NationStates Jolt Archive

...the Glorious Leader is stealing trains from China.

July 5, 2006: While everyone's attention was focused on North Korean missiles, the real story is the North Korean economy. It continues to fall apart, and more North Koreans are unhappy about that. Worse yet, more North Koreans are finding out how badly they have been screwed by their leaders. Meanwhile, North Korean officials engage in even more bizarre behavior. For example, food and fuel supplies sent to North Korea have been halted, not to force North Korea to stop missile tests or participate in peace talks, but to return the Chinese trains the aid was carried in on. In the last few weeks, the North Koreans have just kept the trains, sending the Chinese crews back across the border. North Korea just ignores Chinese demands that the trains be returned, and insists that the trains are part of the aid program. It's no secret that North Korean railroad stock is falling apart, after decades of poor maintenance and not much new equipment. Stealing Chinese trains is a typical loony-tune North Korean solution to the problem. If the North Koreans appear to make no sense, that's because they don't. Put simply, when their unworkable economic policies don't work, the North Koreans just conjure up new, and equally unworkable, plans. The Chinese have tried to talk the North Koreans out of these pointless fantasies, and for their trouble they have their trains stolen. How do you negotiate under these conditions? No one knows. The South Koreans believe that if they just keep the North Korean leaders from doing anything too destructive (especially to South Korea), eventually the tragicomic house of cards up north will just collapse. Not much of a plan, but so far, no one's come up with anything better.
Strategy Page (http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/korea/articles/20060705.aspx)

You'd think they'd have more sense then that.

:rolleyes: yes, they should have asked for the railroad aswell

I love the title.

Kim Jong Il used to be a crazy tin-pot dictator. That term doesn't cover the political ineptitude that leads you to think stealing the trains your food aid comes in on might possibly be of benefit to your regime.

he he... it's a definite sign of a truely stupid and insane government ^_^
and to think that they've been doing stuff like this for years... if they keep this up, their entire government might just win a Darwin Award (http://www.darwinawards.com) :p

I've lived there for a long time...I dont think he deserved to win a Darwin award because he doesnt deserve to "win" or be celebrated for anything even if it is being the most idiotic and whack job person alive.

The award is for improving the gene pool by exiting the human race. (Dying)

Wait for some time, he'll be dead if he tries anything.

I've lived there for a long time...I dont think he deserved to win a Darwin award because he doesnt deserve to "win" or be celebrated for anything even if it is being the most idiotic and whack job person alive.
"there"?

as in North Korea?

Hmmm, we may actually not have to go to war at all, Japan may be on to something with the Economic sanctions.

And in the most delicious irony of all, North Korea has neither the crews nor the fuel necessary to actually use the stolen trains.

Hmmm, we may actually not have to go to war at all, Japan may be on to something with the Economic sanctions.

Not likely; China and Russia still do a lot of trade with North Korea and they still see them as a Cold War ally despite the utter lack of force projection or military capability NK provides. Still, their relations with the US might motivate them to abstain rather than veto sanctions provided China has a key role in determining them.

You'd think China and Russia wouldn't mind seeing the 38,000 or so US troops on the DMZ withdrawn...

And in the most delicious irony of all, North Korea has neither the crews nor the fuel necessary to actually use the stolen trains.
or the rails

North Korea loses at...well, everything.

or the rails

They don't have many of those...

After all, that iron's a pretty attractive source for building the world's largest flagpole, a gigantic light-up plastic and granite torch, or endless statues of the Great Leader. It's not like you need to feed anyone or provide basic services like water and electricity to them.

I don't think that Beijing and Moscow see Pyongyang as an effective ally, per se, it's probably just that they don't want to see western influence spread to their borders in the east by reunification coming on Seoul's terms. I doubt that they'd care if Kim died, so long as he was replaced with somebody that wasn't going to give-in to the west.

Anyway, yeah, of course NK's economy is bad. It's like... the nightmare extreme end of capitalism, now that people are employed in virtual fortress compounds, making cheap cigarettes for multi-nationals. I don't know what the hell 'they' are trying to achieve.

[slight tangent]Wouldn't mind seeing US troops pull back from the DMZ? The initial pull-back of US troops near the DMZ was a disaster for NK et al. Seoul didn't really like it, either. They had a balance going. Previously, the North had US and ROK troops within striking distance, and had an outside chance of winning a war of aggression with a major first strike. When they pulled back, the US forces moved out of range, and would survive the initial strike, and counter-attack against an otherwise virtually impotent NK military. It means strategic victory for the US should war break out, but leaves Seoul exposed. Anti-American elements in the South were perhaps embarrased by the move, as well.[/slight tangent]

Anyway *makes note: steal... aid... trains* endless source of inspiration for NS role-playing, these guys :)

North Korea's economy is so bad, they ate all the &%!# snakes on the &%#! plane!

North Korea's economy is so bad, they ate all the &%!# snakes on the &%#! plane!
GUARENTEE that film turns out to be complete and utter arse.

North Korea's economy is so bad, they ate all the &%!# snakes on the &%#! plane!

What makes you think thay have a &%!# plane in the first place?

North Korea's economy is so bad, they ate all the &%!# snakes on the &%#! plane!
they dont have fuel for planes

or maybe they dont even have planes

they dont have fuel for planes

or maybe they dont even have planes
They did in the NK war...

What makes you think thay have a &%!# plane in the first place?

I saw quite a few of them on GoogleEarth the other day. Half a squadron of MiG-19s and a few assorted transport planes.

Liasia']They did in the NK war...
50 years ago

50 years ago
Yeh, the rest of the country is living 50 years in the past, so I dont see why their airfore shouldn't be.

...the Glorious Leader is stealing trains from China.

Strategy Page (http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/korea/articles/20060705.aspx)

You'd think they'd have more sense then that.
Do you have a credible link for this story?

Yeah, they have planes. Including MiG-29. They're just a bit light on fuel to get them off the ground for long enough to teach anybody how to use them. Again, first-strike they could do damage, but since the Yanks pulled-back from the DMZ, they're almost totally helpless. Darn the luck.

Yeah, they have planes. Including MiG-29. They're just a bit light on fuel to get them off the ground for long enough to teach anybody how to use them. Again, first-strike they could do damage, but since the Yanks pulled-back from the DMZ, they're almost totally helpless. Darn the luck.
Unfortunately, they have very low numbers of Foxbats and Fulcrums
the rest of their airforce is outdated Soviet and Chinese airplanes, they still operate MiG-19s!

Hmmm, we may actually not have to go to war at all, Japan may be on to something with the Economic sanctions.

You can't place economic sanctions on a nation with no economy.

Unfortunately, they have very low numbers of Foxbats and Fulcrums
the rest of their airforce is outdated Soviet and Chinese airplanes, they still operate MiG-19s!

Foxbats are shit. They're fast, but that's about it. Hell, most of them don't even have radar!

Unfortunately, they have very low numbers of Foxbats and Fulcrums
the rest of their airforce is outdated Soviet and Chinese airplanes, they still operate MiG-19s!

Again, those are okay for some work in a one-off first strike, FFARs, free-fall bombs, guns. Warning times for positions close to the DMZ, and even at Seoul and whatsit air force base south of the city, wouldn't allow many interceptors off the ground before the runways were being straffed. And a MiG-19 is of some use in close-range combat... not much, but compared to its value BVR.

What was my point? Heh. Oh, pulling back from the DMZ made sense for the Americans. Now they can engage the Korean People's Army at stand-off range and maul it. It's like... NK had two knives, and the US/ROK had a broadsword between them. Standing belly to belly, NK had a good chance against its enemies. The US stepped back, and now NK can lunge, but it's likely to lose its head when the US swings back.

Most of the grain sent to NK is stored as 'war rations', ie. to be given out only in the time of war.
Back in the early 90's ppl were starving to the point (apparently, according to some NK'ers who escaped into China) they were resorting to cannabalism.
When the sabre rattling came around again and "little nutcase' (or whatever the name Kim goes by) was threatening the world, nearly everyone in NK was right behind him in the desire to go to war
Not because they wanted to attack anyone but solely because they were so desperate and hungry they hoped they would get more grain that way.
That's the state of the NK economy.

Jimmy Carter managed to avert that crisis.

I don't think there's a Jimmy Carter around this time that this administration can/will call on.


Also China's a lot more powerful now. And they call the shots re:NK more than most realise.
NK relies on China for pretty much everything.
You think NK would ever do anything without first informing China and getting their permission?
Look how relaxed China has been about the missile tests - missiles that not only can hit Japan and maybe Alaska (though why they'd want to attack Alaska is beyond me) but also every city in China.

Do you wonder why?
Do you also wonder why the missiles tests happened now?

Well, try this premise on for size:

China Premier is invited to the US, but is snubbed by way of the Bush admin openly declaring that it is NOT an official state visit.
A few weeks later the Japanese PM is invited, as an official state visit, where he is seen dancing, singing and laughing along with Bush in Graceland.
China's relationship with Japan has been pretty bad the last couple of years. So imagine how insulted they felt looking at how the two top politicians were treated by Bush in their respective visits?
Remember, China's trying to assert itself more and more in Asia.

So anyway, first a non-official visit snub then (to Chinese politburo eyes) a real rub-your-nose-in-it official visit for their arch economic rivals in Asia.

Suddenly we have NK doing missile tests and sabre rattling again (and "Baby Headcase" is happy cause he's back on the front page, the little attentionwhore that he is) and this time refusing to listen to anyone, especially the US and Japan (who they have been going out of their way to insult this time round).
Anyone that is, except China. Who is meeting with NK to persuade them back into the multi-nation talks.
China comes off as a hero and flexes it's regional muscle, putting the US and Japan in their place in the process.

I don't think it sounds that far-fetched, do you?


As to NK economic problems, one of their clauses for resuming talks is for Macau to un-freeze ~ $US24 million held in a bank there.
It was frozen last year when world-wide investigations indicated that the bank was a knowing vehicle used in NK money-laundering. NK has produced the best, almost impossible to detect, counterfeit US bills and was passing them thru the Macau bank.

They must be desperate if they need that little money. I mean obviously it's a lot to you or I, but $24 mill to a whole country?
They're holding out from a possible invasion over that?
They must be really desperate.
Apparently the freeze and anti-laudering investigations hurt a lot of top officials in their own pockets, including "Dear nutjob" himself.

what DH has just said makes sense

China is the hero
and NK gets to do its tests

a win-win situation for both (unless people come down heavy on NK)

what DH has just said makes sense

China is the hero
and NK gets to do its tests

a win-win situation for both (unless people come down heavy on NK)
Even if that does happen, China would still come out ok.
What have they got to lose from this?
At worse a few hundred thousand NK'ers pouring into their country desperate to escape the fighting/bombing. But China can cope with that. They cope ok with the 1.4Bill Chinese already there.

Also, they come out looking good internationally because they were "trying" to avert a war, whereas Japan and US would appear to be the insane attack-happy ones.

China's playing this pretty good, imo.

Do you have a credible link for this story?
Why, there something wrong with the source?

If North Korea's economy is that bad, they are probably up to their eyeballs in debt. I wouldn't say attack them as much as invade and reposess everything. It's going to be really tough to command authority and respect if you are doing it from an empty house and all you have to wear is your underwear.

If North Korea's economy is that bad, they are probably up to their eyeballs in debt. I wouldn't say attack them as much as invade and reposess everything. It's going to be really tough to command authority and respect if you are doing it from an empty house and all you have to wear is your underwear.

They are up to their eyeballs in debt and they refuse to repay it. That's one of the main reasons why nobody lends NK money or equipment anymore; not only do they not repay their loans, but they steal the equipment they're loaned and don't return it.

they're inventing "synchronized stock trading."

Why, there something wrong with the source?
Yeah, I couldn't find one credible newspaper account of this story. So where or how did this story originate?

North Korea's economy is so bad, that about a year back they got ToT (transfer of technology) to manufacture....

...

...

bicycles from a company in China.

True story.

North Korea's economy is so bad, that about a year back they got ToT (transfer of technology) to manufacture....


bicycles from a company in China.
True story.

EDIT: "Pyongyang Joint Venture Bicycle Factory" is real. At least according to KCNA (NK official news agency.)
And that IS funny :)
Or maybe not. They need bicycles a lot more than they need long-range missiles or dancing girls.

North Korea's economy is so bad, that about a year back they got ToT (transfer of technology) to manufacture....


bicycles from a company in China.

True story.

At least it wasn't a ToT to manufacture the wheel...

At least it wasn't a ToT to manufacture the wheel...

Kim: "I knew this would happen! Corrupt western consumerism! Give them bicycles, now they want WHEELS?!"

Kim: "I knew this would happen! Corrupt western consumerism! Give them bicycles, now they want WHEELS?!"
"They've arready got the thing, but nooo, that's not enough - they've got to USE it as werr! Simpre, greedy *****!"