NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2277717_1,00.html
AS ISRAEL wages war against Hezbollah “terrorists” in Lebanon, Britain has protested about the celebration by right-wing Israelis of a Jewish “act of terrorism” against British rule 60 years ago this week.

The rightwingers, including Binyamin Netanyahu, the former Prime Minister, are commemorating the bombing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, the headquarters of British rule, that killed 92 people and helped to drive the British from Palestine.

They have erected a plaque outside the restored building, and are holding a two-day seminar with speeches and a tour of the hotel by one of the Jewish resistance fighters involved in the attack.
So, while condemning the actions of Hezbollah and liberally pasting the people of Lebanon in response the Israelis felt that they couldn't miss the opportunity to celebrate their own "freedom fighters" at the same time. Of course it goes without saying that there is no moral equivalence between the terrorist attacks of Irgun and Hezbollah.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2277717_1,00.html

So, while condemning the actions of Hezbollah and liberally pasting the people of Lebanon in response the Israelis felt that they couldn't miss the opportunity to celebrate their own "freedom fighters" at the same time. Of course it goes without saying that there is no moral equivalence between the terrorist attacks of Irgun and Hezbollah.

Why are you surprised at this fact?

Most of the american liberators were terrorists to the eyes of the british too.

Terrorism, as beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

So, while condemning the actions of Hezbollah and liberally pasting the people of Lebanon in response the Israelis felt that they couldn't miss the opportunity to celebrate their own "freedom fighters" at the same time. Of course it goes without saying that there is no moral equivalence between the terrorist attacks of Irgun and Hezbollah.
Of course. It's celebrating Jewish action, so therefore it's NOT terrorism. Didn't you know?

Why are you surprised at this fact?

Most of the american liberators were terrorists to the eyes of the british too.

Terrorism, as beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.
Of course the American founding fathers fought for freedom, not for a despotic, theocratic regime.

Of course the American founding fathers fought for freedom, not for a despotic, theocratic regime.

That is what you say now.

I'll dress my kids as mujaidin fighters on carnival, and I'll build a nice reputation about those arab heroes, just as the anglosaxon culture did with pirates.

Time changes everything.

Time changes everything.
Sometimes.

ETA makes phone calls to allow the Spanish to evacuate places they are bombing. ETA is a terrorist organization. I see little difference.

ETA makes phone calls to allow the Spanish to evacuate places they are bombing. ETA is a terrorist organization. I see little difference.


That's a fact

That's even if they did telephone a warning. A favourite trick of the IRA was to swear blind that they'd given a warning, even when the warning was too late, too vague, none existant or deliberately incorrect to target people evacuated from the warning area.

That's even if they did telephone a warning. A favourite trick of the IRA was to swear blind that they'd given a warning, even when the warning was too late, too vague, none existant or deliberately incorrect to target people evacuated from the warning area.

The ETA, although, made real, accurate warnings. I once left a town because they called the police to tell them they had buried a bomb beneath the sand of the beach.

Everyone left, two days after that the bomb exploded and threw some sand into the air, and that was it.

And that's where the difference lies. The King David Hotel was being occupied by British troops. It was therefore a military target. However, because there were also civilians there, the militants called ahead to have the building evacuated. I do beleive that that qualifies as legitimate resistance.

When Hamas and Hezbollah abducted Israeli soldiers I did not consider that a terrorist action. However, that doesn't mean that Israel hadn't a right to respond.

That's even if they did telephone a warning. A favourite trick of the IRA was to swear blind that they'd given a warning, even when the warning was too late, too vague, none existant or deliberately incorrect to target people evacuated from the warning area.

The IRA did a good one in Manchester where they put two bombs in two bins then called in a warning on one of them knowing that people would be evacuation towards the other.

In saying that, I was in Manchester on the day of the big bomb in '96 and the warning probably saved my families lives.

When Hamas and Hezbollah abducted Israeli soldiers I did not consider that a terrorist action. However, that doesn't mean that Israel hadn't a right to respond.
Though if the British had responded with even a fraction of the force Israel is using every time Jewish resistance groups attacked them and civilians, using the rational that their sheltering among civilians made the civilians valid targets, it wouldn't have been pretty.

The IRA did a good one in Manchester where they put two bombs in two bins then called in a warning on one of them knowing that people would be evacuation towards the other.

Or in Omagh where the warning said the bomb was at the courthouse, so people were evacuated down a road to the main shopping street...where the bomb was.

Or in Omagh where the warning said the bomb was at the courthouse, so people were evacuated down a road to the main shopping street...where the bomb was.
Well, that wasn't the IRA per se, but your point is noted.

As for the OP, a big 'meh'.

We celebrated a 'terrorist' uprising at Easter as our 'Day of Independence'. Each to their own.

Well, that wasn't the IRA per se, but your point is noted.

Well, it was one of the IRAs :p



We celebrated a 'terrorist' uprising at Easter as our 'Day of Independence'. Each to their own.

I think calling the Easter Rising a terrorist uprising would be stretching it a bit...the IRB were certainly a bit dodgy, but the Irish Volunteers weren't terrorists.

Even the original IRA of the War of Independence (as opposed to the 'Official' IRA) I wouldn't call terrorists.

The Provos etc. though definitely are.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2277717_1,00.html

So, while condemning the actions of Hezbollah and liberally pasting the people of Lebanon in response the Israelis felt that they couldn't miss the opportunity to celebrate their own "freedom fighters" at the same time. Of course it goes without saying that there is no moral equivalence between the terrorist attacks of Irgun and Hezbollah.
there were warning, but anyway it doesn't matter too much.
the etzel which made this attack wasn't one of the main organizations. he was right-wing radical and was opposed by the majority of the jewish people at that times. the main organizations try to act in more diplomatic ways.
also, this organizations didn't try to kill all the british or the arabs. when you fight for freedom, you are freedom fighter. if you want to destruct other nation or kill the other side, you are terrorist as hizbulla.
I add that it wasn't celebration but memorial day for this action. they don't make party for the deaths, or something.
the ones who were in that "celebration" aren't represent anybody but themselves. it probably isn't "israel celebrated" as you claimed.

main point, it uncomparable to the terrorists of present days (like hammas or hizbulla).

main point, it uncomparable to the terrorists of present days (like hammas or hizbulla).ETA is still around...

there were warning, but anyway it doesn't matter too much.
the etzel which made this attack wasn't one of the main organizations. he was right-wing radical and was opposed by the majority of the jewish people at that times. the main organizations try to act in more diplomatic ways.
also, this organizations didn't try to kill all the british or the arabs. when you fight for freedom, you are freedom fighter. if you want to destruct other nation or kill the other side, you are terrorist as hizbulla.
I add that it wasn't celebration but memorial day for this action. they don't make party for the deaths, or something.
the ones who were in that "celebration" aren't represent anybody but themselves. it probably isn't "israel celebrated" as you claimed.

main point, it uncomparable to the terrorists of present days (like hammas or hizbulla).

Ohh, so now being a terrorist depends on your motives for killing people and destroying things to scare people into doing your bidding. You aren't a "real" terrorist if you're doing it for freedom. Even though the palestinians are occupied, technically making them fighting for freedom, even if they have other goals as well.

And since when has hezbollah been fighting to wipe out israel?

Didn't the King David hotel have many British Officers in it?

Didn't the King David hotel have many British Officers in it?It was there headquarters. Most of the victims were civilians though.

Right-wingers does not mean Israel. Israel is not celebrating, it's right-wingers are. You quoted so yourself.

Right-wingers does not mean Israel. Israel is not celebrating, it's right-wingers are. You quoted so yourself.True. It's nice that Igrun was publicly condemned by the other resistance groups at the time this was happening, too.

Ohh, so now being a terrorist depends on your motives for killing people and destroying things to scare people into doing your bidding. You aren't a "real" terrorist if you're doing it for freedom. Even though the palestinians are occupied, technically making them fighting for freedom, even if they have other goals as well.IF they were fighting for freedom and try to avoid civilian deaths by warning.
they don't do the second part, and their fight from the withdrawing territories and refusal to negotiate prove they don't do the first either.

And since when has hezbollah been fighting to wipe out israel?since it definitely isn't fight for end of the occuption of lebanon, which end before 6 years.

Why are you surprised at this fact?

Most of the american liberators were terrorists to the eyes of the british too.

Terrorism, as beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

how true!

the difference most miss is the intentional targeting of innocents.

oh the noble terrorist hamas and hezboolah...blowing up kids..gotta love that!

at least the israilis dont intentionally target kids....if the us and the jews got pissed...the counties known as arabian would be levelled,as would all inhbitants..something we could accomplish easily...but fot mpral reasons..would never...flip the coin..the noble freedom fighters will kill man women and child..cause they love hate.

IF they were fighting for freedom and try to avoid civilian deaths by warning.
they don't do the second part, and their fight from the withdrawing territories and refusal to negotiate prove they don't do the first either.By that definition, ETA is not a terrorist organization. This is contrary to the truth.

how true!

the difference most miss is the intentional targeting of innocents.

oh the noble terrorist hamas and hezboolah...blowing up kids..gotta love that!

at least the israilis dont intentionally target kids....if the us and the jews got pissed...the counties known as arabian would be levelled,as would all inhbitants..something we could accomplish easily...but fot mpral reasons..would never...flip the coin..the noble freedom fighters will kill man women and child..cause they love hate.

So what you are saying is that if i accidentaly murder someone, i shouldnt be charged for murder, because "i didn't target the person intentionally".

Your airforce drops tons of bombs in heavily populated urban areas, you know damn well there is one chance in a million that you WONT kill innocent people, so don't come with that righteous "we don't target them on pourpose" stuff.

So what you are saying is that if i accidentaly murder someone, i shouldnt be charged for murder, because "i didn't target the person intentionally".

Your airforce drops tons of bombs in heavily populated urban areas, you know damn well there is one chance in a million that you WONT kill innocent people, so don't come with that righteous "we don't target them on pourpose" stuff.Accidentally murdering someone isn't possible. At least in Germany. In fact, intentionally killing someone isn't the same as involuntary manslaughter either.

Accidentally murdering someone isn't possible. At least in Germany. In fact, intentionally killing someone isn't the same as involuntary manslaughter either.

True, it's not the same, but in both instances people are accountable. If you accidentally kill someone, you don't get a out of jail free card.

That is what fanatical supporters of Israel want to do to the IDF, like if even involuntary killing had absolutely no consequences, or moral importance.

And of course, as i posted, I dispute the "involuntary" part. Drop bombs in a urban area, and you get civilians killed, they know that - Some years ago, some Israeli Airforce Pilots wrote a letter in protest because of that, they were being sent in missions with a high probabilty of civilian kills.

http://www.worldpress.org/Mideast/1667.cfm

It's pretty hypocritical.

It's pretty hypocritical.Israel? Hardly. We're talking about the people that typically populate the Likud block, which the Israelis I know here refer to as "a bunch of representatives that nobody gives a shit about what they think anyways."
They might be wrong about how popular these people are, but it certainly shows that not everyone is celebrating Igrun...