NationStates Jolt Archive

Mexico's economy wins! (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,202435,00.html)

But Obrador is going to court. Ugh. I guess he learned that from the United States.

But Obrador is going to court. Ugh. I guess he learned that from the United States.

Is there something wrong with making absolutely sure a democratic election is fair?

Is there something wrong with making absolutely sure a democratic election is fair?
Not necessarily...it just suggests distrust.

I don't know nearly as much about Mexican politics as I should and I don't know too much about the candidates. But still, congratulations to him.

I thought you meant RAMÓN CALDERÓN, the new Real Madrid's president... hum...

Congradulations to Calderon. I'm not too worried about the other guy, unless he organizes riots in order to further his agenda.

Not necessarily...it just suggests distrust.

What's to trust? The PRI has a habit of fixing elections.

What's to trust? The PRI has a habit of fixing elections.

But PRI lost. By a large margin.

Congradulations to Calderon. I'm not too worried about the other guy, unless he organizes riots in order to further his agenda.
Which he still might. The Federal Electoral Tribunal still has to decide if the vote by vote count is going to proceed, and even if it gets the go ahead, Obrador may decide he doesn't like the results.

That's an old strategy of his, since his days as local politician in Tabasco.

But PRI lost. By a large margin.
Very large, actually relegated to a far away third place in both Houses of Congress.

But PRI lost. By a large margin.

They were pushed from power by Presidente Fox in 2000. Now we get to see what the other parties are capable of doing. Goes to show that no one party stays in power forever.

Yeah but Obrador is an idiot, I tell you that as a Mexican that I am. You simply can't say that the election was wrong when you have scientists of international reknown and Mexican scientists supervising the elections. He just is getting over his head and he's calling for violence whereas Calderon is calling for peace. I voted for Calderon and I'm proud of it, Obrador is a jerk with a big mouth and Madrazo(PRI) is just a great big rat, thief, liar and betrayer.

They were pushed from power by Presidente Fox in 2000. Now we get to see what the other parties are capable of doing. Goes to show that no one party stays in power forever.
The PRI and the Canadian Liberal Party (and those philosophically akin to the CLP) both know the feeling.

Yeah but Obrador is an idiot, I tell you that as a Mexican that I am. You simply can't say that the election was wrong when you have scientists of international reknown and Mexican scientists supervising the elections. He just is getting over his head and he's calling for violence whereas Calderon is calling for peace. I voted for Calderon and I'm proud of it, Obrador is a jerk with a big mouth and Madrazo(PRI) is just a great big rat, thief, liar and betrayer.

The election was stolen from ALMO. Mexicans need healthcare, childcare, reproductive freedom/sex, education, pensions, housing, food, recreation, and the right to a job, and ALMO was the only one brave enough to realize that you have to tax the rich extremely highly in order to get everything for free for everyone.

Felipe Calderon is only for the rich and that's why we know it was stolen. Who wouldn't vote for the candidate that offers you the most free things? That's how I will vote when I am finally allowed to by the patriarchical age restrictions imposed by the USA.

The PRI and the Canadian Liberal Party (and those philosophically akin to the CLP) both know the feeling.

As well as the Democratic Party. They know the feeling too.

The election was stolen from ALMO. Mexicans need healthcare, childcare, reproductive freedom/sex, education, pensions, housing, food, recreation, and the right to a job, and ALMO was the only one brave enough to realize that you have to tax the rich extremely highly in order to get everything for free for everyone.

Felipe Calderon is only for the rich and that's why we know it was stolen. Who wouldn't vote for the candidate that offers you the most free things? That's how I will vote when I am finally allowed to by the patriarchical age restrictions imposed by the USA.

Grow up and get a life CaT. It is apparent you know absolutely nothing about politics and are blinded by ideology.

Yeah but Obrador is an idiot, I tell you that as a Mexican that I am. You simply can't say that the election was wrong when you have scientists of international reknown and Mexican scientists supervising the elections. He just is getting over his head and he's calling for violence whereas Calderon is calling for peace. I voted for Calderon and I'm proud of it, Obrador is a jerk with a big mouth and Madrazo(PRI) is just a great big rat, thief, liar and betrayer.

I am glad that you have your nation's interests at heart.

Grow up and get a life CaT. It is apparent you know absolutely nothing about politics and are blinded by ideology.

Corneliu, I agree completely. I don't like politics for its own sake like you do. You probably love the West Wing, but I can't stand it.

It's time for true democratic control over the economy as mandated in the US Constitution.

To ALMO supporters: to the streets, bring down the fraudulent fascist Calderon government

As well as the Democratic Party. They know the feeling too.
Quite well indeed. Although their reign didn't last for seventy or eighty years, only some thirty or so years.

Corneliu, I agree completely. I don't like politics for its own sake like you do. You probably love the West Wing, but I can't stand it.

I don't watch the west wing.

It's time for true democratic control over the economy as mandated in the US Constitution.

HAHA! I would love to see where you get that idea since it is regulated by Congress.

To ALMO supporters: to the streets, bring down the fraudulent fascist Calderon government

:rolleyes: Yep. Absolutely nothing. You don't even know what you are saying. You don't even know Calderon except that he is a conservative who is going to FIX MEXICO!

Quite well indeed. Although their reign didn't last for seventy or eighty years, only some thirty or so years.

Little more than forty years.

It's time for true democratic control over the economy as mandated in the US Constitution.
What the hell are you talking about?

What part of the Constitution?

To ALMO supporters: to the streets, bring down the fraudulent fascist Calderon government
If they try a revolution, ******************************************

The election was stolen from ALMO. Mexicans need healthcare, childcare, reproductive freedom/sex, education, pensions, housing, food, recreation, and the right to a job, and ALMO was the only one brave enough to realize that you have to tax the rich extremely highly in order to get everything for free for everyone.

Felipe Calderon is only for the rich and that's why we know it was stolen. Who wouldn't vote for the candidate that offers you the most free things? That's how I will vote when I am finally allowed to by the patriarchical age restrictions imposed by the USA.

You don't know shit, and if that's how you're voting I feel sorry for your poor country. I'm not rich and I didn't vote for his sorry ass. He's an idiot you don't understand because you're from the US you know jack shit about my country so shut up. People don't like hand outs, people don't take hand outs maybe you do, Felipe encouraged private business and AMLO only made enemies of them, you can't take money from the rich just because they're rich. Lower the damn salary of the highly over payed politicians including himself. And tax them less so that jobs maybe created. You tax them more and they'll cut back on the jobs, there will be more unemployment but you don't consider that. There's no money to do all the shit he says. So to hell with him!

:rolleyes: Yep. Absolutely nothing. You don't even know what you are saying. You don't even know Calderon except that he is a conservative who is going to FIX MEXICO!

I'm scared of Mexico, I used to think Latin@s voted for progress, but not in Mexico, at least this time.

Are there any Mexicans on the Forum?

You don't know shit, and if that's how you're voting I feel sorry for your poor country. I'm not rich and I didn't vote for his sorry ass. He's an idiot you don't understand because you're from the US you know jack shit about my country so shut up. People don't like hand outs, people don't take hand outs maybe you do, Felipe encouraged private business and AMLO only made enemies of them, you can't take money from the rich just because they're rich. Lower the damn salary of the highly over payed politicians including himself. And tax them less so that jobs maybe created. You tax them more and they'll cut back on the jobs, there will be more unemployment but you don't consider that. There's no money to do all the shit he says. So to hell with him!

1) Tone it down. You're getting angry. I love the passion you express though. Don't lose that.

and

2) Well said yet again.

http://www.archives.gov/national-archives-experience/charters/constitution_transcript.html

Buddy, you find it in this document and I'll give you a motherfuckin' nickel.

I'm scared of Mexico, I used to think Latin@s voted for progress, but not in Mexico, at least this time.

Are there any Mexicans on the Forum?

True Alexandria apparently is a Mexican who voted in the elections.

I'm not scared of Mexico. They finally have a leader who is going to do something for the people so they'll stop crossing our border illegally.

You don't know shit, and if that's how you're voting I feel sorry for your poor country. I'm not rich and I didn't vote for his sorry ass. He's an idiot you don't understand because you're from the US you know jack shit about my country so shut up. People don't like hand outs, people don't take hand outs maybe you do, Felipe encouraged private business and AMLO only made enemies of them, you can't take money from the rich just because they're rich. Lower the damn salary of the highly over payed politicians including himself. And tax them less so that jobs maybe created. You tax them more and they'll cut back on the jobs, there will be more unemployment but you don't consider that. There's no money to do all the shit he says. So to hell with him!

I don't think you are Mexican. If you are Mexican, then, as Hugo Chavez, democratically elected President of Venezuela and much beloved by the Venezuelan people, has said: you must be part of the light-skinned oligarchy that exploits the oppressed Indian/mestizo majority. :(

I don't think you are Mexican. If you are Mexican, then, as Hugo Chavez, democratically elected President of Venezuela and much beloved by the Venezuelan people, has said: you must be part of the light-skinned oligarchy that exploits the oppressed Indian/mestizo majority. :(

Please tell me this is a joke. This has got to be a joke? You actually brought up Hugo Chavez? OMG. Now I know you know jack about politics.

True Alexandria apparently is a Mexican who voted in the elections.

I'm not scared of Mexico. They finally have a leader who is going to do something for the people so they'll stop crossing our border illegally.

Umm, the land of California, Nevada, Arizona, Colorado, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Kansas, Texas all BELONG TO MEXICO. The Latin@ people were there first and own the land. So it is Americans that are illegal occupiers. :(

Check with your facts before you declare a poor Mexican to be illegal, because in reality no human being is illegal.

I don't think you are Mexican. If you are Mexican, then, as Hugo Chavez, democratically elected President of Venezuela and much beloved by the Venezuelan people, has said: you must be part of the light-skinned oligarchy that exploits the oppressed Indian/mestizo majority. :(

If I knew where you live I'd show you my passport pinche gringo puto hijo de la verga. Hugo Chavez is a damn bastard, a comunist idiot. And if you don't need to be lightskined to write proper english hijo de puta. And to hell with him and you too puto

Please tell me this is a joke. This has got to be a joke? You actually brought up Hugo Chavez? OMG. Now I know you know jack about politics.

President Chavez has a 82% approval rating according to official polls by the Venezuelan government.

Preisdent Chavez has promised to modernize Venezuela by raising up the people trapped in poor barrios.

I don't think you are Mexican. If you are Mexican, then, as Hugo Chavez, democratically elected President of Venezuela and much beloved by the Venezuelan people, has said: you must be part of the light-skinned oligarchy that exploits the oppressed Indian/mestizo majority. :(
Wow, race baiting and doubting her identity. You're really going for awesome points.

Why would TA lie about being from Mexico? What benefit does it do her? Espescially beyond this thread, where if TA was lying, the lie would be uncovered.

I wouldn't trust Hugo Chavez's word any more than I would that of the junkie on the corner.

I'm from monterrey Nuevo Leon, and my name is Karina Elizabeth Garza Gonzales, pleased to meet you all

If I knew where you live I'd show you my passport pinche gringo puto hijo de la verga. Hugo Chavez is a damn bastard, a comunist idiot. And if you don't need to be lightskined to write proper english hijo de puta. And to hell with him and you too puto

True Alexandria, I don't mean it as an insult at all. I support you and your revolution against the USA. If you seriously voted for Calderon though, you voted against your own self-interest, much like they do in Kansas, because Kansas should vote for the Democrats much like you should have voted for AMLO.

Umm, the land of California, Nevada, Arizona, Colorado, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Kansas, Texas all BELONG TO MEXICO. The Latin@ people were there first and own the land. So it is Americans that are illegal occupiers. :(

Since when did Kansas and Colorado belong to Texas? California, Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas sure. But Kansas and Colorado?

Check with your facts before you declare a poor Mexican to be illegal, because in reality no human being is illegal.

I guess you do not believe in national borders do you?

President Chavez has a 82% approval rating according to official polls by the Venezuelan government.

Preisdent Chavez has promised to modernize Venezuela by raising up the people trapped in poor barrios.
Through demagoguery, populism, isolationism and lies. He prattles on about the threat of an American invasion, he drones on about how he's using the oil money to improve the lives of ordinary Venezuelans and plenty of other bullshit. All the while his cabinet ministers go out on gigantic yachts purchased with taxpayer money and visit as many Carribbean resorts as possible. That really sounds unique.

Furthermore, you can promise all you want, but that's not going to make it happen.

I'm from monterrey Nuevo Leon, and my name is Karina Elizabeth Garza Gonzales, pleased to meet you all
A pleasure.

It's time for true democratic control over the economy as mandated in the US Constitution.

Mandated in the US Constitution in the special invisible section that only really smart people like you and I can see with our special X-ray glasses. Yes, democratic control of the economy- consumer preferences be damned, bureaucrats know more about what we want than we do!

To ALMO supporters: to the streets, bring down the fraudulent fascist Calderon government

Bring down Felipe Hitler-on's government, him and his damn election-winning! Everyone knows that only leftists should win those!

President Chavez has a 82% approval rating according to official polls by the Venezuelan government.

Done by the government itself? Now I will call the polls bias since they were done by the government itself.

[quote]Preisdent Chavez has promised to modernize Venezuela by raising up the people trapped in poor barrios.

And if ya actually believe that then I have a bridge for sale in San Francisco. Do yourself a favor and learn politics.

I'm from monterrey Nuevo Leon, and my name is Karina Elizabeth Garza Gonzales, pleased to meet you all

You seem nice, I'm sorry for being mean to you for supporting Calderon. But you realize that Calderon will be controlled by Bush. Don't be suprised if Calderon calls a draft and sends young Mexicans into the Iraq War.

I'm from monterrey Nuevo Leon, and my name is Karina Elizabeth Garza Gonzales, pleased to meet you all

*bows*

Welcome to NS General milady.

True Alexandria, I don't mean it as an insult at all. I support you and your revolution against the USA. If you seriously voted for Calderon though, you voted against your own self-interest, much like they do in Kansas, because Kansas should vote for the Democrats much like you should have voted for AMLO.

No because I know it's not in my best interest. He seeks to bring down the enterprise and industries my father works in with all the effort, and guts and heart he has put in. He is a liar, a comunist and worst of all a betrayer. Why did it take him more than twenty years to raise his voice, why now? and not then? I stood and marched with people in the campaign against violence but I did that in the moment...why didn't he stand up then? Because he's a liar a manipulative son of a bitch that offer the same things Echeverria did and Lopez Portillo and both put the country in a crisis. So no, I won't vote for him and I'll fight him if I must

Mandated in the US Constitution in the special invisible section that only really smart people like you and I can see with our special X-ray glasses. Yes, democratic control of the economy- consumer preferences be damned, bureaucrats know more about what we want than we do!



Bring down Felipe Hitler-on's government, him and his damn election-winning! Everyone knows that only leftists should win those!

Hitler was appointed Chancellor by President Hindenberg after democratic elections in Germany that resulted in a Nationalist/National Socialist coalition government. So just because you are democratically elected doesn't mean you aren't fascist.

I'm scared for North America with Calderon, Bush, and Stephen Harper, Bush's Canadian poodle.

You seem nice, I'm sorry for being mean to you for supporting Calderon. But you realize that Calderon will be controlled by Bush. Don't be suprised if Calderon calls a draft and sends young Mexicans into the Iraq War.

*dies of laughter*

No because I know it's not in my best interest. He seeks to bring down the enterprise and industries my father works in with all the effort, and guts and heart he has put in. He is a liar, a comunist and worst of all a betrayer. Why did it take him more than twenty years to raise his voice, why now? and not then? I stood and marched with people in the campaign against violence but I did that in the moment...why didn't he stand up then? Because he's a liar a manipulative son of a bitch that offer the same things Echeverria did and Lopez Portillo and both put the country in a crisis. So no, I won't vote for him and I'll fight him if I must

If Madrazo had quit the race, then Calderon wouldn't have had a prayer to win. Hopefully the PRI and PRD will coalition to block everything that PAN wants to do to destroy the rights that were won in the 1917 constitution.

Hitler was appointed Chancellor by President Hindenberg after democratic elections in Germany that resulted in a Nationalist/National Socialist coalition government. So just because you are democratically elected doesn't mean you aren't fascist.

I'm scared for North America with Calderon, Bush, and Stephen Harper, Bush's Canadian poodle.
I believe I just choked on my own vocal chords.

If Madrazo had quit the race, then Calderon wouldn't have had a prayer to win. Hopefully the PRI and PRD will coalition to block everything that PAN wants to do to destroy the rights that were won in the 1917 constitution.
Socialists + Corrupt Authoritarian Nationalists.

C'mon. Put the words together buddy, put 'em together!

No because I know it's not in my best interest. He seeks to bring down the enterprise and industries my father works in with all the effort, and guts and heart he has put in. He is a liar, a comunist and worst of all a betrayer. Why did it take him more than twenty years to raise his voice, why now? and not then? I stood and marched with people in the campaign against violence but I did that in the moment...why didn't he stand up then? Because he's a liar a manipulative son of a bitch that offer the same things Echeverria did and Lopez Portillo and both put the country in a crisis. So no, I won't vote for him and I'll fight him if I must

*applauds*

Hitler was appointed Chancellor by President Hindenberg after democratic elections in Germany that resulted in a Nationalist/National Socialist coalition government. So just because you are democratically elected doesn't mean you aren't fascist.

I'm being sarcastic.

Hitler was appointed Chancellor by President Hindenberg after democratic elections in Germany that resulted in a Nationalist/National Socialist coalition government. So just because you are democratically elected doesn't mean you aren't fascist.

I'm scared for North America with Calderon, Bush, and Stephen Harper, Bush's Canadian poodle.

Do you believe everything that the left wing propaganda puts out?

If Madrazo had quit the race, then Calderon wouldn't have had a prayer to win. Hopefully the PRI and PRD will coalition to block everything that PAN wants to do to destroy the rights that were won in the 1917 constitution.

Madrazo was out from the beginning, the PRI are the biggest thieves in history. And all those guys at PRD were ex PRIists, so don't talk to me like you know cause you don't and PRI will never side with PRD

Socialists + Corrupt Authoritarian Nationalists.

C'mon. Put the words together buddy, put 'em together!

PRI is corrupt, but they are socialists also, just like the PRD. And Felipe Calderon is a NEOLIBERAL who wants tax cuts for the rich, which even on this forum are rejected by a 2/3's majority.

Socialists + Corrupt Authoritarian Nationalists.

C'mon. Put the words together buddy, put 'em together!

He can't. It is quite obvious that he can't.

No because I know it's not in my best interest. He seeks to bring down the enterprise and industries my father works in with all the effort, and guts and heart he has put in. He is a liar, a comunist and worst of all a betrayer. Why did it take him more than twenty years to raise his voice, why now? and not then? I stood and marched with people in the campaign against violence but I did that in the moment...why didn't he stand up then? Because he's a liar a manipulative son of a bitch that offer the same things Echeverria did and Lopez Portillo and both put the country in a crisis. So no, I won't vote for him and I'll fight him if I must
A statement to be proud of.

I'm going to be quiet now before I'm accused of being a troll just because I'm a Democrat and proud of it. Instead of like the Democrats who pretend to be conservative to get elected.

Go Jon Tester and Jim Webb!

PRI is corrupt, but they are socialists also, just like the PRD. And Felipe Calderon is a NEOLIBERAL who wants tax cuts for the rich, which even on this forum are rejected by a 2/3's majority.

Don't you mean NEOCON? You can't even get the terms right. Holy mother of God come on. At least make an attempt to know what you are talking about.

I'm going to be quiet now before I'm accused of being a troll just because I'm a Democrat and proud of it. Instead of like the Democrats who pretend to be conservative to get elected.

Go Jon Tester and Jim Webb!

I'm glad you are a democrat however, you need to learn a few things about politics including the Constitution. Not to mention, you can't believe everything that the dems put out.

Don't you mean NEOCON? You can't even get the terms right. Holy mother of God come on. At least make an attempt to know what you are talking about.

Neocon means a Jewish Republican.

Neoliberalism is the actual philosophy of the Tory/Republican/PAN parties.

You get your terms right.

PRI is corrupt, but they are socialists also, just like the PRD. And Felipe Calderon is a NEOLIBERAL who wants tax cuts for the rich, which even on this forum are rejected by a 2/3's majority.
I'm a neoliberal. Ardent supporter of globalisation and private development around the world. Friend of any people that will stand up for their rights as free individuals, to not be ruled by the state and the gun, but to control their own lives.

Furthermore, this forum is wrong on an awful lot of things.

PRI is corrupt, but they are socialists also, just like the PRD. And Felipe Calderon is a NEOLIBERAL who wants tax cuts for the rich, which even on this forum are rejected by a 2/3's majority.


Socialists? PRI? Where does this guy get his info?

You are so wrong, Salinas de Gortari was from PRI and he was the bringer of neoliberalism. And PRI are capitalists all the way.m PRD are socialists and Pan are conservatives. to claim that Calderon is neoliberalist is just plain political ingnorance

Don't you mean NEOCON? You can't even get the terms right. Holy mother of God come on. At least make an attempt to know what you are talking about.

Neoliberal refers to laissez-faire economics. If you're going to try and correct someone, know yourself before you say anything.

Neocon means a Jewish Republican.

Neoliberalism is the actual philosophy of the Tory/Republican/PAN parties.

You get your terms right.

Where the hell did you get this garbage from?

I'm a neoliberal. Ardent supporter of globalisation and private development around the world. Friend of any people that will stand up for their rights as free individuals, to not be ruled by the state and the gun, but to control their own lives.

Furthermore, this forum is wrong on an awful lot of things.

Are you also a Christian that believes in a biblical worldview?

Neoliberal refers to laissez-faire economics. If you're going to try and correct someone, know yourself before you say anything.

I do know what I'm talking about. It is him that doesn't.

Are you also a Christian that believes in a biblical worldview?
Hell no. I'm a rationalist, with an occasional agnostic twinge.

Where the hell did you get this garbage from?

In the USA conservatives are technically liberals, and liberals (i.e. progressive Democrats) are technically socialists.

Hell no. I'm a rationalist, with an occasional agnostic twinge.

So why do you vote republican and empower Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson.

I'm a neoliberal. Ardent supporter of globalisation and private development around the world. Friend of any people that will stand up for their rights as free individuals, to not be ruled by the state and the gun, but to control their own lives.

Furthermore, this forum is wrong on an awful lot of things.

Ain't that the truth.

Socialists? PRI? Where does this guy get his info?

You are so wrong, Salinas de Gortari was from PRI and he was the bringer of neoliberalism. And PRI are capitalists all the way.m PRD are socialists and Pan are conservatives. to claim that Calderon is neoliberalist is just plain political ingnorance

You'll find that alot here TA.

So why do you vote republican and empower Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson.
When did I ever say I voted Republican?

In the USA conservatives are technically liberals, and liberals (i.e. progressive Democrats) are technically socialists.

The US is the US and Mexico is Mexico. Suddenly becasue over there that is the case then automatically it's the same way here? Give me a break. You don't even know.

PRI=capitalists and neoliberals
PAN=conservatives
PRD=socialists and comunists

This is just a topic for Calderon/National Action Party apologists. If this were reflective of the 75% progressive majority on NationStates, I would have more defenders.

Harper, Bush and Calderon are the real Axis of Evil.

In the USA conservatives are technically liberals, and liberals (i.e. progressive Democrats) are technically socialists.

You never answered my question. Where did you get the garbage about:

Neocon means a Jewish Republican.

Neoliberalism is the actual philosophy of the Tory/Republican/PAN parties.

I'll await your answer.

When did I ever say I voted Republican?

You love the free market a little too much to be a Democrat.

So why do you vote republican and empower Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson.

They don't speak for everyone C&T. Its high time you remember that.

This is just a topic for Calderon/National Action Party apologists. If this were reflective of the 75% progressive majority on NationStates, I would have more defenders.

Harper, Bush and Calderon are the real Axis of Evil.

There's your problem. Never use Nationstates as a method for your view of the world.

You love the free market a little too much to be a Democrat.

Have you ever considered that you can't divide the people of the US into 2 neat little portions?

You love the free market a little too much to be a Democrat.
There's other political affiliations besides just D&R. I could easily be an Independent or a Libertarian.

C&T if you believe comunism is the way, then AMLO is your man but comunism doesn't help it simply doesn't work and if you think it does then you're really lost because that's what AMLO wants for my country

There's other political affiliations besides just D&R. I could easily be an Independent or a Libertarian.

Quiet! You're crumbling his worldview...

You never answered my question. Where did you get the garbage about:



I'll await your answer.

Neoliberal is an obvious term.

Neocon technically means a progressive/radical that at the same time is a war hawk, and since the Democratic Party is for peace, they vote Republican.

But when most people say it today, I don't necessary agree with this, its people who are trying to send a message to the few Jewish Republicans: "What are you doing and get back and vote for the Democratic party!" I completely understand why Jews would be nervous if some of their own were voting for Republicans, when Republicans share so much ideology with fascism and the Nazi party.

Neoliberal is an obvious term.

Neocon technically means a progressive/radical that at the same time is a war hawk, and since the Democratic Party is for peace, they vote Republican.

I guess you do not know that there is also a war faction inside the democratic party?

But when most people say it today, I don't necessary agree with this, its people who are trying to send a message to the few Jewish Republicans: "What are you doing and get back and vote for the Democratic party!"

I'm still waiting on where you are getting this from. I guess you won't tell me.

I completely understand why Jews would be nervous if some of their own were voting for Republicans, when Republicans share so much ideology with fascism and the Nazi party.

*dies of laughter*

Neoliberal is an obvious term.

Neocon technically means a progressive/radical that at the same time is a war hawk, and since the Democratic Party is for peace, they vote Republican.

But when most people say it today, I don't necessary agree with this, its people who are trying to send a message to the few Jewish Republicans: "What are you doing and get back and vote for the Democratic party!" I completely understand why Jews would be nervous if some of their own were voting for Republicans, when Republicans share so much ideology with fascism and the Nazi party.
Shall we ignore these differences in understanding of terms, please?

Let us get back on topic.

C&T if you believe comunism is the way, then AMLO is your man but comunism doesn't help it simply doesn't work and if you think it does then you're really lost because that's what AMLO wants for my country

I'm not sure communism was ever really tried. Everyone knows that the Soviet Union was acutally capitalist (with one corporation), which is exactly where the USA is headed if the government doesn't stop Wal*Mart and its attempt to get into every industry.

Neoliberal is an obvious term.

Neocon technically means a progressive/radical that at the same time is a war hawk, and since the Democratic Party is for peace, they vote Republican.

But when most people say it today, I don't necessary agree with this, its people who are trying to send a message to the few Jewish Republicans: "What are you doing and get back and vote for the Democratic party!" I completely understand why Jews would be nervous if some of their own were voting for Republicans, when Republicans share so much ideology with fascism and the Nazi party.

Calderon disagreed with Bush from the begining, and he stood by his desicion. That's why Fox and Calderon did not end up at good terms, they speak but they are not friends

I'm not sure communism was ever really tried. Everyone knows that the Soviet Union was acutally capitalist (with one corporation), which is exactly where the USA is headed if the government doesn't stop Wal*Mart and its attempt to get into every industry.

Where did you get your education from? Clown School?

Calderon disagreed with Bush from the begining, and he stood by his desicion. That's why Fox and Calderon did not end up at good terms, they speak but they are not friends

Do you wish the PAN had a majority in the CoD and the Senate?

I'm not sure communism was ever really tried. Everyone knows that the Soviet Union was acutally capitalist (with one corporation), which is exactly where the USA is headed if the government doesn't stop Wal*Mart and its attempt to get into every industry.
Have you ever heard of the term "doublespeak"? Capitalism implies free competition and voluntarism. It also implies a lack of government controls in the economy. None of those descriptors describe life in the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union was Authoritarian Socialist.

Beyond that, Wal Mart is quite a ways off from becoming anywere close to powerful enough to challenge the government. It comes close to accounting for 1% of the US economy, which is a gigantic chunk, but it's nowhere near enough for what you claim.

C&T if you believe comunism is the way, then AMLO is your man but comunism doesn't help it simply doesn't work and if you think it does then you're really lost because that's what AMLO wants for my country

If you could vote in the USA would you be Democrat or Republican?

DON'T FORGET: The Republicans hate Latin@s/Mexican@s.

C&T if you believe comunism is the way, then AMLO is your man but comunism doesn't help it simply doesn't work and if you think it does then you're really lost because that's what AMLO wants for my country

True Alexandria, if you could vote in the USA would you be Democrat or Republican?

DON'T FORGET: The Republicans hate Latin@s/Mexican@s.

If you could vote in the USA would you be Democrat or Republican?

DON'T FORGET: The Republicans hate Latin@s/Mexican@s.

Oh bullshit. That's a democrat lie and everyone knows it.

Where did you get your education from? Clown School?

That's not a very nice thing to say. I think you should apologize to all the world's clown schools for saying that.

Oh bullshit. That's a democrat lie and everyone knows it.
Ah hell, another Consnervative who thinks there's a propoganda Machine Democrats have to smear the Republicans.

If you could vote in the USA would you be Democrat or Republican?

DON'T FORGET: The Republicans hate Latin@s/Mexican@s.
What's with the @ signs?

That's not a very nice thing to say. I think you should apologize to all the world's clown schools for saying that.
Worst insult ever.

Worst insult ever.

You're the worst insult ever.

The United States media and government clearly wanted Calderon to win this, and the coverage here was blatantly pro-Calderon, I saw that reflected in parts of this thread though I haven't read the whole thing (since its 800 million posts long).

First off, there is no reason to believe that Obrador would wreck the Mexican economy, there is reason to believe he might do a lot of good for Mexico economically. The wealthy in Mexico pay almost nothing in taxes, Obrador could fund antipoverty programs through increasing these taxes with no real economic harm (due to the multiplier effect the market effect of the increased government spending would more than make up for the tax increase). Money multiplies at a greater rate amongst poorer people with a lower savings rate and higher spending rate, so redistributing that wealth as Obrador proposes would stand a good chance of improving economy due to increased consumer spending.

The second point I would like to hit on here is that Obrador has good reason to contest this election right now. The simple fact is that this election was insanely close, and all precautions should be taken to ensure that the correct result is found. When 41 million votes are cast, 200,000 is a razor thin margin, the packets must be opened and hand counted in order to ensure that the official result is accurate. Mexican law prohibits those packets from being opened unless there is compelling evidence of fraud, there is. Far more votes were counted in some areas for Senate or Governor (lesser offices than that of President) than were counted for President. This indicates that it is likely that not all the ballots were counted, I can't guarantee that, but there is a good chance that more people voted for President than had their ballots counted in the official tally as it stands now.

The truth is that Méxicans were tired of the way Partido Revolucionario Institucional was doing things, but that started from since the 70's, but that was because of the killing in 1968 and the way the peso caved down. after a time Partido Accion Nacional started gaining on them but this is a political party that started from private enterprise that got angry when president Cardenas took away the oil, and they started their political party. Partido Revololucion Democratica is a bunch of "PRISTAS" that could not rise any higher because they did not have enogh school, or where just not qualifide.

People wanted a "Cambio" in 2000 but this "Cambio" didnt really happen in 2000 but since the presidensi of Zedillo. Hes the one that opend the way for democracy in México, a president from the political party that was in power for the past 70 years. What President Fox did: he just divided the country, 1) the poor in the south because their is no work, all the work is in the north because of the "Maquiladoras" that are not Méxican, they are foreing companys looking for cheap labor. 2) The North witch is the once that profit from this "Maquiladoras" that pay 700.00 a week, thats less than 70.00 dollars a week in a place were most of the prices are equal or higher than US prices. So what i think is going to happen is that at the end the mexican government will be stuck for six years and at the end every one will get the big picture and Partido Revolucionario Institucional will once again win, This because the people will be tired of the Left and the Right, the truly Center will come back to power.

You're the worst insult ever.
Scratch that, this is.

Scratch that, this is.

Damn skippy.

Ah hell, another Consnervative who thinks there's a propoganda Machine Democrats have to smear the Republicans.

Of course there is just like there's a machine to smear the Democrats.

The truth is that Méxicans were tired of the way Partido Revolucionario Institucional was doing things, but that started from since the 70's, but that was because of the killing in 1968 and the way the peso caved down. after a time Partido Accion Nacional started gaining on them but this is a political party that started from private enterprise that got angry when president Cardenas took away the oil, and they started their political party. Partido Revololucion Democratica is a bunch of "PRISTAS" that could not rise any higher because they did not have enogh school, or where just not qualifide.

I am a true progressive, but doesn't it seem like this post and the one before it were posted from a member of the Communist Party USA?

Of course there is just like there's a machine to smear the Democrats.
Nah, there's no machine. They do smear, but then certainly don't organize is very heavily. Or at least no heavily enough for people to believe Republicans hate Latinos and Blacks. That belongs solely to how those races voted, which was heavily in favor of Democrat, despite that Republicans ran on a pro-Christianity (or at least one that calims they're moreso than Democrats) platform.

The United States media and government clearly wanted Calderon to win this, and the coverage here was blatantly pro-Calderon, I saw that reflected in parts of this thread though I haven't read the whole thing (since its 800 million posts long).

First off, there is no reason to believe that Obrador would wreck the Mexican economy, there is reason to believe he might do a lot of good for Mexico economically. The wealthy in Mexico pay almost nothing in taxes, Obrador could fund antipoverty programs through increasing these taxes with no real economic harm (due to the multiplier effect the market effect of the increased government spending would more than make up for the tax increase). Money multiplies at a greater rate amongst poorer people with a lower savings rate and higher spending rate, so redistributing that wealth as Obrador proposes would stand a good chance of improving economy due to increased consumer spending.

The second point I would like to hit on here is that Obrador has good reason to contest this election right now. The simple fact is that this election was insanely close, and all precautions should be taken to ensure that the correct result is found. When 41 million votes are cast, 200,000 is a razor thin margin, the packets must be opened and hand counted in order to ensure that the official result is accurate. Mexican law prohibits those packets from being opened unless there is compelling evidence of fraud, there is. Far more votes were counted in some areas for Senate or Governor (lesser offices than that of President) than were counted for President. This indicates that it is likely that not all the ballots were counted, I can't guarantee that, but there is a good chance that more people voted for President than had their ballots counted in the official tally as it stands now.

You don't know what the hell you're talking about.


The truth is that Méxicans were tired of the way Partido Revolucionario Institucional was doing things, but that started from since the 70's, but that was because of the killing in 1968 and the way the peso caved down. after a time Partido Accion Nacional started gaining on them but this is a political party that started from private enterprise that got angry when president Cardenas took away the oil, and they started their political party. Partido Revololucion Democratica is a bunch of "PRISTAS" that could not rise any higher because they did not have enogh school, or where just not qualifide.

People wanted a "Cambio" in 2000 but this "Cambio" didnt really happen in 2000 but since the presidensi of Zedillo. Hes the one that opend the way for democracy in México, a president from the political party that was in power for the past 70 years. What President Fox did: he just divided the country, 1) the poor in the south because their is no work, all the work is in the north because of the "Maquiladoras" that are not Méxican, they are foreing companys looking for cheap labor. 2) The North witch is the once that profit from this "Maquiladoras" that pay 700.00 a week, thats less than 70.00 dollars a week in a place were most of the prices are equal or higher than US prices. So what i think is going to happen is that at the end the mexican government will be stuck for six years and at the end every one will get the big picture and Partido Revolucionario Institucional will once again win, This because the people will be tired of the Left and the Right, the truly Center will come back to power.

And you are a real idiot

The United States media and government clearly wanted Calderon to win this, and the coverage here was blatantly pro-Calderon, I saw that reflected in parts of this thread though I haven't read the whole thing (since its 800 million posts long).

Less than 8 pages and a little over 100 posts. I'm sure you could've read that.

First off, there is no reason to believe that Obrador would wreck the Mexican economy, there is reason to believe he might do a lot of good for Mexico economically. The wealthy in Mexico pay almost nothing in taxes, Obrador could fund antipoverty programs through increasing these taxes with no real economic harm (due to the multiplier effect the market effect of the increased government spending would more than make up for the tax increase). Money multiplies at a greater rate amongst poorer people with a lower savings rate and higher spending rate, so redistributing that wealth as Obrador proposes would stand a good chance of improving economy due to increased consumer spending.

Highly doubtful as redistributing wealth has never worked in the past. Redistributing wealth is a communist idea. I suggest you read True Alexandria for the low down.

The second point I would like to hit on here is that Obrador has good reason to contest this election right now. The simple fact is that this election was insanely close, and all precautions should be taken to ensure that the correct result is found. When 41 million votes are cast, 200,000 is a razor thin margin, the packets must be opened and hand counted in order to ensure that the official result is accurate. Mexican law prohibits those packets from being opened unless there is compelling evidence of fraud, there is. Far more votes were counted in some areas for Senate or Governor (lesser offices than that of President) than were counted for President. This indicates that it is likely that not all the ballots were counted, I can't guarantee that, but there is a good chance that more people voted for President than had their ballots counted in the official tally as it stands now.

And yet, it is apparent that even if they are recounted, Calderon is still going to be president-elect.

I am a true progressive, but doesn't it seem like this post and the one before it were posted from a member of the Communist Party USA?
No.

Maybe a member of a party in the ISO or 4th International.

I am a true progressive, but doesn't it seem like this post and the one before it were posted from a member of the Communist Party USA?

Nope.

The United States media and government clearly wanted Calderon to win this, and the coverage here was blatantly pro-Calderon, I saw that reflected in parts of this thread though I haven't read the whole thing (since its 800 million posts long).

First off, there is no reason to believe that Obrador would wreck the Mexican economy, there is reason to believe he might do a lot of good for Mexico economically. The wealthy in Mexico pay almost nothing in taxes, Obrador could fund antipoverty programs through increasing these taxes with no real economic harm (due to the multiplier effect the market effect of the increased government spending would more than make up for the tax increase). Money multiplies at a greater rate amongst poorer people with a lower savings rate and higher spending rate, so redistributing that wealth as Obrador proposes would stand a good chance of improving economy due to increased consumer spending.

The second point I would like to hit on here is that Obrador has good reason to contest this election right now. The simple fact is that this election was insanely close, and all precautions should be taken to ensure that the correct result is found. When 41 million votes are cast, 200,000 is a razor thin margin, the packets must be opened and hand counted in order to ensure that the official result is accurate. Mexican law prohibits those packets from being opened unless there is compelling evidence of fraud, there is. Far more votes were counted in some areas for Senate or Governor (lesser offices than that of President) than were counted for President. This indicates that it is likely that not all the ballots were counted, I can't guarantee that, but there is a good chance that more people voted for President than had their ballots counted in the official tally as it stands now.

I totaly agree with this statement, people outside México dont get the big picture at whats really going on and they take cheap shots at Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador all the time. They would pass comercials saying that he was going to lead the country in an big hole, but you never heard of the total un expiriens from Felipe Calderon, hes only had one political ofice, and that was for congres, that does not count, he was never mayor or governer, so who really knows how to get the county moving?

I am a true progressive, but doesn't it seem like this post and the one before it were posted from a member of the Communist Party USA?

If you were indeed a true progressive, you would not endorse the Democratic party as you do.

I totaly agree with this statement, people outside México dont get the big picture at whats really going on and they take cheap shots at Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador all the time. They would pass comercials saying that he was going to lead the country in an big hole, but you never heard of the total un expiriens from Felipe Calderon, hes only had one political ofice, and that was for congres, that does not count, he was never mayor or governer, so who really knows how to get the county moving?

I support AMLO, he was for the poor and also for reproductive freedom/comprehensive sex education.

Less than 8 pages and a little over 100 posts. I'm sure you could've read that.



Highly doubtful as redistributing wealth has never worked in the past. Redistributing wealth is a communist idea. I suggest you read True Alexandria for the low down.



And yet, it is apparent that even if they are recounted, Calderon is still going to be president-elect.
Re-distrbuting and such does work and indeed is a Socialist ideal, not a Communist one.

What would you suggest works? Trickle Down economics?

I totaly agree with this statement, people outside México dont get the big picture at whats really going on and they take cheap shots at Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador all the time. They would pass comercials saying that he was going to lead the country in an big hole, but you never heard of the total un expiriens from Felipe Calderon, hes only had one political ofice, and that was for congres, that does not count, he was never mayor or governer, so who really knows how to get the county moving?

Since when do you have to be mayor or governor to be the President of a country? hint: you don't.

Also, some of us actually have been following this election from both sides. Calderon is a much better candidate than Obrador is.

If you were indeed a true progressive, you would not endorse the Democratic party as you do.

I'm a progressive Democrat along the lines of Jon Tester, Jim Webb, and Harold Ford, Jr.

I totaly agree with this statement, people outside México dont get the big picture at whats really going on and they take cheap shots at Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador all the time. They would pass comercials saying that he was going to lead the country in an big hole, but you never heard of the total un expiriens from Felipe Calderon, hes only had one political ofice, and that was for congres, that does not count, he was never mayor or governer, so who really knows how to get the county moving?

And yet you talk about AMLO a guy who finished his political degree in '82 give me a break you are the one who doesn't know what the hell he's talking about

I support AMLO, he was for the poor and also for reproductive freedom/comprehensive sex education.

You're a fool too but I think I left that clear in other posts so have all the guys here...

Re-distrbuting and such does work and indeed is a Socialist ideal, not a Communist one.

What would you suggest works? Trickle Down economics?

Giving money back to the people does tend to lead to an economic boom which means employment will go up and everyone will have more money.

True Alexandria, if you could vote in the USA would you be Democrat or Republican?

DON'T FORGET: The Republicans hate Latin@s/Mexican@s.

Wrong. Even my illegal alien Boss likes Bush.

Re-distrbuting and such does work and indeed is a Socialist ideal, not a Communist one.

What would you suggest works? Trickle Down economics?
It's actually called Capitalism, it's just derided by those who don't understand the concept of voluntary mutually beneficial exchange as "trickle down economics."

Trade is a social act, and all who participate in it benefit from it.

I don't care who wins as long as they cut down on illegal immigration.

Re-distrbuting and such does work and indeed is a Socialist ideal, not a Communist one.

What would you suggest works? Trickle Down economics?

Only redistribution I'd support is TAX CUTS! FOR EVERYONE! YEAAAAAAAH! WOHOO!

I don't care who wins as long as they cut down on illegal immigration.

President Fox of Mexico explained that under the Mexican Constitution, Mexicans have a right to be become Americans, if they want to, and under the Fourteenth Amendment of the US Constitution, they also have every right to become Americans.

We cannot violate the Constitution. You just want America to be a white, Christian nation.

True Alexandria, if you could vote in the USA would you be Democrat or Republican?

DON'T FORGET: The Republicans hate Latin@s/Mexican@s.

To tell you the truth, I wanted Al Gore to win when George Bush ran for office in his first term. And I wanted Kerry in the second but only because Bush is a prick.

But Calderon is nothing like him but you're not mexican so you don't understand Bush has always been a political retard

It's actually called Capitalism, it's just derided by those who don't understand the concept of voluntary mutually beneficial exchange as "trickle down economics."

Trade is a social act, and all who participate in it benefit from it.
Please they don't. The slaves obviously didn't benefit from being traded did they?

Please they don't. The slaves obviously didn't benefit from being traded did they?

Finally, someone who can neutralize free-market propaganda!

Thank you Innsburcklia!

Oh and Fox is undermined by everyone even I called him stupid but he is the only president in years to actually make a payment of the debt we have with other countries so he didn't do badly. But you can't change a nation in six years

I don't care who wins as long as they cut down on illegal immigration.

To stop Illegal imigration México needs real jobs in the south, cause most of the people leave theire towns move to the border states and then atempt the crossing, and yes maibe you dont need to be mayor or governer to be president but i bet it would really help on youre resume to have something partly close to what the job is about.

President Fox of Mexico explained that under the Mexican Constitution, Mexicans have a right to be become Americans, if they want to, and under the Fourteenth Amendment of the US Constitution, they also have every right to become Americans.

We cannot violate the Constitution. You just want America to be a white, Christian nation.

You have a problem here in that they crossed illegally which is a crime in this country. Under US law, commit a crime and you are not a citizen, you should be deported.

Who's turn is it tommorrow to win ?

To tell you the truth, I wanted Al Gore to win when George Bush ran for office in his first term. And I wanted Kerry in the second but only because Bush is a prick.

But Calderon is nothing like him but you're not mexican so you don't understand Bush has always been a political retard

Bush, if he isn't impeached by the next progressive Democratic Congress, is going to be good friends with his puppet Calderon. After all, Calderon owes Bush and Rove for helping him steal the Mexican election.

Bush, if he isn't impeached by the next progressive Democratic Congress, is going to be good friends with his puppet Calderon. After all, Calderon owes Bush and Rove for helping him steal the Mexican election.

I'm tired of calling you names but hey it's fun. you're a fool and Calderon will prove it

I'm tired of calling you names but hey it's fun. you're a fool and Calderon will prove it
True time will tell, I'm nto going to say that without a doubt he will be bad, because I don't know. But I will certainly say I think he won't be help.

And yet, it is apparent that even if they are recounted, Calderon is still going to be president-elect.

How is that obvious? There hasn't been a recount, they just readded the numbers, if they actually recounted the votes it could go either way, but the narrow margin of this election says that even minor changes numerically could completely alter the result, the fact is that there were a lot of overvotes, unless you can explain that the packets need to be opened and the ballots recounted. As to the communist thing, that wasn't a response, merely a slander, if you want to discuss the idea then I suggest you do more than call me a communist or you just make yourself look amazingly unintelligent.

I'm tired of calling you names but hey it's fun. you're a fool and Calderon will prove it

Are you saying that Calderon is a progressive? Will he liberate Mexican women by allowing them their Constitutional right to an abortion and liberate Mexican children by teaching them comprehensive sex education?

No he meant it sounded liek something a person of a Communist ideology woudl say. And since I'm rather found of the ideals of Communism, I would say perhaps, but not really.

How is that obvious? There hasn't been a recount, they just readded the numbers, if they actually recounted the votes it could go either way, but the narrow margin of this election says that even minor changes numerically could completely alter the result, the fact is that there were a lot of overvotes, unless you can explain that the packets need to be opened and the ballots recounted.

The election process was supervised by scientists of international reputation. It is called statistics, when you study at school probability and statistics or whatever the hell the subject is called in the US, you will understand, the votes will demonstrate Calderon is the winner period.

How is that obvious? There hasn't been a recount, they just readded the numbers, if they actually recounted the votes it could go either way, but the narrow margin of this election says that even minor changes numerically could completely alter the result, the fact is that there were a lot of overvotes, unless you can explain that the packets need to be opened and the ballots recounted. As to the communist thing, that wasn't a response, merely a slander, if you want to discuss the idea then I suggest you do more than call me a communist or you just make yourself look amazingly unintelligent.

The dems said the samething that if the votes were counted, they would win. It turned out to be the opposite. Samething here. Let them recount but I'll bet you right now that Calderon will be president in December.

The election process was supervised by scientists of international reputation. It is called statistics, when you study at school probability and statistics or whatever the hell the subject is called in the US, you will understand, the votes will demonstrate Calderon is the winner period.

Could Santiago Creel have beaten AMLO?

I'm a big fan of runoff elections for the top two presidential candidates, as they have in France. I don't think either Calderon or Lopez Obrador has a mandate with their roughly 36 per cent each.

Just as an aside, I'd like to see runoff elections here in Canada a week later in all the individual ridings decided by plurality. A compromise like that would effectively put the question of "first past the post" vs "proportional representation" to rest and remove the reason for strategic voting. People could actually vote for whom they want in government in the first round, safe in the knowledge that they have a second chance, rather than be forced to hold their noses and vote for the lesser of two evils in order to keep someone out of government, which is not really democracy.

President Fox of Mexico explained that under the Mexican Constitution, Mexicans have a right to be become Americans, if they want to, and under the Fourteenth Amendment of the US Constitution, they also have every right to become Americans.

We cannot violate the Constitution. You just want America to be a white, Christian nation.

The mexican constitution means squat over here. They don't have ANY RIGHT to become americans except by legal means, and that's something that is BEYOND FOX'S head.

Could Santiago Creel have beaten AMLO?
no he couldn´t cause he was weak when they tried to put a new airport in mexico (toluca i think) the people didnt want to be moved from their homes and put up a fight, at the end Creel left with his tail between his legs.
Needs more "Huevos".

Are you saying that Calderon is a progressive? Will he liberate Mexican women by allowing them their Constitutional right to an abortion and liberate Mexican children by teaching them comprehensive sex education?

He will not permit Abortion. It's called respect for life, I'm awoman and I don't want abortion, the fact that you are killing a human being who has no fault or guilt of the gruesome act that resulted in it's conception is just cruel and a violation to human rights. We are spiritual people, we are catholics and christians in the country. To you seeing divorced couples is natural, to us it's not, it's rare to find divorced couples...there are but it's not something that happens often. But it has to do with our traditions and our believe on our rights to live and those children have a right to be born and live. Claderon belives this and believes in Mexico as a nation of progress. But you can't understand that because you don't know him, you don't live where he lives. Yet Obrador who pays his driver 60,000 pesos (aprox. 6,000 dollars) and has houses in several states and hasn't given a single declaration of taxes, yet you believe him. You don't know us and you don't know our government so butt off

I voted for Calderon and I'm proud of it...meh.. good for you
Yeah but Obrador is an idiot, I tell you that as a Mexican that I am. You simply can't say that the election was wrong when you have scientists of international reknown and Mexican scientists supervising the elections.hmm.. maybe there is not enough scientists in Mexico ??

Just a thought ;)

Count them and see, if Calderon did indeed win then Calderon did indeed win, the Mexican people deserve a fair and accurate count, and the packets must be opened to ensure that, the ballots have only been counted once, there is an odd discrepency here, count them and see.

By the way, Al Gore did not get a recount, but if he did get one here's what would have happened:

If Gore got a statewide recount of Florida he would have won no matter how you counted. If Gore got a recount of only the precincts he was asking for Bush would have still won no matter how you counted. There is no way to actually know who will win until you acually count all the votes, it appears that some votes for President might have been omitted, lets get a recount of them all to see. All I am saying is that the packets must be opened and the votes recounted, if that shows Calderon won then Lopez Obrador should concede the election.

To return to the economic question, wealthy people have a high saving multiplier and a low spending multiplier, poor people have a low saving multiplier and a high spending multiplier, so you get more bang for your buck by taxing the wealthy a reasonable amount (not present in Mexico right now) and redistributing that wealth through social programs to the poor, because they spend the money and it gets reinvested in other people and businesses. Wealthy people get a tax cut and the money goes into bank vaults and doesn't multiply anywhere.

Count them and see, if Calderon did indeed win then Calderon did indeed win, the Mexican people deserve a fair and accurate count, and the packets must be opened to ensure that, the ballots have only been counted once, there is an odd discrepency here, count them and see.

By the way, Al Gore did not get a recount, but if he did get one here's what would have happened:

Excuse but he didn't get a recount? Then what the hell was all the fuss that lasted a MONTH in Florida? They sure as hell recounted. Not to mention the press also recounted it and discovered that Bush did indeed win Florida.

This has been fun and all but i have to run now, i have to se "La Ley de Herodes", cool movie that makes fun but at the same time lets people know how things got done in mexicos early days of politics, something like in the 40's, I recomend it to any one that knows spanish, so you get the funny stuff. Also see "El pais que no pasa nada".
Im mexican and understand what democracy is all about. I understand that americans think that they can change the world in one day, but the truth is that mexico has been a Socialist country with a Democratical veil to the world and with all the Labor Unions and the large government (workers where they bring in family and friends even if they dont know nothing to a "Trabajo de Confiansa") it will be really hard to to grow.

If I knew where you live I'd show you my passport pinche gringo puto hijo de la verga. Hugo Chavez is a damn bastard, a comunist idiot. And if you don't need to be lightskined to write proper english hijo de puta. And to hell with him and you too putoI'm from monterrey Nuevo Leon, and my name is Karina Elizabeth Garza Gonzales, pleased to meet you allI am not pleased to meet you Karina-Elizabeth.. Here @ NSG we do not disrespect other posters mothers.. just because we do not agree with their opinions.

Excuse but he didn't get a recount? Then what the hell was all the fuss that lasted a MONTH in Florida? They sure as hell recounted. Not to mention the press also recounted it and discovered that Bush did indeed win Florida.

No, he didn't, the vote was initially counted and showed Bush ahead, they retabulated the numbers like they did in Mexico yesterday, and Bush's lead shrunk but was still there. Then Gore petitioned to have a hand recount of the votes (what I'm referring to as "opening the packets and counting the votes") and he won in the State court, the recount began then Bush petitioned to the US Supreme Court and in a 5-4 ruling the Supreme Court stopped the recount. Gore got no recount, later several newspapers went through the ballots and conducted their own recount using all different methods, they concluded that Gore would have won a statewide recount no matter what, but Gore wasn't asking for a statewide recount, only a recount in some precincts. When they counted what Gore actually asked for Bush still came out ahead no matter what method they used.

*snip*

Then you are an idiot for beliving that Gore didn't get a recount for he most assuredly day. Anybody who actually followed that election (like me) knows he got his recount and lost.

Odd, I'm looking at the opinion right now, and they quite clearly sided with Mr. Bush.

Odd, I'm looking at the opinion right now, and they quite clearly sided with Mr. Bush.

Believe whatever alternate history you want to believe. We who have followed the case (like me) knows that the votes were recounted and that Bush won. Also the Press themselves recounted the votes and found that Bush won their recount too. Don't give me the line that the votes weren't counted for they were.

AMLO is an intimate friend of Luis Echeverria, ex-president of Mexico. He was aginst freedom of speech and even had artists who made fun of him or spoke badly of Benito Juarez imprisoned.

True Democracy was born in Mexico in the year 2000 with Prsident Vicente Fox Quesada, who allowed absolute freedom of speach, he has been the only mexican president in history to allow himself to be mocked and made fun of.

If we talk about how the US stands with mexico we believe that the best president you guys ever had was Bill Clinton and the best VP was Al Gore. The latter when in his candidacy to presiden had won by popular election and yet a plan formulated by Bush Sr., Bush's brother and Cheaney, VP nowadays and an alliance with the Bin Laden family made G.W. Bush steal the election.

And AMLO made deals with harline PRIstas and suporters of the Dictatorship like Manuel Bartlet and Camacho Solis, the latter, a traitor to Mexico wanting to usurp the candidacy of Luis Donaldo Colosio, who was murdered by the PRI to which I remind you that AMLO was a part of this party and is a part of the 'Izquierda Totalitaria Mexicana' and he calls himself Radical Left, which cannot be called conservative.

Conservative in mexico means this: It is the person or Political Party that exalts the family values and society. Respecting individual freedom, freedom of speach and free enterprise. And aslo exalts Capitalism which in fact it it the same economic system that rules over the US.

And lastly when the PRD was formed it called to it's lines the Partido Comunista Mexicano(Mexican Comunist Party), which was led by Heberto Castillo known for his Marxist and Leninist ideas and who's main characteristic was the intolerance and the imposicion of the will of the party over the people under the principle that the end justifies the mean even the murder of the members of the party.

And the other thing PAN stands for is the righ to live.

If we talk about how the US stands with mexico we believe that the best president you guys ever had was Bill Clinton and the best VP was Al Gore. The latter when in his candidacy to presiden had won by popular election and yet a plan formulated by Bush Sr., Bush's brother and Cheaney, VP nowadays and an alliance with the Bin Laden family made G.W. Bush steal the election.

I respect you but this here is way out in left field for the election was never stolen to begin with.

I respect you but this here is way out in left field for the election was never stolen to begin with.

Well I'm just saying it because that's how many of us saw it. But if you say so then okay, yet a lot of you guys hate Bush and yet you allowed him to get re-elected

Well I'm just saying it because that's how many of us saw it.

I understand :)

But if you say so then okay, yet a lot of you guys hate Bush and yet you allowed him to get re-elected

Well Kerry was an idiot who wasn't running on anything except Vietnam and his military record. Its little wonder he lost. Not to mention he had no sense of humor and he puts people to sleep with the speeches he made.

But I digress on US politics when we are supposed to be focused on Mexico. I agree with most everything you said about the political climate.

I understand :)

Well Kerry was an idiot who wasn't running on anything except Vietnam and his military record. Its little wonder he lost. Not to mention he had no sense of humor and he puts people to sleep with the speeches he made.

But I digress on US politics when we are supposed to be focused on Mexico. I agree with most everything you said about the political climate.

Okay I can understand that. But it just angers me when people say things when they don't know the truth of it, like C&T saying AMLO was the best choice for us Mexicans, but he's not my post that's three or four posts up will show you why

Okay I can understand that. But it just angers me when people say things when they don't know the truth of it, like C&T saying AMLO was the best choice for us Mexicans, but he's not my post that's three or four posts up will show you why

You are getting zero argument out of me on AMLO. Not one. If he was elected president, we would have more illegal immigrants coming here. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for immigration but I also respect national boundries and national laws.

it is my hope that President-Elect Calderon helps solve the problems of Mexico and I will be praying that he does for Mexico is a wonderful country and it deserves to be looked after properly.

With that, I bid ye all good night and farewell for the next few days.

You are getting zero argument out of me on AMLO. Not one. If he was elected president, we would have more illegal immigrants coming here. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for immigration but I also respect national boundries and national laws.

it is my hope that President-Elect Calderon helps solve the problems of Mexico and I will be praying that he does for Mexico is a wonderful country and it deserves to be looked after properly.

With that, I bid ye all good night and farewell for the next few days.

And I am sorry that immigrants are causing you so much trouble but as Corneliu said if you want more ilegals entering your borders then AMLO is your guy. Calderon is the only and true hope for my country of all the candidates.

If the Electoral Tribunal finds enough reason to count the individual votes, they'll be counted; but there doesn't seem to be one, except in few cases, which have already been counted. The current Mexican electoral system is incredibly tough and reliable, the possibility of fraud is minimal, ask any of your neighbours who served as poll officer. I don't think AMLO has a case, but still, the election is close and he has a right to contest it.

I prefer Calderón over López Obrador, not because he's much better, I think both are very bad and their policies incomplete and not what the country needs at all. They both will hurt the country. I only think that Calderón will hurt it less. His economic plans are at least sound and he hasn't said he will take away social spending.

López´s economic policies are a bit more suspect, too optimistic, and not too practical. He would increase social spending, but without keeping an eye on inflationary pressures and global competitiveness. My guess is he would relly even more strongly in oil revenue. And therein lies the catch: Mexican oil is running out; in fact, this may be the last sexenio when Mexico is a net oil exporter.

Under that circumstance, Calderón's economic policies will leave the country better prepared to adapt, while López's would see more dependency on that single item.

Do I think Calderón has what it takes to bring redistribution of wealth and the rapid economic growth that the country needs? No, I don't think so; but neither does López, and long term his policies are more dangerous.

Also AMLO's style is too authoritarian, centralist, and demagogic to my taste. He repeated old vices in Mexico City; he would most likely do it again. Too bad he's ready to go back to his old shock tactics he used in Tabasco.

EDIT: By the way, who do you think is CaT's puppeteer? He's almost as good as Jesussaves!

Umm, the land of California, Nevada, Arizona, Colorado, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Kansas, Texas all BELONG TO MEXICO. The Latin@ people were there first and own the land. So it is Americans that are illegal occupiers. :(

Sorry to dissapoint, but we occupied it over 100-something years ago, we integrated those territories around the same time. They are now, legally, parts of the USA. (That and the fact that any territory gained in a war has no reason to be given up to the enemy unless a part of a cession or peace treaty.

Check with your facts before you declare a poor Mexican to be illegal, because in reality no human being is illegal.

True, to a point. A Mexican living in Mexico is legal. A Mexican living in America with legal papers is legal. A Mexican who breaks my country's laws and lives here without authorization from the government is illegal. It's a little part of civilization we call laws, get up to date chief.

P.S. What the hell is with the America bashing, I haven't seen any comments on your part about China occupying Tibet, about the UN mandate establishing Israel, nor have I seen you denouncing the horrors of the Serbs in Kosovo, or of the Sudanese in Darfur... :confused:

So who is President today in Mexico ?


BTW..that C..truth thing is a troll dont bother feeding it it will go away .

So who is President today in Mexico ?
Vicente Fox. Until December 1.
Calderón is President Elect.

BTW..that C..truth thing is a troll dont bother feeding it it will go away .
I think it's a good puppet, let's see if it can rise to the annals of classic before the mods put a stop to it.

President Chavez has a 82% approval rating according to official polls by the Venezuelan government.

Preisdent Chavez has promised to modernize Venezuela by raising up the people trapped in poor barrios.

JAJAJAJAJAJAJA

yeah, "trapped", trapped by the populists rulers like him.

82% biased approval rating, according to polls payed by his goverment. How...convenient for him.

Por favor, todo el mundo sabe que Chávez ha manipulado a nuestro pueblo. Gracias a Dios que los mexicanos son mucho más inteligentes para aceptar dádivas a cambio de votos.

Come to Venezuela if you want to check the real truth, unmanipulated by a powerful, all-present goverment that pays a lot for lobbying in its favor outside its borders. I'll even give you a free tour

Vicente Fox. Until December 1.
Calderón is President Elect.


I think it's a good puppet, let's see if it can rise to the annals of classic before the mods put a stop to it.

This is after a recount ? ( and I wonder how they managed to recount so fast ..considering the US took ..well how long ? ) .

I have to drive through Mexico on my way to Granada Nicaragua...I hate to have to dodge dudes with pitch forks looking for revolution .

JAJAJAJAJAJAJA

yeah, "trapped", trapped by the populists rulers like him.

82% biased approval rating, according to polls payed by his goverment. How...convenient for him.

Por favor, todo el mundo sabe que Chávez ha manipulado a nuestro pueblo. Gracias a Dios que los mexicanos son mucho más inteligentes para aceptar dádivas a cambio de votos.

Come to Venezuela if you want to check the real truth, unmanipulated by a powerful, all-present goverment that pays a lot for lobbying in its favor outside its borders. I'll even give you a free tour


Aelosia
...your just feeding the troll..;)

This is after a recount ? ( and I wonder how they managed to recount so fast ..considering the US took ..well how long ? ) .
This is after the official count. The losing party has until Monday to ask for a recount, then the Federal Electoral Tribunal has to decide whether to recount or not. If they choose to recount, that could take up to August 31. On September 6 there has to be a decision.

I have to drive through Mexico on my way to Granada Nicaragua...I hate to have to dodge dudes with pitch forks looking for revolution .
Nah, that won't happen.



People will be wielding machetes.

Aelosia
...your just feeding the troll..;)

I have to, to defend Chávez unconditionally without a true knowledge of cause is anathema to me.

Por favor, todo el mundo sabe que Chávez ha manipulado a nuestro pueblo. Gracias a Dios que los mexicanos son mucho más inteligentes para aceptar dádivas a cambio de votos.

Come to Venezuela if you want to check the real truth, unmanipulated by a powerful, all-present goverment that pays a lot for lobbying in its favor outside its borders. I'll even give you a free tour

I agree with you about Chavez and he is a friend and strong supporter of AMLO because they are the same kind of people.

But we Mexicans don't take handouts and we don't like handouts, we will earn our way everystep we want jobs, if the government will give us jobs than that's what I want. I don't like the fact that American citizens are troubled with ilegals, but I have a strong belief that Calderon will do something about it. AMLO(Or 'el Peje' as we call him) will not solve that problem, only worsen it.


This is after a recount ? ( and I wonder how they managed to recount so fast ..considering the US took ..well how long ? ) .


As Iztatepopotla so elocuently put it: "The current Mexican electoral system is incredibly tough and reliable, the possibility of fraud is minimal, ask any of your neighbours who served as poll officer. I don't think AMLO has a case, but still, the election is close and he has a right to contest it." Though the results will be the same after the recount of the Election Tribunal, Calderon=winner.


I have to drive through Mexico on my way to Granada Nicaragua...I hate to have to dodge dudes with pitch forks looking for revolution .

Ah come on...now you're insulting my countrymen? We can't afford guns otherwise we would have them instead of pitchforks.

But we Mexicans don't take handouts and we don't like handouts, we will earn our way everystep we want jobs, if the government will give us jobs than that's what I want. I don't like the fact that American citizens are troubled with ilegals, but I have a strong belief that Calderon will do something about it. AMLO(Or 'el Peje' as we call him) will not solve that problem, only worsen it.

Our region needs more people like you voting, and not the "Gimme a loaf of bread and a beer and I'll vote for you" kind. Congratulations to the mexican people that avoided another populist solution to their problems.

Humala and AMLO down, let's see if Brazil also starts to think better. For us, it's a lost case, we cannot win.

Our region needs more people like you voting, and not the "Gimme a loaf of bread and a beer and I'll vote for you" kind. Congratulations to the mexican people that avoided another populist solution to their problems.

Humala and AMLO down, let's see if Brazil also starts to think better. For us, it's a lost case, we cannot win.

I hope your situation changes and I will be praying for it too ;)

Our region needs more people like you voting, and not the "Gimme a loaf of bread and a beer and I'll vote for you" kind. Congratulations to the mexican people that avoided another populist solution to their problems.

That's because Mexicans have been screwed so much and so long by that kind of candidate. It came to be not just a loaf of bread and beer, but bicycles and washing machines. People will take them, of course, but then vote for whoever they want :D

Secret vote, after all.

That's because Mexicans have been screwed so much and so long by that kind of candidate. It came to be not just a loaf of bread and beer, but bicycles and washing machines. People will take them, of course, but then vote for whoever they want :D

Secret vote, after all.

True...hey we know that if they give you something once they reach power they'll take away from you more so screw them. We vote for who we want :D

Secret vote, after all.

Thats the key, if you have the secrecy of vote guaranteed, you can vote for whoever you want to, even if that means accepting gifts or whatever else.

People here in Venezuela would put even their jobs in jeopardy if they do not vote for Chávez and his lackeys in the elections, as the secrecy of our vote is not guaranteed anymore. There are lists, even in the internet, where you can put your ID number and it tells for who you did vote. Discrimination is used by the goverment to secure that the population remains under its control.

Thats the key, if you have the secrecy of vote guaranteed, you can vote for whoever you want to, even if that means accepting gifts or whatever else.

People here in Venezuela would put even their jobs in jeopardy if they do not vote for Chávez and his lackeys in the elections, as the secrecy of our vote is not guaranteed anymore. There are lists, even in the internet, where you can put your ID number and it tells for who you did vote. Discrimination is used by the goverment to secure that the population remains under its control.

And how do you feel about the US intelligence watching closely Hugo Chavez as a potential Terrorist?

Well I'm just saying it because that's how many of us saw it. But if you say so then okay, yet a lot of you guys hate Bush and yet you allowed him to get re-elected
The democrats have had a severe problem with running strong candidates in most national or statewide elections. For example, my current Governor Bob Taft who's got the personality of an old piece of plastic, was re-elected in 2002. The only thing he's got going for him is his name, after all, the Taft's are an old political family in Ohio, and is arguably the most lackluster candidate I ever thought possible. The democrat who ran against him in 2002 lost thoroughly.

Another comparison I have to make is the total failure of logistics on the part of the democrats. I attended rallies for both George Bush and John Kerry in 2004. The Kerry rally started nearly three hours late, well after dark with insufficient lighting, with a gigantic crowd of people just standing there, in a muddy field. There were no concessions, no water, nothing. On the opposite end, at the Bush rally, it was inside an airconditioned indoor hockey arena. It started right on time, and they had roasted cashews and coca-cola. I couldn't have been happier. Which rally do you think the supporters came away from with more energy?

Yeah. The democrats suck at campaigning in Ohio. That's why they lose.

And how do you feel about the US intelligence watching closely Hugo Chavez as a potential Terrorist?

Pretty dumb, they are giving Chávez exactly what he wants, a weapon he can wield against imperialism, and a excuse to spend our money in buying weapons that we do not need, like Sukoi planes, instead of using it for something useful.

The democrats have had a severe problem with running strong candidates in most national or statewide elections. For example, my current Governor Bob Taft who's got the personality of an old piece of plastic, was re-elected in 2002. The only thing he's got going for him is his name, after all, the Taft's are an old political family in Ohio, and is arguably the most lackluster candidate I ever thought possible. The democrat who ran against him in 2002 lost thoroughly.

Another comparison I have to make is the total failure of logistics on the part of the democrats. I attended rallies for both George Bush and John Kerry in 2004. The Kerry rally started nearly three hours late, well after dark with insufficient lighting, with a gigantic crowd of people just standing there, in a muddy field. There were no concessions, no water, nothing. On the opposite end, at the Bush rally, it was inside an airconditioned indoor hockey arena. It started right on time, and they had roasted cashews and coca-cola. I couldn't have been happier. Which rally do you think the supporters came away from with more energy?

Yeah. The democrats suck at campaigning in Ohio. That's why they lose.

I can understand that, it's their own fault they are disorganized if you are disorganized at your campaign people will think you will have a disorganized government. It's all about presenting the right image.

Pretty dumb, they are giving Chávez exactly what he wants, a weapon he can wield against imperialism, and a excuse to spend our money in buying weapons that we do not need, like Sukoi planes, instead of using it for something useful.

Yeah, that is understandable. I hate that he's doing that to you guys I love Venezuela :(