NationStates Jolt Archive

I'd like to ask all of the conservative christians on the board who denounce gay marriage: where the hell did the idea come from that marriage "belongs" to, or is even a creation of christianity? Last I checked, people had been getting married long before christianity ever existed, and throughout all of history, people of every religion and in every corner of the world have married without being involved even the slightest with the Christian church. So where the hell do christian conservatives get off claiming that marriage is christian and that gays don't have the right to be married because christianity doesn't allow it? Since when does christianity have a monopoly on marriage?

By giving one religion the right to define marriage within the constitution of a country, you are essentially allowing that single religion to impose its system of beliefs on every citizen of that country, and in doing so, you essentially become a christian state, abandoning all precepts of freedom of religion and separation of church and state that you may have had.

Furthermore, you've never seemed to express any problems with Hindus or Bhuddists or Muslims being married, and if it's against Christian religion for gays to be married, it must certainly be against your religion for peoples of other religions to be married (again, despite the fact that marriage clearly is not a christian creation or a christian concept), so why would you lash out against the ability of homosexuals to be married, while not caring one bit about the fact that the hindu down the street can be married? Is it because homophobia is more socially acceptable among conservatives than religious intolerance? It must be, because I can find no other explanation for this disgusting double standard.

You'll find pompous asses and self-absorbed muthas in every institution you run across, worry not.

Alrighty, I gay marriage thread. We havent had any of these in ages gee willacurs.

I don't believe I've ever seen a conservative christian on NSG. Aside from Jesussaves, of course.

I don't believe I've ever seen a conservative christian on NSG. Aside from Jesussaves, of course.
Im a conservative christian

I don't believe I've ever seen a conservative christian on NSG. Aside from Jesussaves, of course.

Are you kidding me? I hope that's sarcasm, because there was Neo Rogolia, and her cohort for the longest time.

I don't believe I've ever seen a conservative christian on NSG. Aside from Jesussaves, of course.
Whittier---?

Cornlieu?

Whittier---?

Cornlieu?
Yeah..but they don't count because, er...God hates them?

There is an active gay marriage thread already on this board....

Yeah..but they don't count because, er...God hates them?
I thought God hated gays... I'm so confused now...

Right... could I get some replies to my post, rather than meaningless banter, please?

There is an active gay marriage thread already on this board....

This isn't so much a "gay marriage" thread as it is a "christians claiming marriage as theirs" and "separation of church and state" thread.

isnt the "period." kinda redundant?

This isn't so much a "gay marriage" thread as it is a "christians claiming marriage as theirs" and "separation of church and state" thread.

Then go and argue.

isnt the "period." kinda redundant?
Not until menopause.

*waits for howls of laughter/bricks through windows*

Not until menopause.

*waits for howls of laughter/bricks through windows*

*howl of laughter*
you made me laugh:fluffle:

I don't believe I've ever seen a conservative christian on NSG. Aside from Jesussaves, of course.

::raises hand::

I'm one. Hi! Uh, I don't feel very qualified to answer this question, but I saw a similar question in an editorial in OpinionJournal and it got me thinking. So here's my perspective on marriage, as a Christian.

I believe that marriage was God's idea from the beginning (i.e., Adam and Eve, the first man and woman, in Eden). The book of Genesis is pretty clear on this. When mankind fell into sin, the glory of God reflected in us was darkened, but marriage remained as a picture of what God would one day do to redeem us.

Marriage, when viewed this way, is an image, almost an allegory, of the way Christ (as the husband) relates to his chosen people, the church (the wife). The love and self-sacrificial care of a husband for his wife reflects the sacrifice of Christ in dying for those he loved, while the loving respect of a wife for her husband reflects how we are to respond to Christ in love and obedience.

Obviously, there are differences. Human husbands and wives are equal in standing before God. But they do have, as male and female, specific roles to model.

Now, I don't know what to think about this constitutional amendment stuff. I'm suspicious of it because it seems like some fundamentalists are trying to find legitimacy for their view in some political process. To me, God is sovereign over politics, and judges, and people's hearts. He'll judge. I don't need the U.S. Constitution to tell me what's right and what's wrong.

But I do believe it dishonors God to call something "marriage" that goes against the way he has created it, and the specific roles he has given us as men and women.

If you're not a Christian, I don't expect you to be convinced by this. But please try to understand, this is the Christian perspective on marriage, and has been from the beginning.

::raises hand::

I'm one. Hi! Uh, I don't feel very qualified to answer this question, but I saw a similar question in an editorial in OpinionJournal and it got me thinking. So here's my perspective on marriage, as a Christian.

I believe that marriage was God's idea from the beginning (i.e., Adam and Eve, the first man and woman, in Eden). The book of Genesis is pretty clear on this. When mankind fell into sin, the glory of God reflected in us was darkened, but marriage remained as a picture of what God would one day do to redeem us.

Marriage, when viewed this way, is an image, almost an allegory, of the way Christ (as the husband) relates to his chosen people, the church (the wife). The love and self-sacrificial care of a husband for his wife reflects the sacrifice of Christ in dying for those he loved, while the loving respect of a wife for her husband reflects how we are to respond to Christ in love and obedience.

Obviously, there are differences. Human husbands and wives are equal in standing before God. But they do have, as male and female, specific roles to model.

Now, I don't know what to think about this constitutional amendment stuff. I'm suspicious of it because it seems like some fundamentalists are trying to find legitimacy for their view in some political process. To me, God is sovereign over politics, and judges, and people's hearts. He'll judge. I don't need the U.S. Constitution to tell me what's right and what's wrong.

But I do believe it dishonors God to call something "marriage" that goes against the way he has created it, and the specific roles he has given us as men and women.

If you're not a Christian, I don't expect you to be convinced by this. But please try to understand, this is the Christian perspective on marriage, and has been from the beginning.




Amen! What was said here is great!!!!!

I believe that marriage was God's idea from the beginning (i.e., Adam and Eve, the first man and woman, in Eden). The book of Genesis is pretty clear on this. When mankind fell into sin, the glory of God reflected in us was darkened, but marriage remained as a picture of what God would one day do to redeem us.

Therefore, making marriage a Jewish creation. ;)

SNIP

But, but, nobody is asking YOU to get married to someone of the same gender... I respect your opinion (even though I really, really, really do not understand it), but what does that have to do with me? If I want to get married, I do not see why your beliefs in Adam and Eve have anything to do with that. If my supposed religion would only perform marriages between people born in the same season, I do not think the sams should be the case for others outside my church...

And your response does not deal with the OP's suggestion that it should be equally abhorrent to you when Muslems or Buddhists get married, because that was not the case either in your Adam and Eve story. Not to mention mixed-race marriage, for that matter.

My religion doesn't recognise this thread.

::raises hand::

I'm one. Hi! Uh, I don't feel very qualified to answer this question, but I saw a similar question in an editorial in OpinionJournal and it got me thinking. So here's my perspective on marriage, as a Christian.

I believe that marriage was God's idea from the beginning (i.e., Adam and Eve, the first man and woman, in Eden). The book of Genesis is pretty clear on this. When mankind fell into sin, the glory of God reflected in us was darkened, but marriage remained as a picture of what God would one day do to redeem us.

Marriage, when viewed this way, is an image, almost an allegory, of the way Christ (as the husband) relates to his chosen people, the church (the wife). The love and self-sacrificial care of a husband for his wife reflects the sacrifice of Christ in dying for those he loved, while the loving respect of a wife for her husband reflects how we are to respond to Christ in love and obedience.

Obviously, there are differences. Human husbands and wives are equal in standing before God. But they do have, as male and female, specific roles to model.

Now, I don't know what to think about this constitutional amendment stuff. I'm suspicious of it because it seems like some fundamentalists are trying to find legitimacy for their view in some political process. To me, God is sovereign over politics, and judges, and people's hearts. He'll judge. I don't need the U.S. Constitution to tell me what's right and what's wrong.

But I do believe it dishonors God to call something "marriage" that goes against the way he has created it, and the specific roles he has given us as men and women.

If you're not a Christian, I don't expect you to be convinced by this. But please try to understand, this is the Christian perspective on marriage, and has been from the beginning.
which makes it very right for christians to engage in christian marriage but has nothing to do with secular institutions. why should non-christians be restricted to christian rules?

Is it because homophobia is more socially acceptable among conservatives than religious intolerance? It must be, because I can find no other explanation for this disgusting double standard.

The explanation is nowhere near that complex, but unfortunately just as saddening. It all boils down to the fact that most people tend to genuinely forget those other religions exist.

But, but, nobody is asking YOU to get married to someone of the same gender... I respect your opinion (even though I really, really, really do not understand it), but what does that have to do with me? If I want to get married, I do not see why your beliefs in Adam and Eve have anything to do with that. If my supposed religion would only perform marriages between people born in the same season, I do not think the sams should be the case for others outside my church...

And your response does not deal with the OP's suggestion that it should be equally abhorrent to you when Muslems or Buddhists get married, because that was not the case either in your Adam and Eve story. Not to mention mixed-race marriage, for that matter.
I'm gonna be blunt.

Conservative Christians do not fit with the idea of a secular government. Period. They are simply not compatible with the concept of democratic liberty. Their fundamental religious values command them to follow the rules of their faith down to the letter; by allowing others to violate them, they would, in effect, be condoning behavior they see as deviant from God's plan. Further, fundamental Christians see it as an imperative to convert non-Christians into their faith. This would not be achieved by allowing people to engage in behavior inconsistent with Christian principles.

With respect to these people's beliefs, a "separation of church and state" can never be fulfilled because they must always abide by their religion and never take any actions that would condone behaviors that conflict with Christian beliefs and must do their best to spread the word of God. By allowing gay couples to marry, even in a secularized fashion that discludes the Church entirely, they would be violating the tenants of their faith. Therefore, any arguments for personal liberty or regard for the separation of church and state are null and void in their eyes. If someone is a true fundamental Christian, they will never allow for gay marriage to occur. That's just a simple fact.

But if they are judging people doesn't that also go against the bible's teachings?

But if they are judging people doesn't that also go against the bible's teachings?
No, because they aren't judging people by not supporting gay marriage measures; they are attempting to prevent sinful behavior from being condoned, and that is what their faith requires them to do. Like I said, it's that's just part of being a fundamental Christian.

I don't believe I've ever seen a conservative christian on NSG. Aside from Jesussaves, of course.

Jesussaves was a puppet, and was a pansie compared to our "friend" VoteEarly.

But, but, nobody is asking YOU to get married to someone of the same gender... I respect your opinion (even though I really, really, really do not understand it), but what does that have to do with me? If I want to get married, I do not see why your beliefs in Adam and Eve have anything to do with that. If my supposed religion would only perform marriages between people born in the same season, I do not think the sams should be the case for others outside my church...

Exactly. Let's say there was some sect of christians more hardcore than you that was able to gain some serious political clout. Let's say this sect not only opposes gay marriage, but also opposes the right of anyone who is infertile from being married. Now, let's say you find the girl of your dreams and fall in love, but there's just one problem - she is infertile, and that hardcore christian sect has just been able to push through legislation which redifines marriage as being "between a man and woman who are both fertile". Now, because this christian sect is imposing its set of beliefs on the rest of the country, you and your lovely girlfriend can no longer be married, or adopt children. Now that it's no longer your religion that the state is adopting, separation of church and state doesn't look like such a bad idea, does it?

My religion doesn't recognise this thread.
Oh yeah? Well, my religion doesn't recognise that your religion doesn't recognise this thread.

I declare a holy war!

I don't believe I've ever seen a conservative christian on NSG. Aside from Jesussaves, of course.
what am I chopped suey?

:(

what am I chopped suey?

:(

Remember, it's hard for people to associate you with being one of NS General's conservative Christians if you spend most of your time in social threads... ;)

Oh yeah? Well, my religion doesn't recognise that your religion doesn't recognise this thread.

I declare a holy war!

Sarkhaan, you cannot declare a holy war without first filling out the "Holy War Declaration" Document, along with a copy for documentation. You must include in the application the size of your forces, your enemy, the reasons for declaration and location of battlegrounds. It must be turned in at one of our local offices, and you will recieve confirmation and approval within 3-5 business days.

Sarkhaan, you cannot declare a holy war without first filling out the "Holy War Declaration" Document, along with a copy for documentation. You must include in the application the size of your forces, your enemy, the reasons for declaration and location of battlegrounds. It must be turned in at one of our local offices, and you will recieve confirmation and approval within 3-5 business days.
:(


can I declare a holy argument?

:(


can I declare a holy argument?

:fluffle: You made my day. Hell, that was so awesome it made my mom's day.

Except she didn't read it but if she had've....

Remember, it's hard for people to associate you with being one of NS General's conservative Christians if you spend most of your time in social threads... ;)
I get tired of the "christians are stupid, all it's farytayles i can't spell but i know betterthand you becuz my frend said that the bible sayd that blah blah blah, if you look it up and prove me wrong u r brainwashed i am so cool because i am atheist" threds. ;)

I get tired of the "christians are stupid, all it's farytayles i can't spell but i know betterthand you becuz my frend said that the bible sayd that blah blah blah, if you look it up and prove me wrong u r brainwashed i am so cool because i am atheist" threds. ;)

Well, maybe you wouldn't get tired of them so quickly if you would actually respond to the arguments made in them rather than complain about non-existant grammatical and spelling errors.

:(


can I declare a holy argument?

Prerequisites for "Holy Argument": Bottle of Apple Shnaps and loud heavy metal.

Well, maybe you wouldn't get tired of them so quickly if you would actually respond to the arguments made in them rather than complain about non-existant grammatical and spelling errors.
did you hear that? that was a joke, flying right over your head.

Prerequisites for "Holy Argument": Bottle of Apple Shnaps and loud heavy metal.
good to go! w00t!

Well, maybe you wouldn't get tired of them so quickly if you would actually respond to the arguments made in them rather than complain about non-existant grammatical and spelling errors.
I don't think you have seen the threds I talk about, most of them have no intelligent points.

As for this thred?

I am not against gay marriage, so no biggie, I was just worried about the comment of "no conservative christians" on NSG.

did you hear that? that was a joke, flying right over your head.
I'm sorry, but I didn't create this thread to joke, I created it to have a meaningful discussion. I guess I'm in the wrong place.

I'm sorry, but I didn't create this thread to joke, I created it to have a meaningful discussion. I guess I'm in the wrong place.
not every post has to be serious and meaningful. It's an online forum...don't take it so seriously. Additionally, there are about a dozen threads relating to gay marriage, seperation of church and state, etc.

Smunkee was responding to someones post. You asked a question to conservative christians. Someone said we don't have any. Smunkee is one (although, not your every-day conservative christian). Therefore, she responded. Someone else said you couldn't tell because she doesn't post in that kind of thread. She said that she stays in social threads because she gets tired of the whole "You're christian so you must be stupid" threads.

makes sense really.

I'm sorry, but I didn't create this thread to joke, I created it to have a meaningful discussion. I guess I'm in the wrong place.

Welcome to NS General comrade! You will find NOTHING meaningful here!:fluffle:

Welcome to NS General comrade! You will find NOTHING meaningful here!:fluffle:
Objection!
There's lots of humour (sometiems unitentional) here.
That's meaningful. :)

Objection!
There's lots of humour (sometiems unitentional) here.
That's meaningful. :)

....I'll allow it!