NationStates Jolt Archive

Generally the vegetarians and vegans you hear about are the ones doing some preaching about it. Millions of others just do it, and leave it at that. So why are you letting this small group of people poison your perception of vegetarians/vegans (if indeed you have a negative perception)?

Because vegetarians and vegans kill animals anyway. Why do they try and hide that just because they dont eat them?

Because vegetarians and vegans kill animals anyway. Why do they try and hide that just because they dont eat them?

How do they do that?

Because vegetarians and vegans kill animals anyway. Why do they try and hide that just because they dont eat them?
So you feel that they, because of their diet, are expressing a superiority to you.

You DO realise, I hope, that the reasons for vegatarianism/veganism are much more varied than "I don't want to eat dead animals"...

because their trying to force me to conform to certain lifestyle against my will and generally won't listen to reason.

How do they do that?

Pesticides kill the insects. Harvesting kills the snakes, mice, bunnies, etc.

Not only that, you probably live in a house or building which was built on land once occupied by animals. You probably drive a car. You probably buy things made in factories which pollute. You probably wear or have used something leather. You get the idea.

Because they're trying to force me to conform to a certain lifestyle against my will and generally won't listen to reason.

I think you missed "Millions of others just do it, and leave it at that."

because their trying to force me to conform to certain lifestyle against my will and generally won't listen to reason.
Uh-huh. So you are saying that the radicals define the group...that millions of people passively following a certain diet are 'forcing you to conform to a certain lifestyle'? Do you hate diabetics too for trying to force you to stop eating sugar?

You DO realise, I hope, that the reasons for vegatarianism/veganism are much more varied than "I don't want to eat dead animals"...

Uh, like what?

Uh, like what?

Like "crops are more efficient at providing nutrition than meat".

Generally the vegetarians and vegans you hear about are the ones doing some preaching about it. Millions of others just do it, and leave it at that. So why are you letting this small group of people poison your perception of vegetarians/vegans (if indeed you have a negative perception)?
Because they do. This is how all things work. Individuals are not obliged to research every group that may exist. Instead, our perception is influenced by the those are somewhat public in their expressions regarding or representing the concerned group. Vegetarians, Communists, Christians, Feminists, Neo-Nazis, Buddhists, Neo-cons, Black-people, sports-enthusiasts, and students are all pidgeon-holed this way. Instead of complaining, perhaps you could publicly demonstrate yourself as a counter example.

Vegetarians are those who eat vegetals and vegetal by-producs. That's everyone.

Vegans only eat people and vegetals from the Vegan solar system.

Pesticides kill the insects. Harvesting kills the snakes, mice, bunnies, etc.

Not only that, you probably live in a house or building which was built on land once occupied by animals. You probably drive a car. You probably buy things made in factories which pollute. You probably wear or have used something leather. You get the idea.
IF the only reason was a distaste for the slaughter of animals, then vegetarian/vegans would still come out ahead of those who eat meat...unless you happen to be a carnivore who does not eat any fruits, grains or veggies, or you don't live in a house or drive a car or wear leather...

So you feel that they, because of their diet, are expressing a superiority to you.

yes, very much so probably 90% of the vegens I have met think they are enlightend geniuses and we, lesse meat eating barbarians are redneck scum befouling the earth

one even saying that jesus was a vegan and that meat-eaters go to hell

sorry but until i see more rational vegans i am not obliged to believe otherwise

Uh, like what?
Illness for one...some people can not eat meat because of medical reasons (perhaps high cholesterol, perhaps other).

Religious reasons. Many hindus are vegans as a matter of course. Millions in fact.

Health. A lot of domesticated animals are pumped full of hormones, or are exposed to chemicals that then reside in their fat. Wild animals can be extremely polluted in this way...depending on where they feed/drink and so on. Some people just don't like to get their calories from meat when they can get them from other sources.

Etc.

Bah, they can eat whatever they want, as long as they don't push their views on me. I don't care what you chose to eat or don't eat.

Here's a little excerpt from an anti-PETA rant, this part addressing "it takes 5,000 gallons of water to produce one pound of beef and only 20 gallons to produce one pound of wheat.":
How many vegetarians drive a car? To make a car (including tires), it takes about 40,000 gallons of fresh water. That's not including the gas it takes to run the car, the electricity to run the gas station, the water used to create the boat that brought your precious oil, the water used to create the pavement you drive on, the destruction of toxic chemicals that went into creating your clothes, and the electricity you use every day to send me stupid emails over the internet. Every year you are directly responsible for the consumption of billions of gallons of water. There are 26 million people suffering preventable brain damage from iodine deficiency, and another 1.5 billion people at risk. Nevermind that, you have animals to save. By driving your cars, you pump billions of tons of poison into the atmosphere and you're slowly killing us all. The computer you use requires 250 watts of electricity, let alone the billions of computers required to keep you on the internet. All consuming energy. All contributing to pollution. Let's just ignore those minor hypocrisies. Someone wants to enjoy a burger and you'll be damned if you're going to let them.

Because they do. This is how all things work. Individuals are not obliged to research every group that may exist. Instead, our perception is influenced by the those are somewhat public in their expressions regarding or representing the concerned group. Vegetarians, Communists, Christians, Feminists, Neo-Nazis, Buddhists, Neo-cons, Black-people, sports-enthusiasts, and students are all pidgeon-holed this way. Instead of complaining, perhaps you could publicly demonstrate yourself as a counter example.
I disagree. I think individuals should absolutely research groups they have formed an uniformed opinion on....or at the very least, question that uniformed opinion and what has shaped it.

And I'm not a vegetarian or a vegan.

yes, very much so probably 90% of the vegens I have met think they are enlightend geniuses and we, lesse meat eating barbarians are redneck scum befouling the earth

one even saying that jesus was a vegan and that meat-eaters go to hell

sorry but until i see more rational vegans i am not obliged to believe otherwise
Do you question everyone you meet as to their dietary habits?

Pesticides kill the insects. Harvesting kills the snakes, mice, bunnies, etc.

Not only that, you probably live in a house or building which was built on land once occupied by animals. You probably drive a car. You probably buy things made in factories which pollute. You probably wear or have used something leather. You get the idea.

Yeah, but I do not intend to kill any animals. Vegans don't wear leather. I don't think that Vegetarians or Vegans deny that they are part of a system of which they don't like -- that is why they have altered their behavior in a specific way -- but attempting to make a change for what you think is better is surely good and defensible.

Uh-huh. So you are saying that the radicals define the group...that millions of people passively following a certain diet are 'forcing you to conform to a certain lifestyle'? Do you hate diabetics too for trying to force you to stop eating sugar?

diabetics don't protest for sugarcane rights if you think meat is gross/morally questionable then don't eat it i've got no quarrel with you what i do have a quarrel with is people trying to tell grown adults what they can or cannot eat

Yeah, but I do not intend to kill any animals. Vegans don't wear leather. I don't think that Vegetarians or Vegans deny that they are part of a system of which they don't like -- that is why they have altered their behavior in a specific way -- but attempting to make a change for what you think is better is surely good and defensible.
Ah, but if they don't save the world from every evil, and live in a tent in a tree making sure to sweep where they walk, then they must be hypocrites.

I think the point of this thread is that most vegetarians aren't trying to make you do anything.


And yes, please explain how a vegan continues to kill animals, please.

You know, I could perhaps go vegetarian, but not vegan. That's too hard core for me:(

diabetics don't protest for sugarcane rights if you think meat is gross/morally questionable then don't eat it i've got no quarrel with you what i do have a quarrel with is people trying to tell grown adults what they can or cannot eat
Yeah, those damn doctors and nurses, trying to tell people about good eating practices...

Again...most vegetarians and vegans don't talk about their eating habits or moralise about it. You focus entirely on those that do. Why?

Ah, but if they don't save the world from every evil, and live in a tent in a tree making sure to sweep where they walk, then they must be hypocrites.


lol. Don't forget only use leaves after going to the washroom, I think, well maybe that's wrong, too.

Do you question everyone you meet as to their dietary habits?

no i really don't care what you eat which is the point i'm trying to make people shouldn't care what others do with their personal lives

Here's a little excerpt from an anti-PETA rant, this part addressing "it takes 5,000 gallons of water to produce one pound of beef and only 20 gallons to produce one pound of wheat.":

And it addresses it by not addressing it at all... how convincing.

A question to the biologists/doctors here: how much meat should a human consume to stay healthy ? Is eating no meat unhealthy ? Is eating meat every day unhealthy ? Is it true that one should eat meat about twice a week, no more, no less ?

no i really don't care
Then how do you know that the people you meet are vegan/vegetarian or not? If you only pay attention to the ones who lecture you, and assume that all people who eat that way are preachy, you blind yourself to the fact that many people choose this lifestyle and that is that.

I HATE it when someone claims to be a vegetarian and eats fish it's like saying "I'm a non-smoker.....except for ciggarettes". These people really piss me off. I dated a vegetarian once, it was ok - she had no problems cooking me meat (sounds a bit dodgy but you know what I mean). :)

I thought Vegans were people from Las Vegas.

And it addresses it by not addressing it at all... how convincing.

A question to the biologists/doctors here: how much meat should a human consume to stay healthy ? Is eating no meat unhealthy ? Is eating meat every day unhealthy ? Is it true that one should eat meat about twice a week, no more, no less ?
I definately believe we eat more than necessary...meat in particular. We are real gluttons. Every meal does NOT have to be planned around meat. I think it's an issue that goes back to our poorer times...I see it in developing countries and when people immigrate here...they may not have been able to afford much meat, but when they come here and make a bit more money, it's meat all the time! Feast or famine is what they're used to...but the famine may not come...

Yeah, those damn doctors and nurses, trying to tell people about good eating practices...

Again...most vegetarians and vegans don't talk about their eating habits or moralise about it. You focus entirely on those that do. Why?

because a good deal of them i've talked to do, again i don't care what you eat or do in your house what i do care about is people forcing their life style on others

When I was a vegan it was kinda a non-issue, I never really mentioned it much, didn't go to eat with people, didn't eat in front of people, ect.

People would find out and make a huge issue of it "you don't eat meat?! or drink milk?! or even eggs?! you are weird, I eat meat we are supposed to eat meat, don't you know you will die if you don't eat it?"

:rolleyes:

Now I am on a restricted diet that I have to be on, instead of one I feel like I should be on, and people are still the same

"you don't eat bread? or pie? or donuts? or hamburgers? or hot dogs? or funnel cakes? or pancakes? or pasta? I would just die, you can't live without smores, what can you eat?! can you eat anything? I would just kill myself if I had to eat like that, I would just die"
:rolleyes:

it's none of my business what anyone else eats and it's none of thiers what I choose to eat or not eat for any reason. Seriously people if I don't eat the exact same thing that you do, I am not going to "die" or live a meaningless life it's food, that's all it is, it's just food.

[/rant]

I HATE it when someone claims to be a vegetarian and eats fish it's like saying "I'm a non-smoker.....except for ciggarettes". These people really piss me off. I dated a vegetarian once, it was ok - she had no problems cooking me meat (sounds a bit dodgy but you know what I mean). :)
Well, there are different kinds of vegetarians. Some can eat eggs, cheese...drink milk and such...vegans don't eat any animal products at all. Many vegetarians will allow themselves to eat certain seafoods, but shun all other meat.

And it addresses it by not addressing it at all... how convincing.


Notice the phrase excerpt? Yeah. That portion was pointing out hypocrisy in that statement.

because a good deal of them i've talked to do, again i don't care what you eat or do in your house what i do care about is people forcing their life style on others
That's fine...just make it clear if you go on an anti-vegatarian/vegan rant that you are talking ONLY about those who try to force you to eat the same. People make some pretty stupid assumptions about others once it's discovered they are vegetarian/vegan...

People would find out and make a huge issue of it "you don't eat meat?! or drink milk?! or even eggs?! you are weird, I eat meat we are supposed to eat meat, don't you know you will die if you don't eat it?"

Yes...people pretend that it's just the vegans/vegetarians going on rampages about what you should and shouldn't eat...a lot of people feel that they just have to question why someone eats a certain way, and go on about it...and I'm talking about meat-eaters here.

When I was a vegan it was kinda a non-issue, I never really mentioned it much, didn't go to eat with people, didn't eat in front of people, ect.

People would find out and make a huge issue of it "you don't eat meat?! or drink milk?! or even eggs?! you are weird, I eat meat we are supposed to eat meat, don't you know you will die if you don't eat it?"

:rolleyes:

Now I am on a restricted diet that I have to be on, instead of one I feel like I should be on, and people are still the same

"you don't eat bread? or pie? or donuts? or hamburgers? or hot dogs? or funnel cakes? or pancakes? or pasta? I would just die, you can't live without smores, what can you eat?! can you eat anything? I would just kill myself if I had to eat like that, I would just die"
:rolleyes:

it's none of my business what anyone else eats and it's none of thiers what I choose to eat or not eat for any reason. Seriously people if I don't eat the exact same thing that you do, I am not going to "die" or live a meaningless life it's food, that's all it is, it's just food.

[/rant]

exactly what i'm talking about i think no higher of preachy omnivores than preachy vegans

Notice the phrase excerpt? Yeah. That portion was pointing out hypocrisy in that statement.

So you picked the insignificant part ? Why ?

Uh-huh. So you are saying that the radicals define the group...that millions of people passively following a certain diet are 'forcing you to conform to a certain lifestyle'? Do you hate diabetics too for trying to force you to stop eating sugar?
:headbang: :headbang: :headbang:
First off diabetics never stop eating sugar or even try stopping others from eating it. Just have to monitor the amount of carbohydrates (sugar and starch) taken in and other stuff. I've been diabetic for 23 years and without sugar I'd be dead.

PRO-SUGAR EATING!!!!!:)

The minority are forcing a (negative) perception of veganism/vegetarianism because they have the biggest mouth. That, and this same minority seems constantly full of shit, as they seem to always claim that humans weren't designed to eat meat, your daddy wants to kill harmless, innocent animals, etc.

When have you seen a protest that promotes unzealous veganism or vegetarianism? I for one have never seen a protest with signs "We don't want to eat meat; you can if you want" or "Allow us to eat the way we please". Instead, all I see is "Meat is murder" etc.

Well, there are different kinds of vegetarians. Some can eat eggs, cheese...drink milk and such...vegans don't eat any animal products at all. Many vegetarians will allow themselves to eat certain seafoods, but shun all other meat.

But someone who claims to not eat animals (vegetarian) and then does negates their vegetarianism. FISH ARE ANIMALS

And it addresses it by not addressing it at all... how convincing.

A question to the biologists/doctors here: how much meat should a human consume to stay healthy ? Is eating no meat unhealthy ? Is eating meat every day unhealthy ? Is it true that one should eat meat about twice a week, no more, no less ?
I think this is true.

When have you seen a protest that promotes unzealous veganism or vegetarianism? I for one have never seen a protest with signs "We don't want to eat meat; you can if you want"
I might start one with that sign...

I disagree. I think individuals should absolutely research groups they have formed an uniformed opinion on....or at the very least, question that uniformed opinion and what has shaped it.

And I'm not a vegetarian or a vegan.
That is ridiculous. You seem to be proposing that all groups that have ever existed should be researched by everyone in order for them to form an opinion on them. People should research the groups they want to research. Their opinions will be inevitably be formed by research (if they have done any), experience (not always as valuable as those who possess it claim), and their perception of it (sourced from the opinions and actions of others, belonging to the said group, and not). In an ideal world everyone would research everything they formed an opinion on. But this is not an ideal world. Instead, groups have to market themselves. To contest this state of affairs is semantics, because it cannot change (without an all-pervasive big brother state).

Good to hear you aren't a vego or a vego (spelt the same, pronounced differently). I don't like the ones that I meet. I find them nieve, idealistic, and most often pretentious.

A question to the biologists/doctors here: how much meat should a human consume to stay healthy ? Is eating no meat unhealthy ? Is eating meat every day unhealthy ? Is it true that one should eat meat about twice a week, no more, no less ?I'm neither, but being a vegan, I've made it my business to find out.

It's healthy to eat meat & fish a couple of times a week. It's unhealthy to eat meat & fish every day. It's unhealthy not to eat meat & fish a few times a week, and it's unhealthy to the point of being dangerous, not to eat animal products at all.

But that's loose guidelines & by no means immutable truths. Virtually any amount of meat consumption, or lack of it, can be perfectly healthy if you go about it right. The abobe "healthy/unhealthy" statements are only true if you know fuck-all about your dietary requirements & couldn't care less.

There's nothing unhealthy about vegetarianism or veganism, if you watch what you eat.

For specifics, I'd advise you to read a couple of books on the subject, because it's beyond the scope of a forum post.

But someone who claims to not eat animals (vegetarian) and then does negates their vegetarianism. FISH ARE ANIMALS
yeah, I got into that with people when I was vegan after the "I can't believe you don't eat meat and byproducts" rant they start with the stupid questions

"but you eat fish right?"
"no fish is meat"
"no it's not I mean they are animals, but you know not meat, meat is red"
"then chicken isn't meat":confused:
"uh, yeah you can eat chicken and fish"
"and pork?"
"no that's meat"
"white meat"
"yeah"
"like chicken and fish?"
"oh, can you eat bologna?"

:headbang:

And it addresses it by not addressing it at all... how convincing.

A question to the biologists/doctors here: how much meat should a human consume to stay healthy ? Is eating no meat unhealthy ? Is eating meat every day unhealthy ? Is it true that one should eat meat about twice a week, no more, no less ?

the only meat i've had this week was one hambuger the rest has been mostly english muffins and jell-o

The minority are forcing a (negative) perception of veganism/vegetarianism because they have the biggest mouth. That, and this same minority seems constantly full of shit, as they seem to always claim that humans weren't designed to eat meat, your daddy wants to kill harmless, innocent animals, etc.

When have you seen a protest that promotes unzealous veganism or vegetarianism? I for one have never seen a protest with signs "We don't want to eat meat; you can if you want" or "Allow us to eat the way we please". Instead, all I see is "Meat is murder" etc.

Ah...pointless protests:

http://www.bollox.net/index.php?id=62

:D

Unless you are vegan/vegetarian for medical/health reasons, vegetarianism and veganism are inherently stupid and deserve no better than stupid questions to be answered with all that can be given by vegetarians/vegans without health reasons - stupid answers.

You know, I could perhaps go vegetarian, but not vegan. That's too hard core for me:(

My sister's a vegan, and I respect her for it; I'm "just" a vegetarian, and for now I just wouldn't know how to adapt to going vegan.

Good luck to you if you do go vegetarian.

I've met a hell of a lot of preachy meat-eaters in my life. I usually avoid the topic myself; whenever people discover I'm a vegetarian, they assume I'm some sort of weirdo and figure they have to "reason" me out of it. I've never met any proselytising vegetarians - only proselytising meat-eaters.

Anyway... Good thread, Sinuhue, as always. ;)

Unless you are vegan/vegetarian for medical/health reasons, vegetarianism and veganism are inherently stupid

Thank you for proving Sinuhue's point. Moron.

yeah, I got into that with people when I was vegan after the "I can't believe you don't eat meat and byproducts" rant they start with the stupid questions

"but you eat fish right?"
"no fish is meat"
"no it's not I mean they are animals, but you know not meat, meat is red"
"then chicken isn't meat":confused:
"uh, yeah you can eat chicken and fish"
"and pork?"
"no that's meat"
"white meat"
"yeah"
"like chicken and fish?"
"oh, can you eat bologna?"

:headbang:

You never cease to amuse. :fluffle: It bugs the living crap outta me when people try claiming fish are not animals. This only works if you're a hardcore zen buddhist who believes that anything under ground level is a vegetable - to them whales/sharks etc. are vegetables. ;)

Unless you are vegan/vegetarian for medical/health reasons, vegetarianism and veganism are inherently stupid and deserve no better than stupid questions to be answered with all that can be given by vegetarians/vegans without health reasons - stupid answers.

Why ? I am not a vegetarian, but I can understand how people may for instance not wish to eat animals for moral reasons. Either because of concern for the animal, or out of concern for the starving kids in Africa.

Thank you for proving Sinuhue's point. Moron.
Thanks for not fucking listening, hypocrite.

Unless you are vegan/vegetarian for medical/health reasons, vegetarianism and veganism are inherently stupid and deserve no better than stupid questions to be answered with all that can be given by vegetarians/vegans without health reasons - stupid answers.What the hell does that even mean?

Hang on, I'll shave, cook & eat my dog & see if it makes more sense afterwards.

Unless you are vegan/vegetarian for medical/health reasons, vegetarianism and veganism are inherently stupid and deserve no better than stupid questions to be answered with all that can be given by vegetarians/vegans without health reasons - stupid answers.

2 questions...why do you care what they eat? how does another persons diet affect you?

Why ? I am not a vegetarian, but I can understand how people may for instance not wish to eat animals for moral reasons. Either because of concern for the animal, or for concern of the starving kids in Africa.
That is exactly what I am talking about. It is bullshit to do it for moral reasons. To do it for moral reasons mean you automatically place yourself above other people who don't do it for moral reasons, whether you express that opinion openly or not or whether you even realise it. You might think the big mouths who talk about being vegetarians for moral reasons are giving you a bad name, but they arn't. They are expressing the same opinion you would express if you were a big, loud jackass too.

What the hell does that even mean?

Hang on, I'll shave, cook & eat my dog & see if it makes more sense afterwards.

*Rofl*

Does it???? :D

2 questions...why do you care what they eat? how does another persons diet affect you?
I couldn't care less, but it's still stupid.

Vegetarians are easy enough to accept on the basis of is simple healthiness or genuine and insightful religious conviction (like the Hindus).


Vegans are in my experience almost invariably off-kilter, joykills, weirdos.

That is exactly what I am talking about. It is bullshit to do it for moral reasons. To do it for moral reasons mean you automatically place yourself above other people who don't do it for moral reasons, whether you express that opinion openly or not or whether you even realise it.

And that is a bad thing because.... ?

And that is a bad thing because.... ?
It's stupid. That is the only statement I make.

I pretty much vegetarian...NOT! Fooled ya, ha!:p

But no, I only eat meat like 10 times a year:)

To do it for moral reasons mean you automatically place yourself above other people who don't do it for moral reasons…

Only in your mind and others' who agree with you. If you think that eating meat is wrong, why on earth should you carry on eating it just to protect the feelings of someone who thinks you're being morally arrogant?

That is exactly what I am talking about. It is bullshit to do it for moral reasons. To do it for moral reasons mean you automatically place yourself above other people who don't do it for moral reasons, whether you express that opinion openly or not or whether you even realise it. You might think the big mouths who talk about being vegetarians for moral reasons are giving you a bad name, but they arn't. They are expressing the same opinion you would express if you were a big, loud jackass too.

they don't eat meat i do, where is the conflict in that if i were on a desert island with a vegan and all we had was one crate of bacon, there would still be no conflict i get bacon he can have crate*



*high in fiber

*Rofl*

Does it???? :DDunno.. My girl won't let me shave the dog & the cat apparently figured out what I was up to.

Illness for one...some people can not eat meat because of medical reasons (perhaps high cholesterol, perhaps other).

Well, shit happens I guess. I wouldnt consider labeling these people as vegans because they dont have a choice in the matter.

Religious reasons. Many hindus are vegans as a matter of course. Millions in fact.

Which goes under the "holier than thou" attitude.

Health. A lot of domesticated animals are pumped full of hormones, or are exposed to chemicals that then reside in their fat. Wild animals can be extremely polluted in this way...depending on where they feed/drink and so on. Some people just don't like to get their calories from meat when they can get them from other sources.

I work with this guy, who is one of those said vegan Hindus. He is a slender guy, doesnt eat meat or animal products, works out...

He had a heart attack 3 weeks ago.

That is exactly what I am talking about. It is bullshit to do it for moral reasons. To do it for moral reasons mean you automatically place yourself above other people who don't do it for moral reasons,

Well, d'uh. If you do something for "moral" (I prefer the term "ethical") reasons, then you believe that what you're doing is right, and that doing the opposite would be wrong (or at least not as good). Welcome to basic logic.

By your utterly flawed logic, anyone who does anything because he thinks it's right shouldn't do it, because he's thereby "placing himself above other people".

Which goes under the "holier than thou" attitude.

Which one person here calls stupid, and you do not seem to approve of either.

Why ? Seriously, what is wrong with doing what you believe is right ?

He had a heart attack 3 weeks ago.

whoa is that even possible what vegetable/fruit/grain has a lot of cholesterol?

maybe he ate a lot of doughnuts....

I work with this guy, who is one of those said vegan Hindus. He is a slender guy, doesnt eat meat or animal products, works out...

He had a heart attack 3 weeks ago.
And it's not like plants are free from genetic engineering and drugs. Organic plants are subject to pesticides banned on non-organic plants years ago.

Well, d'uh. If you do something for "moral" (I prefer the term "ethical") reasons, then you believe that what you're doing is right, and that doing the opposite would be wrong (or at least not as good). Welcome to basic logic.
The entire complaint and topic was people preaching about veganism gave vegans a bad name - it doesn't. They are expressing what all moralist vegans inherently commit to when they decide eating meat is immoral. Welcome to topic logic 101.

The entire complaint and topic was people preaching about veganism gave vegans a bad name - it doesn't. They are expressing what all moralist vegans inherently commit to when they decide eating meat is immoral. Welcome to topic logic 101.

i don't care what they think its the vocalisation that bugs me but i guess you could argue that vocalisation is inevitable once they actually believe that

Dunno.. My girl won't let me shave the dog & the cat apparently figured out what I was up to.

Yeah cat's are smart....bastards but smart ones. :p

Why ? Seriously, what is wrong with doing what you believe is right ?

It offends people, apparently. Or so sayeth our dear Pantless Hero, whose ability to use even basic reasoning I'm seriously starting to question.


The entire complaint and topic was people preaching about veganism gave vegans a bad name - it doesn't. They are expressing what all moralist vegans inherently commit to when they decide eating meat is immoral.

The difference (which apparently escapes you) is that the former actively try to change you, whereas the latter are just doing what they believe is right, without trying to influence you in any way. I repeat that by your logic (or lack thereof), nobody should do what they feel is right any more. Giving money to charity, for example. If I give money to charity and you don't, should I stop because you may be offended at potentially being deemed less ethical than I am?

The entire complaint and topic was people preaching about veganism gave vegans a bad name - it doesn't. They are expressing what all moralist vegans inherently commit to when they decide eating meat is immoral. Welcome to topic logic 101.

I see your point.
But why is this distinction perceived as negative ? People like Jesus, Mother Teresa and peaceful monks of many different religions also acted in ways that can be argued to be "better" than that of the average man, yet are seldomn snubbed - and instead tend to be admired.

He had a heart attack 3 weeks ago.

It lowers the chances of heart attack but you're always at some risk. *shrugs* I hope he's okay. I'm a vegetarian, one of my friends assumes that I'm a preachy veg. it's really annoying because I was telling her a while ago I went to a protest and she rolled her eyes and really bitchily (I like that word) said: "It wasn't about meat was it?" I have never given someone hell for eating meat. I have never was told her to stop eating it or tried to press my views on her and she... agh. Anyway the only time I talk about it is when someone (usually my brother or father) brings it up and tells me it's bad for my health, it's pointless, why are you doing it etc. Then when I do defend myself I get labled. So yes, I try not to talk about it but right now I felt like a little rant. It really also annoys me when people bring up diet to ask why I'm vegetarian to argue about it and then put me down. When some who eats meat does it it's just as bad as a vegan/vegetarian.

Life is good; eat it up.

That is exactly what I am talking about. It is bullshit to do it for moral reasons. To do it for moral reasons mean you automatically place yourself above other people who don't do it for moral reasons, whether you express that opinion openly or not or whether you even realise it. You might think the big mouths who talk about being vegetarians for moral reasons are giving you a bad name, but they arn't. They are expressing the same opinion you would express if you were a big, loud jackass too.


I know! just like any fucking idiot that dose anything because he thinks it's the right thing to do.

Like how libertarians are so stupid because they have certain political views and they think those views are superior to other views they have heard about.

Like how cops are so stupid for thinking its wrong to steal or kill people and even dumber for doing anythign about it. What the hell is that all about? morons.

What kind of upitty, backwards, caveman-mentality, shit-for-brains would do something like donate to charity or give aid to the homeless if they weren't holier-than-thou, puke-buckets who believe everyone else is below them for not doing the same.

stupid stupid stupid

Kazus & The Pantless in case you're curious, I'm first & foremost a vegan for the same reason that you aren't; I feel like it.

Some people don't fancy eating squids. Others get a bit pale when handed a plate full fried spider remains. I get a bit queasy at the thought of gobbling down the remains of dead animals & their bodyfluids.

I fail to see why your diet is any more justified or legitimate than mine. In fact, there's some pretty good arguments for not eating meat, like the sheer inefficiency of animal production, pollution & the general treatment of livestock. I see no particularly compelling arguments for not being vegan, so if the legitimacy of dietary choices is in question, yours would appear to be the "stupid" diet.

In the end though, I don't give a flying fuck what you eat, as long as you're not harming anyone but yourselves, and I don't see why the dietary choices of others should matter to you.

EDIT: Yea, cats are pretty clever Shaolin. Mine's only a bastard when it nicks food from the table though.

i don't care what they think its the vocalisation that bugs me but i guess you could argue that vocalisation is inevitable once they actually believe that

You could, but you'd be wrong. As I said earlier, I avoid bringing up the topic.

Based on my experience, I could say that all meat-eaters feel some sort of need to bash vegetarians and to proselytise meat-eating. But I'm smart enough to know that's not true either.

yes, in fact, i believe that meat eaters who think thaty have a superior diet must have the IQ of of a turtle for believing such trite :rolleyes:

Because vegetarians and vegans kill animals anyway. Why do they try and hide that just because they dont eat them?
I can honestly say i have never killed an animal in my whole life.
Except for that drunken rat that went too far...

Also,
Im not vegetarian for moral/religious/medical reasons, meat is just plain gross

It's always great to see that there are still folks who will go on foamy rants at the drop of a hat when vegetarianism/veganism is even mentioned.

If the personal dietary habits of our vegetarian and vegan friends aren't enough to make them feel superior, the behavior of the aforementioned folks certainly must be.

If the personal dietary habits of our vegetarian and vegan friends aren't enough to make them feel superior, the behavior of the aforementioned folks certainly must be.I wish I could say you're wrong, but.. I'm human. Throw enough stupidity in my face & negative stereotypes are bound to follow.

It's always great to see that there are still folks who will go on foamy rants at the drop of a hat when vegetarianism/veganism is even mentioned.

If the personal dietary habits of our vegetarian and vegan friends aren't enough to make them feel superior, the behavior of the aforementioned folks certainly must be.
Its not my dietary habits that make me superior, it's my general greatness

If you don't liek something, don't eat it. Being a vegetarian or vegan by choice inherently takes a belief you are superior to people who don't believe eating meat is immoral, despite no logical basis for it. Unless of course you have a logical basis based on religion, but that is like health reasons.

If you don't liek something, don't eat it. Being a vegetarian or vegan by choice inherently takes a belief you are superior to people who don't believe eating meat is immoral, despite no logical basis for it. Unless of course you have a logical basis based on religion, but that is like health reasons.
I don't like meat.

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang:
First off diabetics never stop eating sugar or even try stopping others from eating it. Just have to monitor the amount of carbohydrates (sugar and starch) taken in and other stuff. I've been diabetic for 23 years and without sugar I'd be dead.

PRO-SUGAR EATING!!!!!:)
Uh-huh. Refined sugar then. Of course you need sugars, mostly in the form of starches...but refined sugar is a no-no unless you are a VERY mild diabetic.

But someone who claims to not eat animals (vegetarian) and then does negates their vegetarianism. FISH ARE ANIMALS
Others would not agree with you. Are insects animals?

That is ridiculous. You seem to be proposing that all groups that have ever existed should be researched by everyone in order for them to form an opinion on them. People should research the groups they want to research. Their opinions will be inevitably be formed by research (if they have done any), experience (not always as valuable as those who possess it claim), and their perception of it (sourced from the opinions and actions of others, belonging to the said group, and not). In an ideal world everyone would research everything they formed an opinion on. But this is not an ideal world. Instead, groups have to market themselves. To contest this state of affairs is semantics, because it cannot change (without an all-pervasive big brother state).

Good to hear you aren't a vego or a vego (spelt the same, pronounced differently). I don't like the ones that I meet. I find them nieve, idealistic, and most often pretentious.
No, what I'm saying is that if you have a biased, ignorant opinion of a group of people, and enjoy spouting off about them based on this biased, ignorant opinion...it isn't MY job to educate you. It's yours.

Uh-huh. Refined sugar then. Of course you need sugars, mostly in the form of starches...but refined sugar is a no-no unless you are a VERY mild diabetic.
It's the opposite. Starch sugars are the type diabetics avoid, because they take too long to break down. Most diabetic carry around a pack of jelly beans to up their sugar when it gets low.

Others would not agree with you. Are insects animals?
can you explain to me (not to hijack too much) exactly how a fish would not be considered an animal?

and yes insects are animals.

http://www.kidport.com/RefLib/Science/Animals/Animals.htm

That is exactly what I am talking about. It is bullshit to do it for moral reasons. To do it for moral reasons mean you automatically place yourself above other people who don't do it for moral reasons, whether you express that opinion openly or not or whether you even realise it. You might think the big mouths who talk about being vegetarians for moral reasons are giving you a bad name, but they arn't. They are expressing the same opinion you would express if you were a big, loud jackass too.
Right...so if you refrain from killing people for moral reasons, you automatically place yourself above other people who don't kill people just because they are lazy or weak...:rolleyes:

If someone isn't preaching to you, what does it matter to YOU why they choose to eat meat or not? If it is for moral reasons, that is JUST as valid a reason as doing it for health reasons.

Others would not agree with you. Are insects animals?

under Latin classification insects come under:

Kingdom: Animalia (all animals)

So technically yes.:)

AS DO FISH:)

I couldn't care less, but it's still stupid.
The fact that you likely do not eat canines is stupid. Why one animal and not another?

No matter what you say, your reason is stupid because I think it is.

Like that reasoning? No? Then stop using it.

To get back on thread - I've only found that it's the hardcore vegan that does the preaching bit, not your average veggie, unless provoked.

It's the opposite. Starch sugars are the type diabetics avoid, because they take too long to break down. Most diabetic carry around a pack of jelly beans to up their sugar when it gets low.
Um, no. Some may. When managing your diabetes through diet, some people with Type II diabetes need starches and NOT sugars for the very reason you've mentioned. They break down slower and the level of sugar in the system stays constant rather than balooning up and down. If you let your sugar get low, it's because you haven't been eating the right things, or frequently enough...and going from 4 to 12 in half an hour is NOT a healthy thing to do.

So you feel that they, because of their diet, are expressing a superiority to you.

You DO realise, I hope, that the reasons for vegatarianism/veganism are much more varied than "I don't want to eat dead animals"...

Plenty of people from India (not all!) grew up as vegetarians. There might have been an initial religious reason for them, but many just prefer it, even after trying meat (some do when they move to the US).

I don't care if someone is a vegetarian and orders a vegetarian meal, or doesn't eat meat or drink milk.

What pisses me off is when PETA vegans come into a restaurant and freak out.

No, I don't make the mistake of thinking that they are "all vegetarians". But fuck them for what they do.

can you explain to me (not to hijack too much) exactly how a fish would not be considered an animal? Nope...but some vegetarians will eat fish, but not any other kind of animal. I have no problem with that distinction, since many vegetarians also eat animal products anyway, so aren't totally off animals. Which is why we have the term vegan to tell the difference.

and yes insects are animals.

http://www.kidport.com/RefLib/Science/Animals/Animals.htm*shrugs* Sorry, I wouldn't consider insects to be animals...but then again, I wouldn't go stuffing them in my mouth. Much.

can you explain to me (not to hijack too much) exactly how a fish would not be considered an animal?

and yes insects are animals.



They are, but sometimes going with no meat can drive people crazy. I try to refrain from meat of any sorts but if I'm sick and have been so for a long time I usually eat some sort of meat until I'm better. (That doesn't happen too often I've eaten fish twice this year; once in november when I was sick and on my birthday, because something should die on my birthday.)

Um, no. Some may. When managing your diabetes through diet, some people with Type II diabetes need starches and NOT sugars for the very reason you've mentioned. They break down slower and the level of sugar in the system stays constant rather than balooning up and down. If you let your sugar get low, it's because you haven't been eating the right things, or frequently enough...and going from 4 to 12 in half an hour is NOT a healthy thing to do.

DONE IT LOADS.:(

To get back on thread - I've only found that it's the hardcore vegan that does the preaching bit, not your average veggie, unless provoked.
Well, the vegetarians aren't the hardcore ones anymore. Vegetarianism is pretty plain Jane now. I met a frutarian couple once...seriously...all they ate were fruits and nuts.

No, what I'm saying is that if you have a biased, ignorant opinion of a group of people, and enjoy spouting off about them based on this biased, ignorant opinion...it isn't MY job to educate you. It's yours.
Close. Everyone has a biased opinion. The term 'biased opinion' is actually a redundancy. There is no such thing as an unbiased opinion. Ignorance is a subjective thing. No one is completely free of ignorance on any topic. Word-play aside. It is indeed not your kob to educate the plebes. However, it is also not theirs. If they aren't interested enough to launch a multi-institutional research and thesis on your respective group, then you will just have to be happy with the image you usually portray. This is why many of these groups have representative organisations, which espouse and distance themselves from various positions. If everyone educated themselves, these groups would need not exist. So in the end, if vegos and vegos don't like the stereotype they are having attributed to their dietary group, they should form an organisation, and combat that stereotype. Bitching about how wrong the masses are brings nothing but self-gratification.

Well, the vegetarians aren't the hardcore ones anymore. Vegetarianism is pretty plain Jane now. I met a frutarian couple once...seriously...all they ate were fruits and nuts.

If you've seen enough people from India, you wouldn't think vegetarianism (or even being pure vegan) was a big deal.

I think that the people who make a big deal out of it are Western nutcases who have no idea that the idea is as old as mankind, and that they should shut up.

Well, the vegetarians aren't the hardcore ones anymore. Vegetarianism is pretty plain Jane now. I met a frutarian couple once...seriously...all they ate were fruits and nuts.

Just eating fruit gives you the squits.

DONE IT LOADS.:(
Good for you. Find me a single doctor that says it's good for you to jump that far so fast.

Close. Everyone has a biased opinion. The term 'biased opinion' is actually a redundancy. There is no such thing as an unbiased opinion. Ignorance is a subjective thing. No one is completely free of ignorance on any topic. Word-play aside. It is indeed not your kob to educate the plebes. However, it is also not theirs. If they aren't interested enough to launch a multi-institutional research and thesis on your respective group, then you will just have to be happy with the image you usually portray. This is why many of these groups have representative organisations, which espouse and distance themselves from various positions. If everyone educated themselves, these groups would need not exist. So in the end, if vegos and vegos don't like the stereotype they are having attributed to their dietary group, they should form an organisation, and combat that stereotype. Bitching about how wrong the masses are brings nothing but self-gratification.
Bitching how its up to everyone else to give you the correct information is intellectual sloth.

Just eating fruit gives you the squits.
I'm not certain, but I think beans are considered fruit...musical fruit actually;) But your body gets used to it.

Uh-huh. Refined sugar then. Of course you need sugars, mostly in the form of starches...but refined sugar is a no-no unless you are a VERY mild diabetic.

Type 1 - as diabetic as it gets. Pancreas = dead. I eat anything I like. Just moderate the amounts is all.

I'm not certain, but I think beans are considered fruit...musical fruit actually;) But your body gets used to it.

You can always take Beano. That works.

Type 1 - as diabetic as it gets. Pancreas = dead. I eat anything I like. Just moderate the amounts is all.
What kind of moderation are we talking about? Do you control your diabetes with diet (and pills) or insulin shots? And let's be honest here...if you're chomping down on chocolate bars or getting massively drunk, you are NOT in control of your disease.

You can always take Beano. That works.
Meh...you get used to it on your own eventually.

Good for you. Find me a single doctor that says it's good for you to jump that far so fast.

no they won't, and it's not, but things don't always work out as they should. When I get low I tend to eat EVERYTHING like some kind of starving ravenous uncontrollable food monster!:)

Nope...but some vegetarians will eat fish, but not any other kind of animal. I have no problem with that distinction, since many vegetarians also eat animal products anyway, so aren't totally off animals. Which is why we have the term vegan to tell the difference.
whether or not people who call themselves vegetarians eat something or not it does not change the fact that it's an animal.

There are different "levels" of veggie type folks

peco pollo - eats all animal products, plus chicken and fish
veggie- no meat at all (not even chicken and fish) and no animal products (like beef broth in the soup ect.)
vegan- no meat, no animal products, no animal byproducts (like milk and eggs)



*shrugs* Sorry, I wouldn't consider insects to be animals...but then again, I wouldn't go stuffing them in my mouth. Much.
it's pretty simple, you have animal, vegetable (plant) or mineral, they are neither plants or minerals so they must be animals

also, according to the science book we use in homeschool they are animals because they have the similar systems to other animals (move with legs, breathe, eat, reproduce, ect.) and not to plants or minerals.

Close. Everyone has a biased opinion. The term 'biased opinion' is actually a redundancy. There is no such thing as an unbiased opinion. Ignorance is a subjective thing. No one is completely free of ignorance on any topic. Word-play aside. It is indeed not your kob to educate the plebes. However, it is also not theirs. If they aren't interested enough to launch a multi-institutional research and thesis on your respective group, then you will just have to be happy with the image you usually portray. This is why many of these groups have representative organisations, which espouse and distance themselves from various positions. If everyone educated themselves, these groups would need not exist. So in the end, if vegos and vegos don't like the stereotype they are having attributed to their dietary group, they should form an organisation, and combat that stereotype. Bitching about how wrong the masses are brings nothing but self-gratification.
The stereotype is inherent in the position. It is unchangeable outside religious belief or medical reasons, and only the former on technicality.

Meh...you get used to it on your own eventually.
The question is, do the people around you get used to it.

Then again, there's nothing quite as nasty as a good, beefy fart.

The stereotype is inherent in the position. It is unchangeable outside religious belief or medical reasons.

I don't put the typical vegetarian from India in the same box as the typical asshat PETA vegan.

It's also one thing to eat vegetables and spices that taste good - it's quite another to witness PETA vegans trying to mold a "turkey" out of a mass of sticky gluten (all the while trumpeting how great it is that they are eating something that looks like an alien crapped on the table).

What kind of moderation are we talking about? Do you control your diabetes with diet (and pills) or insulin shots? And let's be honest here...if you're chomping down on chocolate bars or getting massively drunk, you are NOT in control of your disease.

4 injections a day, don't drink at all, don't smoke. chomping down on no, but it doesn't mean you can NEVER have them. I hate it when diabetics whinge about how they can't eat anything. Moderation = sticking to set amounts of carbohydrates at set times for me, injections at set times and testing sugar levels to check where I am. I do Kung-fu so have to get a little high before I start a 3hr session. It's not good, but I won't die through it. :)

no they won't, and it's not, but things don't always work out as they should. When I get low I tend to eat EVERYTHING like some kind of starving ravenous uncontrollable food monster!:)
I understand that...I suffer from hypoglycemia so yeah...when you start crashing, it's all about cramming that sugar into you as fast as you can. I just wanted to ensure that you weren't offering your experience as an healthy event in the life of a diabetic.

I'm not certain, but I think beans are considered fruit...musical fruit actually;) But your body gets used to it.

Eating beans your whole life can't be good for you.

Generally the vegetarians and vegans you hear about are the ones doing some preaching about it. Millions of others just do it, and leave it at that. So why are you letting this small group of people poison your perception of vegetarians/vegans (if indeed you have a negative perception)?
I think it has to do with people converting to veganism/vegetarianism. There's nothing so irritating as a convert to anything - just try being around a newly-minted non-smoker, they'll drive you up the wall with their heavy-handed, newfound anti-smoking tack. Same for your 'born-again' fundies. They're so into the Lord they'll make you wanna smack 'em. Diet fans, always vetting your choices for a snack.

While millions may 'just do it', many millions more are still digging that 'new-car smell' of their personal choices, and can't seem to help making a bigger deal of themselves, and their choices, than your run-of-the-mill veggie-heads.

I have a negative view of anybody who tries telling me all the reasons why they, their beliefs, or their lifestyle choices, are superior - not different, but superior - to me, to my beliefs, or to my lifestyle choices.

I understand that...I suffer from hypoglycemia so yeah...when you start crashing, it's all about cramming that sugar into you as fast as you can. I just wanted to ensure that you weren't offering your experience as an healthy event in the life of a diabetic.

No way. :)

I understand that...I suffer from hypoglycemia so yeah...when you start crashing, it's all about cramming that sugar into you as fast as you can. I just wanted to ensure that you weren't offering your experience as an healthy event in the life of a diabetic.

Even people who are not diabetic should refrain from eating refined sugar.

I've noticed that when I eat refined sugar, I'm more likely to crash later - and I'm not even diabetic or pre-diabetic.

It's because my body gives a huge insulin response to the influx of refined sugar.

I stopped eating refined sugar. Still eat starches, but in moderation. And I feel much better, and never crash.

I live with a diabetic.

Oh, and Splenda is the best thing to ever come out of Canada.

I don't put the typical vegetarian from India in the same box as the typical asshat PETA vegan.
I'm not.

The question is, do the people around you get used to it.

Then again, there's nothing quite as nasty as a good, beefy fart.
Hahahahahaaa...I didn't grow up eating beans, but my husband did and they don't affect him at all. It took me oh...say a year and a half to get to the point where beans didn't make me all bloated. I never had major issues with farting because of beans...but they did hurt my tummy...my mother-in-law used to make me drink sugar water to help burp up the 'gas'.

Eating beans your whole life can't be good for you.

You could always recover the methane with a tube, and use the methane to power your house.

Eating beans your whole life can't be good for you.
Why not? Beans and rice are the perfect combination of carbohydrates and proteins. Many people DO in fact live their entire lives on this diet, and can maintain health. Usually it is poverty leading them to eat thusly...but it's hardly unhealthy. Remember...the people I mentioned also ate fruit and nuts.

...but they did hurt my tummy...my mother-in-law used to make me drink sugar water to help burp up the 'gas'.
uh... does that work? I have child who has problems with my chili of the uh...gas nature, if I can fix her with that, it would be great....

You could always recover the methane with a tube, and use the methane to power your house.

It'd be an explosion waiting to happen! :D

Um, no. Some may. When managing your diabetes through diet, some people with Type II diabetes need starches and NOT sugars for the very reason you've mentioned. They break down slower and the level of sugar in the system stays constant rather than balooning up and down. If you let your sugar get low, it's because you haven't been eating the right things, or frequently enough...and going from 4 to 12 in half an hour is NOT a healthy thing to do.
Nevertheless, diabetes sufferers from both groups will carry emergency jellybeans (or some other for of highly concentrated glucose) in case their sugar gets dangerously low, in which case an instant boost is what they need. Admittedly a constant level is preferable, but this does not always play out as planned. Most of the diabetes sufferers I have met avoid starch products because it becomes hard to monitor their sugar levels by memory, and they find themselves having to test themselves more than they would like. However, my Nonno simply cannot resist the temptations of the starch loaded italian diet, so he has got it pretty well mastered.

I've noticed that if you prepare dry beans yourself, and soak them overnight instead of trying to hurry them along, and you rinse them several times after the soaking, a lot of the gas inducing properties vanish.

4 injections a day, don't drink at all, don't smoke. chomping down on no, but it doesn't mean you can NEVER have them. I hate it when diabetics whinge about how they can't eat anything. Moderation = sticking to set amounts of carbohydrates at set times for me, injections at set times and testing sugar levels to check where I am. I do Kung-fu so have to get a little high before I start a 3hr session. It's not good, but I won't die through it. :)
It's not an easy diet. Of course you can have sugars...but when your calories are restricted, you want to make the most out of what you can eat. But if you've been a diabetic for that many years, you have a good idea of how to maintain your levels...

Why not? Beans and rice are the perfect combination of carbohydrates and proteins. Many people DO in fact live their entire lives on this diet, and can maintain health. Usually it is poverty leading them to eat thusly...but it's hardly unhealthy. Remember...the people I mentioned also ate fruit and nuts.

ok but not just beans. Variety is key to a healthy diet. just eating 1 thing is gonna cause problems down the line.

Fun with farts:

http://oranchak.com/?p=218

It's TOS safe, don't worry...

Oh, and Splenda is the best thing to ever come out of Canada.


Well its only competition is Avril Lavigne and Celine Dione so that's really not saying much.

I think it has to do with people converting to veganism/vegetarianism. There's nothing so irritating as a convert to anything - just try being around a newly-minted non-smoker, they'll drive you up the wall with their heavy-handed, newfound anti-smoking tack. Same for your 'born-again' fundies. They're so into the Lord they'll make you wanna smack 'em. Diet fans, always vetting your choices for a snack.
Oh Lordy on this we do agree...people switching diets are bound to be a bit excited about it though, and talk about it...that wears off...just pat them on the head. Most people are converts to vegetarianism here in the West...there aren't that many vegetarian/vegan families yet that raise their children the same. Lots of teens go veggie...have you noticed? I think it was kind of rebellious for a while...me, I'd like to for health reasons, but instead I limit my meat intake and stick mostly to wild meat.

It's not an easy diet. Of course you can have sugars...but when your calories are restricted, you want to make the most out of what you can eat. But if you've been a diabetic for that many years, you have a good idea of how to maintain your levels...

I've never looked at calories ever.

Well its only competition is Avril Lavigne and Celine Dione so that's really not saying much.
Avril is shit, not the shit, just shit. I've heard her unplugged, I could become a fucking popstar if she can and I can't carry a tune in a bucket.

Ryan Stiles is Canadian or is it Mochry or both? Either way, them > Lavigne.

Well its only competition is Avril Lavigne and Celine Dione so that's really not saying much.

I blame Canada for William Shatner. I guess I should really blame Quebec though.

It also pisses me off when people make their animals vegetarian! Cats need taurine which is present in fish, veggie cat = dead.:mad:

Avril is shit, not the shit, just shit.

*whiney voice* but I was agreeing with you.... or you were agreeing with me. I need to get away from the computer

I blame Canada for William Shatner. I guess I should really blame Quebec though.
Blame Quebec is a given though isn't it?

Even people who are not diabetic should refrain from eating refined sugar. Before I knew I was hypoglycemic I was still trying to eliminate sugar from my diet...mostly because aboriginal people seem more suceptible to diabetes and I wanted to head that off at the pass (hahahaha). But it's damn hard to avoid! It's in everything, even some canned soups! In baby food! As humans, most of us have only been ingesting refined sugar for 500 years or so...I honestly don't think our bodies are able to handle it. Well, it forces you to eat more natural food...and I just wanted to mention that many vegetarians and vegans also eat organic food...they don't all rely completely on soy.


oh, and Splenda is the best thing to ever come out of Canada.
Yeah, it's darn expensive though...not the same bad aftertaste as equal and its ilk though! There is this syrup made from the agave plant (same as they make tequila out of) that has a zero glycemic index...they sell it in health food stores...it's also excellent.

It also pisses me off when people make their animals vegetarian! Cats need taurine which is present in fish, veggie cat = dead.:mad:
does it bother you that my dog is gluten free? I have to buy him special food, but yeah, if I touch his dog food I can get sick, so he is on corn based dog food.

uh... does that work? I have child who has problems with my chili of the uh...gas nature, if I can fix her with that, it would be great....
It worked for me...it works with a lot of kinds of food-related bloating. Just a bit, mind you, in slightly tepid water.

Blame Quebec is a given though isn't it?

I think there's something in the water there.

I rather like this song:
http://www.amiright.com/parody/2000s/greenday96.shtml

Nevertheless, diabetes sufferers from both groups will carry emergency jellybeans (or some other for of highly concentrated glucose) in case their sugar gets dangerously low, in which case an instant boost is what they need. Admittedly a constant level is preferable, but this does not always play out as planned. Most of the diabetes sufferers I have met avoid starch products because it becomes hard to monitor their sugar levels by memory, and they find themselves having to test themselves more than they would like. However, my Nonno simply cannot resist the temptations of the starch loaded italian diet, so he has got it pretty well mastered.
Gotcha. But don't forget that there are better sources of starch than pasta...the more complex the carbohydrate, the better your chances of maintaining a steady level. Lentils and beans...wild rice...I haven't found a pasta yet, whole grain or no, that doesn't boost glucose levels far beyond where you want them. So when I'm talking starches...I'm not just talking the easily broken down ones...like in white bread in particular (shudders).

does it bother you that my dog is gluten free? I have to buy him special food, but yeah, if I touch his dog food I can get sick, so he is on corn based dog food.

It's different if it makes you ill to touch it. Dogs can get away with it, cats can't. I hate people who make their animals vegetarian cos meat is murder etc. etc. Basically I hate anyone who forces their morals on anyone else especially when they're messing with the natural food chain.

I've noticed that if you prepare dry beans yourself, and soak them overnight instead of trying to hurry them along, and you rinse them several times after the soaking, a lot of the gas inducing properties vanish.
Interesting...we always use dry beans but I tend to boil them in the water they've soaked in. Dry beans don't bother me much...it's the fresh ones...especially lima beans (prepared with corn). I love that dish...but oh it puts me in agony!

ok but not just beans. Variety is key to a healthy diet. just eating 1 thing is gonna cause problems down the line.
For sure. Luckily for those who susbsist mostly on rice and beans, they also tend to live in locales with year-round available fresh fruit to supplement their diet with.

Well its only competition is Avril Lavigne and Celine Dione so that's really not saying much.
You forgot Jim Carrey and me.

I've never looked at calories ever.
Lucky you...many of the diabetics I know have issues with cholesterol, or for other reasons need to restrict their caloric intake.

But wait...surely you can't exceed a certain intake if you want your sugars to remain level? I mean...eating a huge meal is going to wreak havoc on you, even if it's all good stuff...

Do you just go by portions? It's still an issue of limiting calories...not necessarily measuring them.

To return to an earlier question:

Why do people look down on vegetarians ? In many cases people that make sacrifices to do something which is "extra-moral" are (at least grudgingly) admired. Volunteer nurses in warzones, scoutleaders etc. etc.

Why not the vegetarians ?

Lucky you...many of the diabetics I know have issues with cholesterol, or for other reasons need to restrict their caloric intake.

But wait...surely you can't exceed a certain intake if you want your sugars to remain level? I mean...eating a huge meal is going to wreak havoc on you, even if it's all good stuff...

Do you just go by portions? It's still an issue of limiting calories...not necessarily measuring them.

portions. I like eating avacado's - they're 350 calorioes a go and I'll eat 2 no problem with no effect on sugar level.

To return to an earlier question:

Why do people look down on vegetarians ? In many cases people that do something which is "extra-moral" are (at least grudgingly) admired. Volunteer nurses in warzones, scoutleaders etc. etc.

Why not the vegetarians ?
Yeah, there is a lot of anger out there, over a fairly simple thing...diet...

portions. I like eating avacado's - they're 350 calorioes a go and I'll eat 2 no problem with no effect on sugar level.
My poor mother-in-law...she LOVES avocado...filled with such good nutrients and healthy fats...but she can't eat them because of her cholesterol. She's on a double restricted diet...diabetic and low-cholesterol. She's tearing out her hair.

My poor mother-in-law...she LOVES avocado...filled with such good nutrients and healthy fats...but she can't eat them because of her cholesterol. She's on a double restricted diet...diabetic and low-cholesterol. She's tearing out her hair.

mmmmmmm...avacado's. Poor woman. I'll eat plenty to make up for it ;)

To return to an earlier question:

Why do people look down on vegetarians ? In many cases people that make sacrifices to do something which is "extra-moral" are (at least grudgingly) admired. Volunteer nurses in warzones, scoutleaders etc. etc.

Why not the vegetarians ?
Self-righteousness is usually not an admired trait.

Self-righteousness is usually not an admired trait.

True :)

Self-righteousness is usually not an admired trait.

True - but the actions one is selfrighteous about generally are.

... read quite a while through this thread , but did'nt really see the point ¿¿¿
what i'm shure about is the fact, that i find it quite funny seeing u disucuss your deseases in this thread ... why is that ? deseases and meat ??? is there any connection between ? ....
anyway : nobody talked about killing an animal to eat it - i mean personally :::: did u kill an animal to eat it ???? how did u feel doing it ???
i did it once - it was a goose - i did not like killing it , though i wanted to eat it ! - funny paradoxon - isn't it ?? i killed it by chopping of it's head - the goose didn't like it as well - it behaved in a very opposing way.
well - i stopped eating meat because i can not kill ... point.
I do not want others to kill for me either ... very simple.
with plants i have less problems ...
here and now boys and girls !!!!!

Self-righteousness is usually not an admired trait.I see.. So one particular choice of diet makes people self rightious, does it?

What about you then, mister meat eater. Don't your dietary choice & your rants about the "stupid" choices of others make you self-rightious?

If I didn't know better, I'd think you just needed someone to daemonise, to feel better about yourself. Come to think of it, I don't know any better.

I have killed quite a bit of the meat I have then go onto eat.

I treat my sources of food with respect. I value that above all, regardless of what diet you are on.

No, the disease talk was a topic drift. I'm not linking it to the consumption of meat.

I see.. So one particular choice of diet makes people self rightious, does it?


That is certainly the assumption...likely the justification for much of the anger towards vegetarians/vegans.

That is certainly the assumption...likely the justification for much of the anger towards vegetarians/vegans.

I've sometimes wondered about that. Another theory that has occured to me is that some meat-eaters don't like to admit that it's possible to be a vegetarian. Maybe it makes some of them feel a little guilty deep down; I really don't know. Maybe they just don't like people to have a different lifestyle, one they don't want to try and understand. So the existence of vegetarians disturbs them. It makes them uncomfortable, which in turn makes them angry. (All on an instinctive level; there doesn't seem to be any reasoning involved.)

*shrugs* Just an idea. It's difficult for me to understand the workings of a mind that's so limited it can lash out in hate at a group of people who aren't trying to bother it in any way.

Of course not all meat-eaters are like that, far from it. Many are tolerant, rational, intelligent people.

I find that there is more hate towards vegetarians/vegans in the older generations for some reason. They see the choice to not eat meat as something 'unnatural'. My father, for example, insists that one can not live without meat...a ridiculous statement, but one he refuses to back down on. Damn Irishman. He is really bad for ridiculing vegetarians/vegans...associates all sorts of negative traits with them such as 'sissiness' and 'being a dirty hippy'. I mean...get over it! Frankly, the man eats too much meat. And then complains about his health.

I know that in my travels in Latin America, it's seen as frankly insulting or kooky not to eat meat...I mean...it's expensive and sometimes hard to come by so you better bloody enjoy it when it's served! Not eating meat is just...what poor people do out of necessity...not a CHOICE....though it is picking up in the urban centres.

That is certainly the assumption...likely the justification for much of the anger towards vegetarians/vegans.

it mostly sucks when coming from friends/coworkers/family

the random ignoramous on teh interweb beign an ass about your diet is still annoying but not as much as a close associate asking you how you can possibly live without meat when just a month or so before you had explained they whys of your diet to them. and then the inevitable "I'm goign to go get me a burger right now" as if I care. They ask me about my diet, then talk shit about it, then act as if i was trying to convert them when i never gave a flying fuck what they ate.

I'm vegetarian mainly for my health as the less I ate meat, the sicker I got when i did eat it, but I also don't appreciate the way animals are treated on corporate meat farms. I may wish more omnivores would eat free-range stuff and try to be a bit more animal/ecologically friendly but I don't look down on those who don't do so. It's more expensive and harder to get and a lot of people dont even know what the hell free-range is. I also appreciate hunters, I don't put them down or think they are doing anything wrong. I dont see what is so self-righteous about wanting animals to have a better quality of life and as little suffering as possible.

I don't question/lecture meat-eaters, but often have to defend myself from personal attacks and general idiocy.

I don't question/lecture meat-eaters, but often have to defend myself from personal attacks and general idiocy.
And as you've mentioned...I wonder how many people walk away from you with the feeling that you 'lectured them' when it was them prodding you for answers...

I find that there is more hate towards vegetarians/vegans in the older generations for some reason. They see the choice to not eat meat as something 'unnatural'. My father, for example, insists that one can not live without meat...a ridiculous statement, but one he refuses to back down on. Damn Irishman. He is really bad for ridiculing vegetarians/vegans...associates all sorts of negative traits with them such as 'sissiness' and 'being a dirty hippy'. I mean...get over it! Frankly, the man eats too much meat. And then complains about his health.

I know that in my travels in Latin America, it's seen as frankly insulting or kooky not to eat meat...I mean...it's expensive and sometimes hard to come by so you better bloody enjoy it when it's served! Not eating meat is just...what poor people do out of necessity...not a CHOICE....though it is picking up in the urban centres.


oh god - i often get "you're vegetarian :eek: *shock* :eek: I am surprised because you look so healthy, your skin isnt even yellow".

I've never known a damn yellow-skinned vegetarian in my life!

when he says how all vegetarians are sissies next time, tell him about how the gladiators were vegetarians

when he says how all vegetarians are sissies next time, tell him about how the gladiators were vegetarians
What? Really?

Besides...vegetarians and vegans taste better;)

And as you've mentioned...I wonder how many people walk away from you with the feeling that you 'lectured them' when it was them prodding you for answers...

from most peoples reactions after a hearty prodding of me... I'd guestimate around 90%

He is really bad for ridiculing vegetarians/vegans...associates all sorts of negative traits with them such as 'sissiness' and 'being a dirty hippy'.

Wait... there is something wrong with being a dirty hippy?:eek:

What? Really?

yep - http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/ancient/AncientRepublish_1081439.htm

because their trying to force me to conform to certain lifestyle against my will and generally won't listen to reason.
No we're not. I get told to eat meat much more often than I say why I don't eat it. I've had friends and family members alike shove hunks of meat in my face.

The most I'll generally do is point out that we taste better.

Besides...vegetarians and vegans taste better;)

did you edit this? i thought I read something else at first ;)

you know, this isn't a myth at all - I have direct experience with this and can tell you that from my experience, omnivore women are a bit more sour while vegetarians are sweeter

i need to test this out on men next :p

did you edit this? i thought I read something else at first ;) You know I did...I didn't want to get modsmacked...

Besides...vegetarians and vegans taste better;)

We do? ;)

I wouldn't know; I've only ever been out with meat-eaters. Vegetarians are rare creatures here in France.


I've had friends and family members alike shove hunks of meat in my face.


Seriously? Have you told them how disgusting and disrespectful that is?

Then again, I've had friends pretend to do that to me.

You know I did...I didn't want to get modsmacked...


lol - well I liked the first way you put it

Ugh, I dated a vegan. It was hell! He was losing a lot of hair (at the age of 22) and did pot every single day. Most of his friends were dirty. I intend to create a stereotype based entirely on vegans and people named Damian just from that experience.

...now, don't get me wrong, he's a good friend and a good man. I would completely recommend him! I think he's stopped doing so much pot.

Seriously? Have you told them how disgusting and disrespectful that is?

Then again, I've had friends pretend to do that to me.
My friends aren't so bad, they'll do it jokingly. My mom is the worst, I've caught her trying to slip chicken broth into my food on a number of occasions.

lol - well I liked the first way you put it
Yeah, but it got me hot:)

Generally the vegetarians and vegans you hear about are the ones doing some preaching about it. Millions of others just do it, and leave it at that. So why are you letting this small group of people poison your perception of vegetarians/vegans (if indeed you have a negative perception)?

The same could be said about anything, for example:
"Generally the Christians you hear about are the ones doing some preaching about it. Millions of others just do it, and leave it at that. So why are you letting this small group of people poison your perception of Christians (if indeed you have a negative perception)?"


The vegitarians who make the biggest impression on us are those who preach about it...so those are the first people that come to mind when I think of vegans. Same reason anybody thinks of the fundies when they think of christians or Muslims, or stalinists when somebody says communist...or Nazis when somebody says they are Fascist.

For the record the only thing I don't like Vegitarians/Vegans because I don't how to cook for them. Most things I can cook involve meat and the ones that don't can't make a meal themselves.

Yeah, but it got me hot:)


me too

I love it when you talk dirty:fluffle:

My friends aren't so bad, they'll do it jokingly. My mom is the worst, I've caught her trying to slip chicken broth into my food on a number of occasions.

Aggh... Well, you're not "normal", are you? I suppose your vegetarianism needs to be "cured"...


Yeah, but it got me hot :)

Damn; now I wish I'd seen it. :D

Same reason anybody thinks of the fundies when they think of christians or Muslims...or Nazis when somebody says they are Fascist.
Funny...I make a point of not assuming fundamentalism when someone mentions they are religious. Just as I do not assume that someone who is black is a Black Panther, or someone who is white is a White Nation supporter. Stupid blanket assumptions based on radicals is...

stupid.

Funny...I make a point of not assuming fundamentalism when someone mentions they are religious. Just as I do not assume that someone who is black is a Black Panther, or someone who is white is a White Nation supporter. Stupid blanket assumptions based on radicals is...

stupid.
Then great for you, but unfortunately there are quite a few p[eople out there who assume the worst about people.

Then great for you, but unfortunately there are quite a few p[eople out there who assume the worst about people.

and that's what this thread is disagreeing with. He just cited a specific example.

Then great for you, but unfortunately there are quite a few p[eople out there who assume the worst about people.
We shouldn't aspire to the lowest common denominator. I'm assuming that the people who post on NS are a little more intelligent...well, hoping actually.

I'm assuming that the people who post on NS are a little more intelligent...well, hoping actually.

The people who post on NS are a very varied lot. I've seen intelligent, rational, interesting discussions. I've also seen stupidity almost beyond belief, and people who are simply unable to use reason even in a basic sense.

The people who post on NS are a very varied lot. I've seen intelligent, rational, interesting discussions. I've also seen stupidity almost beyond belief, and people who are simply unable to use reason even in a basic sense.
Luckily the latter don't hang around for long...usually:)

did you edit this? i thought I read something else at first ;)

you know, this isn't a myth at all - I have direct experience with this and can tell you that from my experience, omnivore women are a bit more sour while vegetarians are sweeter

i need to test this out on men next :pSame's true for men. Unless they drink lots & lots of coffee & smoke like chimneys.

Same's true for men. Unless they drink lots & lots of coffee & smoke like chimneys.


thats what my wife and friend say too but I would like to get direct evidence :D

I don't run screaming from salads or anything, but I'd rather date a member of a cult than a vegan. Vegetarians at least have some room for comprimise and can be reformed to the land of the BBQ. I'm guessing the cultist would be more fun going out to restaurants with than a vegan. I eat everything vegans get fidgity about so it always creates unnecessary angst in a relationship.

We do? ;)

Probably. Most meat we eat are planteaters: cows, horses, chickens and so on. Meateaters do not taste as nice.

Yeah, those damn doctors and nurses, trying to tell people about good eating practices...

Again...most vegetarians and vegans don't talk about their eating habits or moralise about it. You focus entirely on those that do. Why?

Because, of course, the loud minority makes damned sure we hear them and present themselves as the spokespeople for a silent majority who don't organize and say, "Hey, we're not like those idiots."

Eating beans your whole life can't be good for you.
Why not? Lots of protein.

thats what my wife and friend say too but I would like to get direct evidence :DI know a vegan or two who prolly wouldn't be opposed to proving it to you ;)

Generally the vegetarians and vegans you hear about are the ones doing some preaching about it. Millions of others just do it, and leave it at that. So why are you letting this small group of people poison your perception of vegetarians/vegans (if indeed you have a negative perception)?


Wise man says: gimme head, not grief.

Unless the grief of bad vegans is offset by head from good vegans,
the group known as vegans = blacklisted.

Because, of course, the loud minority makes damned sure we hear them and present themselves as the spokespeople for a silent majority who don't organize and say, "Hey, we're not like those idiots."
So, the moderate majority of all groups, should set aside their placid moderism in order to counter radicalism? Wouldn't that kind of defeat the purpose of 'live and let live'? What kind of 'counter protest' do you think you'd like to see...signs saying, "We are fine with your dietary choices, but we like to avoid meat, thanks for your time"?

People don't protest unless they have an agenda...people who are vegetarian and leave it at that don't have an agenda....you think they should create one, just so the lazy and ignorant don't have to dig a little to find counters to the radicals?

Perhaps we should publish a series of books, "Moderism for the complete idiot"...we can have a title for pretty much everything, with the first page being a rough breakdown of radicals versus moderates.

And since many people seem upset just by people talking about their vegetarianism/veganism, equating that discussion with some form of coercion or preaching...the moderates would actually be doing themselves harm by coming up with some sort of public service campaign to offset the negative image portrayed by radicals...because that campaign alone would be seen as 'intrusive and preachy' by some. So...? Maybe people, thinking creatures that we are, can get off our fat asses, and put even the slightest bit of effort into finding a bit more about a group we have heard vilified? We could choose NOT to join in the vilification without one-sided information...that would really be something, wouldn't it! Sorry...am I expecting too much of my fellow humans? *shrugs* Me and my high standards. Let the cretins wallow in their ignorant distaste for anything out of the 'normal' (according to them)...the rest of you probably already know better.

And since many people seem upset just by people talking about their vegetarianism/veganism, equating that discussion with some form of coercion or preaching...the moderates would actually be doing themselves harm by coming up with some sort of public service campaign to offset the negative image portrayed by radicals...because that campaign alone would be seen as 'intrusive and preachy' by some. So...? Maybe people, thinking creatures that we are, can get off our fat asses, and put even the slightest bit of effort into finding a bit more about a group we have heard vilified? We could choose NOT to join in the vilification without one-sided information...that would really be something, wouldn't it! Sorry...am I expecting too much of my fellow humans? *shrugs* Me and my high standards. Let the cretins wallow in their ignorant distaste for anything out of the 'normal' (according to them)...the rest of you probably already know better.


Oddly, I work with quite a few people from India.

They never bring up their diet, and I never talk about eating meat. When we pick a place for lunch, we try to pick a place everyone can be happy with.

The only people I've ever gotten the "holier than thou" treatment from was PETA vegans.

It's just not that big of a deal - I think you have a strawman that somehow you're being harassed or thought ill of just because you decided not to eat meat.

Most of us have the sense to know that you eat what you want, and may have a polite discussion about it. What I object to is PETA vegan protesters coming into a restaurant and spitting on my lunch so I won't eat it.

For every animal you don't eat, I'm going to eat three.-Maddox

That pretty much says my stance on vegetarianism.

All I know is I like my chunky beef stew and no force in heaven or hell or in between is making me give that up.

Oddly, I work with quite a few people from India.

They never bring up their diet, and I never talk about eating meat. When we pick a place for lunch, we try to pick a place everyone can be happy with.

The only people I've ever gotten the "holier than thou" treatment from was PETA vegans.

It's just not that big of a deal - I think you have a strawman that somehow you're being harassed or thought ill of just because you decided not to eat meat.

Most of us have the sense to know that you eat what you want, and may have a polite discussion about it. What I object to is PETA vegan protesters coming into a restaurant and spitting on my lunch so I won't eat it.
Read some of the responses of vegetarians/vegans in this thread (I am not one of them) who have been lectured about not eating meat. In fact, read the responses of those who think that not eating meat is some sort of statement of moral superiority, and therefore stupid. This is not a strawman. In the West, we tend to think that a change in diet like this is some sort of radical political statement BECAUSE of groups like PETA. I've never seen a PETA protest, or met a PETA protester...but I have met many, many people who think that vegetarians or vegans are ridiculous for their DIETARY CHOICE.

Read some of the responses of vegetarians/vegans in this thread (I am not one of them) who have been lectured about not eating meat. In fact, read the responses of those who think that not eating meat is some sort of statement of moral superiority, and therefore stupid. This is not a strawman. In the West, we tend to think that a change in diet like this is some sort of radical political statement BECAUSE of groups like PETA. I've never seen a PETA protest, or met a PETA protester...but I have met many, many people who think that vegetarians or vegans are ridiculous for their DIETARY CHOICE.

Maybe it would help if PETA was dissolved. We won't be waiting too long for that in the US. The FBI already considers them to be a terrorist-supporting organization (supporting the ELF and ALF).

My impression of vegetarians was utterly ruined by just one man. He is a fellow researcher at my institute.

Although a researcher by profession he is a closet spiritualist. He considers all scientific data as superficial, and that the spiritual realm really runs the Universe.

He says he is a vegetarian for health reasons, but omits certain vegetables like onions and garlic, which indicates that he has religious (Buddhist) reasons. A avid activist, he is member of a vegetarian association and often distributes vegetarian periodicals and stacks of Buddhist pamphlets in our lab pantry.

He hates science but does it because it pays him well. He passes around vegetarian pamphlets claiming that human ancestors were all vegetarians, and that humans are "designed" for eating plants. Even though the science is obviously wrong. He sends emails from PETA to everyone, even though he knows that we use research animals like mice.

For being such an insufferable hypocrite, he utterly and irreversibly smashed my previously positive image of vegetarians.

That's like saying that it's Fred Phelps' fault that you think all Christians are fucking morons.

That's like saying that it's Fred Phelps' fault that you think all Christians are fucking morons.

And how many times a month does that get posted on NS?

How many times do people post that Christians are fucking idiots who are slope-headed beady-eyed inbred mouth breathers?

Quite a bit. And as justification, they hold up Pat Robertson and Fred Phelps.

You would think that there wasn't a nice Christian anywhere on the planet - just a bunch of backwards inbred low-IQ assholes.

I'm really sorry that PETA isn't active in Canada the way it is down here - you know, burning cars, torching labs, and stomping through restaurants spitting on food, showing up without permission at elementary schools and distributing pamphlets of bloody organs to small children.

That's like saying that it's Fred Phelps' fault that you think all Christians are fucking morons.

I am saying that Christians like Fred Phelps are fucking morons. Any vegetarian who behaves like that guy earns my ire.

I should mention that there is another researcher in my institute who is truely a vegetarian for dietary reasons. We get along well.

It still really amuses me how heated this argument is. as far as I'm concerned, the argument over vegetarianism is just like any other argument, with people arguing that either side is more moral and some people who are obnoxious and loud, and the majority who are not.

In my view, I'm just fine with vegetarians and vegans, as long as they don't turn on me. (Not that all of them do, of course, but some). I have a problem with anyone who claims too loudly that their way of things is RIGHT-- be it health, social issues or (actually, especially) religion.
Moderation in all things.

Oh yeah, and someone said that they'd only eaten a little meat, and the rest was jello or muffins. Is it just me, or does that seem a little unhealthy?

One reason why I'm not a vegetarian-- I'd eat really badly if I was.

And how many times a month does that get posted on NS?

How many times do people post that Christians are fucking idiots who are slope-headed beady-eyed inbred mouth breathers?

Quite a bit. And as justification, they hold up Pat Robertson and Fred Phelps.

You would think that there wasn't a nice Christian anywhere on the planet - just a bunch of backwards inbred low-IQ assholes.

I'm really sorry that PETA isn't active in Canada the way it is down here - you know, burning cars, torching labs, and stomping through restaurants spitting on food, showing up without permission at elementary schools and distributing pamphlets of bloody organs to small children.

lol

That's like saying that it's Fred Phelps' fault that you think all Christians are fucking morons.In this case, I'll take my fellow vegans over Christians any day :p

Girls & boys, try to be honest with yourselves for a moment. When was the last time you heard a vegan or vegetarian try to change someone's diet? When was the last time you heard a meat eater try to change someone's diet?

I can honestly say that I've met hundreds of individuals who've personally tried to change my mind about consuming animal products. A couple have even tried to put animal products in my food.
I have met all of two people who tried to convince others to become vegans, and unlike the vast majority of my fellow NSGers, I've been hanging out with vegans all my life.

If it's cool by you lot to hate & scorn a demographic because of a few idiots, doesn't that mean we vegans have every reason to hate you non-vegans? Or are you just hypocrites?

Girls & boys, try to be honest with yourselves for a moment. When was the last time you heard a vegan or vegetarian try to change someone's diet?

The PETA people sweep through the restaurants around where I work about once a week.

They distribute their bloody organ pictures outside the schools here about once a week.

Any more questions?

The PETA people sweep through the restaurants around where I work about once a week.

They distribute their bloody organ pictures outside the schools here about once a week.

Any more questions?Yes. When did I join the PETA?

Yes. When did I join the PETA?
You said "how many vegetarians/vegans".

Most of the vegetarians I personally know are from India. And they NEVER bring it up. NEVER.

And we never harass them about eating meat. Never.

I could care less about the vast majority of vegatarians. But PETA has a special place in my heart forever.

It still really amuses me how heated this argument is. as far as I'm concerned, the argument over vegetarianism is just like any other argument, with people arguing that either side is more moral and some people who are obnoxious and loud, and the majority who are not.

In my view, I'm just fine with vegetarians and vegans, as long as they don't turn on me. (Not that all of them do, of course, but some). I have a problem with anyone who claims too loudly that their way of things is RIGHT-- be it health, social issues or (actually, especially) religion.
Moderation in all things.

Oh yeah, and someone said that they'd only eaten a little meat, and the rest was jello or muffins. Is it just me, or does that seem a little unhealthy?

One reason why I'm not a vegetarian-- I'd eat really badly if I was.

I understand your view. But please try to empathise.

That guy in my institute. He is biochemistry trained. An expert in microarrays with a good publication record.

Yet he brings in stacks of Buddhist pamphlets and vegetarian propaganda day after day after day. Sending email from his hero Peter Singer to everyone. On official email! Yet management seem not to notice?

He looks down on non-vegetarians. He looks down on scientists. He worships Plato and his allegory of the cave, insisting that science is merely superficial nonsense. The true essence of the Universe lay in the spiritual. In mediation and chanting.

He is relentless! No amount of discussion can make him see another other person's point of view! And he just doesn't quit! He won't quit! He is laughing us his fellow researchers that no matter how unhappy we are, he has a trump card in the management that lets him "get out of jail free".

Why oh why did we have the misfortune of knowing this monster? Why? Why? Why? :(

You said "how many vegetarians/vegans".My bad, sorry.

The PETA people sweep through the restaurants around where I work about once a week.

They distribute their bloody organ pictures outside the schools here about once a week.

Any more questions?

Yes, then you will understand what I am going through. Day after day after day after day after day after day...

*sobs*

The PETA people sweep through the restaurants around where I work about once a week.

They distribute their bloody organ pictures outside the schools here about once a week.


Which, you might say, is almost as bad as meat-eaters who (as attested by people in this thread) try to force or trick vegetarians into eating meat. Does this mean I should look down on, and stereotype, all meat-eaters?

Perhaps the reason I don't is because I'm able to distinguish individuals within a vastly heterogeneous group, and not to stereotype.


I could care less about the vast majority of vegatarians.

Good, but that's "couldn't care less". If you say you could care less, it means that... well, you could. It means you do care, at least a little. The correct expression ("I couldn't care less") indicates that you care so little that it would not be possible for you to care less.

No offence, but it still baffles me that people use the English language without thinking about the meaning of what they're saying. But then, perhaps that's because I've studied linguistics. Now I tend to automatically analyse everything.

Which, you might say, is almost as bad as meat-eaters who (as attested by people in this thread) try to force or trick vegetarians into eating meat. Does this mean I should look down on, and stereotype, all meat-eaters?

Perhaps the reason I don't is because I'm able to distinguish individuals within a vastly heterogeneous group, and not to stereotype.



Good, but that's "couldn't care less". If you say you could care less, it means that... well, you could. It means you do care, at least a little. The correct expression ("I couldn't care less") indicates that you care so little that it would not be possible for you to care less.

No offence, but it still baffles me that people use the English language without thinking about the meaning of what they're saying. But then, perhaps that's because I've studied linguistics. Now I tend to automatically analyse everything.

You don't understand! We recruited this guy! He TOLD us he had no problems with animal work, that he understood the importance of animal models. He said he could do animal work.

But soon after we employed him, he revealed his true colors. He avoided all aspects of animal work and waited for us to sacrifice the animals so that he can use the cells for his microarray experiments!

Can you see the hypocrisy? He used our hands to kill the animals, and then looks down on us for being immoral murderers! Yet management turns a blind eye and even let the newspapers interview him as a "model" scientist. Why? Why? Why?

I am going insane *sobs*

Can you see the hypocrisy? He used our hands to kill the animals, and then looks down on us for being immoral murderers!

Yes, I can. The guy is obviously below contempt, and even I - who am used to seeing hypocrisy in these fora - have to see he brings hypocrisy to mind-blowingly new levels.

You don't understand! We recruited this guy! He TOLD us he had no problems with animal work, that he understood the importance of animal models. He said he could do animal work.

But soon after we employed him, he revealed his true colors. He avoided all aspects of animal work and waited for us to sacrifice the animals so that he can use the cells for his microarray experiments!

Can you see the hypocrisy? He used our hands to kill the animals, and then looks down on us for being immoral murderers! Yet management turns a blind eye and even let the newspapers interview him as a "model" scientist. Why? Why? Why?

I am going insane *sobs*

As irritating as this guy sounds, if it bothers you as much as it seems to, maybe you should actually confront him about it? Or speak with your superviser about his activities? You know, actually do something about it instead of just complaining on an internet forum about it?

Good, but that's "couldn't care less". If you say you could care less, it means that... well, you could. It means you do care, at least a little. The correct expression ("I couldn't care less") indicates that you care so little that it would not be possible for you to care less.


All linguistics is local.

That said...

By "I couldn't care less if someone is a vegetarian" means that they can eat vegetables all they like, and I'm never going to criticize them for doing so, nor lecture them about eating meat, nor trick them into eating it.

There seems to be this assumption by some of the vegetarians in this thread that every meat eater out there is some vacuous asshole just waiting to shove meat in your mouth against your will.

Most meat eaters aren't the assholes you claim. Just as most vegetarians are silently enjoying their lives.

The only people I can't stand are PETA members.

It lowers the chances of heart attack but you're always at some risk.

Well thats my point. If youre going to have a heart attack, youre going to have a heart attack, regardless of what you eat.

Yeah, but I do not intend to kill any animals.

I dont intend on killing any either, but when they are dead, I eat them.

Yes, I can. The guy is obviously below contempt, and even I - who am used to seeing hypocrisy in these fora - have to see he brings hypocrisy to mind-blowingly new levels.

Let me stress again that the other researcher, an indian lady, has never bragged about her vegetarian diet, nor sent us any form of propaganda. I even have no idea if she has a religion or not, because she only talks science with us. Because she likes science!

Do I hate her? Of course not. We have a good working relationship.

But this guy... he is SO different. Why? Why? Why? Day after day after day after day after day... for three fucking years he has not changed a single bit. He just does microarray. So where do the cells come from, drop from the sky? From animals dammit. But he won't dirty his hands, no sirree, that where we dirty murderers come in to do his deed.

We kill mice so that he can press buttons and make clean beautiful charts. Yet all day he bombards us with antiscience and religious bullshit. I used to think that Buddhist was cool. But day after day after day after day after day... now I'm not so sure. If Buddhist is so cool how can it inspire such a hypocrite like him? If he hates science so much (he aspires to be a traditional healer) why doesn't he leave? Just leave! Fuck off!

But yet he stays to torment us. Because his publication is good his pay skyrocketed. The ultimate two-faced man. And there is nothing we can do about it. Nothing! This is madness!

By "I couldn't care less if someone is a vegetarian" means that they can eat vegetables all they like, and I'm never going to criticize them for doing so, nor lecture them about eating meat, nor trick them into eating it.

Good. Thank you.


There seems to be this assumption by some of the vegetarians in this thread that every meat eater out there is some vacuous asshole just waiting to shove meat in your mouth against your will.

Most meat eaters aren't the assholes you claim.

I haven't claimed they are. Quite the reverse.


I dont intend on killing any either, but when they are dead, I eat them.

Since you bring this up... You make it sound as if they die of natural causes, or as if their death had nothing to do with you - while in fact you are the cause of it.

Just setting that straight. You may not consider that wrong, but don't deny something that's true.

As irritating as this guy sounds, if it bothers you as much as it seems to, maybe you should actually confront him about it? Or speak with your superviser about his activities? You know, actually do something about it instead of just complaining on an internet forum about it?

I am just ranting, sorry. This thread has reopened an old wound. He is holding the ear of his supervisor, so there is nothing more anyone can do. We are just hoping that he will quit after his contract expires in three years. I don't care if he gets promoted to become the Director of another institute. I just don't want to see his face.

I think I have also inadvertently shown you guys how the science industry is far from being exempt from politics. I really feel for, say, the co-workers of two-faced creationists who later leave science to join the Discovery Institute.

I am just ranting, sorry. This thread has reopened an old wound. He is holding the ear of his supervisor, so there is nothing more anyone can do. We are just hoping that he will quit after his contract expires in three years. I don't care if he gets promoted to become the Director of another institute. I just don't want to see his face.

I think I have also inadvertently shown you guys how the science industry is far from being exempt from politics. I really feel for, say, the co-workers of two-faced creationists who later leave science to join the Discovery Institute.

Well, this guy sounds like an asshole. But if there's nothing you can do, there's nothing you can do, except grin and bear it, I guess.

... Was anyone really under the impression that scientific industry is free from politics? Seriously, if anyone still had been in the last 5 years, this shit over stem cell research surely would have dispelled any such illusions.

Why not? Lots of protein.

I did mean just eating beans and nothing else can't be good for you, and the body needs more than just protein ;)

I dont intend on killing any either, but when they are dead, I eat them.
A scavenger! Well done (*hands him a magpie totem).

Well now, I say if you're vegan, go ahead and be vegan, but don't snark at me because I'm not.

As a pagan, I've had vegetarians and vegans more or less attack my beliefs, saying I respect nature because of my religion, yet I eat the poor ickle dead animals. I respond that I believe every living thing has a soul--including plants. I can't exactly starve myself to death for their sake, now can I? It is natural, and the way the world was meant to be--everything lives by eating something else. Granted, some of our methods are humans are uneccesarily cruel--but the handful of people who refuse to eat meat or animal products are not going to save those animals.

I understand not all vegans and vegetarians are militant about it--it's just the rare few morons who are that piss me off.

Well thats my point. If youre going to have a heart attack, youre going to have a heart attack, regardless of what you eat.


learn to read.
"It lowers the chances of heart attack but you're always at some risk."

Thats why child obesity is a problem (other then fat people are ugly). It raises the chances of disease almost everything you eat effects your health later in life. By that I don't mean one chocolate bar will kill you... unless those crazy americaims poisioned it :eek: but moderation. Yeah...

Generally the vegetarians and vegans you hear about are the ones doing some preaching about it. Millions of others just do it, and leave it at that. So why are you letting this small group of people poison your perception of vegetarians/vegans (if indeed you have a negative perception)?

It's simple. It's the same with lefties who point to extremist evengelist-things, extremist rightwingers, and rightwingers who point out the extremist left positions and say that that is the norm. It's imbeciles who want to discredit all of them.

I'm really sorry that PETA isn't active in Canada the way it is down here - you know, burning cars, torching labs, and stomping through restaurants spitting on food, showing up without permission at elementary schools and distributing pamphlets of bloody organs to small children.

are you iliving vicariously thru anti-PETA articles or something? because there is now way you have seen all of this with your own eyes.

I've lived in several cities in several US states (big and small - Los Angeles, CA, St George, UT, Cedar Rapids, IA and Las Vegas, NV for example) and have NEVER met a PETA member nor have I seen a PETA protest and no I don't live under a rock. They just aren't as active in the entire US as you seem to be implying. I've seen the articles of what they have done (very rarely) but they are such a small minority that it's silly to act as if it's some huge phenomenon here (if thats what you are doing).

I never had anyone try to convert me to vegetarianism when I was a meat-eater but I have had the majority of meat-eaters try to debate me about why I should eat meat once they find out my diet of choice.

EAT MEAT!!!

Join the VLF!

No...seriously...theres a website out there called the Vegetable Liberation Front.

Eating a veg is murder...

Personally I'd vote for that :)

http://www.geocities.com/rainforest/vines/3652/

http://www.geocities.com/rainforest/vines/3652/cav2.JPG

Well now, I say if you're vegan, go ahead and be vegan, but don't snark at me because I'm not.

As a pagan, I've had vegetarians and vegans more or less attack my beliefs, saying I respect nature because of my religion, yet I eat the poor ickle dead animals. I respond that I believe every living thing has a soul--including plants. I can't exactly starve myself to death for their sake, now can I? It is natural, and the way the world was meant to be--everything lives by eating something else. Granted, some of our methods are humans are uneccesarily cruel--but the handful of people who refuse to eat meat or animal products are not going to save those animals.

I understand not all vegans and vegetarians are militant about it--it's just the rare few morons who are that piss me off.

My uncle is in the meat business and talked shit to me for being vegetarian because he says "you damn vegetarians are ruinning my business. the more your stupid movement grows the less profit I make. I might have to close down because I am just getting by." I said that he should carry fake meats too then. :p

I've got no problem with vegitarians/vegans who don't give me crap about eating meat. I'm moderately puzzled that some people become vegitarians, but not vegans (I don't understand what logic they base the decision to just not eat meat on, since the arguments I've seen against eating meat tend to apply to cheese, milk, and eggs as well).

In fact, I'd probably be a vegan if it weren't for the moralistic fucks who I put up with preaching about how "Meat is murder". I don't think that meat is murder, but I do think that planning a diet for a small planet isn't a bad idea. While my action and name would be associated with PETA and it's brand of terrorist bastards, I can't and won't change my diet.

So yeah... I have no problem with vegitarianism. PETA and it's tree-hugging, bomb-weilding, hypocrite supporters... Well, I've got no use for them.