NationStates Jolt Archive

IN 1846 a war began between Mexico and the United States when 2,000 members of the Mexican army entered American territory. It was considered to be an invasion. This year, 3 million illegal immigrants will enter The United States.Enough to fill 22,000 Boeing 737-700 airliners, for 60 flights every day for a year. Estimates say that 80% of them are Mexicans and 20% are OTM's. Many say that this is ok because they are peaceful and are taking jobs that nobody else wants.

In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide (which total 1,200 to 1,500) target illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are for illegal aliens.

A confidential California Department of Justice study reported in 1995 that 60 percent of the 20,000-strong 18th Street Gang in southern California is illegal; police officers say the proportion is actually much greater.

If Mexicans murder the same number of people as they do in Mexico per capita then we have had at least 1,806 murders by illegal Mexicans in the United States every year.

THEY TAKE JOBS THAT NOBODY ELSE WANTS? WE CANNOT CREATE 3 MILLION JOBS PER YEAR! YET SOMEHOW 3 MILLION ILLEGALS TAKE JOBS THAT NOBODY ELSE WANTS. I don't get it.

Looks like the Democrats and the Republicans are playing to the fastest growing and largest minority group in the country instead of looking out for our economic and secure well being. They should be ashamed.

IN 1846 a war began between Mexico and the United States when 2,000 members of the Mexican army entered American territory. It was considered to be an invasion. This year, 3 million illegal immigrants will enter The United States.Enough to fill 22,000 Boeing 737-700 airliners, for 60 flights every day for a year. Estimates say that 80% of them are Mexicans and 20% are OTM's. Many say that this is ok because they are peaceful and are taking jobs that nobody else wants.

In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide (which total 1,200 to 1,500) target illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are for illegal aliens.

A confidential California Department of Justice study reported in 1995 that 60 percent of the 20,000-strong 18th Street Gang in southern California is illegal; police officers say the proportion is actually much greater.

If Mexicans murder the same number of people as they do in Mexico per capita then we have had at least 1,806 murders by illegal Mexicans in the United States every year.

THEY TAKE JOBS THAT NOBODY ELSE WANTS? WE CANNOT CREATE 3 MILLION JOBS PER YEAR! YET SOMEHOW 3 MILLION ILLEGALS TAKE JOBS THAT NOBODY ELSE WANTS. I don't get it.

Looks like the Democrats and the Republicans are playing to the fastest growing and largest minority group in the country instead of looking out for our economic and secure well being. They should be ashamed.



YES! Its all about cheap labour and Votes. All those people in DC care about is getting votes and not serving the people.

YES! Its all about cheap labour and Votes. All those people in DC care about is getting votes and not serving the people.

It really is shameful. If I was the President I would support the building of a wall with electrified razor wire running across the top. That would save us a heap of cash.

It really is shameful. If I was the President I would support the building of a wall with electrified razor wire running across the top. That would save us a heap of cash.

It would save us a heap of cash to build a 1,951 mile long wall and power it?

Immegrants don't take jobs, period. Since earned money is speant or invested, demand for labor always rises when labor supply rises.

It would save us a heap of cash to build a 1,951 mile long wall and power it?

Representative Steve King of Iowa has estimated that the cost would be about $2 Billion to construct the wall and another $1 Billion to maintain it per year. More than $10 billion is spent every year on border security currently. The feds also estimate that another $10 billion is spent every year on benefits for illegals. We could have that electified fence border to border for 18 years at the current cost for one year of border control and illegal immigrant benefits.

Immegrants don't take jobs, period. Since earned money is speant or invested, demand for labor always rises when labor supply rises.

Illegals take crappy jobs that pay substandard wages, which entitles them to huge amounts of welfare from the feds ( $10,000,000,000 per year) This money comes from taxpayers who make real livings and follow the law. It is unjust. Almost 15 million Americans are looking for jobs and the illegals continue to pour in. I am disgusted.

I'm not even touching this one.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Noone on the Mayflower had a visa

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Noone on the Mayflower had a visa

Nobody on the Mayflower needed a Visa. There was no law requiring them to have one. Nice try.

my friend told me I should go to one of those illegal rallies they were doing in big cities and I couldn't even beleive it. A bunch of peopel saying in spanish that they should be treated like American citizens! If you can't learn english, get the fuck out imo

my friend told me I should go to one of those illegal rallies they were doing in big cities and I couldn't even beleive it. A bunch of peopel saying in spanish that they should be treated like American citizens! If you can't learn english, get the fuck out imo

I would print signs on my electrified fence that say just that.

I would print signs on my electrified fence that say just that.

Would you print them in English or Spanish?

Illegals take crappy jobs that pay substandard wages, which entitles them to huge amounts of welfare from the feds ( $10,000,000,000 per year) This money comes from taxpayers who make real livings and follow the law. It is unjust. Almost 15 million Americans are looking for jobs and the illegals continue to pour in. I am disgusted.
In actuallity, most illegal immegrants contribute to the welfare system without the ability to take from it. In order to have a job, these illegal immegrants must use a fake SSN. Their taxes are then taken directly from their paychecks. If they try to use government welfare programs, a simple background check shows that their SSN is fake and they are denied access to those programs.

Would you print them in English or Spanish?

Spanish.

Representative Steve King of Iowa has estimated that the cost would be about $2 Billion to construct the wall and another $1 Billion to maintain it per year. More than $10 billion is spent every year on border security currently. The feds also estimate that another $10 billion is spent every year on benefits for illegals. We could have that electified fence border to border for 18 years at the current cost for one year of border control and illegal immigrant benefits.

This isn't China and Mexicans aren't the Mongols. We would still have to spend just about as much money to staff and patrol the wall. A big brick wall with wire on the top isn't going to stop people deseperate to get into our country.

In actuallity, most illegal immegrants contribute to the welfare system without the ability to take from it. In order to have a job, these illegal immegrants must use a fake SSN. Their taxes are then taken directly from their paychecks. If they try to use government welfare programs, a simple background check shows that their SSN is fake and they are denied access to those programs.

Well that is just not so. The figure that I have takes the amount that they pay in into account. The $10,000,000 is the amount of welfare that is more than what they contribute. Many do not contribute because

a) social security is not the main form of taxation
B) the majority of illegals work off the books and not for "checks", Heh, wonder what bank they cash those checks in.

Illegals take crappy jobs that pay substandard wages, which entitles them to huge amounts of welfare from the feds ( $10,000,000,000 per year) This money comes from taxpayers who make real livings and follow the law. It is unjust. Almost 15 million Americans are looking for jobs and the illegals continue to pour in. I am disgusted.

Untrue. By virtue of being illegal aliens, they are not generally able to get welfare benefits. As long as the American employer is not violating the law by willingly employing illegal aliens and paying them without tax withholdings, then they must use a fake SSN to get paid. Taxes come out of the check automatically, but if they were ever to attempt to receive welfare benefits, it would be discovered that they were using a fake SSN and they would likely be deported. Your rage is mistakenly directed. You mean to be upset at the people who legally come to this nation and then use loopholes to abuse the welfare system.

This isn't China and Mexicans aren't the Mongols. We would still have to spend just about as much money to staff and patrol the wall. A big brick wall with wire on the top isn't going to stop people deseperate to get into our country.

Yes it is. And the wall is made of Concrete not bricks. Bricks take too much time and are expensive. believe me, a 15 foot high concrete slab with electrified razor wire on the top that stretches from border to border and is patrolled by Jet fighters will stop any desperate person from getting into America.

Well that is just not so. The figure that I have takes the amount that they pay in into account. The $10,000,000 is the amount of welfare that is more than what they contribute. Many do not contribute because

a) social security is not the main form of taxation
B) the majority of illegals work off the books and not for "checks", Heh, wonder what bank they cash those checks in.



You forgot to mention even if they were given legal status they would still take more than they put in. LA spends half a billion a year on this issue.

Untrue. By virtue of being illegal aliens, they are not generally able to get welfare benefits. As long as the American employer is not violating the law by willingly employing illegal aliens and paying them without tax withholdings, then they must use a fake SSN to get paid. Taxes come out of the check automatically, but if they were ever to attempt to receive welfare benefits, it would be discovered that they were using a fake SSN and they would likely be deported. Your rage is mistakenly directed. You mean to be upset at the people who legally come to this nation and then use loopholes to abuse the welfare system.


I already explained why you are wrong in a previous post.

Yes it is. And the wall is made of Concrete not bricks. Bricks take too much time and are expensive. believe me, a 15 foot high concrete slab with electrified razor wire on the top that stretches from border to border and is patrolled by Jet fighters will stop any desperate person from getting into America.



50K troops will stop it to.

You forgot to mention even if they were given legal status they would still take more than they put in. LA spends half a billion a year on this issue.

True, I just don't want to give many legal status. I want them out.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Noone on the Mayflower had a visa


That was over 500 years ago and has NO value today. Update your reasons.

50K troops will stop it to.

yeah, but a wall would probably cost less in the long run and free up those troops for other purposes. besides, "electrified razor wire" just rolls off the tongue doesnt it?

True, I just don't want to give many legal status. I want them out.



Just want to mention I immigrated here, But I came here legally.

... That's not enough. However will they become the majority race so I can get the ACLU to do things for me?

I am sick of hearing a bunch of boo-hooing about Indians whenever this topic comes up.

Just want to mention I immigrated here, But I came here legally.

God Bless! You are the type of person that deserves to be here because you chose the ethical route. Welcome!!!

yeah, but a wall would probably cost less in the long run and free up those troops for other purposes. besides, "electrified razor wire" just rolls off the tongue doesnt it?



I have a thing against making america look like a large prison, 50k troops and a moderate fence is fine by me.

:p ... That's not enough. However will they become the majority race so I can get the ACLU to do things for me?

Maybe we can can $10 billion a year in reparations?

God Bless! You are the type of person that deserves to be here because you chose the ethical route. Welcome!!!



Um, Thanks. But I plan on leaving.

:p

Maybe we can can $10 billion a year in reparations?
Reperations are wrong, all I want is an apology. :p

I have a thing against making america look like a large prison, 50k troops and a moderate fence is fine by me.

Ah, but in a prison people are trying to get out! Nobody is running to Mexico over the border illegaly except rapists and drug runners. No, my wall would not be like a prision...think more like....a fort. Fort America.

Yes it is. And the wall is made of Concrete not bricks. Bricks take too much time and are expensive. believe me, a 15 foot high concrete slab with electrified razor wire on the top that stretches from border to border and is patrolled by Jet fighters will stop any desperate person from getting into America.

Alright, now we've got the wall patrolled by fighter aircraft. Fighter aircraft which cost in excess of $60 million apiece and $5 million a year to maintain and operate. With a general maximum range of 600 miles. Assuming they operate in pairs, that's twenty or thirty fighter aircraft you just bought.

Um, Thanks. But I plan on leaving.

Hope you enjoyed your stay.

Reperations are wrong, all I want is an apology. :p

HAHA. I LIKE YOUR THINKIN.:D

Ah, but in a prison people are trying to get out! Nobody is running to Mexico over the border illegaly except rapists and drug runners. No, my wall would not be like a prision...think more like....a fort. Fort America.
Or the Iron curtain, we can call it the freedom curtain.

Reperations are wrong, all I want is an apology. :p


Are you really a "Native American"?

Hope you enjoyed your stay.


I hated it, thats why I am leaving. :D

I already explained why you are wrong in a previous post.

No you didn't. You merely think you did. Illegal immigrants are not the ones who are abusing the welfare system on average. They are the ones coming to this country to take menial labor positions that are not profitable to fill unless able to pay far below the minimum wage. Legal immigrants are the ones who you ought to be angry with.

Are you really a "Native American"?
Technically I'm 1/16th, but my anscestor left before the trail of tears so I don't get any of the benefits.

Alright, now we've got the wall patrolled by fighter aircraft. Fighter aircraft which cost in excess of $60 million apiece and $5 million a year to maintain and operate. With a general maximum range of 600 miles. Assuming they operate in pairs, that's twenty or thirty fighter aircraft you just bought.

The Defense department budget is $500,000,000,000 per year. $1.95 billion buys and operates those aircraft. That is about 36 hours worth of D.O.D. Budget. Chump change.

Or the Iron curtain, we can call it the freedom curtain.

Electric currants going through a curtain sounds very dangerous.

The Defense department budget is $500,000,000,000 per year. $1.95 billion buys and operates those aircraft. That is about 36 hours worth of D.O.D. Budget. Chump change.

The Defense Department spends their budget on defense spending. Not border patrol spending. The money your plan "saves" is buying those aircraft.

Electric currants going through a curtain sounds very dangerous.
Be a risk taker whynot?

No you didn't. You merely think you did. Illegal immigrants are not the ones who are abusing the welfare system on average. They are the ones coming to this country to take menial labor positions that are not profitable to fill unless able to pay far below the minimum wage. Legal immigrants are the ones who you ought to be angry with.

Illegals cost the system $10 billion more than they put in every year. They have no right to do that because they have no right to be here.

Legal immigrants have a right to benefit from the system.

50K troops will stop it to.

I know, we claim that the Illegal Gangs are terrorists, we quote the crime rate from illegals, then we bomb north Mexico. Hard to get over the border when it's raining artillery shells and missiles at the line. That or the electric fence. *Zap*

The Defense Department spends their budget on defense spending. Not border patrol spending. The money your plan "saves" is buying those aircraft.

Not when the DOD takes over border control.

Technically I'm 1/16th, but my anscestor left before the trail of tears so I don't get any of the benefits.


Your about 94% non-"native"....Not enough to be acknowledged by the government.

If we'd stop playing world police we could afford to have a better immigration system. If it doesn't happen near North America or our allies, we have no reason to care.

I know, we claim that the Illegal Gangs are terrorists, we quote the crime rate from illegals, then we pull an Israel! Hard to get over the border when it's raining artillery shells and missiles at the safehouses.

Well, I just want to see American law enforced. I don't want to murder people. I want to give them an incentive ( a big one) to stay away from the border if they have no visa.

I know, we claim that the Illegal Gangs are terrorists, we quote the crime rate from illegals, then we bomb north Mexico. Hard to get over the border when it's raining artillery shells and missiles at the line. That or the electric fence. *Zap*


Who is talking about Bombing Mexico? besides you?

Your about 94% non-"native"....Not enough to be acknowledged by the government.
Hence the sarcastic tone of my earlier posts. :)

Illegals cost the system $10 billion more than they put in every year. They have no right to do that because they have no right to be here.

Legal immigrants have a right to benefit from the system.

I'd love to see a economic study on the adverse effect of illegal immigrants on our nation's economy.

Hence the sarcastic tone of my earlier posts. :)


:D


I actually wouldn't mind having some other race in my bloodline, but I don't.:(

If we'd stop playing world police we could afford to have a better immigration system. If it doesn't happen near North America or our allies, we have no reason to care.

Oh come on, we have a $2,400,000,000,000 a year budget and our total that we spend overseas is less than a quarter of it. 1/100 of the budget would solve the immigration problem forever. Crying poorhouse is not a valid excuse.

I'd love to see a economic study on the adverse effect of illegal immigrants on our nation's economy.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A33783-2004Aug25.html

:sniper:

Just for fun, OP, got any backing for those numbers you tossed around so readily?

Funny thing is, I seem to recall snopes having something like this that they showed was questionable at best.

Please link your sources.

Just for fun, OP, got any backing for those numbers you tossed around so readily?

Funny thing is, I seem to recall snopes having something like this that they showed was questionable at best.

Please link your sources.


I believe he just did.

Oh come on, we have a $2,400,000,000,000 a year budget and our total that we spend overseas is less than a quarter of it. 1/100 of the budget would solve the immigration problem forever. Crying poorhouse is not a valid excuse.
I'm not crying poor house, I'm saying we should be conserving our money. Make it easier for them to get in legally. Also, force companies to pay them the same amount, then there will be no incentive to hire them and thusly less inscentive to cross the border.:)

Just for fun, OP, got any backing for those numbers you tossed around so readily?

Funny thing is, I seem to recall snopes having something like this that they showed was questionable at best.

Please link your sources.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_War
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immigration
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A55202-2005Mar21.html
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=40417
http://www.city-journal.org/html/14_1_the_illegal_alien.html
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/01/20020125.html
http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=10663
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A33783-2004Aug25.html

I believe he just did.
Not for his op, he did not. He also apprently didn't read his own story as it proceeds to point out some issues with the numbers drawn.

Who is talking about Bombing Mexico? besides you? It was sarcasm of course.

I'm not crying poor house, I'm saying we should be conserving our money. Make it easier for them to get in legally. Also, force companies to pay them the same amount, then there will be no incentive to hire them and thusly less inscentive to cross the border.:)

Only 17% of Americans believe that we should make legal entry easier. I don't think some sort of tax increase is the answer either. We need to stop the problem before it gets worse. I agree strongly about conserving money. Right on.

Not for his op, he did not. He also apprently didn't read his own story as it proceeds to point out some issues with the numbers drawn.

:rolleyes:

we should just annex mexico, we got more mexicans than they do anyways :)

I often get the feeling on these forums that when people don't like the facts they deny all points of reference. The sources are bad! The study is wrong! The poll is not accurate! Linear time is not real! How about acknowledging the problem and confronting the issue.

I often get the feeling on these forums that when people don't like the facts they deny all points of reference. The sources are bad! The study is wrong! The poll is not accurate! Linear time is not real! How about acknowledging the problem and confronting the issue.


Sometimes you will just get flamed and or get your grammer corrected. Just stay calm and don't fly off the handle.

Sometimes you will just get flamed and or get your grammer corrected. Just stay calm and don't fly off the handle.


Well said. Very well said. :D :)

Well said. Very well said. :D :)


Never had anybody say that here to me before...feels weird...

I am a rarity here, as are you.

Sometimes you will just get flamed and or get your grammer corrected.
I know, I'm a bastard, feel free to hit me.

I am a rarity here, as are you.



I am a rarity everywhere.:D

I am a rarity everywhere.:D
As are all intelligent people.

I know, I'm a bastard, feel free to hit me.


Meh. Just a tiny error, everybody makes them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_War No information about number quoted.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immigrationNo information about number quoted.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A55202-2005Mar21.html No information about number quoted.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=40417 No information about number quoted.
http://www.city-journal.org/html/14_1_the_illegal_alien.html Start of information, but source is an opinion piece that doesn't bother to source IT'S numbers. Great. :rolleyes:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/01/20020125.html No information about number quoted.
http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=10663 Opinion piece that notes he's making up the numbers based upon murder rates in home countries. Terrific. :rolleyes:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A33783-2004Aug25.html Finally some actual numbers, but as noted, said numbers are also suspect and pointed out as such within the article.

Haha. See?

Does anyone else find it strange that about half of the people debating this are either in, or moving to Japan?:confused:

I often get the feeling on these forums that when people don't like the facts they deny all points of reference. The sources are bad! The study is wrong! The poll is not accurate! Linear time is not real! How about acknowledging the problem and confronting the issue.
It's called looking at the sources and checking your facts sir. I know you HATE facts, but thems the breaks.

Your study says that there is a 10 Billion def, I noted your story challenges those numbers, a point you glossed over in your useage.

So here's one back, and you can check this and tell me if you like these facts, or not.

According to the most controversial study of those discussed here, the benefits and costs of immigration to the United States in 1992 add up to a total net cost to all levels of government of $42.5 billion. This study, by Donald Huddle, was sponsored by the Carrying Capacity Network, a nonprofit group that advocates major reductions in immigration to the United States. "The Costs of Immigration" (Huddle 1993) uses estimation procedures that include a variety of errors. When these errors are corrected, the post-1970 immigrants in Huddle's study actually show a surplus of revenues over social service costs of at least $25 billion
http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/taxes.asp

Does anyone else find it strange that about half of the people debating this are either in, or moving to Japan?:confused:
'Tis one of those strange board things. You get used to them. :D

off to bed, its like 4 am here, I am sure you can more than handle "NEVRUN".

Haha. See?
I wanted to know where you were pulling your numbers from. Your ass does not sund like a source I can place my trust in. You quoted some interesting sources, but the ones you pulled numbers from either admited to making them up or didn't bother to tell us where they got their numbers.

Since I have never heard of City Journal and it, itself, calls itself a think tank, I am a little inclined to not just trust that as I would, say, Fox News or the NYT.

IN 1846 a war began between Mexico and the United States when 2,000 members of the Mexican army entered American territory. It was considered to be an invasion. This year, 3 million illegal immigrants will enter The United States.Enough to fill 22,000 Boeing 737-700 airliners, for 60 flights every day for a year. Estimates say that 80% of them are Mexicans and 20% are OTM's. Many say that this is ok because they are peaceful and are taking jobs that nobody else wants.

In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide (which total 1,200 to 1,500) target illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are for illegal aliens.

A confidential California Department of Justice study reported in 1995 that 60 percent of the 20,000-strong 18th Street Gang in southern California is illegal; police officers say the proportion is actually much greater.

If Mexicans murder the same number of people as they do in Mexico per capita then we have had at least 1,806 murders by illegal Mexicans in the United States every year.

THEY TAKE JOBS THAT NOBODY ELSE WANTS? WE CANNOT CREATE 3 MILLION JOBS PER YEAR! YET SOMEHOW 3 MILLION ILLEGALS TAKE JOBS THAT NOBODY ELSE WANTS. I don't get it.

Looks like the Democrats and the Republicans are playing to the fastest growing and largest minority group in the country instead of looking out for our economic and secure well being. They should be ashamed.
As Ralph Wiggum would say, "He's still funny. But not ha-ha funny."

Even the most paranoid Congressmen only claim that there are around 13 million illegal immigrants in this country. Are the purported 3 million actually adding to that? Has it exploded recently? Unless you have some inside information that tells you that the immigration rate will absolutely skyrocket this year, then you're wrong. And since you obviously have no worthwhile data (how about some from Homeland Security, if nothing else? I'm sure they have estimates that are at least within the range of what might be called credible), YOU ARE WRONG.