NationStates Jolt Archive

Everyone's proud these days. You have pride ranging from black and gay to blind and fat. Hell, the only pride you can have that will be called racist is white pride. I know we shouldn't be ashamed of most stuff, but is having a certain skin color, liking a certain gender, or having a certain condition really be that big a bragging right?

Then, there's self-esteem. It seems like F is turning from "failing" to "Fan-freak'n-tastic". WE're seeing schools going from one validictorian to splitting the school into the validictorians and those not good wnough to be validictorians. Don't get me going on "participation" awards. I guess we need a "I actually got off my ass and moved this one time" award to make the "not a big, f'ing lazy, fatass slob" minority of kids feel good about themselves. That's what pride is about. It's about achievement, not mere existance. You passed a test that you found hard. That deserves pride. You are doing something productive that you're good at while working on the areas where you just plain suck. That deserves pride. You were born green and are attracted to cats instead of people. You also follow this religion that encourages you to punch Jews in anti-semantic rage. That's not a bragging right. You're just as big a retard as everyone else. "I didn't achieve anything worthwhile". Big whooptydo. You want a cookie? I beat a very hard game. When I took PE, I finished third in a race, behind the star athlete and my best friend, whom I slowed down for, sacrificing my bragging right. I resisted my urge to punch someone when he punched me in my belly(one of my two weak points, the other being my balls). Those took effort. Those took dedication. I can be proud of those.

What is your take?

Don't know... I'm prod on having survived, I guess. That's about it.

These 'prides' you talk about: Black Pride, Gay Prite, etc. Are constructs to show solidarity. They are movements to show those people who consider them to be flaws, weaknesses or sins that they aren't. That they are as much soethng to be proud of as a part of oneself as the characteristics that their detractors possess.

There's really no need for white pride because it's not considered a weakness. There's no need for Straight Pride because it isn't considered unnatural. There's no need to demonstrate one's pride in one's characteristics if there's nobody who shows contempt for them.

On the other hand, I'm rather amazed there's no White Pride movement in Korea or Japan or other nations with a strong anti-white bias.

On the other hand, I'm rather amazed there's no White Pride movement in Korea or Japan or other nations with a strong anti-white bias.

I guess in most cases, it's simply because caucasians generally don't feel the need for such movements?

You on the other hand, probably belong to the mud pride movement. :p

I guess in most cases, it's simply because caucasians generally don't feel the need for such movements?

You on the other hand, probably belong to the mud pride movement. :p

:confused: Is there something wrong with mud?

But why do they get a parade? So you fancy others of the same sex. Whoopty damn do. You can't control it, so why should you get a parade over everyone else? Also, technically, don't the black panthers show contempt for me as a white person?

But why do they get a parade? So you fancy others of the same sex. Whoopty damn do. You can't control it, so why should you get a parade over everyone else? Also, technically, don't the black panthers show contempt for me as a white person?

They don't "get" a parade, they organise one every year. It's not as if all the straight people in the world get together to make a nice little parade for the poor gay guys, they do the work themselves.
Nobody's stopping you from organising your own parade, you know

if there was "white history month" or a "white entertainment channel" or a "white music awards" the left would be in chaos. Its reverse racism and somehow its right. . .:headbang:

:confused: Is there something wrong with mud?


:fluffle: *fluffles LG with lots of mud*

if there was "white history month" or a "white entertainment channel" or a "white music awards" the left would be in chaos. Its reverse racism and somehow its right. . .:headbang:

Western history IS white history, TV entertainment IS white entertainment (at least, and as far as I can see for the most part of the US and Canada as well) ... no racism there.

In a perfect world, people wouldn't shove their pride in characteristics that they have no control over down everyone's throats. I agree with Avika - you should be proud of something you invest in personally.

But as long as there's negative predjudice over those things, they need a way to make a vocal positive statement about whatever it is, and 'pride' is one of the ways to do so.

The so-called self esteem that is built by these creative exercises is probably a sham that is obvious to everyone concerned. The possible exceptions are the school board/administrators that promote the ideas and the parents whose children benefit. Parents always have a blind eye toward their kids and school adminstrators seem to be distracted from the actual function of schools by any shiny new policy that might get _them_ noticed.

They don't "get" a parade, they organise one every year. It's not as if all the straight people in the world get together to make a nice little parade for the poor gay guys, they do the work themselves.
Nobody's stopping you from organising your own parade, you know
For what? The only way I'm special is that I'm a Liberaterian. *Frowns*

Western history IS white history, TV entertainment IS white entertainment (at least, and as far as I can see for the most part of the US and Canada as well) ... no racism there.

your pretty much right of course, but all i want it be able to say "X month is white history month" b/c I'm sick of hearing about black history month all the time.

Everyone's proud these days. You have pride ranging from black and gay to blind and fat. Hell, the only pride you can have that will be called racist is white pride. I know we shouldn't be ashamed of most stuff, but is having a certain skin color, liking a certain gender, or having a certain condition really be that big a bragging right?
The "pride" is not in having been born with dark skin, or having been born black, or having been born female. One finds pride in being able to walk out in the open, unafraid and unashamed, despite the hordes of jackasses who seem to have nothing better to do with their lives than shit on you for simply existing.

If you want to see the end of these pride displays, then help kill homophobia, racism, and sexism.


Then, there's self-esteem. It seems like F is turning from "failing" to "Fan-freak'n-tastic". WE're seeing schools going from one validictorian to splitting the school into the validictorians and those not good wnough to be validictorians. Don't get me going on "participation" awards. I guess we need a "I actually got off my ass and moved this one time" award to make the "not a big, f'ing lazy, fatass slob" minority of kids feel good about themselves. That's what pride is about. It's about achievement, not mere existance.

None of this is new. My grade school (waaaaaaaaaaay back in the 80s) refused to use letter grades at all, because they were concerned that students were being too emotionally effected by them. We used a number system and lots of stickers.


You passed a test that you found hard. That deserves pride. You are doing something productive that you're good at while working on the areas where you just plain suck. That deserves pride. You were born green and are attracted to cats instead of people.

If you live in a nation where green cat-lovers are treated as subhumans, then you deserve to feel pride if you can manage to grow up into a marginally stable individual. If you can be a loving, honest, respectful, strong person despite all the bullshit that gets shoved at you, then you deserve to feel MOUNTAINS of pride.


You also follow this religion that encourages you to punch Jews in anti-semantic rage. That's not a bragging right.

I don't see how this one fits in with any of the other "pride" groups, since you aren't born with religious beliefs. One's own beliefs are, arguably, one of the things that one can most legitimately take direct pride in, since they are a product of one's own decisions.


You're just as big a retard as everyone else. "I didn't achieve anything worthwhile". Big whooptydo. You want a cookie? I beat a very hard game. When I took PE, I finished third in a race, behind the star athlete and my best friend, whom I slowed down for, sacrificing my bragging right. I resisted my urge to punch someone when he punched me in my belly(one of my two weak points, the other being my balls). Those took effort. Those took dedication. I can be proud of those.

What is your take?
I think you're a very angry and very sheltered person who has be blessed to never experience true bigotry yourself. I don't think you're hateful or cruel or stupid, I just think you have no clue what you are talking about.

In a weird way, I'm kind of glad about your lack of empathy, because it means that you have no personal context to relate any of this to. I'm happy that you've never encountered the kind of hatred and prejudice that I have. I'm happy that you've never had to fight to feel okay with simply existing as the person that you are. I'm glad that being "out" about yourself has not required effort for you. It's great that there are people who get to do that in the world.

But, myself, I'm going to take pride in the fact that I'm fighting every day to build a world where everybody gets to be as clueless as you are. :)

your pretty much right of course, but all i want it be able to say "X month is white history month" b/c I'm sick of hearing about black history month all the time.


I want a Mongol Pride month: one month worth of re-enacting my ancestors great deeds in Bagdad and Damascus.

paaaaaaarty

your pretty much right of course, but all i want it be able to say "X month is white history month" b/c I'm sick of hearing about black history month all the time.
Why do we even need history months? Am I barred from learning about black history on all months but Feburary?

Everyone's proud these days. You have pride ranging from black and gay to blind and fat. Hell, the only pride you can have that will be called racist is white pride. I know we shouldn't be ashamed of most stuff, but is having a certain skin color, liking a certain gender, or having a certain condition really be that big a bragging right?

Then, there's self-esteem. It seems like F is turning from "failing" to "Fan-freak'n-tastic". WE're seeing schools going from one validictorian to splitting the school into the validictorians and those not good wnough to be validictorians. Don't get me going on "participation" awards. I guess we need a "I actually got off my ass and moved this one time" award to make the "not a big, f'ing lazy, fatass slob" minority of kids feel good about themselves. That's what pride is about. It's about achievement, not mere existance. You passed a test that you found hard. That deserves pride. You are doing something productive that you're good at while working on the areas where you just plain suck. That deserves pride. You were born green and are attracted to cats instead of people. You also follow this religion that encourages you to punch Jews in anti-semantic rage. That's not a bragging right. You're just as big a retard as everyone else. "I didn't achieve anything worthwhile". Big whooptydo. You want a cookie? I beat a very hard game. When I took PE, I finished third in a race, behind the star athlete and my best friend, whom I slowed down for, sacrificing my bragging right. I resisted my urge to punch someone when he punched me in my belly(one of my two weak points, the other being my balls). Those took effort. Those took dedication. I can be proud of those.

What is your take?

Are you confusing pride with a sense of acheivement? Because although very similar, I'm sure they're different

I have boob pride... cuz they rock! ( @ ) ( @ ) < see...

*waits for the banning of the 'offensive' post*

I want a Mongol Pride month: one month worth of re-enacting my ancestors great deeds in Bagdad and Damascus.

paaaaaaarty
can I come?... I promise to sit in the corner and be good.. :p

Are you confusing pride with a sense of acheivement? Because although very similar, I'm sure they're different

I have boob pride... cuz they rock! ( @ ) ( @ ) < see...

*waits for the banning of the 'offensive' post*
*ponders* You are one of the best humans to ever exist. <nod ;)

can I come?... I promise to sit in the corner and be good.. :p


Join the fun! And explore Kumis.

*ponders* You are one of the best humans to ever exist. <nod ;)
I'd sig that if I knew how!

:fluffle:

Join the fun! And explore Kumis.
Kumis?

I dearnt ask

I'd sig that if I knew how!

:fluffle:
Do the quote thing and copy paste it into your sig.:)

Do the quote thing and copy paste it into your sig.:)

Ta Da!

Western history IS white history, TV entertainment IS white entertainment (at least, and as far as I can see for the most part of the US and Canada as well) ... no racism there.


Western History should not be considered 'White History'.Im appauled.My ancestors are of european descent and I've only ever found maybe 20 people whose aren't.And they are of Indian,Middle-Eastern,Asian and Inuit Descent.They're ancestors were here before any of the 'whites' I know were.My own grandfather arrived here in 1954 from Holland.Western History is NOT White History.The Haullocaust is taught once in high school.One week in one grade,not One month every year for 12 years.Thats a complete year of black history.By now I know more about them from school than my own race.White Television?No.The music played is enjoyed mainly by the Black ethnicities with only one predominantly 'white' Music Entertainment channel.Country Music Television.I find there being no form of completely TRUE 'white' entertainment.Disgusting.There is none admited to be made for STRICTLY white viewing.That is what BET is for blacks.Might want to revise that theory genius.

Ta Da!
*Feels special* I think I should start a parade. ;)

*Feels special* I think I should start a parade. ;)
A pride parade?

I'm not geting my pride out though!

Kumis?

I dearnt ask
Don't ask - just consume.

And get sozzled.

With a good write-up in the Times, Kumis can become ever so posh.

Being proud of being something that you didn't achieved is pretty silly. That's why I laugh at people being proud of being an american, of being black, of being gay, of being a woman, of being an asian and so forth. Perhaps your parents can be proud of that, but not you.

I am not proud of my gender, my nationality, my race or my sexual preference. I am proud of what I have done trying to make this world a better place and of what I have endured while trying. That's a true, rightful reason to be proud of.

In other words, I entirely agree with the OP.

I'm not proud of being an American per se, I'm proud of my country and happy I'm an American though.

Don't ask - just consume.

And get sozzled.

With a good write-up in the Times, Kumis can become ever so posh.
is there munching to be had?

.. I shall rephrase

is there food?

is there munching to be had?

.. I shall rephrase

is there food?

Not in Kumis. But there is such a thing as mongol stew - served in some of the best chinese restaurants ( but not in the takeaway places ).

Being proud of being something that you didn't achieved is pretty silly. That's why I laugh at people being proud of being an american, of being black, of being gay, of being a woman, of being an asian and so forth. Perhaps your parents can be proud of that, but not you.

Living is an openly gay person in today's society is indeed something one has "achieved." So, I'll be as fucking proud of myself that I stand up to the bigots who just want me to shut up and go away so they can pretend I don't exist, thank you very much. I couldn't give a shit what you think I "can" and "cannot" be proud of.

If you want to see the end of these pride displays, then help kill homophobia, racism, and sexism.



I think if the pride displays need to stop to kill homophobia, racism and sexism. All the pride marches do is keep making sexuality, skin colour and gender an issue, which only ensures that homophobia, racism and sexism continue to exist.

Living is an openly gay person in today's society is indeed something one has "achieved." So, I'll be as fucking proud of myself that I stand up to the bigots who just want me to shut up and go away so they can pretend I don't exist, thank you very much. I couldn't give a shit what you think I "can" and "cannot" be proud of.

The problem is, little brat, that I still hold the right to say that I don't think your reasons are enough to be proud of. If you give a fuck, a shit, or whatever you want to "give" about it, it's ok, it's your problem.

Complaining about being gay?, try to be a woman, moreso, a woman in a extremely machist society, where everyone thinks you are just a sex machine, a pretty face and so forth, and yet I am not proud of being merely a "woman". We all suffer from bias and discrimination based in something we are, and yet just by "being" that do not give us any reasons to be proud of. We all achieved things by being of different gender, race, religion or sexual preference and facing the stupid bigots for it, but it is not enough to say "I'm proud to be gay", "I'm proud to be a negro", "I'm proud to be a jew". It is proud to say "I am proud to have fought for the rights of those discriminated by the same reason as me".

Yet, that's my vision, if you want to feel proud for being gay, up to you. You don't have any merit to my eyes, although.

Being proud of being something that you didn't achieved is pretty silly. That's why I laugh at people being proud of being an american, of being black, of being gay, of being a woman, of being an asian and so forth. Perhaps your parents can be proud of that, but not you.

Here's the thing, though.

There are PILES of people who will do everything in their power to make you believe that you are worthless because you are black, or gay, or female, etc.

There is an entire society that will marginalize you, stereotype you, and strip you of any trace of individualism because you are A BLACK PERSON or A GAY PERSON or A WOMAN. You will live in a world where you are often not permitted to be you, because the world is too busy telling you that you are A BLACK PERSON or A GAY PERSON or A WOMAN.

There are literally millions upon millions of people who are dedicated to ensuring that you, as a black person or gay person or woman, will not be allowed the same rights as actual human beings.

If, after living in a world like that, you are still able to be happy and strong and productive and respectful, then you fucking well deserve to be proud. And you deserve to flip the bird at the people who reduce you to being A BLACK PERSON or A GAY PERSON or A WOMAN, by expressing pride in the very thing that they try to use to strip you of your rights and dignity. They're going to see you as nothing but A BLACK PERSON or A GAY PERSON or A WOMAN anyhow, so they might as well be forced to endure the sight of you being a happy, strong, confident, proud PERSON. ;)

The problem is, little brat, that I still hold the right to say that I don't think your reasons are enough to be proud of. If you give a fuck, a shit, or whatever you want to "give" about it, it's ok, it's your problem.

So we can all agree that neither one of you gives a shit what the other one thinks, right?

Makes me wonder why people who care so little are posting so much...;)

The problem is, little brat, that I still hold the right to say that I don't think your reasons are enough to be proud of. If you give a fuck, a shit, or whatever you want to "give" about it, it's ok, it's your problem.

Of course you hold "a right." That doesn't mean what you're saying isn't stupid.

Complaining about being gay?,

I'd never complain about being gay. I love being gay. I complain about bigots.

try to be a woman, moreso, a woman in a extremely machist society, where everyone thinks you are just a sex machine, a pretty face and so forth, and yet I am not proud of being merely a "woman".

You can be proud if you get off your fat ass and do something about it. Like most people who do attend gay pride events, because, it is indeed doing something to come out and to say "no more!"

We all suffer from bias and discrimination based in something we are, and yet just by "being" that do not give us any reasons to be proud of. We all achieved things by being of different gender, race, religion or sexual preference and facing the stupid bigots for it, but it is not enough to say "I'm proud to be gay", "I'm proud to be a negro", "I'm proud to be a jew". It is proud to say "I am proud to have fought for the rights of those discriminated by the same reason as me".

It is indeed enough to say "I'm proud to be X" if people are telling you should be ashamed of it and hide it and never speak of it again.

Yet, that's my vision, if you want to feel proud for being gay, up to you. You don't have any merit to my eyes, although.

Kind of like your opinion has no merit in mine.

Of course you hold "a right." That doesn't mean what you're saying isn't stupid.



I'd never complain about being gay. I love being gay. I complain about bigots.



You can be proud if you get off your fat ass and do something about it. Like most people who do attend gay pride events, because, it is indeed doing something to come out and to say "no more!"



It is indeed enough to say "I'm proud to be X" if people are telling you should be ashamed of it and hide it and never speak of it again.



Kind of like your opinion has no merit in mine.

In your context, a bigot is someone who does not approve of you, your views, and your actions.

A bit like a Leftist who uses fascism as a brand-name for those who don't agree with him.

On your meritability: are you proud of being a bit of a tosser, mate?

In your context, a bigot is someone who does not approve of you, your views, and your actions.

Doesn't sound that way to me. It sounds like he's saying a bigot is somebody who tells him he should be ashamed of who he is, or somebody who feels he should hide away and not trouble the world with his existence.

That's quite different from expecting everybody to approve of you, your views, or your actions.

Of course you hold "a right." That doesn't mean what you're saying isn't stupid.

You are one of those that think that everyone that do not entirely agree with you are stupid, no?. Way to go for speaking about tolerance, bigot



I'd never complain about being gay. I love being gay. I complain about bigots.

Try to open your view a bit, it can help. Resentment is not exactly what I would call...helpful. Mostly if bigotry is your...enemy

You can be proud if you get off your fat ass and do something about it. Like most people who do attend gay pride events, because, it is indeed doing something to come out and to say "no more!"

My shapely ass has done a lot about it. Not just attending to the middle of a street with a sign, but improving the situation with actual facts, like funding organizations and really moving about it. You just picked the wrong argument against the wrong person

It is indeed enough to say "I'm proud to be X" if people are telling you should be ashamed of it and hide it and never speak of it again.

No, it is not enough, it is lazy to do just that and saying that you are proud of it. The kind of attitude that gives a bad name for the ones actually doing something.

And Bottle, my point is that merely "being" something looked down in your society is not a reason to be proud of, but moving to improve the rights, freedoms and status of said group in your social group. Not just fighting for yourself, but fighting for those in a similar situation. You can be proud of being a successful, wonderful and free woman, not just "a woman". Sounds to me that we are arguing using the same argument, but meh.

Doesn't sound that way to me. It sounds like he's saying a bigot is somebody who tells him he should be ashamed of who he is, or somebody who feels he should hide away and not trouble the world with his existence.

That's quite different from expecting everybody to approve of you, your views, or your actions.


It strikes me as odd that freedom to express how you feel should not include the freedom to express that you feel someone ought not to exist.

If it does so, he is not in the right for expressing that a bigot ( who expresses that he feels the other feller should not exist ) should not exist.

Freedom must most definetely include the right to be utterly parochial.

It strikes me as odd that freedom to express how you feel should not include the freedom to express that you feel someone ought not to exist.

I don't think anybody has yet suggested that people shouldn't have the freedom to say bigotted things. I have personally asserted, on many occasions, that I will defend freedom of expression for bigots. Of course, I will also call them bigots...because that is what they are. Calling somebody a bigot does not infringe on their freedom of expression.


If it does so, he is not in the right for expressing that a bigot ( who expresses that he feels the other feller should not exist ) should not exist.

I guess it's all about how you interpret the "should." I think just about the best thing that could happen for this world is for bigotry to disappear. That would mean that bigots would no longer exist. However, that doesn't change the fact that I do support freedom of expression for the bigots who, unfortunately, do exist.


Freedom must most definetely include the right to be utterly parochial.
Sure. And I don't think anybody is proposing that we forcibly silence bigots. Calling a bigot a bigot does not stop the bigot from bigotting. :)

I think if the pride displays need to stop to kill homophobia, racism and sexism. All the pride marches do is keep making sexuality, skin colour and gender an issue, which only ensures that homophobia, racism and sexism continue to exist.
You heard it here first, folks: The Million Man March caused racism!

Gotta call bullshit on that one. Read your history books: homophobia, racism, and sexism existed long before pride parades, and the most dramatic decreases in homophobia, racism, and sexism have coincided with the rise in pride displays.

SNIP


1. I guess it's all about how you interpret the "should." I think just about the best thing that could happen for this world is for bigotry to disappear. That would mean that bigots would no longer exist. However, that doesn't change the fact that I do support freedom of expression for the bigots who, unfortunately, do exist.


2. Sure. And I don't think anybody is proposing that we forcibly silence bigots. Calling a bigot a bigot does not stop the bigot from bigotting. :)

1. I'm too much of a realist - or Social Darwinist if it pleases you.
I'm assuming that bigotry - like rape - has persisted through several million years ( it did not start with the human race ) because it has survival-value.
Therefore I take leave to doubt that a bigot-free world would be a better world.
( And ditto for all the other quirks of mankind - if they were devoid of benefit, they would not exist at all ( which coincidentally means that I think there must be some kind of benefit to having homosexuals as part of the genepool. Ditto for genocide. Ditto for left-handism. Ditto for stupidity. Ditto for altruism. )

2. I'm sceptical about the notion that you express here: I don't think we ought to have a law that stops people from being bigotted. As long as we have laws that try to promote diversity, I think we're doing something horribly and stupidly wrong.

You heard it here first, folks: The Million Man March caused racism!

Gotta call bullshit on that one. Read your history books: homophobia, racism, and sexism existed long before pride parades, and the most dramatic decreases in homophobia, racism, and sexism have coincided with the rise in pride displays.

I never claimed that pride marches caused homophobia, racism or sexism.
What I'm saying is that it's time for people to stop making it an issue. I don't care if you're gay, a woman, and/or black because it's not an issue to me; I only care what you're like as a person.

Just like people have said above, it's time to be proud of achievements.

1. I'm too much of a realist - or Social Darwinist if it pleases you.
I'm assuming that bigotry - like rape - has persisted through several million years ( it did not start with the human race ) because it has survival-value.
Therefore I take leave to doubt that a bigot-free world would be a better world.

So you believe that a world without rape would not be a better world?

Personally, I don't use survival value alone to assign "moral" value to something. If you simply define "good" as "anything which does not hinder the individual's ability to survive," then that's far more general than I am prepared to go.


( And ditto for all the other quirks of mankind - if they were devoid of benefit, they would not exist at all ( which coincidentally means that I think there must be some kind of benefit to having homosexuals as part of the genepool. Ditto for genocide. Ditto for left-handism. Ditto for stupidity. Ditto for altruism. )

I don't find that the data support that theory. There are plenty of non-beneficial traits that are not weeded out, and plenty of traits that persist even though they are specifically non-beneficial. It is incorrect to assume that a trait must be beneficial because it exists or persists through generations.


2. I'm sceptical about the notion that you express here: I don't think we ought to have a law that stops people from being bigotted.
That's what I said: we should not be trying to forcibly silence bigots. It doesn't work, for one thing, and it also isn't consistent with my beliefs on expression.


As long as we have laws that try to promote diversity, I think we're doing something horribly and stupidly wrong.
I don't think we do have laws that "promote" diversity, at least not where I live. We have laws that prohibit discrimination due to diversity, but that's absolutely not "promoting" diversity. It simply states that you can't refuse to hire somebody BECAUSE they are gay; it doesn't require you to hire somebody because they're gay. You aren't allowed to refuse to serve black people, but you also aren't required to allow a patron to do anything they want simply because they are black. The laws where I live simply enforce the notion that features such as gender, race, or sexuality cannot be used (in and of themselves) to deny an individual rights or services that are available to the public.

So you believe that a world without rape would not be a better world?

Personally, I don't use survival value alone to assign "moral" value to something. If you simply define "good" as "anything which does not hinder the individual's ability to survive," then that's far more general than I am prepared to go.


I don't find that the data support that theory. There are plenty of non-beneficial traits that are not weeded out, and plenty of traits that persist even though they are specifically non-beneficial. It is incorrect to assume that a trait must be beneficial because it exists or persists through generations.

That's what I said: we should not be trying to forcibly silence bigots. It doesn't work, for one thing, and it also isn't consistent with my beliefs on expression.


I don't think we do have laws that "promote" diversity, at least not where I live. We have laws that prohibit discrimination due to diversity, but that's absolutely not "promoting" diversity. It simply states that you can't refuse to hire somebody BECAUSE they are gay; it doesn't require you to hire somebody because they're gay. You aren't allowed to refuse to serve black people, but you also aren't required to allow a patron to do anything they want simply because they are black. The laws where I live simply enforce the notion that features such as gender, race, or sexuality cannot be used (in and of themselves) to deny an individual rights or services that are available to the public.

I don't think 'morals' have much meaning outside of the society on whose 'mos' they are based. Having said that, I feel the only possible race-wide ( which appear to be the only feasible set of morals that are not alltogether relative ) morals must be survival-values.

Yes, I am utterly sceptical about the notion that a rape-free ( or genocide-free ) world would actually be a better world. *shrug* Negative feedback mechanisms must exist.

The weeding-out mechanisms must be messy: imbalances ( say, asthma? ) must be the result of the weeding-out mechanisms having been denied their proper opportunities to do their ugly work.

I think that ANY Law that hinders me/we to use me/our collective power to boycott any group which me/I dislike is outtabounds.

I never claimed that pride marches caused homophobia, racism or sexism.
What I'm saying is that it's time for people to stop making it an issue.

People have been saying that for centuries. They were saying it back when women won the vote. They said it back when blacks were freed from slavery. They said it back when AIDS was finally recognized as more than just a "gay disease."

For generations, people in the majority have been telling women and blacks and gays and Jews and every other minority to just shut up already. For generations, minorities have been told that enough is enough, and they should be content to just let society work things out from now on. For generations, activists have been told that their work is done.

And, for generations, minorities have owed every inch of progress to the activists and the individuals who didn't listen to any such bullshit. I was able to go to college because my grandmother didn't listen when people told her to stop going to marches. I enjoy the right to choose because my mother didn't listen to the people who told her to quit being so strident. I am able to hold a girlfriend's hand in public because my uncles didn't listen when they were asked to just be quietly gay and stop marching in Pride parades.


I don't care if you're gay, a woman, and/or black because it's not an issue to me; I only care what you're like as a person.

That's great, but you're not the world. When the rest of the world can view others as you do, then (and only then) will it be time to give the Pride parades a rest.


Just like people have said above, it's time to be proud of achievements.First of all, it's not like you can only do one or the other. Second of all, my entire point all along has been that Pride parades ARE ABOUT ACHIEVEMENTS. Read more carefully.

Furthermore, a lot of Pride parades are celebrations of millions of tiny freedoms that have to be fought for. I went to a Pride parade with a girlfriend once, and it was the first time she and I had ever been able to hold hands in public without getting harassed. I kissed her on the cheek, right out there in public, with the sun shining down and crowds of people all around, and nobody threw a bottle at us or called us filthy sluts. Nobody started chasing us. Nobody threatened to hurt us. And, as pathetic as it sounds, that made us feel like celebrating. We were only doing what every single straight couple gets to do whenever they like, but for us it was like the greatest party ever.

And we were proud that, as a community, we could make that possible. We were proud to be able to create a little island of loving sanity in a crazy and bigotted place. We did that, as a group, by asserting that we are all HERE. Most of us had no idea how many of us there were. Most of us had no idea how many other people were feeling the way we did. And we never would have known, if not for Pride.

That was only six years ago. So tell me again how these parades aren't necessary.

people want to be equall but at they same time they want to be different. its a never ending battle and as long as they have rights to fight about they will fight.

even 1000 years from now if homosexuals and heterosexuals are getting married in the same chapel and black people and white people are both minorities to mexicans. there will be a black history month, a gay history month, a black pride, and a gay pride.

people want to be equall but at they same time they want to be different. its a never ending battle and as long as they have rights to fight about they will fight.

There's no contradiction in wanting to be different and yet equal to other human beings. There's also no reason why this battle must be never-ending, though I think there are lots of reasons why it hasn't ended YET.


even 1000 years from now if homosexuals and heterosexuals are getting married in the same chapel and black people and white people are both minorities to mexicans. there will be a black history month, a gay history month, a black pride, and a gay pride.Dude, 1000 years from now our robot overlords won't put up with human displays of pride.

I be proud to be:

-white
-English
- Tory
- intelligent
- the exception to the rule where the "system" is concerned
- caucasian
- European
- francophone
- "alternative";)

There's no contradiction in wanting to be different and yet equal to other human beings. There's also no reason why this battle must be never-ending, though I think there are lots of reasons why it hasn't ended YET.

for as long as there are people on this globe, some group will see them self as superior or opressed.

Dude, 1000 years from now our robot overlords won't put up with human displays of pride.

that is why we must fight the battle now before it is too late

*throws computer out window*

I be proud to be:

-white
-English
- Tory
- intelligent
- the exception to the rule where the "system" is concerned
- caucasian
- European
- francophone
- "alternative";)

Do I comment or let it rest?

Do I comment or let it rest?

I'm in an arsey mood. Bad day and all that. Let it rest.

Western history IS white history, TV entertainment IS white entertainment (at least, and as far as I can see for the most part of the US and Canada as well) ... no racism there.

That and, seriously, would you watch a channel called WET?

That and, seriously, would you watch a channel called WET?
Yes, but probably for all the wrong reasons...

Yes, but probably for all the wrong reasons...

Now that made me laugh

That and, seriously, would you watch a channel called WET?

why the hell not?

people watch the playboy channel

That and, seriously, would you watch a channel called WET?
I would, a few times. I would stop once I realize that the name is decieving because, dispite its name, the channel is surprisingly full of dry things.

As for the pride things, it's only real pride if you did something. If you did something to help end discrimination, pat yourself on the back and take that cookie. If you are just complaining about it, either do something about it or shut up. For all the young blacks out there, Martin Luthor King's achievements are not your achievements. Those who died to end segregation are not you. Those who bled so you can get a decent education are not you, unless you bled for the cause.

To all the women out there, you are not Susan B. Anthony. Unless you worked for your equality, shut up about your "pride". Niether gender "has it easy". Boys today are taught to be both competitive and cooperative. Not easy concepts once you understand the young male mind. Basicly, you're teaching them two different concepts at such a young age. They also have to deal with being the "oppressive" gender. They are basicly getting the message that they are the bad guys and that they are getting the easy life. Keep in mind that these are not adults here.

My point? You are the "oppressed"? So what. That alone is not enough to justify pride. You have to earn it through sweat, tears, and blood. We are being told that simply existing as the oppressed color or the oppressed gender or the oppressed whatever is enough to justify pride. That's not enough. You have to do something about it to earn that pride. You have to fight for your equality to get your pride.