NationStates Jolt Archive

After much study of the Torah, the Bible, and some of the Koran, I conclude and declare that Christianity, Judaism, and Islam are fallen.

The most prominent reason being the lack of Prophets and Priesthood Authority.

Amos 3:7 states

"Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets"

That's not to say that God couldn't act without letting His prophet know first, but simply that He doesn't.

Judaism (after the Prophet Malachi) went without a Prophet for four hundred years until John the Baptist. After John, they have been without prophets for 2000 years. Without Prophets, they lost the ability to have a direct channel of revelation and prophecy from God. Their religion was polluted with Greek tendencies (namely DEBATE) and has splintered into several factions, each interpereting the Torah after his own liking, without a prophet there to give the correct interperetation. And their Rabbis cannot agree on most things, and have conflicting and contradictory interperetations.

Christianity has been without Prophets and Apostles for 2000 years. Priesthood authority ceased with the apostles, as did the workings of miracles, prophecy, revelations, all of which are operated by the Priesthood.
Ephesians 4:11-12 states "And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: "

The organization of Christ's church must have Prophets and Apostles, otherwise, they have no one to recieve authority from God, no one to ordain priests and teachers and pastors. The Prostestant Churches and following churches have no authority from Heaven, but the authority of men. There was only ONE church for 500 years after Christ- the Catholic church. Most deny that they have authority to administer the sacraments, repentance, etc... And the Reformers, bless their souls, did not have a direct calling from God, and did not have the authority to set up a church under heavenly law, although they tried their best to correct the ills and wrongs that had creeped into Christianity. If Rome has authority through Peter, than the Protestant Churches can have no authority, for they left the Roman Church. If Rome had no authority to begin with, then all churches must then be false. Not one has authority from God recieved at the hands of Apostles or Prophets to recieve the Priesthood. Hebrews 5:4 states "No man taketh this honour (the priesthood) unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron."

Aaron recieved a direct calling from God and recieved authority under the hand of God's prophet Moses. If we have not a prophet or apostle whereby to ordain and recieve the revelation of the calling, then no one has authority to do anything, and we are all lost and wandering.

"But God can call people with out prophets, on His own" you may say. He COULD, but He DOESN'T, remeber Amos 3:7, God won't do anything til He lets His servant know. God does not change. He follows the same patterns. "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever." He does not change His ways.

Islam must have a prophet to recieve more revelation and instruction from God. God alone, through His prophet may declare a Jihad. Last I checked, Osama was NOT a prophet. Islam has no more prophets, hence, they cannot declare a Jihad, which several Islamic groups have done throughout past centuries.

We are all lost souls, without God's authority and without prophets. Not one church is true. Not until one can present prophets and/or apostles, with a direct call from heaven.



Other scriptures dealing with authority for Christians (and some for Jews)

Ex. 3: 12 ...I have sent thee.
Ex. 7: 2 ...speak all that I command thee.
2 Chr. 24: 19 ...he sent prophets to them.
Isa. 6: 8 ...whom shall I send.
Ezek. 2: 7 ...thou shalt speak my words.
Matt. 8: 9 ...I am a man under authority.
Matt. 10: 1 ...(Luke 9: 1) twelve disciples, he gave them power.
Matt. 21: 23 ...by what authority doest thou.
Mark 1: 22 ...taught them as one that had authority.
Mark 13: 34 ...gave authority to his servants.
Luke 19: 17 ...servant . . . have thou authority over ten.
Luke 22: 29 ...Father hath appointed unto me.
John 5: 27 ...authority to execute judgment.
John 5: 43 ...come in my Father’s name.
John 8: 28 ...I do nothing of myself, but as my Father.
John 15: 16 ...not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you.
John 20: 21 ...as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
Acts 13: 3 ...laid their hands on them, they sent them.
Acts 14: 23 ...ordained them elders in every church.



False Priesthoods

Ex. 7: 11 ...Pharaoh also called the wise men and the sorcerers: now the magicians.
1 Kgs. 12: 31 ...made priests of the lowest of the people.
2 Cor. 11: 13 ...false apostles . . . transforming themselves.
2 Thes. 2: 9 ...the working of Satan with all power and signs.
2 Pet. 2: 1 ...false prophets . . . false teachers . . . denying the Lord.
Rev. 13: 7 ...to make war with the saints . . . power was given him.



The Way to confer Priesthood Authority

Gen. 48: 17 father laid his right hand upon the head.
Ex. 29: 10 (Lev. 8: 14) sons shall put their hands upon the head.
Lev. 1: 4 put his hand upon the head of the burnt offering.
Lev. 16: 21 Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head.
Num. 27: 23 he laid his hands upon him, and gave him a charge.
Deut. 34: 9 Moses had laid his hands upon him.
Matt. 9: 18 (Mark 5: 23) come and lay thy hand upon her.
Matt. 19: 13 children, that he should put his hands on them.
Mark 6: 5 (Luke 4: 40; Morm. 9: 24; D&C 66: 9) he laid his hands upon a few sick folk.
Mark 7: 32 beseech him to put his hand upon him.
Mark 8: 23 spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him.
Mark 16: 18 they shall lay hands on the sick.
Luke 13: 13 he laid his hands on her . . . she was made straight.
Acts 6: 6 (Acts 8: 17) apostles . . . laid their hands on them.
Acts 9: 17 putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul.
Acts 13: 3 had fasted and prayed, and laid their hands.
Acts 28: 8 prayed, and laid his hands on him, and healed him.
1 Tim. 4: 14 gift . . . given . . . with the laying on of the hands.
1 Tim. 5: 22 Lay hands suddenly on no man.
2 Tim. 1: 6 gift of God, which is in thee by the putting on of my hands.
Heb. 6: 2 doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands.


Authority of Jesus Christ

Isa. 9: 6 government shall be upon his shoulder.
Jer. 23: 5 King shall reign . . . execute judgment and justice.
Dan. 7: 14 given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom.
Zech. 14: 9 Lord shall be king over all the earth.
Matt. 7: 29 (Mark 1: 22) he taught them as one having authority.
Matt. 9: 6 hath power on earth to forgive sins.
Matt. 21: 24 tell you by what authority I do these things.
Mark 1: 27 with authority commandeth he.
Mark 3: 14 he ordained twelve.
Luke 4: 32 (John 17: 2) his word was with power.
Luke 10: 22 All things are delivered to me of my Father.
John 1: 1 (John 1: 1-5, 14) Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 3: 35 Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
John 5: 22 (John 5: 27; Jude 1: 15) hath committed all judgment unto the Son.
John 5: 43 I am come in my Father’s name.
John 7: 16 My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
John 7: 29 (John 8: 29; John 17: 18; John 20: 21) I am come from him, and he hath sent me.
John 10: 18 (John 12: 49; John 14: 31) This commandment have I received of my Father.
Acts 4: 27 Jesus, whom thou hast anointed.
Acts 10: 42 (Acts 17: 31) he which was ordained of God.
Rom. 14: 9 Lord both of the dead and living.
Heb. 1: 2 spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed.
Heb. 5: 9 author of eternal salvation.
Heb. 5: 10 Called of God an high priest.
Heb. 7: 3 (Heb. 7: 24) Son of God, abideth a priest continually.
Heb. 8: 1 an high priest . . . on the right hand of the throne.
Heb. 12: 2 author and finisher of our faith.
1 Pet. 1: 20 foreordained before the foundation of the world.
Rev. 1: 1 8 I . . . have the keys of hell and of death.
Rev. 5: 12 Lamb that was slain to receive power.
Rev. 12: 10 kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ.
Rev. 19: 15 he shall rule them with a rod of iron.



Priesthood Authority

Ex. 18: 15 (1 Sam. 9: 9) people come unto me to enquire of God.
Ex. 28: 41 consecrate them . . . that they may minister unto me in the priest’s office.
Num. 1: 50 appoint the Levites over the tabernacle.
Num. 16: 5 him whom he hath chosen will he cause to come near unto him.
Num. 27: 23 (Deut. 34: 9) laid his hands upon him, and gave him a charge.
1 Sam. 2: 28 I choose him out of all the tribes of Israel.
1 Sam. 3: 20 Samuel was established to be a prophet.
2 Chr. 26: 18 It appertaineth not unto thee, Uzziah, to burn incense.
Hag. 1: 12 Haggai the prophet, as the Lord their God had sent him.
Matt. 16: 19 I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom.
Mark 3: 14 he ordained twelve.
Mark 11: 28 By what authority doest thou these things.
Luke 9: 1 gave them power and authority over all devils.
Luke 10: 1 Lord appointed other seventy.
John 15: 16 I have chosen you, and ordained you.
Acts 6: 6 (Acts 8: 18; Acts 13: 3; 1 Tim. 4: 14) apostles . . . laid their hands on them.
Acts 10: 42 testify that it is he which was ordained of God.
Gal. 1: 1 Paul, an apostle (not . . . by man, but by Jesus Christ).
Titus 1: 5 ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed.
Heb. 5: 4 he that is called of God, as was Aaron.


Priesthood Ordination

Ex. 40: 15 their anointing shall . . . be an everlasting priesthood.
Lev. 8: 12 poured of the anointing oil upon Aaron’s head.
Num. 27: 23 laid his hands upon him, and gave him a charge.
Deut. 34: 9 Moses had laid his hands upon him.
1 Chr. 9: 22 whom David and Samuel . . . did ordain in their set office.
Jer. 1: 5 I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
Mark 3: 14 he ordained twelve.
John 15: 16 I have chosen you, and ordained you.
Acts 13: 3 fasted and prayed, and laid their hands.
Acts 14: 23 ordained them elders in every church.
1 Tim. 4: 14 with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.
Titus 1: 5 ordain elders in every city.


Qualifying for Priesthood

Ezra 2: 62 (Neh. 7: 64) genealogy . . . not found: therefore were they, as polluted, put from the priesthood.
Ezra 7: 10 Ezra had prepared his heart to seek the law.
Isa. 52: 11 be ye clean, that bear the vessels of the Lord.
Acts 6: 3 look ye out among you seven men of honest report.
2 Cor. 4: 2 renounced . . . dishonesty, not walking in craftiness.
1 Tim. 3: 2 bishop then must be blameless.
1 Tim. 4: 12 be thou an example of the believers.
2 Tim. 2: 21 If a man purge himself.
Heb. 5: 4 called of God, as was Aaron.

Riveting.

Anyone can stand up and say "God has sent me as a prophet", and many will believe.

thats not true - God told me so herself.

Anyone can stand up and say "God has sent me as a prophet", and many will believe.

It depends on the manner of his calling. If it fits with the scriptures, then he is a prophet. If not he is false. And generally, if he's lying about recieving it the proper way (and truthfully has not), his works or manner is usually contrary to God's word, and God will usually give him a downfall.

thats not true - God told me so herself.

Oh, a prophet(ess) are we?

Anyone can stand up and say "God has sent me as a prophet", and many will believe.
Technically, for Christians, no prophets come after.

Revelations 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book.

... and?

Jews have been saying this for centuries ... why does nobody listen?

Yeesh ... read Talmud, ffs!

It depends on the manner of his calling. If it fits with the scriptures, then he is a prophet. If not he is false. And generally, if he's lying about recieving it the proper way (and truthfully has not), his works or manner is usually contrary to God's word, and God will usually give him a downfall.

Well this person would then first skew the scriptures to his advantage. Then say "lookie, the scriptures say I am a prophet."

Either way people will believe. Idiots that they are.

Technically, for Christians, no prophets come after.

Revelations 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book.

Did you know it says the same thing in the Old Testament. Well then, Christians should be most worthy of plagues then.

It's talking about that specific book- Revelation. The Catholic church almost didn't put it in the New Testament anyway.

Deut. 4: 2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command.

It depends on the manner of his calling. If it fits with the scriptures, then he is a prophet. If not he is false. And generally, if he's lying about recieving it the proper way (and truthfully has not), his works or manner is usually contrary to God's word, and God will usually give him a downfall.


Then obviously, Joseph Smith was not a prophet.

Either way people will believe. Idiots that they are.
Truth.

Religion is so political. People tend to begin with a conclusion. They then cut and paste a justification to suit. Kill homosexuals? Copy of the Bible please. Thaaank you...

:rolleyes:

Oh, a prophet(ess) are we?


right, but I need the profit or else I won't tell you what God is saying. First I will tell you what God thinks of capitalism, once I get $100 in my paypal account.

Then obviously, Joseph Smith was not a prophet.

Who's that?

Who's that?


LOL, stealth LDS?
Haven't encountered that before.

Please continue then.

LOL, stealth LDS?
Haven't encountered that before.

Please continue then.

Is that a compliment or an insult?

Did you know it says the same thing in the Old Testament. Well then, Christians should be most worthy of plagues then.

It's talking about that specific book- Revelation. The Catholic church almost didn't put it in the New Testament anyway.

Deut. 4: 2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command.

See? I told you the Bible was TRUE!

We're all up to our asses in problems because someone keeps extending the books!

Is that a compliment or an insult?


Just an observation.
If you dislike LDS for some reason, I guess it could be taken as an insult, or a compliment if you admire them.

See? I told you the Bible was TRUE!

We're all up to our asses in problems because someone keeps extending the books!

That could very well be true. But the Jews are in no better predicament with unity and authority than Christianity currently is.

Just an observation.
If you dislike LDS for some reason, I guess it could be taken as an insult, or a compliment if you admire them.

Ahhh....

Then obviously, Joseph Smith was not a prophet.
Dumbdadumbdumbdumb!

smarts-smartsmartsmart!

Who's that?
Y'know, Mormons, Ohio, Brigham Young, Hawaii, Utah, Naked, Wives, New Book,

all that jazz ring a bell?

Y'know, Mormons, Ohio, Brigham Young, Hawaii, Utah, Naked, Wives, New Book,

all that jazz ring a bell?

Utah and Wives do. Book, sorta. The rest, no, not really. The wierd people with many wives that live in Utah and have horns on their heads? Yeah, I heard something about 'em.

Utah and Wives do. Book, sorta. The rest, no, not really. The wierd people with many wives that live in Utah and have horns on their heads? Yeah, I heard something about 'em.


Yes, LDS have endured a fair amount of persecution for having different beliefs, but seriously, if you want to present the LDS position on it's own merit without drawing the standard fire, at least drop the buzz words. Denying knowledge of the LDS when you are clearly a member and versed in their doctrine is a might bit silly.

Yes, LDS have endured a fair amount of persecution for having different beliefs, but seriously, if you want to present the LDS position on it's own merit without drawing the standard fire, at least drop the buzz words. Denying knowledge of the LDS when you are clearly a member and versed in their doctrine is a might bit silly.

Buzz words?

Niaman, some of the parallel citations within your original post reference Mormon scripture, among others:

--The Book of Mormon ("Morm 9:24")
--The Doctrine and Covenants ("D&C 66:9")
--The Second Book of Nephi (a section within the Book of Mormon--"2 Ne. 19:6")
--The Book of Alma (another subsection within the Book of Mormon--"Alma 5: 50")
--The Doctrine and Covenants (again): "D&C 11:11"
--The Book of Ether (another subsection within the Book of Mormon--"Ether 3:14")
--The Third Book of Nephi (another subsection in the Book of Mormon--"3 Ne. 20: 41")

Fine. Have it your way. How would you three know?

This isn't for the purpose of converting anybody. And I tried to keep "additional" scripture out of this, keeping it to the Bible.

I'm sick of joining any debate remotely religious only to have people (upon learning my affiliation) laughed off the stage, whereas some one else says the same thing, or something dumber, and it's given a square chance.

Buzz words?


Well, apostasy in the title is a dead give away to anyone that is familiar with LDS.

Then the emphasis on a living prophet at all times, the qualifications for various priesthoods and authority, all very LDS.

Judaism (after the Prophet Malachi) went without a Prophet for four hundred years until John the Baptist.

John the baptist, is not a biblical prophet in Judaism. Though, he was Jewish, he lived long after the Torah was written and is actually featured in the Christian bible.

After John, they have been without prophets for 2000 years.

That, of course, is debatable. There is no known evidence of any, but how would there be? No recent prophet would be in the bible, because that was written (written as opposed to oral tradition) nearly 3,000 years ago.

Their religion was polluted with Greek tendencies (namely DEBATE)

How true. But don't pretend you don't like it. ;)

...and has splintered into several factions, each interpereting the Torah after his own liking, without a prophet there to give the correct interperetation. And their Rabbis (who have not the Priesthood of Melchizedek or the Levitical Priesthood) cannot agree on most things, and have conflicting and contradictory interperetations.

Of course they can't agree! One of the most essential pieces of democracy is that there be opposing viewpoints. If all Jews used identicle interpretations, first of all, we'd be a religion full of relious radicals and fanatics, and, second of all, we would be one of those religions that denies every new science that comes along and keeps saying that G-d is going to smite Denver (like Pat Robertson does). See, the way even very religious Jews stay at the forefront of sciecne (menaing: we don't deny evolution and all that stuff) is that: If a new science that seems to disagree with the Torah is proven to be true, then clearly for both to be true, one must have been misinterpretted. Since, the straight facts that science provides are very difficult to misinterpret, then we must have misinterpretted the Torah. Only the Orthodox and Chasidics interpret things litterally. The rest of us assume that we either misinterpretted, the biblical portion in question was a metaphor, or things were simply lost in the oral tradition phase.

Fine. Have it your way. How would you three know?

This isn't for the purpose of converting anybody. And I tried to keep "additional" scripture out of this, keeping it to the Bible.

I'm sick of joining any debate remotely religious only to have people (upon learning my affiliation) laughed off the stage, whereas some one else says the same thing, or something dumber, and it's given a square chance.


I have a very healthy amount of respect for LDS people and the community they have built and how their faith is worked out in their lives and families.

That being said, I have an impossible task of suspension of disbelief to accept the founders and the origins of the LDS church.

I have a very healthy amount of respect for LDS people and the community they have built and how their faith is worked out in their lives and families.

That being said, I have an impossible task of suspension of disbelief to accept the founders and the origins of the LDS church.

Point taken. I would just rather keep my affiliation out of this, for purposes of debate.

Of course they can't agree! One of the most essential pieces of democracy is that there be opposing viewpoints. If all Jews used identicle interpretations, first of all, we'd be a religion full of relious radicals and fanatics, and, second of all, we would be one of those religions that denies every new science that comes along and keeps saying that G-d is going to smite Denver (like Pat Robertson does). See, the way even very religious Jews stay at the forefront of sciecne (menaing: we don't deny evolution and all that stuff) is that: If a new science that seems to disagree with the Torah is proven to be true, then clearly for both to be true, one must have been misinterpretted. Since, the straight facts that science provides are very difficult to misinterpret, then we must have misinterpretted the Torah. Only the Orthodox and Chasidics interpret things litterally. The rest of us assume that we either misinterpretted, the biblical portion in question was a metaphor, or things were simply lost in the oral tradition phase.

Religion is meant nor supposed to be democratic. It's supposed to be God says this and that's that. Not democracy. It isn't a republic we're talking about, where that is most appropriate.

Fine. Have it your way. How would you three know?

This isn't for the purpose of converting anybody. And I tried to keep "additional" scripture out of this, keeping it to the Bible.

I'm sick of joining any debate remotely religious only to have people (upon learning my affiliation) laughed off the stage, whereas some one else says the same thing, or something dumber, and it's given a square chance.

FWIW, Niaman, I'm a practicing Mormon, and I whole-heartedly agree with most of the points you made regarding priesthood, etc. Beyond that, though, I really don't care to engage in a discussion on the topic at present.

I will point out that while one can complain about the fair treatment--or lack thereof--that Mormons might get in various fora, a lot of Mormons don't really help their cause much when they act like they have something to hide. Better to be straightforward about the way we see things, and let the chips fall where they may. :)

FWIW, Niaman, I'm a practicing Mormon, and I whole-heartedly agree with most of the points you made regarding priesthood, etc. Beyond that, though, I really don't care to engage in a discussion on the topic at present.

I will point out that while one can complain about the fair treatment--or lack thereof--that Mormons might get in various fora, a lot of Mormons don't really help their cause much when they act like they have something to hide. Better to be straightforward about the way we see things, and let the chips fall where they may. :)

I knew you knew too much not be one...:D

Point taken. I would just rather keep my affiliation out of this, for purposes of debate.


OK, well then, your main thrust appears to be that the mainline Abrahamic faiths are lost because of a a lack of a prophet and proper priestly authority?
Yes?

First, I'd say you're hanging a great deal off of Amos. I have trouble seeing the literalness with it that you do. If we accept your interpretation, then God cannot take ANY action if there is not a prophet to first reveal it to.
Since we know there long periods of time when there is no known or recognised "prophet" that would imply long spans of time when God is handcuffed into non-action.

So, I would think it is more likely that when there is a prophet, we can expect that the prophet will have the inside track from God as to what His plans are. This is still consistent with Amos.

Prophets rarely if ever were involved in the religious organizations of their day, more often than not, they were the "voice in the wilderness" calling out the false practices even among the elect. They also often suffered for their calling.

Your vision of a prophet and his/her role seems at odds with the picture that scripture relates.

As for Priestly authority, christianity teaches that Jesus is the High Priest and that we are all a royal priesthood that follow Him. Therefore, we no longer need a priest to bring us or our sacrifice into the presence of God, we can each walk in that ourselves.

So, if the major faiths are guilty of apostasy, and I certainly don't excuse them of it, I don't believe it for the LDS reasons of a lack of authority that you present.

Actually, our very own Ilie is a Jewish prophet. Just you wait and see!

Actually, our very own Ilie is a Jewish prophet. Just you wait and see!

Right....

Right....

Nonbelievers shall be visited by the Tickle Beast(pat. pend).

Nonbelievers shall be visited by the Tickle Beast(pat. pend).

Say what?....

OH NO!!!!! NO! DON'T TICKLE ME!!!! AAAAUUUGGGGHHH!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!! I'M HAHA BEING HAHA ATTACKED HAHA!!!! :D

Snow Eaters, may I ask as to why you doubt the early leaders of the LDS church? Also, a Book of Mormon verse says "... wherefore dispute not because ye see not for you recieve no witness until after the trial of your faith." God will not work miracles and such unless there is faith, and when there is faith among a group of people, there is likely going to be a prophet. He will always tell a prophet of what he is going to do, just like the scripture says. Also, it is LDS belief that after all of the apostles died, there became an apostasty upon the earth because there was no authority.

I think you made the Islam portion up on no evidence at all.

Snow Eaters, may I ask as to why you doubt the early leaders of the LDS church?

Not to put too fine a point on it, the Joseph Smith story is wacky, and doesn't in any fashion line up with scripture nor does it in any way witness to my spirit as my LDS friends have asked me to consider it.


Also, a Book of Mormon verse says "... wherefore dispute not because ye see not for you recieve no witness until after the trial of your faith."

First rule of sharing your faith with anyone, never quote something to them from a source whewre you have no agreement whatsoever as to its authority.
The Book of Mormon can say whatever it wishes, I personally hold it in no regard.
And while you're quoting it to me, why is it that a book allegedly written in ancient North America and translated in early modern North America is in King James English??


God will not work miracles and such unless there is faith, and when there is faith among a group of people, there is likely going to be a prophet.

Likely?
So, is this a hard and fast rule or not?


He will always tell a prophet of what he is going to do, just like the scripture says.

Always? Or likely?
Just because God can and will tell a prophet in advance of His plans doesn't obligate God to do so in every instance. Otherwise, He couldn't even raise up a prophet in the first place, because there would not yet be a prophet to tell that He's going to raise up a prophet.


Also, it is LDS belief that after all of the apostles died, there became an apostasty upon the earth because there was no authority.

And if there was no authority, then there was no way for Joseph Smith to recieve the authority.
But if Joseph Smith is purportedly able to receive authority when there is only Apostasy then there is no grounds for him to claim it exclusively.

Actually, our very own Ilie is a Jewish prophet. Just you wait and see!

It's true, bitches! Fear my wrath!

It's true, bitches! Fear my wrath!


If I had known who you are, would this have been funny?

If I had known who you are, would this have been funny?

Actually no, it was completely random. Keruvalia just threw out my name because 1) he knows I am Jewish, as he is, and 2) he wants to do me with spurs on.

Actually no, it was completely random. Keruvalia just threw out my name because 1) he knows I am Jewish, as he is, and 2) he wants to do me with spurs on.


Ahhh, OK, how did you even find it? The thread was buried by now?

And, err, who wears the spurs in this relationship???