NationStates Jolt Archive


## Israeli Bunker Buster a Bust

OcceanDrive
21-07-2006, 02:12
Associated Press
Wed Jul 19, 7:06 PM ET

JERUSALEM - Israeli warplanes dropped bombs late Wednesday on a bunker in south Beirut where senior Hezbollah leaders were thought to be, the military said. The guerrilla group said none of its top officials were killed.
...
Hezbollah() denied that a leadership bunker was hit, saying the strike targeted a mosque that was under construction and no one was killed.

Hezbollah issued a statement saying "no Hezbollah leaders or elements were killed in the strike."

"The strike hit a building that was under construction for a mosque," said the statement, issued on the group's Al-Manar TV and faxed to The Associated Press.
Sources: Yahoo NEWS / The Associated Press
OcceanNEWS©2006

my2cents: Israel officials (speaking on condition of anonymity) are saying "we dropped big Bombs.. so maybe we did hit the Jackpot".

methinks: maybe not.
Super-power
21-07-2006, 02:13
Maybe Israel should have given Hezbollah a taste of its Rod from God? :D
(yes I realize nobody has this weapon, lol)
OcceanDrive
21-07-2006, 02:15
Maybe Israel should have given Hezbollah a taste of its Rod from God? :D
(I do not know if they actually possess this weapon, lol)LOL

quite a name indeed :D
The Atlantian islands
21-07-2006, 02:16
Maybe they did hit a target and Hezbollah hasnt released it in fear of weakening their party in this crucial time.

Anyway, I never listen to what the arabs give out to the media..I will wait for a real source.
Non Aligned States
21-07-2006, 02:25
Anyway, I never listen to what the arabs give out to the media..I will wait for a real source.

As opposed to Israeli army news?
OcceanDrive
21-07-2006, 02:25
Maybe they did hit a target and.....about that supposed "Bunker Strike"

Israel has never said "we killed (Hezbollah leader) Hassan Nasrallah".
Israel has never said "we killed number 2 or number 3".
Israel has never said "we have killed the Hezbollah delivery boy".

You know why?
because Isreal does not have a clue whether their "bunker-busters" have maneged to kill anyone inside a "Hezbollah Bunker".

all what you got is rumors being leaked to the media by Israel.
No Official statements whatsoever... Nothing.. Nada.. Zero.
The Atlantian islands
21-07-2006, 02:27
As opposed to Israeli army news?
What about it?
The Atlantian islands
21-07-2006, 02:28
about that supposed "Bunker Strike"

Israel has never said "we killed (Hezbollah leader) Hassan Nasrallah".
Israel has never said "we killed number 2 or number 3".
Israel has never said "we have killed the Hezbollah delivery boy".

You know why?
because Isreal does not have a clue whether their "bunker-busters" have maneged to kill anyone inside a "Hezbollah Bunker".

all what you got is rumors being leaked to the media by Israel.
No Official statements whatsoever... Nothing.. Nada.. Zero.
Which is why I am reserving judgement..but certainly not listening to what the arabs say.:)
Eutrusca
21-07-2006, 02:29
Associated Press
Wed Jul 19, 7:06 PM ET

JERUSALEM - Israeli warplanes dropped bombs late Wednesday on a bunker in south Beirut where senior Hezbollah leaders were thought to be, the military said. The guerrilla group said none of its top officials were killed.
...
Hezbollah later denied that a leadership bunker was hit, saying the strike targeted a mosque that was under construction and no one was killed.

Hezbollah issued a statement saying "no Hezbollah leaders or elements were killed in the strike."

"The strike hit a building that was under construction for a mosque," said the statement, issued on the group's Al-Manar TV and faxed to The Associated Press.
Sources: Yahoo NEWS / The Associated Press
OcceanNEWS©2006

my2cents: Israel officials (speaking on condition of anonymity) are saying "we dropped big Bombs.. so maybe we did hit the Jackpot".

methinks: maybe not.
Yep! Dem Hezbollah "leaders" sho iz ones ta be trussed, boss! Yessah, dey iz! :rolleyes:
Lunatic Goofballs
21-07-2006, 02:30
Israel doesn't seem to know much, do they? Considering the number of civilian deaths, I wonder if Isreal is just playing 'eenie meenie miney moe'.

I thought only terrorists indiscriminately launched random attacks. :p

On the other hand, maybe Comical Ali is workng for Hezbollah now. :D
The Atlantian islands
21-07-2006, 02:30
Yep! Dem Hezbollah "leaders" sho iz ones ta be trussed, boss! Yessah, dey iz! :rolleyes:
Exactamente.
OcceanDrive
21-07-2006, 02:31
Which is why I am reserving judgement..but certainly not listening to what the arabs say.:)of course you are free to ignore the Arabs.

My point is that at least the Arabs did issue an official statement.
and untill Israel issues their official statement.. The Arab statement is all there is on the table.
OcceanDrive
21-07-2006, 02:36
Exactamente.LOL..
I should have Copyrighted that expression (Exactamente).. ;)
Corneliu
21-07-2006, 02:38
Associated Press
Wed Jul 19, 7:06 PM ET

JERUSALEM - Israeli warplanes dropped bombs late Wednesday on a bunker in south Beirut where senior Hezbollah leaders were thought to be, the military said. The guerrilla group said none of its top officials were killed.
...
Hezbollah() denied that a leadership bunker was hit, saying the strike targeted a mosque that was under construction and no one was killed.

Hezbollah issued a statement saying "no Hezbollah leaders or elements were killed in the strike."

"The strike hit a building that was under construction for a mosque," said the statement, issued on the group's Al-Manar TV and faxed to The Associated Press.
Sources: Yahoo NEWS / The Associated Press
OcceanNEWS©2006

my2cents: Israel officials (speaking on condition of anonymity) are saying "we dropped big Bombs.. so maybe we did hit the Jackpot".

methinks: maybe not.

2 things. 1) we know that was no mosque and 2) Hezbollah's leader is still alive now that he came out and made a statement today.

Nice to see you believe everything Hezbollah says though. The only thing correct out of this post is the fact that Hezbollah's leader is still alive.
OcceanDrive
21-07-2006, 02:52
2 things.

1) we know that was no mosque.
2) Hezbollah's leader is still alive now that he came out and made a statement today.dont say we..

If I make a poll.. most will say "I dont know if that strike destroyed a Mosque".. I am certanly not ready to second your farfetched statement.

at most you could say "I (Corneliu) know that was no mosque."..

you would look like a fool.. but at least you would not be speaking in our(NS) names.
Corneliu
21-07-2006, 02:54
dont say we..

If you make a poll.. most will say "I dont know if that strike destroyed a Mosque".. I am certanly not ready to second your farfetched statement.

at most you could say "I (Corneliu) know that was no mosque."..

you would look like a fool.. but at least you would not be speaken in our(NS) names.

The only one claiming it was a mosque was Hezbollah. No one else has made that claim. Since no one else is making that claim, and since we all know Hezbollah is at war with Israel, I'll take what they say with a grain of salt.
NERVUN
21-07-2006, 02:58
The only one claiming it was a mosque was Hezbollah. No one else has made that claim. Since no one else is making that claim, and since we all know Hezbollah is at war with Israel, I'll take what they say with a grain of salt.
Make sure you take what Israel says with the same grain though.
OcceanDrive
21-07-2006, 03:01
The only one claiming it was a mosque was Hezbollah. No one else has made that claim. Since no one else is making that claim, and since we all know Hezbollah is at war with Israel, I'll take what they say with a grain of salt.fair enough (this post is so much better than the last one.. )
Corneliu
21-07-2006, 03:03
Make sure you take what Israel says with the same grain though.

As I said...hezbollah is the only one claiming it was a mosque. The Lebanonese government hasn't confirmed that. I listen to both sides of this conflict and frankly, both sides press disgusts me as does both leaders but I can understand Israel's point of view of this whole thing.
CanuckHeaven
21-07-2006, 03:17
On the other hand, maybe Comical Ali is workng for Hezbollah now. :D
No, he is a front man for the Red Wings and dabbling in standup on the side!! :D

http://hockeyarenas.com/stadien/neuefotosnhl/wingscomical.jpg
Corneliu
21-07-2006, 03:19
No, he is a front man for the Red Wings and dabbling in standup on the side!! :D

http://hockeyarenas.com/stadien/neuefotosnhl/wingscomical.jpg

Rock on! LOL :D
Lunatic Goofballs
21-07-2006, 03:20
No, he is a front man for the Red Wings and dabbling in standup on the side!! :D

http://hockeyarenas.com/stadien/neuefotosnhl/wingscomical.jpg

YAY! :D
Psychotic Mongooses
21-07-2006, 03:22
Maybe they did hit a target and Hezbollah hasnt released it in fear of weakening their party in this crucial time.

I mean, really? Do you believe what you even say anymore? :rolleyes:
CanuckHeaven
21-07-2006, 03:23
YAY! :D
I punched in Comical Ali on Google images :D

http://images.google.ca/images?q=comical+ali&hl=en&btnG=Search+Images

Good one LG!!
The Atlantian islands
21-07-2006, 03:24
I mean, really? Do you believe what you even say anymore? :rolleyes:
It depends on how reliable my sources are.:D
The Lone Alliance
21-07-2006, 03:53
Who the heck makes a mosque deep underground, unless it was their SUPER SECRET Hezbollah only Prayer Spot.
If so then Israel hit a good target.
Sal y Limon
21-07-2006, 05:57
Yep! Dem Hezbollah "leaders" sho iz ones ta be trussed, boss! Yessah, dey iz! :rolleyes:
:D
WE should all trust the Hezbollah leaders, they never lie. ;)
Wallonochia
21-07-2006, 06:03
*snip photo*

That pic is now my desktop background. And for the record the Ducks are a bunch of infidels. They're not as bad as the heathen Buckeyes, but who are?
Hamilay
21-07-2006, 06:04
Why is this a good thing? No Hezbollah personnel were killed, supposedly. I know you're vehemently against the actions of Israel, but you have to realise that Hezbollah is a terrorist organisation. I understand being upset at the deaths of Lebanese civilians, but we may as well get some Hezbollah terrorists whilst Israel is blowing stuff up.
DesignatedMarksman
21-07-2006, 06:05
Associated Press
Wed Jul 19, 7:06 PM ET

JERUSALEM - Israeli warplanes dropped bombs late Wednesday on a bunker in south Beirut where senior Hezbollah leaders were thought to be, the military said. The guerrilla group said none of its top officials were killed.
...
Hezbollah() denied that a leadership bunker was hit, saying the strike targeted a mosque that was under construction and no one was killed.

Hezbollah issued a statement saying "no Hezbollah leaders or elements were killed in the strike."

"The strike hit a building that was under construction for a mosque," said the statement, issued on the group's Al-Manar TV and faxed to The Associated Press.
Sources: Yahoo NEWS / The Associated Press
OcceanNEWS©2006

my2cents: Israel officials (speaking on condition of anonymity) are saying "we dropped big Bombs.. so maybe we did hit the Jackpot".

methinks: maybe not.

So you are celebrating the possibility that Israel might have missed hitting several Terrorist organization leaders?

WTF mate?

:confused:
Sal y Limon
21-07-2006, 06:14
So you are celebrating the possibility that Israel might have missed hitting several Terrorist organization leaders?

WTF mate?

:confused:
That's what he does. He roots for terrorists and tyrants.
Intrepid Redshift
21-07-2006, 06:25
Why is this a good thing? No Hezbollah personnel were killed, supposedly. I know you're vehemently against the actions of Israel, but you have to realise that Hezbollah is a terrorist organisation. I understand being upset at the deaths of Lebanese civilians, but we may as well get some Hezbollah terrorists whilst Israel is blowing stuff up.

But if they succeed then wont that just mean that in the future they will be able to blow up more civilians for the chance to hit more of the terrorists?

Classical conditioning. If they find it works they will continue to use it.
OcceanDrive
22-07-2006, 05:34
.. we may as well get some Hezbollah terrorists whilst Israel is blowing stuff up.1%..

you are killing 99 men,women and children.. for every hezbollah operative..

"may get some hezbollah..while killing lebanese families"

Yes indeed.. when you are killing that many people.. chances are you may as well get some Hezbollah
OcceanDrive
22-07-2006, 05:36
No, he is a front man for the Red Wings and dabbling in standup on the side!! :D

http://hockeyarenas.com/stadien/neuefotosnhl/wingscomical.jpgLOL.. funny shiite
Layarteb
22-07-2006, 05:45
That place was as much of a mosque as half of the Al Qaida/Talliban strongholds in Afghanistan were mosques.
OcceanDrive
22-07-2006, 15:12
That place was.. (NOT) a mosque...and you know that.. how?
Corneliu
22-07-2006, 15:14
and you know that.. how?

Considering only Hezbollah is claiming it was a mosque and no one else....
Laerod
22-07-2006, 15:16
1%..

you are killing 99 men,women and children.. for every hezbollah operative..

"may get some hezbollah..while killing lebanese families"

Yes indeed.. when you are killing that many people.. chances are you may as well get some HezbollahI find it highly unlikely that only about 3 Hezbullah operatives have been killed so far...
Laerod
22-07-2006, 15:16
and you know that.. how?Because Hezbullah later said that they hit the bunker but didn't kill any leaders.
Lunatic Goofballs
22-07-2006, 15:18
That place was as much of a mosque as half of the Al Qaida/Talliban strongholds in Afghanistan were mosques.

Mosques with gun ports. ;)
OcceanDrive
22-07-2006, 15:31
I find it highly unlikely that only about 3 Hezbullah operatives have been killed so far...what number would you consider?
10?
15?
150?
OcceanDrive
22-07-2006, 15:34
Because Hezbullah later said that they hit the bunker but didn't kill any leaders.You seem to say "Hezbollah is contradicting itself"..

If that is your point.. It should be easy for you to prove with links.

Prove it.
OcceanDrive
22-07-2006, 15:42
Mosques with gun ports. ;)figthers do hide in Churches.. schools and hospitals.. it happens in most Wars.. and I do not like it.

Just like I do not like soldiers distributing candy to lure children (in order to reduce the chances of an attack) If they really want to give them candy without risking the children lifes.. they would bring the beg candy Box to the schools (not giving small amounts while on patrol)
OcceanDrive
22-07-2006, 15:45
Considering only Hezbollah is claiming it was a mosque and no one else....like I said.. No one is officially contradicting Hezbollah.

all Israel has (Bunker-busted/leaders-killed/what-mosque? etc) is rumors and suppositions.
Sedation Ministry
22-07-2006, 15:56
Maybe they did hit a target and Hezbollah hasnt released it in fear of weakening their party in this crucial time.

Anyway, I never listen to what the arabs give out to the media..I will wait for a real source.

Neither do I.

Arabs tend to say that all their casualties are dead children, and all the targets hit are mosques, hospitals, and orphanages.
Corneliu
22-07-2006, 16:01
like I said.. No one is officially contradicting Hezbollah.

Just because they are not officially doing so, doesn't make what Hezbollah say true.

all Israel has (Bunker-busted/leaders-killed/what-mosque? etc) is rumors and suppositions.

And Hezbollah is a terror organization who lies to try to further their goals. Even Arab leaders aren't buying it for if they did, they would be the first to protest the attack on this supposed mosque and they have not.
OcceanDrive
22-07-2006, 16:21
..Arab (dictators) aren't buying it for if they did, they would be the first to protest the attack on this supposed mosque and they have not.#1: I have not seen them protest everytime a Mosque is attacked.. have you?

#2: Dictators have NO credibility anyways.
Corneliu
22-07-2006, 16:24
#1: I have not seen them protest everytime a Mosque is attacked.. have you?

You would think they would be outraged in this case but guess not.

#2: Dictators have NO credibility anyways.

Neither do terror organizations.
Gauthier
22-07-2006, 16:44
Yep! Dem Hezbollah "leaders" sho iz ones ta be trussed, boss! Yessah, dey iz! :rolleyes:

Real intelligent response Stephen Fetchit. Did you wear blackface while typing that one out?

:rolleyes:
OcceanDrive
22-07-2006, 18:18
Neither do terror organizations.just because Israel/UK/US Govs say you are a terrorist... it does not make you one.

Ahem, ahem (clic on the thumbnail):

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/1695/israelestsolowy0.th.jpg (http://img144.imageshack.us/my.php?image=israelestsolowy0.jpg)
Corneliu
22-07-2006, 21:18
just because Israel/UK/US Govs say you are a terrorist... it does not make you one.

And that got abit blasted by a few other posters as being inaccurate.

Are you saying that Hezbollah is not a terror organization?
DesignatedMarksman
22-07-2006, 21:27
just because Israel/UK/US Govs say you are a terrorist... it does not make you one.

Hezbollah couldn't be a terrorist organization, all they ever do is hand out candy to jewish kids and sing kumbayah and sing about how sweet we'd all be if we only gave peace a (345th) chance.

Find them, cut their nuts off, and bury them in pig fat.
DesignatedMarksman
22-07-2006, 21:35
Of the two, Hezbollah is 10000x more dangerous than Hamas. Hamas simply engages in suicide terrorism-Hezbollah has it's own companies, military courts, artillery battalions, etc. An islamo fascist army. Not to mention they launch rockets at israel, which means the rocketeers can live to rocket the Jews another day. Means they don't have as big a problem as Hamas when it come to recruitment.
OcceanDrive
23-07-2006, 01:32
Are you saying that Hezbollah is not a terror organization?that should not be up to me, you or BUSH..

That question should be up to the UN.

You and BUSH have been screaming Hezbollah is a "terror organiztion".. and I do not have to agree with you.. so I wont.
OcceanDrive
23-07-2006, 01:35
Are you saying that Hezbollah is not a terror organization?Your question allows me to guive two separate answers.

depends how do I define "Terror".. But any way I look at it..from all angles..

the CIA is a bigger terrorist that Hezbollah.. (in the angles it allows me to say hezbolla is terrorism)
Surf Shack
23-07-2006, 01:35
As opposed to Israeli army news?
Well, when the Israeli military says, "Maybe we got 'em," and the Hezbollah quickly blurt "Nuh uh, that wasn't even a bunker, and nobody died anyways, so nah!" I tend to find that slightly suspicious. Maybe sounds trustworthy. Definites are always BS, especially since the Israelis dropped 20 tons of explosives on that *mosque*.
Corneliu
23-07-2006, 01:36
that should not be up to me, you or BUSH..

That question should be up to the UN.

You and BUSH have been screaming Hezbollah is a "terror organiztion".. and I do not have to agree with you.. so I wont.

Nice complete dodge. FYI: Hezbollah has been a terror organization, long before President Bush. Now that we got that false anti-Bush comment out of the way....

Are you saying that Hezbollah is not a terror organization?
OcceanDrive
23-07-2006, 01:37
Nice complete dodge. whe i say "i wont" it means NO.

BTW i highlited it .. so you dont miss it.
Corneliu
23-07-2006, 01:38
Well, when the Israeli military says, "Maybe we got 'em," and the Hezbollah quickly blurt "Nuh uh, that wasn't even a bunker, and nobody died anyways, so nah!" I tend to find that slightly suspicious. Maybe sounds trustworthy. Definites are always BS, especially since the Israelis dropped 20 tons of explosives on that *mosque*.

23 Tons actually and their leader did survive. :mad:
Corneliu
23-07-2006, 01:41
Your question allows me to guive two separate answers.

Actually...no it only allows you to give one answer.

depends how do I define "Terror".. But any way I look at it..from all angles..

Just answer my question.

the CIA is a bigger terrorist that Hezbollah..

:rolleyes:

(in the angles it allows me to say hezbolla is terrorism)

Finally. An answer in all of your bullshit.
OcceanDrive
23-07-2006, 01:49
Just answer my question.I did.. twice..

and here is for the third time: NO.

You call them Terrorists... I dont.. I do NOT, niet, nein, etc.
Corneliu
23-07-2006, 01:53
I did.. twice..

and here is for the third time: NO.

You call them Terrorists. I dont. I D-o-- n-o-t. niet, nein, etc.

They are terrorists and to say that they are not is just plain rediculous and very very stupid.
Ultraextreme Sanity
23-07-2006, 01:55
hey the good news is the US is sending them the real deal !


Now they get to be entomed in their very own bunkers ! no meessy burial and gathering of strewn Hezbollah parts !


One stop shopping !
OcceanDrive
23-07-2006, 01:56
They are terrorists and to say that they are not is just plain rediculous and very very stupid.to say "they are just terrorists" is to blindly follow the US Gov and their so called "war on terror".

Who is ridicule and stupid? You or me.. wanna make a poll about that?
Surf Shack
23-07-2006, 01:57
hey the good news is the US is sending them the real deal !


Now they get to be entomed in their very own bunkers ! no meessy burial and gathering of strewn Hezbollah parts !


One stop shopping !
Yea, and Israel has some of the best pilots in the world. Our bombs are, of course, the best thing since stealth bombers, so this oughta get fun to watch. I'm an artilleryman myself, but ASMs can be fun to watch.
Surf Shack
23-07-2006, 01:58
to say they are terrorists is to blindly follow the US Gov and their so called "war on terror".

Who is ridicule and stupid? You or me.. wanna make a poll about that?
Umm, hasn't the UN already recognized Hezbollah as a terrorist organization, or at best an illegal militia? Since they are opposed to the government of their country?
Corneliu
23-07-2006, 01:58
to say they are terrorists is to blindly follow the US Gov and their so called "war on terror".

And now I know you are a stupid fool who knows nothing.
Gravlen
23-07-2006, 02:00
Yea, and Israel has some of the best pilots in the world. Our bombs are, of course, the best thing since stealth bombers, so this oughta get fun to watch. I'm an artilleryman myself, but ASMs can be fun to watch.
Ah, so it's just their targeting information that sucks...
Surf Shack
23-07-2006, 02:04
Ah, so it's just their targeting information that sucks...
Well, maybe they lied about what they were aiming for. They could be taking potshots at civilians for kicks and giggles you know.
OcceanDrive
23-07-2006, 02:06
Umm, hasn't the UN already recognized Hezbollah as a terrorist organization, or at best an illegal militia? Since they are opposed to the government of their country?Countries designating Hezbollah as terrorist
Israel/US/UK
+Canada
+Australia

Countries NOT designing Hezbollah as Terrorist:
(a picture = one thousand words)
Ahem, ahem (clic on the thumbnail):

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/1695/israelestsolowy0.th.jpg (http://img144.imageshack.us/my.php?image=israelestsolowy0.jpg)

BTW: The European Union does not list Hezbollah as a "terrorist organization", but does list Imad Mugniyah, Hezbollah's senior Intelligence officer, as a terrorist.
Ultraextreme Sanity
23-07-2006, 02:08
Ah, so it's just their targeting information that sucks...


Without a DOUBT...they blew up some dude in his bathroom while he was taking a dump..They are using droness and other recon..but they were suprised in finding below ground bunker complexes right accross the border..

I guess next on the list is side scan radar and that sonic crap we use to find bunkers in Iraq. some infared for the exaust / fresh air intake maybe ?

Some special forces FINDING an actual bunker and lighting it up with a laser designator would be the best way...leave the old dude on his potty be .
Corneliu
23-07-2006, 02:08
Countries NOT designing Hezbollah as Terrorist:
(a picture = one thousand words)

don't you just love it when people who do not know the facts use something that has already been debunked on more than one occassion?
OcceanDrive
23-07-2006, 02:10
don't you just love it when people who do not know the facts use something that has already been debunked on more than one occassion?
BTW#2
The European Union does not list Hezbollah as a "terrorist organization", but does list Imad Mugniyah, Hezbollah's senior Intelligence officer, as a terrorist.

* $5 dollars in my pocket says some neocon is going to whinne about EU/UN being "biased" or "anti-semite" *
;)
Ultraextreme Sanity
23-07-2006, 02:12
Countries designating Hezbollah as terrorist
Israel/US/UK
+Canada
+Australia

Countries NOT designing Hezbollah as Terrorist:
(a picture = one thousand words)


BTW: The European Union does not list Hezbollah as a "terrorist organization", but does list Imad Mugniyah, Hezbollah's senior Intelligence officer, as a terrorist.


hmmm you may have a point ...aside from the top of your head...no shit...

lookie..

The United States, Britain and Israel consider Hezbollah a terrorist organization but throughout most of the Arab and Muslim worlds, Hezbollah is highly regarded as a legitimate resistance movement. [10]. The Lebanese government confirmed it as a legitimate resistance against occupation.[11] [12]Even 74 percent of Lebanese Christians viewed Hezbollah as a resistance organization.[87]

European legislators branded the radical Lebanese Hizbollah group a terrorist organization and urged EU governments to place the group on their terrorist blacklists, as the bloc did with the Palestinian Hamas group in 2003.

“[EU] Parliament considers that clear evidence exists of terrorist activities by Hizbollah. The [EU] Council should take all necessary steps to curtail them," legislators said in a non-binding resolution adopted during a session in Strasburg, France



Dude you need to make nice with OD he was somewhat right all along .
Ultraextreme Sanity
23-07-2006, 02:15
Hmmm more from NPR...a decent look at things ...

Analysis
A Nuanced U.S. Position on Israel and Hezbollah
by Guy Raz


“Before the current conflict, the United States had used Lebanon as a shining example of its broad goal to spread democracy in the Middle East. Last year's 'Cedar Revolution' resulted in the ouster of Syrian troops from Lebanese soil and democratic elections.”

NPR.org, July 21, 2006 · Though Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice will attempt to broker an agreement to end the fighting between Israel and the Islamic militant group Hezbollah, the Bush administration has, so far, been reluctant to pressure Israel into halting its air campaign over Lebanon.

While many European countries have called for an immediate cease-fire, the United States, Britain and Germany have been less emphatic.

For the Bush administration, Israel's battle against Hezbollah is perceived as an extension of the war on terrorism. In 1997, the U.S. State Department designated Hezbollah a terrorist organization -- and in the past year, most European countries have followed suit.

The Bush administration and its European allies agree on these broad points:

1) Israel's sovereignty was violated when Hezbollah guerillas launched a deadly cross-border attack on July 12.

2) Israel has a right to defend itself from unprovoked aggression.

But that's where the agreement ends.

Most European states believe Israel's response to the July 12 Hezbollah attack has been excessive. Images of devastated Lebanese towns and cities and thousands of internally displaced people have underscored the impact this cross-border conflict has had on civilians.

Israel has argued that Iran may have a hidden hand in this conflict. The Bush administration agrees -- while also saying that Syria has played a role, as well. The majority of Hezbollah's funding and training comes from Iran and Syria. Many regional analysts view Hezbollah as an Iranian proxy militia in southern Lebanon.

The problem for the Bush administration now is how little clout it has with either Syria or Iran. The United States withdrew its ambassador to Syria months ago, in protest over Syria's alleged role in the assassination of a top-level Lebanese official. And since Iran's Islamic Revolution of 1979, the United States has not maintained a diplomatic presence in Tehran.

Two weeks before this crisis began, the international community was focused almost entirely on Iran's nuclear program. Now, the focus has moved elsewhere…to Iran's great advantage.

Secretary of State Rice says the administration has no intention of pushing for an immediate cease-fire unless certain conditions are met. "A cease-fire would be a false promise if it simply returns us to the status quo," she told reporters Friday.

But at the same time, there is anxiety inside the administration over the extent to which Israel's campaign may weaken Lebanon's nascent government.

Before the current conflict, the United States had used Lebanon as a shining example of its broad goal to spread democracy in the Middle East. Last year's "Cedar Revolution" resulted in the ouster of Syrian troops from Lebanese soil and democratic elections.

But those elections also brought Hezbollah into the government. Aside from its terror-related activity, Hezbollah is a political party and a social movement. Tens of thousands of Shiites in the country's south depend on Hezbollah-funded schools and hospitals.

Israel has justified its aggressive response by making arguments similar to those Washington made to justify its 2001 invasion of Afghanistan. In short, the reasoning is that countries that harbor a terrorist group will be held responsible for the group's actions.

In the past, U.S. administrations have generally intervened when flare-ups in the Middle East seemed to get out of hand. But this time, the Bush administration has largely stayed out. That's led critics to say that Washington has given Israel a green light to continue its military campaign.

White House officials strenuously deny the charge, saying there is no U.S.-Israeli collaboration -- but rather, they say, an understanding on Washington's part of the extent to which Israel feels threatened.

And while many contend Israel's military operations in Lebanon is disproportionate in response to the abduction of two of its soldiers, most Israelis don't see it in those terms.

Israel's withdrawal from Lebanon in 2000 was monitored by the United Nations. But Israeli soldiers still occupy about 400 acres of land known as the Shebaa Farms. And the occupation is what Hezbollah points to as a source of its grievance against the Jewish state.

But according to the United Nations, the Shebaa Farms actually lies inside of Syria, not Lebanon -- and Israel's withdrawal from the land must be negotiated between Jerusalem and Damascus.

Because Israel's withdrawal from Lebanon was U.N.-verified, many Israelis felt the Hezbollah raid was an unprovoked attack that required a harsh reply.

The question, of course, is how effective the Israeli response will be. In the end, it's possible that both Israel and the United States may emerge from the current episode more isolated than before.
Corneliu
23-07-2006, 02:17
European legislators branded the radical Lebanese Hizbollah group a terrorist organization

I love that one right there.
Ultraextreme Sanity
23-07-2006, 02:18
BTW#2
The European Union does not list Hezbollah as a "terrorist organization", but does list Imad Mugniyah, Hezbollah's senior Intelligence officer, as a terrorist.

* $5 dollars in my pocket says some neocon is going to whinne about EU/UN being "biased" or "anti-semite" *
;)


Actually the EU passed a non binding resolution saying and recognising Hezbollah as a terrorist org .

I dont think tthe UN recognises ANYONE as a terrorist group BTW.
OcceanDrive
23-07-2006, 02:19
hey the good news is the US is sending them the real deal !


Now they get to be entomed in their very own bunkers ! no meessy burial and gathering of strewn Hezbollah parts !


One stop shopping !one stop shopping indeed :D
OcceanDrive
23-07-2006, 02:21
Actually the EU ... .wikipedia is your friend.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah#The_European_Union

The European Union does not list Hezbollah as a "terrorist organization",[94] but does list Imad Mugniyah,[95] Hezbollah's senior Intelligence officer, as a terrorist.
OcceanDrive
23-07-2006, 02:23
European legislators branded the radical Lebanese Hizbollah group a terrorist organization

I love that one right there.Is not about the "one" you love.. Its about reading the whole thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah

see I did read the whole thing + the spanish and french versions.. and there is sweet spots for everyone..
Surf Shack
23-07-2006, 02:25
wikipedia is your friend.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah#The_European_Union

The European Union does not list Hezbollah as a "terrorist organization",[94] but does list Imad Mugniyah,[95] Hezbollah's senior Intelligence officer, as a terrorist.
They just showed you an article that is more recent than the Wikipedia entry. That would mean they are right, mate, the EU does have Hezbollah listed as a terrorist organization. So, now you think the whole world is in on the conspiracy I guess...


Well, you're right. We have infiltrated every level of your governments, and we will play our hand soon.......:upyours:
Corneliu
23-07-2006, 02:25
wikipedia is your friend.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah#The_European_Union

The European Union does not list Hezbollah as a "terrorist organization",[94] but does list Imad Mugniyah,[95] Hezbollah's senior Intelligence officer, as a terrorist.

Yes it is:

Muslim Terrorist Organizations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorist_Organizations#Muslim)
Surf Shack
23-07-2006, 02:25
Is not about the "one" you love.. Its about reading the whole thing.
Denial:eek:
Ultraextreme Sanity
23-07-2006, 02:25
Treasury Urges UN to Designate Terrorist Organizations Avoiding International Sanctions


Today, the United States and Saudi Arabian governments are asking the UN 1267 Sanctions Committee to list Vazir, a non-governmental organization located in Travnik, Bosnia, as an aka for Al Haramain-Bosnia. In addition, we are asking the Committee to add Safet Durguti, the representative of this organization, to their list of persons and entities tied to al-Qaida, subject to international sanctions under UNSCRs 1256, 1333, and 1390.



In addition, the United States is designating Hochburg AG as an aka for BA Taqwa. BA Taqwa was designated by the U.S. and added to the UN 1267 Sanctions Committee in 2002 because Youssef Nada, a Specially Designated Global Terrorist, had a controlling interest in BA Taqwa. Nada maintains an ongoing interest in the liquidation of Hochburg.



“These designations signal that we continue to track terrorist targets and designated persons who attempt to evade the international sanctions regime,” stated Deputy Assistant Secretary for Terrorist Financing Juan Zarate. “It further indicates that international cooperation on all fronts is a necessary and ongoing component of the long-term campaign against terrorist financing.”




Hmm......... I guess the UN does designate terrorist groups...but Hezbollah in Lebenon doesnt seem to be on it .


In fact I can see in CLEAR language in the many reolutions that they are a recognised resistance group and a militia ..and a defense force...no mention of terrorist by the UN.


OD gets that one right .
Corneliu
23-07-2006, 02:30
Is not about the "one" you love.. Its about reading the whole thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah

see I did read the whole thing + the spanish and french versions.. and there is sweet spots for everyone..

But the bottom line is .. Hezbollah is NOT on the EU's terrorist groups list.

EU lawmakers label Hizbollah 'terrorist’ group (http://www.isn.ethz.ch/news/sw/details.cfm?id=10923)

EU lawmakers label Hizbollah 'terrorist’ group, but still seem to court negotiations (http://jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/005325.php)

I call bullshit.
Surf Shack
23-07-2006, 02:31
Found out about the UN terror listings.

http://www.ajc.org/site/c.ijITI2PHKoG/b.1070361/k.9126/Terrorism_Lists.htm
As opposed to the lists maintained by the U.S. and the EU, the UN list is not a comprehensive list of terrorist organizations. It includes only individuals and entities linked to the Taliban, Bin Ladin, and Al-Qa'ida. Absent, therefore, from the UN list are Middle Eastern terrorist organizations such as Hamas, Hizballah, and Islamic Jihad.
OcceanDrive
23-07-2006, 02:33
Yes it is:

Muslim Terrorist Organizations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorist_Organizations#Muslim)that is not the EU list

and that Page is not even translated in any other mainstream Language. other than English.
nice try, try again.
CanuckHeaven
23-07-2006, 02:35
Yes it is:

Muslim Terrorist Organizations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorist_Organizations#Muslim)
Beside that entry, it states that a citation is required. Perhaps I should just edit it out of Wiki until someone can provide the citation?
Surf Shack
23-07-2006, 02:39
http://www.isn.ethz.ch/news/sw/details.cfm?id=10923

EU lawmakers label Hizbollah 'terrorist’ group

ISN SECURITY WATCH (11/03/05) - European legislators on Thursday branded the radical Lebanese Hizbollah group a “terrorist” organization and urged EU governments to place the group on their terrorist blacklists, as the bloc did with the Palestinian Hamas group in 2003.

“[EU] Parliament considers that clear evidence exists of terrorist activities by Hizbollah. The [EU] Council should take all necessary steps to curtail them," legislators said in a non-binding resolution adopted during a session in Strasburg, France on Thursday. EU lawmakers also called on Syria to withdraw its troops and intelligence services from Lebanon.

EU countries are under pressure from the US administration and Israel to add the Iranian-backed Hizbollah organization to its list of outlawed terrorist organizations, obliging member states to seize its assets and take action against its members.

So far, France, Spain, and Britain have been reluctant to include Hizbollah on the list, fearing that such a move would further damage the prospects for Middle East peace talks.

Hizbollah, a mainly Shi'ite Muslim radical movement, has broad popular support, notably in south Beirut and southern Lebanon. It has several elected members of the Lebanese parliament and maintains welfare services as well as an armed militia. It became the main resistance force against the Israeli occupation of Lebanon between 1982 and 2000, when the Jewish state withdrew unilaterally.

Hizbollah continues to launch occasional attacks on Israeli forces in a disputed area known as the Shebaa Farms, which Israel captured from Syria in the 1967 Middle East War but which Lebanon claims as part of its territory. The Israelis accuse the group of training and launching Palestinian suicide attackers in the West Bank and Gaza.

In related news, Washington has refuted a story in the New York Times earlier this week, according to which the US was softening its stance towards Hizbollah and might be ready to recognize it as a legitimate political party in Lebanon. US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said on Thursday that the US stance towards Hizbollah had not changed and that the administration of US President George Bush would accept a political role for Hizbollah only if it disarmed. Rice said that did not reflect a shift in Washington’s stance, but it did reflect recognition of the political clout of the militant Shi’ite Muslim organization in Lebanon.

In remarks to reporters, Rice carefully avoided the stock US phrase that Hizbollah is a terrorist organization. Her statements come two days after Hizbollah showed its political power by drawing hundreds of thousands of people to central Beirut for a pro-Syrian rally to counter the effect of two weeks of anti-Syrian rallies following the 14 February assassination of former Lebanese prime minister Rafik al-Hariri.

Rice said US policy was focused on getting Syria to withdraw its estimated 14’000-16’000 troops and its intelligence personnel from Lebanon so the country could hold parliamentary elections in May without outside interference.

Two days ago, UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan urged the international community to understand that Hizbollah was a force to be reckoned with in implementing the UN Security Council resolution calling for the withdrawal of Syrian forces from Lebanon and the disarming of all militia groups. “[W]e need to recognize that they are a force in society that one will have to factor in as we implement the resolution,” Annan said.

(By Ekrem Krasniqi in Brussels)
OcceanDrive
23-07-2006, 04:38
Wikipedia says Hezbollah is not on the list.
and that Wikipedia statement is still standing..
Surf Shack
23-07-2006, 04:49
Wikipedia says Hezbollah is not on the list.
and that Wikipedia statement is still standing..
Yes, we are all aware the UN doesn't classify it as a terrorist group, and I posted earlier (like 2 posts up) one reason why. However, the EU does have it down as one.
OcceanDrive
23-07-2006, 04:57
...EU does have it down as one.Unless you can provide a link to the official EU List.

the Wikipedia statement is still standing.
Kecibukia
23-07-2006, 05:16
Unless you can provide a link to the official EU List.

the Wikipedia statement is still standing.

Here it is:

http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/lex/LexUriServ/site/en/oj/2005/l_340/l_34020051223en00800084.pdf

http://www.statewatch.org/terrorlists/terrorlists.html

http://www.statewatch.org/terrorlists/docs/EUterrorlist-May-06.pdf
OcceanDrive
23-07-2006, 05:24
Here it is:
http://www.statewatch.org/terrorlists/terrorlists.html
these look like the official List to you?


http://www.statewatch.org/terrorlists/docs/EUterrorlist-May-06.pdfsame..

http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/lex/LexUriServ/site/en/oj/2005/l_340/l_34020051223en00800084.pdfand this one 100% proves my point (wikipedia point).
Surf Shack
23-07-2006, 05:29
Unless you can provide a link to the official EU List.

the Wikipedia statement is still standing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah#The_European_Union
European legislators branded the radical Lebanese Hezbollah group a terrorist organization and urged EU governments to place the group on their terrorist blacklists, as the bloc did with the Palestinian Hamas group in 2003.

“[EU] Parliament considers that clear evidence exists of terrorist activities by Hezbollah. The [EU] Council should take all necessary steps to curtail them," legislators said in a non-binding resolution adopted during a session in Strasburg, France.[14]

Goddamit! *I already posted this once, and ITS FROM WIKIPEDIA! They just said it was a terrorist organization! WTF! Why do you refuse to read that every time we've shown it to you?
Kecibukia
23-07-2006, 05:31
these look like the official List to you?
same..
and this one proves Wikipedia is rigth.

Being that they reprinted the EU journal, yes, it is the official list. Are you denying that is clearly says Hizbol Mujahideen? Are you trying to play semantic spelling games when both are accepted spellings from an Arabic translation when numerous news reports have stated it as well?
OcceanDrive
23-07-2006, 05:32
Goddamit! *I already posted this once, and ITS FROM WIKIPEDIA! They just said it was a terrorist organization! WTF! Why do you refuse to read that every time we've shown it to you?Is not enough to post it.. You have to read it too.. ALL of it.
Kecibukia
23-07-2006, 05:33
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah#The_European_Union


Goddamit! *I already posted this once, and ITS FROM WIKIPEDIA! They just said it was a terrorist organization! WTF! Why do you refuse to read that every time we've shown it to you?

OD's even refusing to recognize a direct reprint of the EU journal.
Surf Shack
23-07-2006, 05:34
OD's even refusing to recognize a direct reprint of the EU journal.
He's been in denial over this for 3 or 4 pages. I even posted the original article that Wikipedia used as a source. Nothing is good enough, but OD will use Wiki even when its disagreeing with him. Dumbass.
OcceanDrive
23-07-2006, 05:47
Being that they reprinted the EU journal, yes, it is the official list. Are you denying that is clearly says Hizbol Mujahideen? Are you trying to play semantic spelling games when both are accepted spellings from an Arabic translation when numerous news reports have stated it as well?I am going to give you some general advise..

whenever you ever try to prove me wrong.. be ready to use a maximum of your debate'n'research skill.. otherwise you will probably look like a total idiot.

..and sometimes.. you will bite the dust even if you try your best.

life is a beach. ;)
OcceanDrive
23-07-2006, 05:49
He's been in denial over this for 3 or 4 pages. I even posted the original article that Wikipedia used as a source. Nothing is good enough, but OD will use Wiki even when its disagreeing with him. Dumbass.If you want to find out who the real dumbass is.. maybe you need to look at the mirror.. Right after you look at the official PDF List provided by the other Dumbass. :D :D ;) :D
Surf Shack
23-07-2006, 05:56
If you want to find out who the real dumbass is.. maybe you need to look at the mirror.. Right after you look at the official PDF List provided by the other Dumbass. :D :D ;) :D
Right..., the outdated PDF. That you already claimed wasn't legitimate, right? Mate, we aren't arguing with you anymore, and its simply because you have been repeatadly shown to be wrong, and you just refuse to acknowledge it. So, not really a point in having a discussion.
OcceanDrive
23-07-2006, 06:03
Right..., the outdated PDF. oooh..

so now that it proves my point..
now that it makes you look like a fool..

now you are calling (PDF list) it outdated?? :rolleyes:

...so lame.
Corneliu
23-07-2006, 15:41
Wikipedia says Hezbollah is not on the list.
and that Wikipedia statement is still standing..

Well....wikipedia is wrong.
Corneliu
23-07-2006, 15:43
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah#The_European_Union


Goddamit! *I already posted this once, and ITS FROM WIKIPEDIA! They just said it was a terrorist organization! WTF! Why do you refuse to read that every time we've shown it to you?

Not to mention I posted 2 links that shows they have it down as a terror organization. I noticed he completely ignored it.
OcceanDrive
23-07-2006, 16:04
Good morning Corneliu, what a lovely sunday.

I see you have come to have you daily Glass of "OcceanD"..
I am here for 20 more minutes.. I shall be back tonite to kick-ass some more.

and dont forget to take you vitamines.. :D :D ;) :D

BTW do you have the official Terror list yet?
I dont think so.
Corneliu
23-07-2006, 16:08
OD,

You have been shown link after link after link that utterly destroys your post about Hezbollah not being recognized as a terror organization.

Links have been posted here that totally debunks that for the European Union does recognize Hezbollah as a terror organization.

Your failure to recognize this does not go well for you for you fail to recognize what the truth is because you want to believe wikipedia. Guess what? Wikipedia is wrong. You have been shown this and yet you refuse to acknowledge when you are wrong.

I'll echo what Surf Shack said. I'm done arguing you on this point for you hvae been proven wrong.
OcceanDrive
23-07-2006, 16:17
OD,

You have been shown link after link after link that utterly destroys your post about Hezbollah not being recognized as a terror organization.

Links have been posted here that totally debunks that for the European Union does recognize Hezbollah as a terror organization.

Your failure to recognize this does not go well for you for you fail to recognize what the truth is because you want to believe wikipedia. Guess what? Wikipedia is wrong. You have been shown this and yet you refuse to acknowledge when you are wrong.

I'll echo what Surf Shack said. I'm done arguing you on this point for you hvae been proven wrong.one glass not enough for you?

EU official terrorists List
#1 Wikipedia is rigth.
#2 You are wrong.
#3 dumbass no.2 is wrong.
#4 dumbass no.3 is wrong.

follow-up news at 19h00 :D
Corneliu
23-07-2006, 16:19
one glass not enough for you?

EU official terrorists List
#1 Wikipedia is rigth.
#2 You are wrong.
#3 .... Ill tell you about this one tonite. ;)
#4 see #3
loop.

Oh brother. Just keep believing your delusions for you have been bombed, hammered, and destroyed in this debate.
Cluichstan
23-07-2006, 16:53
Oh brother. Just keep believing your delusions for you have been bombed, hammered, and destroyed in this debate.

Ouch. I just read through this whole thread, and DAMN. OD is practically fused glass at this point.
Corneliu
23-07-2006, 16:55
Ouch. I just read through this whole thread, and DAMN. OD is practically fused glass at this point.

Yes he is but he still refuses to acknowledge that he has lost.
Cluichstan
23-07-2006, 16:57
Yes he is but he still refuses to acknowledge that he has lost.

Of course, what else do you expect from someone who starts a few anti-US/Israel threads just to troll and Internet forum?
Corneliu
23-07-2006, 16:58
Of course, what else do you expect from someone who starts a few anti-US/Israel threads just to troll and Internet forum?

An excellent point and yet he claims that he isn't anti-Israel. Just one more lie :D
Cluichstan
23-07-2006, 17:00
An excellent point and yet he claims that he isn't anti-Israel. Just one more lie :D

The :D smiley he attached to the thread is rather telling, don'tcha think?
Corneliu
23-07-2006, 17:01
The :D smiley he attached to the thread is rather telling, don'tcha think?

Yep. It is. Not to mention he told me he had 20 minutes left online and was still posting 40 minutes later.
Cluichstan
23-07-2006, 17:09
LOL..

Now I am late.. and that is all your fault.. Damn you Corneliu :D

later kids.. and dont forget to eat the Broccoli. ;)

"Kids" indeed... *snicker*
OcceanDrive
10-08-2006, 04:52
OD,

You have been shown link after link after link that utterly destroys your post about Hezbollah not being recognized (by the EU) as a terror organization.

Links have been posted here that totally debunks that for the European Union does recognize Hezbollah as a terror organization.

Your failure to recognize this does not go well for you for you fail to recognize what the truth is because you want to believe wikipedia. Guess what? Wikipedia is wrong. You have been shown this and yet you refuse to acknowledge when you are wrong.you guys speak with such an Athority.. almost makes me feel you must know what you are talking about...

...almost. ;)
OcceanDrive
22-08-2006, 05:20
Yes he is but he still refuses to acknowledge that he has lost.My statement is still standing.
Andaluciae
22-08-2006, 05:22
And how is the word of Hiz'bo'allah worthy of more accuracy than the word of the IDF?
Corneliu
22-08-2006, 05:26
And how is the word of Hiz'bo'allah worthy of more accuracy than the word of the IDF?

Because Hezbollah never tells a lie and they are not jewish. OceanDrive has no idea what the hell he is talking about most of the time. You will get used to it.
OcceanDrive
22-08-2006, 05:49
OD,

You have been shown link after link after link that utterly destroys your post about Hezbollah not being recognized as a terror organization (by the EU).

Links have been posted here that totally debunks that for the European Union does recognize Hezbollah as a terror organization.

Your failure to recognize this does not go well for you for you fail to recognize what the truth is because you want to believe wikipedia. Guess what? Wikipedia is wrong. You have been shown this and yet you refuse to acknowledge when you are wrong.
"link after link after link that utterly destroys your post".. classic Corneliu. :D
Captain pooby
22-08-2006, 05:55
"link after link after link that utterly destroys your post".. classic Corneliu. :D


So you're saying Hezzbollah is an organization that hands out candy to jewish kids, helps people re-fi their house, looks out for their neighbors?

No, they're wicked evil people. All of hezzbollah.
CanuckHeaven
22-08-2006, 06:20
Being that they reprinted the EU journal, yes, it is the official list. Are you denying that is clearly says Hizbol Mujahideen? Are you trying to play semantic spelling games when both are accepted spellings from an Arabic translation when numerous news reports have stated it as well?
Hizbul Mujahideen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hizbul_Mujahideen)is NOT Hezbollah.
CanuckHeaven
22-08-2006, 06:21
Some serious ownage by Ocean Drive here:

http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/050311/2005031123.html

European parliament calls for putting an end to Hizbullah terrorist acts
Lebanon-European Union, Politics, 3/11/2005

The European Parliament on Thursday announced support for taking measures aiming at "putting an end to terrorist activities" by the Hizbullah party and called on Syria not to be tolerant towards "any form of terrorism," including the activity of this party, stressing the need of the withdrawal of the Syrian forces and intelligence from Lebanon and the importance of organizing legislative elections "free, democratic and transparent."

In a consultancy decision only, and of a majority of 473, objection of 8 and three abstainers, the European parliamentarians said that "there are proved evidences on the terrorist moves of Hizbullah."

The decision added that the "European parliament should take all needed measures to put an end to the terrorist activities of this group," but it did not tackle the issue of listing Hizbullah as one of the European list for terrorist organizations.

BTW Kecibukia, those 3 lists you posted did not list Hezbollah as a terrorist organization.

Looks like 3 or 4 down for the count on this one.

*wonders when the apologies will commence?
CanuckHeaven
22-08-2006, 06:28
Because Hezbollah never tells a lie and they are not jewish. OceanDrive has no idea what the hell he is talking about most of the time. You will get used to it.
It would appear that he knows what he is talking about in regards to the EU and Hezbollah though. Oops.
CanuckHeaven
22-08-2006, 06:36
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah#The_European_Union


Goddamit! *I already posted this once, and ITS FROM WIKIPEDIA! They just said it was a terrorist organization! WTF! Why do you refuse to read that every time we've shown it to you?
You must have a different Wiki?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah#Position_of_the_UN

The EU does not consider Hezbollah, or any group within it, a terrorist organization. The EU Parliament passed a resolution recognizing "clear evidence" of "terrorist activities by Hezbollah".[177] The EU Council designates Imad Mugniyah as a terrorist, claiming he is Hezbollah's "Senior Intelligence Officer"
CanuckHeaven
22-08-2006, 07:10
Yes it is:

Muslim Terrorist Organizations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorist_Organizations#Muslim)
BEN
These are not the droids you're
looking for.

TROOPER
These are not the droids we're
looking for.

BEN
He can go about his business.

TROOPER
You can go about your business.

BEN
(to Luke)
Move along.

TROOPER
Move along. Move along.

Yup, move along. :p
CanuckHeaven
22-08-2006, 07:23
EU lawmakers label Hizbollah 'terrorist’ group (http://www.isn.ethz.ch/news/sw/details.cfm?id=10923)

EU lawmakers label Hizbollah 'terrorist’ group, but still seem to court negotiations (http://jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/005325.php)

I call bullshit.
Tsk, tsk. Almost 22,000 posts and you call "bullshit". Did you actually read the article that you linked to?

European legislators on Thursday branded the radical Lebanese Hizbollah group a “terrorist” organization and urged EU governments to place the group on their terrorist blacklists, as the bloc did with the Palestinian Hamas group in 2003.

“[EU] Parliament considers that clear evidence exists of terrorist activities by Hizbollah. The [EU] Council should take all necessary steps to curtail them," legislators said in a non-binding resolution adopted during a session in Strasburg, France on Thursday. EU lawmakers also called on Syria to withdraw its troops and intelligence services from Lebanon.
OcceanDrive
22-08-2006, 08:24
*wonders when the apologies will commence?at one point they will wake up..

or maybe they will choose to go into hibernation like Corneliu did after his embarrasing posting..

maybe they could restart forum-life under a new Nation... Allleghmy or something like that.. ;)
CanuckHeaven
22-08-2006, 14:23
at one point they will wake up..

or maybe they will choose to go into hibernation like Corneliu did after his embarrasing posting..

maybe they could restart forum-life under a new Nation... Allleghmy or something like that.. ;)
It does seem that they suddenly just wandered away, and yeah, puppets are interesting. :D
Deep Kimchi
22-08-2006, 14:29
It does seem that they suddenly just wandered away, and yeah, puppets are interesting. :D
Looks like Canada thinks Hezbollah are terrorists:

http://www.psepc.gc.ca/prg/ns/le/cle-en.asp

That's a government site. They apparently decided this back in 2002.
Andaluciae
22-08-2006, 14:50
The UN’s Deputy Secretary-General, Mark Malloch Brown, contests characterisations of the Lebanese militia as a terrorist organisation in the mould of al-Qaeda.[132] While acknowledging that “Hezbollah employs terrorist tactics,”[133] he says that it is unhelpful to call it a terrorist organization; the United States and the international community, in his view, would do well to respect it as a legitimate political party. Brown also criticized Hizbullah, "It is making no effort to hit military targets; it's just a broadside against civilian targets,".

While Hiz'bo'allah is certainly not the same type of group as Al Qaeda, I feel that it's actions warrant it's recognition as a terrorist organization, on the basis that they make use of terror tactics, which Mr. Brown. It bears many similar characteristics to the IRA of the past, which was clearly a terrorist organization. I will continue to classify Hiz'bo'allah as a terrorist organization until it ceases to use terrorist tactics, and reverts to making use of the normal political channels that clearly exist within Lebanon. I would call on Hiz'bo'allah to disarm, and cease attacks upon civilians.
OcceanDrive
22-08-2006, 15:16
I will continue to classify Hiz'bo'allah as a terrorist organization until it ceases to use terrorist tactics, and reverts to making use of the normal political channels that clearly exist within Lebanon. I would call on Hiz'bo'allah to disarm, and cease attacks upon civilians.would you call on Israel to cease attack upon civileans.
Would you call on Israel to stop kiddnapping elected officials.

Would you classify Israel as a terrorist organization.. if they do not stop using Terror.
Drunk commies deleted
22-08-2006, 15:21
Anyone who thinks hezbollah isn't a terrorist organization is either extremely ignorant of what Hezbollah has done or just plain doesn't believe that Jewish people's lives matter. Hezbollah was behind the bombing of a Jewish community center in Buenos Aires Argentina. WTF was Hezbollah doing attacking Jews in Argentina? They can't legitimately claim to be attacking Israel. They're just engaging in international terrorism based on race and religion. If you don't support the KKK you have no business supporting Hezbollah.
Drunk commies deleted
22-08-2006, 15:24
would you call on Israel to cease attack upon civileans.
Would you call on Israel to stop kiddnapping elected officials.

Would you classify Israel as a terrorist organization.. if they do not stop using Terror.
Israel doesn't attack civilians. I've seen some nice eye opening evidence of many instances of Palestinian and Hezbollah people staging fake scenes of attrocities. They fake body counts. They basically lie so much nothing they say can be taken as fact. Even mainstream journalists are fooled by them because incidents are carefully staged and filmed for the journalists by Palestinian and Hezbollah people.
Corneliu
22-08-2006, 15:37
would you call on Israel to cease attack upon civileans.

Dummy...if Israel is getting attacked from civilian structures then bomb the shit out of said structure. Under International Law, that is legal. I doubt you even know that.

Would you call on Israel to stop kiddnapping elected officials.

Depends on why they were "kidnapped".

Would you classify Israel as a terrorist organization.. if they do not stop using Terror.

Terror according to whom? Hezbollah are most definitely terrorists, Israel just responds to terrorism.
Cluichstan
22-08-2006, 15:40
A state is not a terrorist organisation.

EDIT: And now we'll get the "George Bush is teh biggest terrorist" posts. :rolleyes:
CanuckHeaven
22-08-2006, 18:57
Dummy...if Israel is getting attacked from civilian structures then bomb the shit out of said structure. Under International Law, that is legal. I doubt you even know that.
After reading many of your posts on this thread, I think you should rethink using the word dummy?

Can you prove that Israeli attacks against all civilian structures were justified? Didn't think so.
Corneliu
22-08-2006, 19:01
After reading many of your posts on this thread, I think you should rethink using the word dummy?

Can you prove that Israeli attacks against all civilian structures were justified? Didn't think so.

Oh grow up CanuckHeaven. OcceanDrive has a more idiotic history than I do. At least I admit when I am wrong some of the time. This loser here has rarely done so.
OcceanDrive
22-08-2006, 19:02
Terror according to whom? Hezbollah are most definitely terrorists, Israel just responds to terrorism."most definitely" according to whom?
OcceanDrive
22-08-2006, 19:03
A state (cannnot be) a terrorist organisation.Why?
Drunk commies deleted
22-08-2006, 19:16
"most definitely" according to whom?
So you think they were justified in killing a bunch of Jews in Buenos Aires? Or are you ignoring an inconvenient fact? Or maybe killing Jews is ok in your book.
Deep Kimchi
22-08-2006, 19:16
So you think they were justified in killing a bunch of Jews in Buenos Aires? Or are you ignoring an inconvenient fact? Or maybe killing Jews is ok in your book.
OceanDrive loves it when Jews are killed.
Utracia
22-08-2006, 19:17
After reading many of your posts on this thread, I think you should rethink using the word dummy?

Can you prove that Israeli attacks against all civilian structures were justified? Didn't think so.

What? Are you saying accidents don't happen? Or maybe that Israel hit civilian targets indiscriminately without checking if Hezbollah was inside? This is war you know. There is going to be damage done to civilian structures. Unless you can prove that Israel didn't care what it struck maybe you should be quiet. Unless you are saying that wars can only be fought when no collateral damage will happen? That is quite impossible.
CanuckHeaven
22-08-2006, 19:22
Oh grow up CanuckHeaven. OcceanDrive has a more idiotic history than I do. At least I admit when I am wrong some of the time. This loser here has rarely done so.
Grow up? That would be akin to my son who is the same age as you telling me to grow up. You called someone a dummy, and I challenged you with a question. Instead of answering the question, which you cannot do without making your earlier comment appear ridiculous, you decided to attack me.

Now, can you prove that all Israeli attacks against civilians was justified?
Deep Kimchi
22-08-2006, 19:23
Grow up? That would be akin to my son who is the same age as you telling me to grow up. You called someone a dummy, and I challenged you with a question. Instead of answering the question, which you cannot do without making your earlier comment appear ridiculous, you decided to attack me.

Now, can you prove that all Israeli attacks against civilians was justified?
Can you prove they weren't?
Drunk commies deleted
22-08-2006, 19:24
Grow up? That would be akin to my son who is the same age as you telling me to grow up. You called someone a dummy, and I challenged you with a question. Instead of answering the question, which you cannot do without making your earlier comment appear ridiculous, you decided to attack me.

Now, can you prove that all Israeli attacks against civilians was justified?
You're demanding the impossible. Nobody can prove that every attack by any nation was justified. There is always controversy over civilian casualties. Fuck, Look at Fallujah, where the residents were warned and allowed to flee before the Marines rolled in, there are still people saying it was a war crime.
Nodinia
22-08-2006, 19:25
Oh grow up CanuckHeaven. OcceanDrive has a more idiotic history than I do. .

Not possible. You've had the blonde wig of "communal property" glued on fer life......
Arthais101
22-08-2006, 19:28
Israel doesn't seem to know much, do they? Considering the number of civilian deaths

Hezbollah is not the Lebanese Army.

Therefore Hezbollah is made entirely of civilians. Saying "Israel has killed a lot of civilians" is meaningless, they're TRYING to kill civilians. Hezbollah are civilians.

A news report that states "Israel killed 100 civilians" doesn't state whether or not they were Hezbollah, they may well have been. The amount of civilian deaths is meaningless.

What matters in judging efficiency is how many INNOCENT civilians are killed, and that is not something anyone here can judge.
OcceanDrive
22-08-2006, 19:29
What? Are you saying accidents don't happen? Or maybe (you are saying) that Israel hit civilian targets indiscriminately without checking if Hezbollah was inside? just how on earth does Israel checks if there is civileans inside the buildings ???
CanuckHeaven
22-08-2006, 19:31
What? Are you saying accidents don't happen? Or maybe that Israel hit civilian targets indiscriminately without checking if Hezbollah was inside? This is war you know. There is going to be damage done to civilian structures. Unless you can prove that Israel didn't care what it struck maybe you should be quiet. Unless you are saying that wars can only be fought when no collateral damage will happen? That is quite impossible.
I do believe that the point I was raising with Corny has sailed over your head?

The use of the word "collateral damage" has become far too prevalent, as has the number of civilian casualties. Suggesting that I should be "quiet" on this issue is to suggest that critical thinking should be abandoned. I do believe in freedom of speech, and freedom of thought. I don't believe that your advice will dissuade me from speaking my mind on this topic.
Arthais101
22-08-2006, 19:32
would you call on Israel to cease attack upon civileans.


Absolutly not, Hezbollah are civilians.

I don't want Israel to kill innocent civilians without necessity, but that is not what you're asking.
Utracia
22-08-2006, 19:39
I do believe that the point I was raising with Corny has sailed over your head?

The use of the word "collateral damage" has become far too prevalent, as has the number of civilian casualties. Suggesting that I should be "quiet" on this issue is to suggest that critical thinking should be abandoned. I do believe in freedom of speech, and freedom of thought. I don't believe that your advice will dissuade me from speaking my mind on this topic.

Did I miss some other point? Possible... but moving on.

I didn't mean to suggest that we should ignore excessive collateral damage but it does happen in conflicts. As for the rest you don't need to get hysterical about your rights being attacked. I don't like hearing that people can't defend their nations against legitimate threats because of the fear that some unattended destruction or death may occur. It sucks but there you have it.
Deep Kimchi
22-08-2006, 19:55
I am asking you to treat both sides equaly..
If you ask hezbollah to cease their attacks..
ask the same to Israel.
If you ask Hezbollah to stop arm shipments.
ask the same to Israel.
If you ask Hezbollah to stop killing Civileans.
ask the same to Israel.

etc etc

That's not what you asked this morning. You asked for Shebaa Farms.
OcceanDrive
22-08-2006, 19:55
Absolutly not, Hezbollah are civilians.

I don't want Israel to kill innocent civilians without necessity, but that is not what you're asking.I am asking you to treat both sides equaly..

If you ask hezbollah to cease their attacks..
ask the same to Israel.
If you ask Hezbollah to stop arm shipments.
ask the same to Israel.
If you ask Hezbollah to stop killing Civileans.
ask the same to Israel.
If you ask Hezbollah to stop the terror.
ask the same to Israel.

etc etc
OcceanDrive
22-08-2006, 19:59
That's not what you asked this morning. You asked for Shebaa Farms.thats is not all I asked..
*hint* POWs
Arthais101
22-08-2006, 21:10
I am asking you to treat both sides equaly..

If you ask hezbollah to cease their attacks..
ask the same to Israel.
If you ask Hezbollah to stop arm shipments.
ask the same to Israel.
If you ask Hezbollah to stop killing Civileans.
ask the same to Israel.
If you ask Hezbollah to stop the terror.
ask the same to Israel.

etc etc

I expect that BOTH SIDES shall adhere to the terms of the cease fire, until such time as one side violates it.

It seems pretty clear that Hezbollah violated the terms, thus the agreement is null and void.

Should a time come when a new agreement is forged, or the old agreement is put back into effect, I will once again expect that both sides adhere to its terms, until such time as one side violates it.

Israeli actions did not void the ceasefire, Hezbollah's did.
Corneliu
22-08-2006, 21:17
So you think they were justified in killing a bunch of Jews in Buenos Aires? Or are you ignoring an inconvenient fact? Or maybe killing Jews is ok in your book.

Its OD! Its normal for him to ignore facts.
Corneliu
22-08-2006, 21:19
Now, can you prove that all Israeli attacks against civilians was justified?

If someone is shooting at me from a civilian structure, I'd call in an airstrike to destroy the building. There's a proof for you. If Hezbollah is launching rockets from a civilian building, under International Law attacking it would be justified. :p

Because of that, any civilian deaths that occur is the fault of Hezbollah and not Israel in accordance with the IV Geneva Convention.
Corneliu
22-08-2006, 21:21
just how on earth does Israel checks if there is civileans inside the buildings ???

They can't but a rocket being launched from a building, makes it clear that there is hezbollah in there and so...

BOOM!!!!

No more building for Hezbollah rocketfiring.
Corneliu
22-08-2006, 21:22
That's not what you asked this morning. You asked for Shebaa Farms.

Which Lebanon is not entitled too.
Ultraextreme Sanity
22-08-2006, 21:28
on one hand you get


OMG !!!! Israel is destroying Lebanon !!!!!! They are using tooo much force all out of proportion !!!!!!! OMG !!!!! We gotta stop the Jews !!!! They are Killing everyone !!!!!!!!



on the other hand you get


Bwaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahaaha the Jews got beat because they were too soft we had God on our side we won the Jews suck we beat them they are not invincible see we told you so nananananana


All by the same people....

so what is it ?
CanuckHeaven
23-08-2006, 00:06
If someone is shooting at me from a civilian structure, I'd call in an airstrike to destroy the building. There's a proof for you. If Hezbollah is launching rockets from a civilian building, under International Law attacking it would be justified. :p

Because of that, any civilian deaths that occur is the fault of Hezbollah and not Israel in accordance with the IV Geneva Convention.
You have proven exactly nothing with your hypothetical post. You called someone a dummy because they mentioned the deaths of innocent civilians and you know have the unenviable task of proving that all the deaths were unavoidable. If you can't provide that proof, then who looks like a dummy? Good luck on your assignment.
Yesmusic
23-08-2006, 00:11
If someone is shooting at me from a civilian structure, I'd call in an airstrike to destroy the building. There's a proof for you. If Hezbollah is launching rockets from a civilian building, under International Law attacking it would be justified. :p

Because of that, any civilian deaths that occur is the fault of Hezbollah and not Israel in accordance with the IV Geneva Convention.

lol dead civilians :) :p :D
Slaughterhouse five
23-08-2006, 01:41
doesnt it seem that these are the same people reporting that everyone person (including the ones with guns in their hands and bombs wrapped around their chest) are innocent civilians. and just about every building that gets bombed is either a civilians house or mosque.
Corneliu
23-08-2006, 02:15
You have proven exactly nothing with your hypothetical post. You called someone a dummy because they mentioned the deaths of innocent civilians and you know have the unenviable task of proving that all the deaths were unavoidable. If you can't provide that proof, then who looks like a dummy? Good luck on your assignment.

I never said all deaths were unavoidable. Some most certainly are. I love how you read things into my posts that are not there. Typical CH tactic.

I was asked about justifying civilian deaths. Not my fault that I actually answered it with the truth and then used to the Geneva Conventions on top of it.
Corneliu
23-08-2006, 02:18
lol dead civilians :) :p :D

Which is unfortunate but it would be justified because said building was being used for a purpose other than having citizens reside in it. Under International Law, if a civilian building is being used for military purposes, it is a legal target to hit and the blame on civilians lies at the feet of those using said building for military purposes.

That is something that CanuckHeaven cannot seem to understand.
Corneliu
23-08-2006, 02:21
doesnt it seem that these are the same people reporting that everyone person (including the ones with guns in their hands and bombs wrapped around their chest) are innocent civilians. and just about every building that gets bombed is either a civilians house or mosque.

They are the same people. You cannot trust the numbers they are giving because it will always be skewed. It has happened all throughout this conflict. Frankly, Israel should have bombed the shit out of Lebanon and punish them for leaving Hezbollah to fester and for violating 1559.
CanuckHeaven
23-08-2006, 02:55
Which is unfortunate but it would be justified because said building was being used for a purpose other than having citizens reside in it. Under International Law, if a civilian building is being used for military purposes, it is a legal target to hit and the blame on civilians lies at the feet of those using said building for military purposes.

That is something that CanuckHeaven cannot seem to understand.
You will quote the laws if they are to your advantage and you will break them if they are not. Quit spouting International law as a preceived blank cheque for performing atrocities. I am sure that God will be impressed with your ability to quote chapter and verse of International laws, especially when He throws His book at you.
Yesmusic
23-08-2006, 04:08
Which is unfortunate but it would be justified because said building was being used for a purpose other than having citizens reside in it. Under International Law, if a civilian building is being used for military purposes, it is a legal target to hit and the blame on civilians lies at the feet of those using said building for military purposes.

That is something that CanuckHeaven cannot seem to understand.

I was commenting more on your use of emoticon in a serious post. Your choice, whatever.
Corneliu
23-08-2006, 04:08
You will quote the laws if they are to your advantage and you will break them if they are not. Quit spouting International law as a preceived blank cheque for performing atrocities. I am sure that God will be impressed with your ability to quote chapter and verse of International laws, especially when He throws His book at you.

:rolleyes:

I love how you can ignore International Law when it suits you but yet hammer me when I uphold it. I never said it was a blank check CH. I would love it if you actually stop putting meaning behind my words when the meetings are not there. I would also would like you to stop taking things I say out of context. It really is annoying as hell.

I am ignoring the God part as it has no bearing on this thread. Do try to constrain your posts to the topic at hand and to stop attacking my religion.
Corneliu
23-08-2006, 04:14
I was commenting more on your use of emoticon in a serious post. Your choice, whatever.

I used that icon because I am tired of having this same argument with a closed minded liberal like CH over here and him telling me to justify something. I justified it so I added the little emoticon next to it because I know I have him over a barrel.
OcceanDrive
23-08-2006, 05:11
You cannot trust the numbers they are giving because it will always be skewed.(Israel/US Govs always say the Truth.. the Arabs always Lie)riiiigth..

*gently taps Corneliu in the forehead*
*wonders about the extreme simplicity of the neocon Universe*
CanuckHeaven
23-08-2006, 05:11
:rolleyes:

I love how you can ignore International Law when it suits you but yet hammer me when I uphold it. I never said it was a blank check CH. I would love it if you actually stop putting meaning behind my words when the meetings are not there. I would also would like you to stop taking things I say out of context. It really is annoying as hell.
I am certainly not putting any words in your mouth. Again, you ignore criticism by trying to turn it back on me. Well it is your dirty laundry and you can keep it.

I am ignoring the God part as it has no bearing on this thread. Do try to constrain your posts to the topic at hand and to stop attacking my religion.
I am not attacking your religion. I am just observing your "banner of righteousness". It is tattered beyond belief.
Corneliu
23-08-2006, 05:13
I am certainly not putting any words in your mouth. Again, you ignore criticism by trying to turn it back on me. Well it is your dirty laundry and you can keep it.

Funny how you are going after me and not what I said. I guess I won this round.
Corneliu
23-08-2006, 05:14
riiiigth..

*gently taps Corneliu in the forehead*
*wonders about the extreme simplicity of the neocon Universe*

Israel had their casualties right on the button. How many times has Lebanon revised casualties because they were flat out wrong as well as embellished?
OcceanDrive
23-08-2006, 05:16
Israel had their casualties right on the button. how would you know?
Yesmusic
23-08-2006, 05:17
Israel had their casualties right on the button. How many times has Lebanon revised casualties because they were flat out wrong as well as embellished?

The Israeli government has full control of the Galilee, where their civilian casualties occurred, and so they can easily make an official account. Southern Lebanon has been abandoned by the Lebanese government for many years, and so we have conflicting casualty numbers from the government, the UN and Hezbollah. One possibility.
Corneliu
23-08-2006, 05:18
The Israeli government has full control of the Galilee, where their civilian casualties occurred, and so they can easily make an official account. Southern Lebanon has been abandoned by the Lebanese government for many years, and so we have conflicting casualty numbers from the government, the UN and Hezbollah. One possibility.

Mostly from Hezbollah and the Lebanonese President. Sorry but they have had lost alot of credibility and it looks like they do not want it back for they are not going after Hezbollah's weapons as proscribed in 1559.
Corneliu
23-08-2006, 05:19
how would you know?

Have they revised their casualty counts?
OcceanDrive
23-08-2006, 05:22
I guess I won this round.You have outragously proclaimed victory a few times on this thread.. specially on the EU-terror-list issue.
I can see you have tuned it down a bit.. I like it better when you go bananas.. its more entertaining :D
Corneliu
23-08-2006, 05:24
You have outragously proclaimed victory a few times on this thread.. specially on the EU-terror-list issue.

I can see you have tuned it down a bit.. I like it better when you go bananas.. its more entertaining :D

Just like you failing to recognize that Lebanon has no claim to Shebaa Farms. You have yet to admit defeat. Shebaa Farms belongs to Syria and that is a fact dumbass.
OcceanDrive
23-08-2006, 05:25
Have they revised their casualty counts?I do not know.. But that is NO proof.

Let me give you an scenario (example)..

Saddam body count of Kurdish victims could be of.. lets say.. 100 dead.

Even if he never revised the casualty count.. it does not mean that was the actual number..
Corneliu
23-08-2006, 05:25
I do not know.. But that is NO proof.

It is a bit more accurate than always correcting yourself because you got caught in a lie. Someting that happens to you quite often.
CanuckHeaven
23-08-2006, 05:31
You have outragously proclaimed victory a few times on this thread.. specially on the EU-terror-list issue.
I can see you have tuned it down a bit.. I like it better when you go bananas.. its more entertaining :D
I have found his proclaimations of victory very amusing, and his dearth of anything factual predictable as usual. :D
Corneliu
23-08-2006, 05:32
I have found his proclaimations of victory very amusing, and his dearth of anything factual predictable as usual. :D

I am still waiting on you to show that my justification for attacking a "civilian" target meets your criteria CH. So why dn't you stop attacking me and go after my post.
OcceanDrive
23-08-2006, 05:34
It is a bit more accurate than always correcting yourself because you got caught in a lie. Someting that happens to you quite often.well If tomorrow they find 100 more bodies under the rubble in some isolated Lebanese town.. I am sure you will scream
"its a lie, they just added 100 to the casualty count."
Corneliu
23-08-2006, 05:35
well If tomorrow they find 100 more bodies under the rubble in some isolated Lebanese town.. I am sure you will scream its a lie.. they just added 100 to the casualty count.

Goes to show how little you know me. I my find it suspect but that does not mean I will find it a lie.
Yesmusic
23-08-2006, 05:38
Corneliu, what does the civilian casualty count honestly matter? If one is killed, or ten, or one hundred, the principle is the same - that is, if the killing might have been avoided. THAT is the issue at hand.

That's why I don't belittle the Israeli civilian deaths. There were certainly fewer than on the Lebanese side, which is only natural considering the better defense on the Israeli side. Still, the Israeli deaths are as tragic as the Lebanese deaths - regardless of numbers. A death is a death. I'm sorry that I don't consider a person of one nationality to be worth more than one of another, really.
CanuckHeaven
23-08-2006, 05:38
I am still waiting on you to show that my justification for attacking a "civilian" target meets your criteria CH. So why dn't you stop attacking me and go after my post.
I did go after your post and even gave you an assignment. Instead of coming back with any kind of proof, you attacked me. The irony is incredible.

Your scenario was totally hypothetical and not reality based. Try harder next time. Hardcore facts....bring 'em on!!
Corneliu
23-08-2006, 05:43
Corneliu, what does the civilian casualty count honestly matter? If one is killed, or ten, or one hundred, the principle is the same - that is, if the killing might have been avoided. THAT is the issue at hand.

You are right that it should have been avoided. This whole conflict should have been avoided. Unfortunately, Hezbollah was allowed to keep their weapons and Lebanon did not do a thing to stop Hezbollah. Hezbollah crossed the border and captured 2 IDF soldiers. Frankly, I do not blame the IDF for attacking both Hezbollah and Lebanon.

That's why I don't belittle the Israeli civilian deaths. There were certainly fewer than on the Lebanese side, which is only natural considering the better defense on the Israeli side.

And crappy rockets of Hezbollah.

Still, the Israeli deaths are as tragic as the Lebanese deaths - regardless of numbers. A death is a death. I'm sorry that I don't consider a person of one nationality to be worth more than one of another, really.

Well said. Very well said indeed.
OcceanDrive
23-08-2006, 05:45
well If tomorrow they find 100 more bodies under the rubble in some isolated Lebanese town.. I am sure you will scream
"its a lie, they just added 100 to the casualty count."Goes to show how little you know me. I my find it suspect but that does not mean I will find it a lie.I know you a lot.. because you post a lot.
You cannot trust the numbers they (Lebanese) are giving because it will always be skewed.
Corneliu
23-08-2006, 05:46
I did go after your post and even gave you an assignment. Instead of coming back with any kind of proof, you attacked me. The irony is incredible.

Oh that's a bunch of Bullshit for I did answer your question. Not my fault you did not like it. I can drag the answer back out for you if you missed it the first time. Of course, you would just ignore it again because it was not the answer you were looking for.

Your scenario was totally hypothetical and not reality based. Try harder next time. Hardcore facts....bring 'em on!!

Weapons being fired from civilian buildings is no hypothetical CH. It has and is occuring. Hezbollah has done so. Why do you think Israel was bombing what they were bombing? Granted some of those buildings probably had nothing to do with Hezbollah and should not have been hit but what about those buildings that were indeed used by Hezbollah? Should Israel risk ground forces on those and suffer greater casualties as a result or drop a 500lb bomb on it? It all comes down to numbers CH.
Corneliu
23-08-2006, 05:48
I know you a lot.. because you post a lot.

Nice edit of my post. I know I did not put the word Lebanon in it.
OcceanDrive
23-08-2006, 05:49
// going AFK// back in 12h+

Good nigth NSG warriors.. I salute you all.
OcceanDrive
23-08-2006, 05:53
Nice edit of my post. I know I did not put the word Lebanon in it.reposting you postThey are the same people. You cannot trust the numbers they are giving because it will always be skewed. It has happened all throughout this conflict. Frankly, Israel should have bombed the shit out of Lebanon and punish them for leaving Hezbollah to fester and for violating 1559.who is "they" ?? The labanese casualty count is being furnished by the Lebanese Governemnt.
CanuckHeaven
23-08-2006, 06:02
Oh that's a bunch of Bullshit for I did answer your question. Not my fault you did not like it. I can drag the answer back out for you if you missed it the first time. Of course, you would just ignore it again because it was not the answer you were looking for.

Weapons being fired from civilian buildings is no hypothetical CH. It has and is occuring. Hezbollah has done so. Why do you think Israel was bombing what they were bombing? Granted some of those buildings probably had nothing to do with Hezbollah and should not have been hit but what about those buildings that were indeed used by Hezbollah? Should Israel risk ground forces on those and suffer greater casualties as a result or drop a 500lb bomb on it? It all comes down to numbers CH.
You call "bullshit" a lot. You call people morons, and dummies, and then you make claims that you can't back up with any semblance of fact. Even when you have been owned, you claim victory. You call people "cowards" and state that Spain is a "coward" for leaving Iraq, even though they helped the US. Yet would anyone find you anywhere near a battlefield? Of course not. You have those nice religious quotes in your siggy but you are sensative to anyone calling you on them.

Sorry to dump on ya Corny, but it is difficult to swallow your "bullshit".
Alleghany County
23-08-2006, 06:08
I believe that this thread has gone one:

1) far past the point that it should

and

2) far off topic.

The bunker buster worked fine. The fact though was that the Hezbollah leader was not in it.
Alleghany County
23-08-2006, 06:10
Oh and Corneliu, stop bashing others. It does nothing to help the situation nor is it proper debating decorum. And CanuckHeaven, that goes for you to.
CanuckHeaven
24-08-2006, 02:18
Oh and Corneliu, stop bashing others. It does nothing to help the situation nor is it proper debating decorum. And CanuckHeaven, that goes for you to.
Corny and I go back 2 1/2 years and every once in awhile, I need to kick his ass. Besides, what I stated was true. :D
Alleghany County
24-08-2006, 03:34
Corny and I go back 2 1/2 years and every once in awhile, I need to kick his ass. Besides, what I stated was true. :D

So let me ask you this. If someone is firing at you from a civilian structure, would you hit?
Psychotic Mongooses
24-08-2006, 03:36
So let me ask you this. If someone is firing at you from a civilian structure, would you hit?
Would I level the civilian structure with the knowledge there are civilians (and probably children) inside? No. I'm a better person than that.
Psychotic Mongooses
24-08-2006, 03:38
Even if it ment the life of yourself and those of your squad?
I don't kill the innocent. End of.
Alleghany County
24-08-2006, 03:38
Would I level the civilian structure with the knowledge there are civilians (and probably children) inside? No. I'm a better person than that.

Even if it ment the life of yourself and those of your squad?
Dobbsworld
24-08-2006, 03:39
Even if it ment the life of yourself and those of your squad?
Care to add any more conditionals? Y'know, just so we can side-step this part of the ritual?


It's someone's birthday... the children in the building keep shooting dirty looks your way... the sun gets in your eyes... uhh, you've all got hangovers...

You know. Just cut to the chase.