NationStates Jolt Archive

I have a friend who is having an affair with a married man. It's has been going on for quite some time, several years in fact, and it's the same cycle again and again.

He's a Jewish man with a crap load of money, and a family back home in Israel. He fly’s in to see her on business trips and although he books a room in a hotel he always stays with her. He wines her and dines her, gives her anything she wants, but on more than one occasion she has discovered that he's sleeping with other people while he's with her.

Now personally, I'm not surprised and I don’t believe she should have expected any different, but every time it's the same thing. They fight, she gets pissed off, sleeps with someone else to make him jealous, he says he is, she feels in control and lets him back in, and then he walks all over again and again.

As a friend I refrain from judging her, I keep my mouth shut and I'm there for her if she needs me, but it's her life and it's her emotions.

I just don’t understand why someone would let this pattern of behaviour continue - she's a smart woman, she could do better, but apparently she loves him.

I want to get in her head and work out WHY she keeps doing it. Does anyone have any thoughts on it?

convenience, perhaps?

Maybe fear of commitment. Or just doesn't want to commit. Either/or.

This way, she doesn't have to make a commitment to a guy. She gets some of the benefits of a relationship without feeling forced into making a definite decision and being forced into allowing someone else into her life.

convenience, perhaps?

Maybe fear of commitment. Or just doesn't want to commit. Either/or.

This way, she doesn't have to make a commitment to a guy. She gets some of the benefits of a relationship without feeling forced into making a definite decision and being forced into allowing someone else into her life.Yups. She prolly haven't got her priorities sorted & use the guy to push off doing it. I did the same thing for a few years, 'cos it was easier that trying to figure out whether I wanted settle down a bit, drag a lover along with me or give up on having a lovelife.

Having a fall-guy is a great way to avoid confronting the general confusion that is life.

I hate to say this, but your friend is kinda dumb.

The man is married, and fucking around on his wife...with her.
What on earth would make her think that he would be faithful to HER?

He isnt faithful to the woman he married.

If a man is willing to fuck around on the woman he married, he's more than willing to fuck around on his mistress.
In fact, your friend needs to realize that she will probably be temporary.
This guy will get tired of fighting with a woman he fucks, and has little actual emotional attachment to.

He's gonna get tired of her, and dump her.
Thats how this works.

Sadly, he'll find one that isnt as jealous ad your friend is, or is hotter, or younger, or whatver, and she will be history.

As reprehensible as that sounds, your friend doesnt have the right to get angry.
She knew what she was getting into from the very start, and it sounds to me like shes enjoying the money and gifts he gives her.
Im guessing shes a bit shallow, herself.

She needs to find someone who isnt using her like an object, maybe.

I have a friend who is having an affair with a married man. It's has been going on for quite some time, several years in fact, and it's the same cycle again and again.

He's a Jewish man with a crap load of money, and a family back home in Israel. He fly’s in to see her on business trips and although he books a room in a hotel he always stays with her. He wines her and dines her, gives her anything she wants, but on more than one occasion she has discovered that he's sleeping with other people while he's with her.

Now personally, I'm not surprised and I don’t believe she should have expected any different, but every time it's the same thing. They fight, she gets pissed off, sleeps with someone else to make him jealous, he says he is, she feels in control and lets him back in, and then he walks all over again and again.

As a friend I refrain from judging her, I keep my mouth shut and I'm there for her if she needs me, but it's her life and it's her emotions.

I just don’t understand why someone would let this pattern of behaviour continue - she's a smart woman, she could do better, but apparently she loves him.

I want to get in her head and work out WHY she keeps doing it. Does anyone have any thoughts on it?


So she's angry because the man she is helping to cheat on his wife is cheating on her with other similarly unprincipled people?

Classic.

And she thinks that by sleeping with others (thereby showing him he doesn't have exclusive use of her) she's annoying him?

I think she is foolish and he is EXACTLY where he wants to be.

So she's angry because the man she is helping to cheat on his wife is cheating on her with other similarly unprincipled people?

Classic.

And she thinks that by sleeping with others (thereby showing him he doesn't have exclusive use of her) she's annoying him?

I think she is foolish and he is EXACTLY where he wants to be.


Indeed.

Like I said....kinda dumb.

I think she is foolish and he is EXACTLY where he wants to be.Possibly, but possibly not. She may well be EXACTLY where she wants to be; in a position where she can blame her fucked up partner for her own inability to figure out just what she wants. I strongly suspect that's the case, since we seem to be talking about a long distance relationship with a guy she rarely sees.

Well, none of us know her and people can have an awful lot of subconscious motives for doing what they're doing in their lives - we wouldn't really know, would we?

Nevertheless, I think Demented Hamsters and Similization have most likely hit the nail right on the head.

I agree with all of you!

I have a friend who is having an affair with a married man. It's has been going on for quite some time, several years in fact, and it's the same cycle again and again.

He's a Jewish man with a crap load of money, and a family back home in Israel. He fly’s in to see her on business trips and although he books a room in a hotel he always stays with her. He wines her and dines her, gives her anything she wants, but on more than one occasion she has discovered that he's sleeping with other people while he's with her.

Now personally, I'm not surprised and I don’t believe she should have expected any different, but every time it's the same thing. They fight, she gets pissed off, sleeps with someone else to make him jealous, he says he is, she feels in control and lets him back in, and then he walks all over again and again.

As a friend I refrain from judging her, I keep my mouth shut and I'm there for her if she needs me, but it's her life and it's her emotions.

I just don’t understand why someone would let this pattern of behaviour continue - she's a smart woman, she could do better, but apparently she loves him.

I want to get in her head and work out WHY she keeps doing it. Does anyone have any thoughts on it?


There's a huge huge difference between knowing you could do better and being able to give up the cosy feeling (even if it is nothing but an illusion) that there's somebody there who cares for you and you care for him.

I've been through some similar situation recently, made actually worse by the fact that it was my first ever love and relationship. Nobody in the whole wide world could make me see that he actually did treat me like a doormat. I would cling on and just hope, hope, hope for better times. Hope can be your worst enemy.
I wish I could give you advice on how to help your friend, but the fact is I would never have left him on my own accord. He left me, that's how it ended.

:(

I hate to say this, but your friend is kinda dumb.

The man is married, and fucking around on his wife...with her.
What on earth would make her think that he would be faithful to HER?

He isnt faithful to the woman he married.

If a man is willing to fuck around on the woman he married, he's more than willing to fuck around on his mistress.
In fact, your friend needs to realize that she will probably be temporary.
This guy will get tired of fighting with a woman he fucks, and has little actual emotional attachment to.

He's gonna get tired of her, and dump her.
Thats how this works.

Sadly, he'll find one that isnt as jealous ad your friend is, or is hotter, or younger, or whatver, and she will be history.

As reprehensible as that sounds, your friend doesnt have the right to get angry.
She knew what she was getting into from the very start, and it sounds to me like shes enjoying the money and gifts he gives her.
Im guessing shes a bit shallow, herself.

She needs to find someone who isnt using her like an object, maybe.


You're a bit harsh one her for calling her shallow. Emotions and rationality don't always go together. Although I have to agree with your general prediction...

You're a bit harsh one her for calling her shallow. Emotions and rationality don't always go together. Although I have to agree with your general prediction...

Harsh?

Maybe.

But the girl is definately getting something out of this, or why would she continue it?

She must know that its a dead-end relationship.
If she does, then whats in it for her?

The sex?

Or is the fact that this guy is rich, and buys her exspensive gifts?

I want to get in her head and work out WHY she keeps doing it. Does anyone have any thoughts on it? Love/lust and logic aren't all that compatible. You can know that you shouldn't be doing something but want to do it at the same time.

Love/lust and logic aren't all that compatible. You can know that you shouldn't be doing something but want to do it at the same time.

I can totally sympathise with that

I just dont get why after 6 years, she's still doing it

but I've always maintained it's not my place to understand it (even though i want to), it's my place as her friend to be supportive of her when she needs me.

Harsh?

Maybe.

But the girl is definately getting something out of this, or why would she continue it?

She must know that its a dead-end relationship.
If she does, then whats in it for her?

The sex?

Or is the fact that this guy is rich, and buys her exspensive gifts?

As I said, I suspect an emotional issue, commonly called love. Or maybe simple emotional dependence. That's what it was for me, anyway. I couldn't have cared less about his money...

If she was in it only for his money, why would she mind him fucking other women?

Harsh?

Maybe.

But the girl is definately getting something out of this, or why would she continue it?

She must know that its a dead-end relationship.
If she does, then whats in it for her?

The sex?

Or is the fact that this guy is rich, and buys her exspensive gifts?

I think a lot of it is money related. When I moved country last year I'd only had my car 6 months (Brand new mazda 3 sports edition - god i loved that car) and i had to sell it, and he bought it off me for her as a gift - we're talking $25,000 of gift right there... mind you, he did it mainly to help me out

I can totally sympathise with that

I just dont get why after 6 years, she's still doing it

but I've always maintained it's not my place to understand it (even though i want to), it's my place as her friend to be supportive of her when she needs me.

There's no way to "understand" that, really. Rationally, I wouldn't be surprised if she herself didn't understand it, either. It could be the fear of being alone again, of having to start all over, of the time it will take to get so close to another person...
And keep in mind, as her friend, you'll hear more about the negative bits than about what she regards as positive. So it'll be even harder for you to say what it is she sees in him.

I have a friend who is having an affair with a married man. It's has been going on for quite some time, several years in fact, and it's the same cycle again and again.

He's a Jewish man with a crap load of money, and a family back home in Israel. He fly’s in to see her on business trips and although he books a room in a hotel he always stays with her. He wines her and dines her, gives her anything she wants, but on more than one occasion she has discovered that he's sleeping with other people while he's with her.

Now personally, I'm not surprised and I don’t believe she should have expected any different, but every time it's the same thing. They fight, she gets pissed off, sleeps with someone else to make him jealous, he says he is, she feels in control and lets him back in, and then he walks all over again and again.

As a friend I refrain from judging her, I keep my mouth shut and I'm there for her if she needs me, but it's her life and it's her emotions.

I just don’t understand why someone would let this pattern of behaviour continue - she's a smart woman, she could do better, but apparently she loves him.

I want to get in her head and work out WHY she keeps doing it. Does anyone have any thoughts on it?
She helps a man cheat on his wife and then gets POed when that man cheats on her...you need better friends.

Nobody in the whole wide world could make me see that he actually did treat me like a doormat. I would cling on and just hope, hope, hope for better times. Hope can be your worst enemy. Bah, now I feel all heartless and stupid - you're absolutely right, in many situations like these this is the actual motivation rather than any "Hmm, I always go for unattainable guys because that way I don't have to take responsibility for my own happiness / figure out what I really want".

I know it would be for me.

:(

Nope. There are things which I plain can't figure out at all - apart from stating that someone might be just plain soft in the head.

I've met people before, who aren't truelly happy UNLESS someone else is treating them as a chattel.

AND before I forget:

:fluffle: fluffletime!

So she's angry because the man she is helping to cheat on his wife is cheating on her with other similarly unprincipled people?

Classic.

And she thinks that by sleeping with others (thereby showing him he doesn't have exclusive use of her) she's annoying him?

I think she is foolish and he is EXACTLY where he wants to be.

Quoted for truth.

/thread

As I said, I suspect an emotional issue, commonly called love. Or maybe simple emotional dependence. That's what it was for me, anyway. I couldn't have cared less about his money...

If she was in it only for his money, why would she mind him fucking other women?

Jealousy.

No woman that I have ever met, felt anything but rage when discovering the man she was sleeping with, was sleeping with someone else.

Nope. There are things which I plain can't figure out at all - apart from stating that someone might be just plain soft in the head.

I've met people before, who aren't truelly happy UNLESS someone else is treating them as a chattel.

That makes sense, she was abused as a kid, so it's kind of the only male effection she's ever know, if you can call it effection... attention is probably a better word

and wb

I think a lot of it is money related. When I moved country last year I'd only had my car 6 months (Brand new mazda 3 sports edition - god i loved that car) and i had to sell it, and he bought it off me for her as a gift - we're talking $25,000 of gift right there... mind you, he did it mainly to help me out


So, while im not saying she doesnt have actual feelings for this guy, would you say the money is a big or small part of it?

That makes sense, she was abused as a kid, so it's kind of the only male effection she's ever know, if you can call it effection... attention is probably a better word

and wb

You can't really call it "effection." "Affection," perhaps...

You can't really call it "effection." "Affection," perhaps...

That too :p

I have a friend who is having an affair with a married man. It's has been going on for quite some time, several years in fact, and it's the same cycle again and again.
*snip for length*
How old is this woman?

So, while im not saying she doesnt have actual feelings for this guy, would you say the money is a big or small part of it?

she maintains it's not, but I think subconciously it is, it would have to be.

How old is this woman?

Shes in her Mid 40's


and before anyone jumps to this conclusion - no, it's not me

That makes sense, she was abused as a kid, so it's kind of the only male effection she's ever know, if you can call it effection... attention is probably a better word

and wb


Thanks! :fluffle: to you.


Getting abused as a kid is an 'excellent' way to start getting addicted to the feeling of being controlled. Cold Turkey someone off it, and death wishes may ensue. In the same sense that some old lags work hard at getting back into the nick.

Shes in her Mid 40's


and before anyone jumps to this conclusion - no, it's not me

Riiiiiiight...you have this "friend"... :p

Thanks! :fluffle: to you.


Getting abused as a kid is an 'excellent' way to start getting addicted to the feeling of being controlled. Cold Turkey someone off it, and death wishes may ensue. In the same sense that some old lags work hard at getting back into the nick.

:fluffle:

yeah...I suppose it's started concerning me because her daughter is at an age now where she's thinking about boys etc - and she's a bright kid (wants to be like me when she 'grows up' - bless) and I worry about the example it sets.

Riiiiiiight...you have this "friend"... :p

lol

ask boggy... I dont LOOK 40ish :p

Jealousy.

No woman that I have ever met, felt anything but rage when discovering the man she was sleeping with, was sleeping with someone else.

*lol
You just met the first one, then. :D

:fluffle:

yeah...I suppose it's started concerning me because her daughter is at an age now where she's thinking about boys etc - and she's a bright kid (wants to be like me when she 'grows up' - bless) and I worry about the example it sets.

:fluffle: to Missie.

You be the example - and not her mum.

Shes in her Mid 40's

Then she's old enough to be told to shut the hell up and quit whining.

If she wants to have a relationship with a married man, then that's between her and him. If she wants to have a relationship with a man who cheats, that's between her and him. If she wants to have a relationship purely for money, or for sex, or for whatever, then that's her call.

But if she wants to bitch about the fact that married men who cheat are *GASP* also very likely to cheat on their mistresses, then she needs to get the hell over herself. If he'll cheat WITH you, he'll cheat ON you.

If she wants to bitch that the married man she's fucking is not showing her much respect, then she needs to answer the goddam clue phone: if he was an honorable person who sincerely loved you, he'd already be divorced.

:fluffle: to Missie.

You be the example - and not her mum.

I try

Then she's old enough to be told to shut the hell up and quit whining.

If she wants to have a relationship with a married man, then that's between her and him. If she wants to have a relationship with a man who cheats, that's between her and him. If she wants to have a relationship purely for money, or for sex, or for whatever, then that's her call.

But if she wants to bitch about the fact that married men who cheat are *GASP* also very likely to cheat on their mistresses, then she needs to get the hell over herself. If he'll cheat WITH you, he'll cheat ON you.

If she wants to bitch that the married man she's fucking is not showing her much respect, then she needs to answer the goddam clue phone: if he was an honorable person who sincerely loved you, he'd already be divorced.


*grin* Life can be ever so much more ironeous than that, really.

I recall my mom having a 'good' friend who was 2nd wife to a rich dude some 30 years older than herself.
She had started out as his mistress and quite succesfully removed wife number 1.
At the grand old age of 32, she discovered that his 20-something year old secretary was now in the process of changing from mistress-2 to wife-3.

Life is soooooo unfair, she whined.
I might add that she made a not-quite-good enough attempt to draw my attention during the whining.
*shrug* agewise, I suppose soon-to-be-wife3 would have been closer to my age and all.

*grin* Life can be ever so much more ironeous than that, really.

"ironeous" = ?


I recall my mom having a 'good' friend who was 2nd wife to a rich dude some 30 years older than herself.
She had started out as his mistress and quite succesfully removed wife number 1.
At the grand old age of 32, she discovered that his 20-something year old secretary was now in the process of changing from mistress-2 to wife-3.

Life is soooooo unfair, she whined.
I might add that she made a not-quite-good enough attempt to draw my attention during the whining.
*shrug* agewise, I suppose soon-to-be-wife3 would have been closer to my age and all.
Yeah, that's pretty much what I was saying.

I suppose part of the reason for the post is I just get frustrated with her.

She reminds me of my mum when she has a drink - she'll have one too many and want to engage in deep and meaningfuls about her upbringing and stuff, and dont get me wrong, I dont mind being a sounding board - but when it's every week it's a bit much.

The advantage is, I can tell her to shut to fuck up, and she doesnt remember the next day ;)

....i think I just went into Bitch mode

"ironeous" = ?


Yeah, that's pretty much what I was saying.

Ironeous - MEEP! ironic. My stupid after lunch.

D'you know what the difference between 'J' and some random bint-in-a-pub is?
The BIAP needs to be sodding drunk before she drowns in ludicrous self-pity.
'J' must've been pulling the self-pity act ever since she had siblings.

I suppose part of the reason for the post is I just get frustrated with her.

She reminds me of my mum when she has a drink - she'll have one too many and want to engage in deep and meaningfuls about her upbringing and stuff, and dont get me wrong, I dont mind being a sounding board - but when it's every week it's a bit much.

The advantage is, I can tell her to shut to fuck up, and she doesnt remember the next day ;)

....i think I just went into Bitch mode

*waves magic wand*
*transform Mssie from bitch to biatch*
YaY!
:fluffle:

I suppose part of the reason for the post is I just get frustrated with her.

She reminds me of my mum when she has a drink - she'll have one too many and want to engage in deep and meaningfuls about her upbringing and stuff, and dont get me wrong, I dont mind being a sounding board - but when it's every week it's a bit much.

The advantage is, I can tell her to shut to fuck up, and she doesnt remember the next day ;)

....i think I just went into Bitch mode
You and I are very different people, I think.

See, if somebody who I really cared about was acting this way, I would slap the proverbial shit out of them. I would ask them why the fuck they're acting like such a dingbat and embarassing themselves with such lame-ass behavior. I wouldn't act as a "sounding board" more than once, because I wouldn't be willing to implicitly encourage their stupidity. The behavior you are describing is no different than a drug addict who really likes to whimper about how hardcore a bender they were just on, and how much she really really ought to kick the habit, right before she turns around and goes looking for her next fix. If I cared about this person, I wouldn't let them use me as a prop for their self-destruction script.

And, on the other hand, if the dingbat in question was not somebody I was terribly close to, then I would quit associating with them in case their dingbattery started to become contageous.

*waves magic wand*
*transform Mssie from bitch to biatch*
YaY!
:fluffle:

lol@biatch :fluffle:

... wait.. does that make me your biatch?

I'll just do what i've always done - sit back and let her do her thing, and make sure her kid knows she's got somewhere to come to if she needs to.

Ironeous - MEEP! ironic. My stupid after lunch.

Lol, no worries...it's so early here that I assumed it was a word I should know, but that my coffee hadn't kicked in yet. :P


D'you know what the difference between 'J' and some random bint-in-a-pub is?
The BIAP needs to be sodding drunk before she drowns in ludicrous self-pity.
'J' must've been pulling the self-pity act ever since she had siblings.
Honestly, how pathetic does a man have to be to have sex with this kind of twit? That's gotta be some serious desperation.

Honestly, how pathetic does a man have to be to have sex with this kind of twit? That's gotta be some serious desperation.

Oh, ouch. :(

You and I are very different people, I think.

See, if somebody who I really cared about was acting this way, I would slap the proverbial shit out of them. I would ask them why the fuck they're acting like such a dingbat and embarassing themselves with such lame-ass behavior. I wouldn't act as a "sounding board" more than once, because I wouldn't be willing to implicitly encourage their stupidity. The behavior you are describing is no different than a drug addict who really likes to whimper about how hardcore a bender they were just on, and how much she really really ought to kick the habit, right before she turns around and goes looking for her next fix. If I cared about this person, I wouldn't let them use me as a prop for their self-destruction script.

And, on the other hand, if the dingbat in question was not somebody I was terribly close to, then I would quit associating with them in case their dingbattery started to become contageous.

I have discourage her ever step of the way, I've never encouraged her relationship, but at the same time I wont tell her how to live her life.

I also wont stop being her friend because of the choices she makes

I understand what you're saying - and you're right, we're just different :)

Lol, no worries...it's so early here that I assumed it was a word I should know, but that my coffee hadn't kicked in yet. :P


Honestly, how pathetic does a man have to be to have sex with this kind of twit? That's gotta be some serious desperation.


As I've said before ( and I know I'm in danger of getting flamed for this ), a very substantial part of the male gender is only interested in the humping-per-se, and not in that in what is humped.

Reproductive strategies are hardwired into our genetic make-up.

*groan* last time I wrote something like this, someone sigged it.
D-d-d'ont!

Then she's old enough to be told to shut the hell up and quit whining.

If she wants to have a relationship with a married man, then that's between her and him. If she wants to have a relationship with a man who cheats, that's between her and him. If she wants to have a relationship purely for money, or for sex, or for whatever, then that's her call.

But if she wants to bitch about the fact that married men who cheat are *GASP* also very likely to cheat on their mistresses, then she needs to get the hell over herself. If he'll cheat WITH you, he'll cheat ON you.

If she wants to bitch that the married man she's fucking is not showing her much respect, then she needs to answer the goddam clue phone: if he was an honorable person who sincerely loved you, he'd already be divorced.

Agreed. Except with an addition to the honorable part. If he was honorable he wouldnt be with her in the first place while married and the whole tangled affair would never have existed.

lol@biatch :fluffle:

... wait.. does that make me your biatch?

I'll just do what i've always done - sit back and let her do her thing, and make sure her kid knows she's got somewhere to come to if she needs to.
:fluffle:
does it? *looks at you inquisitively and perhaps hungrily* does it?
Or pull the kid in beforehand. Or at least have a chat about it.

As I've said before ( and I know I'm in danger of getting flamed for this ), a very substantial part of the male gender is only interested in the humping-per-se, and not in that in what is humped.

Reproductive strategies are hardwired into our genetic make-up.

*groan* last time I wrote something like this, someone sigged it.
D-d-d'ont!

and I'd say this guy of this mentality - he has his good jewish family back home, high up in the community etc, and a woman, or two, in every city he does bueiness in. He doesn't care, he just thinks with his dick - which a lot of men do - he picks easy targets

:fluffle:
does it? *looks at you inquisitively and perhaps hungrily* does it?
Or pull the kid in beforehand. Or at least have a chat about it.

Hmmm...cant really tell, you're the one with the wand

good point actually

Hmmm...cant really tell, you're the one with the wand

good point actually
:fluffle: YaY!
*waves wand* cm'ere then!

As I've said before ( and I know I'm in danger of getting flamed for this ), a very substantial part of the male gender is only interested in the humping-per-se, and not in that in what is humped.

That's true. Those men should stay home and masturbate, instead of sleeping with stupid women...sleeping with them only encourages them to continue being stupid, and I'm tired of having so many stupid people breathing my air and driving on my roads.


Reproductive strategies are hardwired into our genetic make-up.

That's false. Males are not any more or less hardwired for this kind of behavior than females are. It's simply that males are both allowed and encouraged to act this way by many elements of society.

Don't let idiots off the hook by blaming biology. There's no gene for "jackass."

:fluffle: YaY!
*waves wand* cm'ere then!

got any flew powder and i'll find a fire place?

...and i know one thing about you.... i need to be more selective me thinks

:fluffle:

and I'd say this guy of this mentality - he has his good jewish family back home, high up in the community etc, and a woman, or two, in every city he does bueiness in. He doesn't care, he just thinks with his dick - which a lot of men do - he picks easy targets

Spreading his genes. That's what he does.

The payoffs for reproductional strategy aren't the same for men as for women. Heck, they would not function if the pay-offs were not the same.

Agreed. Except with an addition to the honorable part. If he was honorable he wouldnt be with her in the first place while married and the whole tangled affair would never have existed.
That's what I was getting at. An honorable man would have told his wife BEFORE he got with another woman. If his wife wanted to continue being married while he cheated on her, that would be up to the wife at that point. But an honorable person would not lie and slink around.

That's what I was getting at. An honorable man would have told his wife BEFORE he got with another woman. If his wife wanted to continue being married while he cheated on her, that would be up to the wife at that point. But an honorable person would not lie and slink around.

his wife knows - wont leave him because it will discrace the family

its all win win for him

Spreading his genes. That's what he does.

The payoffs for reproductional strategy aren't the same for men as for women. Heck, they would not function if the pay-offs were not the same.
False. In reality, primate females can reap even greater benefits from infidelity than can males.

Honestly, don't try to pin this on biology. It's not supported by the data.

I have discourage her ever step of the way, I've never encouraged her relationship, but at the same time I wont tell her how to live her life.

It's not about telling her how to live her life. It's about telling her that she's embarassing herself, and behaving in a way that is potentially dangerous to her child, and you refuse to be a party to it any more.


I also wont stop being her friend because of the choices she makes

Be her friend if you want, but stop listening to her whine about this. You are giving her EXACTLY what she wants, and, whether you intend to or not, you ARE encouraging her behavior.

That's what I was getting at. An honorable man would have told his wife BEFORE he got with another woman. If his wife wanted to continue being married while he cheated on her, that would be up to the wife at that point. But an honorable person would not lie and slink around.


By that definition, there has never been an honorable person.
I think instead, an honorable person who made a mistake, is one who admits he did it, and accepts the reprocussions of his actions.

1. That's true. Those men should stay home and masturbate, instead of sleeping with stupid women...sleeping with them only encourages them to continue being stupid, 2. and I'm tired of having so many stupid people breathing my air and driving on my roads.


3. That's false. Males are not any more or less hardwired for this kind of behavior than females are. It's simply that males are both allowed and encouraged to act this way by many elements of society.

4. Don't let idiots off the hook by blaming biology. 5. There's no gene for "jackass."

1. Which many of 'em do, btw.
2. *shrug* the Human Race IS at least 50% idiots. Deal with it. Isn't open to modification.
3. Reproductional strategies would not work if men and women acted the same way.
4. Why not? I don't blame biology - I merely note its existence.
5. If it can reproduce, it can't be all that negative. Anyway, I don't buy the extreme forms of reductionism.

It's not about telling her how to live her life. It's about telling her that she's embarassing herself, and behaving in a way that is potentially dangerous to her child, and you refuse to be a party to it any more.


Be her friend if you want, but stop listening to her whine about this. You are giving her EXACTLY what she wants, and, whether you intend to or not, you ARE encouraging her behavior.

You're a feisty little thing aint ya? :)

...again, agreed (to a point)

maybe I should take her on Jerry Springer

By that definition, there has never been an honorable person.

Um, I don't know where you come from, but where I live there are plenty of people who don't cheat on their partners.


I think instead, an honorable person who made a mistake, is one who admits he did it, and accepts the reprocussions of his actions.
That would help, yes.

got any flew powder and i'll find a fire place?

...and i know one thing about you.... i need to be more selective me thinks

:fluffle:

I move with strange people - and you need to know more.
No fireplace. Portakey?

:fluffle:

I move with strange people - and you need to know more.
No fireplace. Portakey?

:fluffle:

*looks for an old boot*

... none spare - sorry

next suggestion

i'm intregued :fluffle:

1. Which many of 'em do, btw.

Clearly not enough, since there are still women who behave in this manner and get laid.


2. *shrug* the Human Race IS at least 50% idiots. Deal with it. Isn't open to modification.

Sure it is. If stupid people never, ever get laid, I can pretty much guarantee you that the population will smarten up right quick. :)


3. Reproductional strategies would not work if men and women acted the same way.

For one thing, that's not necessarily true, and for another thing, I never said anything about men and women acting exactly the same.


4. Why not? I don't blame biology - I merely note its existence.

There is nothing about maleness that innately makes an individual human more or less likely to cheat on a romantic partner. The biology of gender is irrelevant to this topic.

Now, the socialization of gender is quite relavent. But that's got precious little to do with biology.

Um, I don't know where you come from, but where I live there are plenty of people who don't cheat on their partners.


That would help, yes.

You misunderstand....or perhaps I misunderstood you.

You basicaly said that a truly honorable person would tell the wife/husband BEFORE the adultry, and then let her.him make a choice wether to stay.

I seriously doubt very many people ever inform thier spouse of FORTHCOMING adultery.

*looks for an old boot*

... none spare - sorry

next suggestion

i'm intregued :fluffle:
:fluffle: *waves wand* Accio! Accio! Accio! - but what do you know about me?
doormats are ever so strange!

:fluffle: *waves wand* Accio! Accio! Accio! - but what do you know about me?
doormats are ever so strange!

check your telegrams

check your telegrams

*goes checking*

You misunderstand....or perhaps I misunderstood you.

You basicaly said that a truly honorable person would tell the wife/husband BEFORE the adultry, and then let her.him make a choice wether to stay.

I seriously doubt very many people ever inform thier spouse of FORTHCOMING adultery.
Perhaps there aren't many people who do it. So? It's perfectly possible. I've informed a current mate when I was having serious desires for somebody else. It can be hard to do, but being honest is sometimes hard...that doesn't mean you shouldn't do it.

Perhaps there aren't many people who do it. So? It's perfectly possible. I've informed a current mate when I was having serious desires for somebody else. It can be hard to do, but being honest is sometimes hard...that doesn't mean you shouldn't do it.


Ahh, but you didnt actually have sex with the person you were attracted to, did you?

If you had decided to, would you have informed the mate beforehand?
Honesty is always the best policy, sure, but that would take the courage of Batman....

Ahh, but you didnt actually have sex with the person you were attracted to, did you?

If you had decided to, would you have informed the mate beforehand?
Honesty is always the best policy, sure, but that would take the courage of Batman....

...to the bat cave!

sorry... i'm switching between this and the cartoons thread and they're beginning to merge in my head

Ahh, but you didnt actually have sex with the person you were attracted to, did you?

Sometimes, yes. Sometimes, no. I've had partners who said they were ok with having an open relationship, and others who said they were not. In either case, they deserve to know if I am considering having sex with somebody else.


If you had decided to, would you have informed the mate beforehand?

Of course! That's the whole point! If I felt so drawn to somebody else that I was considering cheating, then my partner deserves to know that so they can decide what they want to do in the situation.


Honesty is always the best policy, sure, but that would take the courage of Batman....
Only if you're dating the Joker. :)

I guess maybe it's easier for me because I am very straightforward from the beginning of a relationship. In the past, when I was interested in having only open relationships, I made that known from the beginning. Now that I'm not interested in that, I made my desire for monogamy known from the outset. Having said this kind of stuff up front makes it easier to broach the subject in the future.

1. Clearly not enough, since there are still women who behave in this manner and get laid.


2. Sure it is. If stupid people never, ever get laid, I can pretty much guarantee you that the population will smarten up right quick. :)


3. For one thing, that's not necessarily true, and for another thing, I never said anything about men and women acting exactly the same.


4. There is nothing about maleness that innately makes an individual human more or less likely to cheat on a romantic partner. The biology of gender is irrelevant to this topic.

5. Now, the socialization of gender is quite relavent. But that's got precious little to do with biology.
1. Your point? People are as people do. :p
2. If the Trojan Horse had fowled, we would not have traffic problems like we do.
3. It may not be necessarily true, but it is quite true none-the-less.
4. Romantic is a social construct. Without biological relevance.
5. *grin* then how come it persists? Either it is compatible with the bio-facts of life, or it dissapears.

his wife knows - wont leave him because it will discrace the family

its all win win for him

That makes a difference.
For you.
When your friend is upset with the guy have her moan and whinge to the wife.
"He's cheating on us again!"

That makes a difference.
For you.
When your friend is upset with the guy have her moan and whinge to the wife.
"He's cheating on us again!"

she's actually in contact with the woman he cheated on her with - they talk on the phone - i'm sure they compare notes

she's actually in contact with the woman he cheated on her with - they talk on the phone - i'm sure they compare notes


*laughs hard* sitcom material!

:fluffle:

she's actually in contact with the woman he cheated on her with - they talk on the phone - i'm sure they compare notes

So it is a sort of club. Please tell me you dont agony auntie for the other mistresses too:eek:

*laughs hard* sitcom material!

:fluffle:

she's her own worst enemy

So it is a sort of club. Please tell me you dont agony auntie for the other mistresses too:eek:

do i bollox .. i dont know them .. i'm not interested

hmmm..i'm getting an idea for an agony aunt thread :D

do i bollox .. i dont know them .. i'm not interested

hmmm..i'm getting an idea for an agony aunt thread :D

She's going to be an Agony Aunt?

:eek: :fluffle:

She's going to be an Agony Aunt?

:eek: :fluffle:

no bright spark, me!

That's stupid. Go get a devoted man and date him.
Are you sure it isn't the money? $:D $

That's stupid. Go get a devoted man and date him.
Are you sure it isn't the money? $:D $

Meh.... find one! That's the problem. :p

I just don’t understand why someone would let this pattern of behaviour continue - she's a smart woman, she could do better, but apparently she loves him.

I want to get in her head and work out WHY she keeps doing it. Does anyone have any thoughts on it?
Uh ... better almost anyone than no one?

Meh.... find one! That's the problem. :p
It's easy...hang out with guys twenty-four seven. I do that, and my man's the best! :fluffle:

Meh.... find one! That's the problem. :p
Sorry, Ms. Cabra, but that's complete and utter bullshit. There are enough women who want the "thrill" of dating the "bad boys" to yield a statistically significant percentage of the female population. It's not that there aren't any nice guys out here ( I know LOTS of them ), it's that women don't have enough sense to look for a nice guy. :p

( BUt just so you don't think I'm one-sided about this, the same is true for men being stoopid as well. )

Sorry, Ms. Cabra, but that's complete and utter bullshit. There are enough women who want the "thrill" of dating the "bad boys" to yield a statistically significant percentage of the female population. It's not that there aren't any nice guys out here ( I know LOTS of them ), it's that women don't have enough sense to look for a nice guy. :p

( BUt just so you don't think I'm one-sided about this, the same is true for men being stoopid as well. )
Bad boys suck; they're all grungy. Eeeewwwww.
Nice guys are Orbit clean! No matter what!
And guys aren't stoopid, they're shallow, get it straight, G-man.

Sorry, Ms. Cabra, but that's complete and utter bullshit. There are enough women who want the "thrill" of dating the "bad boys" to yield a statistically significant percentage of the female population. It's not that there aren't any nice guys out here ( I know LOTS of them ), it's that women don't have enough sense to look for a nice guy. :p

( BUt just so you don't think I'm one-sided about this, the same is true for men being stoopid as well. )

No bullshit at all. I've been looking for ages.... all there seems to be out there are bad boys, married men and bores. Not much choice. :(

Ahh, but you didnt actually have sex with the person you were attracted to, did you?

If you had decided to, would you have informed the mate beforehand?
Honesty is always the best policy, sure, but that would take the courage of Batman....

Amazingly enough, when I am in an exclusive relationship and meet someone I am very attracted to – with whom I am going to start an intimate relationship with – I tell the woman I am exclusive with that either we become an open relationship (though not necessarily a completely open one, maybe just a closed threesome) or we have to end the relationship. Somehow I, and several people I know, manage to do this before sleeping with the new person.

Imagine that… there are actually people out there who are open and honest with their significant others.


In this particular case I think that the problem may be one of two possibilities:
1) she is conditioned to take abuse and craves the feeling of being used. One of the women I am dating right now has always had very physically abusive relationships (starting with her father) and is very uncomfortable with dating me because I do not hit her. It is what she knows and expects – she would actually be far less frightened of me if I were to hit her because right now she never knows when I am just going to start beating her senseless for no reason. It hasn’t happened yet but that’s what boyfriends do, and right now she doesn’t know what is going to set me off (and part of her cannot believe that I am not going to hit her – because of course they have all said they would not).

2) society has conditioned her to at least pretend (even lying to herself) that what she wants is a monogamous and serious relationship. Many people have this particular problem. People need to accept that there are perfectly valid and healthy relationship models that do not rely on monogamy and commitment. If she enjoys being with him, then she should enjoy being with him. So what if he has other partners? Apparently so does she – and she justifies sleeping with them to ‘get back at him’. No justification is necessary – if you want to sleep with more than one person, then do it without regret or apology.

Bad boys suck; they're all grungy. Eeeewwwww.
Nice guys are Orbit clean! No matter what!
And guys aren't stoopid, they're shallow, get it straight, G-man.
LOL! Whatever, dood! :)

No bullshit at all. I've been looking for ages.... all there seems to be out there are bad boys, married men and bores. Not much choice. :(
Then may I suggest that you're probably ... like looking in the wrong places? Hmmm???

Just for my own enlightenment, please define "bore" for me. :)

Then may I suggest that you're probably ... like looking in the wrong places? Hmmm???

Just for my own enlightenment, please define "bore" for me. :)

Men are like phone booths, either broken, or occupied.