NationStates Jolt Archive

Well, I was looking on eBay last night to see if anybody had a same or better quality Hemispheres LP as the one I damaged a few months ago, and I was surprised: A Near-Mint condition one (even the sleeve looks nicer) for $12.00 total! I bought it, and I found another great one...

...The Holidays In The Sun 1977 U.K. 7" in Near-Mint condition, picture sleeve and all, for a total of $15.99. I never thought I'd find it, but I did. Yeah yeah, God Save The Queen is the better record, but this one is much harder to find, especially in its condition.

So, I'm sitting here, thinking about what records to buy next month (just twelve more days, damnit)... There's a lot I could buy, but I might be forgetting some great bands and whatnot. So come on and make suggestions, peeps.

Or you could buy C.D's or just down load the music!

Or you could buy C.D's or just down load the music!

Number one, the CD reissues of these are total shit. Number two, there is no CD version of the Holidays In The Sun 7". Number three, I have, and compressed music is nothing compared to vinyl.

Number one, the CD reissues of these are total shit. Number two, there is no CD version of the Holidays In The Sun 7". Number three, I have, and compressed music is nothing compared to vinyl.
Yeah. Vinyl sounds like shit. As does Rush, so I don't know why you bother.

Yeah. Vinyl sounds like shit. As does Rush, so I don't know why you bother.
While I have no opinion, I do find it hard to believe music created by the scratching of a metal needle on a vinyl surface would create better musical quality than digitally mastered mathematical waves designed to put out a specific type and tone of sound.

While I have no opinion, I do find it hard to believe music created by the scratching of a metal needle on a vinyl surface would create better musical quality than digitally mastered mathematical waves designed to put out a specific type and tone of sound.
Exactly.

Or you could buy C.D's or just down load the music!

You'll have to forgive me sir, but saying this to someone who has the original LP is akin to HERESY!!!

While I have no opinion, I do find it hard to believe music created by the scratching of a metal needle on a vinyl surface would create better musical quality than digitally mastered mathematical waves designed to put out a specific type and tone of sound.

By this logic do you also find it hard to believe that horsehair covered in resin scratched across strips of sheep gut affixed to a lump of wood would create better musical quality than either?

While I have no opinion, I do find it hard to believe music created by the scratching of a metal needle on a vinyl surface would create better musical quality than digitally mastered mathematical waves designed to put out a specific type and tone of sound.

Ah, yes because every time you carry out a conversion from analogue to digital or digital to analogue you add musical quality to a performance?

While I have no opinion, I do find it hard to believe music created by the scratching of a metal needle on a vinyl surface would create better musical quality than digitally mastered mathematical waves designed to put out a specific type and tone of sound.

While I generally purchase CDs over vinyl, analogue recordings have a wider frequency range. The difference between the two formats isn't noticeable if you take an album recorded digitally, and therefore firstly for CD (and pressed to vinyl later), as both versions are subject to the limitations of the digital format.

But with old albums originally recorded in analogue format, the difference between CD and vinyl is definitely noticeable (some would argue it is not, but i disagree - some people argue 128k MP3's sound the same as CDs, too.)

By this logic do you also find it hard to believe that horsehair covered in resin scratched across strips of sheep gut affixed to a lump of wood would create better musical quality than either?
Banjos are silly.

But that is comparing apples and tomatos. There is no recording format inbetween the instrument and the listener.

And older records switched to CD usually keep a good bit of noise.

While I generally purchase CDs over vinyl, analogue recordings have a wider frequency range.

True, but CDs have a range which covers the entire spectrum of human hearing (20Hz-20kHz), so any benefits from vinyl as far as frequency range goes are going to be in the areas you can't directly hear with your ears.

The real joke is that CDs are still being championed on the basis of their increased dynamic range, and it is certainly true that they have a far lower noise floor and increased headroom compared to vinyl, but current trends in mxing and mastering are leading to contemporary releases being ludicrousy compressed (in the musical, not the data sense). Thus the vast majority of mainstream CD releases have fallen victim to the loudness wars and are full of intentionally clipped waveforms and laughably small dynamics (ranges of about 5db in some cases). Insane.

Banjos are silly.

Sorry.

Debating musical quality with someone who can't tell the difference between a banjo and a violin is obviously an utter waste of my time. The above was a description of the family of bowed instruments, not membranophones.

True, but CDs have a range which covers the entire spectrum of human hearing (20Hz-20kHz), so any benefits from vinyl as far as frequency range goes are going to be in the areas you can't directly hear with your ears.

On average, but aren't there people who can hear beyond that? Meh.

The real joke is that CDs are still being championed on the basis of their increased dynamic range, and it is certainly true that they have a far lower noise floor and increased headroom compared to vinyl, but current trends in mxing and mastering are leading to contemporary releases being ludicrousy compressed (in the musical, not the data sense). Thus the vast majority of mainstream CD releases have fallen victim to the loudness wars and are full of intentionally clipped waveforms and laughably small dynamics (ranges of about 5db in some cases). Insane.

But louder is better, remember? (kidding) :p

On average, but aren't there people who can hear beyond that? Meh.

It has never been satisfactorily scientifically proven that there are, to the best of my knowledge. Anecdotal reports are all I have come across, such as that of the engineer who didn't like one channel on his mising desk and later found on the test bench that it had a tendency to produce a 37kHZ tone. Note however that I was being somewhat cagey about the effects of sub- and infra-sonics on the human body and psyche though.

Take the 50Hz low fundamental of a good kick drum for example - although it does fall within the range of standard human hearing at sufficiently loud volumes it is primarily experienced as a thump to the sternum rather than a sound which is actually heard through the ears - certainly you hear it in the conventional manner (excepting any cases of profound deafness obviously), but the primary experience is a more directly physical one.

Sorry.

Debating musical quality with someone who can't tell the difference between a banjo and a violin is obviously an utter waste of my time. The above was a description of the family of bowed instruments, not membranophones.
Oh I'm sorry that I am not familiar with the configuration of every single type of musical instrument ever made and for not realizing that there even is any sheep gut in a violin.

You can continue on with your air of superiority now.

Oh I'm sorry that I am not familiar with the configuration of every single type of musical instrument ever made and for not realizing that there even is any sheep gut in a violin.

I would have thought that the reference to horsehair and resin were the keys there.

You can continue on with your air of superiority now.

Hey, was it you or I that described an instrument I have spent a lot of time playing as 'silly'? Kettle, pot, black?

All of this, and no suggestions? Come on people, you can do better...

It has never been satisfactorily scientifically proven that there are, to the best of my knowledge. Anecdotal reports are all I have come across, such as that of the engineer who didn't like one channel on his mising desk and later found on the test bench that it had a tendency to produce a 37kHZ tone. Note however that I was being somewhat cagey about the effects of sub- and infra-sonics on the human body and psyche though.

Take the 50Hz low fundamental of a good kick drum for example - although it does fall within the range of standard human hearing at sufficiently loud volumes it is primarily experienced as a thump to the sternum rather than a sound which is actually heard through the ears - certainly you hear it in the conventional manner (excepting any cases of profound deafness obviously), but the primary experience is a more directly physical one.

I was going to mention "feeling" sounds, but I didn't think you'd be able to notice that on a home stereo system. It's definitely the case in live performances, but I doubt any conventional home speaker setup would have that effect.

All of this, and no suggestions? Come on people, you can do better...

Suggestions on what to buy? That depends. If you like prog rock, than I'd go with King Crimson, Yes, or Pink Floyd. Of course, my tatse in music also obligates me to mention Black Sabbath, Metallica, Pearl Jam, Radiohead, Green Day, Iron Maiden, Deep Purple. As for Rush, depends on what you have already. I'm not a big Rush fan, but I like Moving Pictures and 2112.

I would have thought that the reference to horsehair and resin were the keys there.
Again, sorry oh master of musical instruments for not knowing the configuration and composition of every single musical instrument.

Hey, was it you or I that described an instrument I have spent a lot of time playing as 'silly'? Kettle, pot, black?
You play the banjo?

I was going to mention "feeling" sounds, but I didn't think you'd be able to notice that on a home stereo system. It's definitely the case in live performances, but I doubt any conventional home speaker setup would have that effect.

I guess my Tannoy speakers with their 12" cones probably fall outside of the definitional of 'conventional', but yeah, pushing 50Hz at a live gig is going to have much more of an effect than in your sitting room, all other things being equal.

Wikipedia made mention of some people being able to hear up to 22kHz, and possibly it is so, but that only amounts to about a tenth of an extra octave there, and so is hardly anything to write home about - of course, the 20Hz-20kHz thing is just a rule of thumb as the suspiciously clean numbers would lead you to believe.

All of this, and no suggestions? Come on people, you can do better...

Okay, vinyl albums...

Dead Kennedys - Fresh Fruit for Rotting Vegetables
The Doors - The Doors
Any of the Velvet Underground's first three records...
Any of the Stooges' first three records...
Any of the first four Black Sabbath albums...
The Clash - The Clash
Led Zeppelin I or III

That'll do.

Suggestions on what to buy? That depends. If you like prog rock, than I'd go with King Crimson, Yes, or Pink Floyd. Of course, my tatse in music also obligates me to mention Black Sabbath, Metallica, Pearl Jam, Radiohead, Green Day, Iron Maiden, Deep Purple. As for Rush, depends on what you have already. I'm not a big Rush fan, but I like Moving Pictures and 2112.

I've actually thought about looking into Yes, because I've heard some good things. Pink Floyd, too, so long as it's not The Wall (Dark Side of the Moon is more like it).

Black Sabbath? I'd go for that, definitely. Metallica... I've always found them boring (same with Pearl Jam). Radiohead and Green Day are okay, but I'd definitely opt for Maiden (Powerslave) or Deep Purple over them.

And I already have 2112 and Moving Pictures. :p

Any of the Stooges' first three records...
Any of the first four Black Sabbath albums...
The Clash - The Clash


'sfunny.

The recently remastered CD of Raw Power is always being cited as one of the worst offenders in the loudness wars that I was talking about earlier, and by god it sounds terrible compared to the vinyl or even the unremastered CD. It sound fucking loud, but it also sounds fucking bad.

As for Black Sabbath their albums are also prime offenders in the needless remastering stakes - take Paranoid for example, the charm of the original is that it is lacking in definition and has a dark feel to the sound, whereas the CD version is so aurally bright and thin sounding that the fantastic woodeny tones of the original are lost completely.

As for The Clash take a listen to Koka Kola on vinyl and then on CD - the bell at the start is utterly the wrong pitch and speeds up as the track starts. An error which wasn't even fixed when they re-released London Calling with the Vanilla Tapes.

'sfunny.

The recently remastered CD of Raw Power is always being cited as one of the worst offenders in the loudness wars that I was talking about earlier, and by god it sounds terrible compared to the vinyl or even the unremastered CD. It sound fucking loud, but it also sounds fucking bad.

Yeah, i've got it. It's atrocious - good thing it only cost $10. Still hunting around for the vinyl copy. (i'm dubious of buying vinyl from overseas via. ebay...)

As for Black Sabbath their albums are also prime offenders in the needless remastering stakes - take Paranoid for example, the charm of the original is that it is lacking in definition and has a dark feel to the sound, whereas the CD version is so aurally bright and thin sounding that the fantastic woodeny tones of the original are lost completely.

I can't say anything for Paranoid, but I did have a copy of Master of Reality on CD that sounded terrible - however, I bought a different remaster that sounded much better. It's up to the quality of the release you get, which of course, you usually have no way of knowing prior to purchase. It's better to get the vinyl anyway to play it safe, of course.

As for The Clash take a listen to Koka Kola on vinyl and then on CD - the bell at the start is utterly the wrong pitch and speeds up as the track starts. An error which wasn't even fixed when they re-released London Calling with the Vanilla Tapes.

'mm. I'm less than impressed by the Clash's CD releases..

'mm. I'm less than impressed by the Clash's CD releases..

Don't personally own any of them on CD myself, as my vinyl is still holding up very nicely after all these years.

Don't personally own any of them on CD myself, as my vinyl is still holding up very nicely after all these years.

Bleh. I have to resort to my university's music library whenever I want to listen to them. :p

Hehe. First time I looked at the thread I misread the title as this:




Looks like Pol Pot finally replaced his damaged Rush LP!

Looks like Pol Pot finally replaced his damaged Rush LP!

Everyone knows the only thing Pol Pot listened to was the Dead Kennedys.