NationStates Jolt Archive

An interesting counterpoint to all the "sanctuary" laws that have prevented police from doing their jobs. The pendelum is swinging in the other direction now.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060711/ap_on_re_us/colorado_immigration

Colo. OKs toughest U.S. immigration bills

By STEVEN K. PAULSON and JON SARCHE, Associated Press Writers 2 hours, 47 minutes ago

DENVER - Colorado lawmakers ended a five-day special session on illegal immigration with a resounding approval of several bills that Democrats call the toughest in the nation and Republicans say don't go far enough.

The legislation sent late Monday to Republican Gov. Bill Owens would force a million people receiving state or federal aid in Colorado to verify their citizenship.

It would deny most non-emergency state benefits to illegal immigrants 18 years old and older — forcing people to prove legal residency when applying for benefits or renewing their eligibility. The state Senate passed it 22-13 and the House voted 48-15 in favor. Both chambers are controlled by Democrats.

Nice to know that not everyone thinks illegal immigrants should get a free pass on everything.

What are "non-emergency" state benefits that Coloradians get? I want to know.

It's a thorny issue beset on all sides by legitimate concerns, tradition, necessities and over-amped media coverage.

I believe Colorado has passed as reasonable, non-reactionary and compassionate a law as could be hammered out, given the circumstances. It won't please everyone, which is usually a sign that you've done the right thing in politics.

What are "non-emergency" state benefits that Coloradians get? I want to know.
Well, I'd imagine emergency healthcare, food and little else. Enough to keep illegals alive while they realize that the word "illegal" is starting to mean something.

Well, I'd imagine emergency healthcare, food and little else. Enough to keep illegals alive while they realize that the word "illegal" is starting to mean something.
That doesn't even remotely answer the question.

of course, people without papers largely avoid getting government services anyways. and this causes all sorts of problems (in terms of health and safety issues, crime, etc), so even from a pragmatic standpoint this is a stupid move in the wrong direction. unless you like having populations afraid to go to the police when violent crime takes over the streets. or having companies get away with massive safety violations because their workers won't come forward to expose them. or having unmonitored and untreated vectors for disease.

migrants don't come here for the government services, they come here to seek a better life for themselves and their families and to earn money to send home.

That doesn't even remotely answer the question.
Gee-golly, pal, sorry I'm not a clearing-house for Colorado state law information. I was guessing that basic human services would include food and medical attention. If you're so hot for the details, aren't you on the Internet?

If I had cared to be accurate, I'd have looked it up myself.

Gee-golly, pal, sorry I'm not a clearing-house for Colorado state law information. I was guessing that basic human services would include food and medical attention. If you're so hot for the details, aren't you on the Internet?

If I had cared to be accurate, I'd have looked it up myself.
Maybe I was hoping for some one that fucking knew something to answer?

of course, people without papers largely avoid getting government services anyways. and this causes all sorts of problems (in terms of health and safety issues, crime, etc), so even from a pragmatic standpoint this is a stupid move in the wrong direction. unless you like having populations afraid to go to the police when violent crime takes over the streets. or having companies get away with massive safety violations because their workers won't come forward to expose them. or having unmonitored and untreated vectors for disease.

migrants don't come here for the government services, they come here to seek a better life for themselves and their families and to earn money to send home.
While I agree with you, the term "illegal" still applies. A line must be drawn somewhere.

Maybe I was hoping for some one that fucking knew something to answer?
Look, flamehead, I was offering a guess. Got that? A guess. Did I post that I was a Colorado legislator? No. I don't know who pissed in your Wheaties, but it wasn't me, so back off.

Look, flamehead, I was offering a guess. Got that? A guess. Did I post that I was a Colorado legislator? No. I don't know who pissed in your Wheaties, but it wasn't me, so back off.
If you don't know shit, don't haphazard a guess.

While I agree with you, the term "illegal" still applies. A line must be drawn somewhere.

i think there are more than enough imaginary lines already

If you don't know shit, don't haphazard a guess.
Wow. We're not allowed to guess in an online forum anymore, says King Pantless. Shit, that'll shut down half the Internet.

Guessing is part of the discussion. It helps expose what people actually might think is happening, and that can be compared to the facts. Such comparisons lead to learning and the debunking of potentially deleterious myths.

If you're relying on posts in NSG for your information, I'm dreadfully sorry for you.

Again, if you're pissed at something, go take it out somewhere else.

If you don't know shit, don't haphazard a guess.
If you don't want people who have no idea what the fuck they're talking about providing you with information they're making up as they go along, what are you doing on the Internet?
You and your "facts" can just go to a Library.

i think there are more than enough imaginary lines already
A valid point. What's your thoughts on the issue?

Let's also ignore the fact you didn't even address the reality of the question.
It wasn't "what emergency benefits would Colorado provide to immigrants"; it was what "non-emergency" state benefits does Colorado provide. That means, what non-federal, "socialist" policies are existant in Colorado. No fucking shit they would provide emergency healthcare healthcare in the form of emergency rooms like everywhere else. Maybe the lunch programs. I can guess that kind of shit. I want to know what policies Colorado has that are non-emergency. Maybe before going fucking nuts about not even answering my fucking question right, you can read the damn thing.

I live in Colorado Springs, so I'm glad that the legislators my fellow Coloradoans elected are finally getting off their rears and doing something about illegal immigration. It's become a huge problem here, especially in the southern part of the state.

As for what benefits these illegals will get, according to Myung Oak Kim and Rosa Ramirez of the Rocky Mountain News (6-30-06), they were receiving (before the new laws were passed):


K-12 public education
Free and reduced-price school lunches and breakfasts
Women, Infants, and Children nutrition programs
Outpatient medical care
Prenatal care
Emergency medical care
Labor and delivery care in hospitals
Immunizations
Business licenses
Workers' compensation
Public defenders
Public garbage pickup
Police and fire services
Public park use


and they were not receiving these services:


Student loans for higher education
In-state college tuition
Medicaid
Welfare
Food stamps
Public housing
Low-income energy assistance
Voting
Gun permits
Social Security
Public library cards
Driver's licenses


The new laws don't put much of a dent in this list: illegal immigrant medical care would be restricted to public and nonprofit clinics that receive state money, and illegals would no longer be able to obtain business licenses or immunizations. Everything else remains mostly the same, with a few minor changes made to eligibility for some other services.

Although I think both major political parties are ineffectual, I'm with the Republicans on this one: this bill, known as Initiative 55, doesn't go far enough. While I'm glad we're finally doing something about this, I wish Colorado taxpayers weren't paying $24,000 a day for this special session of the legislature.

An interesting side note: Initiative 55 was going to be a ballot issue come November, but due to an absurdly far-fetched and stretched interpretation of a little-enforced rule, the liberal activist judges on the Colorado Supreme Court decided that it would be better to let the legislature sort it out.

Governor Owens wanted to get this done before he leaves office in January, but the legislature normally wouldn't have convened again until next spring. The Gov. made the right decision in calling the special session (even though we Coloradoans are paying through the nose for it).

Let's also ignore the fact you didn't even address the reality of the question.
It wasn't "what emergency benefits would Colorado provide to immigrants"; it was what "non-emergency" state benefits does Colorado provide. That means, what non-federal, "socialist" policies are existant in Colorado. No fucking shit they would provide emergency healthcare healthcare in the form of emergency rooms like everywhere else. Maybe the lunch programs. I can guess that kind of shit. I want to know what policies Colorado has that are non-emergency. Maybe before going fucking nuts about not even answering my fucking question right, you can read the damn thing.
I'm going nuts? I'm sorry you woke up grumpy, son, I really am. Have some coffee or something.

*snip the info and thanks for it, Pantless can relax*

Although I think both major political parties are ineffectual, I'm with the Republicans on this one: this bill, known as Initiative 55, doesn't go far enough. While I'm glad we're finally doing something about this, I wish Colorado taxpayers weren't paying $24,000 a day for this special session of the legislature.
$24K a DAY?!? How many days so far?

And what might have been the rationale behind dropping business licenses? Hard to open your lunch truck or yard service or what-have-you without a license...and licenses add revenue, don't they?

The special session started Wednesday, July 5. Seeing as this is the sixth day of the session (they put in a full day Saturday), illegal immigrants have cost Colorado taxpayers another $144,000 so far--but, to be fair, the special session wasn't only about illegal immigration; there are other issues being addressed.

As for Initiative 55, I don't know how or why they came up with the restrictions that they did. I can see why they are limiting health care and immunizations, but the business license part doesn't make much sense to me, either.

Then again, I'm not in the state legislature--there must be SOME reason :confused:

An interesting counterpoint to all the "sanctuary" laws that have prevented police from doing their jobs. The pendelum is swinging in the other direction now.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060711/ap_on_re_us/colorado_immigration

Colo. OKs toughest U.S. immigration bills

By STEVEN K. PAULSON and JON SARCHE, Associated Press Writers 2 hours, 47 minutes ago

DENVER - Colorado lawmakers ended a five-day special session on illegal immigration with a resounding approval of several bills that Democrats call the toughest in the nation and Republicans say don't go far enough.

The legislation sent late Monday to Republican Gov. Bill Owens would force a million people receiving state or federal aid in Colorado to verify their citizenship.

It would deny most non-emergency state benefits to illegal immigrants 18 years old and older — forcing people to prove legal residency when applying for benefits or renewing their eligibility. The state Senate passed it 22-13 and the House voted 48-15 in favor. Both chambers are controlled by Democrats.

'bout time. Maybe I'll vote Democrat this go around.

I wouldn't vote Democrat, at least not on the sole basis of this issue. The only reason this passed was because a few Democrats jumped ship because they want to pad their voting records for re-election. The majority of Democrats--at least in the State Senate, less so in the State House--voted against this.

I wouldn't vote Democrat, at least not on the sole basis of this issue. The only reason this passed was because a few Democrats jumped ship because they want to pad their voting records for re-election. The majority of Democrats--at least in the State Senate, less so in the State House--voted against this.

Still, that's quite a feat if your talking about Dems having both houses. And isn't their governor a Dem too?

illegals would no longer be able to obtain ... immunizations
Are the legislators of Colorado stupid as fuck or just disconnected from the real world like every other career politician? If they are going to keep going to public school, you better fund their god damn immunizations.

Are the legislators of Colorado stupid as fuck or just disconnected from the real world like every other career politician? If they are going to keep going to public school, you better fund their god damn immunizations.

as i said, this is just a dumb move from even a pragmatic stance. hooray for pandering to the know-nothing base.

as i said, this is just a dumb move from even a pragmatic stance. hooray for pandering to the know-nothing base.
Capitalizing on immigration fear-mongering in order to pass completely fucking ridiculous legislation that does nothing but hurt the state and the taxpayer then get praised for it because the average voter is a fucking dipshit.

I wouldn't vote Democrat, at least not on the sole basis of this issue. The only reason this passed was because a few Democrats jumped ship because they want to pad their voting records for re-election. The majority of Democrats--at least in the State Senate, less so in the State House--voted against this.

Maybe if you actually read the article, the majority voted FOR it. There were only 4 who voted against it.

Capitalizing on immigration fear-mongering in order to pass completely fucking ridiculous legislation that does nothing but hurt the state and the taxpayer then get praised for it because the average voter is a fucking dipshit.

That's nice. You have any facts to back that up? Does this measure attack legal immigrants? I always find it funny that you leave out the word "illegal" in your rants.

That's nice. You have any facts to back that up? Does this measure attack legal immigrants?
Half the people who are praising couldn't, or don't care enough, to differentiate between a legal and illegal immigrant. Especially for the kind of fear-mongering this is capitalizing on.

I always find it funny that you leave out the word "illegal" in your rants.
Don't make me get a torch for all the strawmen being animated to assault me like some horrible parody zombie movie.

Ok then smartass. You tell me how it is helpful to force the children to keep going to public school (I won't tell you to pretend they are yours because I doubt you could reach that level of empathy) while not subsidizing immunizations? I hate to tell you but mumps, measels, and all that shit hasn't been whiped out.

Half the people who are praising couldn't, or don't care enough, to differentiate between a legal and illegal immigrant. Especially for the kind of fear-mongering this is capitalizing on.

So your arguement is based on unsupported personal attacks and not facts. Gotcha.


Don't make me get a torch for all the strawmen being animated to assault me like some horrible parody zombie movie.

Like your constant stream of "immigrant bashing" meme's.

Ok then smartass. You tell me how it is helpful to force the children to keep going to public school (I won't tell you to pretend they are yours because I doubt you could reach that level of empathy) while not subsidizing immunizations? I hate to tell you but mumps, measels, and all that shit hasn't been whiped out.

So the answer to my question is that you don't have anything to back up your assertions so you're going to resort to more personal attacks.

Now you get to show me a school that allows children w/o immunizations to attend.

So your arguement is based on unsupported personal attacks and not facts.Like your constant stream of "immigrant bashing" meme's.
Gotcha.


So the answer to my question is that you don't have anything to back up your assertions so you're going to resort to more personal attacks.
If the boot fits, stop fishing for more.

Now you get to show me a school that allows children w/o immunizations to attend.
Now you get to show me where the Colorado law says they can't go to public school.

Ok then smartass. You tell me how it is helpful to force the children to keep going to public school (I won't tell you to pretend they are yours because I doubt you could reach that level of empathy) while not subsidizing immunizations? I hate to tell you but mumps, measels, and all that shit hasn't been whiped out.

Parents can't send their children to school without immunizations. So, in order to get the immunizations and send their children to school they have to become legal immigrants. Otherwise, no immunizations and no schooling. It works out quite well, actually.

Parents can't send their children to school without immunizations. So, in order to get the immunizations and send their children to school they have to become legal immigrants. Otherwise, no immunizations and no schooling. It works out quite well, actually.
We will see how they play it when the enforcement of stuff comes.

Now you get to show me where the Colorado law says they can't go to public school.

Here you go (http://www.cdphe.state.co.us/dc/Immunization/Forms/CARD-certofimm.pdf)

Main page (http://www.cdphe.state.co.us/dc/Immunization/index.html)

Here you go (http://www.cdphe.state.co.us/dc/Immunization/Forms/CARD-certofimm.pdf)

Main page (http://www.cdphe.state.co.us/dc/Immunization/index.html)
I mean the updated immigration laws. Nice try though. Though I will give you I should have been more specific.

Gotcha.

So you deny saying this...?

It wasn't "what emergency benefits would Colorado provide to immigrants";

Capitalizing on immigration fear-mongering



If the boot fits, stop fishing for more.

Now show me what claims I've made that have been unsupported.


Now you get to show me where the Colorado law says they can't go to public school.

Now you're changing your tune. You said forced to, now you're saying can't. You obviously don't have kids nor have ever dealt w/ a public school system. See Vetalia's post even though you've now modified your statement.

I mean the updated immigration laws. Nice try though. Though I will give you I should have been more specific.

The updated laws probably aren't in the register yet.


(However, it has nothing to do with immigrations laws. Public schools simply don't allow children to attend if they don't have vaccinations; those laws existed prior to and after the immigration law was passed. It has nothing to do with your legal status; you could be a middle-class WASP kid from Massachussetts whose ancestors came over on the Mayflower and you'd still be denied admittance to public school because you lack vaccinations.)

It has nothing to do with immigrations laws. Public schools simply don't allow children to attend if they don't have vaccinations; those laws existed prior to and after the immigration law was passed.
I'm highly aware of that fact. I'm just interested what will hit the fan when enforcement comes up because there is no provision saying childre of/or illegal immigrants were not eligible for public schooling.

It won't please everyone, which is usually a sign that you've done the right thing in politics.
And THAT'S the smartest thing anyone's ever said on this site.

Except banning gay marriage doesn't please everyone. Do you hate gays?

...how it is helpful to force the children to keep going to public school (I won't tell you to pretend they are yours because I doubt you could reach that level of empathy) while not subsidizing immunizations? I hate to tell you but mumps, measels, and all that shit hasn't been whiped out.
Erm, I believe the article quoted in the OP says that the bill "would deny most non-emergency state benefits to illegal immigrants 18 years old and older". So the kids in public school still get their immunizations. Or did I read that completely incorrectly?

Are the legislators of Colorado stupid as fuck or just disconnected from the real world like every other career politician? If they are going to keep going to public school, you better fund their god damn immunizations.
Agreed, in spades.

Erm, I believe the article quoted in the OP says that the bill "would deny most non-emergency state benefits to illegal immigrants 18 years old and older". So the kids in public school still get their immunizations. Or did I read that completely incorrectly?
Oh, you're right. Nevermind then. Idiots over 18 never get immunizations for anything anyway. One class or other in my college keep getting meningitis outbreaks every year or other.

The fucking Republicans want to strip all that from minors. Figures.

A Colorado Congressman using hyperbolized bullshit in 3.. 2.. 1..
"Illegal immigrants are destroying the city," Hazleton's Republican Mayor Lou Barletta said then. "I don't want them here, period."
Horseshit. I'd bet my ass that the only people completing contruction projects on time are the illegal immigrants. They are literally building your city you disconnected pea brain.
After giving his opinion, Mayor Barletta drove his BMW 7 series home to his 10 acre ranch and mansion house in the middle of Hampton Hills.

Erm, I believe the article quoted in the OP says that the bill "would deny most non-emergency state benefits to illegal immigrants 18 years old and older". So the kids in public school still get their immunizations. Or did I read that completely incorrectly?
Good point. Nice catch.

And THAT'S the smartest thing anyone's ever said on this site.

Except banning gay marriage doesn't please everyone. Do you hate gays?
Thanks, and that second sentence is why the word "usually" is in the post you quoted.

Gay marriage actually fits perfectly into that political assumption because NO legislation on the issue will EVER please everyone.

Oh, you're right. Nevermind then. Idiots over 18 never get immunizations for anything anyway. One class or other in my college keep getting meningitis outbreaks every year or other.

The fucking Republicans want to strip all that from minors. Figures.

Ah, now the attacks on the Repubs. I guess your former arguement of

while not subsidizing immunizations?

was just BS then?



A Colorado Congressman using hyperbolized bullshit in 3.. 2.. 1..

Like your previous statement? Like you repeatedly not using the word "illegal"

Horseshit. I'd bet my ass that the only people completing contruction projects on time are the illegal immigrants. They are literally building your city you disconnected pea brain.
After giving his opinion, Mayor Barletta drove his BMW 7 series home to his 10 acre ranch and mansion house in the middle of Hampton Hills.

More "hyperbolized bullshit" or just more unsubstantiated rantings?

Where is the evidence that immigrants without papers from mexico hurt the US economy?

Where is the evidence that immigrants without papers from mexico hurt the US economy?
In the lack of an illegal immigrant lobby.

An interesting counterpoint to all the "sanctuary" laws that have prevented police from doing their jobs. The pendelum is swinging in the other direction now.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060711/ap_on_re_us/colorado_immigration

Colo. OKs toughest U.S. immigration bills

By STEVEN K. PAULSON and JON SARCHE, Associated Press Writers 2 hours, 47 minutes ago

DENVER - Colorado lawmakers ended a five-day special session on illegal immigration with a resounding approval of several bills that Democrats call the toughest in the nation and Republicans say don't go far enough.

The legislation sent late Monday to Republican Gov. Bill Owens would force a million people receiving state or federal aid in Colorado to verify their citizenship.

It would deny most non-emergency state benefits to illegal immigrants 18 years old and older — forcing people to prove legal residency when applying for benefits or renewing their eligibility. The state Senate passed it 22-13 and the House voted 48-15 in favor. Both chambers are controlled by Democrats.
I've been reading about this in the Denver Post while on break at work for ages. I still don't know what side of the argument I'm on, but I'll tell you this much: it certainly won't look good to a lot of people.