NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=134816

FRAMINGHAM -- Fearing their wireless freedom may be in jeopardy, students at Framingham High School were fuming over a new school policy that allows administrators to seize cell phones and search their contents.



What do you all think of this? Personally in high school for me cell phones were flat not allowed to be on simple as that (and for good reason it was disruptive of the learning process)

My argument is not about being able to use cell phones, but with this rule administrators can seize even off cell phone and search the contents. Personally I find this needless invasion of their privacy.

I'm thoroughly unconcerned about the digital privacy of someone who ain't old enough to vote.

I'm thoroughly unconcerned about the digital privacy of someone who ain't old enough to vote.

Agreed

I'm thoroughly unconcerned about the digital privacy of someone who ain't old enough to vote.
Ahhh so they should not be able to have privacy as they are guilty of being young, got it

shouldn't have phones anyway, disrupts from the learning like you said. I don't pay $3000 a semester so I can listen to the girl next to me make lunch plans with her friend or so I can hear the a Peter Griffin ring tone from the moron in the back.

But as for being able to search cell phones, that is an invasion of privacy. Shouldn't matter though, shoudln't be there.

What are they going to find on a student's cell phone? Thousands of text messages sent back and forth between adolescent girls saying "OMG HES SO HOTT!!!!11!!!!"

What are they going to find on a student's cell phone? Thousands of text messages sent back and forth between adolescent girls saying "OMG HES SO HOTT!!!!11!!!!"
Lol agreed that is the most likly

they're not police, they dont have a warrant, they dont have the law beind them, they are taking private property.

unless this is a new rule that they can seize and search, this is an invasion of privacy.

but if the school makes it a rule or somesuch like that, you cant protest it.

If you don't want it searched, don't take it to school. Shit, I didn't even carry a fucking wallet. It's THEIR building.....the lockers, everything. Leave your phone at home, or leave it in your car and park off campus. THEN you've got your privacy.........

Ahhh so they should not be able to have privacy as they are guilty of being young, got it

Just another extension of the "It doesn't affect me, so why should I care?" phenomenon.

I'm thoroughly unconcerned about the digital privacy of someone who ain't old enough to vote.

I think what he meant is that he's unconerned on weather they're phones are kept private or not

I can understand them being confiscated for exams and test and god knows what, but random checking? ... 1984 here we come

I always brought my cell phone to school. That way in an emergency my parents could reach me, or i could reach them.

I understand searching the contents of the phone, to ensure that they were not sending text messages during a test, that sort of thing. But the problem is there is no way to look exclusively for that, and not see personal information. All in all, yes seems like an invasion of privacy. Instead, they should have a policy that if the phone is taken immediately before, during, or immediately after a teset, the administration may search the contents, to establish if the student was cheating. Otherwise, its an invasion of privacy.

Ahhh so they should not be able to have privacy as they are guilty of being young, got it

We'' treat 'em legally responsible for their own actions once they are legally responsible for their own actions.
Till that time...
Loco parentis ain't latin for the right to be a crazy parent.

I think students should not be allowed to have cell phones on in classes. Out of classes, okay. I also think that a student's cell phone should be able to be searched if they are using it during a test. For example, the idiot in my bio class who was obviously texting in the middle of a test, take a guess what the texts were about?

If the student is being stupid about the cell phone, they deserve to have it searched.

I have no problem with them taking the phone, I do have a problem with them searching the call history. They have no reason to do that.

Take the phone, put it somewhere safe, return it to the kid later.

We'' treat 'em legally responsible for their own actions once they are legally responsible for their own actions.
and when is that, circular logic boy?

and when is that, circular logic boy?


Not one day before their 18th birthday.

except kids can be tried as adults if the prosecution can show they fully understood their actions. .

they're not police, they dont have a warrant, they dont have the law beind them, they are taking private property.

unless this is a new rule that they can seize and search, this is an invasion of privacy.

but if the school makes it a rule or somesuch like that, you cant protest it.

Not really a new rule: New Jersey v. T.L.O.
469 U.S. 325 (1985)
Docket Number: 83-712
Abstract
Argued:March 28, 1984
Reargued: October 2, 1984
Decided: January 15, 1985

Subjects:Civil Rights: Juveniles
Facts of the Case

T.L.O. was a fourteen-year-old; she was accused of smoking in the girls' bathroom of her high school. A principal at the school questioned her and searched her purse, yielding a bag of marijuana and other drug paraphernalia.
Question Presented

Did the search violate the Fourth and Fourteenth Amendments?
Conclusion

No. Citing the peculiarities associated with searches on school grounds, the Court abandoned its requirement that searches be conducted only when a "probable cause" exists that an individual has violated the law. The Court used a less strict standard of "reasonableness" to conclude that the search did not violate the Constitution. The presence of rolling papers in the purse gave rise to a reasonable suspicion in the principal's mind that T.L.O. may have been carrying drugs, thus, justifying a more thorough search of the purse. Source:http://www.oyez.org/oyez/resource/case/275/

Presence of a cell phone could cause reasonable suspicion, especially if found during a test, justifying a search of the phone. Not a huge leap, except that possession of drugs is a criminal offense, whereas cheating is not.

If you don't want it searched, don't take it to school. Shit, I didn't even carry a fucking wallet. It's THEIR building.....the lockers, everything. Leave your phone at home, or leave it in your car and park off campus. THEN you've got your privacy.........
not good enough. I brought my purse to school, I didn't bring anything "against the rules" and still I was searched every single day, they didn't have probable cause or even reasonable suspicion, they just searched me. It was in violation of my 4th amendment rights (according to the ACLU who helped me out quite a bit) like I said if the kid is stupid enough to get caught with something against the rules (or even stupid enough to bring it) the school has full rights under school policy to take it away from them, but NOT the right to search it.

yeh, phone's are annoying - it doesn't take much to turn the ringer off. personally i always took my phone into school and back when text messages were free i used to spend lesson time texting under the table and i still managed to get to a good uni so i don't think having them in school necessarily disrupts the learning process. however, others were more flagrant in their breaching of school rules on mobile phones and deliberately kept their ring tones on full volume with the express intention of irritating people. such a rule as the one in this article would, i think, be an effective threat to stop this sort of behaviour but, if it was acted upon it would be a reprehensible breach of the right to privacy. confiscation is fine and the possibility of the phone being searched would probably be sufficient to stop people being deliberately disruptive.

you'd have to be a moron to get caught selling drugs in this way anyway. Are people listening their dealers in their phone as "person X - Drug dealer" or sending text messages saying "I will sell you a bag of marijuana for $50 next class" I mean seriously....all the teacher will know is that the person has friends that they talk to. .

Meh, I don't care much about this rule. Teachers are pussies. They've never taken my phone in highschool although they did want to. Just say screw em.

Presence of a cell phone could cause reasonable suspicion, especially if found during a test, justifying a search of the phone. Not a huge leap, except that possession of drugs is a criminal offense, whereas cheating is not.
good point. but reasonable suspicion could be used the wrong way, i.e., 'your cheating with that phone' and they find a photo of underage drinking. is that admissable/usable?

that begs the question: how do you define cheating? is it a criminal act under the law or in school?

good point. but reasonable suspicion could be used the wrong way, i.e., 'your cheating with that phone' and they find a photo of underage drinking. is that admissable/usable?

that begs the question: how do you define cheating? is it a criminal act under the law or in school?


I'm soooo glad you mention this!

One of my Pet Proposals for improving edu is making disciplinary infractions while in school part of a person's criminal record - and making criminal records freely available to employers and other reasonably interested parties.

you'd have to be a moron to get caught selling drugs in this way anyway. Are people listening their dealers in their phone as "person X - Drug dealer" or sending text messages saying "I will sell you a bag of marijuana for $50 next class" I mean seriously....all the teacher will know is that the person has friends that they talk to. .

It's not actually illegal to ask someone if they can get you some weed. I've done it before via. sms...what are they gonna do?

good point. but reasonable suspicion could be used the wrong way, i.e., 'your cheating with that phone' and they find a photo of underage drinking. is that admissable/usable?
depends...how good is your lawyer?

good point. but reasonable suspicion could be used the wrong way, i.e., 'your cheating with that phone' and they find a photo of underage drinking. is that admissable/usable?

that begs the question: how do you define cheating? is it a criminal act under the law or in school?
Personally, Id say no, a photo of underage drinking is not admissable, since if the teacher or principal was only interested in determining if the student was cheating, all he or she would have to do was check the text messaging log. Unless there are some state laws i dont know about (ok, there are loads of state laws I dont know about, but whatever) I'm pretty certain cheating is not a criminal act under the law. But it is cause for giving the student a 0 on the test, and perhaps even suspension or a failure for the class if the student repeatedly cheats.

I think this is a little overboard. And keep in mind this is only for high school students. It has nothing to do with colleges and universities. As long as the phones are off, then I don't see any reason for a search and seizure. That's excessive. For those tired of the idiot girl answering her phone in your college class, here's an idea. Take night courses. Most students who go to night classes are more serious about their education than the typical morning crew only interested in partying and their major in MRS.

It's not actually illegal to ask someone if they can get you some weed. I've done it before via. sms...what are they gonna do?


its illegal in the US. the smart people use code words here :)

I'm soooo glad you mention this!

One of my Pet Proposals for improving edu is making disciplinary infractions while in school part of a person's criminal record - and making criminal records freely available to employers and other reasonably interested parties.

I got an infraction for disruptive behavior - 9 points of my conduct grade. All I had done was respond to a jerk who was insulting me. No I didnt raise my hand, but neither had he. That in no way should affect my ability to find employment. Especially since I'm a very different person now then I was a freshman in highschool.

I'm soooo glad you mention this!

One of my Pet Proposals for improving edu is making disciplinary infractions while in school part of a person's criminal record - and making criminal records freely available to employers and other reasonably interested parties.
sorry, but that is moronic. as a kid you already have the crushing realisation that every piece of homework you do and every test you take is going to have an impact on how your future works out. if every hormonal emotional release went on a junior criminal record you'd have kids having break-downs all over the shop. not in any way conjusive to an effective learning environment.

http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=134816

What do you all think of this? Personally in high school for me cell phones were flat not allowed to be on simple as that (and for good reason it was disruptive of the learning process)

My argument is not about being able to use cell phones, but with this rule administrators can seize even off cell phone and search the contents. Personally I find this needless invasion of their privacy.

The reason we need to oppose this, is that we are on the crux of technological breakthrough, right now... being held back only by the big producers holding off on their products while the market can still be milked with the old tech.

Another few years - and those handheld computers may well be affordable enough that they become commonplace as calculators. The i-Pod is already a step in that direction.

So - the things is - such materials SHOULD be forbidden for use during examination, if the form of examination is such that it can be cheated on.

But - if my tiny portable computer of 10 years in the future, is confiscated before a test... is it RIGHT that random, un-warranted people should be allowed to look through the contents?

This is an abuse of power.

http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=134816





What do you all think of this? Personally in high school for me cell phones were flat not allowed to be on simple as that (and for good reason it was disruptive of the learning process)

My argument is not about being able to use cell phones, but with this rule administrators can seize even off cell phone and search the contents. Personally I find this needless invasion of their privacy.

Cells are not allowed in NYC public schools -- yet students flaut it openly and their parents go ballistic when they are confiscated and held until their parents come up to get them.

I'm soooo glad you mention this!

One of my Pet Proposals for improving edu is making disciplinary infractions while in school part of a person's criminal record - and making criminal records freely available to employers and other reasonably interested parties.
No fucking way there are NO legal checks and balances to what can go on your school record. You do not have the right to a trial or any other of a thousand things that comes with a criminal accusation.

All it takes is some pissy school admin to get an entry on your school record (and this comes from someone who never got in ANY trouble ever on school grounds)

sorry, but that is moronic. as a kid you already have the crushing realisation that every piece of homework you do and every test you take is going to have an impact on how your future works out. if every hormonal emotional release went on a junior criminal record you'd have kids having break-downs all over the shop. not in any way conjusive to an effective learning environment.


Bulldust.

I expect good results: obediency and docility will be improved.

Future employers will think twice about hiring someone who had a habit of back-talking.

Cells are not allowed in NYC public schools -- yet students flaut it openly and their parents go ballistic when they are confiscated and held until their parents come up to get them.
That I think is reasonable (them being heald) absolutly it can be disruptive as hell. But that is not the same thing as searching it...

No fucking way there are NO legal checks and balances to what can go on your school record. You do not have the right to a trial or any other of a thousand things that comes with a criminal accusation.

All it takes is some pissy school admin to get an entry on your school record (and this comes from someone who never got in ANY trouble ever on school grounds)


And we've got an example life here!

Someon who uses the F-word is not a good prospect, if you are looking for employees.

Back about seven years ago I was in Chemistry in high school. I had forgotten to take my pager out of my pocket before class, and nervously turned it off. In mid-lecture, my leg hit the desk, and the pager sounded alarm as it came back on. I refused to give my pager to my teacher (I had just paid $99 for it which was -a lot- in high school) and was sent to the principal. Upon stating my case in the calmest and most humble way I could and begging for him to let me put it in my car, I was told to give it to them or be expelled. He told me I could pick it up from the police department in about two weeks, because apparently they got to check all numbers for references to known drug dealers or ne'er-do-wells. It's seven years later, and I never got my pager back.
It was their right to take it from me because it disrupted the classroom.
It was school policy to submit it to the police department for examination (MAINLY AS A DETERRENT).
It was crossing the line when the police repeatedly talked down to me and blatantly said they didn't have my pager, and then the next week they did have it and I'd have to come back later, and then they didn't have it again. I was even told once that I couldn't have it back (although that was -not- the school policy and was against state law).

The rule that all student cell phones will be siezed and searched is a valid -deterrent- against kids using their cell phones in class. However, it must be carefully implemented and enforced as to not degrade the people it is targeting.

As for Mr. "I aint give a shit bout nobody cant vote"... I personally don't think the uneducated / ignorant / plain out stupid should be allowed to vote. Did you forget that they -will- be able to vote in, oh, one to three years? If children are made to feel completely powerless in school and forced into acceptance of a virtual dictatorship, what will keep them from accepting a dictatorship once they graduate? People have rights in this country regardless of their age or ability to vote.

Also, if you believe that people are not accountable for their actions one day before their 18th birthday, you have a f----d up sense of reality. Is there some magic barrier that is crossed on that day? Some packet of maturity mailed to their doorstep by the powers of the universe that mystically declares them fit to make their own decisions? That's almost too scary to be funny.

Meh, I don't care much about this rule. Teachers are pussies. They've never taken my phone in highschool although they did want to. Just say screw em.

And some students are shitheads.

And we've got an example life here!

Someon who uses the F-word is not a good prospect, if you are looking for employees.
Too bad I am the one that hires for my department …

Bulldust.

I expect good results: obediency and docility will be improved.

Future employers will think twice about hiring someone who had a habit of back-talking.

thats the dumbest thing I'v ever heard. Most good teachers don't have problems controlling their class, not to mention the fact that everyone talks back to their teachers in highschool and that should have no bearing whatsoever on your employment oppurtunities years down the line when you have matured.

And we've got an example life here!

Someon who uses the F-word is not a good prospect, if you are looking for employees.
Lol and someone with your views on personal data privacy would not make it a day in my field.

I may swear once and a while but you would be the one without a job

Bulldust.

I expect good results: obediency and docility will be improved.

Future employers will think twice about hiring someone who had a habit of back-talking.
actually i think someone who was not afraid of back talking would be a prime candidate for a high position within any organisation as long as they have the appropriate skills because it shows an independence of mind and a healthy scepticism of others' reasoning. i watched that 'equilibrium' film last night, the one with christian bale in it - from what you're saying it sounds like that dystopia would be your ideal society. which is a bit frightening to be honest. i hope you never find youself in a position of authority, especially over children.

And we've got an example life here!

Someon who uses the F-word is not a good prospect, if you are looking for employees.

Maybe. Unless, perhaps, you want to work for someplace like the ACLU, an the F-word is indicative of how passionately you feel privacy rights ought to be protected.

As for kids who have a habit of back talking, maybe they are just disrespectful. Or maybe they are the kind of person who questions everything, wants to know why things are the way they are, and doesnt just blindly follow the crowd. That is the kind of person I would want working for me. But there is often no way to tell which kind of person it is from school records.

Maybe. Unless, perhaps, you want to work for someplace like the ACLU, an the F-word is indicative of how passionately you feel privacy rights ought to be protected.

As for kids who have a habit of back talking, maybe they are just disrespectful. Or maybe they are the kind of person who questions everything, wants to know why things are the way they are, and doesnt just blindly follow the crowd. That is the kind of person I would want working for me. But there is often no way to tell which kind of person it is from school records.
Those are exactly the sort of people I look at in hiring especially when we need a few out of the box thinkers.

Just hired one guy like that and he has turned out to be an amazing find, I have never found someone that was so fluent in windows scripting and the ability to interface with an LDAP and Exchange server without any real rights

Who says all the content of the cell phone belongs to the child posessing the phone? Im fine with them seizing the phones. Im not with them searching the contents.

Bogmarsh also believes that every practitioner of islam stones women, according to his/her profile. But, that's ad-hominem and detracts from the argument.

How can you argue that:

1: they become accountable only when 18.

2: what they do in high school should affect their criminal record.


those two statements directly contradict each other my friend.

Too bad I am the one that hires for my department …

As if someone's 'offduty' language has anything to do with how professional they are on the job, anyway...

Who says all the content of the cell phone belongs to the child posessing the phone? Im fine with them seizing the phones. Im not with them searching the contents.

Which makes me think of another risk.

Since we are somehow assuming that children don't have the 'right' to own their cellphones, and certainly no 'right' to the data within... should it not be considered that OTHER people may feel the same way... and that anything FOUND on a cellphone might NOT be a matter of what the possessing child has said/done?

Bogmarsh also believes that every practitioner of islam stones women, according to his/her profile. But, that's ad-hominem and detracts from the argument.

How can you argue that:

1: they become accountable only when 18.

2: what they do in high school should affect their criminal record.


those two statements directly contradict each other my friend.
ZING! :D

Its actually a breach of human rights - as designated in the UN treaty on the rights of a child - but (and I'm making an assumption here - is this school in America? - correct me if I'm wrong) America is one of only 3 countries on the planet not to have signed that treaty so theres not much you can really do:rolleyes: such is life - Orwell here we come.

Ahhh so they should not be able to have privacy as they are guilty of being young, got it

And when they get older they will appreciate the laws protecting their privacy far more, since they know what life is like without them.

I think if the kid uses the cellphone in class, it should be confiscated and the parent called. However, it should not be searched without a very good reason. Forget the kid's rights. Chances are, the phone would have some of the parent's numbers on it, and anyone who invades their privacy should have to answer for it.

And when they get older they will appreciate the laws protecting their privacy far more, since they know what life is like without them.
I did not have my privacy invaded by the school like this when I was in highschool yet I seem to appreciate it enough o fight for my right to privacy

argh.

Students should not be allowed mobiles in schools. Nor should teachers/faculty be allowed to access them. But is that not the point of passwords, etc.?

Just go over them with a powerful magnet when they come into the school, should bugger up the phones. That will stop them bringing them in!:D

And some students are shitheads.
Why should my phone be taken away if it doesn't ring, not even turned on for that matter? When they tried to take it away, I told them to stuff it and rightly so in my opinion.

And when they get older they will appreciate the laws protecting their privacy far more, since they know what life is like without them.
I demand we force people into slavery for 5 years before they are allowed to excercise any of their freedoms, that way they will know what real freedom is.
Could your argument get any more asinine or are you just a joke account?

argh.

Students should not be allowed mobiles in schools. Nor should teachers/faculty be allowed to access them. But is that not the point of passwords, etc.?

Just go over them with a powerful magnet when they come into the school, should bugger up the phones. That will stop them bringing them in!:D
Sense when do cell phones use magnetic storage? Somehow doubt magnets do anything to a cell phone I have had no problems working next to large transformers before

http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=134816





What do you all think of this? Personally in high school for me cell phones were flat not allowed to be on simple as that (and for good reason it was disruptive of the learning process)

My argument is not about being able to use cell phones, but with this rule administrators can seize even off cell phone and search the contents. Personally I find this needless invasion of their privacy.

I am curious as to what motive teachers would have and/or need to search pupil's mobile phones. Having said that, these things shouldn't be allowed in school anyway. As many of you have pointed out, they are distruptive.

Sense when do cell phones use magnetic storage? Somehow doubt magnets do anything to a cell phone I have had no problems working next to large transformers before
Not to mention getting a magnet strong enough to whipe current items with magnetic storage like that would be a pain in the ass.

Not to mention getting a magnet strong enough to whipe current items with magnetic storage like that would be a pain in the ass.
Like I said some really big transformers I have been around before and not an issue in the world. And these are big enough you got to watch what you are wearing. Piercings while not ripped out can become painful.

When I was in high school, cell phones were too expensive and too big to be commonly carried.

I do remember a substitute teacher trying to confiscate the pager of one student though (the pager was bigger than a pack of cigarrettes). The student was a volunteer firefighter, and the pager going off meant he had a fire call (it was pre-arranged with the school administration that he could leave school to participate in his firefighting duties). Needless to say, that substitute teacher learned real quick that it was acceptable for that one student to have a pager, and have it on during class.

When I was in high school, cell phones were too expensive and too big to be commonly carried.

I do remember a substitute teacher trying to confiscate the pager of one student though (the pager was bigger than a pack of cigarrettes). The student was a volunteer firefighter, and the pager going off meant he had a fire call (it was pre-arranged with the school administration that he could leave school to participate in his firefighting duties). Needless to say, that substitute teacher learned real quick that it was acceptable for that one student to have a pager, and have it on during class.
Know that feeling … I joined after high school but spent a few years on the volunteer department before I moved back out of town and it became impractical for me to help them

Since when do cell phones use magnetic storage? Somehow doubt magnets do anything to a cell phone I have had no problems working next to large transformers before

[/grammar nazi]

Know that feeling … I joined after high school but spent a few years on the volunteer department before I moved back out of town and it became impractical for me to help them

I remember whenever that pager went off, the class became deathly quiet (no matter what was going on). The funny thing is, one time the call came in for a car fire at the school. Class pretty much stopped, and we all watched the car burn (it was a Fiero that belonged to another of my classmates, and we had a good view of the parking lot from the classroom).

I remember whenever that pager went off, the class became deathly quiet (no matter what was going on). The funny thing is, one time the call came in for a car fire at the school. Class pretty much stopped, and we all watched the car burn (it was a Fiero that belonged to another of my classmates, and we had a good view of the parking lot from the classroom).
My problem was in collage my pager/radio does a time test at 6:00 pm for the area every day lol

http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=134816

What do you all think of this? Personally in high school for me cell phones were flat not allowed to be on simple as that (and for good reason it was disruptive of the learning process)

My argument is not about being able to use cell phones, but with this rule administrators can seize even off cell phone and search the contents. Personally I find this needless invasion of their privacy.

Most phones today run around in promiscuous mode for Bluetooth.

I have a small app that scans the immediate vicinity for such phones and sucks the phone lists, call history and text messages out of them.

Very useful.

My problem was in collage my pager/radio does a time test at 6:00 pm for the area every day lol

Ah, that'd surely make things interesting in class. :)

Most phones today run around in promiscuous mode for Bluetooth.

I have a small app that scans the immediate vicinity for such phones and sucks the phone lists, call history and text messages out of them.

Very useful.
You sure “most” my cell is not by default

Ever sense that stupid senate debacle Bluetooth issue they have been fairly good on any phone I have got my hands on

You sure “most” my cell is not by default

Ever sense that stupid senate debacle Bluetooth issue they have been fairly good on any phone I have got my hands on
I can still get on the Metro here in DC, and in any crowded station, pick up and dump 30 to 50 cell phones in about a minute.

Most people turn them to promiscuous without knowing it, just to get a device to work (like a wireless headset).

Most phones today run around in promiscuous mode for Bluetooth.

I have a small app that scans the immediate vicinity for such phones and sucks the phone lists, call history and text messages out of them.

Very useful.

Waitaminute. What the hell is 'Promiscuous Mode'? Why do I smell another 'Tramp Stamp' thing here?

Waitaminute. What the hell is 'Promiscuous Mode'? Why do I smell another 'Tramp Stamp' thing here?

It's when you allow a Bluetooth device to communicate freely with other Bluetooth devices.

Often used to discover other Bluetooth devices in your vicinity, so you can "install" them.

Most phones today run around in promiscuous mode for Bluetooth.

I have a small app that scans the immediate vicinity for such phones and sucks the phone lists, call history and text messages out of them.

Very useful.
Smells like invasion of privacy, why am I not surprised?

I think what he meant is that he's unconerned on weather they're phones are kept private or not

They are phones??? I thought they were human beings! And what does the weather have to do with this?

/nitpick

I can still get on the Metro here in DC, and in any crowded station, pick up and dump 30 to 50 cell phones in about a minute.


Is that even legal?

It's when you allow a Bluetooth device to communicate freely with other Bluetooth devices.

Often used to discover other Bluetooth devices in your vicinity, so you can "install" them.

Really? It's labelled 'Promiscuous Mode' then, is it?

Is that even legal?

Probably, but if not still A) Highly Dubious and B) Not unexpected from DK.

Really? It's labelled 'Promiscuous Mode' then, is it?
Yeah it is the term generically given for an active device in a listening state.

Can be used to describe wired connection devices too such as an Ethernet card in promiscuous mode sits and listens to all traffic that gets sent to it rather then just the signals intended for that device


What the onboard labling system is I dont know but that is an acurate describing term

Yeah it is the term generically given for an active device in a listening state.

Can be used to describe wired connection devices too such as an Ethernet card in promiscuous mode sits and listens to all traffic that gets sent to it rather then just the signals intended for that device


What the onboard labling system is I dont know but that is an acurate describing term

Yeah. I'm not liking that really. Sounds kinda stupid, and has odd connotations.

Is that even legal?
Who cares? Second ammendment, second ammendment!

Yeah. I'm not liking that really. Sounds kinda stupid, and has odd connotations.
Well you get to train the last 20 years of techs that use this term, and indiscriminant is used to discribe other features

they are just using the dictionary deffinition really

argh.

Students should not be allowed mobiles in schools. Nor should teachers/faculty be allowed to access them. But is that not the point of passwords, etc.?

Just go over them with a powerful magnet when they come into the school, should bugger up the phones. That will stop them bringing them in!:D

I bring my cell phone in case I miss the bus or if I have to stay late unexpectedly to get help for something I didn't understand in class. Without the phone, I'd have a hard time getting through to my mom to get a ride. Other than that and checking the time, I don't use it during school. So why is that such a problem? It's not used during class time, only in between in the halls, or during my lunch period.

Probably, but if not still A) Highly Dubious and B) Not unexpected from DK.

It's legal if the phone is is promiscuous mode. As long as I don't route a phone call through the other person's phone.

My girlfriend is currently teaching at a summer camp for gifted youth (aged approx. 12-16), and cell phones are strictly not allowed in class rooms. The official policy is that instructors may seize the phone and keep it until the end of the three-week program.

Just the other day, a student was caught using her cell-phone... and the instructor (not my gf) took the phone, scrolled through the phone book, and called any other students who were listed -- to see who else had their phone on!!

He confiscated every single one of them.

Personally, I think that's fantastic. As a college instructor, there are few things I hate more than a cell phone going off in my classroom. Since I can't get away with taking the things, I have started counting such an occurrence as an absence... which actually seems to be working fairly well, because I also deduct five points for each unexcused absence. :)

Anyway, I just don't think young kids should have them... period. Naturally, I blame the parents. They always complain that they need to stay in touch with their child... well, then they should buy one of those phones that can only call emergency numbers and a handful of other preprogrammed numbers. Kids are distracted enough as it is without calling and texting each other all day long.

By the way... some of my bitterness may have something to do with my experience working in customer service for a mobile service provider.

:headbang:

My girlfriend is currently teaching at a summer camp for gifted youth (aged approx. 12-16), and cell phones are strictly not allowed in class rooms. The official policy is that instructors may seize the phone and keep it until the end of the three-week program.

Just the other day, a student was caught using her cell-phone... and the instructor (not my gf) took the phone, scrolled through the phone book, and called any other students who were listed -- to see who else had their phone on!!

He confiscated every single one of them.

Personally, I think that's fantastic. As a college instructor, there are few things I hate more than a cell phone going off in my classroom. Since I can't get away with taking the things, I have started counting such an occurrence as an absence... which actually seems to be working fairly well, because I also deduct five points for each unexcused absence. :)

Anyway, I just don't think young kids should have them... period. Naturally, I blame the parents. They always complain that they need to stay in touch with their child... well, then they should buy one of those phones that can only call emergency numbers and a handful of other preprogrammed numbers. Kids are distracted enough as it is without calling and texting each other all day long.

By the way... some of my bitterness may have something to do with my experience working in customer service for a mobile service provider.

:headbang:
If cell phone jammers are legal in your area, get one. It's peace of mind in class.

They shouldnt have cell phones in class to begin with. If they disrupt the class with a whistle - it can certainly be taken away, privacy rights (which hardly exist in school anyhow) and all. A cell phone is no different.

If cell phone jammers are legal in your area, get one. It's peace of mind in class.Funny you should mention that!!

I always dream of it... I'm not sure of the legality here, but for the moment it's a moot point as I simply don't have the cash to drop on a frivolous expenditure--though the looks on my students faces might make it worthwhile... hmmm....

:)

My girlfriend is currently teaching at a summer camp for gifted youth (aged approx. 12-16), and cell phones are strictly not allowed in class rooms. The official policy is that instructors may seize the phone and keep it until the end of the three-week program.

Just the other day, a student was caught using her cell-phone... and the instructor (not my gf) took the phone, scrolled through the phone book, and called any other students who were listed -- to see who else had their phone on!!

He confiscated every single one of them.

Personally, I think that's fantastic. As a college instructor, there are few things I hate more than a cell phone going off in my classroom. Since I can't get away with taking the things, I have started counting such an occurrence as an absence... which actually seems to be working fairly well, because I also deduct five points for each unexcused absence. :)

Anyway, I just don't think young kids should have them... period. Naturally, I blame the parents. They always complain that they need to stay in touch with their child... well, then they should buy one of those phones that can only call emergency numbers and a handful of other preprogrammed numbers. Kids are distracted enough as it is without calling and texting each other all day long.

By the way... some of my bitterness may have something to do with my experience working in customer service for a mobile service provider.

:headbang:


Hmmm I teach college courses too never much bothered me

Hmmm I teach college courses too never much bothered meAm I to be blamed for my pet peeves?

Am I to be blamed for my pet peeves?
No but personaly I do not try to take out my pet peeves on the students specialy when I am aware that they just sometimes forget

It only happens max 1 times a week

Now if someone takes out and USES their phone (for text or call) then I can maybe see having issue with

What are they going to find on a student's cell phone? Thousands of text messages sent back and forth between adolescent girls saying "OMG HES SO HOTT!!!!11!!!!"
.
What are they going to find on a student's cell phone?exam answers.

I say ban it.

I'm thoroughly unconcerned about the digital privacy of someone who ain't old enough to vote.
You knoew, that I don't care what people who believe age-based stereotypes say. Honestly, I think that being older than someone is no reason to needlessley incvade their privacy. besides, the voting age is to high anywayschool sucks, support the revolution

No but personaly I do not try to take out my pet peeves on the students specialy when I am aware that they just sometimes forget.Sure. To be fair, I don't think I've ever actually enforced my "no ring" policy on the first offence... but if the same person's phone continually goes off, it's going to be marked as an absence. Oh, and even on the first ring if they actually take it out to see who called or check a message... that's an absence.

I also tell my students that if they are expecting an important call, they should notify me prior to class and I will allow them to answer and head outside.

In general, I just consider it an utter lack of common courtesy... and even if I try not to let it bother me, inevitably every head in the room turns to see whose phone is going off, and that is a distraction from class.

It only happens max 1 times a week.Must be a difference in the local culture... I would say that before I instituted the current policy it happened at least once per class. It seems your students are more considerate. Lucky you.

(Actually, it was even worse at the last school at which I taught... that being an exclusive private school with a very palpable sense of entitlement. It was there that a student informed me that his father, a member of the Board, would have me fired for *gasp* having the audacity to teach Marx in an intro course on political theory. ... Although I never did hear from dear old Dad.)

Now if someone takes out and USES their phone (for text or call) then I can maybe see having issue withThis has never happened to me (once a student started to check a message, but my icy stare put a stop to it)... but my girlfriend (who still teaches at said private university) actually had a girl pick up the phone and start talking!!

The class was watching a movie, and apparently she thought the no-phone rule only applied to lectures and discussions. :headbang:

Sure. To be fair, I don't think I've ever actually enforced my "no ring" policy on the first offence... but if the same person's phone continually goes off, it's going to be marked as an absence. Oh, and even on the first ring if they actually take it out to see who called or check a message... that's an absence.

I also tell my students that if they are expecting an important call, they should notify me prior to class and I will allow them to answer and head outside.

In general, I just consider it an utter lack of common courtesy... and even if I try not to let it bother me, inevitably every head in the room turns to see whose phone is going off, and that is a distraction from class.

Must be a difference in the local culture... I would say that before I instituted the current policy it happened at least once per class. It seems your students are more considerate. Lucky you.

(Actually, it was even worse at the last school at which I taught... that being an exclusive private school with a very palpable sense of entitlement. It was there that a student informed me that his father, a member of the Board, would have me fired for *gasp* having the audacity to teach Marx in an intro course on political theory. ... Although I never did hear from dear old Dad.)

This has never happened to me (once a student started to check a message, but my icy stare put a stop to it)... but my girlfriend (who still teaches at said private university) actually had a girl pick up the phone and start talking!!

The class was watching a movie, and apparently she thought the no-phone rule only applied to lectures and discussions. :headbang:


Ok as you explain it, it sounds more reasonable then it did at first.

I think it is a local culture thing tied into the fact that I only teach upper level in the field small classes (all 400 level classes)

In two years the only people it happens too are the sleep deprived neer graduates that just plain old forget and reach franticly to turn the phone off as fast as humanly possible

Ok as you explain it, it sounds more reasonable then it did at first.

I think it is a local culture thing tied into the fact that I only teach upper level in the field small classes (all 400 level classes)Yes, that generally helps... if only because the students are more interested in the subject material.

Right now I'm teaching 400-level Democratic Political Theory, and so far there are no problems. But this does seem like a genuinely good group of kids.

The worst, at this school anyway, is definitely Intro Political Theory... a class with 400 students. We need seven TAs just to keep track of who's coming, let alone their cell phones. :(

Yes, that generally helps... if only because the students are more interested in the subject material.

Right now I'm teaching 400-level Democratic Political Theory, and so far there are no problems. But this does seem like a genuinely good group of kids.
I enjoy my classes teaching 436 which is a web development class as well as 451 (network design) and 426(networking 2)

They are an awsome group

The worst, at this school anyway, is definitely Intro Political Theory... a class with 400 students. We need seven TAs just to keep track of who's coming, let alone their cell phones. :(
426 my biggest class has only 36 people in it last simester

426 my biggest class has only 36 people in it last simesterI don't think I've seen a class that small except in summer sessions!!

During the regular term, the smallest class I've taught was 406 -- Civil Liberties and Civil Rights -- with about 50 students! And that was actually unusually small this year... usually it runs about 65-70.

I don't think I've seen a class that small except in summer sessions!!

During the regular term, the smallest class I've taught was 406 -- Civil Liberties and Civil Rights -- with about 50 students! And that was actually unusually small this year... usually it runs about 65-70.
Man, my college must be fucking tiny, only the low level sciences that everyone has to take have huge class sizes. The rest have your average school classroom size, 30 (maybe 40) or less. Some of the higher classes required to graduate sometimes don't have enough students to even have it convened causing a number of students to have to postpone graduation (among a number of other reasons, my college is run by dicks).

They are phones??? I thought they were human beings! And what does the weather have to do with this?

/nitpick
dont be a grammer nazi.

dont be a grammer nazi.

Request Granted.

Spelling error found: "grammer" - should be "grammar".

what is this privacy talk? what does a high school student have to keep private?

that they were drinking last night? that they made out with some chick who passed out?

what is this privacy talk? what does a high school student have to keep private?

that they were drinking last night? that they made out with some chick who passed out?
Maybe they've been disobeying the honor code, because obviously they're not the most intelligent of people.

What are they going to find on a student's cell phone? Thousands of text messages sent back and forth between adolescent girls saying "OMG HES SO HOTT!!!!11!!!!"

As you proberbly arnt capable of phathoming, they arnt looking for intellegence. They are seizing them because they are slowing down the learning process in the classroom because the entire lesson is stopped by someones phone going *beep* every few minutes and the entire class laughing.

As you proberbly arnt capable of phathoming, they arnt looking for intellegence. They are seizing them because they are slowing down the learning process in the classroom because the entire lesson is stopped by someones phone going *beep* every few minutes and the entire class laughing.
Quite true...I've had that happen in my class and I was ticked as a student. The teacher was pretty ticked too. He went on about the "gears of education grinding to a halt." I quite agreed with him.

I just have my phone protected with an 8-digit password. They can confiscate the phone all they want, but they have no grounds in either the law or in their rights as school administration to make me divulge the password ^.^

what is this privacy talk? what does a high school student have to keep private?

that they were drinking last night? that they made out with some chick who passed out?

From my experience, high school students have a hell of a lot to hide. You know, things like getting really drunk, smoking a blunt, and eating two gel tabs the day before. Now, I'll grant you, things like that are not likely to be on a cell phone, but for instance, my friends who deals LSD has, I am sure text messages on his phone from people asking about the Aliens (probably from me). He is a dropout, but nonetheless...I'd call that something to hide.

exam answers.

I say ban it.

That's a risk with examinations that CAN be 'cheated' on. That's why I prefer the idea of testing that questions what and how you THINK, not which data you can recall, or how many chemical formulae you have memorised.

Seriously... you work in a lab, it doesn't MATTER if you know the chemical constituents of gunpowder... you need it, you look it up.

That's a risk with examinations that CAN be 'cheated' on. That's why I prefer the idea of testing that questions what and how you THINK, not which data you can recall, or how many chemical formulae you have memorised.

Seriously... you work in a lab, it doesn't MATTER if you know the chemical constituents of gunpowder... you need it, you look it up.
Same with comp work which is why we have all open book tests

I don't think I've seen a class that small except in summer sessions!!

During the regular term, the smallest class I've taught was 406 -- Civil Liberties and Civil Rights -- with about 50 students! And that was actually unusually small this year... usually it runs about 65-70.
Wow how big is your collage? We have about 15000 enrolled students

http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=134816





What do you all think of this? Personally in high school for me cell phones were flat not allowed to be on simple as that (and for good reason it was disruptive of the learning process)

My argument is not about being able to use cell phones, but with this rule administrators can seize even off cell phone and search the contents. Personally I find this needless invasion of their privacy.

ON? WHen I was in school, cell phones weren't allowed at all! Even a pager would get you in deep trouble.

ON? WHen I was in school, cell phones weren't allowed at all! Even a pager would get you in deep trouble.
Me as well … the point was that they were confiscated if found (meaning if you were disruptive with it) they were not searched

ON? WHen I was in school, cell phones weren't allowed at all! Even a pager would get you in deep trouble.

Thank you for your contribution to the discussion, Grandpa.

Anyway, since my phone is a cheap piece of shit, I have thought ahead of time and if I ever get into this situation, I'll break it into tiny peaces. Hell, I got the thing for free (although its technically part of a plan.... Damn you phone companies!).

Thank you for your contribution to the discussion, Grandpa.

Anyway, since my phone is a cheap piece of shit, I have thought ahead of time and if I ever get into this situation, I'll break it into tiny peaces. Hell, I got the thing for free (although its technically part of a plan.... Damn you phone companies!).

I'll stick my walker right up you ass, kid! :p

Stay the hell away from my cell phone!

ON? WHen I was in school, cell phones weren't allowed at all! Even a pager would get you in deep trouble.
They didn't have cellphones when you were in school :p

They didn't have cellphones when you were in school :p

Sure we did. They weighed as much as a small laptop, but we had em. :p

Yeah, they should do what my uni does. If a cell phone goes off during a exam, you fail the class. You can bet everyone makes very sure their phones are off, or that they leave it at home. I think it works pretty good too, I have not yet heard a cell phone ring during an exam.

Sure we did. They weighed as much as a small laptop, but we had em. :p
I bet they had a crank wheel too.

*nods*

To take the phone is fine but to search it is a violation of the civil liberties of the pupil.

The School that I work at in Scotland has some very clear guidelines. You can bring the phone to school but in classes it MUST be switched off. If it rings in class it is automatically confiscated until the end of the day. We may not search the phone as it invades the users privacy. Don't even think about trying to call out on it or text.

When it comes to exams the SQA are harsh taskmasters. If you take a phone into an Exam, even if it is switched off, you fail the subject and all the other subjects being taken too. If you are sittting your Standard Grades then kiss goodbye to 8 subjects and 2 years work. For those doing their Highers then 1 years post Standard grade work is trashed in 5 subjects.

I think that this is fair.

Boy, there's no better way to teach kids civics then to routinely violate the most fundamental rights that they would have if they were actual citizens...

It's really simple. If the phones are not desired for an event like exams, then the school takes them away from the student until the time is over and returns them.

You don't have to search the phone as they can't be used inappropiately if they don't have them at the time.

As usual, they take "We are Uber control masters of your information approach". Searching a person's private mobile phone is invasive - it's like reading someone's diary. Oh, I don't have a diary BTW ...

I'm thoroughly unconcerned about the digital privacy of someone who ain't old enough to vote.
When those people are old enough to vote don't be surprised when they are equally apathetic to your privacy; period.

Why should my phone be taken away if it doesn't ring, not even turned on for that matter? When they tried to take it away, I told them to stuff it and rightly so in my opinion.

If it is not allowed in school, why did you allow it to be seen in the first place?

The reason they are taken in my school is when they ring or students are caught texting, or else being brilliantly stupid by displaying them (showing them around, wearing on their holster, etc.) What should the school care if it's off and in your bag or pocket?

No but personaly I do not try to take out my pet peeves on the students specialy when I am aware that they just sometimes forget

It only happens max 1 times a week

Now if someone takes out and USES their phone (for text or call) then I can maybe see having issue with

I had a student whose phone went off in class, and while I was watching took it out to answer.

I said, "What are you doing, turn it off!"

Her answer, "I have to take this call." And she continued.

It was her boyfriend. And her father didn't even know she HAD a phone for him to pick up from the Dean, so.... yeah.

I think its just a scare tatic why would you need to search through a kids phone?

I bet they had a crank wheel too.

*nods*
They only had seven keys for the numbers: I, V, X, L, C, D and M.

Sense when do cell phones use magnetic storage? Somehow doubt magnets do anything to a cell phone I have had no problems working next to large transformers before

:rolleyes: the equivalent thing then.

:rolleyes: the equivalent thing then.
Yeah but the equivalent storage is not effected by magnets as sugested

I bring my cell phone in case I miss the bus or if I have to stay late unexpectedly to get help for something I didn't understand in class. Without the phone, I'd have a hard time getting through to my mom to get a ride. Other than that and checking the time, I don't use it during school. So why is that such a problem? It's not used during class time, only in between in the halls, or during my lunch period.

oh its not. And if everyone was that responsible, it would not be a problem. As with most such rules its due to a few bad apples.

Yeah but the equivalent storage is not effected by magnets as sugested

no? ok then? then why not have those reception blockers. I think that what they called. or the equivalent.

no? ok then? then why not have those reception blockers. I think that what they called. or the equivalent.

They've not been fully researched and some beleive they could effect emergency service radio reception.

Its a bit much! I think its ok to search phones if there is genuine concern. Say like bullying and even then there would have to be strong suspicion. I wouldn't like someone reading my personal messages.:upyours:

Schools are getting quite out of hand as of late. First nailing people for comments *non-threatening* on the net then checking personal cellphones. This is just more chickenshit tactics on thier part.

we have that rule at our secondary school in england.

If you are found with a camera phone you are suspended and all pictures are deleted off your phone by teachers with parental supervision.

I simply hate my school.

I never had a cell phone, but I remember walking out of the drug raid.

I was sitting in the cafe, the VP came in to tell us we all had to leave. Roughly 5 minutes later I stood up and left for my doctor's appointment.

VP said 'You can't leave.'

I replied politely "I'm sorry, I have a doctor's appointment across town in 20 minutes, I have to leave now."

VP looked back dismissively. 'I'm not letting you leave.'

I grinned, glared and told her to get the fuck out of my way, sidesteped and walked out the door.

She kindly reconsidered a physical confrontation with a someone a third to a quarter her age(19) and twice her size. Aaron's medical concerns are far more important then your petty rules, mamme.

Now if it wasn't the senile gremlin who couldn't remember my name 5 minutes after asking me, I might of tried a different strategy, but already having some bad run ins with this one, I figured this was the best strategy, she wasn't going to remember who told her to fuck off by the time she got to the office.

Later that day she saw me, and looked at me like I was just a random student. This really sounds made up, but yeah... if I made it up I'd add cops in the cafe and make it more dramatic... :D

Schools are getting quite out of hand as of late. First nailing people for comments *non-threatening* on the net then checking personal cellphones. This is just more chickenshit tactics on thier part.

It would be much more simple to just ban cell phones from schools. Many do and should as they disrupt the learning enviornment. If they don't want to do that then searching their contents is fine. You may not like it but they are in their rights to search your bookbag and your locker so why not your cell phone?

eh, well, I'm under 18 and therefore don't deserve any rights to privacy.
I've never left my phone switched on in a lesson or answered it, but typically someone's phone will ring in the middle of a class about three times a week, at my school. The teacher will just confiscate it and give the phone back at the end of the day; I don't think they are allowed to read the messages or anything, though.

When kids start having eye/ear implants and sub-vocalizers, then it's going to be really tough.

unless you can centrally control them like the cybermen ones