the ruling power, the Somalian people do. Somalia and Ethiopia have been at each other's throats for a while now, and the Somalians dislike and distrust the Ethiopians. And, if there is anything history has taught us, it is that religion is an excellent tool for rabble-rousing and then unifying said rabble. A fight not only for worldly things but also a spiritual goal will sway people who otherwise would not have fought. The Islamist groups in the Middle East know it, the Crusaders knew it, and apparently the Somalians know it too.

This is why we should stay the hell out of Somalia. The situation there would be made no better by involvement from the western world, and by setting ourselves against a holy war we would inevitably give Somalian Muslims who would otherwise pose no threat to us a grievance against us and an incentive to join terrorist organisations and strike against western people.

One slight problem Taldaan. That problem is that the UN Backed government of Somalia asked for help. So since they asked for help, how is it an invasion when both Ethiopia and the UN Backed Somali government are both going to be fighting militant muslims?

One slight problem Taldaan. That problem is that the UN Backed government of Somalia asked for help. So since they asked for help, how is it an invasion when both Ethiopia and the UN Backed Somali government are both going to be fighting militant muslims?

Perhaps I worded my original post wrongly. It will be seen as an invasion by the Islamic Courts who, like it or not, control practically all of the country and the people, and also the citizens of Somalia. In their place I'm pretty sure I'd be pissed off at the Ethiopians too. Seeing as the UN-backed government has no way to stop them any more, the Somali militias will fight the Ethiopian forces, and it suits their leaders to declare it a holy war for the PR benefits.

Ethiopia is a Christian and jewish nation. I'd be surpised if Israel doesn't send some help to them. I'd be even more suprised if we didn't either, seeing as how Somalia is full of Militants hostile to the US.


I think both the US and Israel military are a bit busy at the moment. Someone else like the UN or EU will just have to take care of this one.

I think both the US and Israel military are a bit busy at the moment. Someone else like the UN or EU will just have to take care of this one.
Luckily, Europe is out of the business of fighting wars. Took the world centuries to achieve, hundreds of millions died before it finally happened, but now we're going to stay at home, crack open a beer and watch some TV. :D

Luckily, Europe is out of the business of fighting wars. Took the world centuries to achieve, hundreds of millions died before it finally happened, but now we're going to stay at home, crack open a beer and watch some TV. :D

Which is why no one trusts Europe when the world goes to hell for you do stay home. Luckily there are other European Countries who do not stay home but do the proper thing in making sure that the world stays safe from dictators.

Which is why no one trusts Europe when the world goes to hell for you do stay home. Luckily there are other European Countries who do not stay home but do the proper thing in making sure that the world stays safe from dictators.
Oh please. The history of Europe fighting wars overseas is one of tyranny, not freedom. I wouldn't trust anyone to "do the right thing" with an expeditionary force of any sort.

Oh please. The history of Europe fighting wars overseas is one of tyranny, not freedom. I wouldn't trust anyone to "do the right thing" with an expeditionary force of any sort.

In the past yes that is true but lately? It is apparent that most of those who do fight overseas are fighting for freedom despite what you might think.

Oh please. The history of Europe fighting wars overseas is one of tyranny, not freedom. I wouldn't trust anyone to "do the right thing" with an expeditionary force of any sort.
Just because you are an isolationist doesnt mean others in your country/continent are. Some people, when they see others in dire need of help, will come to the rescue, because thats the good thing to do, morally, regardless of religion or beleif.:)

In the past yes that is true but lately? It is apparent that most of those who do fight overseas are fighting for freedom despite what you might think.

Freedom only appears to be a concern when fossil fuels are in dire peril and need liberating from their oppressive, dictatorial overlords. The "spreading democracy" soundbite got old a long time ago, and has been disproved countless times. The only counterargument has been "stfu, terrorist-loving liberal communist!"

In the past yes that is true but lately? It is apparent that most of those who do fight overseas are fighting for freedom despite what you might think.
Agreed.

Freedom only appears to be a concern when fossil fuels are in dire peril and need liberating from their oppressive, dictatorial overlords. The "spreading democracy" soundbite got old a long time ago, and has been disproved countless times. The only counterargument has been "stfu, terrorist-loving liberal communist!"
You know, its funny you say that when we havnt taken any oil from Iraq.

You know, its funny you say that when we havnt taken any oil from Iraq.

Yeah, its a bit difficult to take anything out of that clusterfuck that you call a liberated nation.

Luckily, Europe is out of the business of fighting wars. Took the world centuries to achieve, hundreds of millions died before it finally happened, but now we're going to stay at home, crack open a beer and watch some TV. :D

I don't think so. GB is in Iraq and Afghanistan. NATO, which is made up of American and European forces are in Afghanistan. :eek: No, Europe isn't out of the business of fighting wars.

In the past yes that is true but lately? It is apparent that most of those who do fight overseas are fighting for freedom despite what you might think.
Not really. The vast majority of conflicts taking place in the world today, are sectarian or resource wars. There are for example, between four and six different foreign parties conducting 'interventions' in the DRC, some being paid in uncut diamonds and other minerals. Beyond the safe confines of Europe and the continental US, there are dozens of troublespots, with a whole number of places where local interventionism is anything but benign. Ethiopia vs. Eritrea Episodes 1 and 2 is one such conflict. Ethiopia vs Somalia is shaping up to be the same. The only reason anyone is taking any notice this time, is that radical islam is suddenly topical. But you will find that if you take a good look around, that sort of conflict is routine. Wars of that sort have been waged forever.

Most of those fighting overseas are fighting for dogma, or someone's profit.

Now why should we join in? Sure, we can claim to be democracies, we can claim some sort of legitimacy through the UN, but is it any of our business? How do we choose whom we back? The side that promises to be most useful afterwards? What impact does that sort of deal have on the integrity of the intervention?

If you intervene with military rather than aid, you have to crush both sides, otherwise you are picking a side in someone else's war, are no longer neutral, and deserve all consequences arising.

In the past yes that is true but lately? It is apparent that most of those who do fight overseas are fighting for freedom despite what you might think.
roflcopters!

All any country has ever fought for is self interest, not altruism.

roflcopters!

All any country has ever fought for is self interest, not altruism.

So what is NATO's self-interest in Afghanistan?

So what is NATO's self-interest in Afghanistan?
Avoiding political embarrassment. They would have preferred a natural gas pipeline and the cessation of heroin production, but that's never going to happen. The current UK deployment is actually very unpopular here, it nearly became a serious political scandal. The sad thing is, Blair can order it without a vote.

What we are getting out of it, is politicians fulfilling obligations to each other, of which we are not fully aware.

The US has no great history of saving countries or regions since WWII. The War on Terror has replaced the Cold War as an excuse for destructive foreign policy and inefficient foreign aid. The last thing we should do now is open another front against a Muslim country, regardless of the circumstances.

Luckily, Europe is out of the business of fighting wars. Took the world centuries to achieve, hundreds of millions died before it finally happened, but now we're going to stay at home, crack open a beer and watch some TV. :D


Dont forget complaining about the US invading or blowing up something ..or supporting israel while chugging some mugs .:D


Realy whats France doing lately ? Fhey can send some french guys over to Somalia ..teach the taliban how to surrender and the Italians are not doing anything..they have some experiance in ethiopia..they can teach them how to not fight . then its all good..send some Canadians in with the beer and peacekeeping duty .


sounds like a plan .

too many friggin wars already..its getting tiresome...gotta learn how to spread this shit out a bit...

Realy whats France doing lately ? France is currently deployed in Afghanistan and is about to head the mission for securing the first real elections in the Democratic Republic of Congo in 40 years alongside other European countries.

God forbid "the other side of the story" report about it in such a manner that people hear about it though...

France is currently deployed in Afghanistan and is about to head the mission for securing the first real elections in the Democratic Republic of Congo in 40 years alongside other European countries.

God forbid "the other side of the story" report about it in such a manner that people hear about it though...



Cool ..you think they can spare some time for Somalia ? Maybe throw some Belgians in with them .

It would be nice to hear some positive french stories..instead of all the people who actually earn money moving because of taxes..riots and other dumb stuff . viva la France !

Cool ..you think they can spare some time for Somalia ? Maybe throw some Belgians in with them .I doubt it. No one's been interested in Somalia for a while now. As TG stated, there's nothing there. The only things going on are the patrols of the Horn of Africa that have been going on since the Afghanistan operation.

It would be nice to hear some positive french stories..instead of all the people who actually earn money moving because of taxes..riots and other dumb stuff . viva la France !That would be the problem of the media you consult. In my experience, reporting about positive French achievements, military or otherwise, doesn't seem to be a "quota getter", so it doesn't receive that much attention. Negative stuff is quite popular, however. (And that would be "Vive la France" ;) )

Yeah, its a bit difficult to take anything out of that clusterfuck that you call a liberated nation.
Whatever, you were arguing that we were liberation to take oil..I called you on your bullshit. The problems in Iraq have nothing to do with our conversation.

Somalians distrust the current government ever since it was created in Kenya (a neighboring country to Somalia). The man that was elected as the president (Mr. Abdullahi Yusuf) was an anarchist general while Somalia was intact (he tried to lead a coup while Somalia was in a war with Ethiopia). When that coup was foiled, he ran to Ethiopia, leaving his loyal fellow traitors to their fate. Fifteen years ago, Somalia broke down (civil war) and fifteen years fast-forward, Mr. Abdullahi Yusuf is vying to become the president of Somalia and who is he's sole backer? ETHIOPIA (wow, aint that a surprise). He's no different from the other warlords that were kicked out of Mogadishu on June 5 (Some of those warlords confessed that America supplied them $100,000 a month). Somalians support the Islamic Courts because they see them as their saviors from those warlords who kept Somalia in the dark for 15 years. These warlords kept the country's airports, ports, hotels, villas, banks, and almost everything else to themselves. How would non-Somalis feel if they experienced this horrific scenario? For 15 years of turmoil, the closes western intervention was the UN and US assistance in operation restore hope
(http://www.opendemocracy.net/content/articles/PDF/2041.pdf) (http://www.voiceoftheturtle.org/show_article.php?aid=172) and they left the country when the tough got going. All those years without any news coverage of any sorts, the Somalians have felt that they were forgotten but they remained resolute. They searched for something that will put an end to this chaos (looting, murder, clan-warfare, arms race, and etc) and guess who stood up and challenged these warlords? the Islamic Courts. The Islamic Courts are made up of different clan members who normally would be at each others throats if it weren't for the only unifying thing in Somalia, religion. Aside religion, Somalians will be quick to deny each other as a common people because of the clan affiliation (blood lineage). As the Islamic Courts are gaining support from the oppressed Somalians, Western nations stick their nose at what is going on within Somalia (ever since Somalia was abandoned by its ally the US and the UN) ever since things are turning better, and they are quick to disapprove the Islamic Courts. This move (Western nations being against the Islamic Courts) only make the Somalians more suspicious, what do these Western countries want, the status quos? Most Somalians now believe that Western governments along with Ethiopia (as their lap dog) who appose the Islamic Courts also appose a Somalia without Anarchy, a Somalia without warlords. If I would have to say to the Somali people in Somalia, you finally found an antidote to the civil war issue and some nations don’t like what you’re doing for yourselves, so pay no mind and move on.

DesignatedMarksman, you are very quick to apply your ideology to the conflict of two nations you know next-to-nothing about.

People get all worked up about the ICU, saying things like its going to be the next Taleban. Unlikely, although they are Islamists they are scarcely interested in anything more than 'maintaining order'. However, the Somali political culture is highly hesitant of this, which leads me to believe that soon the ICU will slip up, and its support will waver, and it will fall back into obscurity.

There is always tension between Somalia and Ethiopia, simply because Ethiopia views Somalia as part of Greater Ethiopia - and Somilia views Ethiopia as part of Greater Somalia... most of their history has involved the one trying to conquer the other. This current posturing is not out of the ordinary, the Balance of Power is accute and won't be put off by either party easily.

Holy wars are ironically, never holy. :p

So what is NATO's self-interest in Afghanistan?


Ummm dude the US ONLY fights for its own best interest . Or to protect itself...something you may conclude very safely is in its own best interest.

Protecting the free flow of energy..best interest
Protecting small countries from being invaded..provide they are resource rich or controll a strategic area ..own best interest.
protecting a bunch of starving africans from being chopped to hamburger..
When did that happen ?
creating a Democracy in Iraq...a country in a very strategic location in the Middle East and a staging area against our future target in Iran..own best interest times ten .

I cant think of a war INCLUDING WW II that wasnt in the best interest of the US . Can you ?

Ummm dude the US ONLY fights for its own best interest . Or to protect itself...something you may conclude very safely is in its own best interest.

Protecting the free flow of energy..best interest
Protecting small countries from being invaded..provide they are resource rich or controll a strategic area ..own best interest.
protecting a bunch of starving africans from being chopped to hamburger..
When did that happen ?
creating a Democracy in Iraq...a country in a very strategic location in the Middle East and a staging area against our future target in Iran..own best interest times ten .

I cant think of a war INCLUDING WW II that wasnt in the best interest of the US . Can you ?

Exactly.

. Where did the Queen of Sheba come from? (King David's wife? ) Ethiopia.

I always though the Queen of Sheba came really from the Yemen not Ethiopia

So what is NATO's self-interest in Afghanistan?
Obligations to the alliance. If they don't serve the alliance, especially when its most powerful member is attacked, there would probably be economic and diplomatic sanctions.