NationStates Jolt Archive

4x4s. why does everybody drive these lumps. for one thing they pollute the planet more than a regular car. about twice as much actually. they are too big for our roads and they are only needed if you own a large area of land eg a farm. another thing is tthey are sooo ugly and don't look good.

Trains pollute the planet more than cars even per person. Do you want to get rid of them too?

to be honest , trains are one of the least polluting forms of transport on the planet. planes being the most polluting. besides one train can carry about 60 or 70 people per carriage.

4x4s. why does everybody drive these lumps. for one thing they pollute the planet more than a regular car. about twice as much actually. they are too big for our roads and they are only needed if you own a large area of land eg a farm. another thing is tthey are sooo ugly and don't look good.
I own an acre, but I use a 4WD truck to get to hunting and fishing spots. What's wrong with that?

And if we're after ugly, let's burn down Pontiac for producing that awful Aztec.

nothing at all. thats what 4x4s are meant for. like i said only buy one if you own a large area of land like you, besides what i mean by 4x4s being "ugly" is that they are huge and take up half the road, especially on a country lane or road

You also need 4x4 if you live out in the country and the city doesn't come and clear your street of snow until after the snow has melted.

4x4s. why does everybody drive these lumps. for one thing they pollute the planet more than a regular car. about twice as much actually. they are too big for our roads and they are only needed if you own a large area of land eg a farm. another thing is tthey are sooo ugly and don't look good.

Are there no mountains with snow or dirt/mud roads where you live?

I have to have one, I lug too much crap to have a car, and also, it's rough terrain around here sometimes.

I plan to get a hybrid SUV as soon as I can........

nothing at all. thats what 4x4s are meant for. like i said only buy one if you own a large area of land like you
But I run it in 2WD the rest of the time and I'm just as economical as any other 2WD truck with a V-8. What was wrong with having 4WD?

I have to have one, I lug too much crap to have a car, and also, it's rough terrain around here sometimes.

I plan to get a hybrid SUV as soon as I can........
I had my hopes up when I saw a Chevy ad for a hybrid Silverado. They don't sell them in Georgia, though.

Depends where you live, really. 4WD is really useful in Canada with the weather and the mountains.

I do think more 4WD vehicles should burn diesel, though. It's far more efficient.

nothing at all. thats what 4x4s are meant for. like i said only buy one if you own a large area of land like you, besides what i mean by 4x4s being "ugly" is that they are huge and take up half the road, especially on a country lane or road

Even if they are only used to travel round town you can still get spray on dirt (http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Sprayon_dirt_sold_to_make_SUVs_look__0630.html).

Try driving through a foot of snow on poorly plowed roads and tell me that you don't need 4 wheel drive. :p

4x4s. why does everybody drive these lumps. for one thing they pollute the planet more than a regular car. about twice as much actually. they are too big for our roads and they are only needed if you own a large area of land eg a farm. another thing is tthey are sooo ugly and don't look good.
There's a difference between a 4x4 and an SUV. It's rather sad to have an SUV but not to have the 4x4 capability.

And yes, the number of *completely* city drivers that have SUVs is quite sad. I take small consolation in the fact that they are paying even more for the gas they load into their mini tanks quite often.

You know you are all talking bollocks. You know how antisocial these piles of shite are. Hey, why drive a suv in TOWN???? Get a life and grow. Builders, farmers-okay. If you need a car-get something that does the job. Your 4X4 does what? Pollute more than a train? Which part of whose brain are you using? Good grief.

I have to have one, I lug too much crap to have a car, and also, it's rough terrain around here sometimes.

I plan to get a hybrid SUV as soon as I can........

Onyxmoron.

4x4s. why does everybody drive these lumps. for one thing they pollute the planet more than a regular car. about twice as much actually. they are too big for our roads and they are only needed if you own a large area of land eg a farm. another thing is tthey are sooo ugly and don't look good.

Well, most business buy them by the hundreds for "work trucks", and construction crews use them quite alot. They are pretty much essential, in order to tow heavy things and make it through rough terrain. I love mine.

Chelsea tractors. How do you live with yourselves?

Onyxmoron.
I want this (http://www.fordvehicles.com/escapehybrid/home/) one, it should replace my Jeep nicely. :cool:

Assuming you're talking about SUVs (if you're not, my apologies), I would say that they have their uses, although I'm not a fan of people owning them when they are exclusively city drivers. My boyfriend's parents have a Toyota Highlander, one of the smaller SUVs, and use it fairly frequently for trips up to Lake Tahoe. Last winter my boyfriend and I went up to the lake for a weekend and borrowed the Highlander, and let me tell you we were glad we were in that instead of his Honda Civic.

I drive a rural mail route. 100 miles of gravel. I kick on the FWD maybe once or twice each winter. Ran it for 5 years before I even had FWD.

The biggest problem with FWD is people think they can go anywhere at anytime at any speed. The problem with that is FWD gets you started but doesn't stop you. The brakes of a FWD are the same as on a 2WD. Most of the time the people rolled over in the ditch are FWD. They can't feel the slip so drive too fast and when they need to stop they lose it.

Try driving through a foot of snow on poorly plowed roads and tell me that you don't need 4 wheel drive. :p

I totally agree. I live in New England, and the winters can get bad here. That's why I own a 4x4 Chevy Silverado (pickup).

Onyxmoron.
Onyxmoron?

I want this (http://www.fordvehicles.com/escapehybrid/home/) one, it should replace my Jeep nicely. :cool:

Five bucks says it'll still be a gas guzzler! Comon, get a truck man!

Well, most business buy them by the hundreds for "work trucks", and construction crews use them quite alot. They are pretty much essential, in order to tow heavy things and make it through rough terrain. I love mine.And 99.9% of the time, that's complete bullshit. companies just buy them because they're cheap & look cool. Trust me, I've been in the business for 10 years. SUVs & other 4WDs are just toys.

I fucking hate the things. What infuriates me beyond measure is a parent driving their solitary brat to school in one of the oversized pieces of shit, when the school is only half a mile away down a reasonably surfaced road. It happens all the bloody time here.

I can understand farmers and people who go over dodgy terrain on a regular basis having them, but it's beyond me why an average family in surburbia feel the need to own one.

Five bucks says it'll still be a gas guzzler! Comon, get a truck man!
find a truck that will be safe for my girls and I am game, all the trucks I looked at had low crash test ratings, I have to lug in addition to 2 preschool aged children, twice a month $300 in groceries, 40lbs of dog food, and then 3 times a week I have so much stuff that when my Jeep broke and I borrowed my mom's Kia that I filled the trunk, backseat and passenger side front with it, and still left some behind and had to make 2 trips.

2 days a week, I get up at 6am, and run all my errands, I don't get done until 6pm, I don't come home between I have to take everything and plot my course carefully, if I got a car and had to come home between errands to load/unload not only would I waste 4 or 5 hours a day, but I would waste gas, having to travel at least 40 miles more for those trips.

Oh dearie me. Buy an estate car. Did you really think a Ka would be big enough? But you still do not need an SUV. 4X4's are an utter waste of space. And the planet. And lives. They're dangerous buggers, both for those inside and out.
Next target: bullbars. These stupid things kill an extra 8 kids a year in the UK. How about Stateside?

After reading some of the comment here trying to justify SUV, it feel like everybody in Quebec should own a Hummer because of the snow....

Come on! I had a Suzuki Swift for 3 years and drove it trougth snow anytime I needed it to.

And 99.9% of the time, that's complete bullshit. companies just buy them because they're cheap & look cool. Trust me, I've been in the business for 10 years. SUVs & other 4WDs are just toys.

Very true, people get a false impression of security.

Oh dearie me. Buy an estate car. Did you really think a Ka would be big enough? But you still do not need an SUV. 4X4's are an utter waste of space. And the planet. And lives. They're dangerous buggers, both for those inside and out.
My jeep is safer than most of the other cars I see around here, it gets better gas milage than my Buick did, and it's really not any of your business what I drive. I don't turn the 4x4 on unless it's snowing or if I am driving in the Arbuckles so..... whatever.

:D i just want to know, what now is :D everybodys thoughts on SUVs and 4x4s

4x4s. why does everybody drive these lumps. for one thing they pollute the planet more than a regular car. about twice as much actually. they are too big for our roads and they are only needed if you own a large area of land eg a farm. another thing is tthey are sooo ugly and don't look good.


waaaa, boo hoo!! they are ugly and don't look good. that's your opninion. go get a prius and stop the b!tching. I drive a jeep that gets close to 12mpg, oh and i don't have a cat either :eek: . Why are 4x4 needed? next winter when you fall down the stairs and can't get up but some how majically get a phone to call the fire dept., what do you think they use to get in to work through blinding snow storms? wait, let me guess, 4wd vehicles. oh yeah, and those rich ass doctors that drive their bmw's, vettes and mercedes sedans, how do you think they get into work? oh yeah, the surrounding community goes and picks them up and takes them to the hospital to save your tree hugging {insert adj here}. say that's BS? call any local hospital and ask how they get staff into the hospital when the roads have all been closed by the government. Don't start up a dumb argument with a stance of "ewww they are ugly and don't look good."
What do you drive?

and no, truck for constuction companies aren't all show. that's another dumb statement. You think you could fit all those tools in a gas friendly honda? nope. You think that a vehicle as light as a hybrid SUV can tow around full sized bobcats? pipe layers? mowers? nope. whatever "business" you've been in for the last 10 years is not construction. and to say they are cheap? getting a 4WD Desiel truck is not cheap. Not to mention the fact that light duty SUV's will get stuck on a wet/muddy job site 10x easier than a full sized pickup. Don't even think about trying to argue that one.

Trains pollute the planet more than cars even per person. Do you want to get rid of them too?

Can you prove this?

I don't see how an extra 200lb hunk of gears and 1" taller tires signifigantly pollutes more than normal cars.

They're needed for some occupations as an alternative to trucks or vans and they can tow a lot of stuff. However, most people either buy them for the luxuries and space they provide, for transporting their kids and/or coworkers, or as a status symbol. They're hardly needed, but for that matter neither was the car for about 11,880 years of human civilization.

The company that develops a hybrid vehicle the size of the Chevy Suburban or Ford Expeditionthat gets 35 MPG and is cost-competitive with non-hybrid versions will make hundreds of billions of dollars and will dominate the SUV market almost overnight It'll be a literal mint of cash for the lucky company just like ordinary SUVs were in the 1990's. Ford's on the right track with its Escape Hybrid, but they'll really make money with a 40-mpg Explorer or Excursion.

Chevy Suburban (http://www.edmunds.com/media/news/column/letterstoeditors/04.december/05.chevy.suburban.500.jpg)

Ford Expedition (http://biz3.50below.com/files/facility/porterfieldtireinc.com/ford-expedition.jpg)

in their very engineering they're designed as an all terrain vehicle

i dont see the point in porche and the top end manufacturers bringing 4x4's out, because lets face it, who's going to pay that kind of money and then take it off road?.. it could get scratched! :eek:

they're a status symbol

proper 4x4's that are used as they're intended, no problem

I want this (http://www.fordvehicles.com/escapehybrid/home/) one, it should replace my Jeep nicely. :cool:

you should take a look at the toyota highlander hybrid...its a lot better quality than the ford hybrid, my dad got one last year and he loves it its a great car with lots of room

Ford's on the right track with its Escape Hybrid, but they'll really make money with a 40-mpg Explorer or Excursion.
hybrid Excursion *drools* that would be so fun.....and uh....useful......yeah. I don't "need" anything that big, but I would pop out a few more kids for one.....LOL (just kidding)

My jeep is safer than most of the other cars I see around here, it gets better gas milage than my Buick did, and it's really not any of your business what I drive. I don't turn the 4x4 on unless it's snowing or if I am driving in the Arbuckles so..... whatever.

Since the worlds safest car is generally know to be the Reneut Megane, I would withdraw that statement.

http://www.carpages.co.uk/renault/renault-wins-what-car-safety-award-22-01-05.asp

What people choose to drive is the business of nobody but themself. They are not significantly more polluting than other cars; the car industry has just allowed itself to be picked on as the scapegoat of the (enviro)mentalists.

The idea that the whole planet is going to die in a horrific way just because Mrs Higgins down the street has a car sending the power to four wheels instead of two is absurd.

you should take a look at the toyota highlander hybrid...its a lot better quality than the ford hybrid, my dad got one last year and he loves it its a great car with lots of room
ah, my family would be pissed enough if I got the Ford, I am waiting for GM to come up with something useful to me, we get a GM discount and everything :p

Since the worlds safest car is generally know to be the Reneut Megane, I would withdraw that statement.

http://www.carpages.co.uk/renault/renault-wins-what-car-safety-award-22-01-05.asp
My friend, you're about three years out of date with that one.

I believe the current safest car is the new Ford Focus. It got maximum points in the front impact tests.

hybrid Excursion *drools* that would be so fun.....and uh....useful......yeah. I don't "need" anything that big, but I would pop out a few more kids for one.....LOL (just kidding)

They're so roomy and have so many amenities...I could only imagine what they'd sell like if they got 40 MPG. Not cheap, however...you have to have serious cash to buy a gasoline one let alone a hybrid.

40 MPG plus 19 cupholders, plenty of legroom and a DVD player equals travel heaven.

Since the worlds safest car is generally know to be the Reneut Megane, I would withdraw that statement.

http://www.carpages.co.uk/renault/renault-wins-what-car-safety-award-22-01-05.asp
I have never seen one of those, I said safer than most of the cars I see around, meaning safer than the other cars that are popular in my area.

read much?

You know you are all talking bollocks. You know how antisocial these piles of shite are. Hey, why drive a suv in TOWN???? Get a life and grow. Builders, farmers-okay. If you need a car-get something that does the job. Your 4X4 does what? Pollute more than a train? Which part of whose brain are you using? Good grief.
I think we're using the part of our brain that says, "It's my choice."

ah, my family would be pissed enough if I got the Ford, I am waiting for GM to come up with something useful to me, we get a GM discount and everything :p

I remember reading something about hybrid versions of the Tahoe and the Escalade coming out soon. 25-30 combined MPG would even be great mileage since that puts them on the same level as a decent-sized car.

My friend, you're about three years out of date with that one.

I believe the current safest car is the new Ford Focus. It got maximum points in the front impact tests.

Thats front impact tests, as I am aware the Megane wins out over all. I could of course, be mistaken, will explore this further at another time

PS only 1 year, the article I sourced comes from 05

I remember reading something about hybrid versions of the Tahoe and the Escalade coming out soon. 25-30 combined MPG would even be great mileage since that puts them on the same level as a decent-sized car.
I have messed with my Jeep enough that I am getting 28mpg with it now... it would take a lot for me to get rid of it, it's old and ugly, but I am attached.

ah, my family would be pissed enough if I got the Ford, I am waiting for GM to come up with something useful to me, we get a GM discount and everything :p
ah...the reason my dad got the toyots is because they were the first ones to come out with a hybrid and then ford "bought" the hybrid tech from toyota and dumbed it down and put it in their cars lol

I own an 05 Dodge Ram. It's big, beautiful, tows my boat trailer, helps me cut down trees (hook it up to a chain and pull the bugger down) and I fear no deer. If my truck isn't useful, nothing is.

ah...the reason my dad got the toyots is because they were the first ones to come out with a hybrid and then ford "bought" the hybrid tech from toyota and dumbed it down and put it in their cars lol
yep.

the joke goes (in my heavily GM oriented family)

FORD Fix Or Repair Daily
Found On Road Dead
Fu***d Over Rebuilt Dodge.....

yeah I know like 50 of them.

I have never seen one of those, I said safer than most of the cars I see around, meaning safer than the other cars that are popular in my area.

read much?

So there are no Meganes in America? Well then America is being strange.

My point is the argument of a 4x4 being "safe" is flawed. 4x4's can only be called safe because they are so big that anything hitting them has to get through much more metal to reach you. But if its another 4x4 you have problems. Anyway, while it may or may not safer for you, its more dangerous to everyone around you, pediestrian and road user alike. If you want to make a car safer, use better technology. In the UK our cars are safe and they arnt brutes. And as for carrying lots of people, has no one heard of a people carrier? A Ford Galaxy for instance?

:headbang:

SUV are more polluting. They are twice bigger ,require twice more energy and therefore reject twice more gaz. A Jeep drink around 12L for 100 Km an Accent around 6. Not hard to figure out.

Thats front impact tests, as I am aware the Megane wins out over all. I could of course, be mistaken, will explore this further at another time

PS only 1 year, the article I sourced comes from 05
The Megane is a relatively old car now, and things move on quickly. I'm not saying that it's unsafe, but it won't be the safest overall anymore.

And now, because these pictures are so cool, I'll show Smunkeeville what the Megane looks like:

http://www.euroncap.com/images/results/small_family_cars/car_146_2002/megane_2002.jpg

I have messed with my Jeep enough that I am getting 28mpg with it now... it would take a lot for me to get rid of it, it's old and ugly, but I am attached.
That's great mileage from a Jeep. Any Jeep. I get about 15 mpg on the average with my Tundra and I used to think that was great. Thanks for ruining my day:)

So there are no Meganes in America? Well then America is being strange.
there aren't any where I live
that I have noticed.
My point is the argument of a 4x4 being "safe" is flawed. 4x4's can only be called safe because they are so big that anything hitting them has to get through much more metal to reach you.
damn skippy, if something does hit me around here you want to know what it will be? one of these (http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/lw/cmvlaw/registration/Image21.jpg), that's right that's what drives through here at the rate of 100's a day, and everyone else I see that's not in a truck or an SUV like min is in one of these (http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/jc/images/98metro_cpe.jpg), I can't bear to drive my kids around in a roller skate to "make you feel better"

That's great mileage from a Jeep. Any Jeep. I get about 15 mpg on the average with my Tundra and I used to think that was great. Thanks for ruining my day:)
http://www.inct.net/~autotips/mpg.htm

So there are no Meganes in America? Well then America is being strange.

Renault doesn't sell cars in America. I don't think Peugeot or Citroën do, either.

I have messed with my Jeep enough that I am getting 28mpg with it now... it would take a lot for me to get rid of it, it's old and ugly, but I am attached.

That's pretty damn good! 28 MPG is better than the Accord I'm driving now; were I able to get a good lease on a hybrid SUV I'd consider it, but right now I'm sticking to cars. Maye a hybrid Prius or the like, but they're hard to get and there's a demand premium on their price.

Also, the Chrysler 300 is a sharp car...if they made a hybrid of that, I can only imagine what it would do to their bottom line not to mention the savings to it customers. A little expensive for me to lease, however.

That's pretty damn good! 28 MPG is better than the Accord I'm driving now; were I able to get a good lease on a hybrid SUV I'd consider it, but right now I'm sticking to cars. Maye a hybrid Prius or the like, but they're hard to get and there's a demand premium on their price.

Also, the Chrysler 300 is a sharp car...if they made a hybrid of that, I can only imagine what it would do to their bottom line not to mention the savings to it customers. A little expensive for me to lease, however.
I have one of those performance air intake thingys on my Jeep, it upped me from 20 to 28, and I got up to 20 by replacing a bunch of crap ;)

http://www.inct.net/~autotips/mpg.htm
Thanks.

Also, the Chrysler 300 is a sharp car...if they made a hybrid of that, I can only imagine what it would do to their bottom line not to mention the savings to it customers. A little expensive for me to lease, however.
Some things just aren't ment to be. I think the 300 should go back to it's roots as a big, heavy, luxurious, pseudo-musclecar that sucks gas and pollutes like a b!tch...

Where I live in Vermont, they are needed, we get a ton of snow on the roads, and there is no way I could make it up my driveway without a 4x4.


BTW-This is a really fucking stupid thread, I dont even know why I responded.......Asshole...... :upyours:

Why shouldn't I be allowed to own a 4x4?

Some things just aren't ment to be. I think the 300 should go back to it's roots as a big, heavy, luxurious, pseudo-musclecar that sucks gas and pollutes like a b!tch...
If they put a rag top on the 300 and fixed up the grille a little, I'd have one in the garage so fast, your head would spin. I'd have the HEMI, of course.

Why shouldn't I be allowed to own a 4x4?
Didn't you read? Someone thinks they're ugly.

4x4s. why does everybody drive these lumps. for one thing they pollute the planet more than a regular car. about twice as much actually. they are too big for our roads and they are only needed if you own a large area of land eg a farm. another thing is tthey are sooo ugly and don't look good.

I am assume that Smegsenland was, in this post, referring to 4X4s being used in (sub)urban environments in benign climates. This is certainly the case where I live in London. In a city for your average driver 4X4s have nothing over large estate cars or people carriers, which are better for the environment and cheaper to run.

If you're a farmer, builder or drive over terrain a two wheel drive cannot, please do not take offense.

Didn't you read? Someone thinks they're ugly.
A pity. Lest I insult someone. I don't like 4x4s, but there's no reason to ban them.

Some things just aren't ment to be. I think the 300 should go back to it's roots as a big, heavy, luxurious, pseudo-musclecar that sucks gas and pollutes like a b!tch...

That's why they sell so well...people want cars that look good first and get good mileage second.

Why shouldn't I be allowed to own a 4x4?

- They over polute
- They are overly dangerous
- Unless you do have to frequently haul large goods around or go on multiple terrains for reasons other than fun, they are unessecary

Smegensland-You are grossly oversimplyfying the situation and tarring the debate. You are actually a drain on the cause, I wish you'd stop as you make actual progress difficult. I'm for efficiency and people taking responsablity for the impact they make, but it's a fine tooth, not a wide brush. Quit embarassing the rest of us.

- They over polute
By whose definition?
- They are overly dangerous
How?
- Unless you do have to frequently haul large goods around or go on multiple terrains for reasons other than fun, they are unessecary
Technically, everything but eating, drinking and sleeping is unnecessary, and hey even then, only if you want to live.
Being on this forum right now is unecessary.

damn skippy, if something does hit me around here you want to know what it will be? one of these (http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/lw/cmvlaw/registration/Image21.jpg), that's right that's what drives through here at the rate of 100's a day, and everyone else I see that's not in a truck or an SUV like min is in one of these (http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/jc/images/98metro_cpe.jpg), I can't bear to drive my kids around in a roller skate to "make you feel better"

If you had a megane or had any knowlege of vechiles beyond your area (say an understanding of the world beyond "where you can see") you would know that there are hundruds of other ways to make a car safe than just by making it bigger. SIPS (Side Imapact Protection system) as used by Volvo, Airbags, crumple zones (to redirect damage to less serious parts) and may other technologies do this. And as for your arguement "Everyone else has got one, if I dont I wont be safe" that kind of attitude gets no one anywhere. What will end up happening if you take it to its full extreme is everyone drives tanks and the sky being blue is a myth from a time before the Champion 9 12 wheel drive family mini-tank.

By whose definition?

Everyones. They are the most fuel inefficent vechiles on the road. Its absolutely absurd


How?

If one of those things crashes into anything, far more damage will be caused than if something smaller and most likly safer did the same


Technically, everything but eating, drinking and sleeping is unnecessary, and hey even then, only if you want to live.
Being on this forum right now is unecessary.

Straw man. You knew my point. You dont need a 4x4 to do most activities in a suburb of London. Combine that with the dangerous poluting and size and it is silly to own one

Everyones. They are the most fuel inefficent vechiles on the road. Its absolutely absurd
So they polute, but overpolution is relative.
If one of those things crashes into anything, far more damage will be caused than if something smaller and most likly safer did the same
Depends on the situation.
Straw man. You knew my point. You dont need a 4x4 to do most activities in a suburb of London. Combine that with the dangerous poluting and size and it is silly to own one
Lot's of things are silly, but people do them anyway, especially in London.

- They over polute
- They are overly dangerous
- Unless you do have to frequently haul large goods around or go on multiple terrains for reasons other than fun, they are unessecary

Dangerous? It depends who's driving it. A scooter is a dangerous, even lethal weapon in the hands of a bad driver.

Why do I need someone to tell me that I don't have the right to own a certain sort of civilian vehicle? If I can afford it, do I not deserve it?

Case study: I own a Lacoste polo shirt, which costs $100. I could buy a generic polo shirt at Wal*Mart for $10. While not as fancy, it still covers my torso. Because the more expensive shirt with a spiffy crocodile applique costs 10 times as much and is technically unnecessary, does that mean it should be banned? After all, it requires more resources.

in their very engineering they're designed as an all terrain vehicle

i dont see the point in porche and the top end manufacturers bringing 4x4's out, because lets face it, who's going to pay that kind of money and then take it off road?.. it could get scratched! :eek:

they're a status symbol

proper 4x4's that are used as they're intended, no problem

good point,however,if you live in an inclement area and you need to even travel on paved roads,when the snow comes...all wheel drive does come in handy.
my getaway is about an hour from philly,north...and a kazillion people have moved there from nyc or near there.
i usually drive a van up there so i can bring my gixxer with me,my work truck,but it is absolutely horrid on gas.
last year i could not get up the mountain(a paved road) with my van,ended up getting stuck,pulled out..then had to go 20 miles out of my way to get there from behind.
so i just bought a used chevy blazer,the little one with all wheel,and now iknow i can get where i need to go..and it is way more eficient on gas.
to bring my bike,i will now have to get a trailor,as it is a 3 hour drive,and my back cant take the gixxer for 3 hours,and i aint wasting the gas driving my van(10 miles a gallon)
my point is,alot of people up there need 4 wheel drive during the winter to get to work...period.
and you can put them in 2 wheel most of the time,unless you want to burn your cash,but when the winter comes..great to have!

now i am green to an extent,but even reality needs to check in once in awhile..people do need 4 wheel in lots of places.
now some status seeking soccer mom driving to and fro to the school and grocery store,in a southern state is stupid,when they never take trips off road or out of state.

up by my place though,people do have high end porches and such,cause they are rich and can afford them..but they do need them for at least 4 months of the year.

and they are no worse on fuel then a big tahoe or some such truck/suv...probably better.

I drive a little Beetle, but my dad drives a Ram, my mum a Suburban, and my sister a Vue. Daddy works construction, mum owns a flea market, and my sister is a hockey goalie. Whenever they're in their larger cars, they are using them to their full potential, and we live in the country too. If you actually use the SUVs, doesn't it make since to own them?

Now, little blonde soccer moms in Hummers, that enrages me to no end, especially because I can't see past the huge cars like that when I'm in my Beetle. I've almost had a lot of wrecks because I can't see around other cars, and considering when I first started driving five years ago, it wasn't like that, I have to assume it's the larger cars and not me. Or I'm getting old.

If you had a megane or had any knowlege of vechiles beyond your area (say an understanding of the world beyond "where you can see") you would know that there are hundruds of other ways to make a car safe than just by making it bigger. SIPS (Side Imapact Protection system) as used by Volvo, Airbags, crumple zones (to redirect damage to less serious parts) and may other technologies do this. And as for your arguement "Everyone else has got one, if I dont I wont be safe" that kind of attitude gets no one anywhere. What will end up happening if you take it to its full extreme is everyone drives tanks and the sky being blue is a myth from a time before the Champion 9 12 wheel drive family mini-tank.
I can't fit my stuff into a Volvo, I didn't say that SUV's were the safest thing ever, I am saying when I am on the road with my family in an area that is overpopulated by trucks and 18 wheelers, I feel a little safer in a Jeep.

I think you and I are going to have to agree to disagree.

I bought it, it's mine, no matter how much it annoys you I won't stop driving it until I feel like it.

You dont need a 4x4 to do most activities in a suburb of London.

True, but not everyone lives in a suburb of London. Or even in a metropolitan area. Let me post a few pics of the sort of weather we experience where I live.

I'm sure you can imagine why someone might be justified in buying a 4x4 up here. Keep in mind that there is snow 4-5 months out of the year up here.

http://www.famousmichigan.com/Images/winterroads.jpg

http://www.pcsum.org/photos/winter.jpg

http://www.kortefam.com/snowjan04/.scaled/DSC00977.JPG

It's part of the over-compensation culture. Some men can't function, so they get an SUV to compensate for the fact that they can't. So their wifes/girlfriends are frustrated. The wives and girlfriends get SUVs to compensate for the fact that they're frustrated. It's something that men and women have in common.

I don't have a problem with the 4x4 being used for country folk who really do need them to get aroung the rolling hillocks and swamps but i have a massive problem with Yuppies driving their BS status symbols, 'look at me i have a 4x4'
If it ain't a Landrover it ain't cool.
Hummers should be banned from personel use.

SUVs smell funny.

I don't have a problem with the 4x4 being used for country folk who really do need them to get aroung the rolling hillocks and swamps but i have a massive problem with Yuppies driving their BS status symbols, 'look at me i have a 4x4'
If it ain't a Landrover it ain't cool.
Hummers should be banned from personel use.
Land Rover's are piles of shit--they're British.
Though Hummer H1's are sexy with their 80mph top speed.

My dad and all his buddies all have big 4x4's (mostly Dodge Rams with the Cummins turbo Desiel) and they get taken up northa few times a year as we go hunting, camping, landscaping dad's buddy's lakeside lot, or simply sportlogging. Sure, for camping and sport logging we could drive our cars but, they cannot keep above 120 clicks whilst towing the ATV's and beer.

Land Rover's are piles of shit--they're British.
Though Hummer H1's are sexy with their 80mph top speed.

My dad and all his buddies all have big 4x4's (mostly Dodge Rams with the Cummins turbo Desiel) and they get taken up northa few times a year as we go hunting, camping, landscaping dad's buddy's lakeside lot, or simply sportlogging. Sure, for camping and sport logging we could drive our cars but, they cannot keep above 120 clicks whilst towing the ATV's and beer.
The Landrover kicks arse and will continue to do so.
The Gods must be crazy can't be wrong.

The Landrover kicks arse and will continue to do so.
The Gods must be crazy can't be wrong.
What's this about your Gods?

What's this about your Gods?
Movie where a black man in Africa tries to return an empty coke bottle to some toursits...
Anti Christ is the name of a vehicle
*nods*

Movie where a black man in Africa tries to return an empty coke bottle to some toursits...
Anti Christ is the name of a vehicle
*nods*
I remember seeing parts of that movie. Had some moments.

I remember seeing parts of that movie. Had some moments.
Bloody funny and the sequel ain't half bad either.

If your 4X4 slides down a hill and hits a tree and your more worried about the tree, then you're in a proper 4X4. Series Land Rovers fit that bill.

Are they needed? Well, clearly not, like so much of the stuff that fills up a consumer society -- all them different types of shampoo. Why do we feel a need to buy them given their negative consequences -- pollution, fuel conseumption, etc. -- is probably a more interesting question.

If your 4X4 slides down a hill and hits a tree and your more worried about the tree, then you're in a proper 4X4. Series Land Rovers fit that bill.
You'd just need to learn to drive it properly.

Some people need a 4x4, no one will ever need a SUV

Some people need a 4x4, no one will ever need a SUV
So you are saying that all the tasks one can perform with a SUV, one can perform with another single vehicle?

So you are saying that all the tasks one can perform with a SUV, one can perform with another single vehicle?

people coped before SUV's

people coped before SUV's
By buying more than one vehicle. Being ableto replace a minivan and truck with an SUV can save a person allot of money.

By buying more than one vehicle. Being ableto replace a minivan and truck with an SUV can save a person allot of money.

no not really 2+ car families have only been prevalent since the mid to late
80's.

We as a society have just got lazy and look for excuses to justify our over exuberance in a commerical world

You'd just need to learn to drive it properly.
If you have to pussy foot, then your 4X4 is a pussy.

If you have to pussy foot, then your 4X4 is a pussy.
There is a difference between pussy footing and not being a moron.

SUVs and such irritate me, but I don't think they should be banned.

What's irritating about them to me is that they make my (big) car look small! And, yeah, they *are* ugly. Most, if not all, of them are glumpy, unstylish blobs. It's like the design people all went home, and some dudes in some unrelated, nonartistic department had to do the designs instead.

Also a lot of SUV-drivers drive as if they think they're in a tank (invincibility complex) and thereby make themselves a danger to everything else on the road.

I think one reason they're so popular, at least in the US, is that there aren't many other big-vehicle alternatives (and the ones that that do exist have an "old fogey car" reputation stuck to them, which dampens sales. I ignored the rep, but it seems that a lot of people care about that kind of nonsense...). Plus, they are "in." Most US Americans would rather drive even a big ugly blob, than be stuck in a little "carlet" that seems more like riding on a covered bicycle. I'm a bit surprised to see that the Curse of SUVs is/has spread to the UK, though, with the price of gasoline over there!

Need-wise, in my area, most if not all of the SUV and 4WD drivers just driven around town, and have as much "real use" for them as a bump on a log. House-construction people have vans and midsize pickups. The ones who put up strip malls and such may go for 4WDs, since they have more reason to actually have to drive on ungraded or rough-graded areas, but for houses they just park in the street or on firm ground and carry their stuff to the site.

When it comes to driving through the endless Michigan winter snows, I've driven through that crap in everything from a Chevette to an old Grand Marquis (and now, a fairly new one). IMO there is no need for anything special to drive on any road that already has a track worn nearly down to the pavement like in those pictures. Just stick to the track and drive slow, and always remember the sheet of ice that lies just underneath.

IMO anti-lock brakes are more useful in MI than ways to add more power to the driving part. It's not getting the vehicle to GO that's the problem! I've driven plenty of cars without anti-lock brakes, and the difference is tremendous.

I gave my 67 Bronco to my Sis after I hadnt driven it in a year. It was useful to me now its useful to her.
Still Id be OK with banning 4X4s as long as they banned Priusses from the diamond lanes. Those slow buttheads really get my goat, Epecially when it's a single smug dimwit in a Prius slowing me down while Im get better gas mileage and put out less carbon dioxide.

They are good for snowy roads. I do not know why city folk would need them, expecially not for city driving. I hate driving in cities. I am a bumpkin.

Fergi America']Need-wise, in my area, most if not all of the SUV and 4WD drivers just driven around town, and have as much "real use" for them as a bump on a log. House-construction people have vans and midsize pickups. The ones who put up strip malls and such may go for 4WDs, since they have more reason to actually have to drive on ungraded or rough-graded areas, but for houses they just park in the street or on firm ground and carry their stuff to the site.

When it comes to driving through the endless Michigan winter snows, I've driven through that crap in everything from a Chevette to an old Grand Marquis (and now, a fairly new one). IMO there is no need for anything special to drive on any road that already has a track worn nearly down to the pavement like in those pictures. Just stick to the track and drive slow, and always remember the sheet of ice that lies just underneath.

IMO anti-lock brakes are more useful in MI than ways to add more power to the driving part. It's not getting the vehicle to GO that's the problem! I've driven plenty of cars without anti-lock brakes, and the difference is tremendous.

I agree completely that people in town don't need 4x4's, but people in the country do, especially when you get up past Clare or Cadillac. I went to college up in the Soo last year, and lived about 10 miles outside of town. I think the plow trucks may have heard of my road, but they'd certainly never seen it. If I hadn't had a Jeep when I was up there I would have been in a world of hurt. It may not have been absolutely necessary, but it was so much easier I felt it was worth the extra cost in gas.

I grew up in an extremely rural area and drove a Chevette (great little cars) during high school. There were a number of times when I was driving home, going about 2-5mph and still ended up in the ditch because the entire road was black ice. With my Jeep, when I went into the ditch up north (damned UP, there were no trees or anything between my house and Lake Superior, so my road was a huge sheet of ice) I was able to self extract. With my Chevette I had to wait for someone with a big truck, or call a friend with a big truck.

However, since I've moved into town (the huge metropolis that is Mount Pleasant) I traded my Jeep for a Miata. The Jeep was absolutely useless in town.