NationStates Jolt Archive

Managers at a Wal-Mart recieved a bomb threat, but instead of evacuating and letting the bomb squad search the building, they forced their employees to search for the potentially deadly explosive. No bomb was found.

It's nice to know Wal-Mart cares enough about it's customer's safety to force it's untrained employees to do explosive ordinance disposal jobs.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060711.wwalmart0711/BNStory/National/home

I think it actually makes sense to ask employees if they'd be willing to help in such a search--who better to see if something is out of place or unusual than someone who works there? But it should have been voluntary, and the customers should have been evacuated.

I think you should get a job writing headlines for newspapers.

Managers at a Wal-Mart recieved a bomb threat, but instead of evacuating and letting the bomb squad search the building, they forced their employees to search for the potentially deadly explosive. No bomb was found.

It's nice to know Wal-Mart cares enough about it's customer's safety to force it's untrained employees to do explosive ordinance disposal jobs.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060711.wwalmart0711/BNStory/National/home


I wonder what exactly the managers expected the employee's to do if they found the bomb....

what does walmart care, if the employies die, they get bush to say it was the employies falt, they hire new employies, and everyone wins, well exept the people who died, but who cares about them (im sarcastic)

I think it actually makes sense to ask employees if they'd be willing to help in such a search--who better to see if something is out of place or unusual than someone who works there? But it should have been voluntary, and the customers should have been evacuated.
Customers were evacuated, but store employees were ordered to search for a bomb. Fuck that. For Wal-Mart wages you can't expect someone to risk his life.

I wonder what exactly the managers expected the employee's to do if they found the bomb....
Well don't just stand there Mabel, disarm the sucker. Afterward you can take lunch break.

Customers were evacuated, but store employees were ordered to search for a bomb. Fuck that. For Wal-Mart wages you can't expect someone to risk his life.

I see a lawsuit.

I see a lawsuit.
I certainly hope so! Walmart is so damn shady...you want a union? We'd rather shut the store. You want a bathroom break? We dock your wages. You don't want to search for a bomb? You aren't a team player...we'll replace you with a handicapped boy who doesn't know any better.

If a lawsuit comes, it will fail. Wal-mart has been sued for so many things they do to their employies, and they always win and fire the employies who tried to be treated fairly.

Customers were evacuated, but store employees were ordered to search for a bomb. Fuck that. For Wal-Mart wages you can't expect someone to risk his life.
I wonder if those employees would be interested in starting a union?

I wonder if those employees would be interested in starting a union?
They'd all be fired on the spot. That's just how Wal-Mart rolls.

Hmm, now here's an intresting question. Let's say you're the Wal-Mart employee who found the bomb, no one else knows you found it, what do you do?

Me, I would hold the store hostage and demand lotsa money! :D

I think it actually makes sense to ask employees if they'd be willing to help in such a search--who better to see if something is out of place or unusual than someone who works there? But it should have been voluntary, and the customers should have been evacuated.
I disagree with you. There is no reason why a civilian should ever be searching for a bomb. No amount of product or retail space is worth a human life.

That's messed up. Although, if nobody would work for WalMart, that would solve the problem...

Customers were evacuated, but store employees were ordered to search for a bomb. Fuck that. For Wal-Mart wages you can't expect someone to risk his life.

Um, asked would still be inappropriate, but I could probably argue that voluntary cooperation might be legal. But ordered? Oh no, lawsuit.

Hmm, now here's an intresting question. Let's say you're the Wal-Mart employee who found the bomb, no one else knows you found it, what do you do?

Me, I would hold the store hostage and demand lotsa money! :D
Walk to the oposite end of the store and tell the co-workers I like to follow me, then wait for the boom.

I wonder if those employees would be interested in starting a union?
WalMart hates unions...but Quebec managed to get two of their stores unionised...

I disagree with you. There is no reason why a civilian should ever be searching for a bomb. No amount of product or retail space is worth a human life.
I think I should be clearer here--if the police asked workers if they voluntarily wanted to help them look for things that were out of the ordinary and the workers said yes with no provacation or pressure from management, then I would have no problem with that. But it would have to be absolutely voluntary, and only with the experts being close at hand to protect the workers.

WalMart hates unions...but Quebec managed to get two of their stores unionised...
I know, and it's killing Wal-Mart to have to deal with that. In the US, they're pressuring the NLRB to relax the definition of who's considered a supervisor so they can reduce the number of people legally allowed to join unions.

I think I should be clearer here--if the police asked workers if they voluntarily wanted to help them look for things that were out of the ordinary and the workers said yes with no provacation or pressure from management, then I would have no problem with that. But it would have to be absolutely voluntary, and only with the experts being close at hand to protect the workers.
Maybe under those circumstances but I still think that the priority should be to get people who have no experience with bombs to a safe place and if it comes to it, watch the fireworks.

I think I should be clearer here--if the police asked workers if they voluntarily wanted to help them look for things that were out of the ordinary and the workers said yes with no provacation or pressure from management, then I would have no problem with that. But it would have to be absolutely voluntary, and only with the experts being close at hand to protect the workers.

That make sene. I agree with the others, I smell lawsuit. However, just like the Scam that is Scienctology, Wal-Mart has a top ace of legal teams.

I know, and it's killing Wal-Mart to have to deal with that. In the US, they're pressuring the NLRB to relax the definition of who's considered a supervisor so they can reduce the number of people legally allowed to join unions.


Yeah.... I really hate Wal-Mart. One reason I never shop there. E-bay all the way! :p

Maybe under those circumstances but I still think that the priority should be to get people who have no experience with bombs to a safe place and if it comes to it, watch the fireworks.
Oh no question. And you can bet your ass I'd be one of the many who were hauling ass out of the store, flipping my manager off on the way out the door.

I think I should be clearer here--if the police asked workers if they voluntarily wanted to help them look for things that were out of the ordinary and the workers said yes with no provacation or pressure from management, then I would have no problem with that. But it would have to be absolutely voluntary, and only with the experts being close at hand to protect the workers.
Six cops, 40 workers. To me, that is not enough supervision. I believe the police to be partially at fault here...there is no way they should have allowed civilians to to do this.

Could you imagine them asking a customer to do this? "Hey Ms.Nesbit...could you check the garden centre for a bomb?" I do not for a second buy that a WalMart employee is somehow qualified to do this when a customer would not be.

...
duh.
...
like Wal-Mart is capable of caring.

Six cops, 40 workers. To me, that is not enough supervision. I believe the police to be partially at fault here...there is no way they should have allowed civilians to to do this.

Yea, but from what I understand, the supervisor ordered their employees to search for the bombs, it doesn't say if police were there or not.

...
duh.
...
like Wal-Mart is capable of caring.
Blue light special on Caring, aisle three?

Yea, but from what I understand, the supervisor ordered their employees to search for the bombs, it doesn't say if police were there or not.
Managers at a local Wal-Mart forced employees to search the store after it received a bomb threat, Radio-Canada reported Monday.

Some 40 nervous employees searched the store for an hour last Thursday, said Mailie Fournier, a former employee of the store. They were accompanied by six police officers.

The police were there.

Blue light special on Caring, aisle three?
More like Sorry, we stopped stocking caring a few months back...how about some hate instead?

Ya know what – why not?
Bomb threats are made all the time – and 99% of them are completely bogus.

The sheer cost of having bomb disposal personnel search a wallmart is obscene. In my opinion the likelihood of it being a legitimate bombing was outweighed by the cost of it being a false alarm.

Besides, as the previous poster said, who better to find something unusual than those that stocked the shelves in the first place?

If they had to shutdown for a day every time someone called in a threat, it would not take long before some idiot anti-globalization, neo-marxist, or whatever group decides to do this to all the stores all the time.

Searching for explosives may not have been in the job description, but that doesn’t mean the employees shouldn’t have helped the police search. If a guy working at the Gap sees a woman being raped in the dressing rooms, should he just say “not in my job description to stop rape, let the cops deal with this” or should he intervene? Ok, ok, so that’s a bit of a red herring, but you get my point.

Maybe the employees were former bomb disposal officers, put out of their job by Wal-mart employees doing bomb disposal instead, and ended up working in Wal-mart.

Ya know what – why not?
Bomb threats are made all the time – and 99% of them are completely bogus.

The sheer cost of having bomb disposal personnel search a wallmart is obscene. In my opinion the likelihood of it being a legitimate bombing was outweighed by the cost of it being a false alarm. Bullshit. It is standard procedure to take all threats seriously. That is why it is a crime to make false threats...a federal offense I might add...with some serious jail time. It is not up to the supervisor of the store to determine whether or not a bomb threat will be taken seriously or not. If it is indeed WalMart policy to NOT take these threats seriously...or to only evacuate customers, then I seriously hope there is an investigation into this policy, and fines to go along with it.

Besides, as the previous poster said, who better to find something unusual than those that stocked the shelves in the first place?

If they had to shutdown for a day every time someone called in a threat, it would not take long before some idiot anti-globalization, neo-marxist, or whatever group decides to do this to all the stores all the time. Yeah, no time at all. Because it's not like making bomb threats is a big deal or anything...:rolleyes:

Ya know what – why not?
Bomb threats are made all the time – and 99% of them are completely bogus.

The sheer cost of having bomb disposal personnel search a wallmart is obscene. In my opinion the likelihood of it being a legitimate bombing was outweighed by the cost of it being a false alarm.

Cool, so risking the lives of untrained people who aren't payed to risk their lives is ok. I'll remember that. Cost justifies anything. :rolleyes:

Searching for explosives may not have been in the job description, but that doesn’t mean the employees shouldn’t have helped the police search. If a guy working at the Gap sees a woman being raped in the dressing rooms, should he just say “not in my job description to stop rape, let the cops deal with this” or should he intervene? Ok, ok, so that’s a bit of a red herring, but you get my point.

They have the legal duty to call the cops, but as they are unlikely to be a trained professional, they probably do not have the job of stopping it (And might well make it worse by stepping in). While they probably have the moral duty to act, in such a direct case, many professionals would prefer that they call a security officer or a policeman, to avoid risking lives.

Ya know what – why not?
Bomb threats are made all the time – and 99% of them are completely bogus.

The sheer cost of having bomb disposal personnel search a wallmart is obscene. In my opinion the likelihood of it being a legitimate bombing was outweighed by the cost of it being a false alarm.

Besides, as the previous poster said, who better to find something unusual than those that stocked the shelves in the first place?

If they had to shutdown for a day every time someone called in a threat, it would not take long before some idiot anti-globalization, neo-marxist, or whatever group decides to do this to all the stores all the time.

Searching for explosives may not have been in the job description, but that doesn’t mean the employees shouldn’t have helped the police search. If a guy working at the Gap sees a woman being raped in the dressing rooms, should he just say “not in my job description to stop rape, let the cops deal with this” or should he intervene? Ok, ok, so that’s a bit of a red herring, but you get my point.
Excellent. Now I just need an untracable cellphone...

They're just trying to improve work ethic..

Excellent. Now I just need an untracable cellphone...

Do yu have Pay As Tou Talk cellphones in the US?

Do yu have Pay As Tou Talk cellphones in the US?
In my experience they need your personal information but I'm not really sure.

They sell prepaid cellular phones at 7/11. Just activate them with a call from a pay phone that doesn't have a surveilance camera nearby. Can't find one of those? Just disable the camera. Or activate them by calling with someone's stolen cell phone and ditch the stolen one when you're done.

Or just steals someones phone then use that to call in the threat then ditch it

Occam's Razor.

In my experience they need your personal information but I'm not really sure.

Really? Here in the UK you can go into just about any newsagents and get a PAYT sim card for about £5, no questions asked

You can use one stolen cellphone to activate a dozen or more prepaid cell phones. Keep some in reserve for later. Less stealing means less chance of getting caught.

Good point

You know what? Forget I said anything. It's a bad idea, like most of my ideas, and may well result in prison time.

You know what? Forget I said anything. It's a bad idea, like most of my ideas, and may well result in prison time.
I declare that the previous ten posts were done in the name of sarcasm!

I think it actually makes sense to ask employees if they'd be willing to help in such a search--who better to see if something is out of place or unusual than someone who works there? But it should have been voluntary, and the customers should have been evacuated.
When we had a bomb threat at the first movie theater I worked at the bomb people came out with an old time clock we had stored behind a screen.

If i was working at a place and they asked me to look for a bomb, i would look at my boss, raise my middle finger, tell him fo F off, and find a job that didnt try and kill me for 6$ an hour

If i was working at a place and they asked me to look for a bomb, i would look at my boss, raise my middle finger, tell him fo F off, and find a job that didnt try and kill me for 6$ an hour
I'd probably go with the slightly more reserved, "Yeah, I'm not doing that."

WalMart hates unions...but Quebec managed to get two of their stores unionised...

Wal-Marts UK subsidiary, ASDA, and was refusing to recognise unions even thoough that is illegal in the UK. So long as the Union follows a set procedure to prove that itis wanted then it has to be recognised for collective bargaining. Guess what- the workers went to go on strike about it, (following the rules set down by government) the Wal-Mart execs said yeah go on strike, we'll fire you, then their lawyers went- "You can't do that over here. You'll be fined millions in punitive damages in court" Wal-Mart had to back down. :D

Canada dipshit. Bush, what the heck are you thinking? Just about as good as blaming him for New Orleans because he hates black people. Perhaps its easy to blame everything on Bush, I'd very much like to trade people like you for illegal immigrants.
Get your head out of your ass.
Do you have blacks, too?
-- Washington, DC, March 2001, during Bush's first meeting with Brazilian President Fernando Henrique Cardoso. Reported April 28, 2002 by columnist Fernando Pedreira of the Estado Sao Paulo in an article titled "An Overwhelming Ignorance."

Just saying...

Do you have blacks, too?
-- Washington, DC, March 2001, during Bush's first meeting with Brazilian President Fernando Henrique Cardoso. Reported April 28, 2002 by columnist Fernando Pedreira of the Estado Sao Paulo in an article titled "An Overwhelming Ignorance."

Just saying...
Wow, I wonder if someone has ever told him that Peru had a Japanese president once. That would blow his mind.

what does walmart care, if the employies die, they get bush to say it was the employies falt, they hire new employies, and everyone wins, well exept the people who died, but who cares about them (im sarcastic)

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or just plain stupid. (im serious)

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or just plain stupid. (im serious)
Yeah, I was having the same problem. I took him for stupid since he blames Bush without a credible reference. Any idiot can do that. Sarcasm is usually somewhat humourous too.

I don't shop at Wal Mart because...

1.) When I'm at home, the closest store is the local K-Mart. It's ancient, but it's cheap, and it's making money hand over fist. They're the only store of their kind in North Canton, and to get to the nearest Wal-Mart it's a fifteen minute drive, as opposed to the fiver that it is for K-Mart.

2.) When I'm in Columbus at school, I don't even know where the nearest Wal-Mart is. The Lennox supercenter, where they have a Target, is the nearest large shopping thing available, and there is no Wal-Mart there.

3.) My father spent time as the primary distribution agent of the Hoover Company for dealing with Wal-Mart. He came away from two years of that way bald and with a stomach ulcer.

If my manager made me go in and find a bomb, if I found it, I would bring it out and toss it to him.

Bullshit. It is standard procedure to take all threats seriously. That is why it is a crime to make false threats...a federal offense I might add...with some serious jail time. It is not up to the supervisor of the store to determine whether or not a bomb threat will be taken seriously or not. If it is indeed WalMart policy to NOT take these threats seriously...or to only evacuate customers, then I seriously hope there is an investigation into this policy, and fines to go along with it.

Yeah, no time at all. Because it's not like making bomb threats is a big deal or anything...:rolleyes:
As I recall from the actual text in the article, the store was within Canadian law to refrain from evacuation until something suspicious was found. If you're going to condemn someone, condemn the Quebecois.

As I recall from the actual text in the article, the store was within Canadian law to refrain from evacuation until something suspicious was found. If you're going to condemn someone, condemn the Quebecois.

If the police were also there (as the article states), why didn't the police order an evacuation?

Here in the US, if your building gets a bomb threat, and the police are called, they ORDER you out of the building, whether you like it or not.

They have the legal duty to call the cops, but as they are unlikely to be a trained professional, they probably do not have the job of stopping it (And might well make it worse by stepping in). While they probably have the moral duty to act, in such a direct case, many professionals would prefer that they call a security officer or a policeman, to avoid risking lives.

Ugh. That post just sickens me.

And to think, the founder of walmart had the bright idea to treat his employees with respect.

They'd all be fired on the spot. That's just how Wal-Mart rolls.
Since when do retail stores need a union? You don't like it? Get another fucking retail job or get some marketable skills.
Not that I support this bullshit.

Yeah, I was having the same problem. I took him for stupid since he blames Bush without a credible reference. Any idiot can do that. Sarcasm is usually somewhat humourous too.
http://www.dccc.org/stakeholder/archives/002163.html
http://www.wakeupwalmart.com/press/20060202.html


and any idiot can call someone else one just for having a different opinion

and here is why bush likes walmart, they give him lots of money

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/retail/2004-02-02-walmart_x.htm

:cool:

Ugh. That post just sickens me.

Welcome to reality. We aren't all superman. We can do our best, but there's a reason that cops go through a great deal of training. Things like defusing dangerous situations, covert ops, and training to insure that innocents are not harmed are there for a reason. An untrained, unprepared bystander is not necessarily going to make things better. I'm not saying do nothing, but I am saying that caution is important in dangerous situations. He who goes charging in uncarefully is endangering everyone.

What if stepping in had caused the man to draw a gun, kill his victim and then kill others? What if a police officer was capable of preventing that from happening? A regular person is not special, no matter what they tell themselves, and a good samaritin can cause great harm if they act without care and caution.

Welcome to the real world. Bad things happen to good people, and good people can incidently do great harm. Caution and training can save lives. That's why we train people.

Welcome to the real world. Bad things happen to good people, and good people can incidently do great harm.

great point

I wonder what exactly the managers expected the employee's to do if they found the bomb....

Mark down the price and put one of those smiley face stickers on it.

Mark down the price and put one of those smiley face stickers on it.
Some hick would pick it up and use it to decorate his lawn.

Blue light special on Caring, aisle three?

blue light is K mart

blue light is K mart
I thought so...wasn't sure.

Welcome to reality. We aren't all superman. We can do our best, but there's a reason that cops go through a great deal of training. Things like defusing dangerous situations, covert ops, and training to insure that innocents are not harmed are there for a reason. An untrained, unprepared bystander is not necessarily going to make things better. I'm not saying do nothing, but I am saying that caution is important in dangerous situations. He who goes charging in uncarefully is endangering everyone.

What if stepping in had caused the man to draw a gun, kill his victim and then kill others? What if a police officer was capable of preventing that from happening? A regular person is not special, no matter what they tell themselves, and a good samaritin can cause great harm if they act without care and caution.

Welcome to the real world. Bad things happen to good people, and good people can incidently do great harm. Caution and training can save lives. That's why we train people.

People like you are how unarmed people can rob banks.
You cannot say - oh sorry, I called the cops so they should be here in 20 minutes. In the mean time, just try to think happy thoughts while you are being raped, because im not going to lift a finger to try to save you.

Perhaps you identify with some female characters you see in movies sometimes in scenes where the protaganist is fighting with some bad guy and the woman just stands there instead of helping.

Tell you what... when you are choking to death, I will just call an ambulance (actually the coroner would probably be the logical option) rather than try to help :)

Bomb threats are virtually always bogus. Why would you warn people that you're going to kill them?

Since when do retail stores need a union? You don't like it? Get another fucking retail job or get some marketable skills.
Not that I support this bullshit.
Personally I favor unionizing any and every place of employment. I'm in love with what the SEIU is doing unionizing janitors and other service industry workers.

People like you are how unarmed people can rob banks.
You cannot say - oh sorry, I called the cops so they should be here in 20 minutes. In the mean time, just try to think happy thoughts while you are being raped, because im not going to lift a finger to try to save you.

Perhaps you identify with some female characters you see in movies sometimes in scenes where the protaganist is fighting with some bad guy and the woman just stands there instead of helping.

Tell you what... when you are choking to death, I will just call an ambulance (actually the coroner would probably be the logical option) rather than try to help :)

Any person can punch and kick. Any person can call 911. Not just anyone can properly identify and defuse an explosive, much less one hiddden in a department store.

Sometimes you can help yourself and sometimes you can't. Recognizing the difference can either keep you alive or earn you a Darwin Award.

People like you are how unarmed people can rob banks.
You cannot say - oh sorry, I called the cops so they should be here in 20 minutes. In the mean time, just try to think happy thoughts while you are being raped, because im not going to lift a finger to try to save you.

Perhaps you identify with some female characters you see in movies sometimes in scenes where the protaganist is fighting with some bad guy and the woman just stands there instead of helping.

Tell you what... when you are choking to death, I will just call an ambulance (actually the coroner would probably be the logical option) rather than try to help :)


and people like you are why bombs that a trained professional explode when you try to be the hero and disarm it yourself, and kill everyone. Or why people get killed trying to attack armed men to save the day, not actually doing anything but causing more death. Stopping a rape or someone choking is nothing like rushing a guy with a gun or disarming a bomb, don’t compare apples to hand grenades

My boyfriend works at Wally World (it's a job) and they really don't care about their employees at all.

There was a gas leak at his store and they didn't evacuate. He ended up having to ask to be sent home after he became extremely ill. Two women at his store complained about being sexually harassed by an employee and they didn't fire the guy. Instead they just moved him to a different shift. The managers generally treat their employees like crap -a lot of favoritism and harassment. They put a block on transfers out of his store because so many employees wanted to go to a different store. I don't know if other stores are any better, though.

The only reason he still works there is because the pay is fair, more than he ever got anywhere else, and the hours fit our needs. I'm really not surprised to hear that they didn't evacuate for a bomb threat. That's BS.

As I recall from the actual text in the article, the store was within Canadian law to refrain from evacuation until something suspicious was found. If you're going to condemn someone, condemn the Quebecois.
MERDE!!!!

Bomb threats are virtually always bogus. Why would you warn people that you're going to kill them?
Because you want to destroy property, not people.

Personally I favor unionizing any and every place of employment. I'm in love with what the SEIU is doing unionizing janitors and other service industry workers.
Absolutely. It's the people on the bottom of the ladder that need protection and assurance that general labour codes are being honoured. Should only skilled workers need a union? In fact, skilled workers need this less, since they already weild more clout than your average janitor.

The cleaning industry, by the way, is a billion dollar, cut throat and very competitive one. My husband worked for two dollars below minimum wage back when his only English was "Fuck off" or "No English". Complain? You're fired...good luck finding another job, immigrant. It's the jobs that need unskilled labour that are often the most coercive, and the most exploitative. In these arenas, unions can be hugely important.

People like you are how unarmed people can rob banks.
You cannot say - oh sorry, I called the cops so they should be here in 20 minutes. In the mean time, just try to think happy thoughts while you are being raped, because im not going to lift a finger to try to save you.

Perhaps you identify with some female characters you see in movies sometimes in scenes where the protaganist is fighting with some bad guy and the woman just stands there instead of helping.

Tell you what... when you are choking to death, I will just call an ambulance (actually the coroner would probably be the logical option) rather than try to help :)


Yay for typecasting. It's not my fault I live in the real world. I do what I can where I can, and don't make things worse by trying to do more than I can. Guess what? People aren't superheroes. "Trying" isn't good enough. Stupid heroics lead to unnecessary casualties. They teach that to members of the military too.

In the case of someone in need of medical attention, you'll notice that we TRAIN people to preform the heimlich and CPR (because otherwise they'll just kill the person they are trying to save).

People like you are the reason that humans keep thinking that they can make the world better with broad sweeping gestures, that are ultimately meaningless. Do you identify with the hero who can't really adress the root of the problem, so instead decides to crush skulls? Or maybe the villain, who beleives that they can attain power in large, meaningless gestures?

You're helpless, same as the rest of us, because someone always has the bigger gun and the leverage to use it.

I love the unions

And to think, the founder of walmart had the bright idea to treat his employees with respect.

Indeed. He also believed in treating his customers with respect too. But both of those came to a quick end when he died.

Anyone else remember the signs that used to be over every cash register? They said that if a line ever had more than three people in it, they would open more registers to take up the slack. Old Sam wasn't even cold in his grave when they pulled down those signs and slashed their workforce to boost profits. Sam must be spinning in his grave.

Indeed. He also believed in treating his customers with respect too. But both of those came to a quick end when he died.

Anyone else remember the signs that used to be over every cash register? They said that if a line ever had more than three people in it, they would open more registers to take up the slack. Old Sam wasn't even cold in his grave when they pulled down those signs and slashed their workforce to boost profits. Sam must be spinning in his grave.
Sam was no prize. He was ruthless when it came to unions, and once tried to convince the federal government that a store located on Native American land shouldn't be subject to minimum wage law. He failed, thank goodness.

I still say it was done to help team unity and work ethics..

I think you should get a job writing headlines for newspapers.

Yeah, that's a good one.

Absolutely. It's the people on the bottom of the ladder that need protection and assurance that general labour codes are being honoured. Should only skilled workers need a union? In fact, skilled workers need this less, since they already weild more clout than your average janitor.

The cleaning industry, by the way, is a billion dollar, cut throat and very competitive one. My husband worked for two dollars below minimum wage back when his only English was "Fuck off" or "No English". Complain? You're fired...good luck finding another job, immigrant. It's the jobs that need unskilled labour that are often the most coercive, and the most exploitative. In these arenas, unions can be hugely important.
And in places where the SEIU has been able to organize, those people now make living wages. That was one of the things I loved about San Francisco--when there was a hotel workers strike, the mayor walked the line with them. And you know something? When you stayed in a hotel there, the workers didn't look like they were getting fucked over every day at work. They were actually pleasant.

Any peron can punch and kick.
Eva Peron can't punch and kick. Not until they sprinkle some zombie powder on her...

The managers generally treat their employees like crap -a lot of favoritism and harassment. They put a block on transfers out of his store because so many employees wanted to go to a different store. I don't know if other stores are any better, though.

It was exactly the same at the stores I worked at in both Texas and Minnesota (though to be fair the one in MN was marginally better). Our store blocked transfers too due to the appallingly high turnover and a mad scramble to leave for other stores. The smiley faced beast is truly dreadful to its workers.

At one point the store I was working for moved to computer scheduling of workers. "The computer" fired 1/3 of our workforce. People would come in to see what their schedule for he next two weeks would be just to find they weren't on it anymore. When people asked why they weren't on the schedule, management told them that the computer let them go and it was out of their hands. There was no official termination notice or anything. This way they didn't have to take responsibility. Bastards! That was when morale in our store dropped like a rock and turnover became rampant. And it just went downhill from there. And after I successfully organized a petition and sent it off to Bentonville, they made life very difficult for me. I didn't work there very long after that.

And in places where the SEIU has been able to organize, those people now make living wages. That was one of the things I loved about San Francisco--when there was a hotel workers strike, the mayor walked the line with them. And you know something? When you stayed in a hotel there, the workers didn't look like they were getting fucked over every day at work. They were actually pleasant.I don't think enough people understand how much we need unskilled labour. Can you imagine if every janitor walked off the job? What a freakin' disaster all our public buildings, our workplaces would be? Or what about the sales clerks at your local mall? It's not brain surgery, but the service industry is so huge because we NEED it. There is nothing shittier than going to a restaurant and getting lowsy service...going to the local supermarket and waiting for twenty minutes in a single checkout...getting shitty service sucks. But we don't give these people enough incentive and we take it for granted that they should kiss our asses for minimum wage.

Alberta is booming right now...they can't fill any positions, skilled or unskilled, fast enough. Fast food chains are offering employee scholorships...vacation bonuses...free cable payments (crazy, eh?). Wages have gone up to attract workers, because when you can make over $70,000 in the oil patch as a greenhorn, why the hell would you flip burgers and take abuse from ignorant customers all day?

A little respect goes a long way. Treat unskilled workers how you'd like to be treated as an unskilled worker...and bask in the fantastic service...it's not about paying them like doctors...it's about not shitting all over them and then expecting them to thank you for it.

And disgruntled workers are a force to contend with...

thefts go up,

morale goes down,

time spent on task goes down,

customers get annoyed with the bad service,

and eventually people hate you as much as they hate Canadian Tire.

I don't think enough people understand how much we need unskilled labour. Can you imagine if every janitor walked off the job? What a freakin' disaster all our public buildings, our workplaces would be? Or what about the sales clerks at your local mall? It's not brain surgery, but the service industry is so huge because we NEED it. There is nothing shittier than going to a restaurant and getting lowsy service...going to the local supermarket and waiting for twenty minutes in a single checkout...getting shitty service sucks. But we don't give these people enough incentive and we take it for granted that they should kiss our asses for minimum wage.

Alberta is booming right now...they can't fill any positions, skilled or unskilled, fast enough. Fast food chains are offering employee scholorships...vacation bonuses...free cable payments (crazy, eh?). Wages have gone up to attract workers, because when you can make over $70,000 in the oil patch as a greenhorn, why the hell would you flip burgers and take abuse from ignorant customers all day?

A little respect goes a long way. Treat unskilled workers how you'd like to be treated as an unskilled worker...and bask in the fantastic service...it's not about paying them like doctors...it's about not shitting all over them and then expecting them to thank you for it.
Where I live, we're losing unskilled labor because no one can afford to live down here on what unskilled labor makes. The median price for a single family home is around $350K. Condos in my neighborhood go for more than $800K, though those are the pricey ones--but even so, the median is around $200K. And rents are no better. People who are working as unskilled labor are usually working 2 and 3 jobs just to starve, so they're moving away. Places that never had to advertise for workers have signs up for months now. And those workers are always grumpy.

Alberta is booming right now...they can't fill any positions, skilled or unskilled, fast enough. Fast food chains are offering employee scholorships...vacation bonuses...free cable payments (crazy, eh?). Wages have gone up to attract workers, because when you can make over $70,000 in the oil patch as a greenhorn, why the hell would you flip burgers and take abuse from ignorant customers all day?



Actually I tried to get a job applied to subway, co-op, wal-mart, wendy's. None of them hired me because I have no prior work experience.:(

Indeed. He also believed in treating his customers with respect too. But both of those came to a quick end when he died.

Anyone else remember the signs that used to be over every cash register? They said that if a line ever had more than three people in it, they would open more registers to take up the slack. Old Sam wasn't even cold in his grave when they pulled down those signs and slashed their workforce to boost profits. Sam must be spinning in his grave.
Yeah, it's horseshit now. The Wal-Mart supercenter is full of people because it is midday Saturday and there are 8 lanes open - 4 of which are the self-serve lanes and 2 are 15 items or less. There are 30 some odd lanes.

When people asked why they weren't on the schedule, management told them that the computer let them go and it was out of their hands. There was no official termination notice or anything.

That is too much! I wish I could use that excuse when I have to fire people at my job. Life would so much easier if I could just say, "Sorry, Grand Master Computer says you don't work here anymore. Move along now." Awful, really.

Actually I tried to get a job applied to subway, co-op, wal-mart, wendy's. None of them hired me because I have no prior work experience.:(
In Alberta? I'm shocked.

Screw it...start an apprenticeship. They took my most useless cousin who has never worked a steady job in his life. Of course, he has to commute to Fort Mac...but he's living large...

Actually I tried to get a job applied to subway, co-op, wal-mart, wendy's. None of them hired me because I have no prior work experience.:(
They're waiting for the Mexicans to come up and do the work for cut-rate wages.

That's a huge problem around Atlanta. You don't see the teenage kids doing fast food work like they used to. It's mostly Hispanics and it's not easily determined if they're legal immigrants. They certainly aren't well versed in English. If you can't order with a number of fingers held up, you aren't going to get anything predictable.

Unions help stop the exploitation of illegal immigrants as well.

Unfortunately that usually means putting them out of a job.

But you'd think more US citizens would be in favour of that.

Have any of you that make these claims about Wal-marts actions ever worked there? Let me tell you something about it.

-I've worked there 1 year. I get paid about $10 an hour as a cashier. Way better than doing the same job at any other retail store. I don't need a union.

-I don't get told I can not take a bathroom break. I can go when I feel the need as long as I don't just walk off from a customer.

-I've seen unions try to form. Noone was fired. All they did was try to show the employees why a union was not needed (have most of the benefits already anyway).

-Wal-mart gets threats all the time from crazy, upset customers. This happening once does not mean it is a store policy. It was the order of the store manager who will probably be fired by the higher ups.

Unions help stop the exploitation of illegal immigrants as well.

Unfortunately that usually means putting them out of a job.

But you'd think more US citizens would be in favour of that.
I've worked in union shops, I've been a member of the Millwright's Union, and I've watched engineers organize. All in all, I think it's a raw deal for the members. You're stuck with the contract. You can't get bonuses or merit raises. In fact, I've been told to slow down by senior members because I made it look like everyone should be working harder. In other words, there's no room for someone that wants to stand out.

Have any of you that make these claims about Wal-marts actions ever worked there? Let me tell you something about it.

Aw, shucks. You're going to really upset the folks that have only read about Wal-Mart.

I've worked in union shops, I've been a member of the Millwright's Union, and I've watched engineers organize. All in all, I think it's a raw deal for the members. You're stuck with the contract. You can't get bonuses or merit raises. In fact, I've been told to slow down by senior members because I made it look like everyone should be working harder. In other words, there's no room for someone that wants to stand out.
Tradesunions are notoriously corrupt and inefficient. Hell, my teacher's union is turning into a real crock of shit. BUT I still believe in the unions. Why? Companies offer benefits, good wages, and so on just to avoid getting unionised. It's an incentive to make it worth our while not to bother.

I WOULD like to see unions revitilised. Many of the older, richer unions are just fat bloated maggots feeding on the putrifying flesh of their member's hopes. They don't have to be that way. A union used to mean real worker involvement...and you know, they still do, in places where unions still matter. I've been really inspired by some of the small cooperative unions in South America (Argentina specifically), and I'd like to see us do something similar...but Canadians in general don't like to make a fuss.

Have any of you that make these claims about Wal-marts actions ever worked there? Let me tell you something about it.

-I've worked there 1 year. I get paid about $10 an hour as a cashier. Way better than doing the same job at any other retail store. I don't need a union.

-I don't get told I can not take a bathroom break. I can go when I feel the need as long as I don't just walk off from a customer.

-I've seen unions try to form. Noone was fired. All they did was try to show the employees why a union was not needed (have most of the benefits already anyway).

-Wal-mart gets threats all the time from crazy, upset customers. This happening once does not mean it is a store policy. It was the order of the store manager who will probably be fired by the higher ups.
WalMart has got a lot of heat for certain practices...and cleaned up their act in many ways. That's a good thing. But they have also done, and continue to do, some pretty shitty things, and so the heat is still needed. They aren't the only company doing this...but they sure are a huge target...and it isn't just envy.

Tradesunions are notoriously corrupt and inefficient. Hell, my teacher's union is turning into a real crock of shit. BUT I still believe in the unions. Why? Companies offer benefits, good wages, and so on just to avoid getting unionised. It's an incentive to make it worth our while not to bother.

I WOULD like to see unions revitilised. Many of the older, richer unions are just fat bloated maggots feeding on the putrifying flesh of their member's hopes. They don't have to be that way. A union used to mean real worker involvement...and you know, they still do, in places where unions still matter. I've been really inspired by some of the small cooperative unions in South America (Argentina specifically), and I'd like to see us do something similar...but Canadians in general don't like to make a fuss.
I guess my ego gets the better of me when it comes to most things, work not excepted. I'm not in an hourly position anymore, and I refuse to believe that professionals should ever unionize. But, even when I was working as a millwright (apprentice), I liked to do good work. Unions, on the other hand, seem to reward mediocrity. Even in the 'professional' unions like Boeing engineers have organized, good work isn't rewarded. I know the company is better off when employees are encouraged to work hard and in almost every situation I've been in, the employee comes out ahead, too.

I guess my ego gets the better of me when it comes to most things, work not excepted. I'm not in an hourly position anymore, and I refuse to believe that professionals should ever unionize. But, even when I was working as a millwright (apprentice), I liked to do good work. Unions, on the other hand, seem to reward mediocrity. Even in the 'professional' unions like Boeing engineers have organized, good work isn't rewarded. I know the company is better off when employees are encouraged to work hard and in almost every situation I've been in, the employee comes out ahead, too.
Hey, it's not just unions that reward mediocrity...you go up the ladder in any organisation and that's how it seems...hold back or you make the fat leeches up there with you look bad.

Unions used to be a much more positive force when workers still took interest in the process, and involved themselves. Right now, it's a system very similar to our style of government...representation, but no real individual power. That should change.

WalMart has got a lot of heat for certain practices...and cleaned up their act in many ways. That's a good thing. But they have also done, and continue to do, some pretty shitty things, and so the heat is still needed. They aren't the only company doing this...but they sure are a huge target...and it isn't just envy.And they've done it because they had to in order to appeal to a wider range of customer. That's part of the reason they've moved into organic foods, for instance--they want a more upscale customer because there's only so much you can soak the poor for.

If Wal-Mart were to clean up their act, stop opposing unionization so fervently, and either quit sticking the states with the health care costs of their employees or work to get universal health care passed, I'd consider shopping there again.

Hey, it's not just unions that reward mediocrity...you go up the ladder in any organisation and that's how it seems...hold back or you make the fat leeches up there with you look bad.

Unions used to be a much more positive force when workers still took interest in the process, and involved themselves. Right now, it's a system very similar to our style of government...representation, but no real individual power. That should change.
I'm right there with those "fat leeches" and from what I see, there isn't any room for slackers in the management of technical people. It's twice as hard as herding cats, in fact. I have to motivate some really good engineers to think about costs in every facet of their work, all the while I want them to produce technically excellent solutions to problems. I don't think most non-managers appreciate the effort that good management puts into the employees. I _want_ happy engineers. Cash rewards are a good way to get them. I can't do that with union workers.

I don't know when unions ceased to operate in the nostalgic fashion that you seem to recall, but it hasn't been in my working life. And I'm old. I was apprenticing in the early 70's.

Anyhow, I think this has about played out. It's always enjoyable to trade ideas with you. Just don't be so quick to run to the Moderators every time I upset you by stirring things up a bit.

And they've done it because they had to in order to appeal to a wider range of customer. That's part of the reason they've moved into organic foods, for instance--they want a more upscale customer because there's only so much you can soak the poor for.

If Wal-Mart were to clean up their act, stop opposing unionization so fervently, and either quit sticking the states with the health care costs of their employees or work to get universal health care passed, I'd consider shopping there again.
That's what makes business great, though. There are a lot of folks that don't give a fig about how Wal-Mart treats anything but prices. But that's my beef with them. When Wal-Mart starts selling something that isn't junk, then I'll start shopping there again.

WalMart hates unions...but Quebec managed to get two of their stores unionised...

unfortunately

The first one in Jonquiere closed 6 month after because Walmart was'nt happy with the negociation.

They are negociating for the convention in Ste-Hyacinthe rigth now, but Walmart keep trying to legaly cancel the union. I suspect they will also shut this store if it dont turn out good for them

I see a lawsuit.You must be USian (made in the USA)

The first one in Jonquiere closed 6 month after... Walmart will probably close the second one too..

the score on this one (Walmart VS Quebec Unions).. is shaping like a 2-0

Anyhow, I think this has about played out. It's always enjoyable to trade ideas with you. Just don't be so quick to run to the Moderators every time I upset you by stirring things up a bit.?? Do I know you under a different name? I certainly haven't reported you under this particular puppet...anyone know who Les Drapeaux Brulants' master nation is? (and I wouldn't mind discussing unions in more depth with you at a later date...it isn't nostalgia, I have some specific examples in mind)

Managers at a Wal-Mart recieved a bomb threat, but instead of evacuating and letting the bomb squad search the building, they forced their employees to search for the potentially deadly explosive. No bomb was found.

It's nice to know Wal-Mart cares enough about it's customer's safety to force it's untrained employees to do explosive ordinance disposal jobs.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060711.wwalmart0711/BNStory/National/home
When my mom worked at the bord of trade in chicago she had to check for bomb threats, and she was a secretary. Nothing new here really.

?? Do I know you under a different name? I certainly haven't reported you under this particular puppet...anyone know who Les Drapeaux Brulants' master nation is? (and I wouldn't mind discussing unions in more depth with you at a later date...it isn't nostalgia, I have some specific examples in mind)
Yes, but I'm not that memorable. I irritated (http://www.forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11266814&postcount=2)you one day; you ratted me out; I was banned, then nuked. When I cooled off, I decided a new 'nom de guerre' was in order -- I don't really do puppets because the imminent Alzheimer's keeps me from remembering who they all are.

I do approve of the word kerfuffle, though. One would almost think we read the same newletters.

I'm not sure what kind of discussion on the benefits of unions could avoid relying entirely on anecdotes and empirical examples. If I've got some time at lunch, I'll see if I can post a good thesis that isn't narrowly regarded as trolling. (Which doesn't seem to be prohibited in the Nationstates T&C's, by the way)

I disagree with you. There is no reason why a civilian should ever be searching for a bomb. No amount of product or retail space is worth a human life.

What an uncapitalizt thing to say.

Employees looking for the bomb? So what the hell are they going do with it if they find one? Considering how fancy and nasty bombs are these days, it's a silly idea.

That's unless Walmart employees are all trained bomb defusers or something ...

Welcome to reality. We aren't all superman. We can do our best, but there's a reason that cops go through a great deal of training. Things like defusing dangerous situations, covert ops, and training to insure that innocents are not harmed are there for a reason. An untrained, unprepared bystander is not necessarily going to make things better. I'm not saying do nothing, but I am saying that caution is important in dangerous situations. He who goes charging in uncarefully is endangering everyone.

What if stepping in had caused the man to draw a gun, kill his victim and then kill others? What if a police officer was capable of preventing that from happening? A regular person is not special, no matter what they tell themselves, and a good samaritin can cause great harm if they act without care and caution.

Welcome to the real world. Bad things happen to good people, and good people can incidently do great harm. Caution and training can save lives. That's why we train people.


Not all bystanders are untrained. And most police officers are not trained in explosive ordnance removal or bomb recognition.

In the US at least, the police are not always your top drawer experts in firearms use, bomb work, or even negotiation. Even the so-called "bomb expert" in a particular locality may have very little actual experience with bombs outside of a classroom situation.

I think a lot of people place too much emphasis on "let the trained people do it". That sort of thinking will tell you that only NBA players should play basketball, and only concert pianists should play the piano.

What I believe is objectionable about this Walmart episode is that they forced people to look. Volunteers often look during the initial stages of a bomb threat, because an explosive is usually disguised as something that belongs in that location - only employees or management would know what was out of place in their store. They are usually instructed to "look, but don't touch". It's the job of the bomb squad to then dispose of the out of place item.

It'd be funny if they found a bomb and it turned out to be one of their regular products.

People like you are how unarmed people can rob banks.
<snipped> :)
Why the fuck should the teller who makes some measly hourly wage risk his/her life for the bank's money? You never really know if the guy is armed or unarmed, and the bank would prefer you don't press the issue and find out. Dead customers cost more in terms of lawsuits than any bank robber is likely to walk out with.

I wonder what exactly the managers expected the employee's to do if they found the bomb....
Call the bomb squad, perhaps?

Why the fuck should the teller who makes some measly hourly wage risk his/her life for the bank's money? You never really know if the guy is armed or unarmed, and the bank would prefer you don't press the issue and find out. Dead customers cost more in terms of lawsuits than any bank robber is likely to walk out with.Especially since the money is usually federally insured...

Especially since the money is usually federally insured...
Yep. That FDIC thing next to the bank's name means Federal Deposit Insurance Company. The government will replace money stolen up to $100,000 per each account.

Yep. That FDIC thing next to the bank's name means Federal Deposit Insurance Company. The government will replace money stolen up to $100,000 per each account.

Which is also why bank robbery is a Federal crime, and will be investigated by the FBI.

2.) When I'm in Columbus at school, I don't even know where the nearest Wal-Mart is. The Lennox supercenter, where they have a Target, is the nearest large shopping thing available, and there is no Wal-Mart there.

There's a Wal-Mart at Tuttle, one near Easton, and I think there's one on the East Side, too. Mind you, I boycott them, but there are Wal-Marts in Columbus.

I loved that little strip mall on Olentangy; you could do pretty much everything at Lennox.

-I've worked there 1 year. I get paid about $10 an hour as a cashier. Way better than doing the same job at any other retail store. I don't need a union.


Yeah, but the average employee of a Costco store makes $17.

Hmm, now here's an intresting question. Let's say you're the Wal-Mart employee who found the bomb, no one else knows you found it, what do you do?

Me, I would hold the store hostage and demand lotsa money! :D
I'd walk up and hand it to management. Then run like hell.



and here is why bush likes walmart, they give him lots of money

Hate this Freaking Adminstration!:headbang:

Yeah, but the average employee of a Costco store makes $17.
Then he can quit and go beg to work at Costco. Retail doesn't need a union because it's fucking retail. If the businesses are pulling shit, take it up with the BBB.

Managers at a Wal-Mart recieved a bomb threat, but instead of evacuating and letting the bomb squad search the building, they forced their employees to search for the potentially deadly explosive. No bomb was found.

It's nice to know Wal-Mart cares enough about it's customer's safety to force it's untrained employees to do explosive ordinance disposal jobs.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060711.wwalmart0711/BNStory/National/home

Most companies (all of the ones I've worked for have) have trained members of staff that can take charge in an evacuation process. They have to evacuate in the case of fire or bomb threat and then try to identify any suspicious looking packages. They're not to touch it or move, just try and locate it.

Then he can quit and go beg to work at Costco. Retail doesn't need a union because it's fucking retail.

Elitist much?

Updates:

link in french.
http://www.cyberpresse.ca/article/20060713/CPACTUALITES/607130652&SearchID=73250549635884

-There was a second bomb threat yesterday in the same Wal-Mart. The employees were not forced to search for the bomb.

- Wal Mart is saying the police forced the employees to search for the first bomb. (what a load of shit. Pass the buck, will ya?)

- The first incident is being investigated by the Commission de la santé et de la sécurité du travail (agency looking into health and security in the workplace).

- Having worked for Zellers for five years, I can say that standard operating procedure is to
1. Call the police.
2. Evacuate the customers.
3. Wait for the police.
4. Don't look for the bomb by yourself. Do a concerted search when the police arrive.
5. Report any suspect package. Don't touch it.
6. If you are scared, stay out of it. You're not helping anyone.

so Wal-mart can use employees to search as they are the ones who know the store best. Forcing them is another matter, however.