NationStates Jolt Archive

I keep hearing people saying that religion is horrible, but I don't think that's the case. What's wrong with religion? If you're an atheist, what do you care if somebody else believes what you call a fairy tale? It's annoying, but so is Disco...and I would personally say that disco is a far worse abomination than religion.

Religion doesn't cause wars. Fanatics cause wars. There are plenty of Jews, Muslims, and Christians in the USA, and I've yet to see people from those faiths suicide-bombing each other here. People fight wars whether religion is a factor or not. People fight wars over land, water, women...World War I wasn't a religious war.

Religion doesn't cause hate. Fanatics cause hate. Christ said "Love thy neighbor as thyself." Yahweh said "Thou shalt not kill." I've seen atheists hate. I've seen people hate one another over skin color, designer jeans, gender...

Religion doesn't make people kill. Fanatics kill. Hell, Manson had people killed over the Beatles (who were bigger than Jesus. :cool: ).

Religion's not the problem. Fanaticism is.

And one can be a fanatic atheist.

*prepares to face the flames*

True, religion is not bad in and of itself, it's the actions of fanatics...But it seems religion is far more likely to engender fanaticism than Atheism or Disco.

From the way I've heard people on this forum refer to religious folk (most of whom are not suicide-bombing maniacs), I'd say atheism can lead to fanaticism just as easily.

And if you believe Disco can't hurt you, you're part of the problem. :D

From the way I've heard people on this forum refer to religious folk (most of whom are not suicide-bombing maniacs), I'd say atheism can lead to fanaticism just as easily.

And if you believe Disco can't hurt you, you're part of the problem. :D
Well, you do find people with strong feelings about religion, but I doubt you'll ever see them blowing up churches/synagouges/mosques/temples etc.

Religion isn’t bad just because it starts wars and promotes death. It also stifles human creativity, retards scientific and social progress and causes people to feel guilty when they have done nothing that a reasonable person would say was wrong.

I think im a fanatical atheist. I am certainly disgusted by christians.

But you're not planning to be a suicide bomber for the cause of atheism are you?

Tis true. I like a good argument.. but blowing myself up might be taking it a bit too far.

Religion's not the problem. Fanaticism is.

Oh ... I don't know ... I'm a pretty fanatic hedonist ...

I don't think I've hurt anyone ... well ... anyone who didn't *want* to be hurt ...

But you're not planning to be a suicide bomber for the cause of atheism are you?

Hehehe ...... "GOD IS A MYTH!!!" *kaboom*

But you're not planning to be a suicide bomber for the cause of atheism are you?
Nor are many Christians. The main threat from them lies in their desire to crush human nature and impose their will upon their intellectual betters.

Liasia']I think im a fanatical atheist. I am certainly disgusted by christians.
you are disgusted by me ???????:( *cries*

you are disgusted by me ???????:( *cries*

It's self-imposed based on the idea that all Christians are exactly like Pat Robertson.

you are disgusted by me ???????:( *cries*I can't remember exactly what kind of Christian you are, but to be perfectly honest, Christians who believe in eternal torment, do disgust me. I think it's quite spectacularly sick to worship a being that punishes people in that manner. Fanatic worship of Pol Pot would seem quite sane in comparison.

Christians who believe in eternal torment, do disgust me.

From what I've seen, Smunk believes in Christian love, tolerance, brotherhood, and patience. If Smunk ever told someone they were going to Hell, I'd be the first to say someone hacked the account.

Edit: Unless Smunk was talking to me ... cuz, clearly, I am going to Hell. ;)

From what I've seen, Smunk believes in Christian love, tolerance, brotherhood, and patience. If Smunk ever told someone they were going to Hell, I'd be the first to say someone hacked the account.
true, however it might confuse some people that I am Southern Baptist. ;)

I do believe in hell, and I think tons of people are probably going to end up there, it is not however my job to go around shouting at them until they repent. I was given a comandment from Jesus to love my neighbor, and that's what I shall do. ;)

From what I've seen, Smunk believes in Christian love, tolerance, brotherhood, and patience. If Smunk ever told someone they were going to Hell, I'd be the first to say someone hacked the account.

Edit: Unless Smunk was talking to me ... cuz, clearly, I am going to Hell. ;)I have absolutely nothing against that type of Christians. I think perhaps they're a bit insane, but I'm quite certain I am as well in my own special way. Makes life more interesting, no?

Let's ask ourselves who these 'fanatics' are. Are they raving bottles of aggression? Maybe. But these religious fanatics have something in common. They are all fanatical about religion. They are the ones who believe it the most and apply themselves to it the most. In the Western world, religion isn't as big as it is in different places. Thus, there are very few real religious fanatics compared to other parts of the world. Though not all of the problem lies on religion....you never hear about suicide bombings by radical Hindis, or Buddhists, even though there are tons of people who dedicate their lives to these religions, much like Islam. However, perhaps Islam gives them the direction for their acts, from some translated parts of the Quran that I have seen. Yet do not think that Islam is the only problem, what of Christianity? Christianity has been led by its great leader into battle, and particularly with Islam, the Crusades eh? I suppose that a fanatical athiest could want to destroy the world's religion, but only those who already have wants to destroy and make things go boom. Athiesm has no holy book, no moral code, no instructions for life. You are who you want to be.

Imagine if Afghanistan has a radical Taliban government of Christianity instead of Islam. Women wouldn't wear burkas, but if whatever they were wearing came off for another lady, and the authorities found out, could it be possible that this lesbian couple could get dragged off to the sports arena and shot? How about a radical anti-religion government, more radical than Communists of course, finding a small religious shrine? Perhaps that would disappear, eh? It is a matter of being fanatical, but also being fanatical about what. It is not black and white, there are many factors to grey it out.

true, however it might confuse some people that I am Southern Baptist. ;)

My only confusion is the recent decision by the Southern Baptist Convention that women cannot be preachers. I find that horseshit. (sorry)

I was given a comandment from Jesus to love my neighbor, and that's what I shall do. ;)

Then all is well with the world. You're one of the good ones, unfortunately surrounded by a sea of bad ones who are giving you a bad name. Your kind will prevail, though. Fear not.

I think perhaps they're a bit insane, but I'm quite certain I am as well in my own special way. Makes life more interesting, no?

Exactly. We all have our insanity. :) Gets us through the day.

Then all is well with the world. You're one of the good ones, unfortunately surrounded by a sea of bad ones who are giving you a bad name. Your kind will prevail, though. Fear not.
I doubt it. The "good" ones will be made to feel guilt for their lack of zeal and will either abandon religion altogether as my mother did when her church tried to pull that or join the fanatics.

I doubt it. The "good" ones will be made to feel guilt for their lack of zeal and will either abandon religion altogether as my mother did when her church tried to pull that or join the fanatics.

Welll I believe in hope... .I'm just that idealistic hippieish. ;)

Let's ask ourselves who these 'fanatics' are. Are they raving bottles of aggression? Maybe. But these religious fanatics have something in common. They are all fanatical about religion. They are the ones who believe it the most and apply themselves to it the most. In the Western world, religion isn't as big as it is in different places. Thus, there are very few real religious fanatics compared to other parts of the world. Though not all of the problem lies on religion....you never hear about suicide bombings by radical Hindis, or Buddhists, even though there are tons of people who dedicate their lives to these religions, much like Islam. However, perhaps Islam gives them the direction for their acts, from some translated parts of the Quran that I have seen. Yet do not think that Islam is the only problem, what of Christianity? Christianity has been led by its great leader into battle, and particularly with Islam, the Crusades eh? I suppose that a fanatical athiest could want to destroy the world's religion, but only those who already have wants to destroy and make things go boom. Athiesm has no holy book, no moral code, no instructions for life. You are who you want to be.

Imagine if Afghanistan has a radical Taliban government of Christianity instead of Islam. Women wouldn't wear burkas, but if whatever they were wearing came off for another lady, and the authorities found out, could it be possible that this lesbian couple could get dragged off to the sports arena and shot? How about a radical anti-religion government, more radical than Communists of course, finding a small religious shrine? Perhaps that would disappear, eh? It is a matter of being fanatical, but also being fanatical about what. It is not black and white, there are many factors to grey it out.

It's funny that you say all fanatics are religious fanatics. Hitler had plenty of folks killed, and he claimed that it was all about the science. Communism is supposedly atheistic in full, but Communists have killed plenty (either look at Stalin, or Tienamen Square, even though I'm sure I butchered that spelling).

Religion has been used by countless people as an excuse for their deeds, but does that mean it's responsible for those deeds? Disabled people were injured, chemically neutered, and even killed with the excuse that evolution dictated that they not be allowed to reproduce. Evolution, however, is not evil. Skin color's been used as an excuse for countless brutal acts, but having skin isn't wrong.

I notice a lot of people getting really affronted with the idea of atheist fanatics...why? Atheists are just people. People get worked up and do stupid things. Why would atheism be any different?

Let's ask ourselves who these 'fanatics' are. Are they raving bottles of aggression? Maybe. But these religious fanatics have something in common. They are all fanatical about religion. They are the ones who believe it the most and apply themselves to it the most. In the Western world, religion isn't as big as it is in different places. Thus, there are very few real religious fanatics compared to other parts of the world. Though not all of the problem lies on religion....you never hear about suicide bombings by radical Hindis, or Buddhists, even though there are tons of people who dedicate their lives to these religions, much like Islam. However, perhaps Islam gives them the direction for their acts, from some translated parts of the Quran that I have seen. Yet do not think that Islam is the only problem, what of Christianity? Christianity has been led by its great leader into battle, and particularly with Islam, the Crusades eh? I suppose that a fanatical athiest could want to destroy the world's religion, but only those who already have wants to destroy and make things go boom. Athiesm has no holy book, no moral code, no instructions for life. You are who you want to be.

Imagine if Afghanistan has a radical Taliban government of Christianity instead of Islam. Women wouldn't wear burkas, but if whatever they were wearing came off for another lady, and the authorities found out, could it be possible that this lesbian couple could get dragged off to the sports arena and shot? How about a radical anti-religion government, more radical than Communists of course, finding a small religious shrine? Perhaps that would disappear, eh? It is a matter of being fanatical, but also being fanatical about what. It is not black and white, there are many factors to grey it out.

Well, it's about balance. I mean, take almost anything that is inherently good or neutral and if you have too much of it or are too fanatic about it, it becomes something that is harmful. Just because some fanatics take religion and make it something harmful, doesn't mean relgion is harmful. You know, guns don't kill people, people kill people? Or, in this case, religion doesn't hurt people, people hurt people.

Well I interpreted this topic as being about religion and religious fanatics, I meant to only talk about the religious fanatics such as al Qaeda. As for Hitler, I'm not sure I'm familiar with this 'science' that he did it for other than human experimentation. To quote Anne Nicol Gaylor (http://www.ffrf.org/fttoday/back/hitler.html), "You will find it in Mein Kampf: "Therefore, I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Creator. By fighting off the Jews, I am doing the Lord's Work." "

And such....yes fanaticism in evolution can be the cause of such things by the interpretation that humans can become advanced by killing off their weak. However, as for Communism, such institutions are more of one party tyrannical governments in my eyes, rather than the true Cummunism that it probably should be, where the country is one big Community, and they all work together and share ownership of everything, not be viciously directed around by a single party. As for the killings that Communism has caused, it was by a radical group that said follow our rules or die. A good Communism would be just the same, except be a bunch of hippies like myself that were into peace and love, heck, hippies lives in old Communes, eh?

As for things being evil, Evolution being evil, Christianity being evil, Islam being evil, if you believe in something you probably wouldn't call it evil, and if you don't believe in it, you might call it evil. There just needs to be a better definement of Evil.

As for fanatical athiests, the idea probably comes from that most of the other athiests I personally know are all death metal heads and are more destructive than the other people I know. Just as well, with no rules comes the thoughts that they have no moral barrier stopping them from killing. Oh no! He doesn't worry about not killing because he has no religion! He doesn't have to worry about sinning! There are plenty of reasons for athiests to become athiests, and I don't think that many do so because of the fact that other religions frown on causing destruction. Athiests are just normal people. If they are destructive pyros, then look at all of the destructive pyros who align themselves with a religion. People just are who they are. Peace and love, yeah!

Well I interpreted this topic as being about religion and religious fanatics, I meant to only talk about the religious fanatics such as al Qaeda. As for Hitler, I'm not sure I'm familiar with this 'science' that he did it for other than human experimentation. To quote Anne Nicol Gaylor (http://www.ffrf.org/fttoday/back/hitler.html), "You will find it in Mein Kampf: "Therefore, I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Creator. By fighting off the Jews, I am doing the Lord's Work." "

But he justified it by saying he was getting rid of "lower" races. Genetic Engineering's worst hour, which has similarly poisoned its name in society's eyes...exactly like European leaders justified countless wars and atrocities by citing religion.


And such....yes fanaticism in evolution can be the cause of such things by the interpretation that humans can become advanced by killing off their weak. However, as for Communism, such institutions are more of one party tyrannical governments in my eyes, rather than the true Cummunism that it probably should be, where the country is one big Community, and they all work together and share ownership of everything, not be viciously directed around by a single party. As for the killings that Communism has caused, it was by a radical group that said follow our rules or die. A good Communism would be just the same, except be a bunch of hippies like myself that were into peace and love, heck, hippies lives in old Communes, eh?


Tyrannical governments are, generally, pretty fanatic, wouldn't you say? ;)


As for things being evil, Evolution being evil, Christianity being evil, Islam being evil, if you believe in something you probably wouldn't call it evil, and if you don't believe in it, you might call it evil. There just needs to be a better definement of Evil.

Meh, I just use the words because it's easier than fitting evolution into the regular "religion is the bane of mankind" sort of phrases.


As for fanatical athiests, the idea probably comes from that most of the other athiests I personally know are all death metal heads and are more destructive than the other people I know. Just as well, with no rules comes the thoughts that they have no moral barrier stopping them from killing. Oh no! He doesn't worry about not killing because he has no religion! He doesn't have to worry about sinning! There are plenty of reasons for athiests to become athiests, and I don't think that many do so because of the fact that other religions frown on causing destruction. Athiests are just normal people. If they are destructive pyros, then look at all of the destructive pyros who align themselves with a religion. People just are who they are. Peace and love, yeah!

Like I've been saying, religion (and hence, any lack thereof) isn't the problem. Atheists are just people. Religious folk are just people. It's fanatics that you need to watch out for. I'm not bashing atheism, dude.

My only confusion is the recent decision by the Southern Baptist Convention that women cannot be preachers. I find that horseshit. (sorry)
it's not recent, they have had that stance back into the 1800's, it was questioned recently someone wanted to change it, and they confirmed that it would not be changed. The thing that people don't understand about the SBC is it's not like being Catholic with the Pope making all the rules, we as Southern Baptists don't have to agree with the Baptist Faith and Message, the individual churches don't even have to accept it and can still be members of the association, the church that I belong to doesn't accept it, and we are still members of the association, women can be preachers at my church and the SBC can't do anything about it because of the nature of thier own by-laws that say that we don't have to comply with the BF&M because we are autonomous. (sp?)

Religion encourages the creation of fanatics.

How many Athiest suicide bombers have you ever heard of? Honestly?

Like I've been saying, religion (and hence, any lack thereof) isn't the problem. Atheists are just people. Religious folk are just people. It's fanatics that you need to watch out for. I'm not bashing atheism, dude.Ideologies is what you need to watch out for. Religions are ideologies. Atheism isn't. But does not mean atheists can't be fanatical proponents of some ideology or other.

Religion encourages the creation of fanatics.

How many Athiest suicide bombers have you ever heard of? Honestly?
Aren't the Tamil tigers buddhist? :confused:

I think atheists think anyone who beleives in God is a Creationalist who takes the Bible literally, and is a devout Christian. Probably the reason why there are so many atheists out there in the first place.

Religion isn’t bad just because it starts wars and promotes death. It also stifles human creativity, retards scientific and social progress and causes people to feel guilty when they have done nothing that a reasonable person would say was wrong.
This is true occasionally. BUT I BEG OF YOU! DO NOT, I REPEAT, DO NOT CONFUSE RELIGION WITH THEISM!!! PLEASE!

From the way I've heard people on this forum refer to religious folk (most of whom are not suicide-bombing maniacs), I'd say atheism can lead to fanaticism just as easily.

And if you believe Disco can't hurt you, you're part of the problem. :D


lol!

oustanding post!

and yes,non religous folks are just as fanatic or worse then religous folk.
i have seen right wing zealots go mental,and i have seen more then i care too see..leftie fanatics,imply that if you dont think their way...your a nazi...a closeminded idiot..ad nauseam.

stupidity knows no boundries,religous or not...and i am not religous,spiritual maybe.

kills me how the openminded left resort to insults when one disagrees with their notions,or impugns ones intellect if you dont think lockstep with them.

pretty much hypocrits if you ask me...

and the right,is just as bad,but i will say the right argues fairer,or is at least willing to put their money where their mouth is...and usually does not resort to namecalling.
i have seen that here as well...from the extreme right.

i prefer the middle...

american politics(as related to left and right..not the world's)is like a bad marriage.
alot of of yelling and intractable positions(even if knowingly wrong)just to spite the other,or win the position.

pathetic.

True, religion is not bad in and of itself, it's the actions of fanatics...But it seems religion is far more likely to engender fanaticism than Atheism or Disco.
Of course, politics is great at creating fanatics. After all, some of the most destructive mass murderers of the previous century were atheists.