NationStates Jolt Archive

To those with small impressionable children, don't back off because parenting will work. My oldest daughter (14 yo) has been working as volunteer staff at a summer camp this year, she is gone M-F and comes home every other weekend to resupply. She told me the following tale this weekend, made my heart swell.

She and some of the counsellors were sitting around after the campers had gone home a week ago on Friday unwinding and talking about various subjects when the conversation turned to the GWOT. One of her mushminded friends spouted the oft repeated mantra of "War has never solved anything" and my daughter said that she heard herself repeating me before she even thought about what she was saying "yes except for American Independence, slavery, fascism, nazism, and communism, war has never solved anything". She said they all just stopped talking and stared at her until one of them said "Hey, your right". She said she was very embarrassed and it was all my fault. I said "Bwahahahahahah damn, I hate that Bwahahahahahaha"

I think I'm a good kid, but my brother is an obnoxious, egotistical, bossy brat. I don't know where my parents went wrong.

Then they all smoked crack. :)

Well done! Though strictly speaking the war on Communism was an American thing and the Vietnam war is nothing to be proud of.

Then they all smoked crack. :)

Marijuana seems to be a lot more popular at camp than crack.

Marijuana seems to be a lot more popular at camp than crack.

I thought about typing that, but there's just something bout crack that rolls off the tongue.

"Are you on crack?" "What kind of crack have you been smoking?" See?

Marijuana seems to be a lot more popular at camp than crack.
Then you've been going to the wrong camps.

1. communism, particular the USSR, wasnt beaten by war, they went bankrupt, but communism still survives

2. Nazism, and fascism, wasnt beaten by war, it still exists, quite a lot actualy. The german/italian expansion throughout europe and who knows what more was stopped

3. Slavery wasnt realy the point of the independence war (kinda hints n the name, eh?), but freed slaves turned out to be a real good recruiting ground for soldiers, and it was kinda hard to get them to turn in their weapons. Call it a nice side-effect if you want, the real issue was brittish influence over America. Also, slavery ended only in name

4. Independent USA did arrive through war.


You can fight aggression and sometimes oppression with war, but not ideas. So yes, war solves the minor problems in life, but mostly leaves the big issues standing. You can change those only by changing people

1. communism, particular the USSR, wasnt beaten by war, they went bankrupt, but communism still survives

The former USSR couldn't keep up with military expenditures during the Cold War, so it was a war, and we won.

2. Nazism, and fascism, wasnt beaten by war, it still exists, quite a lot actualy. The german/italian expansion throughout europe and who knows what more was stopped
Looks like the Nazis were defeated to me.

3. Slavery wasnt realy the point of the independence war (kinda hints n the name, eh?), but freed slaves turned out to be a real good recruiting ground for soldiers, and it was kinda hard to get them to turn in their weapons. Call it a nice side-effect if you want, the real issue was brittish influence over America. Also, slavery ended only in name
It's part of a list - our revolution is one item, and slavery is another. You're the one who thinks they are conflated. And slavery ended in the US. Maybe you should visit here and discover that we don't whip our black slaves in the hot sun when they don't pick cotton fast enough.


You can fight aggression and sometimes oppression with war, but not ideas. So yes, war solves the minor problems in life, but mostly leaves the big issues standing. You can change those only by changing people
Or kill them.

4. Independent USA did arrive through war.

But Canada's independance was obtained peacefully. :D

But Canada's independance was obtained peacefully. :D
So that's what is wrong with you Canadians! :p

But Canada's independance was obtained peacefully. :D

Sometimes things happen that way. But it is unlikely that Canada would have obtained its independence by peace if the UK had been unwilling to give it. Just look at Northerrn Ireland.

Sometimes things happen that way. But it is unlikely that Canada would have obtained its independence by peace if the UK had been unwilling to give it. Just look at Northerrn Ireland.
Part of that is Northern Ireland itself, from what I hear. It is fairly divided about which nation to acknowledge.

The former USSR couldn't keep up with military expenditures during the Cold War, so it was a war, and we won.

economic war? good alternative. It still was no war. There are more ways to bankrupt someone, and yes, one of them is an arms race

Looks like the Nazis were defeated to me.

sooo, no more hating or blaming jews, no more neo nazi, old nazis? did you realy defeat the nazi?

you defeated a nation, which was conquering territory, not the idea of the nazi. Most people in that army were just that, soldiers, nothing realy nazi about them. You confuse an ideology with the nation you fought. The USA didnt care about deafeating the Nazi, the germans, or getting involved in that war. It became involved because Japan attacked the US, and Germany, as ally to Japan, declared war too. The USA fought against a nation, not against nazism or fascism

It's part of a list - our revolution is one item, and slavery is another. You're the one who thinks they are conflated. And slavery ended in the US. Maybe you should visit here and discover that we don't whip our black slaves in the hot sun when they don't pick cotton fast enough.

They just had to go through a few decades of virtual slavery, where there were threaths, and hate, and guns, instead of whips. I hope I dont have to elaborate, untill someone refused to stand up in a bus and some guy named king made a big issue about the whole "differences" thing. That doesnt sound like war to me, that's a change in society

And the misconception of the "end of slavery" is so easy to make. It sounds better to say that the independence war was mainly about slavery, and not because the people didnt want to pay taxes to England

Or kill them.

good idea, but where to start? Kill everyone who wants war and there wil be no more war, right? you cant just kill someone because his ideas dont suit you. It's been tried and never realy worked to stomp out the ideas

Part of that is Northern Ireland itself, from what I hear. It is fairly divided about which nation to acknowledge.

yes, the english immigrants prefer england, and their children and children's children too, and the native irishmen (etc etc) prefer ireland

yes, the english immigrants prefer england, and their children and children's children too, and the native irishmen (etc etc) prefer ireland
But it's still their home, too.

Sometimes things happen that way. But it is unlikely that Canada would have obtained its independence by peace if the UK had been unwilling to give it. Just look at Northerrn Ireland.

Why would the UK have given Northern Ireland independence?

After all, even now, only 11%* of the population of Northern Ireland want independence.

Anyhow, the Troubles were fought by the IRA to try and unite Northern Ireland with the Republic of Ireland.

Even today only 22%* of the population of Northern Ireland want to unite with the Republic. So why should the UK have done it?

And the UK has always said that when there is a sufficient majority in favour of unification with the Republic, they will allow it.



*Northern Ireland Life and Times Survey (http://www.ark.ac.uk/nilt/2004/Political_Attitudes/NIRELAND.html)

Even today only 22%* of the population of Northern Ireland want to unite with the Republic. So why should the UK have done it?

And a surprisingly little amount of Southerners want it too.

A more important question? Why the hell did Deep Kimchi change his name again?!:p

Part of that is Northern Ireland itself, from what I hear. It is fairly divided about which nation to acknowledge.

If you call 59% in favour of the UK, 22% in favour of the Republic, 11% in favour of independence, and 9% favouring something else or just not knowing (or caring) "fairly divided".

And a surprisingly little amount of Southerners want it too.

A more important question? Why the hell did Deep Kimchi change his name again?!:p

Sedation Ministry is him?

What's that now...his fourth reincarnation?

Whispering Legs, Sierra BHTP (or something), Deep Kimchi, and now that?

Sedation Ministry is him?

What's that now...his fourth reincarnation?

Whispering Legs, Sierra BHTP (or something), Deep Kimchi, and now that?
Thread style, sig style, post style.... its got his style all over it :D

Thread style, sig style, post style.... its got his style all over it :D

Yea, good point. Very like him. You would think that after three previous accounts he would take the hint...

Why would the UK have given Northern Ireland independence?

After all, even now, only 11%* of the population of Northern Ireland want independence.

Anyhow, the Troubles were fought by the IRA to try and unite Northern Ireland with the Republic of Ireland.

Even today only 22%* of the population of Northern Ireland want to unite with the Republic. So why should the UK have done it?

And the UK has always said that when there is a sufficient majority in favour of unification with the Republic, they will allow it.



*Northern Ireland Life and Times Survey (http://www.ark.ac.uk/nilt/2004/Political_Attitudes/NIRELAND.html)


In order to unify with Ireland, Northern Ireland would have to be released by the UK.

All it takes nowadays is for someone to say that there's a small band of insurgents fighting for a cause (even if everyone else isn't supporting that cause), and a lot of people will say, "oh, if only we gave the insurgents/terrorists what they really want, all of this would stop".

Makes me want to round up a few thousand supporters (it's all I would need), and then pick on any nation I like and get most of the world's leftists on my side. All I would have to do is commit an atrocity once a month against unarmed and uninvolved civilians, and the pundits of the Left would be shouting my praises.

In order to unify with Ireland, Northern Ireland would have to be released by the UK.

....yes. Did you not see the last line of my actual post? "And the UK has always said that when there is a sufficient majority in favour of unification with the Republic, they will allow it."

All it takes nowadays is for someone to say that there's a small band of insurgents fighting for a cause (even if everyone else isn't supporting that cause), and a lot of people will say, "oh, if only we gave the insurgents/terrorists what they really want, all of this would stop".

Makes me want to round up a few thousand supporters (it's all I would need), and then pick on any nation I like and get most of the world's leftists on my side. All I would have to do is commit an atrocity once a month against unarmed and uninvolved civilians, and the pundits of the Left would be shouting my praises.

Sigh.

Don't be an idiot all your life.

Sigh.

Don't be an idiot all your life.

Don't laugh. It worked for Bin Laden.

In order to unify with Ireland, Northern Ireland would have to be released by the UK.

*puts up hand*
Em, we don't want it.


All it takes nowadays is for someone to say that there's a small band of insurgents fighting for a cause (even if everyone else isn't supporting that cause), and a lot of people will say, "oh, if only we gave the insurgents/terrorists what they really want, all of this would stop".

Normally self determination is justified.

Makes me want to round up a few thousand supporters (it's all I would need), and then pick on any nation I like and get most of the world's leftists on my side. All I would have to do is commit an atrocity once a month against unarmed and uninvolved civilians, and the pundits of the Left would be shouting my praises.

Sure. Who's oppressing you?

Don't laugh. It worked for Bin Laden.

Ok, you just keep believing your screwed up version of the world while us sane people carry on...

Sure. Who's oppressing you?

I'm sure if we pick the right government to act against, we'll be plenty oppressed in no time.

I'm sure if we pick the right government to act against, we'll be plenty oppressed in no time.
Nah, you've got it backwards. The oppressed rise up.

Doesn't work the other way- has never- will never.

Nah, you've got it backwards. The oppressed rise up.

Doesn't work the other way- has never- will never.

I guess you'll explain who was oppressing the Taliban after the USSR left Afghanistan and the Taliban were ruling Afghanistan with an iron fist - and how they came to be oppressed by the US enough to sponsor attacks as far back as 1993.

And how the US didn't invade or oppress them in any way until the invasion of Afghanistan after 9-11.

I guess you'll explain who was oppressing the Taliban after the USSR left Afghanistan and the Taliban were ruling Afghanistan with an iron fist
No one. I didn't know the Taliban rose up against their American rulers...

- and how they came to be oppressed by the US enough to sponsor attacks as far back as 1993.

What has sponsoring terrorist attacks got to do with fighting for self determination? They had their country. They ruled. Your earlier analogy of fighting an oppressor to gain your own homeland doesn't quite fit.

If you call 59% in favour of the UK, 22% in favour of the Republic, 11% in favour of independence, and 9% favouring something else or just not knowing (or caring) "fairly divided".
I do.

I guess you'll explain who was oppressing the Taliban after the USSR left Afghanistan and the Taliban were ruling Afghanistan with an iron fist - and how they came to be oppressed by the US enough to sponsor attacks as far back as 1993.

And how the US didn't invade or oppress them in any way until the invasion of Afghanistan after 9-11.

where did *we* involve taliban? nowhere. You pull out a completely unrelated issue to prove your point. Doesnt work that way, sorry

...and my daughter said that she heard herself repeating me before she even thought about what she was saying...

I like to think that children should be taught to think for themselves rather than parot their elders. That they can learn, adapt and not make the same mistakes as the generations before them.

I like to think that children should be taught to think for themselves rather than parot their elders. That they can learn, adapt and not make the same mistakes as the generations before them.
You forget the immortality some parents find in their children.

I like to think that children should be taught to think for themselves rather than parot their elders. That they can learn, adapt and not make the same mistakes as the generations before them.

Seconded. I would be hard-pressed to find a reason to be prouder of a child of mine than if they were to be able to oppose my political beleifs with well-thought-out defense. That said, I'd force them to defend the choices they had made, once they were old enough to do so because they would never grow into their own beleifs if they didn't.

Brainwashing kids is stupid. It makes them into more clones, just like the ones that came before them. That's the last thing we need more of in this world.

I do.

Well, call it what you like, but don't think a situation where there is a clear majority in favour of one thing, with a number of small minorities, with the biggest barely more than 20%, in favour of one or two other things is particularly "fairly divided".

To those with small impressionable children, don't back off because parenting will work. My oldest daughter (14 yo) has been working as volunteer staff at a summer camp this year, she is gone M-F and comes home every other weekend to resupply. She told me the following tale this weekend, made my heart swell.

She and some of the counsellors were sitting around after the campers had gone home a week ago on Friday unwinding and talking about various subjects when the conversation turned to the GWOT. One of her mushminded friends spouted the oft repeated mantra of "War has never solved anything" and my daughter said that she heard herself repeating me before she even thought about what she was saying "yes except for American Independence, slavery, fascism, nazism, and communism, war has never solved anything". She said they all just stopped talking and stared at her until one of them said "Hey, your right". She said she was very embarrassed and it was all my fault. I said "Bwahahahahahah damn, I hate that Bwahahahahahaha"
Naziism and Communism are gone? War didn't "solve" communism because a) there was never any "war" on a communist nation and b) Soviet Russia collapsed due to poor financial management which put them decades behind the capitalist world and unable to compete. Naziism is still alive in xenophobes everywhere. War solved fascism? Oh of course, that is why every country is a perfect democracy or republic where everyone is free and happy. War solved slavery like slavery solved agricultural technological advancement.

I will give you American independence on the technicality that we fought for our independence as opposed to England going "ah, fuck you guys."

I declare your daughter indoctrinated to self-righteous ignorance.

Well, call it what you like, but don't think a situation where there is a clear majority in favour of one thing, with a number of small minorities, with the biggest barely more than 20%, in favour of one or two other things is particularly "fairly divided".
LOL I think you misunderstand my use of the word "fairly." I didn't mean evenly.

Naziism and Communism are gone? War didn't "solve" communism because a) there was never any "war" on a communist nation and b) Soviet Russia collapsed due to poor financial management which put them decades behind the capitalist world and unable to compete. Naziism is still alive in xenophobes everywhere. War solved fascism? Oh of course, that is why every country is a perfect democracy or republic where everyone is free and happy. War solved slavery like slavery solved agricultural technological advancement.

I will give you American independence on the technicality that we fought for our independence as opposed to England going "ah, fuck you guys."

I declare your daughter indoctrinated to self-righteous ignorance.
Huzzah for bad Soviet accountants!:D

LOL I think you misunderstand my use of the word "fairly." I didn't mean evenly.


Oh, OK.

I still don't agree much with you.

Oh, OK.

I still don't agree much with you.
You don't agree that there's a significant amount of division?

3. Slavery wasnt realy the point of the independence war (kinda hints n the name, eh?),
Maybe because slavery wasn't an issue in the Revolutionary War. Try the Civil War.

Maybe we should teach our children History.

Maybe because slavery wasn't an issue in the Revolutionary War. Try the Civil War.

Maybe we should teach our children History.
It was an issue, but not as significant to most people. Maybe we should start teaching all the facts, not just the mindless propaganda.