NationStates Jolt Archive

why exactly do we (USians, and probably other english-speakers) call countries by names that are different from what those countries call themselves? seriously, check this out (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_native_names) - on a lot of them we aren't even close.

and for those of you from other countries, do you do something similar too? what do germans call sweden?

and for those of you from other countries, do you do something similar too?

Yup. The United States of America is called "Amerikas Förenta Stater," the UK is called "Förenade konungariket Storbritannien och Nordirland," France is called "Frankrike," Finland is called "Finland" (they call it Suomi themselves and the ironic thing is that everyone else just used the Swedish name, as they were part of Sweden for a long time), Greece (Ελληνική Δημοκρατία) is called "Grekland" and so on...

what do germans call sweden?

They call Sweden "Schweden," and we call Germany "Tyskland."

Not only English speaking countries do that. And, let's face it, in quite a few cases the native name would be unpronouncable for foreigners.

What English does do more than German is to change the names of foreign towns and cities. German usually sticks somewhat closer to the original in those cases.

What English does do more than German is to change the names of foreign towns and cities. German usually sticks somewhat closer to the original in those cases.

Yeah, I hate that! They call Göteborg "Gothenburg" and København "Copenhagen," whereas Germans are so much better and call them "Gotenburg" and "Kopenhagen" respectively.

Oh, wait...

we do it because we speak different languages

so countries have different names in different languages just as other words differ

if you check, i believe that all english speaking countries are referred to by the same names in all other english speaking countries. and for the most part all english speaking countries call other countries by the same name even if its not the name used in the country being referred to.

What English does do more than German is to change the names of foreign towns and cities. German usually sticks somewhat closer to the original in those cases.

there was a scene in a movie i saw recently where the character was near a sign saying how far it was to münchen, was talking (in german) about going to münchen, and the subtitles said munich. why bother?

Yeah, I hate that! They call Göteborg "Gothenburg" and København "Copenhagen," whereas Germans are so much better and call them "Gotenburg" and "Kopenhagen" respectively.

Oh, wait...

We like the idea of Sweden/Sverige naming their second city after Germany's first poet. They should just spell it correctly: Goetheburg. :p

(Yeah, I know, it's named after the Goths.)

The Poles have more reason to complain. We name none of their cities correctly. No offense, but our Germanic tongues just can't pronounce them.

we do it because we speak different languages

so countries have different names in different languages just as other words differ

my personal name would not be different if i went to a different country - i would still be 'matt'. proper names are different than other words.

of course, if we merely translated the meaning of the words in a name, that wouldn't be so bad. but we often just make shit up. or in weird cases use a translation from an entirely different language (montenegro, for example). it seems strange to me.

Yeah, I hate that! They call Göteborg "Gothenburg" and København "Copenhagen," whereas Germans are so much better and call them "Gotenburg" and "Kopenhagen" respectively.

Oh, wait...
:p

I knew that one would come back to haunt me - serves me right for not giving any examples.

I seriously couldn't think of any, it's more something I have repeatedly noticed and wondered about over the years, so I'm not really prepared to give up without a fight, even though I can't whip out some kind of definite proof that I'm right.

But fact is that with all English place names (no matter if cities in the US, GB, Australia, etc.) we may not have perfect pronunciation (that infamous German accent) but we leave the spelling as it is and at least *try* to pronounce it as it should be pronounced - and definitely don't pronounce them according to German pronunciation rules.
Conversely, German cities end up as Cologne (Köln) or Munich (München), and are invariably pronounced "in English".
France comes to mind, too - we don't really speak French either, but here, "Cannes" is actually pronounced like in French, not like "can".

my personal name would not be different if i went to a different country - i would still be 'matt'. proper names are different than other words.

of course, if we merely translated the meaning of the words in a name, that wouldn't be so bad. but we often just make shit up. or in weird cases use a translation from an entirely different language (montenegro, for example). it seems strange to me.
most of the weirdly different names are OLD. they come from the time before mass communication when few people could read and write anyway.

the newer the location name, the more likely it is that everyone uses the same word (subject to the vagaries of writing systems)

so while everyone might have a different name for copenhagen, no one has a different word for ottawa

The Poles have more reason to complain. We name none of their cities correctly. No offense, but our Germanic tongues just can't pronounce them. Yeah, my theory above is certainly not true for Polish - and likely lots of other languages, either, so maybe it just applies to English names and a handful others.Hmmm.

why exactly do we (USians, and probably other english-speakers) call countries by names that are different from what those countries call themselves? seriously, check this out (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_native_names) - on a lot of them we aren't even close.

and for those of you from other countries, do you do something similar too? what do germans call sweden?

Japan, Japon, and others for Nihon (sometimes Nippon, but Nihon is standard.)

Japanese names for:
USA- Beikoku (Rice Country), Amerika
UK - Igurisu
Deutschland - Doitsu
Česká republika - Cheko
République française - Furansu
Nederland - Oranda

TG just shut down a couple of threads for abuse of USAian, be cafeul, eh...

:p

I knew that one would come back to haunt me - serves me right for not giving any examples.

I seriously couldn't think of any, it's more something I have repeatedly noticed and wondered about over the years, so I'm not really prepared to give up without a fight, even though I can't whip out some kind of definite proof that I'm right.

I was just teasing. They do seem to do it a lot more than other people.

But fact is that with all English place names (no matter if cities in the US, GB, Australia, etc.) we may not have perfect pronunciation (that infamous German accent) but we leave the spelling as it is and at least *try* to pronounce it as it should be pronounced - and definitely don't pronounce them according to German pronunciation rules.
Conversely, German cities end up as Cologne (Köln) or Munich (München), and are invariably pronounced "in English".

Or Moscow (Moskva), Vienna (Wien), Belgrade (Beograd), Warsaw (Warszawa), Agana (Hagåtña) etc.

France comes to mind, too - we don't really speak French either, but here, "Cannes" is actually pronounced like in French, not like "can".

That's not really a fair comparison, as you pronounce most French words as the French do. "Cousin" comes to mind...

Yeah, I hate that! They call Göteborg "Gothenburg" and København "Copenhagen," whereas Germans are so much better and call them "Gotenburg" and "Kopenhagen" respectively.

Oh, wait...Actually, it's "Göteborg" in German, too...

so while everyone might have a different name for copenhagen, no one has a different word for ottawa

this is an injustice that must be corrected. from now on, 'ottawa' is going to be called 'steve'.

Actually, it's "Göteborg" in German, too...
>.<

All that sofa lounging must have fried my brain - I didn't even see that. Dang.

this is an injustice that must be corrected. from now on, 'ottawa' is going to be called 'steve'. :p

That's not really a fair comparison, as your pronounce most French words as the French do. "Cousin" comes to mind... So? That just makes us even more awesome. :p

Actually, it's "Göteborg" in German, too...

Wiki lies? (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6teborg)

I, ofcourse sometimes say Canadia and Canuckistan.

Wiki lies? (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6teborg)
Er... kinda?

That's really strange that they would put ""Gotenburg" in German" and then proceed to write the whole article using Göteborg, which is, as Laerod said, really what we call it.

I dunno, maybe it has historically been translated and nowadays we use the native name?

That's really strange that they would put ""Gotenburg" in German" and then proceed to write the whole article using Göteborg

Wiki often does that in English, too. Take the Swedish provinces as an example, and, say, Östergötland. If you go to the wiki, it will say that the English Latinised name is "Ostrogothia" but the English article will use "Östergötland" in the text. Same thing for Södermanland (Suddermannia), Bohuslän (Bahusia) and, well, all of them, really.

Nobody in Germany says "Gotenburg" any more. As far as I know (don't know any Swedish), we pronounce it wrong, with a G like in "gulf" instead of something more like Joeteborj ("j" sound as in "your", "yeast", "yeehaw").

Other old germanised city names are becoming obsolete, too.

"Laibach", Ljubljana
"Marburg", Maribor
"Pressburg", Bratislava

But still Pilsen and Prag...no logics to it.

Strangely enough no British city name has ever been germanised.
Time to change that. :D

"Gross Jahrmund", Great Yarmouth
"Birnenheim", Birmingham
"Schelmsfurt", Chelmsford

...could go on forever.

Wiki lies? (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6teborg)Note how "Gotenburg" is referred to as "Göteborg" throughout the entire article. You'd be hardpressed to find many Germans that would refer to Göteborg as Gotenburg...

I, ofcourse sometimes say Canadia and Canuckistan.

we used to call it benadia, after ben - the king of benadia, who drove around in his royal dog sleigh and lived in an igloo.

Note how "Gotenburg" is referred to as "Göteborg" throughout the entire article. You'd be hardpressed to find many Germans that would refer to Göteborg as Gotenburg...

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11399121&postcount=20

So, that that use "Göteborg" in the rest of the article doesn't really explain it.

why exactly do we (USians, and probably other english-speakers) call countries by names that are different from what those countries call themselves?
'Cause it's easier to pronounce, say, 'China' than 'Zhongguo' (especially as Europeans never pronounce tonal languages (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonal_language) correctly).

we used to call it benadia, after ben - the king of benadia, who drove around in his royal dog sleigh and lived in an igloo.Here I was thinking that they just rode polar bears everywhere.

"Laibach", Ljubljana

I'd like "Laibach" more as "Ljubljana" is so damned hard to pronounce. The "lj" is not an "ly" sound, but like a melding of "l" and "j" to an "lj" sound, similar to how "ñ" is a melding of "n" and "j" to be "nj," as if you're pronouncing both letters at the same time.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11399121&postcount=20

So, that that use "Göteborg" in the rest of the article doesn't really explain it.Well, let me ask you this: Does Göteborg Info lie (http://www.goeteborg-info.de/)?

Holland = The Netherparts

Well, let me ask you this: Does Göteborg Info lie (http://www.goeteborg-info.de/)?

Was I questioning that you used Göteborg? No. I was just saying that the use of "Göteborg" in the wiki doesn't explain much.

Does "Gotenburg Unterkunft" (http://www.gotenburg-unterkunft.inn26.de/) lie?

It seems that there is a double name, perhaps differing in age.

Sillies ... as if there are any countries outside the United States(tm) .... please!

Holland = The Netherparts

Actually, Holland is a region in The Netherlands, making "Holland" a misnomer for the country.

Was I questioning that you used Göteborg? No. I was just saying that the use of "Göteborg" in the wiki doesn't explain much.

Does "Gotenburg Unterkunft" (http://www.gotenburg-unterkunft.inn26.de/) lie?

It seems that there is a double name, perhaps differing in age.I've seen it referred to as Göteborg on German maps. Gotenburg is out of style.;)

I've seen it referred to as Göteborg on German maps. Gotenburg is out of style.;)

Yeah, it's sooooo Old Skool.

I've seen it referred to as Göteborg on German maps. Gotenburg is out of style.;)

Nevertheless, my teasing is accurate! Inusité, but accurate! :p

Sillies ... as if there are any countries outside the United States(tm) .... please!
I heard a rumor, that's why I'm here.

Does "Gotenburg Unterkunft" (http://www.gotenburg-unterkunft.inn26.de/) lie? Er... kinda? :p
That's an English website.
It's a German domain, but you can tell from the German that it has obviously simply been translated from the English mother site.

Hasn't the term "USian" been banned?

Japanese names for:
UK - Igurisu

so does that mean anything, or is it just a rendition of 'england'?

TG just shut down a couple of threads for abuse of USAian, be cafeul, eh...
bah, i'm like a god - such things concern me not

Hasn't the term "USian" been banned?

Discussions of it have - the term itself, no.

I'm more annoyed that Ivory Coast and East Timor are called Cote d'Ivoire and Timor-Leste on most maps. Yet, Russia is not called Rossiya, Germany is not called Deutschland. Why the favoritism? Personally I use both native and English, depending on who I'm talking to.

I'm more annoyed that Ivory Coast and East Timor are called Cote d'Ivoire and Timor-Leste on most maps. Yet, Russia is not called Rossiya, Germany is not called Deutschland. Why the favoritism? Personally I use both native and English, depending on who I'm talking to.

iirc, cote d'ivoire made a big fuss about it a few decades back. and timor leste is rather new, so they didn't have to overcome a whole bunch of stubborn old people.