NationStates Jolt Archive

Canadian family with four children killed.
Sun Jul 16, 2006 10:25 PM EDT

Canadian deaths provide grim postscript to G8 statement

By David Ljunggren
OTTAWA (Reuters) - Seven Canadians from the same Montreal family, including four young children, were killed in Lebanon on Sunday when Israeli aircraft bombed a house in the south of the country, the Canadian Broadcasting Corp said.

A Canadian foreign ministry spokeswoman confirmed the deaths and said three people were hurt. But she said the incident happened when the house in the town of Aitaroun was shelled.

source: Reuters.com
my2cents: its going to get worse..

They should have left. Oh, wait. The airport is closed. :rolleyes:

I'm sure they were aiming right at them. Israel declares war on Canada.

And of course, no missles coming out of Lebanon killed people in Israel.

I'm sure they were aiming right at them. Israel declares war on Canada.

And of course, no missles coming out of Lebanon killed people in Israel.
The Lebanese have killed 24 people, 12 of which are soldiers.

The Israelis have killed over 100 people, only 13 of which have been militants. Lebanon's infrastructure has also been ruined.

The Canadians were simply another statistic for the Israelis.

I'm sure they were aiming right at them.No they were just aiming appartment buildings :rolleyes:

I'm sure they were aiming right at them. Israel declares war on Canada.BTW kat,

If you have the time and the power to do so.. would you please edit my Thread title.. I meant to say

## Israel kills four Canadian children.. + the parents.

As a question - why does them being Canadian merit a special mention?

Aren't all of the 100+ lives just as significant?

they were just at the wrong place at the wrong time. Can't blame israel for civilian casualties when they attack some target. They were aiming for militia targets, accidents do happen.

for those who failed to notice, this is sarcasm.

And after all, innocent canadian lifes are worth nothing more and nothing less than innocent palestine or libanese lifes

or innocent afghani, iraqi, american, english, north korean, chinese, or south korean lifes

The Lebanese have killed 24 people, 12 of which are soldiers.

The Israelis have killed over 100 people, only 3 of which have been militants. Lebanon's infrastructure has also been ruined.

The Canadians were simply another statistic for the Israelis.If you're posting numbers, a source would be appreciated.


Sucks about the family though. this whole thing came on very suddenly. The canadian embassy is apparently now making arrangements to get Canadians out of lebanon via boats now.

If you're posting numbers, a source would be appreciated.
http://www.euronews.net/create_html.php?page=accueil_info&article=369852&lng=1

There's the Lebanese total : 176 - 13 of them non-civilian.

http://www.euronews.net/create_html.php?page=detail_info&article=369840&lng=1&PHPSESSID=83930f2f781e03e960ccecebb43c39c6

There's the Israeli total : 24, with 12 of them being soldiers.

As a question - why does them being Canadian merit a special mention?

Aren't all of the 100+ lives just as significant?when I see the pictures of the wholesale destruction of appartement buildings in Lebanon.. Its hard to beleive there is only 100's

Whats your point? It was an accident.

when I see the pictures of the wholesale destruction of appartement buildings in Lebanon.. Its hard to beleive there is only 100's
I agree wholeheartedly, there are 176 reported casualties, there are probably more in reality.

As a question - why does them being Canadian merit a special mention?

Aren't all of the 100+ lives just as significant?

means western pro-israel people cant ignore the fact that israel is being a twat

Whats your point? It was an accident.

yep, and it being an accident makes it ok, or at least not something to get upset about

means western pro-israel people cant ignore the fact that israel is being a twat
Ah right, ok.

Just wanted to clear it up ;)

yep, and it being an accident makes it ok

It's a bad thing that happened, but surely this thread was in the intention of making Israel look evil.

I fail to see how this news does so.

Congratulations Yootopia On 2000 Posts

It's a bad thing that happened, but surely this thread was in the intention of making Israel look evil.

I fail to see how this news does so.
I agree that focussing only on Canadian casualties is very wrong, but it's rather sad that that other 170-ish people have been ignored by most other people as well.

Congratulations Yootopia On 2000 Posts
Thanks very much, but it's just a number...

If you're posting numbers, a source would be appreciated.


Sucks about the family though. this whole thing came on very suddenly. The canadian embassy is apparently now making arrangements to get Canadians out of lebanon via boats now.


Have to say thou the Canadian and British Embassy's are taking their time, thou granted there are a few thousand UK citizens in Lebanon but still.

It's a bad thing that happened, but surely this thread was in the intention of making Israel look evil.

I fail to see how this news does so.

Perhaps.

Or perhaps it is an attempt to remind people that Israel is not an innocent victim in this conflict by mentioning REAL innocent victims.

BTW kat,

If you have the time and the power to do so.. would you please edit my Thread title.. I meant to say

## Israel kills four Canadian children.. + the parents.

Really? I thought you accomplished what you wanted in the title -- to make it sound like Israel knowingly slaughters Canadian children.

Title changed, though.

Have to say thou the Canadian and British Embassy's are taking their time, thou granted there are a few thousand UK citizens in Lebanon but still.

They are going as fast as they can with out causing more problems.

I fail to see how this news does so.You fail to see how destroying the Airports, Roads, (and Blockading the Ports)... keeps all the innocent civilean Families trapped in Lebanon?

Perhaps.

Or perhaps it is an attempt to remind people that Israel is not an innocent victim in this conflict by mentioning REAL innocent victims.

It is a dire situation, but things like this are innevitable in a warzone.

As a question - why does them being Canadian merit a special mention?

Aren't all of the 100+ lives just as significant?

Because instead of saying "Canadian family killed in crossfire", "Israel Kills Four Canadian Children" is much less biased.

Thanks very much, but it's just a number...

any excuse for a bit of a party :D

You fail to see how destroying the Airports, Roads, (and Blockading the Ports)... keeps all the innocent civilean Families trapped in Lebanon?

They are legitimate targets, it stops the Hezbollah from coming in and bombing the shit out of them.

Really? I thought you accomplished what you wanted in the title -- to make it sound like Israel knowingly slaughters Canadian children.

Title changed, though.thanks..

Have to say thou the Canadian and British Embassy's are taking their time, thou granted there are a few thousand UK citizens in Lebanon but still.
What can they do?

Most of the airfields are destroyed, the bridges have been destroyed, the roads have been bombed - those ships won't be able to hold ten thousand people, but on the other hand, I can't imagine everyone wanting to leave.

It is a dire situation, but things like this are innevitable in a warzone.

Especially when there's no escape.

Which brings up an interesting question both in Lebanon and in the Gaza Strip:

Who is more responsible for civilian deaths: The combatants who dwel among the civilian population, or the combatants who won't let civilians leave (Bearing in mind that in the Palestinians' case Israel doesn't shoulder all the blame. Egypt and even the Palestinian government have blocked refugees from leaving Gaza)?

It is a dire situation, but things like this are innevitable in a warzone.of course.. I expect you to post this.. everytime civileans are hit in Israel.

Have to say thou the Canadian and British Embassy's are taking their time, thou granted there are a few thousand UK citizens in Lebanon but still.
Apparently, there are 25,000 to 50,000 Canadians in Lebanon at the moment.

thanks.. I noticed you could not resist doing your own title..;) but I will not complain.

peace.

I thought it the happy medium -- your phrasing (which I still believes implies intent), with what was actually said (seven members of same family, including four young children). We can assume one or moreof the members was a parent, but it's not what's stated... could be grandparents or aunt and uncle, older cousin, eh? and what of the seventh? A teen? Young adult?

All's good, I hope.

A temporary ceasefire to evacuate all foreigners from Lebanon would most likely be a good idea.

What can they do?

Most of the airfields are destroyed, the bridges have been destroyed, the roads have been bombed - those ships won't be able to hold ten thousand people, but on the other hand, I can't imagine everyone wanting to leave.


Those who don't want to leave will create their own chances.

As for us not being able to do anything - we DO have Paras, we DO have helicopters, and we should have had real CVNs by now. ( So it is hight time to increase the MOD Budget. )

of course.. I expect you to post this.. everytime civileans are hit in Israel.

Not if it is done intentionally.

All's good, I hope.of course it is. :fluffle:

and as usual.. I changed my post(on the spot) to a simple "thanks"..

I asked you to intervene.. and you took your time to do it..

Thank again Kat.

It is a dire situation, but things like this are innevitable in a warzone.

I'm not going to reply to this fully, only mention that the palestina "terrorists" came from "occupied territories", technically being freedom fighters, or guerillas, whatever their means

of course it is. :fluffle:

and as usual.. I changed my post(on the spot) to a simple "thanks"..

I asked you to intervene.. and you took your time to do it..

Thank again Kat.


You're welcome.

Whats your point? It was an accident.

Agreed. Still tragic though but accidents do happen in war.

means western pro-israel people cant ignore the fact that israel is being a twat

As opposed to eastern anti-israel people who ignore the terrorists being twats? You know it was the terrorists being twats that started this dust up right?

Which war?

I agree that focussing only on Canadian casualties is very wrong, but it's rather sad that that other 170-ish people have been ignored by most other people as well.

And they haven't.

Which war?

1982, lebanon and israel never signed a peace treaty

You fail to see how destroying the Airports, Roads, (and Blockading the Ports)... keeps all the innocent civilean Families trapped in Lebanon?

Funny how people are still leaving the country.

1982, lebanon and israel never signed a peace treaty

Oh, so Israel and Lebanon are in war now?

I haven't seen the lebanese army trying to...you know?, fight back the IDF

Oh, so Israel and Lebanon are in war now?

I haven't seen the lebanese army trying to...you know?, fight back the IDF

That's because they really can't.

What % of the Lebanon popular are foriegn?
It seems to be rather high.

You guys should try to reach a common position. Is the war (¿?) between Israel and Lebanon or Israel against the Hezbollah, you seem to be jumping in and out of that in each different thread.

They can't, or they do not want to?, I am sure that if they would want to they could at least try, no?

You guys should try to reach a common position. Is the war (¿?) between Israel and Lebanon or Israel against the Hezbollah, you seem to be jumping in and out of that in each different thread.

They can't, or they do not want to?, I am sure that if they would want to they could at least try, no?


The Israelis are bad for living in Israel.
Now, stop trying to confuse the issue with question like who if fighting who.
The main thing is: Israelis oughta be not breathing at all.

israel had a war with lebanon in 1982, they never signed a peace treaty, so this "invasion" can be called a continuation of hostilities, merely a new incident

Lebanon isnt realy supportive of Hezbollah, and therefor will not oppose israel, unless the israeli seem to be settling in to stay

Israel isnt interested in another region like the gaza, so it will do anything it can to prevent the need of a long term occupation and serious trouble with the whole international community except the USA (I think/hope)

Israel does want hezbollah off it's tail for a while. How they plan to accomplish this without getting into more trouble is outside my knowledge


anyone who seriously thinks this is about 2 captured soldiers should stop playing diplomatic simulations and go back to war games

Lebanon isnt realy supportive of Hezbollah, and therefor will not oppose israel, unless the israeli seem to be settling in to stay

False. Hezbollah is the largest political party in Lebanon, and has several ministers in the cabinet. The Lebanese government is hardly the innocent entity many seem to think it is.

False. Hezbollah is the largest political party in Lebanon, and has several ministers in the cabinet. The Lebanese government is hardly the innocent entity many seem to think it is.

I base my statement on the fact that, no matter what the odds, the lebanon army hasnt moved or done a thing. Clearly, the ministers dont support Hezbollah vs Israel at this moment, hmm?

I just saw that America has 25,000 people in the nation that we are also going to evac.

I base my statement on the fact that, no matter what the odds, the lebanon army hasnt moved or done a thing. Clearly, the ministers dont support Hezbollah vs Israel at this moment, hmm?

No, they just don't want to fight the IDF. Lebanon, with a conventional military that can't hide their weapons in civilian ares, would be flattened.

Also, there's another thread with the title "Lebanon places full blame on Israel" that might be instructive on this point. I haven't read it yet, though.

I base my statement on the fact that, no matter what the odds, the lebanon army hasnt moved or done a thing. Clearly, the ministers dont support Hezbollah vs Israel at this moment, hmm?


I'm a bit behind on news, possibly, since it seems lebanon is going to support hezbollah

No, they just don't want to fight the IDF. Lebanon, with a conventional military that can't hide their weapons in civilian ares, would be flattened.

Also, there's another thread with the title "Lebanon places full blame on Israel" that might be instructive on this point. I haven't read it yet, though.

The PM was just on Fox News claiming that Israel is fully to blame and not Hezbollah, Syria or Iran. This is in complete reversal in what he was saying earlier in the conflict.

The PM was just on Fox News claiming that Israel is fully to blame and not Hezbollah, Syria or Iran. This is in complete reversal in what he was saying earlier in the conflict.
Yeah, I just read it a few minutes ago. Awful, but not really surprising.

I just saw that America has 25,000 people in the nation that we are also going to evac.
Shame they're charging them to get out.

George Bush said Hezbollah should stop attacking...

http://jta.org/page_view_breaking_story.asp?intid=3601

Yeah thats like telling France to stop attacking Nazi Germany.

For one thing, my mind wonders why preparations weren't made for evacuation when all this started (how many freaking days ago now?)

I'm no expert, but surely we (various N. American/European countries) could have been more prepared to evacuate our citizens than we apparently are.

Also, normally I'm pretty supportive of Israel, but to me this is an overreaction.

Did anyone ask the two kidnapped soldiers if they wanted hundreds of civilians and soldiers (from both sides) to die...on their account?

Will we ever get the chance to find out? Probably not...

...makes the whole situation suck even more if you ask me. :(

I just saw that America has 25,000 people in the nation that we are also going to evac.

OMG CUT AND RUN!

Yeah thats like telling France to stop attacking Nazi Germany.

My, but you're an offensive, opinionated, and obnoxious person, aren't you? Because Israel invaded Lebanon with the express purpose of exterminating all of the Shi'a Muslims...wait, no. Israel is responding to attacks on its civilian population centers.

It's actually much more the other way around. Both Hezbollah and the Nazis share the goal of massacring millions of Jews.

As a question - why does them being Canadian merit a special mention?

Aren't all of the 100+ lives just as significant?

Not to most Americans almost everyone in my gov't class believed whole-heartedly that Israel had the right to bomb lebanon and the innocents killed deserved to die becouse they were supporting terrorists. Then i told them that about 30% of lebenon was christian their viewpoints pulled a 180 so fast i almost got sick

Yeah, I just read it a few minutes ago. Awful, but not really surprising.

Which begs the question about his all of a sudden change of attitude.

Shame they're charging them to get out.

*sighs*

Then explain why the US is sending in an Evac ship?

Which begs the question about his all of a sudden change of attitude.
Internal political pressure from Hezbollah. Has to be.

Apparently 3 helicopters are being used to evac americans to Cyperus.

*sighs*

Then explain why the US is sending in an Evac ship?
Because they want to rescue people whilist reimbursing the costs...

Internal political pressure from Hezbollah. Has to be.

Or by Syria.

As to those evacuess, apparently a Greek Ship will be taking them to Cyperus.

Internal political pressure from Hezbollah. Has to be.
A realisation that Israel has massively overblown its response?

OMG CUT AND RUN!

THEY'RE CIVILIANS!!!!! First rule in a crisis area is evac as many civilians from your nation (or others) as you can.

Also, we are not the only ones evacing civilians. Other nations are also evacing their own citizens too. Are they cutting and running?

THEY'RE CIVILIANS!!!!! First rule in a crisis area is evac as many civilians from your nation (or others) as you can.

Also, we are not the only ones evacing civilians. Other nations are also evacing their own citizens too. Are they cutting and running?

whats a civilian in a war against terrorist?

OMG CUT AND RUN!
Not really, civilian evacuations are quite a useful thing for a navy to do.

Most nations are currently doing it.

whats a civilian in a war against terrorist?
Someone unarmed with no intention to hurt anyone?

Someone unarmed with no intention to hurt anyone?

and how do you know that about anyone without taking away some of their "rights"?

A realisation that Israel has massively overblown its response?
Even if that's true (which I'm arguing on a separate thread), that "realization" is irrelevant. The Lebanese PM's statements were about who was to blame for the initiation of hostilities, which has nothing to do with what you just admitted was a "response" to Hezbollah, who obviously started the current crisis.

and how do you know that about anyone without taking away some of their "rights"?
You're talking about the American situation, which is different than the Israeli one, which isn't a question of rights but rather a question of acceptable military tactics.

And from the air, you can't tell who's a civilian and who isn't. That doesn't make killing civilians right. Israel still has a moral responsibility to minimize civilian casualties as much as possible given the whole "war for survival" bit.

The whole situation is a tragedy. It will get worse before any possibilty of it getting any better.

The Lebanese have killed 24 people, 12 of which are soldiers.

The Israelis have killed over 100 people, only 13 of which have been militants. Lebanon's infrastructure has also been ruined.

The Canadians were simply another statistic for the Israelis.
Face it. In this world at this time, we're all statistics. :(

Face it. In this world at this time, we're all statistics. :(

I couldn't agree more. It takes to be a celeb or a world leader to be out of the statistic block. Even Tonga royal family is a statistic...

I couldn't agree more. It takes to be a celeb or a world leader to be out of the statistic block. Even Tonga royal family is a statistic...

Not to mention the Grand Duke of Luxembourg.

People died. In a war zone. And you are surprised?

Why don't we go back and review the historical records, and see how many "innocent civilians" and "neutral third-parties" happened to die at an inopportune moment during World War II at the hands of Allied bombs?

and how do you know that about anyone without taking away some of their "rights"?
If people are wanting to leave, and pose no danger, then it's only right to let them leave, yeah?



So what's your solution?

Follow the Israeli line and just blow everything up?

Killing people's relatives and destroying their homes and lands is what breeds terrorism.

If you give a man nothing to encourage him to live, then killing some foes along with themself seems appealing.

You can call that a martyrdom, a suicide bombing, a homicide bombing, whatever, it all means the same thing.



That's why it's very, very important to win the hearts and minds of people in places such as Iraq and Palestine, because if you go around destroying everything they hold dear, then all you're going to get is retribution.

People died. In a war zone. And you are surprised?

Why don't we go back and review the historical records, and see how many "innocent civilians" and "neutral third-parties" happened to die at an inopportune moment during World War II at the hands of Allied bombs?
I still deplore what "Butch" Harris did to the Germans to this day. Dresden and Köln were out of order.

Who's defending what the Allies did, exactly?

If people are wanting to leave, and pose no danger, then it's only right to let them leave, yeah?



So what's your solution?

Follow the Israeli line and just blow everything up?

Killing people's relatives and destroying their homes and lands is what breeds terrorism.

If you give a man nothing to encourage him to live, then killing some foes along with themself seems appealing.

You can call that a martyrdom, a suicide bombing, a homicide bombing, whatever, it all means the same thing.



That's why it's very, very important to win the hearts and minds of people in places such as Iraq and Palestine, because if you go around destroying everything they hold dear, then all you're going to get is retribution.


Not if you really destroy everything.

Did we go around winning the hearts and minds of the Nips - or did the Allies nuke 'em?

I'm happy it was the latter.

My dad grew up in a Japanese death-camp - and another week of waiting for a Japanese change of heart might well have killed him.

So - HURRAH! for bodycounting our opponents.

Wow, when Western civilians get killed ,some people go all up in arms about how terrible the situation is.

But when its Lebanese, Palestinian or Israeli civilians, its just 'business as usual'.

Hitler had the right idea- he was just an underacheiver.

Not if you really destroy everything.

Did we go around winning the hearts and minds of the Nips - or did the Allies nuke 'em?

I'm happy it was the latter.

My dad grew up in a Japanese death-camp - and another week of waiting for a Japanese change of heart might well have killed him.

So - HURRAH! for bodycounting our opponents.

Wow, your intolerance grows as big as your enemies'

We should just capture all the people like you, (including both neonazis, israeli extremists and the entire Hezbollah, Al Quaeda, and Hamas militants), turn you loose in the artic and then drop all kind of small weapons from choppers. We coud even broadcast the event as the Ultimate Showdown. We would be happy of get rid of you, and the best part is that you would be happy to face each other without restraints for a last time.

Win-win.

So - HURRAH! for bodycounting our opponents.

Never say that. Ever.


I agree that Israel is in the moral right in the current situation. That doesn't make it OK to glorify death. We have to fight, but we shouldn't be happy about it.

I still deplore what "Butch" Harris did to the Germans to this day. Dresden and Köln were out of order.

Who's defending what the Allies did, exactly?

When you defeat someone militarily, it is never enough to just destroy their military.

The population must be utterly convinced of their defeat. That's why we aren't fighting insurgents in Germany and Japan today.

And it's why we're fighting insurgents in Iraq - we thought that by merely eliminating the conventional military in a couple of weeks, that everyone would be convinced of their defeat, and play nice.

If your house is still standing, you're still eating food, your kids are still alive, and there's still power and water, you're not defeated.

When your city is in rubble, and your military annihilated and rotting in the open, and you have no idea if any of your family is still alive, and there are no roads, power, water, sewer, food, and you're horribly injured and have no hospital, and the majority of people in your city are dead or dying, that's when people are convinced of defeat, and their survivors do not become insurgents.

Hitler had the right idea- he was just an underacheiver.

God, I hope people get the irony.

God, I hope people get the irony.
Personally I hope someone gets the quote....

I'm a bit behind on news, possibly, since it seems lebanon is going to support hezbollahmost Arabs and Muslims are going to support Hezbollah.

If I was Arab or Muslim.. I know I would.

Never say that. Ever.


I agree that Israel is in the moral right in the current situation. That doesn't make it OK to glorify death. We have to fight, but we shouldn't be happy about it.


I'm not exactly Israel.

All morals are customary, and therefore ethnic-specific.

Suffice it to say that a goodly sized lot of my ancestors considered wiping out Bagdad and Damascus was the morally right thing to do.
The Mongol Option = What Would My Greatgreatgrandpaw Have Done?

most Arabs and Muslims are going to support Hezbollah.

If I was Arab or Muslim.. I know I would.

Saudi Arab = Muslim and against Hezbollah
Jordan= muslim against Hezbollah
Egypt=Muslim against Hezbollah
Iraq=Muslim against Hezbollah

Seems to me that the opposite is occuring.

Besides, if thats the same story I think it is, they were Lebanese but also had Canadian citizenship. They weren't random Canadians that got lost on vacation. I really don't care if they got hit by accident anyways. Terrorists blow civilian up every day but I never hear you human rights people condemning them. Israel bombs a town and you suddenly have a wave of criticism come washing forth over a well-deserved response to an attack. Maybe the Middle East should learn its lesson. It keeps getting its ass kicked by Israel, so maybe it should end the hostilities to save its own ass.

Saudi Arab = Muslim and against Hezbollah
Jordan= muslim against Hezbollah
Egypt=Muslim against Hezbollah
Iraq=Muslim against Hezbollah

Seems to me that the opposite is occuring.


That is because very few people outside the ME ever pay the slightest attention to such basic facts as the mutual dislike of the various islamic sects.

Not if you really destroy everything.

Did we go around winning the hearts and minds of the Nips - or did the Allies nuke 'em?
...
So - HURRAH! for bodycounting our opponents.
.
I assume you are Jewish.. or at least North-American

That is because very few people outside the ME ever pay the slightest attention to such basic facts as the mutual dislike of the various islamic sects.
Does china has facts(regarding sects)?
Deviant spam

BTW kat,

If you have the time and the power to do so.. would you please edit my Thread title.. I meant to say

## Israel kills four Canadian children.. + the parents.

You didn't think the orginal Topic was Flamebaity enough or something?

Saudi Arab = Muslim and against Hezbollah
Jordan= muslim against Hezbollah
Egypt=Muslim against Hezbollah
Iraq=Muslim against Hezbollah

Seems to me that the opposite is occuring.you are wrong in so many ways.. this deserves a thread.

.
I assume you are Jewish.. or at least North-American

Wrong. Twice.

Does china has facts(regarding sects)?
Deviant spam


From their point they're all Kwei Lo or Lao Wai.

Besides, if thats the same story I think it is, they were Lebanese but also had Canadian citizenship. They weren't random Canadians that got lost on vacation. I really don't care if they got hit by accident anyways. Terrorists blow civilian up every day but I never hear you human rights people condemning them. Israel bombs a town and you suddenly have a wave of criticism come washing forth over a well-deserved response to an attack. Maybe the Middle East should learn its lesson. It keeps getting its ass kicked by Israel, so maybe it should end the hostilities to save its own ass.

Pffft, go away

I critic the terrorist's action at every opportunity I have to, but that doesn't mean I will condone the bombing of a capital city by an army that is supposedly looking for a pair of missing soldiers. I think they haven't even realized that they could be hitting their own soldiers bombing those Hezbollah's bases. What a smart thing to do, no?

"Kidnapped soldiers die in an israeli raid along with their captors in a Hezbollah's base"

You didn't think the orginal Topic was Flamebaity enough or something?First: I do not have to justify (to you) the way I write my titles.

Second: because I involved Kat into this.. I am going to exepcionally do this once (and for the last time):

I tough that mentioning only the 4 young children was not complete information..

I needed to reflect (someway) the fact that the parents were killed too.

From their point they're all Kwei Lo or Lao Wai.
that is why it is useless to point at a point,it only gives you a line

that is why it is usless to point at a point,it only give you a line


So you might wish to keep your trap shut. Capisce?

you are wrong in so many ways.. this deserves a thread.

WRONG! You made a statement and I proved you wrong. The Arab world (at least some of them) are blaming Hezbollah for what is happening in Lebanon and NOT Israel.

So you might wish to keep your trap shut. Capisce?

no,it means there is no trap.comprendes?

LOL, Israel has what is arguably the world's most effective army. I believe they are more than capable of wiping the floor with Lebanon, finding their soldiers, and plucking Osama's bushy beard than you are of critiquing their military strategy.

no,it means there is no trap.comprendes?

Not quite deadly enough. I'm reminded of the 5th Dutch Topic.

As I said before:quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi.

Now, please, do the French thing and surrender to an invader or something.

no,it means there is no trap.comprendes?

Can you people stop from murdering spanish?

And..Surf Shack...your point exactly is?

Not quite deadly enough. I'm reminded of the 5th Dutch Topic.

As I said before:quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi.

Now, please, do the French thing and surrender to an invader or something.
what is the deal,i have spies you don't.
All you have is a roman lie.

you are wrong in so many ways.. this deserves a thread.
No you're being proved wrong right and left, you try to do anything you can to get everyone here to hate Israel and you fail.

Can you people stop from murdering spanish?

And..Surf Shack...your point exactly is?
usted

LOL, Israel has what is arguably the world's most effective army. I believe they are more than capable of wiping the floor with Lebanon, finding their soldiers, and plucking Osama's bushy beard than you are of critiquing their military strategy.sure Israel is capable of walking all over Lebanon's Army.. But can they wipe out Hezbollah?
or (since you mention it) Osama or AQ?

I dont think so.

usted

Wow, eso fue realmente profundo.

¿Y qué traductor estás usando exactamente?, no es muy bueno que digamos.

you are wrong in so many ways.. this deserves a thread.
No .....No?
It does not deserve a thread?
well.. guess what?
I will create the thread.. and that will give you a chance to prove me wrong. ;)

how'bout'that? :D

Wow, eso fue realmente profundo.

¿Y qué traductor estás usando exactamente?, no es muy bueno que digamos.
no hablo español,hace mucho tiempo que no hablo español.
Qué tal?
en bablefish es mierda.
le reste c'est comme la vie ca va ca vient
Dutch keyboards;)

I am just going to post this one post here. I think that it is repulsive that OcceanDrive is using the deaths of innocent civilians caught in the middle of the conflict to push his "OMFG ISRAEL=EVIL AND SHOULD BE DESTORYED!!!!!11" agenda. The title of this thread is meant to produce a fervor against the Jews in Israel, much how Goebbel's propaganda speeches made the German people of the 1930s hate the Jewish people in Germany, or how the people in the Middle Ages thought about Jews. That is just my opinion on it.

No?
It does not deserve a thread?
well.. guess what?
I will create the thread.. and that will give you a chance to prove me wrong. ;)

how'bout'that? :D
No, the no means your ideas are wrong everyone in the Arab world is not supporting Hezbollah, as much as you'd like to wish they would.
You aren't even worth proving wrong. You've been proved already.
You lose this debate.

I am just going to post this one post here. I think that it is repulsive that OcceanDrive is using the deaths of innocent civilians caught in the middle of the conflict to push his "OMFG ISRAEL=EVIL AND SHOULD BE DESTORYED!!!!!11" agenda. The title of this thread is meant to produce a fervor against the Jews in Israel, much how Goebbel's propaganda speeches made the German people of the 1930s hate the Jewish people in Germany, or how the people in the Middle Ages thought about Jews. That is just my opinion on it.
Exactly Tomzilla, you hit his goals exactly. To make this forum hate Israel.

I am just going to post this one post here. I think that it is repulsive that OcceanDrive is using the deaths of innocent civilians caught in the middle of the conflict to push his "OMFG ISRAEL=EVIL AND SHOULD BE DESTORYED!!!!!11" agenda. The title of this thread is meant to produce a fervor against the Jews in Israel, much how Goebbel's propaganda speeches made the German people of the 1930s hate the Jewish people in Germany, or how the people in the Middle Ages thought about Jews. That is just my opinion on it.

A little bit extreme, you...

But, I think everyone is trying to push their agenda on the threads of this forums, no?

I mean, I think we had agreed on that...Pro-israeli, Israeli-haters, Leftists, Right wing...

no hablo español,hace mucho tiempo que no hablo español.
Qué tal?
en bablefish es mierda.
le reste c'est comme la vie ca va ca vient
Dutch keyboards;)on va tous mourir de toda manras.. alors ne prends pas la vida com mucho stress, Yo estoy viviendo la vida loca, Dutch Keyboar? c de la merde, pero mejor que vivir sin Internet nes-pas?

The population must be utterly convinced of their defeat. That's why we aren't fighting insurgents in Germany and Japan today.
What about the Wolverines?
When your city is in rubble, and your military annihilated and rotting in the open, and you have no idea if any of your family is still alive, and there are no roads, power, water, sewer, food, and you're horribly injured and have no hospital, and the majority of people in your city are dead or dying, that's when people are convinced of defeat, and their survivors do not become insurgents.
People standing around at sandwich stands and getting blown up by the Palestinians say otherwise.

on va tous mourir de toda manras.. alors ne prends pas la vida com mucho stress, Yo estoy viviendo la vida loca, ducch Keyboars? c de la merde, pero mejor que vivir sin Internet nes-pas?
no se,pienso que la vida,is niet altijd wat het lijkt,pourtant je fais de mon mieux,and remember civilian who are diying.
:headbang:

I am just going to post this one post here. I think that it is repulsive that OcceanDrive is using the deaths of innocent civilians caught in the middle of the conflict to push his "OMFG ISRAEL=EVIL AND SHOULD BE DESTORYED!!!!!11" agenda. The title of this thread is meant to produce a fervor against the Jews in Israel, much how Goebbel's propaganda speeches made the German people of the 1930s hate the Jewish people in Germany, or how the people in the Middle Ages thought about Jews. That is just my opinion on it.there we go again: the you-are-just-a-Nazi/Holocaust-denier/Anti-semite crowd.. :rolleyes:

I am just going to post this one post here. I think that it is repulsive that OcceanDrive is using the deaths of innocent civilians caught in the middle of the conflict to push his "OMFG ISRAEL=EVIL AND SHOULD BE DESTORYED!!!!!11" agenda. The title of this thread is meant to produce a fervor against the Jews in Israel, much how Goebbel's propaganda speeches made the German people of the 1930s hate the Jewish people in Germany, or how the people in the Middle Ages thought about Jews. That is just my opinion on it.
Where is the word "Jewish" or "Jews" used at all by OcceanDrive?

Being anti-Israel doesn't make you Anti-Semitic.

Where is the word "Jewish" or "Jews" used at all by Oceandrive?

Being anti-Israel doesn't make you Anti-Semitic.
Well, being 'anti-the existence of Israel' would make you anti-Semitic really....

No?
It does not deserve a thread?
well.. guess what?
I will create the thread.. and that will give you a chance to prove me wrong. ;)

how'bout'that? :D

You've already been provin' wrong. No more to discuss.

Meh, not only being anti-semitic or anti-Israel, but just criticizing the international policy of the Israel state will get you labeled as...How did they call me?, a "Israel Basher".

Regarding agendas, I think the pro-israeli people here, specially the Israeli, seems to have a more obvious agenda, by their jumpiness.

Well, being 'anti-the existence of Israel' would make you anti-Semitic really....
i always thought semit were like celts,they are everywhere

This is what happens when a murderous government bombs their opponents indiscriminately. Im sure Israel cares less about the family, just as long as they picked off a few Muslims.

dp

This is what happens when a murderous government bombs their opponents indiscriminately. Im sure Israel cares less about the family, just as long as they picked off a few Muslims.

Oh my god, stop the trolling already, ok

You have no right to deny holocaust in that way, you nazi

Oh my god, stop the trolling already, ok

You have no right to deny holocaust in that way, you nazi

I dont know how to respond to this because I am not sure if you are joking.

When you defeat someone militarily, it is never enough to just destroy their military.

When your city is in rubble, and your military annihilated and rotting in the open, and you have no idea if any of your family is still alive, and there are no roads, power, water, sewer, food, and you're horribly injured and have no hospital, and the majority of people in your city are dead or dying, that's when people are convinced of defeat, and their survivors do not become insurgents.

Or we get the aftermath of WWI and the seeds of WWII and beyond.

On the main topic of the thread, the point that I took from the title was that this thread was aimed at those who have stated that the murder of innocent civilians during a terrorist action was ample moral justification for the destruction of a modern country and the killing (directly or indirectly) or hundreds.
As this is an invasion of a country Israel is not officially at war with this must be an act of terrorism
"The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons."
As such those Canadians died in a terrorist attack. Therefore Canada and its allies would be fully justified in inflicting upon Israel what Israel is inflicting upon the Lebanese.

I do not agree with the point in a strategic sense, but I do hope that this thread allows those who have been holding to the line that a few deaths utterly and totally justify the actions of Operation Summer Rain and Operation Just Reward to realise that perhaps it doesn't and that, perhaps, there are other ways to prevent deaths (Israeli and other) in the future.

I dont know how to respond to this because I am not sure if you are joking.

;)

;)

Gotcha

Well, being 'anti-the existence of Israel' would make you anti-Semitic really....I am for the existence of Israel.. I am for the existence of 1/2/any-number of Jewish states..

I just happen to think that Creating such a State in the Arablands.. in middle of Muslim nations is a bloody mistake.

I do not care if they are going to call me Nazi/Holocaust-denier/Anti-semite for thinking that..

anyways the IDF/mossad is currently the most anti-semite entity in the World.. they murder semites on a dayly basis.

I am for the existence of Israel.. I am for the existence of 1/2/any-number of Jewish states..

I just happen to think that Creating such a State in the Arablands.. in middle of Muslim nations is a bloody mistake.

I do not care if they are going to call me Nazi/Holocaust-denier/Anti-semite for thinking that..

anyways the IDF/mossad is currently the most anti-semite entity in the World.. they murder semites on a dayly basis.
Alright already! You already posted it! Jeesh....

I am for the existence of Israel.. I am for the existence of 1/2/any-number of Jewish states..

I just happen to think that Creating such a State in the Arablands.. in middle of Muslim nations is a bloody mistake.

I do not care if they are going to call me Nazi/Holocaust-denier/Anti-semite for thinking that..

anyways the IDF/mossad is currently the most anti-semite entity in the World.. they murder semites on a dayly basis.


No, you're all for the destruction of the state of Israel, and you know it. You wouldn't care how many people were killed moving the Jews out of what you call "Arab land", or what means were done to make that happen.

Well, being 'anti-the existence of Israel' would make you anti-Semitic really....
Not really. I quite like Jewish people and their respect for education, but Jews having their own state cheeses me off somewhat.

No, you're all for the destruction of the state of Israel, and you know it. You wouldn't care how many people were killed moving the Jews out of what you call "Arab land", or what means were done to make that happen.
And how, may I ask, do you know that?

I try to remain “neutral”, but I notice in certain posts that people lack a bit of perspective.
I stated already in other posts, on other threads, my opinion on the nature of the current situation, so I am not going to repeat it again.
Irrespective of whom is to blame, during a war there casualties and blaming only one of the sides demonstrates lack of good sense.
This said, I think non the less that blaming mainly Israel for all the wrongs is lacking sight of recent History both in the Middle East and other regions of the globe.
A little of food for thoughts:
1. How many Kurds, Turkish and mostly Lebanese have died in the last 20 years at the hands of Hezbollah?
2.What to say about France when Mitterrand armed the Hutu militia in Rwanda that led to the genocide? (would he have been American and not French probably still today, almost 10 years after his death there would be voices asking for a posthumous trial).
3.What to say about the “ wait and see” attitude, mostly by Europe during the successive crisis in Former Yugoslavia?

No, you're all for the destruction of the state of Israel, and you know it.since you have magic powers.. and know better than me about my own opinions.. use your mind-reading magic powers to see which finger I am raising under the table? :D ;) You wouldn't care how many people were killed moving the Jews out of what you call "Arab land"...If I could dictate US policy.. 0 (zero) killed..

And how, may I ask, do you know that?

Because we're used to his Anti-Israeli outbursts.

And how, may I ask, do you know that?
If you want the Jews moved to another country (as he and the Iranian President demand), you'll have to kill a lot of Jews to get them to go along with it. Period.

Obviously, he has zero problem with that.

you'll have to kill a lot of Jews to get them to go along with it. period.
Obviously, he has zero problem with that.I want to reduce the number of pople killed.. not increase it.

I want this Israel-Palestine bloody shit over.. once and for all.

If you want the Jews moved to another country (as he and the Iranian President demand), you'll have to kill a lot of Jews to get them to go along with it. Period.

Obviously, he has zero problem with that.
Well you could always just ask them politely and promise them some tasty lollipops...

Yeah, Occeandrive and others asking for the banishment of Israel try to hold an absurd position. Israel is an independent state and should be recognized as such. They should abandon the occupied territories, although.

I want to reduce the number of pople killed.. not increase it.

I want this Israel-Palestine bloody shit over.. once and for all.

There we can agree.

Yeah, Occeandrive and others asking for the banishment of Israel try to hold an absurd position. Israel is an independent state and should be recognized as such. They should abandon the occupied territories, although.

As part of the peace settlement.
Not before.

There we can agree.*shakes hands with Corneliu*
done, agreed.

As part of the peace settlement.
Not before.
Which one? There's been about a dozen!

Which one? There's been about a dozen!

Cease fires.
Not peace settlements.

*shakes hands with Corneliu*
done, agreed.


I hate to spoil the moment but - whose defeat do you intend to use as the end of the conflict?

Cease fires.
Not peace settlements.Cease-fires?.. there has been hundreds of those.. only to be broken later.. in an non-stop circle of violence.. destruction and assasination.

there has been hundreds of those.. only to be broken later.. in an non-stop circle of violence.. destruction and assasination.


Explain that to P.M. I'm not sure he understands the difference between a temporal absence of fighting ( such as while changing magazines in your gun ) and a termination of hostilities.

I hate to spoil the moment but - whose defeat do you intend to use as the end of the conflict?(If I could dictate US policy)I intend to use comon sense.

defeat?.. Nope.. the Victory of peace.

Explain that to P.M. I'm not sure he understands the difference between a temporal absence of fighting ( such as while changing magazines in your gun ) and a termination of hostilities.
No, I mean Oslo, Road Map, EU brokered plans... there's been a few different peace plans.

Do you just mean the current flavour of the month? (the road map)

there has been hundreds of those.. only to be broken later.. in an non-stop circle of violence.. destruction and assasination.

From both parties

From both partiesof course.

Yeah, Occeandrive and others asking for the banishment of Israel try to hold an absurd position. Israel is an independent state and should be recognized as such. They should abandon the occupied territories, although.

They had abandoned Gaza, and were in the process of figuring out how to abandon the rest of the occupied territories.

We live in an interesting world where you're allowed to stockpile rockets and fire them into Israel, but if Israel does anything except stand there and let civilians get killed, Israel is roundly criticized and the people who fired the rockets are encouraged to keep doing it.

No, I mean Oslo, Road Map, EU brokered plans... there's been a few different peace plans.

Do you just mean the current flavour of the month? (the road map)


Oh - sorry! I don't mean plans, I mean results.

I mean a real peace, the kind in which the Arab countries agree to stop pestering Israel, disarm and disband all those private militias, and stop saying that the world would have been a better place if only Hitler had won.

We live in an interesting world where you're allowed to stockpile rockets and fire them into Israel, but if Israel does anything except stand there and let civilians get killed, Israel is roundly criticized and the people who fired the rockets are encouraged to keep doing it.hmm lets run the timeline again..shall we?


2006 Israel-Hezbollah WAR
timeline

1# 1998 Lebanon-Isreal war
no end of the War is ever signed..

2# 2006 Hezbollah kills a dozen soldiers inside Israel.. and captures 2 of them alive..

3# Hezbollah as before.. offers a "prisoner exchange"..

4# Isreal answer by bombing Lebanon.. kills dozens of civileans.. including 2 hezbollah militants(so they claim)

5# Hezbollah launches 100,s of rockets across Israel.. kills scores of civileans.

#6 repeat 4# and #5 in a loop..
etc
etc
_________________

So here is my question for you.. in this new Hezbollah-Israel 2006 crisis..
WHO KILLED CIVILEANS FIRST ??

Israel or Hezbollah ??

hmm lets run the timelane again..shall we?
2006 Israel-Hezbollah.
________________________________
1# 1998 Lebanon-Isreal war
no end of the War is ever signed..

2# 2006 Hezbollah kills a dozen soldiers inside Israel.. and captures 2 of them alive..

3# Hezbollah as before.. offers a "prisoner exchange"..

4# Isreal answer by bombing Lebanon.. kills dozens of civileans.. including 2 hezbollah militants(so they claim)

5# Hezbollah launches 100,s of rockets across Israel.. kills scores of civileans.

#6 repeat 4# and #5 in a loop..
etc
etc
_________________

So here is my question for you.. in this 2006 crisis..
WHO KILLED CIVILEANS FIRST ??


The 'prophet' Mohammed. At Khaybar.

Oh - sorry! I don't mean plans, I mean results.

I mean a real peace, the kind in which the Arab countries agree to stop pestering Israel, disarm and disband all those private militias, and stop saying that the world would have been a better place if only Hitler had won.

Ah. Gotcha.

They had abandoned Gaza, and were in the process of figuring out how to abandon the rest of the occupied territories.

We live in an interesting world where you're allowed to stockpile rockets and fire them into Israel, but if Israel does anything except stand there and let civilians get killed, Israel is roundly criticized and the people who fired the rockets are encouraged to keep doing it.

No, noone is encouraging the people firing the rockets. Noone, at least not me, so stop putting those words in my mouth, I'm getting tired of telling you and your bunch that. those guys with the rockets deserve one thing. Rot in jail.

But, aerial attacks and artillery strikes do not help, mostly when you are looking for a pair of missing soldiers. What about commando missions by Special Operations teams to rescue them and kill their captors, minimizing collateral damage?, with less civilians getting affected and less highways and bridges destroyed? If you really care about those soldiers, Don't you worry that maybe one of your artillery shells could kill them if they hit the Hezbollah base where they are being held?

Get the point, ok?

Ah. Gotcha.


It's all that modern-day doublespeek.
Check wikipedia: there's more disambiguation than content these days.

*snip*


Thank you :)

The 'prophet' Mohammed. At Khaybar.nice try.

try again..
My question is about this war.. the one on CNN.. not religous writtings from hundreds of years ago.

No, noone is encouraging the people firing the rockets. Noone, at least not me, so stop putting those words in my mouth, I'm getting tired of telling you and your bunch that. those guys with the rockets deserve one thing. Rot in jail.

But, aerial attacks and artillery strikes do not help, mostly when you are looking for a pair of missing soldiers. What about commando missions by Special Operations teams to rescue them and kill their captors, minimizing collateral damage?, with less civilians getting affected and less highways and bridges destroyed? If you really care about those soldiers, Don't you worry that maybe one of your artillery shells could kill them if they hit the Hezbollah base where they are being held?

Get the point, ok?

Bombing a location where there's a rocket battery is good, sound tactics.

In case you haven't figured it out already, those kidnapped soldiers are already dead. Otherwise, they would have found a way to hand them over.

Destroying bridges and highways and powerplants and stockpiles of rockets is also sound tactics. Please read up on Col. John Warden's theories on how to prosecute war by utterly and quickly destroying infrastructure and command and control targets instead of military front line troops.

Also, "special forces" require knowing where someone is in order to raid and rescue them. No one knows where they are, amongst over 300,000 Hezbollah troops.

Bombing a location where there's a rocket battery is good, sound tactics.

In case you haven't figured it out already, those kidnapped soldiers are already dead. Otherwise, they would have found a way to hand them over.

Destroying bridges and highways and powerplants and stockpiles of rockets is also sound tactics. Please read up on Col. John Warden's theories on how to prosecute war by utterly and quickly destroying infrastructure and command and control targets instead of military front line troops.

Also, "special forces" require knowing where someone is in order to raid and rescue them. No one knows where they are, amongst over 300,000 Hezbollah troops.

Wait wait wait. If they're dead, then the actions carried out now are utterly punitive. And the people being affected are the Lebanese civilians and the Israeli civilians.

I don't believe they are dead yet.

nice try.

try again..
My question is about this war.. the one on CNN.. not religous writtings from hundreds of years ago.


Aha - you want to play little games by changing the definitions a bit.

But as the old saying has it: abo ovo ledae incepit bellum troianum.

Counsellor, in law courts they call that a leading question. Typically, the Judge punishes you for those.

Bombing a location where there's a rocket battery is good, sound tactics.

In case you haven't figured it out already, those kidnapped soldiers are already dead. Otherwise, they would have found a way to hand them over.

Destroying bridges and highways and powerplants and stockpiles of rockets is also sound tactics. Please read up on Col. John Warden's theories on how to prosecute war by utterly and quickly destroying infrastructure and command and control targets instead of military front line troops.

Also, "special forces" require knowing where someone is in order to raid and rescue them. No one knows where they are, amongst over 300,000 Hezbollah troops.

If they are dead, and we smart people already realized it, then why the IDF is doing operations to put pressure for their liberation? or are just being hypocrites over the issue?

Col. John Warden's theories look like the "Manual for the Urban terrorist" issued by cubans around here, same content. Then the israeli state is making terrorists actions against the Lebanon populace?, to scare them off?

And...I have just realized there is no point in wasting my fingernails discussing the points further with you, actually...

Destroying bridges and highways and powerplants and stockpiles of rockets is also sound tactics. Please read up on Col. John Warden's theories on how to prosecute war by utterly and quickly destroying infrastructure and command and control targets instead of military front line troops.


As far as I am aware Israel occupied those vital targets during the Occupation for four years. Even when they pulled the majority of their forces out they left notable assets in place for a significant time. Yet Hezbollah was created and thrived.

Do you really think that a bombardment is going to succeed where the IDF in massive numbers failed before?
This is not a rhetorical question, I would appreciate an answer and evidence to back your claim.

Wait wait wait. If they're dead, then the actions carried out now are utterly punitive. And the people being affected are the Lebanese civilians and the Israeli civilians.

I don't believe they are dead yet.

Warden's theory relies on the idea that much more political pressure can be brought to bear on a nation if it realizes that it's going back to the 19th century in about three weeks if it continues to be stupid.

Worked on Serbia. Worked twice on Iraq. Lebanon can either respond and destroy Hezbollah, or watch their country expire in short order. It also makes a lot of direct invasion unnecessary until there are no real air targets left.

Warden's theory relies on the idea that much more political pressure can be brought to bear on a nation if it realizes that it's going back to the 19th century in about three weeks if it continues to be stupid.

Worked on Serbia. Worked twice on Iraq. Lebanon can either respond and destroy Hezbollah, or watch their country expire in short order. It also makes a lot of direct invasion unnecessary until there are no real air targets left.

To put political pressure by the use of force with the intent of create fear is terrorism. Thanks for label the actions all by yourself. I didn't even tried to label Israel's actions as terrorism, but you...Well, you managed to do it pretty well, even putting the USA inside the terrorist bag.

Warden's theory relies on the idea that much more political pressure can be brought to bear on a nation if it realizes that it's going back to the 19th century in about three weeks if it continues to be stupid.

Worked on Serbia. Worked twice on Iraq. Lebanon can either respond and destroy Hezbollah, or watch their country expire in short order. It also makes a lot of direct invasion unnecessary until there are no real air targets left.

The goals were different from Lebanon to Serbia and Iraq.

His theory may be all well and good, but it belies the fact that if the reason for the invasion is fradulent, then the actions now are purely punitive and reprehensible.

Warden's theory obviously does not take into account mankinds knack for doing the unpredictable and, and when pressured, fighting back for survival against the odds.

Worked on Serbia. Worked twice on Iraq. Lebanon can either respond and destroy Hezbollah, or watch their country expire in short order. It also makes a lot of direct invasion unnecessary until there are no real air targets left.

I don't think it did work on Serbia. It certainly didn't work in Iraq and how exactly do you suggest that the recently 'Pearl Harboured' Lebanese army go about disarming the most robust terrorist group in existence today, in urban environments, in Hezbollah's back yard, whilst Israeli jets and raids by ground forces are destroying it, its routes to the areas where Hezbollah are and its resources?

The goals were different from Lebanon to Serbia and Iraq.

His theory may be all well and good, but it belies the fact that if the reason for the invasion is fradulent, then the actions now are purely punitive and reprehensible.

Warden's theory obviously does not take into account mankinds knack for doing the unpredictable and, and when pressured, fighting back for survival against the odds.

I think it got a rise out of the Lebanese government a lot faster than doing nothing, or even just shelling Hezbollah.

Now they realize that if they continue to have Hezbollah live in Lebanon, life will go straight into the sewer.

It does have a powerful effect on morale.

Aha - you want to play little games by changing the definitions a bit.

But as the old saying has it: abo ovo ledae incepit bellum troianum.

Counsellor, in law courts they call that a leading question. Typically, the Judge punishes you for those.Let me put it this way..

This is an International Court (your Country laws do not apply here)..
The "judge" is all-the-Forum-readers... and they may find you are aswering my question.. in a way it suggests you do not really want to answer the said question.

but that is your free speech rigth.. (and your credibility)

Aha - you want to play little games by changing the definitions a bit.

But as the old saying has it: abo ovo ledae incepit bellum troianum.

Counsellor, in law courts they call that a leading question. Typically, the Judge punishes you for those.

It would be nice if you put translations next to the 'old sayings' you use. My latin(?) is a little nonexistant.

The Lebanese have killed 24 people, 12 of which are soldiers.

The Israelis have killed over 100 people, only 13 of which have been militants. Lebanon's infrastructure has also been ruined.

The Canadians were simply another statistic for the Israelis.
Only 13 of which have been wearing hezbollah clothing. Given the nature of hezbollah, I'm willing to bet there were quite a few more people involved in hezbollah killed. Unless there's an international roster of all hezbollah members somewhere that I'm not aware of.

To put political pressure by the use of force with the intent of create fear is terrorism. Thanks for label the actions all by yourself. I didn't even tried to label Israel's actions as terrorism, but you...Well, you managed to do it pretty well, even putting the USA inside the terrorist bag.

no you idiot! only people who attack the west are terrorists! they have to practice islam and wear turbans, have long beards, and suicide bombing is their favourite flavour. if not, they are simply using "state of the art warfare tactics"

in case you have not realised, I was being sarcastic, and I in fact fully support your post. Note how they cleverly say "putting pressure" on the enemy, and not "terrorising" the enemy, because it sounds more organised. Organised terrorism, is still terrorism.

These soldiers who were killed were not killed by an act of terrorism, they were KIA, killed in action. The 2 soldiers were not kidnapped, they are POWs, prisoners of war. Please tell me how killing soldiers and taking POWs is terrorism.

Now, regarding the tactic of bombing infrastructure, regardless of whether or not it is terrorism. Israel has said it is NOT AT WAR with Lebanon, only with Hezbollah. Lebanon is not fighting Israel, Hezbollah is. So, I ask you, why is it that Israel is attacking targets that belong to Lebanon, and not Hezbollah? If it is to put pressure on Lebanon to fight Hezbollah, I shall change the example to give you a better view of how stupid that is. If Japan wants the US to fight North Korea, is it ok for Japan to bomb LAX and JFK, as well as many random suburbs, in order to put "pressure" on the US to rein in NK, because it is able to and is not? Or would it make more sense for Japan to attack NK itself?

Those targets that theoretically belong to lebanon have been used by Hezbollah against Israel thus making them targets for Israel.

I'm curious as to whether anyone has offered the Anti-Semite Defense yet? You know, the one where if you dare criticize Israeli policies, you're an Anti-Semite.