NationStates Jolt Archive

In the old days, women would be expected to wait for the guy to propose to her, after spending a few thousand of dollars on a diamond ring. Ever since the women for equality movement, this haven't changed much. Sure here and there women are proposing to their guys, but they're still a small small small minority. I would like to see an increase in this number! I say women should start going out and buying their guys a ring that cost a few thousand, and proposing to him! It sure as hell would take the pressure off us guys! What do yall think? I wouldn't mind if Liz proposed to me.

I keep telling my fiancee that its only fair that since she got the nice $5,000 ring that I should at least get a PlayStation3 out of the deal but she won't hear of it.

I pointed out that a PS3 is cheaper and I'd even take a lightsaber but...

Women, whatta gonna do? :D

I keep telling my fiancee that its only fair that since she got the nice $5,000 ring that I should at least get a PlayStation3 out of the deal but she won't hear of it.

I pointed out that a PS3 is cheaper and I'd even take a lightsaber but...

Women, whatta gonna do? :D

I dunno myself, any guy who said he figured out women is a liar.

Hm.. in the old days for some, there was no proposal. It was a contract arranged by the parents, as in the case of my grandparents.

Hm.. in the old days for some, there was no proposal. It was a contract arranged by the parents, as in the case of my grandparents.

Yea, but now women and men are equal, or as close as we're ever going to get, so comon women, start buying those expensive rings and get down on your knees! :D *And get that thought out of your head!*

Yea, but now women and men are equal, or as close as we're ever going to get, so comon women, start buying those expensive rings and get down on your knees! :D *And get that thought out of your head!*

Well, I never said the old way was unfair to women.. in fact, the situation I mentioned was a mutual agreement between my grandparents' parents.. my grandfather had no say in it and was forced to leave his girlfriend in fact.. But between the two, they owned a nice chunk of land, which was the idea. :p

Call me an old fashioned romantic but the idea of a very corny proposal and a nice shiny ring by a guy sounds great.... mind you if he couldn't get his act together I would consider proposing myself but that's no fun....
seriously isn't it a man's job to propose ? ;)

I got proposed to. I sold a GSXR 750 to buy the ring after I accepted her proposal.

She's my ex wife now and what's worse the bike I sold for the ring was a better ride.

So far Im against women proposing but I might change my mind later.

If a guy wants to buy a girl a thousand dollar ring then that's his fool idea... I'm not that thick and judging from their behavior, most other women aren't either.

I'm all for gender-disregardant proposing though.

The biggest problem would probably be the large number of "No's" The women would get. My wife wanted me to propose after we had only been dating 4 monrhs. I wanted to wait at least a year. We did. It was for the best.

I dont think there's anything wrong with women proposing, but I think I'd probably drop hints until he asked me!

In the old days, women would be expected to wait for the guy to propose to her, after spending a few thousand of dollars on a diamond ring. Ever since the women for equality movement, this haven't changed much. Sure here and there women are proposing to their guys, but they're still a small small small minority. I would like to see an increase in this number! I say women should start going out and buying their guys a ring that cost a few thousand, and proposing to him! It sure as hell would take the pressure off us guys! What do yall think? I wouldn't mind if Liz proposed to me.In the old days, female children was bartered off much like lifestock.

I'll never understand this obsession with marriage. It seems a despicable practice, with the main purpose of disenfrachising people. Why not simply engage in civil unions?

Yes, woman proposing to men is sometimes better. Men often dont propose because of fear that they may be wrongly understood. It will level the playing field.

The biggest problem would probably be the large number of "No's" The women would get. My wife wanted me to propose after we had only been dating 4 monrhs. I wanted to wait at least a year. We did. It was for the best.
True. I believe that women want to marry sooner than men (generalisation, of course). I bet most men get more than enough hints from their girlfriends before they propose. We've been together 5 years, lived together over 3 years and still haven't planned to get married.

I'm looking for a girl with huge tracts of land.

Bring back dowries:)


Is it unromantic to suggest handing her the bill after (if) she says yes?

True. I believe that women want to marry sooner than men (generalisation, of course). I bet most men get more than enough hints from their girlfriends before they propose. We've been together 5 years, lived together over 3 years and still haven't planned to get married.

As an old school old fart (male/age 55/married 33 years) it has been my experience that women who say yes to any form of co-habitation/sexual congress other than marriage are less likely to receive an early marriage proposal. Men are hunters by nature and once the "kill" has been made, they may stick around a while to eat the kill but they are always looking to the next hunt. Girls, my advice is to learn how to say, "NO!" and mean it. Then teach your man how to plow and if you make it worth his while to do so the hunt will lose its pull on him.

As an old school old fart (male/age 55/married 33 years) it has been my experience that women who say yes to any form of co-habitation/sexual congress other than marriage are less likely to receive an early marriage proposal. Men are hunters by nature and once the "kill" has been made, they may stick around a while to eat the kill but they are always looking to the next hunt. Girls, my advice is to learn how to say, "NO!" and mean it. Then teach your man how to plow and if you make it worth his while to do so the hunt will lose its pull on him.


Old Guard spoilsport. *thwacks*

..hunt to kill?.. wtf.. do I LOOK like a peice of meat?

although throw me over ya shoulder and take me to the bedroom and then you might be onto something...

ha!

..hunt to kill?.. wtf.. do I LOOK like a peice of meat?

although throw me over ya shoulder and take me to the bedroom and then you might be onto something...

ha!

Do you look like a field to be plowed?

That guy has some serious issues...

Do you look like a field to be plowed?

That guy has some serious issues...

.. i dont now about plowing... but if it's treat properly it's full of rewards

.. i dont now about plowing... but if it's treat properly it's full of rewards


All those plowshares - won't enhance anyones look - or life expectancy.

All those plowshares - won't enhance anyones look - or life expectancy.

this is true

i was proposed to once

she said

"Claire, I love you, if you were a man, I'd marry you. Oh sod it, Marry me anyway?"

so it's ok for women to propose

this is true

i was proposed to once

she said

"Claire, I love you, if you were a man, I'd marry you. Oh sod it, Marry me anyway?"

so it's ok for women to propose


You mean, for women to propose to women?

You mean, for women to propose to women?

just in general

we were VERY drunk.. tequilla will do that to you

just in general

we were VERY drunk.. tequilla will do that to you


Wine is such a mocker -
but I don't see -
why us guys could not get
proposed by the gals

Wine is such a mocker -
but I don't see -
why us guys could not get
proposed by the gals

I dont see why you cant either

nothing wrong with it

would we have to buy you a ring?

I dont see why you cant either

nothing wrong with it

would we have to buy you a ring?


2 persons marry

2 persons need a ring

2 persons eacht went to shop

2 persons marry

2 persons need a ring

2 persons eacht went to shop

true

but when a man proposes to a woman, generally and traditionally, he buys her an engagement ring

would we not have to buy a man one if we proposed?

.. *daydreams about big shiny diamond & platimun things*

true

but when a man proposes to a woman, generally and traditionally, he buys her an engagement ring

would we not have to buy a man one if we proposed?

.. *daydreams about big shiny diamond & platimun things*


I think that marriage rings and engagement rings should not be... confused nor mixed.

I think that marriage rings and engagement rings should not be... confused nor mixed.

fair enough

For me is a quite strange thread, maybe 'cause we don't make such a film to get married and so. I mean, it's not normal to follow all this steps, the ring, the proposal, and so. It's more ...... normal, we can discuss clearly together before deciding to marry. So for me it's a little bit of theater, but anyway I don't see why women cannot propose to men. It was a men job, as someone said, but to be a soldier also. we're in the fucking XXI century, let's finally notice.

fair enough


:fluffle:
YaY

I find it odd how in some cases women want to be equal but in others they want the traditional sort of thing. Make up your mind! i'v got absolutly no problems with equality, hell I told my girlfriend that I'll stay home with the kids since she'll have a better job than me but it should be all or nothing imo :)

:fluffle:
YaY

:fluffle:
yay-ness

In the old days, women would be expected to wait for the guy to propose to her, after spending a few thousand of dollars on a diamond ring. Ever since the women for equality movement, this haven't changed much. Sure here and there women are proposing to their guys, but they're still a small small small minority. I would like to see an increase in this number! I say women should start going out and buying their guys a ring that cost a few thousand, and proposing to him! It sure as hell would take the pressure off us guys! What do yall think? I wouldn't mind if Liz proposed to me.
I'm a bit squigged out by the idea of ANYBODY proposing marriage, at least in the traditional sense. To me, getting married is a big decision that should be discussed at length before anybody proposes it or agrees to it, and that pretty much means that the "proposal" part will be accomplished mutually. I mean, maybe one person will be the one to actually say the words, "So would you like to get married?" But after discussing it for an hour or two, it's not like they're going to be in the dark about how their partner really feels, so it's not like there's going to be that huge suspense about the answer.

I find it odd how in some cases women want to be equal but in others they want the traditional sort of thing. Make up your mind! i'v got absolutly no problems with equality, hell I told my girlfriend that I'll stay home with the kids since she'll have a better job than me but it should be all or nothing imo :)
Here's your problem: "Women" aren't one group. Some women want to be treated equally, period. Some women want to enjoy the double standard in certain areas. Some women couldn't care less. You're getting yourself confused because you're trying to lump all women into the same category. They're not.

As an old school old fart (male/age 55/married 33 years) it has been my experience that women who say yes to any form of co-habitation/sexual congress other than marriage are less likely to receive an early marriage proposal. Men are hunters by nature and once the "kill" has been made, they may stick around a while to eat the kill but they are always looking to the next hunt. Girls, my advice is to learn how to say, "NO!" and mean it. Then teach your man how to plow and if you make it worth his while to do so the hunt will lose its pull on him.
That advice only works if you assume that women want to marry the kind of man who thinks of himself as a "hunter," and who is very threatened by the idea of a woman who is also a "hunter."

Speaking as a woman, allow me to assure you that many of us are DELIGHTED that cohabitation scares away the kind of man who can only be happy in an unequal relationship. It removes the risk of one of such men proposing, and thus we don't have to worry about finding a gentle way to say, "No thank you, I'm not interested in being married to the 1950s."

:)

true

but when a man proposes to a woman, generally and traditionally, he buys her an engagement ring

would we not have to buy a man one if we proposed?

.. *daydreams about big shiny diamond & platimun things*
In case anybody is wondering, here's the story of why men buy women engagement rings...

Back in the day, women had an immutable "sell-by" date. If a woman reached the age of 25 or so and had not married, this was a disaster because all the eligable men would assume there was something wrong with her. Women had no opportunities of their own, and no means of support other than selling themselves to a husband, so failing to get married could quite literally ruin a woman's life.

Men, on the other hand, were allowed to have careers. Men were viewed as INCREASINGLY desireable as they got a bit older, and they didn't not have as narrow a window of time in which they must get married.

In this situation, men stood to lose very little if they broke off an engagement, while women stood to lose everything. A man might string a fiance along for a couple of years, enjoying perks like getting a job working for her father, but then decide something better had come along and just ditch the first girl. He wouldn't suffer at all for this, but the ex-fiance would be viewed as "damaged goods," and she also would have lost two precious years of eligability.

The solution was to make the man put a downpayment on his new purchase. He provided the woman with a very expensive piece of jewelry, which she would be entitled to keep if he should break things off. The reason why rings are, traditionally, so damn expensive is because this was supposed to be a very serious gesture. Remember, this ring is what she's going to have to live off of if he breaks the engagement and she can't get a new man.

And that, boys and girls, is the story of the engagement ring.

In the old days, women would be expected to wait for the guy to propose to her, after spending a few thousand of dollars on a diamond ring. Ever since the women for equality movement, this haven't changed much. Sure here and there women are proposing to their guys, but they're still a small small small minority. I would like to see an increase in this number! I say women should start going out and buying their guys a ring that cost a few thousand, and proposing to him! It sure as hell would take the pressure off us guys! What do yall think? I wouldn't mind if Liz proposed to me.
If I was trying to be PC, I would say "Of course, gender equality and all,", but I'm not, so I'm just going to say "maybe".

And that, boys and girls, is the story of the engagement ring.
Bottle, where on Earth did you get that story from?

When I went a shopping I heard everything from Roman iron rings to Popes and special class metals, to Archduke Maximillian of Austria to De Beer's advertising campain but never ANYTHING close to your yarn.

Bottle, where on Earth did you get that story from?

When I went a shopping I heard everything from Roman iron rings to Popes and special class metals, to Archduke Maximillian of Austria to De Beer's advertising campain but never ANYTHING close to your yarn.
Believe it or not, it was a research project for my American History class back in the day. The funny thing is that it's kind of a "feminist" idea, when you think about it...I mean, it's a bit odd to think of men putting a downpayment on their future wives, but it really was a clever way to try to equalize an unequal situation. If a guy was serious and committed, he stood to lose nothing (because when he married the woman the ring became his legal property again), and the woman got additional piece of mind.

I want to stress, though, that WEDDING rings are a whole different story. The engagement ring deal (at least as it is practiced in the Western world) sort of grew out of existing ring traditions, and those have all sorts of cool origins of their own. It's actually really impressive how many different cultures incorporated rings into their pair-bonding rituals, independent of one another.

In the old days, female children was bartered off much like lifestock.

I'll never understand this obsession with marriage. It seems a despicable practice, with the main purpose of disenfrachising people.

Traditionally speaking, that may be true. The institution of marriage as we know it was originally established as an exchange of property between two men (a father and a husband) that is predicated on the assumption that women are not to be regarded as full human beings.

However, human beings are quite capable of re-vamping our social institutions. There's no reason why marriage must continue to be viewed in this manner, any more than we still are required to view marriage as being exclusively for white people.

My fiance proposed to me, presented me with a ring he chose. I accepted.

I also got him a ring -- if I get a present symbolizing his commitment to me, why shouldn't he get one symbolizing mine? :)

My fiance proposed to me, presented me with a ring he chose. I accepted.

I also got him a ring -- if I get a present symbolizing his commitment to me, why shouldn't he get one symbolizing mine? :)

Sorry if this is long after the fact, but congratulations :)

I think I would do the same, it's only fair.

The ring is important..........I wouldn't mind asking (though I wouldn't like the fear of rejection) as long as I don't have to pay for the ring! (material yes but the worst your gonna do is not marry me:fluffle:

I'm a bit squigged out by the idea of ANYBODY proposing marriage, at least in the traditional sense. To me, getting married is a big decision that should be discussed at length before anybody proposes it or agrees to it, and that pretty much means that the "proposal" part will be accomplished mutually. I mean, maybe one person will be the one to actually say the words, "So would you like to get married?" But after discussing it for an hour or two, it's not like they're going to be in the dark about how their partner really feels, so it's not like there's going to be that huge suspense about the answer.

Hehe. By the time my fiance officially proposed, we had discussed it so much that he didn't even really ask the question. He gave me a ring and asked, "So when do you want to get married?"

My fiance proposed to me, presented me with a ring he chose. I accepted.

I also got him a ring -- if I get a present symbolizing his commitment to me, why shouldn't he get one symbolizing mine?

My fiance doesn't wear jewelry, so he wouldn't let me get him a ring. He asked me for a video game instead. His cost quite a bit less than mine, but it is what he asked for.

Hehe. By the time my fiance officially proposed, we had discussed it so much that he didn't even really ask the question. He gave me a ring and asked, "So when do you want to get married?"

For my parents, it was:

"Either we get married, or I'm moving out."
"Ok. When's the wedding?"

Their 30th wedding anniversary is in about a week. :D

You know what? I hate the word should. It implies some level of coercion almost.

I wouldn't be opposed to women proposing more, in fact I'd support it. But I'm not going to say that they should.

You know what? I hate the word should. It implies some level of coercion almost.

I wouldn't be opposed to women proposing more, in fact I'd support it. But I'm not going to say that they should.
Personally, I think fewer PEOPLE should be proposing. I think a great many people propose marriage when they are totally unprepared for what marriage actually entails. I think a great many people propose because they think they have to. I think a great many people propose because they're bored and want to do something exciting to spice up their lives. I think a great many people propose because they have completely ass-backwards ideas of how married relationships will work. I think there are just too damn many people who don't bother to get to know themselves before they run around promising their lives to somebody else.

I've got no objection to seeing women propose as often as men do. But I think EVERYBODY would do well to slow the hell down and think a bit more, before charging ahead into life-long contracts.

My fiance doesn't wear jewelry, so he wouldn't let me get him a ring. He asked me for a video game instead. His cost quite a bit less than mine, but it is what he asked for.

Video games are more fun then a piece of jewlery. He made the right choice.

If the man proposes that makes it his idea to get married and his fault if it doesn't work out. And since women can get men to do this, why would they do it themselves?

If the man proposes that makes it his idea to get married and his fault if it doesn't work out. And since women can get men to do this, why would they do it themselves?
Because women aren't stupid. :eek:

If the man proposes that makes it his idea to get married and his fault if it doesn't work out. And since women can get men to do this, why would they do it themselves?

Because it's a romantic idea, and women are suckers for romantic ideas. :D

Video games are more fun then a piece of jewlery. He made the right choice.
And, in case of emergency, he can always wear the DVD on his finger.

Because it's a romantic idea, and women are suckers for romantic ideas. :D
Gag. Please, I'm sure you're mostly kidding, but I'm so sick and tired of people talking about how women are suckers for romantic stuff. Men hear that kind of crap so often that they start to believe it, and then women like me are trapped in a world full of idiots who think that all women want flowers and jewelry and other crap like that. For the sake of my (rapidly diminishing) heterosexuality, please stop! :P

Gag. Please, I'm sure you're mostly kidding, but I'm so sick and tired of people talking about how women are suckers for romantic stuff. Men hear that kind of crap so often that they start to believe it, and then women like me are trapped in a world full of idiots who think that all women want flowers and jewelry and other crap like that. For the sake of my (rapidly diminishing) heterosexuality, please stop! :P
Woman do generally like 'romantic crap', whether or not you do yourself. Try being a man and not being romantic and you'll see we don't just do it because we're 'trained' to.

Because it's a romantic idea, and women are suckers for romantic ideas. :D
And men aren't?

Gag. Please, I'm sure you're mostly kidding, but I'm so sick and tired of people talking about how women are suckers for romantic stuff. Men hear that kind of crap so often that they start to believe it, and then women like me are trapped in a world full of idiots who think that all women want flowers and jewelry and other crap like that. For the sake of my (rapidly diminishing) heterosexuality, please stop! :P

I don't mind the occassional piece of jewelry. But there is more I need that that :p

And men aren't?

I hate V-Day, but I love Liz, so on V-Day, yea I do buy her a card, or take her out for dinner and a movie. Just because we do them, doesn't mean we like them, we do them (at least I do) because we want to make our significant other happy and know that we love them.

Gag. Please, I'm sure you're mostly kidding, but I'm so sick and tired of people talking about how women are suckers for romantic stuff. Men hear that kind of crap so often that they start to believe it, and then women like me are trapped in a world full of idiots who think that all women want flowers and jewelry and other crap like that. For the sake of my (rapidly diminishing) heterosexuality, please stop! :P
"Romantic" seems to consist mostly of exchanging material wealth for affection...

I hate V-Day, but I love Liz, so on V-Day, yea I do buy her a card, or take her out for dinner and a movie. Just because we do them, doesn't mean we like them, we do them (at least I do) because we want to make our significant other happy and know that we love them.
And you became representative of all men when exactly?

I hate V-Day, but I love Liz, so on V-Day, yea I do buy her a card, or take her out for dinner and a movie. Just because we do them, doesn't mean we like them, we do them (at least I do) because we want to make our significant other happy and know that we love them.
I loathe St. Valentine's Day, so unless I can be instrumental in its destruction I'm having nothing to do with it. My girlfriend isn't especially happy with this, but it's one of those obstinate things I'm not going to change. Ever. For anyone. She respects this by, and I thank her for, not buying me a card.
Besides, why waste shiny-tokens on overpriced pink tat?

And you became representative of all men when exactly?
Well, I'll second his view. I don't 'hate' Valentine's Day, but it can be a real pain. When you try to show someone you love them everyday of the year, the near compulsion of going even further on one particular day can be tricky. I think most woman like romantic stuff and most men don't.

There's a poll in that somewhere...

seriously isn't it a man's job to propose ? ;)


Seriously, isn't it a woman's job to do dishes and clean up?



....no I was only joking. Please don't kill me.

Seriously, isn't it a woman's job to do dishes and clean up?
You forgot the ironing!

My creased up clothes aren't going to do it themselves, you know.

You forgot the ironing!

My creased up clothes aren't going to do it themselves, you know.
Meh, ironing's a waste of time. The clothes don't work any better ironed. It's much better if she spends the time cooking instead.

Meh, ironing's a waste of time. The clothes don't work any better ironed. It's much better if she spends the time cooking instead.

Naked of course.... or perhaps a skimpy apron.....

And you became representative of all men when exactly?

The last time when all men whipped it out and I won. :D

Well, I'll second his view. I don't 'hate' Valentine's Day, but it can be a real pain. When you try to show someone you love them everyday of the year, the near compulsion of going even further on one particular day can be tricky. I think most woman like romantic stuff and most men don't.

There's a poll in that somewhere...
Ok... and every single woman expects something for Valentine's day?

Meh, ironing's a waste of time. The clothes don't work any better ironed. It's much better if she spends the time cooking instead.
I detest ironing. Seriously, my fiancée and I have an agreement; I'll do all the cooking, cleaning and other housework if she just does the ironing.

I really don't care who proposes.

The last time when all men whipped it out and I won. :D
Uh huh... so now not only do I have the idea that you like to stereotype people based on gender, but that you have a small penis and like to overcompensate.

Ok... and every single woman expects something for Valentine's day?
If not in a relationship, they hope.

If they are in a relationship then yes, they expect. Boy oh boy, do they expect.

Ok... and every single woman expects something for Valentine's day?

The majoirty of them do, and that's a big big majoirty.

I never plan on marriage for several reasons.

1.) I don't like a lot of the materialism involved in it

2.) There is too much planning involved in the weddings that is pointless, like what color suits and stuff, when I'd rather it just be the two of us and our parents and family (and my step-parents).... and Stephen Colbert because he's funny and sexy...

3.) If I present my woman (or man...or woman-man...) with a simple ring, it could bring out her materialistic side and she could complain about me not caring (which would show that she does not trust that I love her) and I don't believe material wealth is important

4.) It seems it would most likely affect my signifigant other less if I commit suicide when we aren't married, since I've found that the only way I'd want to die is by my own hands.. but whether I'm married or not, I'd leave a very lengthy note...

Uh huh... so now not only do I have the idea that you like to stereotype people based on gender, but that you have a small penis and like to overcompensate.

Gah, it was a JOKE! Jeez, a freaking Joke!

If not in a relationship, they hope.

If they are in a relationship then yes, they expect. Boy oh boy, do they expect.

:D

I detest ironing. Seriously, my fiancée and I have an agreement; I'll do all the cooking, cleaning and other housework if she just does the ironing.
I just don't iron ;)

I don't think women should propose. But then again, I guess I'm just an old-fashioned sort of girl. *sigh*

Well, I'll second his view. I don't 'hate' Valentine's Day, but it can be a real pain. When you try to show someone you love them everyday of the year, the near compulsion of going even further on one particular day can be tricky. I think most woman like romantic stuff and most men don't.

There's a poll in that somewhere...
I think it depends how you define romantic. If you define it as doing random little sweet things to show you care, show you think about the other person, show you mean a lot to them and like putting effort into simply making them smile etc etc.... then yeah, I like romantic things. Trying "to show someone you love them everyday of the year" = romantic, by my definition. Buying things out of a feeling of obligation on Valentines day =/= romantic. I don't have a single thing against Valentines Day - I enjoy the day - it really boils down to the attitude people have towards it.

If not in a relationship, they hope.

If they are in a relationship then yes, they expect. Boy oh boy, do they expect.
I'm in a relationship. I don't expect this for any reason other than my boyfriend expressing the view that he likes doing that kind of stuff for me (just like I like doing that kind of stuff for him, I might note). Actually, in the end, I feel mildly guilty for any expense and effort, and definitly try and show my appreciation fully, and also return to the degree that I can.

Reality > Generalisations.

EDIT: I'd also probably criticise any girl who just expects their boyfriend to go all out for them on Valentine's Day.

Gah, it was a JOKE! Jeez, a freaking Joke!
Well, when people are throwing around gender stereotypes, I don't tend to take it too lightly.

If not in a relationship, they hope.

If they are in a relationship then yes, they expect. Boy oh boy, do they expect.
Uh... no "they" don't.

The majoirty of them do, and that's a big big majoirty.
I doubt that.

Well, when people are throwing around gender stereotypes, I don't tend to take it too lightly.

Well maybe you should, jeez, if you take life too seriously you'll have a heart attack at the age of 40. Comon, lighten up, be cool.

Uh... no "they" don't.
Well, you can go on believing your feminist nonsense and I'll go on believing my real-world generalisations.

Honestly, you'll never get a husband at this rate.

Well maybe you should, jeez, if you take life too seriously you'll have a heart attack at the age of 40. Comon, lighten up, be cool.
And if you don't stop making such ridiculous generalisations, you'll end up in ridiculously unhealthy relationships.

For someone who twists a simple comedy film into an evil agenda of feminists, I'd think before you tell people to "lighten up".

Well, you can go on believing your feminist nonsense and I'll go on believing my real-world generalisations.

Honestly, you'll never get a husband at this rate.
How is it not "real-world" to accept that not all females want/expect/need/act the same?

How is it not "real-world" to accept that not all females want/expect/need/act the same?
People do generally want/expect/need/act in the same way. We all share a common human ancestry and behavioural patterns. This means there is only ever a variation on a theme; never a totally new symphony.

And if you don't stop making such ridiculous generalisations, you'll end up in ridiculously unhealthy relationships.

Honestly, I am not this bad in person. My girlfriend goes to college, and I support her for it. I even want her to get her Masters. I want a two income family, and we made an agreement that if we get married, we pool our resources together to pay the bills, and to help and support one another. I am trying to fight for equality, and for women and men to have a partnership with one another, because right now, what we have is one side trying to beat the other side to supremcey. What we really should have is a partnership. My girlfriend and I have that parternship.


For someone who twists a simple comedy film into an evil agenda of feminists, I'd think before you tell people to "lighten up".

Wow, from one thread, you think I am not an easy going guy at all. Now whos' generalizing?

Well maybe you should, jeez, if you take life too seriously you'll have a heart attack at the age of 40. Comon, lighten up, be cool.
I'm not going to lighten up while you denigrate my gender.

Well, you can go on believing your feminist nonsense and I'll go on believing my real-world generalisations.
Yes, silly me for believing that people are equal regardless of gender.

Honestly, you'll never get a husband at this rate.
If every man had that sort of attitude, I wouldn't want one.

Yes, silly me for believing that people are equal regardless of gender.
Who said anything about equality? We were talking about whether or not woman like romantic gestures.

It's the feminist persecution/insecurity complex that links the two, not intellegence.

Who said anything about equality? We were talking about whether or not woman like romantic gestures.
We're talking about treating people as individuals instead of faceless blobs to be put into convenient boxes. You're acting like all women like one thing and all women are stupid bimbos won over by flowers and expensive gifts.

It's the feminist persecution/insecurity complex that links the two, not intellegence.
I don't even know where this comment came from. Perhaps we should address the male insecurity and persecution complex that causes some to rally against equality.

Personally, I think fewer PEOPLE should be proposing. I think a great many people propose marriage when they are totally unprepared for what marriage actually entails. I think a great many people propose because they think they have to. I think a great many people propose because they're bored and want to do something exciting to spice up their lives. I think a great many people propose because they have completely ass-backwards ideas of how married relationships will work. I think there are just too damn many people who don't bother to get to know themselves before they run around promising their lives to somebody else.

I've got no objection to seeing women propose as often as men do. But I think EVERYBODY would do well to slow the hell down and think a bit more, before charging ahead into life-long contracts.

Finally a voice of reason. NO ONE should get married without talking about it for at least a month or six. And I don't mean talking about the wedding its self. Besides folks spend way too much $ on a wedding that they could use to start their life with.

People do generally want/expect/need/act in the same way. We all share a common human ancestry and behavioural patterns. This means there is only ever a variation on a theme; never a totally new symphony.
Well, some women love lots of meaningless romantic stuff, some women like romantic stuff by another definition, and some women utterly hate it. Some expect it, some are surprised and grateful for it, and some reject it and would be offended by it. I don't know how that all fits into your theory. Personally, I'd say they're totally opposing views and ideas and attitudes.

Call me an old fashioned romantic but the idea of a very corny proposal and a nice shiny ring by a guy sounds great.... mind you if he couldn't get his act together I would consider proposing myself but that's no fun....
seriously isn't it a man's job to propose ? ;)
No.

true

but when a man proposes to a woman, generally and traditionally, he buys her an engagement ring

would we not have to buy a man one if we proposed?
Same rules apply, but I am against expensive rings in general.

We're talking about treating people as individuals instead of faceless blobs to be put into convenient boxes. You're acting like all women like one thing and all women are stupid bimbos won over by flowers and expensive gifts.
Again, who said anything about stupid bimbos? You claim to rally against generalisations, but then come out with a sweeping comment that any woman who likes romance is somehow a tart?

Woman are far from 'one thing'. However, there are common themes that can be seen. It is these that the above generalisations are addressing, not 'boxing' women.

I don't even know where this comment came from. Perhaps we should address the male insecurity and persecution complex that causes some to rally against equality.
Again, who said anything about equality? It is something you are trying to throw into the equation, as if a general observation on woman somehow threatens your rights to go out and make some money. So you don't like roses? I won't buy you any. Just don't be surprised that most men do buy their woman some.

I've taught my daughter that relashionships aren't about $ and that big weddings are a waste of it. Both her and her boyfriend of 4 years wear plain bands with engraving on the inside. One of these days they might even get legalized.

Honestly, I am not this bad in person. My girlfriend goes to college, and I support her for it. I even want her to get her Masters. I want a two income family, and we made an agreement that if we get married, we pool our resources together to pay the bills, and to help and support one another. I am trying to fight for equality, and for women and men to have a partnership with one another, because right now, what we have is one side trying to beat the other side to supremcey. What we really should have is a partnership. My girlfriend and I have that parternship.
Good for you. I'm still wary of the effect the generalisations you make will have on your relationship.

Wow, from one thread, you think I am not an easy going guy at all. Now whos' generalizing?
No, I think you're hypocritical to tell someone to "lighten up", especially when I'd see what Dakini is talking about as slightly more important and warranting serious discussion. Noting something you've done is hardly generalising, and even if I was generalising about your character, that's quite a stretch from generalising about a gender.

Well, some women love lots of meaningless romantic stuff, some women like romantic stuff by another definition, and some women utterly hate it. Some expect it, some are surprised and grateful for it, and some reject it and would be offended by it. I don't know how that all fits into your theory. Personally, I'd say they're totally opposing views and ideas and attitudes.

Hey if a fella (or woman) doesn't know this about their intended then maybe they shouldn't propose until they do.

Well, some women love lots of meaningless romantic stuff, some women like romantic stuff by another definition, and some women utterly hate it. Some expect it, some are surprised and grateful for it, and some reject it and would be offended by it. I don't know how that all fits into your theory. Personally, I'd say they're totally opposing views and ideas and attitudes.
A generalisation is, by definition, a description of the general state of affairs. I think Dakini is more than showing that not every woman likes a box of chocolates.

Again, who said anything about stupid bimbos? You claim to rally against generalisations, but then come out with a sweeping comment that any woman who likes romance is somehow a tart?
I think her statement was more saying that women who obsess over things such as flowers and place huge value on them, or who'll be with a guy simply because he gets her such gifts are stupid. Which I don't think is too much off the mark. I've no problem with giving flowers or gifts, but there are some attitudes towards them that I would class as stupid.

I'm assuming here that bimbo simply means someone stupid, not a tart, because I've never heard that use of the word.

A generalisation is, by definition, a description of the general state of affairs. I think Dakini is more than showing that not every woman likes a box of chocolates.
Where's your disagreement then? You can both agree that some do like it, and some don't. It's not that hard to avoid an unnecessary, insulting generalisation.

Where's your disagreement then? You can both agree that some do like it, and some don't. It's not that hard to avoid an unnecessary, insulting generalisation.
The disagreement is in the 'some'. I say 'most'. And I hardly think that 'most woman like romance and most men don't' is insulting.

Again, who said anything about stupid bimbos? You claim to rally against generalisations, but then come out with a sweeping comment that any woman who likes romance is somehow a tart?
No, I didn't mean to say that every woman who likes to get flowers is a bimbo. Women who sit about expecting it, who would do something like say, dump a guy who didn't preform such tasks or allow a man to treat her like dirt in exchange for the occasional token of affection, however...

Woman are far from 'one thing'. However, there are common themes that can be seen. It is these that the above generalisations are addressing, not 'boxing' women.
So that means that your opinion that most women like this is definitely true? Are you sure that it's not just that society has certain expectations of both men and women? That perhaps men and women are raised to expect these things and to leave relationships that do not conform to these expectations?

Also, I notice in your last paragraph that you refer to a woman as the property of a man. Good job.

And not every woman wants to get married. I spent my youth outrunning guys I got a lot of proposals and found myself having to make my views very clear at the beginning. I think they found it a challenge or that I was "just saying that". When my hubby and I hooked up he teased me about it. We've been married a very long time.

The disagreement is in the 'some'. I say 'most'. And I hardly think that 'most woman like romance and most men don't' is insulting.
I never said it was insulting, I said that it was innacurate. There's a huge difference.

So that means that your opinion that most women like this is definitely true? Are you sure that it's not just that society has certain expectations of both men and women? That perhaps men and women are raised to expect these things and to leave relationships that do not conform to these expectations?
I don't believe that women like flowers because they're told to by society. I believe they like to be loved, and symbols of love therefore make them happy. You could argue about whether or not liking flowers is something we've grown up with, but not the fact that gifts are an important part of human relationships.

Also, I notice in your last paragraph that you refer to a woman as the property of a man. Good job.
You know, I thought about changing that before I posted it. But then I though "nah, no one would be so petty minded as to pick up on a widely used and accepted figure of speech".

I suppose we all make mistakes.

The disagreement is in the 'some'. I say 'most'.
'Some' is not specific, and seeing as none of us can get a definitive answer for percentages of women with different views, it's better.

And I hardly think that 'most woman like romance and most men don't' is insulting.
Saying that all women in relationships expect gifts on a random day of the year, and all single women hope for gifts is insulting. (edit: for clarification, the statement you quoted is not one I find insulting and I never claimed I did)

It assumes a materialistic attitude. It assumes a pretty pathetic and unhealthy view of relationships, and priorities. It assumes some excessive control women exercise over guys.

Apart from all that, making a generalisation like you did (whether you seem to have back-peddled now) treats women as some big blob of people with no distinct features and no worth as an individual or an actual person, just a thing with a different reproductive organ who can be second guessed and treated in a certain way because of that irrelavant information.

If you don't get why that is insulting, I feel sorry for your fiancee.

Also, I notice in your last paragraph that you refer to a woman as the property of a man. Good job.
Are you referring to "their woman", because surely that's just a shorter way of saying "the woman with whom he has a relationship". Hell, "relationship" itself is a vague term, but I won't digress here.

I never said it was insulting, I said that it was innacurate. There's a huge difference.
It was me who said that generalisations were insulting.

'Some' is not specific, and seeing as none of us can get a definitive answer for percentages of women with different views, it's better.
'Most' is better for those of us who live in the real world, not in a statistic.

Saying that all women in relationships expect gifts on a random day of the year, and all single women hope for gifts is insulting.
It's not a random day. It's a very well defined day, that comes around every year without fail.

It assumes a materialistic attitude. It assumes a pretty pathetic and unhealthy view of relationships, and priorities. It assumes some excessive control women exercise over guys.

Apart from all that, making a generalisation like you did (whether you seem to have back-peddled now) treats women as some big blob of people with no distinct features and no worth as an individual or an actual person, just a thing with a different reproductive organ who can be second guessed and treated in a certain way because of that irrelavant information.

If you don't get why that is insulting, I feel sorry for your fiancee.
You think being given gifts of love is materialistic? You think a man putting some effort into a relationship is treating them as a big blob of people?

If that's what you truly think, I feel sorry for your boyfriend.

Valentines, Mothers day etc are all commercial creations. I have told my hubby to buy me flowers or whatever on any day but these.
Too many people and yes, my fellow females expect something but don't do anything for the guy. If your going to celebrate it make sure it goes both ways. I've heard it said that guys should get a BJ and beer day as a "balance" for Valentines. Any comments on that?

'Most' is better for those of us who live in the real world, not in a statistic.
I'm saying statistics are useless. You have no idea whether "most" is accurate or not.

You think being given gifts of love is materialistic?
No, I think an emphasis on material items in a relationship is materialistic.

You think a man putting some effort into a relationship is treating them as a big blob of people?
No. Ignoring that people are individuals and like different things is not putting any effort into anything.

Seriously, how exactly did you manage to reply to my post after you seem to have put all your efforts into twisting my words?

I believe they like to be loved, and symbols of love therefore make them happy.
Again, you're generalizing. Not all women are made happier by symbols of love. Many of us prefer gestures and treatment that deonote love and affection to material gifts. I'm also going to go out on a limb and assume that men like to be loved too...

You could argue about whether or not liking flowers is something we've grown up with, but not the fact that gifts are an important part of human relationships.
And women aren't the only ones who like receiving gifts.

You know, I thought about changing that before I posted it. But then I though "nah, no one would be so petty minded as to pick up on a widely used and accepted figure of speech".
So it's petty that I point out that you imply that men own women? Right.

Are you referring to "their woman", because surely that's just a shorter way of saying "the woman with whom he has a relationship". Hell, "relationship" itself is a vague term, but I won't digress here.
His girlfriend/wife/(insert title describing relationship here) would have been better as it implies a relationship instead of ownership, similar to saying his mother or father.

Yea, but now women and men are equal, or as close as we're ever going to get, so comon women, start buying those expensive rings and get down on your knees! :D *And get that thought out of your head!*
No.

..hunt to kill?.. wtf.. do I LOOK like a peice of meat?
although throw me over ya shoulder and take me to the bedroom and then you might be onto something...
Duly noted.

His girlfriend/wife/(insert title describing relationship here) would have been better as it implies a relationship instead of ownership, similar to saying his mother or father.
True, but he was probably trying to indicate a relationship without specifying marital status. It's more likely that he wanted to indicate that than to claim that women were property.

It seems that this thread has little to do about marriage now, its more every one claiming everyone else is wrong and a bigot and that they are the only ones who know the truth. Life comes down to this, no matter what you say, you are going to be wrong about some people and right about other people. if you say a statement and there is one person in the world who it is right for, then the statement is right, but if there is one who it is wrong for, then the statement is also wrong. To quote Camus (French guy)

"Everything is the truth, and nothing is"


And to comment on the first part, woman proposing to men is nothing really new. My mother proposed to my father, my father quite his job, one where he was making much more money then my mother but who liked his less them my mother did, to raise me and my siblings, and to this day, My mom never really does traditional "female" roles like cooking and cleaning, she is the bread winner, my dad cooks.
oh and my mom does want gifts on mothers day and valentines and my dad wants them on fathers day, they aren’t shallow, they enjoy it.

I never even noticed that there was something different about this then anything else anyone else does. Every person will have things they like and will have things they hate. No matter what you do you will piss someone off for doing it, and someone else will think its great.

This is my three cents (inflation hit the two):D

As an old school old fart (male/age 55/married 33 years) it has been my experience that women who say yes to any form of co-habitation/sexual congress other than marriage are less likely to receive an early marriage proposal. Men are hunters by nature and once the "kill" has been made, they may stick around a while to eat the kill but they are always looking to the next hunt. Girls, my advice is to learn how to say, "NO!" and mean it. Then teach your man how to plow and if you make it worth his while to do so the hunt will lose its pull on him.
You might be right but you really are old school. I most certainly don't want an early proposal. I'd never even think about marriage if I hadn't been with the same guy over 3 years and also lived with him. I don't like to gamble on issues like this. He has "stuck around" for several years now. In our relationship I'm the one who does (did) the hunting. I'm damn happy that he didn't say no...

Your idea of a relationship does not suit me.

In the old days, women would be expected to wait for the guy to propose to her, after spending a few thousand of dollars on a diamond ring. Ever since the women for equality movement, this haven't changed much. Sure here and there women are proposing to their guys, but they're still a small small small minority. I would like to see an increase in this number! I say women should start going out and buying their guys a ring that cost a few thousand, and proposing to him! It sure as hell would take the pressure off us guys! What do yall think? I wouldn't mind if Liz proposed to me.
I dunno. at a friends wedding recently, he got her a gold wedding band, she got him THE ONE RING... complete with Mordorian scripted engraved on both sides of the ring.

everyone made the same comment.

"she's supposed to get that one" :D

I dunno. at a friends wedding recently, he got her a gold wedding band, she got him THE ONE RING... complete with Mordorian scripted engraved on both sides of the ring.
I'm not allowed to use that one either.

*sighs* My fiancee can be very mean at times. :p

I'm not allowed to use that one either.

*sighs* My fiancee can be very mean at times. :p
what about the Nurses uniform... or the french maid uniform...

she will put those on for you right? *nudge nudge wink wink "say no more"*

In the old days, women would be expected to wait for the guy to propose to her, after spending a few thousand of dollars on a diamond ring. Ever since the women for equality movement, this haven't changed much. Sure here and there women are proposing to their guys, but they're still a small small small minority. I would like to see an increase in this number! I say women should start going out and buying their guys a ring that cost a few thousand, and proposing to him! It sure as hell would take the pressure off us guys! What do yall think? I wouldn't mind if Liz proposed to me.
Cheapskate!:p

I'm a bit squigged out by the idea of ANYBODY proposing marriage, at least in the traditional sense. To me, getting married is a big decision that should be discussed at length before anybody proposes it or agrees to it, and that pretty much means that the "proposal" part will be accomplished mutually. I mean, maybe one person will be the one to actually say the words, "So would you like to get married?" But after discussing it for an hour or two, it's not like they're going to be in the dark about how their partner really feels, so it's not like there's going to be that huge suspense about the answer.

Hear hear!

I went to a drive-in movie with a group of people just the other day, and one of the guys proposed to his girlfriend there. The announcer man directed the entire audience's attention to us, and everyone in the group stood around them with a lit white candle...needless to say, it was EXTREMELY corny.

But my point is, I feel the same way as you. I was rather upset at the guy because I would never do that to a person. If she said no, everyone at the drive-in would know, she would be ashamed and his night would be shot. I think that you should discuss marriage with a person instead of doing a grand proposal, or at the very least you can do that afterwards after you have both agreed and no one else knows that =P

Call me an old fashioned romantic but the idea of a very corny proposal and a nice shiny ring by a guy sounds great.... mind you if he couldn't get his act together I would consider proposing myself but that's no fun....
seriously isn't it a man's job to propose ? ;)
Job!? :eek: Shouldn't it be his honor to propose?

Yea, if I ever do marry Liz, I would have a long talk with her about it. Don't need to buy such an expensive ring unless I know she wants to get married to me.

Yea, if I ever do marry Liz, I would have a long talk with her about it. Don't need to buy such an expensive ring unless I know she wants to get married to me.

It's deffinatley wise to make sure you know what we want before you give it to us :)

It's deffinatley wise to make sure you know what we want before you give it to us :)

It'd be so much easier if you told us.

I think they could do it a wee bit more and not always expect the man to do it.

I call sexism!

It'd be so much easier if you told us.
may I remind you of "THE RULES"

women are permitted to change their minds and anytime...

It'd be so much easier if you told us.


Oh come on, you know we expect you to be psychic :D

Oh come on, you know we expect you to be psychic :D

I'd rather have electrokinesis. Can you expect us to have that?

I'd rather have electrokinesis. Can you expect us to have that?

I'm sure it would be helpful yes.

I'm sure it would be helpful yes.

The force is powerful in this one

Mstreeted is a master of girl-fu

The force is powerful in this one

Mstreeted is a master of girl-fu

Indeed.

We demand pictures!

The force is powerful in this one

Mstreeted is a master of girl-fu

Go Forth And Epilate!

Indeed.

We demand pictures!

Shame I'm at work and dont have any to show you! :p

There's on on my blog spot http://mstreeted.blogspot.com/

Shame I'm at work and dont have any to show you! :p

There's on on my blog spot http://mstreeted.blogspot.com/

*nod* That'll do. :D

Go Forth And Epilate!

Pluck WHAT?!?!?!

*nod* That'll do. :D
oh wait.. and I have photobucket

http://s63.photobucket.com/albums/h123/mstreeted/

Pluck WHAT?!?!?!
I believe the correct term is What The Pluck.....

In the old days, women would be expected to wait for the guy to propose to her, after spending a few thousand of dollars on a diamond ring. Ever since the women for equality movement, this haven't changed much. Sure here and there women are proposing to their guys, but they're still a small small small minority. I would like to see an increase in this number! I say women should start going out and buying their guys a ring that cost a few thousand, and proposing to him! It sure as hell would take the pressure off us guys! What do yall think? I wouldn't mind if Liz proposed to me.


Well, if the woman is a lesbian she has to. ;)

Hehe. By the time my fiance officially proposed, we had discussed it so much that he didn't even really ask the question. He gave me a ring and asked, "So when do you want to get married?"



My fiance doesn't wear jewelry, so he wouldn't let me get him a ring. He asked me for a video game instead. His cost quite a bit less than mine, but it is what he asked for.
Two questions: 1) how long ago was that and 2) does he still have it?

Because it's a romantic idea, and women are suckers for romantic ideas. :D
Not all of them. And so are some of us guys.

Not all of them. And so are some of us guys.

I think I can hear violins playing in the background of your mind :)

I don't mind the occassional piece of jewelry. But there is more I need that that :p
Monty Python references/DVD's?:confused:

I think I can hear violins playing in the background of your mind :)
Always. They're always playing.
*looks romantically to the stars*

Always. They're always playing.
*looks romantically to the stars*

Cant see the stars near me.. living in a city it's a bit too smoggy :(

My wife basically proposed to me. She announced one day she was ready to be married. :D

Woman won't take the lead on that because the slightest hint of it makes most guys run like the devil is chasing them.

My wife basically proposed to me. She announced one day she was ready to be married. :D

Woman won't take the lead on that because the slightest hint of it makes most guys run like the devil is chasing them.

Exactly...if we love you to the point where we want to spend forever with you, we'd never tell you incase you run

If we want to get rid of you, we hint at marriage, and then freak out when you get down on one knee

*shrug*

I hate V-Day, but I love Liz, so on V-Day, yea I do buy her a card, or take her out for dinner and a movie. Just because we do them, doesn't mean we like them, we do them (at least I do) because we want to make our significant other happy and know that we love them.
Eh, you've confused the consumerist holiday for romance, methinks. You fail at life and romance.

Uh huh... so now not only do I have the idea that you like to stereotype people based on gender, but that you have a small penis and like to overcompensate.
Will you marry me?:p

I think it depends how you define romantic. If you define it as doing random little sweet things to show you care, show you think about the other person, show you mean a lot to them and like putting effort into simply making them smile etc etc.... then yeah, I like romantic things. Trying "to show someone you love them everyday of the year" = romantic, by my definition. Buying things out of a feeling of obligation on Valentines day =/= romantic. I don't have a single thing against Valentines Day - I enjoy the day - it really boils down to the attitude people have towards it.
Are you sure you haven't been stealing lines from things I've posted over the last six months?:eek:

Monty Python references/DVD's?:confused:

Lol, Those things are nice, but that wasn't what I meant :p

It'd be so much easier if you told us.
But there's no fun in that.

Cant see the stars near me.. living in a city it's a bit too smoggy :(
Then it should me more romantic to you to imagine it. Unless you're not into that sort of romance.

Then it should me more romantic to you to imagine it. Unless you're not into that sort of romance.

I dont know if it's MORE romantic to imagine it - romance to me is a gesture, a thing, something tangeable, or a word... not something made up in my head :)

Lol, Those things are nice, but that wasn't what I meant :p
I know. But I gave you a small sample of what I like to offer.

I dont know if it's MORE romantic to imagine it - romance to me is a gesture, a thing, something tangeable, or a word... not something made up in my head :)
No, I meant imagining the gesture.

No, I meant imagining the gesture.

Ah, I see.

Ah, I see.
No, you don't. Too much smog. :p

No, you don't. Too much smog. :p

well yes, the mind is hazy

well yes, the mind is hazy
Delightfully so.;)

Delightfully so.;)

:D

makes for an interesting day!

:D

makes for an interesting day!
bleh!
*collapses in a coma*

Woman do generally like 'romantic crap', whether or not you do yourself. Try being a man and not being romantic and you'll see we don't just do it because we're 'trained' to.
Women don't "generally" like anything. And I say this both as a person who IS a woman and a person who has dated women. I have spent a great deal of time trying to attract women, to get women to like me, and to please women who I am fortunate enough to date. In my experience, a great many women who a receptive to romantic crap will eventually confide that there are other things they like a whole lot more...it's just the idea of "the thought that counts." They understand that a guy (or another girl) is trying to be sweet, and THAT is what they are responding to. But a great many of them have a long list of things they would rather receive than a dozen roses.

I find it funny how I always get a very defensive response from guys when I say stuff like, "Please don't pretend that all women like romantic crap." They always try to insist that lots of women DO like it, and therefore generalizing is fine and dandy. Well, sure, if you just want to date Generic Womanbot. But if you want to increase your chances with any INDIVIDUAL woman, then I suggest you completely forget about trying to figure out what women in general enjoy...it will only get in your way. Learn about the individual woman you are interested in, and you'll save yourself a lot of time, money, and heartache.

"Romantic" seems to consist mostly of exchanging material wealth for affection...
And it's not even liquid assets! If I'm gonna prostitute myself, I at least want to get paid in the form of something useful. ;)

:D

makes for an interesting day!


Hello hello hello? :fluffle:

If not in a relationship, they hope.

If they are in a relationship then yes, they expect. Boy oh boy, do they expect.
It's really too bad if you are wasting your time with women who work this way, but, frankly, that's your own bad judgment at work. There's no reason for you to try to blame Womankind for the fact that you have chosen to put up with shallow, unimaginative women who are obsessed with material wealth.

Well, you can go on believing your feminist nonsense and I'll go on believing my real-world generalisations.

Honestly, you'll never get a husband at this rate.
Hehe, I love this theory...

"All women are so desperate for a husband that they will debase themselves in any way necessary in order to get mysogenist assholes to want to marry them."

Darling, if being a feminist could really chase away all the dull, unimaginative, sexist men in the world, then there wouldn't be a woman alive who didn't own a giant I AM A FEMINIST sign. :)

Well, some women love lots of meaningless romantic stuff, some women like romantic stuff by another definition, and some women utterly hate it. Some expect it, some are surprised and grateful for it, and some reject it and would be offended by it. I don't know how that all fits into your theory. Personally, I'd say they're totally opposing views and ideas and attitudes.
Bingo.

Feminist: "Women are autonimous human beings. Different women will have different likes and dislikes, much as how men have different likes and dislikes. If a man genuinely cares about a woman, he will probably be interested in doing things she likes, and refraining from doing things she does not like. He probably will not waste time telling her that because she is female she DOES SO like getting roses every Valentines Day."

Anti-feminist: "All women like roses. Shut up or you'll never get a man and you'll die alone surrounded by cats."

Hehe, I love this theory...

"All women are so desperate for a husband that they will debase themselves in any way necessary in order to get mysogenist assholes to want to marry them."

Darling, if being a feminist could really chase away all the dull, unimaginative, sexist men in the world, then there wouldn't be a woman alive who didn't own a giant I AM A FEMINIST sign. :)


I like this theory.

Let's reverse this one:
If wearing a short skirt was a guarantee to attract the dull, imaginative, sexist men in the world, there would not be a woman alive who wore one.

Mind you, when I was walking along Park Road 15 minutes ago, I reckon short skirts accounted for some 50% of the females in sight.

I like this theory.

Let's reverse this one:
If wearing a short skirt was a guarantee to attract the dull, imaginative, sexist men in the world, there would not be a woman alive who wore one.

Mind you, when I was walking along Park Road 15 minutes ago, I reckon short skirts accounted for some 50% of the females in sight.

do i NEED to remind you where you live?.. i'm not surprised

Hello hello hello? :fluffle:

Well hello
:fluffle:

Well hello
:fluffle:


Hiya! missed ya! :fluffle:

Woman won't take the lead on that because the slightest hint of it makes most guys run like the devil is chasing them.
Which is kind of sad, if you think about it...I mean, how awful is it, that there are so many women who are in serious relationships with men who they believe would "run like the devil is chasing them" to get away from marriage?

That's gotta feel awful. "Here I am, a woman in a serious relationship. I love my partner, and I would really like to get married, but I know that he will panic at the idea of marrying me." That's gotta suck.

Hiya! missed ya! :fluffle:

Really?... I'm like a fly.... you just cant get rid of me, and I make an annoying humming sound :p

do i NEED to remind you where you live?.. i'm not surprised

Yeah, well, I would not be all that surprised if the local definition of a quality husband had something to do with not beating the crap out of the missus before unilaterally taking one's conjugal rights after coming home from pub+kebab.

I like this theory.

Let's reverse this one:
If wearing a short skirt was a guarantee to attract the dull, imaginative, sexist men in the world, there would not be a woman alive who wore one.

Could be. On the other hand, there are some who have the radical notion that women occasionally purchase clothing for reasons other than getting a man. Crazy, I know...


Mind you, when I was walking along Park Road 15 minutes ago, I reckon short skirts accounted for some 50% of the females in sight.
Those HARLOTS!!!

Really?... I'm like a fly.... you just cant get rid of me, and I make an annoying humming sound :p


*playacts at frogging*
:fluffle:
*slurp*
[/frog]
On the downside, I'll be off to collect someone's dirty laundry after 1.
Poor sod hasn't had clean rags on him for a week.
Will be back after 2:30, I reckon.

*playacts at frogging*
:fluffle:
*slurp*
[/frog]
On the downside, I'll be off to collect someone's dirty laundry after 1.
Poor sod hasn't had clean rags on him for a week.
Will be back after 2:30, I reckon.

Is that like dogging?... :confused:

*makes note of time*

If I dont have too much on I should be around.

Could be. On the other hand, there are some who have the radical notion that women occasional purchase clothing for reasons other than getting a man. Crazy, I know...


Those HARLOTS!!!


I think your problem is that you are just as bad as generalising as the guy who is currently writing this answer!

Generalising is EBIL!

*throws hissyfit for Bottle's amusent*

boldened bit yeah, well... harlots isn't all that far from the standard at Park Road...

Is that like dogging?... :confused:

*makes note of time*

If I dont have too much on I should be around.


That's like enjoying flies by mouth ;)

That's like enjoying flies by mouth ;)

:eek:

:headbang:

;)

:eek:

:headbang:

;)
I'm so baaaad!

Anyway: women should propose more IMHO.

I'm so baaaad!

Anyway: women should propose more IMHO.

to quote a movie

You're not so bad ass as you think you are

Anyway: women should propose more IMHO.
Say, here's a question for the lads out there:

Assuming you are one of the fellows who would like to see women proposing more often, what kind of proposal would really win you over? (if any)

Wow. I don't really know where this conversation has gotten to, but for me, if a woman proposed to me, I would be fairly insulted or laugh at her. Just doesn't feel right.

to quote a movie

You're not so bad ass as you think you are

I could not be.

My thinking must be off.

Including what I just wrote.

I could not be.

My thinking must be off.

Including what I just wrote.

You're thinking is always off .. just slightly;)

Say, here's a question for the lads out there:

Assuming you are one of the fellows who would like to see women proposing more often, what kind of proposal would really win you over? (if any)


It would depend more on the proposer than the proposal - I am not the most desperate chap on the planet.

Proposals I'd like to hear ( apart from the Big One)
-movie at 2000?
-can I take you to... ( eg. Whitby )
-have you ever kissed under that tree in this park?

The packaging of the proposal ( and not the proposer ) is less relevant than it's contents.
And the contents should revolve around 'Why don't you and I spend quality time together? '.

You're thinking is always off .. just slightly;)


I can prove I'm sane: NHS said so. Can you? :fluffle:

Wow. I don't really know where this conversation has gotten to, but for me, if a woman proposed to me, I would be fairly insulted or laugh at her. Just doesn't feel right.

...I think it is because you are... a pervert
*biatch-slap*

It would depend more on the proposer than the proposal - I am not the most desperate chap on the planet.Proposals I'd like to hear ( apart from the Big One)
-movie at 2000?
-can I take you to... ( eg. Whitby )
-have you ever kissed under that tree in this park?

The packaging of the proposal ( and not the proposer ) is less relevant than it's contents.
And the contents should revolve around 'Why don't you and I spend quality time together? '.


good to know?

:cool:

It would depend more on the proposer than the proposal - I am not the most desperate chap on the planet.

Proposals I'd like to hear ( apart from the Big One)
-movie at 2000?
-can I take you to... ( eg. Whitby )
-have you ever kissed under that tree in this park?

The packaging of the proposal ( and not the proposer ) is less relevant than it's contents.
And the contents should revolve around 'Why don't you and I spend quality time together? '.
Fair enough. But let's say, for the sake of argument, that the person proposing is somebody who you would seriously consider marrying. Is there a way they could propose that would totally knock your socks off? Is there a way they could propose that would turn you off so completely that you wanted to dunk them in a barrel of eels?

In the old days, women would be expected to wait for the guy to propose to her, after spending a few thousand of dollars on a diamond ring. Ever since the women for equality movement, this haven't changed much. Sure here and there women are proposing to their guys, but they're still a small small small minority. I would like to see an increase in this number! I say women should start going out and buying their guys a ring that cost a few thousand, and proposing to him! It sure as hell would take the pressure off us guys! What do yall think? I wouldn't mind if Liz proposed to me.
I think it is crazy talk.
What type of message would we be sending?

...I think it is because you are... a pervert
*biatch-slap*
Doesn't seem like a valid argument. But thanks for the input...:upyours:

:D

...I think it is because you are... a pervert
*biatch-slap*
hey now dont be hard on cyber

he thinks i'm gorgeous :D

I can prove I'm sane: NHS said so. Can you? :fluffle:

I dont want to prove i'm sane, i'm having too much fun :fluffle:

hey now dont be hard on cyber

he thinks i'm gorgeous :D
Yeah. What she said.

Fair enough. But let's say, for the sake of argument, that the person proposing is somebody who you would seriously consider marrying. Is there a way they could propose that would totally knock your socks off? Is there a way they could propose that would turn you off so completely that you wanted to dunk them in a barrel of eels?

True Story

I was doing the dishes, up to my elbows in suds, the boyfriend says 'Oh, that ring we got you for your 21st, stick it on the same finger on the hand will you? Marry Me?"

oh.. so.. romantic....

*fast forward 6 months*

I moved out :D

good to know?

:cool:
Good to know ;)

Fair enough. But let's say, for the sake of argument, that the person proposing is somebody who you would seriously consider marrying. Is there a way they could propose that would totally knock your socks off? Is there a way they could propose that would turn you off so completely that you wanted to dunk them in a barrel of eels?


I... doubt it. If I were to consider marrying ( or any other form of perming ) for real, the content of the proposal, and not it's spin, is what I would consider.

Yeah - coldcallers, pollsters, and politicians consider me a hard case too :)

Hookay - I might ignore proposals where I felt that the presentation was so bad that I'd stop listening after the first phrase.

I... doubt it. If I were to consider marrying ( or any other form of perming ) for real, the content of the proposal, and not it's spin, is what I would consider.

Yeah - coldcallers, pollsters, and politicians consider me a hard case too :)

Hookay - I might ignore proposals where I felt that the presentation was so bad that I'd stop listening after the first phrase.

You are one tough nut.. but I'm sure someone could crack ya

I... doubt it. If I were to consider marrying ( or any other form of perming ) for real, the content of the proposal, and not it's spin, is what I would consider.

Yeah - coldcallers, pollsters, and politicians consider me a hard case too :)

Hookay - I might ignore proposals where I felt that the presentation was so bad that I'd stop listening after the first phrase.
Fair enough. I can't very well whine about your answer, when mine is pretty much equally annoying to most people. :)

Wow. I don't really know where this conversation has gotten to, but for me, if a woman proposed to me, I would be fairly insulted or laugh at her. Just doesn't feel right.
With that kind of attitude, you'll die an old maid.

;)

Ah... but who has the right nut-cracker? :eek:

Get up, stand tall
Put your back up against the wall
'Cause my love is dangerous
This is a bust

You think you can have my love for free
Well I've got news for you, that's not the way it's gonna be
So don't come hangin' round my door
If you're not ready to give, you're not gonna get much more

I don't want to live out your fantasy
Love's not that easy
This time you're gonna, gonna have to play my way
Come on make my day

My Rules

If you want to marry me, here's what you'll have to do:
You must learn how to make a perfect chicken-dumpling stew.
And you must sew my holey socks,
And soothe my troubled mind,
And develop the knack for scratching my back,
And keep my shoes spotlessly shined.
And while I rest you must rake up the leaves,
And when it is hailing and snowing
You must shovel the walk... and be still when I talk,
And -- hey -- where are you going?

-Shel Silverstein

If my girlfriend asked me to marry her I'd probably look at her confusedly for a few seconds, then ask "What on earth for?".

If there were any big hoo-har made it'd either wind up with me in hysterical laughter, or acute embarrassment. Neither would be good, I feel.

Fortunately it's unlikely to happen with any girl with whom I'm even slightly close, as I'm not reticent on the subject.

I'm just not feeling poetic today...

*goes blogging to find her inspiration*

My Rules

If you want to marry me, here's what you'll have to do:
You must learn how to make a perfect chicken-dumpling stew.
And you must sew my holey socks,
And soothe my troubled mind,
And develop the knack for scratching my back,
And keep my shoes spotlessly shined.
And while I rest you must rake up the leaves,
And when it is hailing and snowing
You must shovel the walk... and be still when I talk,
And -- hey -- where are you going?

-Shel Silverstein


Incessant yabbering is the one thing which doesn't get forgiven.

Incessant yabbering is the one thing which doesn't get forgiven.

I yabber ... but it's funny weird make ya laugh kind of yabber

I yabber ... but it's funny weird make ya laugh kind of yabber
*goes guffawing* I suppose it does!

*goes guffawing* I suppose it does!

??? :confused:

Say, here's a question for the lads out there:

Assuming you are one of the fellows who would like to see women proposing more often, what kind of proposal would really win you over? (if any)
I don't object to it. Just depends on who proposed, really.

Two questions: 1) how long ago was that and 2) does he still have it?

That was about 6 months ago. And yes, he still has it, although he isn't playing it much lately. =)

That was about 6 months ago. And yes, he still has it, although he isn't playing it much lately. =)
Ah. Context. He doesn't have to play it much, just keep it. I don't play my favorite games as much as the others. They're special. I know some gamers who don't keep many games longer than a couple weeks, or maaayybe a month if they really like it.