NationStates Jolt Archive

I was wondering where the line is between teaching your children and indoctrinating them?

Can people give me an example of indoctrination?

I got into a discussion today with someone IRL about this and I am still confused. You guys talk about not indoctrinating kids a lot though, so I thought I would get a wide variety of information here.

Some lines are very blurry :confused:

I suppose the line is somewhere in the neighborhood of encouraging them to keep an open mind and to consider that there might be more than one side to an issue.

Teaching them one thing in a particular category (probably the one that you agree with) is indoctrination. Teaching them all the things and possibilities in a particular category is teaching.

Take religion for example. If you only teach one religion to your kid, it's effectively indoctrination. If you provide them with ALL the sides of the issue (what atheists think, what agnostics think, what buddhists think, what jews think, etc.), explain the reasoning, and let them decide, then it's the opposite of indoctrination, whatever it's called.

I believe the line is drawn when you begin to fill the minds of your children with total bullshit over objective facts than have been proven over decades of trials. That's all I'm gonna say, but even so, I'll most likely have some light-headed posters get something out of this post that was never there in the first place.

When they start repeating political party lines and American superiorist bullshit, that is when they are indoctrinated.

There isn't one. Indoctrination is a value-neutral term.

Bah. Chances are it’ll hate you when it grows up and resent everything you’ve taught it anyway. Not worth worrying about.

... the opposite of indoctrination, whatever it's called.
Education?

Teaching them one thing in a particular category (probably the one that you agree with) is indoctrination. Teaching them all the things and possibilities in a particular category is teaching.

Take religion for example. If you only teach one religion to your kid, it's effectively indoctrination. If you provide them with ALL the sides of the issue (what atheists think, what agnostics think, what buddhists think, what jews think, etc.), explain the reasoning, and let them decide, then it's the opposite of indoctrination, whatever it's called.
so am I responsible for taking them to all the different churches? or just making known what others believe?

What if I am not completely unbiased when discussing it? am I indoctrintating them then?

(just asking so I am completely clear)

Bah. Chances are it’ll hate you when it grows up and resent everything you’ve taught it anyway. Not worth worrying about.
Mmm, I think not. Kids usually hate their parents only between the ages of 12 and 21, after which they are astonished at how smart their folks have suddenly become.

When they start repeating political party lines and American superiorist bullshit, that is when they are indoctrinated.
whoa, where the heck did that come from?

There isn't one. Indoctrination is a value-neutral term.
I entirely disagree. Indoctrination is easy to spot. When kids too young to have developed their own opinion on something intangible have an uncontradictable opinion of it, they are indoctrinated.

Teaching - 2+2=4

Indoctrination - I pledge allegiance to the flag...

whoa, where the heck did that come from?
The other thread >_>

I entirely disagree. Indoctrination is easy to spot. When kids too young to have developed their own opinion on something intangible and have an uncontradictable opinion of it, they are indoctrinated.
how do you know when they are too young?

so am I responsible for taking them to all the different churches? or just making known what others believe?

What if I am not completely unbiased when discussing it? am I indoctrintating them then?

(just asking so I am completely clear)
I think if you say, "This is what I believe in. I would like it if you share my belief, but it's okay if you decide to believe something else." There's an age factor involved here, too, you aren't going to be having this discussion with a six-year-old.

To teach is to instill knowledge. To indoctrinate is to instill opinion.

At least, that's how I've always seen it.

I was wondering where the line is between teaching your children and indoctrinating them?

Can people give me an example of indoctrination?

I got into a discussion today with someone IRL about this and I am still confused. You guys talk about not indoctrinating kids a lot though, so I thought I would get a wide variety of information here.
People complain about Indoctrination when talking about raising kids. the only thing I can see being wrong is preventing your child from experienceing other points of view. to keep them sheltered from other POV's will seem like indoctrination.

Teaching - 2+2=4

Indoctrination - I pledge allegiance to the flag...
how is teaching the pledge indoctrination?


The other thread >_>
other thred? must have missed it.

so am I responsible for taking them to all the different churches? or just making known what others believe?

What if I am not completely unbiased when discussing it? am I indoctrintating them then?

(just asking so I am completely clear)
I think actively toting them around to each church is a bit far. I don't see anything wrong with taking them to the church you go to but explain to them how other people feel about the things they've heard there. Make it clear to them that it is up to them to discover for themselves what to believe.

Can people give me an example of indoctrination?


"You filthy heathen hippie! You will get out in the barn and scream the Lord's Prayer and the Pledge of Allegiance until Jesus comes and lets you out!"

Yeah ... I'd say that's a good one.

how do you know when they are too young?
For the most part that is releative, but it's spottable when it is there. You say your kids are smart and able to debate politics, relatively, fine. That's great, but talking about something is different than repeating talking points and ignorant generalizations that define indoctrination.

Teaching - 2+2=4

Well, there are theories that oppose it.

Indoctrination - I pledge allegiance to the flag...

If: Pattriotism = Indoctrination, then yes.

so am I responsible for taking them to all the different churches? or just making known what others believe?

What if I am not completely unbiased when discussing it? am I indoctrintating them then?

(just asking so I am completely clear)

No. To my mind the difference between indoctrination and teaching is simply that indoctrination tolerates no dissent.

For example:

I'm a Christian/Atheist/Muslim. Some people aren't because they are [deceived by Satan/superstious rednecks/brainwashed by the western media] = indoctrination.

I'm a Christian/Atheist/Muslim but some people have different beliefs for various reasons =/= indoctrination.

Basically as long as you don't teach them that opposing points of view are to be dismissed out of hand then it's not indoctrination.

I entirely disagree. Indoctrination is easy to spot. When kids too young to have developed their own opinion on something intangible have an uncontradictable opinion of it, they are indoctrinated.

So teaching anything abstract to children counts as indoctrination?

But I teach everything in the abstract. It's the best way to reach universal maxims. As such, are you saying that all teaching I do to children counts as indoctrination?

If: Pattriotism = Indoctrination, then yes.

Patriotism isnt something that can be defined by the words you speak. Especially when you are forced to. Of course, you arent exactly forced to, but many children I am sure are afraid to NOT recite the pledge.

I think actively toting them around to each church is a bit far. I don't see anything wrong with taking them to the church you go to but explain to them how other people feel about the things they've heard there. Make it clear to them that it is up to them to discover for themselves what to believe.
Okay, here is the deal, I have a friend who is a nut (I mean really she's nuts) and she was going on in this rant today about how I take my kids to church with me....

Even though my oldest (youngest is still pretty young) fully understands that I am not "making" her go, and if she doesn't want to go it's not a big deal, I have someone she can stay with while we go, and all that.

Apparently just by taking her to church, I am "brainwashing" her.

I am thinking "no" but she went on and on, and then started in with my homeschooling and how "the only reason you keep them home is to brainwash them further" and all that crap, so then I start thinking

where is the line? what if I cross it? what if my kids are brainwashed? what if I am brainwashed???????????

freaking out you know, then I realize she is a nut, but I should start a thred on it anyway right? LOL

Patriotism isnt something that can be defined by the words you speak. Especially when you are forced to. Of course, you arent exactly forced to, but many children I am sure are afraid to NOT recite the pledge.

If you can prove the 'fear' part, I might be strongly inclided to believe you.

The difference is in how you answer questions.
"Why is the sky blue?"
Teaching: "Because light reflects off of tiny particles in the air. Blue light have a short wavelength, so it bounces off. Bigger wavelengths, like red, just go around." And then answering the subsequent questions in similar fashion.
Indoctrination: "Because I said so!" *smack*

The only thing I can see being wrong is preventing your child from experienceing other points of view.

It's a double edged sword. It's my house and I don't want Christian filth in my house, so my children - while they live in my house - will never attend Christian services. This is a right I should be allowed.

Would you let your children smoke cigarettes and drink liquor in your house to ensure they were adequately educated as to the potential harmful effects of overconsumption of these things?

We all teach and we all indoctrinate. Such is the way of things. We don't let a 5 year old decide for themselves that it's ok to stab their brother in the eye and we don't explain why just as we don't let a 14 year old decide it's ok to butt fuck their girlfriend on our kitchen table.

Such is being a parent. If such things make me a "closed minded monster", so be it. Call CPS.

so am I responsible for taking them to all the different churches? or just making known what others believe?

What if I am not completely unbiased when discussing it? am I indoctrintating them then?

(just asking so I am completely clear)
the problem is that one cannot be totally unbiased. take religion. of course you can share your beliefs with your children. if they have questions and comments about other Religions and beliefs, how you handle it is entirely up to you.

Indoctrination can only be seen by others. You won't catch yourself doing it, but others will. that's the nature of Indoctrination.

Some here state that saying the pledge is a form of indoctrination. others state teaching only ONE religion is a form of Indoctrination. when the truth is that preventing your child from experiencing a love of Nation or a set of beliefs is also indoctrination.

If you can prove the 'fear' part, I might be strongly inclided to believe you.

I know of one person who kept seated during the pledge in my high school. He was suspended for 3 days.

Do you know anyone who keeps silent or sits during it?

Well, there are theories that oppose it.
They're not theories; they're different conventions. In all mathematical theory where the statements might have meaning, by the definitions of 2, 4, the addition function and the equality relation, 2+2=4.

we don't explain why just as we don't let a 14 year old decide it's ok to butt fuck their girlfriend on our kitchen table.

Prude.

I know of one person who kept seated during the pledge in my high school. He was suspended for 3 days.

Do you know anyone who keeps silent or sits during it?

No. We don't swear loyalty to the flag where I live. It might be a good idea to introduce it I think.

They're not theories; they're different conventions. In all mathematical theory where the statements might have meaning, by the definitions of 2, 4, the addition function and the equality relation, 2+2=4.

But if you say there is no other truth than this equation, could it not be considered indoctrination?

Do you know anyone who keeps silent or sits during it?

I have never once in my life ever said the Pledge of Allegiance.

It's a double edged sword. It's my house and I don't want Christian filth in my house, so my children - while they live in my house - will never attend Christian services. This is a right I should be allowed.ahh, now while they are under your care, that is true, but step back and look at your statement. you can be accused of indoctrinating your kids against Religion and Christianity.

Would you let your children smoke cigarettes and drink liquor in your house to ensure they were adequately educated as to the potential harmful effects of overconsumption of these things?actually, I was. My grandfather always told his kids, "let your child taste alcohol before the age of 5, and they won't touch it untill they are adults. and so far, all of my cousins and I who had this done didn't really start drinking until they were past 21. Those that didn't have this done started drinking much earlier. same with smoking... tho for my family, it was the fact that my father smoked, so we got sick of smelling cigerettes all over the place.

We all teach and we all indoctrinate. Such is the way of things. We don't let a 5 year old decide for themselves that it's ok to stab their brother in the eye and we don't explain why just as we don't let a 14 year old decide it's ok to butt fuck their girlfriend on our kitchen table.which is why I said Points of Views and Ideas.

Such is being a parent. If such things make me a "closed minded monster", so be it. Call CPS.nope, to me, it just makes you a parent.

I was wondering where the line is between teaching your children and indoctrinating them?

Can people give me an example of indoctrination?

I got into a discussion today with someone IRL about this and I am still confused. You guys talk about not indoctrinating kids a lot though, so I thought I would get a wide variety of information here.

I think indoctrination begins at the point of being intolerant of them considering options other than what you teach them.

Prude.

Dude ... I have to eat there! I don't want their sanctorum all over my breakfast.

nope, to me, it just makes you a parent.

Aye ... and we seem to agree on all this ... I'm just makin' conversation. :)

No. We don't swear loyalty to the flag where I live. It might be a good idea to introduce it I think.

Where do you live?

so am I responsible for taking them to all the different churches? or just making known what others believe?

If you take them to any church, then you should take them to all (I don't expect ALL, but at least many). If they ask you to go to a specific church, then you should take them, and it doesn't force you to take them to other churches.

If you want to teach religion to your child, you are responsible (for a lack of a better word) to teach them many of the popular beliefs. Not just making known what other believe, but beyond that, teaching them as you would teach of your own religion.

Anything less and you're pushing them towards a specific path, while anything more (or equal) and you're encouraging them to decide for themselves. That, or you can just abstain from teaching any religion to your kid, but I think that would be equivalent to ignorance... you wouldn't not teach your kid X because there are too many things to teach about it.

What if I am not completely unbiased when discussing it? am I indoctrintating them then?

Bias is expected, and I don't have a problem with it as long as you try to keep it to a minimum. Hopefully, you should have no bias, to make sure they're making their own decisions. And of course, absolutely NO "this is the one true God" during any of the religion-teaching... unless you apply that to all of the religions (where it applies).

But if you say there is no other truth than this equation, could it not be considered indoctrination?

Ugh...ok...

Does 2+2=4? One way or the other, can you say that in the set of all real numbers, which is the most commonly used except for discrete mathematicians, that 2+2=4? If so, its fact, and not an opinion.

Where do you live?

Holland.

If you want to teach religion to your child, you are responsible (for a lack of a better word) to teach them many of the popular beliefs.

Isn't it better to teach them strength of conviction? Why should a Christian be forced to teach their children Islam? Why should a Muslim be forced to teach their children Wicca? Why should an Atheist read the Bible to their children?

No, that makes no sense. No sense whatsoever. It is the parent's job to teach the child their way, it is up to the child, upon reaching adulthood, to decide whether or not to branch away or continue the path.

An open mind can become an open sewer without guidance.

So, where is the line between instilling values in your children and indoctrinating them?

we pray before meals, is that indoctrinating them? how about Bible studies?

what if I tell them I think that Michael Savage is a jerk?

what if they ask me what I believe about heaven and hell? do I tell them? what if it's not "nice"?

Dude ... I have to eat there! I don't want their sanctorum all over my breakfast.

Santorum, if you please, and your breakfast won't be there while he's buttfucking her (or him - be a doll and skip the heteronormativity, hmmkay? You do so well with yourself).

And I don't know what kind of anal sex you've had, but santorum isn't supposed to come gushing out like that. Well, unless you like it to, but then you should teach your kid about proper hygiene arrangements and the value of rubber sheets instead of banning him from getting inventive with Jerker, your painstakingly self-assembled IKEA table.

Ugh...ok...

Does 2+2=4? One way or the other, can you say that in the set of all real numbers, which is the most commonly used except for discrete mathematicians, that 2+2=4? If so, its fact, and not an opinion.

I'd like to think so.

Teaching is what parents do for their children. Indoctrination is what others accuse the parents of doing when they disagree with what the parents are teaching.

Santorum, if you please, and your breakfast won't be there while he's buttfucking her (or him - be a doll and skip the heteronormativity, hmmkay? You do so well with yourself).

And I don't know what kind of anal sex you've had, but santorum isn't supposed to come gushing out like that. Well, unless you like it too, but then you should teach your kid about proper hygiene arrangements and the value of rubber sheets instead of banning him from getting inventive with Jerker, your painstakingly self-assembled IKEA table.

Sorry ... overcome with the giggles ... I have no response here ...

Holland.

Ok. Here in the US, students are "asked" to routinely stand up every morning before class and recite the pledge of indoctr...allegiance. Because of free speech, you dont HAVE to, but apparently schools can suspend you anyway, as was the case with my friend.

So, where is the line between instilling values in your children and indoctrinating them?

we pray before meals, is that indoctrinating them? how about Bible studies?

what if I tell them I think that Michael Savage is a jerk?

what if they ask me what I believe about heaven and hell? do I tell them? what if it's not "nice"?
There really isn't any line that one can define. all you can do is instill values that you want them to have. Answer their questions as truthfully and honestly you can, and hope they live a life that makes you proud and keeps them happy and safe.

Teaching is what parents do for their children. Indoctrination is what others accuse the parents of doing when they disagree with what the parents are teaching.
that's the feeling I get.

Teaching is what parents do for their children. Indoctrination is what others accuse the parents of doing when they disagree with what the parents are teaching.
agreed.

Ok. Here in the US, students are "asked" to routinely stand up every morning before class and recite the pledge of indoctr...allegiance. Because of free speech, you dont HAVE to, but apparently schools can suspend you anyway, as was the case with my friend.

Again, Texan born and raised, and I have never once in my life ever said the Pledge of Allegiance. It is a choice, even in a child.

Ok. Here in the US, students are "asked" to routinely stand up every morning before class and recite the pledge of indoctr...allegiance. Because of free speech, you dont HAVE to, but apparently schools can suspend you anyway, as was the case with my friend.

Oh wait. Did they call him 'unpattriottic' in the process?

Teaching is what parents do for their children. Indoctrination is what others accuse the parents of doing when they disagree with what the parents are teaching.
So, there is no way to raise open minded children?

Isn't it better to teach them strength of conviction? Why should a Christian be forced to teach their children Islam? Why should a Muslim be forced to teach their children Wicca? Why should an Atheist read the Bible to their children?

No, that makes no sense. No sense whatsoever. It is the parent's job to teach the child their way, it is up to the child, upon reaching adulthood, to decide whether or not to branch away or continue the path.

An open mind can become an open sewer without guidance.
you know I agree, but I thought maybe she was right and I was brainwashed, although if you say so..... then it's much more credible. ;)

Teaching is what parents do for their children. Indoctrination is what others accuse the parents of doing when they disagree with what the parents are teaching.

Possibly sigworthy.

So, there is no way to raise open minded children?

Yes, of course. Quite simple really. Got 18 years? I'll show you how.

Sorry ... overcome with the giggles ... I have no response here ...

My new plans of shutting you up with the means available to me, in lieu of the gagging thrusts I'd like, are finally coming to fruition in this seminal moment.

Again, Texan born and raised, and I have never once in my life ever said the Pledge of Allegiance. It is a choice, even in a child.

Still, the fact that people do get up, put their hand over their heart, and recite those words that mean jack shit, is a form of indoctrination. It is customary to do so, but you arent forced.

you know I agree, but I thought maybe she was right and I was brainwashed, although if you say so..... then it's much more credible. ;)

NS General has brainwashed us all .... a little.

Yes, of course. Quite simple really. Got 18 years? I'll show you how.
You'll be my Mommy!!!???

So, there is no way to raise open minded children?

Certain ways of looking into the world are already closed to you as soon as you're born. So no, it is not entirely possible.

My new plans of shutting you up with the means available to me, in lieu of the gagging thrusts I'd like, are finally coming to fruition in this seminal moment.

I actually just heard a rimshot in my head.

Certain ways of looking into the world are already closed to you as soon as you're born. So no, it is not entirely possible.
That sucks...

Certain ways of looking into the world are already closed to you as soon as you're born. So no, it is not entirely possible.
that's interesting, please explain.

Still, the fact that people do get up, put their hand over their heart, and recite those words that mean jack shit, is a form of indoctrination. It is customary to do so, but you arent forced.
custom is compleatly different that indoctination

Isn't it better to teach them strength of conviction? Why should a Christian be forced to teach their children Islam? Why should a Muslim be forced to teach their children Wicca? Why should an Atheist read the Bible to their children?

"be forced" - nice try... I said SHOULD, NOT FORCED... READ BETTER next time

What's the point then? It just becomes a breeding race at that point. Children should DECIDE to follow a religion. That you teach them only that religion and they follow it is pointless and rather ignorant.

Yes, in the ideal world, a Christian should teach their children Islam, an Atheist should teach their kid Christianity. That way, their child will be able to make a FREE informed decision. If you teach them one thing, then they aren't free in that respect.

Your next paragraph states that they get to decide when they're old enough. You are effectively denying them a free well-informed decision in this aspect until it may already be too late.

I actually just heard a rimshot in my head.

Curious, as I usually aim for the other end.

Certain ways of looking into the world are already closed to you as soon as you're born. So no, it is not entirely possible.
but depending on how one is raised, you can open those areas or at least give them a glimpse of those closed areas.

NS General has brainwashed us all .... a little.



Washed is too clean sounding, it doesnt ring true.

Teaching is what parents do for their children. Indoctrination is what others accuse the parents of doing when they disagree with what the parents are teaching.
This is usually how the term is used. However...

So, there is no way to raise open minded children?
This is perhaps more relevant.

And open-minded child has not been indoctrinated. Every other child has been (or else hasn't been taught anything). With children, all teaching becomes indoctrination if it isn't tempered with uncertainty, because children just naturally believe the stuff adults tell them.

But on many issues, adults don't really know the answers, so we need to tell them that.

that's interesting, please explain.

Got 19 years? That's how long it took me to come to that conclusion and conclude it made sense.

"be forced" - nice try... I said SHOULD, NOT FORCED... READ BETTER next time

What's the point then? It just becomes a breeding race at that point. Children should DECIDE to follow a religion. That you teach them only that religion and they follow it is pointless and rather ignorant.

Yes, in the ideal world, a Christian should teach their children Islam, an Atheist should teach their kid Christianity. That way, their child will be able to make a FREE informed decision. If you teach them one thing, then they aren't free in that respect.

Your next paragraph states that they get to decide when they're old enough. You are effectively denying them a free well-informed decision in this aspect until it may already be too late.
but if you can not be unbiased when teaching the other religions why teach them at all? aren't you doing the children a disservice by teaching them something you can't be unbiased about?


and how would you while holding on to your beliefs present an unbiased picture of everything else? should we all be agnostic, forced beliefs for the sake of the children?

Got 19 years? That's how long it took me to come to that conclusion and conclude it made sense.
I am a fast learner, give me the notes and I will put together the novel.

"be forced" - nice try... I said SHOULD, NOT FORCED... READ BETTER next time

What's the point then? It just becomes a breeding race at that point. Children should DECIDE to follow a religion. That you teach them only that religion and they follow it is pointless and rather ignorant.

Yes, in the ideal world, a Christian should teach their children Islam, an Atheist should teach their kid Christianity. That way, their child will be able to make a FREE informed decision. If you teach them one thing, then they aren't free in that respect.

Your next paragraph states that they get to decide when they're old enough. You are effectively denying them a free well-informed decision in this aspect until it may already be too late.sorry, won't happen.

a christian teaching Islam? can you imagine those lessons of Islam as given by Pat Robertson or Robert Phelps?

Atheist giving lessons in Christianity? the mind boggles at all the negativity that will be fed in any of those situations...

yes, as they grow, people can make choices to follow a belief or set of beliefs... or not.

Yes, in the ideal world, a Christian should teach their children Islam, an Atheist should teach their kid Christianity. That way, their child will be able to make a FREE informed decision. If you teach them one thing, then they aren't free in that respect.

I don't think you need to go that far. If you teach the child abstract reasoning and logic skills, she should be able to see the problems with a given religious doctrine. You should encourage those sorts of questions should you be teaching such a doctrine.

I don't think it's necessary that you teach the child all things in the universe - but I think it is important that you present what you do teach in a fair and balanced way. Specifically, this religion is based on faith, which itself has no basis in reason. Do with it what you will.

but if you can not be unbiased when teaching the other religions why teach them at all? aren't you doing the children a disservice by teaching them something you can't be unbiased about?

You're doing them a greater disservice by not even teaching them alternatives. You should be unbiased just as much as you should do this. If you have decided to teach your children religion and open them up to all the ideas, including those that are not your own, then I'm sure you'll do your best to be unbiased.

I believe this is best for the children. If you would too, you would do your best to be unbiased, so let's not talk about the bias, and let's talk about whether this is best.

and how would you while holding on to your beliefs present an unbiased picture of everything else?

See above.

should we all be agnostic, forced beliefs for the sake of the children?

I don't understand the question... reword please.

But if you say there is no other truth than this equation, could it not be considered indoctrination?
Nope. The truth of the equation is absolute precisely due to the fact that its origin lies in the completely arbitrary nature of language and convention.

When we come to talk about 2s and +s and =s, we have decided what we mean by those symbols. We could choose to use them for other things, or use other symbols for the same concepts, but then we would be incapable of communicating without first sharing protocol.

Mathematics is not teaching us that "This is what it must be"; it is teaching us that "This is how we choose to represent a particular idea". And the ideas, rather than inventions, are themselves just formal descriptions of empirical observations that any child could and does make. In short, maths is about giving children another way to communicate with each other.

You could, if you wish, create a system where the symbols mean something completely different. But that's not the system we choose to use. And within the system we choose to use, 2+2=4.

"be forced" - nice try... I said SHOULD, NOT FORCED... READ BETTER next time

What's the point then? It just becomes a breeding race at that point. Children should DECIDE to follow a religion. That you teach them only that religion and they follow it is pointless and rather ignorant.

Yes, in the ideal world, a Christian should teach their children Islam, an Atheist should teach their kid Christianity. That way, their child will be able to make a FREE informed decision. If you teach them one thing, then they aren't free in that respect.

Your next paragraph states that they get to decide when they're old enough. You are effectively denying them a free well-informed decision in this aspect until it may already be too late.

here is the thing at a young age children do not truly understand what religion is. i was raised a christion and whan i was old enough to start asking questions my parents answered them as best they could. they told me we dont wat you to be a christion because we are we want you to be some thing christian or other wise be cause its waht you want. they always told me what they thought and why they thought what they did but they alway encorage me to figure things our for my self. so here is the question am I "indoctionated"?

Got 19 years? That's how long it took me to come to that conclusion and conclude it made sense.

But now that you know the answer, you can filter out all the dead ends on the way to the conclusion.

You're doing them a greater disservice by not even teaching them alternatives. You should be unbiased just as much as you should do this. If you have decided to teach your children religion and open them up to all the ideas, including those that are not your own, then I'm sure you'll do your best to be unbiased.
how exactly would one approach the teaching of all religions when your own religion states that some of the others are dead wrong? how do you approach this without bias?

it's the same as in highschool when we studied Communism, it became "bad" because it wasn't capitalism. How would I objectively teach religion to them without making the other ones "bad"?

and how do I not have a bias of any sort while keeping my own religious beliefs?

sorry, won't happen.

a christian teaching Islam? can you imagine those lessons of Islam as given by Pat Robertson or Robert Phelps?

Atheist giving lessons in Christianity? the mind boggles at all the negativity that will be fed in any of those situations...

yes, as they grow, people can make choices to follow a belief or set of beliefs... or not.

I'm sorry but you're giving in to religious ignorance.
"These are my beliefs about God and they are the only ones that are true."
"My God is the only true God and all other religions are ignorant and stupid."

Yes, this is not practical. This is going on the assumption that the parent is not a blindly devout follower of a particular religion.

So these Christian people that you just mentioned are completely stuck-up in their beliefs and won't budge. I don't care about them. Obviously this won't work for them because they will not accept any opinion other than their own.

Making your kid just as blindly devout to your religion by exposing them only to it is meaningless. You think your religion is best? Then teach your kid the possibilities and let him choose it. You can't afford him to not choose your religion? Then teach him only your religion and close their eyes to other possibilities.

here is the thing at a young age children do not truly understand what religion is. i was raised a christion and whan i was old enough to start asking questions my parents answered them as best they could. they told me we dont wat you to be a christion because we are we want you to be some thing christian or other wise be cause its waht you want. they always told me what they thought and why they thought what they did but they alway encorage me to figure things our for my self. so here is the question am I "indoctionated"?

I think they did their best. Whether you're indoctrinated or not...

Did they talk to you about any other religions? Did they explain Christianity to you?

If they only taught you Christianity and told you to "make your own decisions" and "figure things out for yourself", you still would have insufficient information to make your decision. Christianity and nothing would be the only choices you had...

I'm sorry but you're giving in to religious ignorance.
"These are my beliefs about God and they are the only ones that are true."
"My God is the only true God and all other religions are ignorant and stupid."

Yes, this is not practical. This is going on the assumption that the parent is not a blindly devout follower of a particular religion.

So these Christian people that you just mentioned are completely stuck-up in their beliefs and won't budge. I don't care about them. Obviously this won't work for them because they will not accept any opinion other than their own.

Making your kid just as blindly devout to your religion by exposing them only to it is meaningless. You think your religion is best? Then teach your kid the possibilities and let him choose it. You can't afford him to not choose your religion? Then teach him only your religion and close their eyes to other possibilities.

which is basically my point, I can either believe what I do and be a bad parent (in your eyes) or give up my religion and be a good one.

how exactly would one approach the teaching of all religions when your own religion states that some of the others are dead wrong? how do you approach this without bias?

it's the same as in highschool when we studied Communism, it became "bad" because it wasn't capitalism. How would I objectively teach religion to them without making the other ones "bad"?

and how do I not have a bias of any sort while keeping my own religious beliefs?

just tell your kids what you belive and why when they ask questions give them an honist answer, even if its " you know i dont know" or" well i think that way... ...becaues..." no matter how lame it sounds they may keep pushing for answeres but always remind them that its waht YOU think, encorage thme to find out for them selvs

I was wondering where the line is between teaching your children and indoctrinating them?

Can people give me an example of indoctrination?

I got into a discussion today with someone IRL about this and I am still confused. You guys talk about not indoctrinating kids a lot though, so I thought I would get a wide variety of information here.
Indoctrination would be limiting their access to any information about a given topic except what you constantly drilled into them.

I'm sorry but you're giving in to religious ignorance.
"These are my beliefs about God and they are the only ones that are true."
"My God is the only true God and all other religions are ignorant and stupid."and with those quotes, you've proven why A christian should Not be teaching Islam, or Atheists teaching any form of religion, and what not.

Yes, this is not practical. This is going on the assumption that the parent is not a blindly devout follower of a particular religion.that's a mightly powerful Assumption there. it's not the parents place to teach any religion outside the ones they follow. or athiesm if they don't follow any. if their child has a question concerning other religions, they need to seek answers with people who studied that religion. anything less and they will be getting a biased answer.

So these Christian people that you just mentioned are completely stuck-up in their beliefs and won't budge. I don't care about them. Obviously this won't work for them because they will not accept any opinion other than their own.Pat Robertson and Robert Phelps? you never heard of them?

Making your kid just as blindly devout to your religion by exposing them only to it is meaningless. You think your religion is best? Then teach your kid the possibilities and let him choose it. You can't afford him to not choose your religion? Then teach him only your religion and close their eyes to other possibilities.you can teach them your religion and beliefs, without closing them to others religions. That's how some of my Christian friends found God while living with Devout Athiests and how I am a Christian while being raised as a Buddist.

In raising children ( or now, grandchildren ) I always taught them that nothing was immune to being questioned or discussed. The best question children have is "why?"

how exactly would one approach the teaching of all religions when your own religion states that some of the others are dead wrong? how do you approach this without bias?

As in you the parent? Then you are giving in to closing your mind, and as I said before, this wouldn't work for you because you can't open yourself to new ideas.

Now if the problem is that each religion states that, then you can say that. It probably wouldn't make a difference though. You can say at the end "all of these religions believe they are the only truth and the others are wrong", but as you can see, this belief is pretty meaningless.

it's the same as in highschool when we studied Communism, it became "bad" because it wasn't capitalism. How would I objectively teach religion to them without making the other ones "bad"?

By doing your best. You tell them what each religion teaches. You tell them the history of the religions. Now that I think about it, there's little room for bias, unless you are going to withhold information (i.e. Christianity is the only true religion, but you neglect to say that all the others say the same thing).

and how do I not have a bias of any sort while keeping my own religious beliefs?

By wanting the best for your kid. You could also go on the logic that if they choose your religion out of free will, it will be so much more meaningful.

You'll be my Mommy!!!???
LMAO! OMG, Keru! NOW you've gone and done it! :D

but if you can not be unbiased when teaching the other religions why teach them at all? aren't you doing the children a disservice by teaching them something you can't be unbiased about?

and how would you while holding on to your beliefs present an unbiased picture of everything else? should we all be agnostic, forced beliefs for the sake of the children?
Not at all, IMHO. Teach your children what you believe to be true, but always give them permission to question it in every aspect. Not only will you raise thoughtful, insightful children, but you will most likely raise children who adopt at least some of what you believe because they learn to respect your intellectual honesty.

I think they did their best. Whether you're indoctrinated or not...

Did they talk to you about any other religions? Did they explain Christianity to you?

If they only taught you Christianity and told you to "make your own decisions" and "figure things out for yourself", you still would have insufficient information to make your decision. Christianity and nothing would be the only choices you had...
they did talk to me about other realigions and encouraged me to go talk to the local leaders of the verious religions to get answeres to the questions that they did not know.
and yes they did talk to me about christanity and why they belived what they did

Smunkee, you can only do what you feel is best for your kids. Education, indoctrination, it's all so subjective as to be practically meaningless. Your friend was out of line, subjecting you to such a rant. You're already doing what you think is best for them. Teach them your values - who else's would you teach them? Just, if they question you, try not to flame them. It could turn out to be a learning experience for you, too.

:)

which is basically my point, I can either believe what I do and be a bad parent (in your eyes) or give up my religion and be a good one.
Don't second-guess yourself with what you teach your children. Teach them what you want, however way you want to. if you start second-guessing yourself, or become too worried on what others will think, your children will suffer for it.

Don't second-guess yourself with what you teach your children. Teach them what you want, however way you want to. if you start second-guessing yourself, or become too worried on what others will think, your children will suffer for it.
*pats JuNii on the back* Nicely put.

So, where is the line between instilling values in your children and indoctrinating them?

we pray before meals, is that indoctrinating them? how about Bible studies?

what if I tell them I think that Michael Savage is a jerk?

what if they ask me what I believe about heaven and hell? do I tell them? what if it's not "nice"?
That line is about your attitude rather than about your exact words. If you find it unthinkable or wrong for them to refuse praying or disagree about mr Savage's jerkdom then you might be indoctrinating them, otherwise not to worry.

And if your kids come to you and ask about your belief, and understand what they ask, then you are certainly doing something right: You are not indoctrinating them about religion. And you have a good opportunity to teach them something about it.

Don't second-guess yourself with what you teach your children. Teach them what you want, however way you want to. if you start second-guessing yourself, or become too worried on what others will think, your children will suffer for it.
I agree, except that I would add: Always give them permission to question anything and everything. :)

and with those quotes, you've proven why A christian should Not be teaching Islam, or Atheists teaching any form of religion, and what not.

No, I've proven why a close-minded person blind to other opinions and ideas should not be doing this. Unless you want to call all Christians, Muslims, Atheists, etc. that.

that's a mightly powerful Assumption there.

Well, we can get nowhere when people do not accept the views of the opposition in any way, shape or form. It's pointless to even try really.

it's not the parents place to teach any religion outside the ones they follow. or athiesm if they don't follow any. if their child has a question concerning other religions, they need to seek answers with people who studied that religion. anything less and they will be getting a biased answer.

That's what we're discussing. I believe it IS the parents' place to teach all manners of religion. If they wish to employ different priests from each religion (and maybe friends for atheism and agnosticism) to make sure the children receive unbiased versions, then so be it. However, the parents should be capable of presenting a religion without bias.

Pat Robertson and Robert Phelps? you never heard of them?

Sounds kinda familiar. Either way, I don't watch extremist opinions.

you can teach them your religion and beliefs, without closing them to others religions.

Except you ARE closing them to other religions by not teaching them. How will they know them if you do not teach them? And if they CAN know them without you teaching them, then your particular religion will enjoy a strong bias.

That's how some of my Christian friends found God while living with Devout Athiests and how I am a Christian while being raised as a Buddist.

You got lucky to find your true faith. What about the people who just blindly follow what their parents teach them, and never question it? They never had a chance to choose a religion.

Not at all, IMHO. Teach your children what you believe to be true, but always give them permission to question it in every aspect. Not only will you raise thoughtful, insightful children, but you will most likely raise children who adopt at least some of what you believe because they learn to respect your intellectual honesty.

They'll still be exposed to only one religion. The only thing that can happen is they'll find some flaws or "I don't know"s.

they did talk to me about other realigions and encouraged me to go talk to the local leaders of the verious religions to get answeres to the questions that they did not know.
and yes they did talk to me about christanity and why they belived what they did

Then they were excellent parents.

which is basically my point, I can either believe what I do and be a bad parent (in your eyes) or give up my religion and be a good one.

I understand. I'll think about a reply to this.

They'll still be exposed to only one religion. The only thing that can happen is they'll find some flaws or "I don't know"s.
this is where i have to say your wrong in thoses "I dont knows" they will see and learn like they are suposed to that mommy and daddy arnt always correct that they can make mistakes too. this in its self is a really importent lession and if the kid is truly interested they will go to some one elce and ask or get on the computer or go to the library. kids arnt stupid they will get teh answer if they really want it

They'll still be exposed to only one religion. The only thing that can happen is they'll find some flaws or "I don't know"s.
And this is a bad thing???

They'll still be exposed to only one religion. The only thing that can happen is they'll find some flaws or "I don't know"s.
It isn't actually practical for parents to teach their children about all religions or probably even a few, let alone "employing different priests." To quote an eminent educator, Dr. William Cosby, "Parents aren't interested in justice, parents are interested in peace and quiet." You teach them what you believe in and you remember not to punish them for questioning that teaching, if they do.

No, I've proven why a close-minded person blind to other opinions and ideas should not be doing this. Unless you want to call all Christians, Muslims, Atheists, etc. that.ahh I was trying to show why that shouldn't happen. the information given would be slanted to make the other look worse than it actually is. the ones who should be teaching religions are those that live those religions. that was what I am trying to say. I would be happy to teach my children how to live a christian life, but I won't teach them anything about Islam because 1) my knowledge is limited, and 2) my bias will unfairly taint what I try to teach. that was what I was trying to get across.



Well, we can get nowhere when people do not accept the views of the opposition in any way, shape or form. It's pointless to even try really.which is why I stated, to teach them to consider other points of view. it was when it was said that one person should teach the other point of view that I laughed at.

That's what we're discussing. I believe it IS the parents' place to teach all manners of religion. If they wish to employ different priests from each religion (and maybe friends for atheism and agnosticism) to make sure the children receive unbiased versions, then so be it. However, the parents should be capable of presenting a religion without bias.parents can teach the beliefs (religion and otherwise) that they follow. they shouldn't teach anything about any Religion or beliefs that they don't follow of believe in.

Sounds kinda familiar. Either way, I don't watch extremist opinions.OMG! you are indocrtrinated!!! :D [/joking]

Except you ARE closing them to other religions by not teaching them. How will they know them if you do not teach them? And if they CAN know them without you teaching them, then your particular religion will enjoy a strong bias.because, I (or the parents) are not the ONLY source of instructions and POV that a child will encounter. there are Freinds, their families, teachers and even religious leaders that can offer POV's that are not similar to mine. the key point is how to answer questions that your child puts to you.

You got lucky to find your true faith. What about the people who just blindly follow what their parents teach them, and never question it? They never had a chance to choose a religion.that is, unfortunatly, out of my control. I can only witness to them when i see those people.

this is where i have to say your wrong in thoses "I dont knows" they will see and learn like they are suposed to that mommy and daddy arnt always correct that they can make mistakes too. this in its self is a really importent lession and if the kid is truly interested they will go to some one elce and ask or get on the computer or go to the library. kids arnt stupid they will get teh answer if they really want it
Exactly, especially if they are encouraged to do so.

Raising five children taught me more than all the formal education I ever had. One of the most important things it taught me is that everyone, even those raised by the same parents, approaches things in their own way. One of my children bought into my wife's Christian fundamentalism hook, line and sinker. The rest decided that it was a good thing to be in touch with your spiritual side but to always be aware that organized religion has its own ax to grind. :)

And this is a bad thing???

The "exposed to only one religion" thing is. How will they make a well-informed decision when their information consists of only "religion X" and "not religion X".

I was wondering where the line is between teaching your children and indoctrinating them?

Can people give me an example of indoctrination?

I got into a discussion today with someone IRL about this and I am still confused. You guys talk about not indoctrinating kids a lot though, so I thought I would get a wide variety of information here.


Simple. You teach your kids.
Someone who disagrees with your values then claims you are indoctrinating them. ;)

It isn't actually practical for parents to teach their children about all religions or probably even a few, let alone "employing different priests." To quote an eminent educator, Dr. William Cosby, "Parents aren't interested in justice, parents are interested in peace and quiet." You teach them what you believe in and you remember not to punish them for questioning that teaching, if they do.
I am of the opinion that exposing children to people from all walks of life gives them a unique insight into the ways other people think and believe. Invite other adults into your home and don't place restrictions based on either religious or political affiliation. You'll be pleasantly surprised at the results. :)

*snip*

I understand and concede the point that parents can argue religions other than their own without significant bias.

"You filthy heathen hippie! You will get out in the barn and scream the Lord's Prayer and the Pledge of Allegiance until Jesus comes and lets you out!"

Yeah ... I'd say that's a good one.
That's not indoctrination, that's child abuse.

The "exposed to only one religion" thing is. How will they make a well-informed decision when their information consists of only "religion X" and "not religion X".
Ok. I think I misunderstood what you were saying. I think it's pefectly all right to teach your children what you believe, but to make sure they know to question everything for themselves, including your religion. Exposure to other adults who believe differently, and permission to learn and grow and study anything which piques their interest should take care of any lack of information. We had friends who were Jewish and Buddist and, as I recall, even one Pagan, when our kids were growing up. You would have been stunned at some of the questions they asked, as were our friends. :D

I think it's pefectly all right to teach your children what you believe, but to make sure they know to question everything for themselves, including your religion.

I think in the end, it's the best thing we can get at. Thinking for myself, I'd have a hard time teaching Christianity (for example) myself to my kid when I think it's all a bunch of logical inconsistencies.

Ok. Here in the US, students are "asked" to routinely stand up every morning before class and recite the pledge of indoctr...allegiance. Because of free speech, you dont HAVE to, but apparently schools can suspend you anyway, as was the case with my friend.


And he didn't contact the ACLU? Because that is clearly illegal and unconstitutional.

make sure they know to question everything for themselves
This, I think, it the most important lesson. But, you could argue that I'm indoctrinating them with my rationality in an attempt to make them hold no beliefs at all.

Still, the fact that people do get up, put their hand over their heart, and recite those words that mean jack shit, is a form of indoctrination. It is customary to do so, but you arent forced.

Perhaps they mean jack shit to you, but something more to the people who voluntarily recite them?

Just a thought.

I think in the end, it's the best thing we can get at. Thinking for myself, I'd have a hard time teaching Christianity (for example) myself to my kid when I think it's all a bunch of logical inconsistencies.
Heh! My wife taught our children Christianity, and I gave them permission to think and question. With one exception, they have taken both to heart and are nominally Christian with overtones of personal spirituality, but they question everything! It use to drive their Sunday School teachers crazy! :D

I've always maintained that the unexamined belief is actually no belief at all. If your religion can't stand up to scrutiny, then one of two things is true: either you don't understand your religion, or you need to dump it.

They'll still be exposed to only one religion. The only thing that can happen is they'll find some flaws or "I don't know"s.

You assume that children are unable to use a library, an internet connection, or ask teachers and friends.

To assume that children ONLY find things out from their parents is either naive or patronizing.

Heh! My wife taught our children Christianity, and I gave them permission to think and question. With one exception, they have taken both to heart and are nominally Christian with overtones of personal spirituality, but they question everything! It use to drive their Sunday School teachers crazy! :D

I've always maintained that the unexamined belief is actually no belief at all. If your religion can't stand up to scrutiny, then one of two things is true: either you don't understand your religion, or you need to dump it.

No "belief" can stand up to vigorous logical scrutiny.

You assume that children are unable to use a library, an internet connection, or ask teachers and friends.

To assume that children ONLY find things out from their parents is either naive or patronizing.
You missed out Television; which, in some of the neighbourhood kids I used to be aware of, seemed to have replaced the role of the library, parent and teacher in one go.

No "belief" can stand up to vigorous logical scrutiny.
Perhaps not. Method to my madness, eh? :D

You missed out Television; which, in some of the neighbourhood kids I used to be aware of, seemed to have replaced the role of the library, parent and teacher in one go.
Televisions have pretty things in them.

You missed out Television; which, in some of the neighbourhood kids I used to be aware of, seemed to have replaced the role of the library, parent and teacher in one go.
Which is why I threw ours out when our kids were little. :D

I can either believe what I do and be a bad parent (in your eyes) or give up my religion and be a good one.

That's not an impossible position. If my standard for determining good parenting is a reasoned and balanced presentation on all issues, devout religious belief may well make that impossible. And thus, all strongly religious parents would necessarily be bad parents.

No "belief" can stand up to vigorous logical scrutiny.
Except when such "belief" is analysed in the light of being entirely allegorical. It is astoundingly difficult to criticise a religious man's beliefs when he agrees that the events he believes in never happened and that God cannot really exist, but that he holds true to their messages and advice nonetheless.

That's not an impossible position. If my standard for determining good parenting is a reasoned and balanced presentation on all issues, devout religious belief may well make that impossible. And thus, all strongly religious parents would necessarily be bad parents.
so then what do you do? have the government take the kids away of any religious people? isn't that like oh..... I don't know against the first amendment?

Which is why I threw ours out when our kids were little. :D
Good move. I wonder, though, if my generation may need to throw out our PCs on our kids...

You missed out Television; which, in some of the neighbourhood kids I used to be aware of, seemed to have replaced the role of the library, parent and teacher in one go.

Conceded. ;)

I was wondering where the line is between teaching your children and indoctrinating them?

Can people give me an example of indoctrination?

I got into a discussion today with someone IRL about this and I am still confused. You guys talk about not indoctrinating kids a lot though, so I thought I would get a wide variety of information here.

In the sand. :cool:

Ok. Here in the US, students are "asked" to routinely stand up every morning before class and recite the pledge of indoctr...allegiance. Because of free speech, you dont HAVE to, but apparently schools can suspend you anyway, as was the case with my friend.

As a child, there was a chance my family was going to have to move to Denver (I was 13). I found myself hoping that would happen specifically so I could refuse to pledge allegiance to your flag (since I'm not an American, why would I so pledge?).

Except when such "belief" is analysed in the light of being entirely allegorical. It is astoundingly difficult to criticise a religious man's beliefs when he agrees that the events he believes in never happened and that God cannot really exist, but that he holds true to their messages and advice nonetheless.
Actually, primitive Christianity ( ante-organized religion ) was a very peaceful and positive religion. On balance, a well-grounded belief in Christianity isn't, IMHO, a "bad thing."

Except when such "belief" is analysed in the light of being entirely allegorical. It is astoundingly difficult to criticise a religious man's beliefs when he agrees that the events he believes in never happened and that God cannot really exist, but that he holds true to their messages and advice nonetheless.

But then he doesn't really believe the religion - he just agrees with its life lessons.

Good move. I wonder, though, if my generation may need to throw out our PCs on our kids...
Nahh. The Internet is at least interactive and provides a wealth of information ( and MISinformation! ) for those who want to pursue it.

so then what do you do? have the government take the kids away of any religious people? isn't that like oh..... I don't know against the first amendment?

No. People should be allowed to be bad parents. And others should be allowed to criticise them.

I never claimed I held that position - just that it wasn't impossible to hold.

But then he doesn't really believe the religion - he just agrees with its life lessons.
He believes in the lessons, and that may be more than enough for him to have faith in.

He believes in the lessons, and that may be more than enough for him to have faith in.

But unless he believes that those lessons are representations of real things (like objective moral truths), then he's not really holding a belief. He's just behaving a certain way because he prefers it.

Ok I'm ending this debate here and now:

All you have to do is teach your children to read and give them unrestricted access to books. The rest will fall into place.

A true teacher is not someone who tries to explain their vision to you, but rather invites you to stand next to them and see it for yourself.

Ok I'm ending this debate here and now:

All you have to do is teach your children to read and give them unrestricted access to books. The rest will fall into place.

A true teacher is not someone who tries to explain their vision to you, but rather invites you to stand next to them and see it for yourself.
thread murderer!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (j/k)

I'd say Eut has the best idea.
Just let them question everything.
(I'll add if they want to know something about a particular religion/ideology, give them or direct them to that information, depending on how much you know about it and how unbiased you think you can be. A hint:If the word "evil" comes up during the disscussion, you're biased.)

One person's teaching is another's indoctrination. The thing is, kids are generally smarter than adults will credit. They will question things. The smart parent teaches kids his/her values but does not respond to questions challenging those values with answers like, "because I said so," or "because the Bible says so." All answers like that do is drive the kids further away. Intelligent questions deserve intelligent answers. If you don't know the answers, kids will respect an honest "I don't know" more than any cobbled up bunch of b.s. - and they will know b.s. when they hear it.

Ok, how's this for the line:

Teaching: showing a child an apple

Indoctrination: showing a child an apple and saying "this is an apple"

Ok, how's this for the line:

Teaching: showing a child an apple

Indoctrination: showing a child an apple and saying "this is an apple"

How is naming something indoctrination?

How about this:

teaching: showing a child an apple and telling the child what it is.

indoctrination: telling the child that the apple is evil because Eve ate one.

How is naming something indoctrination?

How about this:

teaching: showing a child an apple and telling the child what it is.

indoctrination: telling the child that the apple is evil because Eve ate one.

Naming something is indoctrination because it presents an interpretation. One could just as easily show a child an apple and state "This is a projectile weapon."

If I had to draw a line, once one goes from presenting information to presenting interpretations of information, one has gone from teaching to indoctrination. It's not my intention to make any value judgements on indoctrination though. A benevolent dictatorship could be a much better system of government than a democracy, but the problem with dictatorships is that they are subject to abuse moreso than democracy. The same goes for indoctrination.

Naming something is indoctrination because it presents an interpretation. One could just as easily show a child an apple and state "This is a projectile weapon."

If I had to draw a line, once one goes from presenting information to presenting interpretations of information, one has gone from teaching to indoctrination. It's not my intention to make any value judgements on indoctrination though. A benevolent dictatorship could be a much better system of government than a democracy, but the problem with dictatorships is that they are subject to abuse moreso than democracy. The same goes for indoctrination.

So, language is indoctrination. We should go through life having no reference points for fear that these reference points might indoctrinate. I'd rather have names otherwise I'd spend the rest of my life pointing and nodding.

So, language is indoctrination. We should go through life having no reference points for fear that these reference points might indoctrinate. I'd rather have names otherwise I'd spend the rest of my life pointing and nodding.

Pointing and nodding would be "words" in a language. Maybe the original question of this post is flawed. The question should not be where is the line between teaching and indoctrination, but when does indoctrination go from being helpful to harmful?

If you don't like your children to be indoctrinated then you should probably keep them out of the U.S. public school system. Free thought and coming up with your own opinions and expressing them are stamped out mercilessly there. IMHO.

If you don't like your children to be indoctrinated then you should probably keep them out of the U.S. public school system. Free thought and coming up with your own opinions and expressing them are stamped out mercilessly there. IMHO.
oh, I know it, that's one of the reasons I homeschool, people though accuse me of indoctrinating them just because I homeschool, do you think they are indoctrinated to think that all homeschooling is bad? LOL

If you don't like your children to be indoctrinated then you should probably keep them out of the U.S. public school system. Free thought and coming up with your own opinions and expressing them are stamped out mercilessly there. IMHO.

:rolleyes:

Where do you go to school?

An example of indoctrination?

Teaching your children about the future is indoctrination, as you are trying to implant in them your views and your presumptions.

Here, for example, kids are told now that the United States of America is going to invade us soon, trying to expanse their empire and get a grip on our oil, and then they must prepare and train to resist the foreign invasion as soon as it happens. They even have a subject now called "Pre-military education". That kind of foreseeing is an example of indoctrination. You are not teaching them facts, but assumptions.

I was wondering where the line is between teaching your children and indoctrinating them?
Can people give me an example of indoctrination?

I got into a discussion today with someone IRL about this and I am still confused. You guys talk about not indoctrinating kids a lot though, so I thought I would get a wide variety of information here.


Indoctronation is teaching one side of a purely subjective question as "true".

If I were to be teaching kids something about politics it would be wrong to say "And the Democrats are right". It would probaby even be wrong to say "And I agree with the Democrats" from a purely educational standpoint (as the teacher, you have the responsiblity to not forcefeed opinion to your students). In my experience it is best to play the devil's advocate on issues (especially when they agree with you) so that they don't necesseraly know what you think. That particular exercise not only teaches them to look for holes in their own arguement, but keeps them guessing.