NationStates Jolt Archive


World Trade Center....The Movie...

US Paratroops
19-07-2006, 04:13
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0469641/trailers-screenplay-E27504-10-2



I want to know what people think about making a movie about that fateful day. Is it too soon? To sensitive a topic? Will it cause a public outcry?

Personally, I think that it is still a bit soon, when I watched the trailer it jerked a few tears. On the other hand, it is a story that must be told. Many heros were born on the day, and many heros died, but not in vein.





PS, leave politics out of this, no bullshit conspiracy theories etc...(oh wait! this is NS General, what else would I except...)

Seriously though, stick to topic.
DesignatedMarksman
19-07-2006, 04:37
Hopefully it will rekindle the flame that has been doused by 5 years of BS politicians and sympathisers.
Slaughterhouse five
19-07-2006, 04:41
from the previews it looks like it concentrates more on what happened to the rescue workers that day rather then who did it and why they did it. i think it has a chance of being a good movie. it does have nicholas cage in it.
Gleann Abhann
19-07-2006, 04:42
I think it is coming out too soon. Sure, they have already released one movie about the events on September 11th (United 93), but this one might be just too soon because it's the one event that impacted people the most....


Coming out too soon.
Trostia
19-07-2006, 04:44
Hopefully it will rekindle the flame that has been doused by 5 years of BS politicians and sympathisers.

which flame is that? The flame of "let's nuke all the ragheads?"
IDF
19-07-2006, 04:54
The IMDB boards for that movie are full of idiots who were duped by the bullshit in "Loose Change."

The idiot claims a B-52 struck the Empire State Building in 1943. What an idiot. Does he realize that they didn't even have jets in the US at the time? (I know a B-25 Mitchell hit the building, but those were tiny prop driven planes that were small enough to fly off of a WWII aircraft carrier)
Baked squirrels
19-07-2006, 04:56
they should release it on the 20th Anniversary or something, not now
IDF
19-07-2006, 04:58
they should release it on the 20th Anniversary or something, not now
They can release the movie if they want, but I predict a flop. I'm not against the idea of a movie. Box office goers will decide when it is the right time.
Corneliu
19-07-2006, 05:01
The idiot claims a B-52 struck the Empire State Building in 1943. What an idiot. Does he realize that they didn't even have jets in the US at the time? (I know a B-25 Mitchell hit the building, but those were tiny prop driven planes that were small enough to fly off of a WWII aircraft carrier)

And just barely at that
US Paratroops
19-07-2006, 05:05
I only used IMBD because it was the first thing that showed up when I did a search. Dont look at the fools on the boards, just watch the trailer.
Peisandros
19-07-2006, 05:06
It was nearly 5 years ago. How on earth can that be "too soon"?
Dosuun
19-07-2006, 05:11
Just Hollywood trying to push buttons and look like they care.
US Paratroops
19-07-2006, 05:12
"It was nearly 5 yrs ago,, how could that possibly be too soon?"

Are you serious?? :upyours:

Okay, lets say that 3,000 people were suddenly killed in a terroritist attack on New Zealands soveirgn soil, and its most famous building collapsed. Would you not think that it my possibly be too soon for some people in your country? Especially the ones directly affected.



I remember where I was during the exact moment it happened. In my elementary schools library, 5th grade, Mr Van Dines class, making up a missed "current events" assignment. Our entire school watched the second plane hit on a TV inside the library.
Corneliu
19-07-2006, 05:18
"It was nearly 5 yrs ago,, how could that possibly be too soon?"

Are you serious?? :upyours:

Don't use that smiley again. It really does nothing but show your lack of intellect.

Okay, lets say that 3,000 people were suddenly killed in a terroritist attack on New Zealands soveirgn soil, and its most famous building collapsed. Would you not think that it my possibly be too soon for some people in your country? Especially the ones directly affected.

Ever hear of the Movie Wake Island? That was made during World War II! Guess what? The War was still going on.

As to your question, no I wouldn't think it was too soon for it has been half a decade.

I remember where I was during the exact moment it happened. In my elementary schools library, 5th grade, Mr Van Dines class, making up a missed "current events" assignment. Our entire school watched the second plane hit on a TV inside the library.

I was in a college history class when the attack occured.
DesignatedMarksman
19-07-2006, 05:22
which flame is that? The flame of "let's nuke all the ragheads?"

I was actually thinking more along the lines of just start hanging all of the Alqaeda members/leaders we have. That way we can make room for more.
Peisandros
19-07-2006, 05:23
"It was nearly 5 yrs ago,, how could that possibly be too soon?"

Are you serious?? :upyours:

Okay, lets say that 3,000 people were suddenly killed in a terroritist attack on New Zealands soveirgn soil, and its most famous building collapsed. Would you not think that it my possibly be too soon for some people in your country? Especially the ones directly affected.



I remember where I was during the exact moment it happened. In my elementary schools library, 5th grade, Mr Van Dines class, making up a missed "current events" assignment. Our entire school watched the second plane hit on a TV inside the library.
Of course I'm serious. It was 5 years ago. 1824 days ago. If that isn't long enough for anyone, then they are probably depressed and need professional help.

I would hardly call WTC the most famous American building. The Empire State building is much more well known around the world.

If there was a terrorist attack in NZ (lol), I wouldn't really expect a movie to be released about it. But if it was? Sure. No reason why not.
US Paratroops
19-07-2006, 05:30
Don't use that smiley again. It really does nothing but show your lack of intellect.

I will use whatever smilies I wish to use that portray my current emotional state.



Ever hear of the Movie Wake Island? That was made during World War II! Guess what? The War was still going on.

Guess What!!! This war is still going on also!!! Your point?

As to your question, no I wouldn't think it was too soon for it has been half a decade.

That is your opinion, and not mine.
Corneliu
19-07-2006, 05:32
I will use whatever smilies I wish to use that portray my current emotional state.

Well it just makes you look like a noob and then you won't be taken seriously.

Guess What!!! This war is still going on also!!! Your point?

Why make a movie when you actually lost the island?

That is your opinion, and not mine.

then you need mental help.
US Paratroops
19-07-2006, 05:34
Of course I'm serious. It was 5 years ago. 1824 days ago. If that isn't long enough for anyone, then they are probably depressed and need professional help.




If your son/daughter/wife/husband,uncle/aunt/friend....etc... life was cut terribly short just 5 yrs ago in a tragic attack would you be completely over it?
Corneliu
19-07-2006, 05:35
If your son/daughter/wife/husband,uncle/aunt/friend....etc... life was cut terribly short just 5 yrs ago in a tragic attack would you be completely over it?

Hate to break this to you but really you will never get completely over losing a loved one.
US Paratroops
19-07-2006, 05:35
then you need mental help.

So, I need mental help just because I do not share the same opinion as you?
Corneliu
19-07-2006, 05:36
So, I need mental help just because I do not share the same opinion as you?

Nope. If that was the case then 90% of the members here would need mental help.
US Paratroops
19-07-2006, 05:36
Hate to break this to you but really you will never get completely over losing a loved one.


Read more carefully!!!, I was responding to the post that said, "if they arent over it by now, then they need professional help."



"Nope. If that was the case then 90% of the members here would need mental help."

Then why did you say that I need mental help?
Corneliu
19-07-2006, 05:38
Read more carefully!!!, I was responding to the post that said, "if they arent over it by now, then they need professional help."

I can't answer for him but I can answer your question that losing a loved one is something that you never completely get over.
DesignatedMarksman
19-07-2006, 05:39
If your son/daughter/wife/husband,uncle/aunt/friend....etc... life was cut terribly short just 5 yrs ago in a tragic attack would you be completely over it?

So every one of us 306 million americans has lost someone in the WTC attacks?
Corneliu
19-07-2006, 05:39
Then why did you say that I need mental help?

Because it is apparent that you have not gotten over 9/11.
US Paratroops
19-07-2006, 05:39
I wasnt asking a question, that was what I was saying.
US Paratroops
19-07-2006, 05:40
So every one of us 306 million americans has lost someone in the WTC attacks?


When did I say that?? I was merely pointing out that for some Americans, it may be too soon.
Corneliu
19-07-2006, 05:41
I wasnt asking a question, that was what I was saying.

Your question about loved ones was most definitely a question.
Corneliu
19-07-2006, 05:42
When did I say that?? I was merely pointing out that for some Americans, it may be too soon.

Look...this debate has been raging for five years. When is it too soon to make movies. Come on. Its been five years. It is time to move on.
US Paratroops
19-07-2006, 05:43
I was asking Peisandros the question because he had said shouldnt they all be over it.

The question was directed at him, for the purpose of pointing out that there are still many ppl who are not over it.
Corneliu
19-07-2006, 05:46
I was asking Peisandros the question because he had said shouldnt they all be over it.

The question was directed at him, for the purpose of pointing out that there are still many ppl who are not over it.

You among them apparently.
Andaluciae
19-07-2006, 05:49
And just barely at that
I believe the B-25 was the smallest bomber in the USAAF at the time. It was the bomber that was used by Doolittle when he raided Tokyo.
Desperate Measures
19-07-2006, 05:51
I'm not ready to watch this. My girlfriend isn't ready either. Some people are ready. That is just how it is.
Andaluciae
19-07-2006, 05:59
Watch the trailer.

I gasped at several parts.

The film looks good from the trailer.
US Paratroops
19-07-2006, 06:01
You among them apparently.


Actually, im looking forward to seeing the movie, I am about as over the attacks as I could be, I personally think its is a tiny bit too soon, but that will still not stop my from seeing it.


And is there anything wrong with someone not being over the attacks?
OcceanDrive
19-07-2006, 06:04
Then why did you say that I need...help?lets put things in perspective..

Not only you are not ready for that Movie..
It is painfully obvius to me that you are not even ready to post this thread..

You post a thread.. asking for opinions.. then you inmediately jump to the throat of anyone who is ready for the movie.

You are not ready.

(BTW you dont need mental help.. but you do need to grow a skin)
OcceanDrive
19-07-2006, 06:11
And is there anything wrong with someone not being over the attacks?no there is absolutely nothing wrong with that..

and if someone is ready.. there is nothing wrong with that either.
Peisandros
19-07-2006, 06:16
If your son/daughter/wife/husband,uncle/aunt/friend....etc... life was cut terribly short just 5 yrs ago in a tragic attack would you be completely over it?
Uncle/aunt/friend are the only ones that apply to me..

Anyway, I would understand that 5 years had passed and I would have moved on.
Peisandros
19-07-2006, 06:18
Read more carefully!!!, I was responding to the post that said, "if they arent over it by now, then they need professional help."



"Nope. If that was the case then 90% of the members here would need mental help."

Then why did you say that I need mental help?
....

I said that if you're not over yet you're probably depressed and need professional help.

How dare you misquote me.
Keruvalia
19-07-2006, 06:21
Well I, for one, hope it has a surprise twist ending because the reality is boring derivative crap.

Maybe it'll be a light-hearted, romantic comedy.

Perhaps a nice "boy meets girl and falls in love" thing like they did to Pearl Harbor.
Anglachel and Anguirel
19-07-2006, 06:23
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0469641/trailers-screenplay-E27504-10-2



I want to know what people think about making a movie about that fateful day. Is it too soon? To sensitive a topic? Will it cause a public outcry?

Personally, I think that it is still a bit soon, when I watched the trailer it jerked a few tears. On the other hand, it is a story that must be told. Many heros were born on the day, and many heros died, but not in vein.
Personally, I think that if the producers had any guts they would have involved themselves in this desecration within a few months after 9/11. Not that I'm really touchy about those events, but I would certainly be offended if someone went and made a film about my death while missing the whole point of it.

9/11, if anything, could have served as a wake-up call. A reminder that what we are doing in the world is hated by many people. Instead, we saw it only as a reason to continue the same arrogance that we have displayed for centuries, thereby insuring more such disasters in the future.

Heroism is a great thing. But it always arises in such situations. What is really rare is someone who has foresight enough to actually try and prevent things like 9/11 from ever occurring.
Keruvalia
19-07-2006, 06:23
Incidently, I want every single poster in this thread, up to and beyond this post, who has ever complained about "PC Thuggery" to stop saying this movie shouldn't be released ... because you're being hypocritical.
New Foxxinnia
19-07-2006, 06:24
I think we should judge if it was too soon when it comes out. Naturally, if it is good it wasn't too soon, and if it sucks, it was.
IL Ruffino
19-07-2006, 11:39
Don't use that smiley again. It really does nothing but show your lack of intellect.
Something about you saying this makes me laugh.
I was in a college history class when the attack occured.
I think we were reading Black Beauty..

And we did see the second plane hit..

That was an awkward day.


As for the movie; I'll rent it. But I feel they're only trying to profit from the event.
The Don Quixote
19-07-2006, 11:54
Never too early for the creation of American myths (not 'myth' in the false sense, but in the narrative sense).
Dinaverg
19-07-2006, 12:01
I think we were reading Black Beauty..

And we did see the second plane hit..

That was an awkward day.



I was in school...They basically told me "A plane hit a biulding". I'm thinking, like "Uuhhh...Kay? So what?". I think that's the most I ever cared.
Duncton
19-07-2006, 12:12
So, it will probably a sweet story about hope and survival after something really bad has happened.
It will probably also do a sweet job as propaganda to bring back the memory of the attack to the American public and beyond in order to make them more comfortable with the continuing war against neutral countries at important geostrategic points or who have easily accessible oil, excuse me, I meant to say terror of course.
IL Ruffino
19-07-2006, 12:12
I was in school...They basically told me "A plane hit a biulding". I'm thinking, like "Uuhhh...Kay? So what?". I think that's the most I ever cared.
Yeah, same here.

But we were all curious, so we had the teacher turn on CNN, then all the classes we had that day were talking about it..

It was that way when they were in Iraq or some place bombing that huge concrete building..
Isiseye
19-07-2006, 12:38
Wasn't a film made already? Flight 93? There is no problem with making a film like that once its not hollywoodised......and good luck on that one.
L-rouge
19-07-2006, 12:51
I'm not going to watch the film. It's not because I'm "not ready", because I really don't give a jot, but it's because after watching that trailer, the film doesn't look that good.
Taldaan
19-07-2006, 12:52
While it will of course be too soon for some people, I still think it will do at least decently at the box office. From the trailer, the film looks incredibly bad: all quiet but heroic statements that no-one outside a Hollywood movie would ever say, dramatic, throbbing soundtracks, and slow-motion explosions. Stars and stripes-covered patriotism porn. Which is why the average American consumer will love it.
Anarchic Christians
19-07-2006, 13:43
Meh. There's a profit to be had. They turned a whole issue of Spiderman over to having him say a load of nationalistic wank about the Twin Towers and helping Captain America dig out survivors, I'm surprised Hollywood haven't got a trilogy on the way with the first film released two years ago.
San haiti
19-07-2006, 14:01
Incidently, I want every single poster in this thread, up to and beyond this post, who has ever complained about "PC Thuggery" to stop saying this movie shouldn't be released ... because you're being hypocritical.

Has anyone complained about "pc thuggery" yet? I dont see anything.
Mac World
19-07-2006, 14:19
Man it does look pretty good from what I saw of the trailer. I actually almost cried watching it. I'd probably bawl my eyes out in the theatre. I don't know if I could handle it. I have to say that this will be more powerful and cause more controversy than Flight 93.
The Mindset
19-07-2006, 14:27
Get over it. It was one small event. Focus on now.
Stephistan
19-07-2006, 14:28
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0469641/trailers-screenplay-E27504-10-2



I want to know what people think about making a movie about that fateful day. Is it too soon? To sensitive a topic? Will it cause a public outcry?

Personally, I think that it is still a bit soon, when I watched the trailer it jerked a few tears. On the other hand, it is a story that must be told. Many heros were born on the day, and many heros died, but not in vein.

I think that it's good that it's coming out this soon after the fact. My reasoning for this is, often we find historical events are not recorded by the people who were "there" or "alive" at the time of the event. Or, people wait so long to record an event that it becomes quite often convoluted in such a way that the truth sometimes gets lost in waiting.

If it's too soon for some, I say just don't go see it until a person is ready to see it. Or never see it if that is the desire.

History should always be accurate and recorded in a timely fashion.

That's my thoughts on it anyway.
Brickistan
19-07-2006, 14:36
Meeh, more emo-porn from Hollywood. That trailer was so filled with fake emotion, stereotyping, and we-won’t-even-bother-to-hide-it patriotism it nearly made me lose my lunch.

Tell me please, why must such a movie be made? If you (I’m mainly talking to Americans here) truly think that those people were heroes, then why not honour them by letting their actions on that day speak for them? Rather than letting Hollywood twist and turn their story so that money can be made from it…
Minnesotan Confederacy
19-07-2006, 14:40
Well I, for one, hope it has a surprise twist ending because the reality is boring derivative crap.

Maybe it'll be a light-hearted, romantic comedy.

Perhaps a nice "boy meets girl and falls in love" thing like they did to Pearl Harbor.

I made that prediction a few years ago. I mean, they made movies about both the Titanic sinking and Pearl Harbor that had bullshit love stories thrown in, so i figured, why not the same thing with 9/11?
The Mindset
19-07-2006, 14:42
Oh, almighty scrotum, I just watched the trailer. I think I just invented three new ways to vomit. This film will do NOTHING but prove to me that USAmericans and their misplaced patriotism should be shoved up a crusthole and never seen again.
Minnesotan Confederacy
19-07-2006, 14:45
That trailer was so filled with fake emotion, stereotyping, and we-won’t-even-bother-to-hide-it patriotism it nearly made me lose my lunch.

Sounds extremely strange, considering who directed the thing...
Andaluciae
19-07-2006, 14:57
I think that it's good that it's coming out this soon after the fact. My reasoning for this is, often we find historical events are not recorded by the people who were "there" or "alive" at the time of the event. Or, people wait so long to record an event that it becomes quite often convoluted in such a way that the truth sometimes gets lost in waiting.

If it's too soon for some, I say just don't go see it until a person is ready to see it. Or never see it if that is the desire.

History should always be accurate and recorded in a timely fashion.

That's my thoughts on it anyway.
I agree.
Corneliu
19-07-2006, 15:12
I believe the B-25 was the smallest bomber in the USAAF at the time. It was the bomber that was used by Doolittle when he raided Tokyo.

Did I say it didn't launch from the carrier? I know perfectly well that it was used in the Doolittle Raid in April 1942.
Corneliu
19-07-2006, 15:17
Get over it. It was one small event. Focus on now.

One small event? Yea right. :rolleyes:
Corneliu
19-07-2006, 15:18
I think that it's good that it's coming out this soon after the fact. My reasoning for this is, often we find historical events are not recorded by the people who were "there" or "alive" at the time of the event. Or, people wait so long to record an event that it becomes quite often convoluted in such a way that the truth sometimes gets lost in waiting.

If it's too soon for some, I say just don't go see it until a person is ready to see it. Or never see it if that is the desire.

History should always be accurate and recorded in a timely fashion.

That's my thoughts on it anyway.

I completely agree with Stephistan. :)
Corneliu
19-07-2006, 15:20
Oh, almighty scrotum, I just watched the trailer. I think I just invented three new ways to vomit. This film will do NOTHING but prove to me that USAmericans and their misplaced patriotism should be shoved up a crusthole and never seen again.

:rolleyes:
Andaluciae
19-07-2006, 15:20
Did I say it didn't launch from the carrier? I know perfectly well that it was used in the Doolittle Raid in April 1942.
No, I was just confirming your previous statement that it was a small plane, and providing context for any other people who might wander along and not have knowledge of the B-25.
Corneliu
19-07-2006, 15:21
No, I was just confirming your previous statement that it was a small plane.

My apologies.
Swilatia
19-07-2006, 15:29
personally i think this is a very bull concept for a movie, bsing it on a government lie. If there should be any movies on 11/9 it should be ones about what really happened on that day.






wait, there already is one. (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1519312457137943386) my bad.
Corneliu
19-07-2006, 15:35
personally i think this is a very bull concept for a movie, bsing it on a government lie. If there should be any movies on 11/9 it should be ones about what really happened on that day.






wait, there already is one. (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1519312457137943386) my bad.

Not that debunked video again!
Swilatia
19-07-2006, 15:37
Not that debunked video again!
um... al those debunking sites are crap and lies. They prolly did it all just cuz bush payed them.
Corneliu
19-07-2006, 15:39
um... al those debunking sites are crap and lies. They prolly did it all just cuz bush payed them.

We already know you don't care for facts nor do you care for the evidence against loose change so the only one fooling themselves is you and those who don't want to look at the evidence.
Kazus
19-07-2006, 15:41
Ever hear of the Movie Wake Island? That was made during World War II! Guess what? The War was still going on.

And noone is praising that movie. That movie is also not the topic at hand. But as long as you brought it up, that movie should not have been made at the time.
Swilatia
19-07-2006, 15:43
We already know you don't care for facts nor do you care for the evidence against loose change so the only one fooling themselves is you and those who don't want to look at the evidence.
you must be a bush supporter. if you think i am ignorant and don't care for facts, try taking a look in a mirror, and tell me what you see. if you would admit what you are your answer to this would be "a person who is ignorant and does not care for facts". because you seem to not care about the laws of physics and thermodynamics. do you think i would say anything about those sites if I did not take a look at them first?
Corneliu
19-07-2006, 15:44
And noone is praising that movie. That movie is also not the topic at hand. But as long as you brought it up, that movie should not have been made at the time.

Meh. It was actualy about the 1st battle of Wake Island in which the forces there sunk a Jap Destroyer and turned back their assault. Of course, it didn't save them the 2nd time around.
IL Ruffino
19-07-2006, 15:52
you must be a bush supporter. if you think i am ignorant and don't care for facts, try taking a look in a mirror, and tell me what you see. if you would admit what you are your answer to this would be "a person who is ignorant and does not care for facts". because you seem to not care about the laws of physics and thermodynamics. do you think i would say anything about those sites if I did not take a look at them first?
Sig'n this.
Corneliu
19-07-2006, 15:55
you must be a bush supporter. if you think i am ignorant and don't care for facts, try taking a look in a mirror, and tell me what you see. if you would admit what you are your answer to this would be "a person who is ignorant and does not care for facts". because you seem to not care about the laws of physics and thermodynamics. do you think i would say anything about those sites if I did not take a look at them first?

It is you apparently who does not believe in facts Swilatia. No matter how ou want to spin it, Loose Change is so full of holes and conspiracy theories that no one, minus those who love conspiracy theories, believes in this idiotic so called documentary.

You sir, have ignored all the evidence debunking it and that goes to show that you really do not care for facts at all.
Andaluciae
19-07-2006, 15:57
My apologies.
Gladly accepted.

It's irritating how hard it is to convey intent on these forums sometimes, isn't it? Blasted text doesn't always do the job.
Corneliu
19-07-2006, 15:59
Gladly accepted.

It's irritating how hard it is to convey intent on these forums sometimes, isn't it? Blasted text doesn't always do the job.

Now that is indeed true Andal. It is very hard to convey intent.
Swilatia
19-07-2006, 16:00
It is you apparently who does not believe in facts Swilatia. No matter how ou want to spin it, Loose Change is so full of holes and conspiracy theories that no one, minus those who love conspiracy theories, believes in this idiotic so called documentary.

You sir, have ignored all the evidence debunking it and that goes to show that you really do not care for facts at all.
so you are baisically saying it is full of holes because it denies the official story.

you sir, have to be a bush supporter, because the rest of us know beter then to make silly generalisations that everyone who does not accept the official story is dumb. you cannot say that it is wrong simply because it contains theories.
Andaluciae
19-07-2006, 16:00
personally i think this is a very bull concept for a movie, bsing it on a government lie. If there should be any movies on 11/9 it should be ones about what really happened on that day.

wait, there already is one. (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1519312457137943386) my bad.
I watched that movie, hell, it's not even worthy of the word movie, once. It's as holey as it gets. It invents information, it's sources are faulty, it's application of theory is a total failure, I once spent two hours on these forums going point for point debunking it, and I didn't even cover a quarter of the video.
Corneliu
19-07-2006, 16:02
so you are baisically saying it is full of holes because it denies the official story.

you sir, have to be a bush supporter, because the rest of us know beter then to make silly generalisations that everyone who does not accept the official story is dumb. you cannot say that it is wrong simply because it contains theories.

I can say that it is wrong for the evidence points in the opposite direction of what Loose Change states. And I am not the only one who knows that Loose Change is wrong on this.
Andaluciae
19-07-2006, 16:02
so you are baisically saying it is full of holes because it denies the official story.

you sir, have to be a bush supporter, because the rest of us know beter then to make silly generalisations that everyone who does not accept the official story is dumb. you cannot say that it is wrong simply because it contains theories.
Everyone who doesn't accept the official story may not be dumb, but they're wrong. The reason the official story is the official story is because the facts support it. Independent commissions of real authorities in their fields have actually confirmed what happened, instead of a bunch of novices and out of field experts postulating their own theories of what occured.
Swilatia
19-07-2006, 16:03
I can say that it is wrong for the evidence points in the opposite direction of what Loose Change states. And I am not the only one who knows that Loose Change is wrong on this.
exactly what evidence of what?
Andaluciae
19-07-2006, 16:05
exactly what evidence of what?
Besides the obvious...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11,_2001_attacks
Swilatia
19-07-2006, 16:07
Besides the obvious...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11,_2001_attacks
um... wikipedia simply states that because that is the opinion of the majority. its one of those topics which can aa\ctually havebiased articles.
Andaluciae
19-07-2006, 16:28
um... wikipedia simply states that because that is the opinion of the majority. its one of those topics which can aa\ctually havebiased articles.
Not just the opinion of the majority of the general public, but also a near unanimous agreement amongst the authorities in the relevant fields. I also fail to see any disputes listed with the article, as the disputes have been dismissed on the basis of their factual inconsistency.
Andaluciae
19-07-2006, 16:34
We're not talking about a matter of opinion here. That's where bias comes in. We're talking about fact, proven, confirmed fact. There is no bias in fact. There can be bias in the way you use fact, but fact itself carries no bias.
Andaluciae
19-07-2006, 16:41
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_conspiracy_theories

Describes many of the conspiracy theories, and promptly blasts them straight to hell.
The Mindset
19-07-2006, 16:56
One small event? Yea right. :rolleyes:
Yes. One small event.

WTC: ~3000 civillians dead.

The American response to it resulted in at least 3,800 Afghanistani civillian deaths (est. 2002, probably much higher now). In Iraq, the civillian death toll is at least 39,228.

I reiterate: September 11th was one small event. Get over it. Focus on now.
Swilatia
19-07-2006, 17:07
Yes. One small event.

WTC: ~3000 civillians dead.

The American response to it resulted in at least 3,800 Afghanistani civillian deaths (est. 2002, probably much higher now). In Iraq, the civillian death toll is at least 39,228.

I reiterate: September 11th was one small event. Get over it. Focus on now.
not to mention that the indian ocean tsunami which all you americans are ignoring now killed more ppl then 11/9.
Andaluciae
19-07-2006, 17:12
not to mention that the indian ocean tsunami which all you americans are ignoring now killed more ppl then 11/9.
The primary difference being that we all saw the attacks happen. We sat there as witnesses through a television screen. We watched three thousand people die in what was pretty much right before our eyes. We had near unlimited strong visual images readily available. It had a mental impact that an ex post facto informing such as with the tsunami, couldn't have.
The Mindset
19-07-2006, 17:14
The primary difference being that we all saw the attacks happen. We sat there as witnesses through a television screen. We watched three thousand people die in what was pretty much right before our eyes. We had near unlimited strong visual images readily available. It had a mental impact that an ex post facto informing such as with the tsunami, couldn't have.
So the tsunami victim's lives are worth less than the 11/9 victim's lives simply because you didn't see them die?
Andaluciae
19-07-2006, 17:17
So the tsunami victim's lives are worth less than the 11/9 victim's lives simply because you didn't see them die?
Most certainly not. I'm speaking of the psychological effect that was experienced, not of any normative values.
Swilatia
19-07-2006, 17:19
Most certainly not. I'm speaking of the psychological effect that was experienced, not of any normative values.
what about katrina?
Andaluciae
19-07-2006, 17:22
what about katrina?
Once again, I'm talking about seeing people die right in front of you on the television as the result of directed violence. It's an incredibly shocking experience, as any psychologist will tell you. Our culture has come to 'accept' the largescale destruction of natural disasters, but directed violence is another story entirely.
Taldaan
19-07-2006, 17:24
what about katrina?

Katrina was a natural disaster, 9/11 was man-made. Although Katrina had the bigger death toll, its far more shocking to actually be attacked by people than it is to get in the way of impersonal natural forces. Not to mention that the USA has relatively frequent earthquakes, hurricanes every year etc. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that 9/11 was the largest civilian death toll from a single attack in the USA.
[NS:]Lansce-IC
19-07-2006, 17:25
I think it's way too soon. I mean, look at WW2, aside from propaganda films, it was basically untouched for 30+ years. I had mixed feelings watching it. I don't think that we should put into fiction something that has had so much consequence in the past 5 years just yet. We risk becoming disillusioned about the whole thing, and by consequence lose the importance and sacrifice.
IL Ruffino
19-07-2006, 17:26
what about katrina?
Seeing a dead body floating in the middle of a trashed street as the cover of Time magazine could possibly hit the mind.

I have no place in this debate.. *shuts up*
Andaluciae
19-07-2006, 17:28
Lansce-IC']I think it's way too soon. I mean, look at WW2, aside from propaganda films, it was basically untouched for 30+ years. I had mixed feelings watching it. I don't think that we should put into fiction something that has had so much consequence in the past 5 years just yet. We risk becoming disillusioned about the whole thing, and by consequence lose the importance and sacrifice.
Well, Oli Stone is making his film from the accounts of the Port Authority Police Officers whom the film is based around, so, I don't know if it's to be considered a fictional film.
[NS:]Lansce-IC
19-07-2006, 17:32
Well, Oli Stone is making his film from the accounts of the Port Authority Police Officers whom the film is based around, so, I don't know if it's to be considered a fictional film.

It wouldn't matter if he took the accounts word for word. Putting it on the big screen, and using famous actors like Nicholas Cage automatically make people disbelieve.... They've seen so many explosions and death on the exact same screen before and they'll feel the same way that they had before. They'll say: "oh, they're just acting" and miss the real-ness of the whole thing.
Swilatia
19-07-2006, 17:41
Katrina was a natural disaster, 9/11 was man-made. Although Katrina had the bigger death toll, its far more shocking to actually be attacked by people than it is to get in the way of impersonal natural forces. Not to mention that the USA has relatively frequent earthquakes, hurricanes every year etc. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that 9/11 was the largest civilian death toll from a single attack in the USA.
well the iraq war was man-made.
Andaluciae
19-07-2006, 17:53
well the iraq war was man-made.
But it was expected and not so readily visible.
Corneliu
19-07-2006, 17:54
Lansce-IC']I think it's way too soon. I mean, look at WW2, aside from propaganda films, it was basically untouched for 30+ years. I had mixed feelings watching it. I don't think that we should put into fiction something that has had so much consequence in the past 5 years just yet. We risk becoming disillusioned about the whole thing, and by consequence lose the importance and sacrifice.

Tora Tora Tora
Midway
Sands of Iwo Jima
30 Seconds over Tokyo
Hiroshima

And other movies have been made about World War II. It has not gone untouched.
Corneliu
19-07-2006, 17:56
Other World War II films include:

Patton
The Longest Day
Sink the Bismark
Psychotic Mongooses
19-07-2006, 18:04
Lansce-IC']I think it's way too soon. I mean, look at WW2, aside from propaganda films, it was basically untouched for 30+ years. I had mixed feelings watching it. I don't think that we should put into fiction something that has had so much consequence in the past 5 years just yet. We risk becoming disillusioned about the whole thing, and by consequence lose the importance and sacrifice.
World War II: 50 million dead.

September 11th: Approx. 3,000 dead.

Perspective.