NationStates Jolt Archive

Well at least someone is trying to stop the Islamic militias and I suppose its better that it's a local country rather than some foreign country.

NAIROBI, Kenya - Ethiopia is prepared to invade neighboring Somalia to defend its U.N.-backed government against what appeared to be an imminent attack by Islamic militiamen, a government spokesman said Wednesday.

The militiamen, who hold most of southern Somalia, deployed hundreds of fighters outside the town where the largely powerless government is based and said they planned to seize it.

"We have the responsibility to defend the border and the Somali government. We will crush them," Ethiopia's Minister of Information, Berhan Hailu, told The Associated Press.

Seizing the town of Baidoa would give the Islamic militia — which the United States has linked to al-Qaida — the uncontested authority over most of Somalia.

Somali transitional President Abdullahi Yusuf Ahmed is allied with Ethiopia, and has asked for its support. Ethiopia has intervened militarily in Somalia in the past, and hundreds of Ethiopian troops have been spotted along the countries' border in recent weeks.

The Somali Islamist militants are allied with Muslim separatists in the Oromo region of Ethiopia.

Well at least someone is trying to stop the Islamic militias and I suppose its better that it's a local country rather than some foreign country.

I heard about that almost a month ago...

Why is it that after all this time Ethiopia still hasn't realised it should be spending its money on food, not war?

Why is it that after all this time Ethiopia still hasn't realised it should be spending its money on food, not war?
Why shouldn't they have fun invading another country? It's all the rage, haven't you heard?

Wow. And LOL to Philosophy.

No not LOL to Philosophy. He/She is damn well right. I can see why Ethiopia spend so much money on war etc but its not right and I think that is the point that was being made.

This is an excellent thing. These monsters need to be stopped so that Somalia doesn't slide towards the repression and ignorance that the plague of Islamic fundamentalism brings to the nations it gains a foothold in. In order to beat that murderous ideology the Ethiopians, Somalians, and anyone else in Africa or the rest of the world have to take a stand and crush them, be it through force or diplomacy.

This is an excellent thing. These monsters need to be stopped so that Somalia doesn't slide towards the repression and ignorance that the plague of Islamic fundamentalism brings to the nations it gains a foothold in. In order to beat that murderous ideology the Ethiopians, Somalians, and anyone else in Africa or the rest of the world have to take a stand and crush them, be it through force or diplomacy.


So when's our invasion scheduled so that we don't fall toward the repression and ignoreance the plague of Christian fundamentalism brings?

Canada, I'm looking at you.

Pfft, these are the people who got owned by Eritrea.

Good luck... they'll need all the fright wigs they can get.

So when's our invasion scheduled so that we don't fall toward the repression and ignoreance the plague of Christian fundamentalism brings.

We have to wait until they start attacking us to do that. At least for now we can crush them at the polls, so we need to get out there and vote.

We could look at it this way 2 more years and the window of opportunity will open to stop the fundies in their tracks once and for all...2006 is the beginning of the end for them but 2008 will be the end of the line for that ignorant, dangerous ideology.

Naivete is so cute!

They'll never run out of ignorant people.

Why is it that after all this time Ethiopia still hasn't realised it should be spending its money on food, not war?
So you want Islamic Fundamentalists to take over Africa?

Naivete is so cute! They'll never run out of ignorant people.

We'll never run out of ignorant people, but they will.

Modern-day Christian fundamentalism is only 100 years old; I hardly think it's as durable as some people think it is. We can beat them in the polls because most people don't like the government telling them what they can do or what they can believe. Also, the declining support for gay-marriage bans is going to hurt them because that's one of the few issues that branched out in to mainstream religious groups.

So you want Islamic Fundamentalists to take over Africa?
I'd rather they were stopped by someone who had the ability to put food on the table.

Why is it that after all this time Ethiopia still hasn't realised it should be spending its money on food, not war?
Because socialism is evil or arn't you familiar with the US system?

I'd rather they were stopped by someone who had the ability to put food on the table.

Well, it's easier to do so if you don't have to spend money fighting raiders. If Ethiopia defeats the militants, they might be able to better manage their economy and produce enough food; if they don't, the raiders might start encroaching on their territory and cause even more problems.

Attacking Somalia will only further destabilise the region. The Islamists already have most of the country under their control, and attempting to dig them out when they have fairly widespread popular support, from a nation that hates Ethiopia and would see an invasion as a war of occupation, would be bloody and ultimately futile.

Although the Islamic Courts are obviously a fundamentalist regime, they have managed to remove much of the anarchy and lawlessness in the areas under their control, and have opened schools and hospitals. As bad as they are, they are better governors than the warlords. The troubling aspect is their rigid adherence to Shari'a law, although it is unlikely that this would be any worse than the warlords who attacked UN aid workers delivering food during their drought and famine in the early 90s. Despite the claims of their ties to al-Qaeda, no real proof has been given of a link.

The best solution to this problem is not for Ethiopia to attack. Committed sanctions by the African Union, or better still the UN, could force the Islamic Courts and the government back into negotiations. A coalition government between the two would allow for Somalia to have an effective leadership (something it has lacked for over a decade) while allowing the secular politicians to act as a brake on the installment of Shari'a law, made easier by allying with the moderate elements in the Islamic Courts who rebelled out of being tired of the warlords rather than installing strict Shari'a law.

Unfortunately this probably won't happen, and we can look forward to another decade of atrocities in East Africa.

No not LOL to Philosophy. He/She is damn well right. I can see why Ethiopia spend so much money on war etc but its not right and I think that is the point that was being made.

It is ignorant to think that spending all your money for social programs will make everythng ok. You have to have a military and some times use it. Ethopia obviously realizes with Somalia if they don't do something it will cost them in the long run. For example more refugees coming to Ethopia. Cross border incursions by Islamic radicals etc. It is fairly basic at why they would do this.

Great, the fourth poorest nation in Africa is about to invade the third poorest.

What is this, a race to see who can unseat Angola as greatest disaster area?

Well at least someone is trying to stop the Islamic militias and I suppose its better that it's a local country rather than some foreign country.

At least a national government has asked for help in defending his country from terrorists. Lebanon could learn from this example.

I'd rather they were stopped by someone who had the ability to put food on the table.
But isn't it better for locals to handle their own problems than some foreign country stepping into something they don't know or understand.

Attacking Somalia will only further destabilise the region. The Islamists already have most of the country under their control, and attempting to dig them out when they have fairly widespread popular support, from a nation that hates Ethiopia and would see an invasion as a war of occupation, would be bloody and ultimately futile.

Although the Islamic Courts are obviously a fundamentalist regime, they have managed to remove much of the anarchy and lawlessness in the areas under their control, and have opened schools and hospitals. As bad as they are, they are better governors than the warlords. The troubling aspect is their rigid adherence to Shari'a law, although it is unlikely that this would be any worse than the warlords who attacked UN aid workers delivering food during their drought and famine in the early 90s. Despite the claims of their ties to al-Qaeda, no real proof has been given of a link.

The best solution to this problem is not for Ethiopia to attack. Committed sanctions by the African Union, or better still the UN, could force the Islamic Courts and the government back into negotiations. A coalition government between the two would allow for Somalia to have an effective leadership (something it has lacked for over a decade) while allowing the secular politicians to act as a brake on the installment of Shari'a law, made easier by allying with the moderate elements in the Islamic Courts who rebelled out of being tired of the warlords rather than installing strict Shari'a law.

Unfortunately this probably won't happen, and we can look forward to another decade of atrocities in East Africa.

1. Those hospitals are probably for Muslims only.
2. Those schools probably only teach Koran.
3. I think you know the Ben Franklin quote "Those who sacrifice..."

I prefer warlords over fascists. And why does Somalia have to be one country. Why does every bit of land ahve to be controlled by a government that ahs a seat in the UN?

1. Those hospitals are probably for Muslims only.
2. Those schools probably only teach Koran.

1) yeah because Muslims doctors are arseholes who are bound by there religion to only treat fellow Muslims

2) I wouldn't go to far I think the schools will try to give students the ability to read and write if that can even be managed with there tribal budgets

remember Muslims aren’t some kind of evil order bent on world domination no matter how extreme there beliefs are I don’t think the people of Somalia mind the new laws anyway especially if it means that the warlords and endless killing will be over

Great. The rich countries let the problem become so bad that the poor nations have no choice to deal with it, immediately or on their own, or face severe consequences. I'm glad that we solved this situation in such a timely fashion... oh wait, we didn't really even do anything to correct it.

cripple fight !!!!Well at least someone is trying to stop the Islamic militias and I suppose its better that it's a local country rather than some foreign country.

1. Those hospitals are probably for Muslims only.
2. Those schools probably only teach Koran.
3. I think you know the Ben Franklin quote "Those who sacrifice..."

I prefer warlords over fascists. And why does Somalia have to be one country. Why does every bit of land ahve to be controlled by a government that ahs a seat in the UN?

1. To be honest I really don't know.
2. Once again, I'm not sure. Somalia is 99.3% Islamic, so its reasonable to assume so, but they may well have some remaining secular schools. They certainly had a lot of Catholic missionary schools before the civil war, so some of those may have survived despite the rampant destruction of any schools during the war. However, I really don't know. Even so, the pupils will be taught literacy and mathematics, which is far better than they could have hoped for in recent history.
3. Yes, I know the quote. I also think that having security but not liberty is better than having neither.


Note that I do not condone Islamic fundamentalism, especially when it turns into a government policy. I'm opposed to any non-democratic, non-secular form of government.

And by the way, even though only Somalia is recognised, it has pretty much split into three countries. Somaliland, although not officially recognised, has acted as a sovereign state since 1991. The rule is stable and they even had elections (judged to be free and fair by international observers) in which a leader from outside the main clan was elected without significant uproar. There is also Puntland, which, while it didn't declare independence from Somalia, has been trying to turn itself into a federal republic.

What the hell happened? Ethiopia seems to be going to war on a weekly basis.

So, how do I sign-up to join the Ethiopian army?

1. Those hospitals are probably for Muslims only.
2. Those schools probably only teach Koran.

Good to know you're nice and solid on your arguments there..

I prefer warlords over fascists.
That's not your call to make for Somalia. I think after more then a decade of 'warlord rule', the people get to decide for themselves "Enough is enough!" and who they want to rule them.

And why does Somalia have to be one country. Why does every bit of land ahve to be controlled by a government that ahs a seat in the UN?
International recognition, legitimacy- that sort of thing.

1) yeah because Muslims doctors are arseholes who are bound by there religion to only treat fellow Muslims

2) I wouldn't go to far I think the schools will try to give students the ability to read and write if that can even be managed with there tribal budgets

remember Muslims aren’t some kind of evil order bent on world domination no matter how extreme there beliefs are I don’t think the people of Somalia mind the new laws anyway especially if it means that the warlords and endless killing will be over
I'm not anti-muslim, I'm just pointing out what the militants are probably doing. MAny schools in Indonesia teach solely Koran.

1. To be honest I really don't know.
2. Once again, I'm not sure. Somalia is 99.3% Islamic, so its reasonable to assume so, but they may well have some remaining secular schools. They certainly had a lot of Catholic missionary schools before the civil war, so some of those may have survived despite the rampant destruction of any schools during the war. However, I really don't know. Even so, the pupils will be taught literacy and mathematics, which is far better than they could have hoped for in recent history.
3. Yes, I know the quote. I also think that having security but not liberty is better than having neither.


Note that I do not condone Islamic fundamentalism, especially when it turns into a government policy. I'm opposed to any non-democratic, non-secular form of government.

And by the way, even though only Somalia is recognised, it has pretty much split into three countries. Somaliland, although not officially recognised, has acted as a sovereign state since 1991. The rule is stable and they even had elections (judged to be free and fair by international observers) in which a leader from outside the main clan was elected without significant uproar. There is also Puntland, which, while it didn't declare independence from Somalia, has been trying to turn itself into a federal republic.
I'd rather live with this:
http://www.seattlephotographs.com/photos/kingdome_implosion/kingdome_rubble_17.jpg
than have this on every street corner:
http://www.soba.nl/pages/Security_Camera.jpg

"students" will be taught mainly Koran. Might I also add that people were banned from watching the World Cup and television for that matter and two were killed because of it.

I'd rather live with this:
http://www.seattlephotographs.com/photos/kingdome_implosion/kingdome_rubble_17.jpg
than have this on every street corner:
http://www.soba.nl/pages/Security_Camera.jpg

Stay away from Britain then. You'll hate it. What with the freedoms, security and all, musn't let those nasty cameras see you.


"students" will be taught mainly Koran. Might I also add that people were banned from watching the World Cup and television for that matter and two were killed because of it.
Thats not actually true. The people who perpetrated that shooting were caught and put on trial by the Union of Islamic Courts for implementing their own 'vigilante' justice.

The Somali gunmen who shot dead two people watching a World Cup match have been arrested and will face Islamic justice, an Islamist leader has said.
Hardliner Sheikh Dahir Aweys says the killing of a cinema owner and a young girl was an accident. The gunmen could face the death penalty.

The World Cup broadcast ban is not official UIC policy, but some courts do not allow matches to be shown.

Stay away from Britain then. You'll hate it. What with the freedoms, security and all, musn't let those nasty cameras see you.


Thats not actually true. The people who perpetrated that shooting were caught and put on trial by the Union of Islamic Courts for implementing their own 'vigilante' justice.
YEs I know that but if those Courts didn't start in the first place or we're stopped earlier.