NationStates Jolt Archive

Well, there are lots of debates on this issue. Some scientists believe this is just a natural warming cycle the earth is going through. I think different, very different. Climate change is real and is happening now, we as a planet need to act now and fast if we want to save it from losing potentially whole species of animals. America are responsible for 25% of the C02 emissions and thay need the sort that out by finding renewable energy sources, eg. wind. China and India are as well massive polluters but not as much as America!:mad:

Well it is a natural cycle. The earth goes through cold and warm periods. Its just that humans have sped up the process due to the amount of pollution being pumped up into the atmosphere.

you may be right. some will agree with you and i kinda do. for example the earth warmed up after the cooling period of the ice age

more to the point America needs to sort out their energy comsumption problem and the amount of carbon-dioxide the country emits

The planet is in no danger from us, though we may be in danger from the planet.

I'd also like to forward the idea that maybe global warming might actually delay the next ice age.

Well it is a natural cycle. The earth goes through cold and warm periods. Its just that humans have sped up the process due to the amount of pollution being pumped up into the atmosphere.
..............Proving humanity is the stupidest race ever in the universe.

That means we are all stupid.

you are saying that global warming is good? that we should let it happen? let millions of species of animals die from temprature increase?:confused:

..............Proving humanity is the stupidest race ever in the universe.

That means we are all stupid.
Now now, there could be far stupider races out there that we'll never know about because they're too far away and thier religous practices was to stare into the sun wearing meat necklaces during the glafornnackian feeding cycle...

you are saying that global warming is good? that we should let it happen? let millions of species of animals die from temprature increase?:confused:
No. We should get SMARTER and start using hydrogen fueled cars and stop pumping these ATROCIUS gases and JUNKY JUNKISH JUNK into the atmosphere, therefore making our brains BIGGER therefore making humanity NOT the most stupidest race ever in the universe!

I'm not mad, in case you were wondering.

..............Proving humanity is the stupidest race ever in the universe.

That means we are all stupid.
you re talking utter crap you are

you are saying that global warming is good? that we should let it happen? let millions of species of animals die from temprature increase?:confused:
Cause, you know, that's never happened before in the history of the earth. Not to mention that if almost any one of the 'dire' predictions is true than it's too late to stop by reducing emissions.

Now now, there could be far stupider races out there that we'll never know about because they're too far away and thier religous practices was to stare into the sun wearing meat necklaces during the glafornnackian feeding cycle...
You're right!

And their main language could be THIS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leet).

it may be too late or it may not be, we just don't know. we can at least try our best to stop global warming. build more energy efficient cars, hydrogen cars, electric cars, even cut out planes entirely.

you re talking utter crap you are
*Performs roundhouse kick to Smegsenland's head, knocking him down to the floor*
NOBODY SAYS THAT ABOUT ME!!!!!!!!:upyours:

look to put it simply, DESTROY ALL MODERN PLANES!!!!!!!!! one plane trip for hlondon heathrow to new york releases the amount of emissions a month worth of driving does!!!!!THATS HOW BAD PLANES ARE

it may be too late or it may not be, we just don't know. we can at least try our best to stop global warming. build more energy efficient cars, hydrogen cars, electric cars, even cut out planes entirely.
They're already working on the cars. But cutting off planes? Then the fastest way to get across the ocean would be by boat, and we know how long THAT takes............................................................................................... .................................................................................................... .........................<and it takes longer than THAT, pally!

No. We should get SMARTER and start using hydrogen fueled cars and stop pumping these ATROCIUS gases and JUNKY JUNKISH JUNK into the atmosphere, therefore making our brains BIGGER therefore making humanity NOT the most stupidest race ever in the universe!

I'm not mad, in case you were wondering.
Do you think the oil companies would allow that to happen? Not until every source of oil has been sucked dry, and then it'll be too late. Yes, I'd also want humanity to wake up, but the world revolves around money (some people even deny the globe's heating up at all). Cleaner options are far too expensive and primitive at the moment.

PS: Getting rid of planes, trains and boats won't help. At all.

look s to put it simply, DESTROY ALL MODERN PLANES!!!!!!!!! one plane trip for hlondon heathrow to new york releases the amount of emissions a month worth of driving!!!!! THATS HOW BAD PLANES ARE
Y'know, I really don't care how long a BOAT takes to get there, so yeah, DESTROY PLANEZ!!!111211@@!!!!!!#33

what will happen when we run out of oil, gas and coal eh? what do we do then? we need to think fast if we are going to find renewable energy sources

Do you think the oil companies would allow that to happen? Not until every source of oil has been sucked dry, and then it'll be too late. Yes, I'd also want humanity to wake up, but the world revolves around money (some people even deny the globe's heating up at all). Cleaner options are far too expensive and primitive at the moment.

PS: Getting rid of planes, trains and boats won't help. At all.
Saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay, you're right. The only thing stopping us from a cleaner Earth are those danged greedy OIL COMPANIES!!!!
Grrrrrrrr, those greedy sons-o'-more greedy inbreds are gonna pay for the damage they've done to this Earth.

Yeeeeeeeeesssssssssss You've Got The Right Idea!!

Yeeeeeeeeesssssssssss You've Got The Right Idea!!
What idea? Whatever it is, point it out, ok?

Saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay, you're right. The only thing stopping us from a cleaner Earth are those danged greedy OIL COMPANIES!!!!
Grrrrrrrr, those greedy sons-o'-more greedy inbreds are gonna pay for the damage they've done to this Earth.
this idea!!

Saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay, you're right. The only thing stopping us from a cleaner Earth are those danged greedy OIL COMPANIES!!!!
Grrrrrrrr, those greedy sons-o'-more greedy inbreds are gonna pay for the damage they've done to this Earth.
No, I didn't say that. They're just a part of the problem.

this idea!!
Oh, that one! Thanks!

*Pulls out a hairdryer for a random reason*

and thats what i'm saying. the oil companies are part of the problem!!

look to put it simply, DESTROY ALL MODERN PLANES!!!!!!!!! one plane trip for hlondon heathrow to new york releases the amount of emissions a month worth of driving does!!!!!THATS HOW BAD PLANES ARE

Would you really, though? How many millions of people's lives are made that much easier by plane travel? Other modes of transportation would be more energy efficient, surely, but would you give up flying from New York to London in 6-7 hours versus taking a trip aboard the QE2 for a week and a half? More importantly, would those millions of people give that up?

No, I didn't say that. They're just a part of the problem.
Oh.

*Puts away hairdryer that was pulled out earlier for a random reason*

whats more important? people having holidyas in new york or the planet risking mass extinction for global warming

and thats what i'm saying. the oil companies are part of the problem!!
Yes, they are. They've ALWAYS been a pain in the BITCHIN' arse at one point or another!

whats more important? people having holidyas in new york or the planet risking mass extinction for global warming
The second one.

Do you think the oil companies would allow that to happen? Not until every source of oil has been sucked dry, and then it'll be too late. Yes, I'd also want humanity to wake up, but the world revolves around money (some people even deny the globe's heating up at all). Cleaner options are far too expensive and primitive at the moment.

PS: Getting rid of planes, trains and boats won't help. At all.

What is so bad about letting all the oil reserves dry up, really? Shouldn't that be the environmentalist's dream, no fossil fuels to tempt us with cheap energy? If all of it runs out, well, then, I think that most nations would have to find alternate fuels, because there would be no oil to fall back on.

whats more important? people having holidyas in new york or the planet risking mass extinction for global warming

Holidays. Definitely. For one, because you're overstating the problem. Yes, the Earth may be increasing in temperature. But mass extinction? From a recorded .11 degree celsius increase since 1988? Don't think so. Especially considering that in the half century before that, the temperature was actually dropping. Hmmm....

a 3-6 degree temprature increase is expected in the next 50 years if we keep on living the lifestyle we are. this increas is huge and yes it will endanger many animals. polar bears are already having to adapt to the melting ice caps in the antartic or where ever they live

a 3-6 degree temprature increase is expected in the next 50 years if we keep on living the lifestyle we are. this increas is huge and yes it will endanger many animals. polar bears are already having to adapt to the melting ice caps in the antartic or where ever they live

Perhaps, but it is very difficult to predict what will happen ten days in advance, much less fifty years. Sure, its expected, but that result is achieved by extrapolating current trends. Extrapolation is dangerous, particularly when climate prediction is as unreliable as it is.

Edit: Polar bears are in the Arctic.

prediction may not be 100% reliable but it is the best source we have at this moment

prediction may not be 100% reliable but it is the best source we have at this moment

Personally, I don't see climate change as that big of a situation or "catastrophe" as so many believe. Sure, the Earth may be heating up in some places, but that is certainly not the case uniformly around the world. There is currently no conclusive evidence that has adequately demonstrated the extremes posed as imminent. However, we should still work toward different forms of energy.

But keep in mind, that while it is impossible to predict the velocity and momentum of a single atom of oxygen in a sealed vessel that is being heated, it is possible to calculate the raise in pressure of within that said vessel.

In other words, while we do not have the ability to predict the fine details of the earth's climate, we can predict the rough direction it is heading towards. And thus far the direction is up, with the thermostate going higher.

How much higher is open to debate. But the earth's temperature is going up. So don't forget that.

This debate is like the ozon hole debate in the early 1980s. Anybody else remember it? There was this big debate on the existence of the ozone hole. Was it really real? Or the imagination of mad anti refrigerator scientist. (As CFCs was one of the most stable gasses known to man. How could be break down and cause damage)

Why did it dissapear on some years if there really was a hole? Was this just part of nature, as the ozon layer did fluctuate in density over the course of a year/decade.

And if there was a hole was real so what? It causes skin canser? Was that really significant cause for concern? Since the ozone hole was over the antarctic, did it matter? No people lived there. (This was before the problem got so bad that three holes appeared, one permenant hole over each pole and one fluctuating belt over the equartor.)

So people, the whole global warming debate is old. It is going through the motions of self denial. Things will only change when the problem becomes so bad (like the ozone holes becoming permenant rather then fluctuating gaps and affecting people) that the powers that be can mobilise themselves and do something. What we need is a few good old cities to be flooded by increasing sea level due to global warming.


PS. Last I heard it was estimated that the ozone hole will be healed mid 2150s or 2200s. Thanks to the ban on CFC. Till then sunscreen. *Sometimes things can be changed.

P.S.S: To clear up a point -
A hydrogen economy is not the way to solve global warming. Think about it for a second. Hydrogen is a gas, and when piping any gas around there will be some loses. Hydrogen is a light gas and will float to the top of our atmosphere. Hydrogen on exposure to UV light react with oxygen. If there is enough hydrogen been leaked into the atmosphere, it'll reach into the upper atmosphere and cause ozone depletion.

Nobody has said any thing about this because nobody actually thinks the world will run directly on hydrogen gas. The stuff is too low density, too volatile. All that hydrogen economy stuff that politicians say is just plain missinterperated science. Sounds cool, sounds environmentally friendly, sounds like Startrek technobabble. Methanol will probably be the energy sourse that the consumer will use. Where that methanol will come from is where the war against fossil fuels will be waged.


Personally, I don't see climate change as that big of a situation or "catastrophe" as so many believe. Sure, the Earth may be heating up in some places, but that is certainly not the case uniformly around the world. There is currently no conclusive evidence that has adequately demonstrated the extremes posed as imminent. However, we should still work toward different forms of energy.

By any chance do you live in a temperate climate? Are you malaria free at this moment? Yellow fever free? Dengee Fever free? If yes... treasure the next two decades. It will be the last.

Global warming is not just ... 'Oh boy it is so warm the lawn just died.' Or 'The sea is rising and will drown a few cities/nations'. Global warming will not be limited to mass migations as Nations dissapears under the sea. It is also a change in the ecology of the planet. Food crops will change as traditional crops fail. Wars will be fought over water and crop land.

And finally pest, insect habitats will advance further north as winters are no longer severe enough to kill those nasty critters. And with the expension of the range of many insect species, so does the many diseases these insect carry. (And not all insect born diseases affect humans, many also attack plants...food crops being the most important)

So, take this as a smack on the head. <twack> Global warming doesn't need to increase sea level, flood cities, intensify storms, turn forest to deserts. It can do slight simple things like allow insects to move further north. Push fish stocks north or to extinction as the sea becomes too warm. Sure humanity won't go extinct but life can become just that little bit more of a struggle.

Cleaner options are far too expensive and primitive at the moment.

Actually, most sources of alternative energy are fully cost competitive with oil and gas; wind and solar are particularly cost-effective, and wind is the cheapest form of power in the world having surpassed natural gas and coal in the past few years. The industry and the technology are advancing by leaps and bounds, and it's being reflected in the increasing share that alternatives play in power and transportation.

Give them a decade, and alternatives will be on the path to not just supplementing but also replacing oil. That's why oil companies are starting to make moves towards alternative energy ventures; the business is good now, but they know that their business will have to evolve past oil in order to remain competitive.

Do the hydrogen fuel proponents actually have a plan for getting this hydrogen? You need a bunch of electricity to separate the hydrogen from water - you want all that from clean sources? Do you know how much power that is?

Do the hydrogen fuel proponents actually have a plan for getting this hydrogen? You need a bunch of electricity to separate the hydrogen from water - you want all that from clean sources? Do you know how much power that is?

Ideally, the electricity would come from renewable sources like wind or solar. Of course the only cheap way of producing it now is from natural gas so it's not exactly a solution to the fossil fuel "problem". Hydrogen will not become viable until alternative energy is developed enough to support the infrastructure; that'll take around 10 years barring a plunge in oil and gas prices. After that, it'll take even longer to build the distribution and production network for the hydrogen; we're better off using hydrogen in fuel cells rather than combusting it, since biofuels are a lot more practical for that and far closer to being competitive with fossil fuels.

Oil will remain a major source of energy at least until 2020, and will probably decline in importance after that as production levels off and prices rise. There's a lot more natural gas both proven and unproven, so it'll likely remain important along with coal past 2050...after that, it's totally speculative as to their role in the economy.

Oil will remain a major source of energy at least until 2020, and will probably decline in importance after that as production levels off and prices rise. There's a lot more natural gas both proven and unproven, so it'll likely remain important along with coal past 2050...after that, it's totally speculative as to their role in the economy.

There is a LOT of oil left in the ground, but producing it is going to get a bit slow.

I hope there is global warming. One, I live in Wisconsin. I want to fry my ass off.

I also hope there is a huge energy crisis in wich a shit load of modern technology is obliterated so we can go back to the 1800's. that would kick ass. war with muskets and cavalry and everything.

There is a LOT of oil left in the ground, but producing it is going to get a bit slow.

That's what I mean; we're not going to run out of oil physically (and never will), it's just going to get harder and more expensive to produce. Peak oil will not be a geological phenomenon, but rather one motivated by simple economics...and that's why it won't be a disaster for the world economy.

We'll only peak because it won't be profitable to produce additional oil, not because it will run out. The world economy will be well prepared by that point to transition.

I also hope there is a huge energy crisis in wich a shit load of modern technology is obliterated so we can go back to the 1800's. that would kick ass. war with muskets and cavalry and everything.

I'm afraid it won't happen. However, by the 2030's or 2050's we'll probably have the technology to create a virtual version of the 19th century or any time for people to visit, live, or fight in. Real-time RPing...

Ideally, the electricity would come from renewable sources like wind or solar.

Wind I get. Solar frightens me a bit.

The effective albedo of a solar panel is 0. It absorbs all of the sunlight it receives, and ultimately converts all of it to heat. If we had enough solar panels to make a significant dent in the world's energy demand, wouldn't that itself cause a lot of warming?

Wind I get. Solar frightens me a bit.

The effective albedo of a solar panel is 0. It absorbs all of the sunlight it receives, and ultimately converts all of it to heat. If we had enough solar panels to make a significant dent in the world's energy demand, wouldn't that itself cause a lot of warming?

Ideally the heat from the solar panels would be used just like an ordinary cogeneration plant; it would be used to heat houses or even water, because solar has the most potential for individual houses. It's probably not going to be used in giant farms like wind but rather on a household scale due to its flexibility. It could also be used for desalinization, an energy intensive process that would be well suited for solar power and heat.

The heat would be used rather than just released, mitigating any effects it might have on global temperatures.

sorry i have not been able to make any new posts, my internet was'nt working for a while. What have i missed

The heat would be used rather than just released...

Where it would eventually become heat.

...mitigating any effects it might have on global temperatures.

Not so much.

Where it would eventually become heat.

True, but all forms of power generation produce heat at all steps of the process, so it would not have a significant effect on global temperatures. Also, were the solar power to replace fossil fuel plants the increase in albedo from the panels would probably be far outweighed by the reduction in greenhouse gases.

Not so much.

We won't know until there are enough solar plants to have a significant effect on the planet's albedo and power mix.

It is impossible to predict how close we are to any kind of critical point that would mark the end of the planet. It is hard to deny that we are certainly creating a problem, but to predict the result of our folly is absurd.

We will probably all be dead by tomorrow.

Yes, most probably it is too late.

We won't know until there are enough solar plants to have a significant effect on the planet's albedo and power mix.

You mean we can't use those fancy climate models for stuff like that?

Or are they just fudged to produce the right outcomes with specific inputs?

Well it is a natural cycle. The earth goes through cold and warm periods. Its just that humans have sped up the process due to the amount of pollution being pumped up into the atmosphere.
Right on the head here.
I think that if we are able to speed it up, we might be able to slow it down if we try. But, eventually we'll hit another ice age.

*Starts playing 'The Circle of Life'*