NationStates Jolt Archive

I am seriously considering starting a new Christian denominsation. Below are the Beliefs, Rules, and Practices, plus Church Rulings. Please do not start debating the validity of any of the statements, or the truth of them , or anything like that. Please just tell me - would you consider joining this Denomination, and if so, how can it be set up?.............

Dedication Christianity

A new form of Christianity.

BELIEFS:


That there is one God, a union of the Father, the Son (Jesus), and the Holy Spirit, and that God is assisted by Angels, humans, and animals

That invoking the name of Jesus has the power to ward off evil spirits

That Jesus died so that we may all be saved from major suffering (or any suffering) in the afterlife for our sins, but that if we continue to do bad things, it harms or may harm Jesus

That all or most living beings on earth have psychic abilities, particularly the ability to predict future events (sometimes in scarce or not fully accurate detail, but usually enough detail to be able to take preventative measures to prevent the event), and that this power must be tapped into

That there are only two true books – the Old Testament and the New Testament, in their original translations, and that these are the only books to be followed, though they are not believed to be totally free from errors


RULES


Abstaining from alcohol and smoking – this is because Dedication Christians believe that God did not make a mistake in creation, thus the human body is a good creation from God and must therefore not be deliberately harmed, subject to certain exceptions (eg. to save a life)

Abstaining from eating animal products – three reasons: One, that animals have souls and so should not be harmed (and the practice of obtaining animal ingredients without killing animals can be harmful); and Two, Genesis 1:29, which states: “God said, "Indeed, I give you all the grasses which reproduce by seed which are on the face of the whole earth, and all the trees which have fruits of the tree and which reproduce by seed -- they shall be food for you” – they shall be food for you, not animals... and Three, that animals have feelings, can care for each other, and can become distressed and/or upset when their loved ones are taken from them or/and harmed

No harm to others as a result of deliberate or reckless behaviour

Responding in a peaceful manner to confrontation, unless the situation develops, or has developed, to a point where physical response is necessary to prevent or/and stop harm to yourself or another

Each member must treat others with respect, regardless of their religion or lack of religion

***the following two rules are no longer rules, just expected practices that can be left up to the individual but will be encouraged***

Each member must partake in a course of thorough Bible Study

Each member must meditate daily at a set time


PRACTICES


Voluntary work – any member who has regular employment (as it is recognised that the need to look after yourself is perhaps a need that must be dealt with in order to assist others) is expected to take part in voluntary work when free time is available

Donating money and helping others – each member is expected to donate money to the church if they are able to afford to do so, to other Christian churches and other religions if they are able to afford to do so, to charity organisations of they are able to afford to do so, and to those who are in need (if the Dedication Christian is able to afford to do so). Dedication Christians are also expected to help people in other ways – for example by donating clothes, offering accommodation, etc.


RULINGS (all further rulings are to be decided by three Church Guides (or one Church Guide plus two Church Members per each unavailable Church Guide) – Church Guides, with the exception of the first Church Guide (who is the founder of this denomination of Christianity), are to be nominated, then of each nominated person, the current Church Guides will choose the new Church Guides)


NUDITY: Nudity is acceptable – for two reasons: One, we are born nude, and two, the Bible clearly states that God created man in His own image, and that Adam and Eve were both naked and were not ashamed.

HOMOSEXUALITY and other sexualities other than heterosexual: As long as it causes no harm to others, it is acceptable.

HITTING CHILDREN: It is not acceptable, unless absolutely necessary in an urgent situation (for example, to prevent a child from death – but NOT just to show a child that doing something dangerous is wrong). Example 1: A child is about to run towards a cliff and jump off. Negotiating has not worked, nor has restraining said child. In that scenario, to prevent loss of life, hitting is acceptable. Example 2: A child has tried to crawl into a fire. The child can easily be removed from the source of danger. In that scenario, hitting is NOT acceptable.

ABORTION: Only acceptable if the child is a result of sexual or sexually-related violence (rape, for example).

no, because it's too legalistic. ;)

It sounds pretty fair, though I take objection to the last two rules because people in a religion should WANT to do something because they believe in it, not because they MUST.

I think it sounds good, but, you could include a clause about this religion being about people believing and doing as the religion says because they truly want to, not because they have to.

I can think for myself. Thanks anyway.

No. You said not to debate the validity of your beliefs, so I cannot provide a reason without mocking them.

No, I would not, and I'm already a liberal Christian.

It sounds pretty fair, though I take objection to the last two rules because people in a religion should WANT to do something because they believe in it, not because they MUST.

I think it sounds good, but, you could include a clause about this religion being about people believing and doing as the religion says because they truly want to, not because they have to.

Good point. They will be removed as rules.

Now I won't for I do not accept your stance on homosexuality as it does goes against the Bible. I also believe in displine and thus spanking him when he does wrong.

No, because you said, "Please do not start debating the validity of any of the statements, or the truth of them , or anything like that." That automatically taints you and any organization you create.

Random!

You do understand the point of religion (in theory) is that these are the rules God wants us to follow. If you're gonna make up an incoherant set of values you agree with atleast pretend God spoke to you or you found a magical book with these teachings.

I think it's refreshing to at least see somebody owning up to the fact that they're pulling it out of their ass.


Other wise you're just telling people how to live their life and you don't even have the threat of eternal hell for not following them. :rolleyes:
They'll fill all that in later. That's how these things are done. ;)

No, because you said, "Please do not start debating the validity of any of the statements, or the truth of them , or anything like that." That automatically taints you and any organization you create.

What I said was just for the purpose of this board - I'm sure you know how things can scale off topic massively. I just want to find out whether anyone would be interested in joining and how to set it up. Once there's enough replies, people can debate all they want :)

No, because you said, "Please do not start debating the validity of any of the statements, or the truth of them , or anything like that." That automatically taints you and any organization you create.
which is also why my reply was so short.

Now I won't for I do not accept your stance on homosexuality as it does goes against the Bible. I also believe in displine and thus spanking him when he does wrong.

I asked people not to talk about the validity o the statements at this stage. Since you have done so, I must at least respond to the latter - there can be (as has been shown many times) discipline without hitting. Discipline does not automatically equal hitting.

I asked people not to talk about the validity o the statements at this stage. Since you have done so, I must at least respond to the latter - there can be (as has been shown many times) discipline without hitting. Discipline does not automatically equal hitting.

A good swift twap on the butt is enough to get their attention. I should know. My parents did it to me.

What I said was just for the purpose of this board - I'm sure you know how things can scale off topic massively. I just want to find out whether anyone would be interested in joining and how to set it up. Once there's enough replies, people can debate all they want :)
you start your own denomination by finding people who agree with your interpretation of the Bible and start meeting with them, when you get your own church you name it what you want to, and then you have a church, after that your church grows, you split it up, start new churches in other communities ect.


My friend started her own denomination, they have 10 churches around my state now.

I don't go, I don't agree with their view, but they seem to have no problems finding members who will believe whatever crap she shovels to them. ;)

That's plain retarded and it believes in Jesus. No. Never. Please never again.

What I said was just for the purpose of this board - I'm sure you know how things can scale off topic massively. I just want to find out whether anyone would be interested in joining and how to set it up. Once there's enough replies, people can debate all they want :)
In that case,

No, because it's just the same recycled stuff I've come across in many other religious groups (Christian and otherwise).

No, because many of the stated precepts are logically or empirically flawed in painfully obvious ways. (Won't go into details because you said not to)

And, most importantly, No, because you've provided absolutely no reason why I should. I'm not in the habit of joining superstitious cults simply because somebody asked me to in an internet forum.

Good point. They will be removed as rules.
You could put them as beliefs, since it does still apply to your religion.

The meditation could be used as a medium to relax and connect with God on a personal level when you're able to take the time.

The class would also be optional, but, it could be a practice, since it would help the followers understand their religion better.

I'll pass.

that should be enough replies.... debate all you want :)

as for "tapping a kid on the butt", as I suggested, there is no need for it. Other kinds of discipline are available as long as there is a proper family structure, without hitting a kid and thus saying that hitting people is O.K. when they don't do what you want

oh and thanks for the replies

No. I doubt very seriously that I'll ever officially join any denomination because, just like your ideas, there are always portions I think are wrong. I don't need or want others to dictate my religion to me.

Abstaining from eating animal products – three reasons: One, that animals have souls and so should not be harmed (and the practice of obtaining animal ingredients without killing animals can be harmful); and Two, Genesis 1:29, which states: “God said, "Indeed, I give you all the grasses which reproduce by seed which are on the face of the whole earth, and all the trees which have fruits of the tree and which reproduce by seed -- they shall be food for you” – they shall be food for you, not animals... and Three, that animals have feelings, can care for each other, and can become distressed and/or upset when their loved ones are taken from them or/and harmed
What is this, PETA-costalism? :p

...

And, most importantly, No, because you've provided absolutely no reason why I should. I'm not in the habit of joining superstitious cults simply because somebody asked me to in an internet forum.

It's a religion based mostly on my interpretation of the Bible, just as other religious groups are based on their interpretations of a particular book

no

i would only join a denomination that emphasizes the spirit of love and forgiveness found in the gospels. yours concentrates on the wrong things.

I can get along just fine with God without people telling me what He says.

that should be enough replies.... debate all you want :)

as for "tapping a kid on the butt", as I suggested, there is no need for it. Other kinds of discipline are available as long as there is a proper family structure, without hitting a kid and thus saying that hitting people is O.K. when they don't do what you want

oh and thanks for the replies
discipline and punishment are two completely different things.

that should be enough replies.... debate all you want :)

as for "tapping a kid on the butt", as I suggested, there is no need for it. Other kinds of discipline are available as long as there is a proper family structure, without hitting a kid and thus saying that hitting people is O.K. when they don't do what you want

oh and thanks for the replies

Ok then....I guess you were never spanked? Really....sometimes spanking is the only way to 1)get their attention and 2)they'll recognize they did something wrong.

And no...it does not tell them hitting people is ok.

Very well. Humans cannot predict the future. I approach this from an empirical viewpoint, but if you so wish, I can say that no Christian text has any evidence of this either. Therefore, you just made it up. You also made up the idea that saying "Jesus" can get rid of evil spirits. Do you have a posteriori knowledge of this? If not, you have provided two points that contradict both traditional Christian thought and rationality/science, all without providing a shred of backup, either theological or empirical.

Ok then....I guess you were never spanked? Really....sometimes spanking is the only way to 1)get their attention and 2)they'll recognize they did something wrong.

And no...it does not tell them hitting people is ok.

Maybe you should start a new thread on spanking?

Ok then....I guess you were never spanked? Really....sometimes spanking is the only way to 1)get their attention and 2)they'll recognize they did something wrong.

And no...it does not tell them hitting people is ok.

I was hit as a kid. It taught me that I shouldn't bother with teachers when a kid in the playground annoys me. There are plenty of non-physical ways to punish/discipline people

I was hit as a kid. It taught me that I shouldn't bother with teachers when a kid in the playground annoys me. There are plenty of non-physical ways to punish/discipline people

Man oh man...you are sounding more and more like a teenager.

Very well. Humans cannot predict the future. I approach this from an empirical viewpoint, but if you so wish, I can say that no Christian text has any evidence of this either. Therefore, you just made it up. You also made up the idea that saying "Jesus" can get rid of evil spirits. Do you have a posteriori knowledge of this? If not, you have provided two points that contradict both traditional Christian thought and rationality/science, all without providing a shred of backup, either theological or empirical.

I have personal experience of what I said about spirits. The Catholic church also uses the name of Jesus in excorcisms. And the dude who created Mormonism claimed God spoke to him... it seemed to work :)

Also, teachers do nothing about bullys. You either 1) have to knock them down or 2) ignore them.

Not a chance. It limits my freedom.

Man oh man...you are sounding more and more like a teenager.

Just because you don't agree with my views? How very mature. And I'm 23 thanks.

Maybe you should start a new thread on spanking?

I'm sure there's one already

I'm sure there's one already

Nope, only ones which are a few months old. Theres no point in gravedigging.

Just because you don't agree with my views? How very mature. And I'm 23 thanks.

Same age as me unless you were born in 1983. Here's a tip for ya....some kids won't understand they did wrong without a good twap on the butt. When you actually realize this, then maybe you'll become more mature and more wiser in the real world.

Multiland, if you haven't already I would suggest that you read about the Religious Society of Friends (Quakers).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_Society_of_Friends

you start your own denomination by finding people who agree with your interpretation of the Bible and start meeting with them, when you get your own church you name it what you want to, and then you have a church, after that your church grows, you split it up, start new churches in other communities ect.


My friend started her own denomination, they have 10 churches around my state now.

I don't go, I don't agree with their view, but they seem to have no problems finding members who will believe whatever crap she shovels to them. ;)

Any more info about their denomination? Do they have a website to encourage new members? :)

I have personal experience of what I said about spirits. The Catholic church also uses the name of Jesus in excorcisms. And the dude who created Mormonism claimed God spoke to him... it seemed to work :)
You failed to address the first point. You claim that all humans have an innate ability to predict the future. I do not. This leaves two options:

1. You are wrong,
2. I am not human.

Since I'm fairly certain that I'm human, you must be wrong. QED.

Same age as me unless you were born in 1983. Here's a tip for ya....some kids won't understand they did wrong without a good twap on the butt. When you actually realize this, then maybe you'll become more mature and more wiser in the real world.

I meant nearly 23

The kids who don't understand are usually the ones who have not been brought up in a structured environment (Dad says one thing, Mum says another, punishments are threatened but not carried oout, bribes are used, etc etc)

Look up "Supernanny".

You failed to address the first point. You claim that all humans have an innate ability to predict the future. I do not. This leaves two options:

1. You are wrong,
2. I am not human.
Oooh, go with the second one! You could be a mutant or an alien or something!

That would be so cool.

I meant nearly 23

The kids who don't understand are usually the ones who have not been brought up in a structured environment (Dad says one thing, Mum says another, punishments are threatened but not carried oout, bribes are used, etc etc)

Look up "Supernanny".

It is apparent you do not know that much about children at all. Do you have nieces or nephews or younger siblings?

It is apparent you do not know that much about children at all. Do you have nieces or nephews or younger siblings?
Corneliu, can't we just cut this short? If he was a 50 year old who'd reared 7 kids, all of whom grew up to be model citizens, you'd STILL be advocating spanking just as strongly.

I meant nearly 23

The kids who don't understand are usually the ones who have not been brought up in a structured environment (Dad says one thing, Mum says another, punishments are threatened but not carried oout, bribes are used, etc etc)

Look up "Supernanny".

Firstly, the term "structured family" is just a stupid fancy word which bares no meaning.

Secondly, the only way you can communicate properly to young children sometimes is through spanking. They will not understand why certain things are wrong, but they will understand that "if I do this i will get spanked".

It is apparent you do not know that much about children at all. Do you have nieces or nephews or younger siblings?

You know nothing about me so please don't make assumptions, thanks. I know plenty about children, I have younger sinblings, and I have worked in a school where one of the kids liked being very disruptive

That there is one God, a union of the Father, the Son (Jesus), and the Holy Spirit, and that God is assisted by Angels, humans, and animals
why does God need assistance?

That invoking the name of Jesus has the power to ward off evil spirits
scriptural backing?

That Jesus died so that we may all be saved from major suffering (or any suffering) in the afterlife for our sins, but that if we continue to do bad things, it harms or may harm Jesus
scriptural backing on the harming of Jesus?

That all or most living beings on earth have psychic abilities, particularly the ability to predict future events (sometimes in scarce or not fully accurate detail, but usually enough detail to be able to take preventative measures to prevent the event), and that this power must be tapped into
again scriptural backing? also scientific evidence? also, the Bible speaks very harshly against people trying to predict the future.

That there are only two true books – the Old Testament and the New Testament, in their original translations, and that these are the only books to be followed, though they are not believed to be totally free from errors
so we all have to learn Greek, hebrews, and everything else now too? also, if the originals are not free from errors how do you decide what is true and what is not?
Abstaining from alcohol and smoking – this is because Dedication Christians believe that God did not make a mistake in creation, thus the human body is a good creation from God and must therefore not be deliberately harmed, subject to certain exceptions (eg. to save a life)
do you have scriptural backing for this as well?
and what is the purpose in relation to your spiritual life?

Abstaining from eating animal products – three reasons: One, that animals have souls and so should not be harmed (and the practice of obtaining animal ingredients without killing animals can be harmful); and Two, Genesis 1:29, which states: “God said, "Indeed, I give you all the grasses which reproduce by seed which are on the face of the whole earth, and all the trees which have fruits of the tree and which reproduce by seed -- they shall be food for you” – they shall be food for you, not animals... and Three, that animals have feelings, can care for each other, and can become distressed and/or upset when their loved ones are taken from them or/and harmed

many things
1 scriptural backing on animals having souls?
2 the verse you quote is pre-animals, and the verse after says that animals are to eat the grains
3 scriptural and scientific backing on the animals feelings?
4 what does this have any affect on spiritual well being?
No harm to others as a result of deliberate or reckless behaviour
how is this spiritually significant?

Responding in a peaceful manner to confrontation, unless the situation develops, or has developed, to a point where physical response is necessary to prevent or/and stop harm to yourself or another
and who draws the line of 'necessary' ?

Each member must treat others with respect, regardless of their religion or lack of religion
what do you mean by respect? and what happens if they don't?


Each member must partake in a course of thorough Bible Study
define throrough

Each member must meditate daily at a set time
why?

Voluntary work – any member who has regular employment (as it is recognised that the need to look after yourself is perhaps a need that must be dealt with in order to assist others) is expected to take part in voluntary work when free time is available
why?

Donating money and helping others – each member is expected to donate money to the church if they are able to afford to do so, to other Christian churches and other religions if they are able to afford to do so, to charity organisations of they are able to afford to do so, and to those who are in need (if the Dedication Christian is able to afford to do so). Dedication Christians are also expected to help people in other ways – for example by donating clothes, offering accommodation, etc.
how do you choose whether or not you can afford it? what if you think you can't but another member thinks you can?






So far what I can tell is you have sketchy backing, and want to control my life for your own comfort. The entire thing is overly legalistic and I am not interested. ;)

NUDITY: Nudity is acceptable – for two reasons: One, we are born nude, and two, the Bible clearly states that God created man in His own image, and that Adam and Eve were both naked and were not ashamed.

HOMOSEXUALITY and other sexualities other than heterosexual: As long as it causes no harm to others, it is acceptable.

HITTING CHILDREN: It is not acceptable, unless absolutely necessary in an urgent situation (for example, to prevent a child from death – but NOT just to show a child that doing something dangerous is wrong). Example 1: A child is about to run towards a cliff and jump off. Negotiating has not worked, nor has restraining said child. In that scenario, to prevent loss of life, hitting is acceptable. Example 2: A child has tried to crawl into a fire. The child can easily be removed from the source of danger. In that scenario, hitting is NOT acceptable.
ABORTION: Only acceptable if the child is a result of sexual or sexually-related violence (rape, for example).

and what does any of that have to do with religion?

You had me until you got to vegetatian. The bible which the religion says it follows allows for meat.

And spanking (not beating) is still the best way to train a child. It is immediate making a connection between the action and the punishment. Having worked with children it is obvious which ones have been trained and which ones got "time out".

Seriously, dudes, do you want ME to make a spanking thread?

Firstly, the term "structured family" is just a stupid fancy word which bares no meaning.

Secondly, the only way you can communicate properly to young children sometimes is through spanking. They will not understand why certain things are wrong, but they will understand that "if I do this i will get spanked".

*feels sorry for you and others like you. and your kids*

Corneliu, can't we just cut this short? If he was a 50 year old who'd reared 7 kids, all of whom grew up to be model citizens, you'd STILL be advocating spanking just as strongly.


I second this motion to cut through the pointless arguing bullshit.

But thats only because I find the topic silly.

I often quite like pointless debate in other areas.

So...I'll shut up now.

But to everyone involved in this heated debate: smoke a fat joint and chill out, will you? Gods...

*feels sorry for you and others like you. and your kids*

I'm sorry but your fantasy that getting spanks caused phsychological scars inside me is bullshit.

You know nothing about me so please don't make assumptions, thanks. I know plenty about children, I have younger sinblings, and I have worked in a school where one of the kids liked being very disruptive

And i have 2 nieces, a nephew, and several little cousins who all know that if they do something wrong, they'll get spanked.

As to the disruptive kid in school...see what happens when they took corporal punishment out of schools? No displine in the classroom whatsoever.

You are right that I know nothing about you just like you don't know nothing about me.

I'm sorry but your fantasy that getting spanks caused phsychological scars inside me is bullshit.

did I say that? DID I? :mad:

did I say that? DID I? :mad:

Why else would you feel "sorry" for me?

Okay, I'm making a spanking thread. Then we can stop the collective hijack of this one, yes?

And i have 2 nieces, a nephew, and several little cousins who all know that if they do something wrong, they'll get spanked.

As to the disruptive kid in school...see what happens when they took corporal punishment out of schools? No displine in the classroom whatsoever.

You are right that I know nothing about you just like you don't know nothing about me.

There was never any bad behaviour in old schools then? You needa check your history. And the reasons why capital punishment in UK schools was outlawed. My point about the disruptive kid was that I was able to deal with him without even shouting, let alone violence

You had me until you got to vegetatian. The bible which the religion says it follows allows for meat.

And spanking (not beating) is still the best way to train a child. It is immediate making a connection between the action and the punishment. Having worked with children it is obvious which ones have been trained and which ones got "time out".

Precisely. It is very obvious even among college kids who were spanked or not.

Okay, I'm making a spanking thread. Then we can stop the collective hijack of this one, yes?

Yay. (I suggested it earlier but was ignored.)

Spanking thread is live. Go play. :)

I even included a poll! I'm feeling so helpful today!

There was never any bad behaviour in old schools then? You needa check your history. And the reasons why capital punishment in UK schools was outlawed. My point about the disruptive kid was that I was able to deal with him without even shouting, let alone violence

And yet he is still disruptive. Yes I know my history. My father got his knuckles twapped with a wooden ruler when he misbehaved in class. Not just him either but all of his brothers got the same treatment.

And it is called Corporal Punishment and not Capital Punishment. Capital Punishment Multiland is the Death penalty. :rolleyes:

Any more info about their denomination? Do they have a website to encourage new members? :)
they have one now, but it's all about the "church activities" and I don't remember the URL

basically they would meet up one night a week and do "church" and then one night a week to visit the community with info about the church. It's not hard for them to get visitors, you say "we have a new outlook on Christianity, we believe all the basic stuff, but we have new stuff and we serve cookies and punch"

No meat, no drinking?

Nah..

Sorry :(

Since I hold the view that spanking is a stupid and ignorant way to "train" a child, and since some people hold the opposite, and neither are likely to change (as some people won't even consider other views - I admit, I am one of those people where violence is concerned), the only point in continuing to debate about it would be to see how many pages we can create in this thread. So how about let's not? :)

Who needs spanking when there are cattle prods anyway?

Since I hold the view that spanking is a stupid and ignorant way to "train" a child, and since some people hold the opposite, and neither are likely to change (as some people won't even consider other views - I admit, I am one of those people where violence is concerned), the only point in continuing to debate about it would be to see how many pages we can create in this thread. So how about let's not? :)
Good call. Go create pages in the spanking thread! :)

multiland - are you going to ignore my on topic post? or did you miss it?

multiland - are you going to ignore my on topic post? or did you miss it?

may have missed it :)

may have missed it :)
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11412424&postcount=49