NationStates Jolt Archive

I was reading some article on bullying the other day and basically i was saying that when bullying is noticed it should be reported to the authorities where they should make an investigation and so on. This seems so needless and long and while all this bullsh*ts going on the child is still getting bullyed. It also implies that the child should not defend him/her self but go and tell a teacher right away. Thats quite a hard thing to do as alot of teachers aren't all that understanding from what I remember and even when they do tell the teacher they cant do anything about it right away. Another thing that bothered me was all the excuses made up for bullys like they get abused at home, there starved of attention, theremum died blah blah. How about some kids are just assholes. This seems to be the general way with bullying in Britain and I think it needs to be improved.

I think the term bullying is used so loosely that it doesn't mean much any more. I was bullyed at school according to the new system but I never really saw it as bullying, I saw it as a bunch of guys who had a problem with me. I saw it as a conflict and I never saw myself as a victim. Thats the problem, people seeing themselves as victims. I think kids should be taught to stick up for themselves, at least by there parents if not by teachers. and it should in minor cases be dealt wiht by the teacher and not by a governing body whatever at the school. Obviously in extreme cases this system may work better and should be put into place but most of the time its just needless and time wasting.

What do you think?

Bullies should be deported to North Korea.

What do you think?
Ever hear of Columbine?

That's why.

I agree, kids should be taught to stick up for themselves. In my experiance a few good punches can shut em up. As for the excuses the bully makes up is alot of bull, hell I was abused as a kid and I wasn't a bully.

columbine?

columbine?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbine_High_School_massacre

Columbine was a big school shooting a few years back, in Colorado I think. US.

I knew one kid in middle school who was just a total asshole to people... I, along with many others, couldn't stand him, though he was popular in some circles. But people who knew him before 6th grade (when his dad died) said he was the nicest kid ever back then... could be puberty, but that's not all.

Bullying as most people think of it does not exist, at least not at the schools I went to. There is picking on people, but that doesn't get physical. That's just emotional bullying.

Yes, people should be taught to stand up for themselves. In some cases they can't, either because of the persistence or numbers of the bullies, (or because they're quadruplegic!), but "Telling an adult" never really works. Adults seem to think that they can change what kids think and do and say, just by telling them to. In reality, a conflict between kids is really a lot like a conflict between adults. It won't just stop as soon as someone tells you to. Also, people need to learn some problem solving skills for themselves (possibly the hard way. That is the fastest way, after all) instead of being utterly dependent on adults for resolving every conflict.

Thats a sad and extreme story but I don't see how its relevant. In fact this is the point I'm trying to make. If they could eal with this better it wouldn't have happened

I'm really quite split on the subject.

Due to my own personal experiences, plus what I've seen around me, I take a rather harsh view on it and just want kids who do that expelled. In an adult world, treating another person like that wouldn't be tolerated, and it shouldn't as a child. The only real reason I go so far as to say being expelled is because that stop the child being bullied from being bullied again.

But...
The child could continue being bullied out of school.
Because of an extreme punishment, teachers will be less likely to do anything about the bullying.
It can totally ruin the bullies chance at a decent education, and my normal, rational self believes in second chances.

I do believe it should be taken much more seriously, but I guess it basically comes down to an unsolveable problem (the main root of it probably lies with the parents' and homelife-though this could be helped by psychological attention being paid to the bullies). And, however much I hate to say it, it can be an experience that you can gain strength from and can be just a part of life which helps you grow. Of course, that doesn't mean to dismiss how awful bullying can be, and anything that can be done to prevent it or help the problem or fairly punish and deter bullying should be done.

EDIT: Oh, and I full support self-defence classes for many reasons. Not just in physical defence (mainly because it's simply a fact that there will always be those who are physically stronger), but knowing what to do in various situations.

I'm really quite split on the subject.

Due to my own personal experiences, plus what I've seen around me, I take a rather harsh view on it and just want kids who do that expelled. In an adult world, treating another person like that wouldn't be tolerated, and it shouldn't as a child. The only real reason I go so far as to say being expelled is because that stop the child being bullied from being bullied again.

But...
The child could continue being bullied out of school.
Because of an extreme punishment, teachers will be less likely to do anything about the bullying.
It can totally ruin the bullies chance at a decent education, and my normal, rational self believes in second chances.

I do believe it should be taken much more seriously, but I guess it basically comes down to an unsolveable problem (the main root of it probably lies with the parents' and homelife-though this could be helped by psychological attention being paid to the bullies). And, however much I hate to say it, it can be an experience that you can gain strength from and can be just a part of life which helps you grow. Of course, that doesn't mean to dismiss how awful bullying can be, and anything that can be done to prevent it or help the problem or fairly punish and deter bullying should be done.

EDIT: Oh, and I full support self-defence classes for many reasons. Not just in physical defence (mainly because it's simply a fact that there will always be those who are physically stronger), but knowing what to do in various situations.
Thats why my solution works. Ya see Glitz, the bullied stops getting bullied, and the Bully gets a second chance, in North Korea. Of course there is the issue of you being serious, but I am pretty sure we can ignore that.:)

The new system also seems to include some humor too. Which I find stupid.

The teachers should bully the bullies, now thats poetic justice:)

I dont think there should be a system for bullying. Every case is different. What Glitzy was saying about ruining the bullies education. in some cases it deserves to be ruined basically. But if someone was just doing a bit of light teasing and the "victim" took advantage and got him expelled then its totally different I think every situation should be looked on differently, not just as a straight forward bully-victim situation and teachers them selves should have trained on how to nip it on the bud before it gets serious which i dont think they do at all. Self defence classes are a good idea but its not just the physical side. Kids should learnt to react better stick up for themselves and not appear like they can be bullied which alot of the time will stop the from being. Some people it never happens to, not just because there extremely hard but because they have the more not getting wound up, laughing things off, but still assertive attitude.

I set my bully on fire, it worked but I wouldn't reccomend it

all i can say is i was bullied by a teacher at school, when i was 6 or 7 and had no hope of defending myself or even really knowing what was going on. reporting to teachers isn't always possible or the best thing to do, i agree (with the OP)


i also agree with glitz (as i do with on many things :p) that more psychological attention should be paid to the bully themselves in order to find and help deal with the route cause of their aggression.
its the old rehabilitation vs punishment scenario (a la prison): you can ether punish by expelling the bully, putting it on their permament record and potentially ruining their chances of getting a decent education while also not actually doing anything at all to stop them bullying again. or you can deal with their problem with psychotherapy, care and attention inside and outside of school, and hopefully (of course it can't work in all cases) get the best of all worlds :)

I had a teacher who apparentally once told a girl in her class to punch the guy who kept picking on her in the stomach...

Granted, this was before I came to the school, and I only ever heard the story once from the teacher, so I don't know whether or not it was true...

But still, a good theory, no? Unless of course you happen to be being picked on by King Kong, in which case you probably couldn't reach his gut anyways, but still...

Wah-wah. Boohoo. Suck it up and get over it. Those of us who grew up before bullying became a topic du jour got past it just fine.

Wah-wah. Boohoo. Suck it up and get over it. Those of us who grew up before bullying became a topic du jour got past it just fine.
Totally agreed.

Yeah I was bullied by a teacher as well primary 1. I think schools have got more tolerant even in the last 15 years. I used to retaliate by turning everything upside down and sitting backwards and pretending it was normal. When she asked me to turn my book round I'd turn it 360 degrees. Was cool coz i learnt how to wind people up at an early age. Character building eh!! ;)

Wah-wah. Boohoo. Suck it up and get over it. Those of us who grew up before got past it just fine.

Do you represent every single person who grew up "bullying became a topic du jour"?

Do you represent every single person who grew up "bullying became a topic du jour"?

No, just those who aren't whiners.

ahh, those who are teased, who are being called names by just a few assholes-that doesn't really need sorting out by the teacher much. sometimes i think kids can be too sensitive and should be taught that those assholes shouldn't be even given the time of day. what's most damaging is when a child is being isolated by 'friends', where kids exclude and the person at the brunt end of this ends up sitting by herself and not talking to anyone. that kind of stuff needs to be dealt with, but the way things are so loud about now can embrass a child

ahh, those who are teased, who are being called names by just a few assholes-that doesn't really need sorting out by the teacher much. sometimes i think kids can be too sensitive and should be taught that those assholes shouldn't be even given the time of day. what's most damaging is when a child is being isolated by 'friends', where kids exclude and the person at the brunt end of this ends up sitting by herself and not talking to anyone. that kind of stuff needs to be dealt with, but the way things are so loud about now can embrass a child

Well, I can't see how that could be helped. What are you going to do, make the other kids play with him/her? Odds are that wouldn't help the problem.

Most kids pack heat nowadays. A good ol' shootout at high noon should solve the problem alright.

When i was about 7 years old my family moved to a new neighborhood and I was bullied by just about all the kids in the neighborhood. They use to all gang up on me. Well I was scared all the time but I learned to get tough. I fought back and had the attitude that if they were going to get me I was going to at least get one of them too. I would even go on the offensive and try to catch one of them in an ambush and beat them with a stick or something. Parents got involved when I knocked a kid out with a stone throw to the forehead. That pretty much ended things.

I think that standing up to the bullies was an important part of my development. If I have a kid who comes crying to me about being bullied he will really have something to cry about if he doesn't fight back.

People cant be sissies or else they turn into Democrats (in the USA).

Well, I can't see how that could be helped. What are you going to do, make the other kids play with him/her? Odds are that wouldn't help the problem.

i don't mean that. ah, i don't know. but i think it would be great if something could be done-(not just with the problem directly)

Guns need to be made illegal, they only cause bullying and anti-Semitism, and if you look at the most free-market society on the planet (as stated by the BBC), Somalia, you can see obviously the problems with laissez-faire and why the government needs be central in all aspects of the economy.

Otherwise the rich will take over and we will all be poor.

Guns must be banned, they violate the very premises of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

Guns need to be made illegal, they only cause bullying and anti-Semitism, and if you look at the most free-market society on the planet (as stated by the BBC), Somalia, you can see obviously the problems with laissez-faire and why the government needs be central in all aspects of the economy.

Otherwise the rich will take over and we will all be poor.

Guns must be banned, they violate the very premises of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

That isn't really the type of bullying we're talking about

Guns need to be made illegal, they only cause bullying and anti-Semitism, and if you look at the most free-market society on the planet (as stated by the BBC), Somalia, you can see obviously the problems with laissez-faire and why the government needs be central in all aspects of the economy.

Otherwise the rich will take over and we will all be poor.

Guns must be banned, they violate the very premises of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

Sorry but you are such a whacko. How do my guns make anybody poor? How do my guns violate your human rights?

That isn't really the type of bullying we're talking about

Bullying is what the USA does to other nations, so I'm not suprised their children bully other children. But if you look at Canada and the UK, there is no violence due to our advanced postchristian civilizations.

Bullying is what the USA does to other nations, so I'm not suprised their children bully other children. But if you look at Canada and the UK, there is no violence due to our advanced postchristian civilizations.

Yes, yes, so superior to the evil US... :rolleyes:

Sorry but you are such a whacko. How do my guns make anybody poor? How do my guns violate your human rights?

Remember how the NRA, which appears to be anti-Semitic, tried to say that guns don't kill people but people kill people. They don't mention that Noam Chomsky utilimately defeated their argument by saying people with guns kill people. The only person capable of deciding whether someone lives is their mother, not a man, and certainly not a racist with a gun.

That's why it violates my rights.

What do you think?

I think it's high time people started treating it as a real problem rather than giving the schoolground a "survival of the fittest" mentality.

I agree, kids should be taught to stick up for themselves. In my experiance a few good punches can shut em up. As for the excuses the bully makes up is alot of bull, hell I was abused as a kid and I wasn't a bully.

A few good punches can also result in you being introduced to their friend with a bike chain.

Just sayin'.

Yes, yes, so superior to the evil US... :rolleyes:

Cluichstan, at least you agree.

What country are you from the European Union?

How does America bully other nations? I know we used to back in the Cold War and we have a lot to be sorry for but then we did win the Cold War after all so maybe some of that was justifiable. Besides, we did most of our bullying then only in "our backyard" i.e. South America and Central America.

Don't even pretend that we are bullying Iraqis or Afghans! Saddam and the Taliban were up there in the stratosphere of violations of UN resolutions for Human Rights. Serious Human Rights abusers dont have the right to inhale air let alone run governments.

Cluichstan, at least you agree.

What country are you from the European Union?

I don't agree. That what the eyeroll was for, Clueless Wonder. :rolleyes:

Bullies should be deported to North Korea.
As food aid?

Bullying is what the USA does to other nations, so I'm not suprised their children bully other children. But if you look at Canada and the UK, there is no violence due to our advanced postchristian civilizations.

Right...

I think you'll find there is alot of violence in Britain, not quiete to America's standards but its still there.

Don't even pretend that we are bullying Iraqis or Afghans! Saddam and the Taliban were up there in the stratosphere of violations of UN resolutions for Human Rights. Serious Human Rights abusers dont have the right to inhale air let alone run governments.

Unless of course, serious human rights abusers act in accordance with US interests, in which case it's all hunkey-dory.

I don't agree. That what the eyeroll was for, Clueless Wonder. :rolleyes:

Are you a Usian? If so, are you from the enlightened part (Northeast/California)?

Remember how the NRA, which appears to be anti-Semitic, tried to say that guns don't kill people but people kill people. They don't mention that Noam Chomsky utilimately defeated their argument by saying people with guns kill people. The only person capable of deciding whether someone lives is their mother, not a man, and certainly not a racist with a gun.

That's why it violates my rights.
It doesn't take a gun to kill people. The NRA isn't anti-Semitic. You're just making wild accusations with nothing to back them up. Cite some sources or stfu.

Right...

I think you'll find there is alot of violence in Britain, not quiete to America's standards but its still there.

But any violence is due to past Tory policies and Margaret Thatcher's insistence that there is no such thing as society. If we had always kept the ideals of Fabianism in our hearts, we would be so advanced today.

It doesn't take a gun to kill people. The NRA isn't anti-Semitic. You're just making wild accusations with nothing to back them up. Cite some sources or stfu.

If you read about their love of guns, it makes me think of what Adolph Hitler did when we rose to power, and also from Jennifer Government, the Forum's sponser, which basically said that you needed to hire the NRA to provide police protection. What we need is protection for corporate greed!

Remember how the NRA, which appears to be anti-Semitic, tried to say that guns don't kill people but people kill people. They don't mention that Noam Chomsky utilimately defeated their argument by saying people with guns kill people. The only person capable of deciding whether someone lives is their mother, not a man, and certainly not a racist with a gun.

That's why it violates my rights.

Ok how is the NRA anti-semetic? I am a Jew and a member of the NRA. I can assure you that the Guardian (the NRA magazine) never mentioned anything about hating jews. On the other hand, if I find out that the NRA is anti semetic I will no longer be a member.

An armed citizenry is a great final check against tyranny. Furthermore, it is good training for young people that may someday enter the service. Firearms training also teaches young people to develop a safety ethic that they can take with them and use throughout their lives. Many bad guys and rapid animals have been killed by guns. Gun collecting and target shooting are enjoyable pastimes.

Ok how is the NRA anti-semetic? I am a Jew and a member of the NRA. I can assure you that the Guardian (the NRA magazine) never mentioned anything about hating jews. On the other hand, if I find out that the NRA is anti semetic I will no longer be a member.

An armed citizenry is a great final check against tyranny. Furthermore, it is good training for young people that may someday enter the service. Firearms training also teaches young people to develop a safety ethic that they can take with them and use throughout their lives. Many bad guys and rapid animals have been killed by guns. Gun collecting and target shooting are enjoyable pastimes.

Why are you supporting the NRA?

Remember, the force is love is greater than the love of force.

If you read about their love of guns, it makes me think of what Adolph Hitler did when we rose to power, and also from Jennifer Government, the Forum's sponser, which basically said that you needed to hire the NRA to provide police protection. What we need is protection for corporate greed!

Is this getting completely nonsensical or is it just me?

Are you trying to say the NRA is for DISARMING elements of society?
Are you trying to use a fiction book in your arguement?

Unless of course, serious human rights abusers act in accordance with US interests, in which case it's all hunkey-dory.

I think we saw more of that in the Cold War than we do now. However, I am not so naive to think that this does not still go on. Believe me, if I had my way America would blockade every human rights abusing baddie out there from China to Syria.

If you read about their love of guns, it makes me think of what Adolph Hitler did when we rose to power, and also from Jennifer Government, the Forum's sponser, which basically said that you needed to hire the NRA to provide police protection. What we need is protection for corporate greed!
Hitler was against private ownership of guns IIRC. So, you're more like Hitler than the NRA is. Congratulations Mein Fuhrer.

Is this getting completely nonsensical or is it just me?

Are you trying to say the NRA is for DISARMING elements of society?
Are you trying to use a fiction book in your arguement?

I'm just concerned that when the government will inevitably have to seize the property of the rich in order for the poor to finally have justice, that the rich might use their guns to kill the government worker.

This is part of the reason we cannot allow guns, except for the police.

Europe, the UK, Canada, and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights all agree with me.

lol

people go kind of far. yes bullying happens, and yes it can be severe. but most cases are not. people are to concerned with sheilding children from life. next we will be rounding ever corner and padding every wall.

Why are you supporting the NRA?

Remember, the force is love is greater than the love of force.
You make me sick. What would you do if someone was raping the woman you love while his buddy held a knife to your throat as he waited his turn? Tell the rapists how much you love them?

I think it's high time people started treating it as a real problem rather than giving the schoolground a "survival of the fittest" mentality.
Agreed!!

I think Posi's suggestion to deport bullies to Korea is a fine idea, too--at least until there are space shuttles to the sun, anyway.

I think we saw more of that in the Cold War than we do now. However, I am not so naive to think that this does not still go on. Believe me, if I had my way America would blockade every human rights abusing baddie out there from China to Syria.

Fair enough.

I'm just concerned that when the government will inevitably have to seize the property of the rich in order for the poor to finally have justice, that the rich might use their guns to kill the government worker.

This is part of the reason we cannot allow guns, except for the police.

Europe, the UK, Canada, and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights all agree with me.

So the Governments can do the killing instead? The 1% of "rich" will be able to outgun the rest of society?

Where do you get this nonsense from?

You make me sick. What would you do if someone was raping the woman you love while his buddy held a knife to your throat as he waited his turn? Tell the rapists how much you love them?

No, no. You're supposed to rely on the police to protect you at all times. Oh, wait, they don't have that responsibility.

Are you a Usian? If so, are you from the enlightened part (Northeast/California)?

I'm originally from New Jersey but live in Massachusetts now. Neither is "enlightened."

You make me sick. What would you do if someone was raping the woman you love while his buddy held a knife to your throat as he waited his turn? Tell the rapists how much you love them?
* raises hand *

I know! I know! I would challenge them to a duel!

"Pistols at dawn" I would say, and then we would meet at the field of honour.

* raises hand *

I know! I know! I would challenge them to a duel!

"Pistols at dawn" I would say, and then we would meet at the field of honour.

Axes at ten paces? :)

I'm just concerned that when the government will inevitably have to seize the property of the rich in order for the poor to finally have justice, that the rich might use their guns to kill the government worker.

This is part of the reason we cannot allow guns, except for the police.

Europe, the UK, Canada, and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights all agree with me.

Ummmm are you a communist or something? What the heck are you talking about? Inevitable seizure of private property? You think the rich owe the poor anything? Poor people pretty much get where they are because of the poor life decisions they make and same with rich people.

Axes at ten paces? :)
Yeah, and no helmets!

Conscience and truth is either very, very young, and assumes we can all understand him/her, just because the his/her postings makes sense to him/her (a common enough problem with youthful posters )...

...or Conscience and Truth is older, and still has no capability for stringing together a decent argument on the first try. Ever, that I have seen.

Either way, give him/her time.

Either the means and mode of argument will eventually improve, or Conscience and truth will realize that his/her ideas are inchoate at best (at least in terms of how they are expressed) and give up.

Note that, as many people get angry at C&T's postings, many more simply have no idea what the hell he/she is getting at.

Eventually, that will percolate through to C&T as well.

Courage.

You make me sick. What would you do if someone was raping the woman you love while his buddy held a knife to your throat as he waited his turn? Tell the rapists how much you love them?

Drunko,

Use of the "Villians raping the woman you love" argument is more inflammatory than anything else. Not to mention a ridiculously old ploy to throw off any real argumentation. Any dissent by the other poster makes them sound as if they're all for rape.

Really...are you sure this will convince anyone to take pause?

Especially someone who thinks that "the power of love" will overcome everything? I mean, you can't fight someone who argues in bumper-sticker slogans with more of the same. Not really successfully, anyhow.

Ummmm are you a communist or something? What the heck are you talking about? Inevitable seizure of private property? You think the rich owe the poor anything? Poor people pretty much get where they are because of the poor life decisions they make and same with rich people.
oh yes, because the world is such a meritocracy :rolleyes:

equality of opportunity my ass.



how on earth has a thread about bullying gotten this far off-topic though :confused:

Drunko,

Use of the "Villians raping the woman you love" argument is more inflammatory than anything else. Not to mention a ridiculously old ploy to throw off any real argumentation. Any dissent by the other poster makes them sound as if they're all for rape.

Really...are you sure this will convince anyone to take pause?

Especially someone who thinks that "the power of love" will overcome everything? I mean, you can't fight someone who argues in bumper-sticker slogans with more of the same. Not really successfully, anyhow.
Meh, I'm not a great debater.

You think the rich owe the poor anything? Poor people pretty much get where they are because of the poor life decisions they make and same with rich people.


First, way to generalize. How many ghettoes have you ever worked in?

Secondly, the richest in America make it the same goddamned way they made it in Europe. They inherit it.

They get even more rich throughout their lives, because their "great life decisions" are aided by any number of paid financial advisors.

And by the way, if you believe at all in such crazy stuff as the Social Contract, yes, we all "owe" each other something. Not to write off the other guy as non-existent or unimportant simply because of his social or economic class, for instance.

But yeah, C&T thinks they are a Communist. C&T thinks a lot of things, most of which are poorly expressed.

EDIT: WAIT A GODDAMNED MINUTE! Wasn't this thread about schoolyard bullying?! Who threadjacked?

What I know of bullying is this. In my HS, a group would surround you and send in their smallest person. If you started winning, you'ld get hit from behind. If you went and told the teachers, you'ld get jumped after school. The teachers did nothing.

This happened to me daily. It stopped when I happened to get into a conversation w/ the president of the school board (I didn't know who she was at the time). She asked where I got the bruises on my face from and I told her. The next day, all the teachers were in the hallways during class break and the next group that jumped me got suspended.

You who say "waa waa" obviously have matured so much. It's not about "sheltering kids from life", it's about keeping it at levels where the kids are not emotionally or physically scarred for life.

Meh, I'm not a great debater.

I thought you were a Master debater.

EDIT: WAIT A GODDAMNED MINUTE! Wasn't this thread about schoolyard bullying?! Who threadjacked?

C&T

I thought you were a Master debater.

No, that would be a masturbator. We all are. :p

how on earth has a thread about bullying gotten this far off-topic though :confused:
All NS threads eventually become a discussion of god-no god, guns-no guns, gays-no gays, left-right; chat/spam; or locked.

No, that would be a masturbator. We all are. :p


not so much as i used to be.......

not so much as i used to be.......

Haven't found the right women online then. ;)

You who say "waa waa" obviously have matured so much. It's not about "sheltering kids from life", it's about keeping it at levels where the kids are not emotionally or physically scarred for life.


Yes.

I know of incidents labeled "bullying" where the "bully" in question beat the other guy so badly that he was able to steal his clothes and shoes from off of the victim's unconscious form. And walk home with them.

Seventh graders.

That's just one incident. When kids are put into a kill-or-be killed mentality, guess what they are not doing. Let's see...

They are NOT learning how to socialize in either productive or interesting fashions...

They are NOT learning anything useful of getting any schoolwork done...

They are NOT being given the necessary impression that the school they are in is the ONE GODDAMNED PLACE where they are safe enough to actually express what questions about life and society they may have, or any other questions for that matter.

Who do you think city kids who are "bullied" run to, when parents and school officials sit around?

That's right. Their new families, the streetgangs.

I thought you were a Master debater.
No, but from spending many a lonely day on fishing boats off the coast of Point Pleasant I became a master baiter.

Ever hear of Columbine?

That's why.

Too bad Harris and Klebold weren't bullied.

That reminds me, didn't Rockstar release a game where you played a bully in some little pompous private school?

That reminds me, didn't Rockstar release a game where you played a bully in some little pompous private school?

Wouldn't suprise me, rockstar is fucked up

It hasn't been released yet

It hasn't been released yet
You're kidding? man, that sucks, I wanted to go smack up some St. George's Catholic School for Rich Little Bitches students.

They did however release a ping pong game -_-

You're kidding? man, that sucks, I wanted to go smack up some St. George's Catholic School for Rich Little Bitches students.

They did however release a ping pong game -_-

Heh,

The Harris and Klebold example is poor.

One was a sociopath (proven by FBI profiling done postumously; make of that what you will, but he left a great deal of written evidence, due to his apparent malignant narcissism).

The other was apparently suffering from pretty severe depression that was characterized by extreme periods of hostility towards others. This condition made him an easy pawn for the sociopath to use as a right-hand man.

The evidence points to Klebold wanting to die to some degree, and Harris having nothing but contempt for other humans, viewing the whole exercise as a great way to experiment on unworthy insects that called themselves "human". Whether or not he really feared death, or even acknowledged to himself the consequences of dying, remains a mystery.

Neither was anywhere near the most bullied individual in that school. Many had it far, far worse.

These guys were just crazy. It sucks, but it's true.

The Harris and Klebold example is poor.

One was a sociopath (proven by FBI profiling done postumously; make of that what you will, but he left a great deal of written evidence, due to his apparent malignant narcissism).

The other was apparently suffering from pretty severe depression that was characterized by extreme periods of hostility towards others. This condition made him an easy pawn for the sociopath to use as a right-hand man.

The evidence points to Klebold wanting to die to some degree, and Harris having nothing but contempt for other humans, viewing the whole exercise as a great way to experiment on unworthy insects that called themselves "human". Whether or not he really feared death, or even acknowledged to himself the consequences of dying, remains a mystery.

Neither was anywhere near the most bullied individual in that school. Many had it far, far worse.

These guys were just crazy. It sucks, but it's true.

Harris was, he was a psychopath. I'm not sure I would call Klebold "crazy", most people believe he wouldn't have done it without Harris. Go to google and type in 'The depressive and the psychopathic, at least we know why they did it'

Harris was, he was a psychopath. I'm not sure I would call Klebold "crazy", most people believe he wouldn't have done it without Harris. Go to google and type in 'The depressive and the psychopathic, at least we know why they did it'

They did it cuz they were assholes. Plain and simple.

You're kidding? man, that sucks, I wanted to go smack up some St. George's Catholic School for Rich Little Bitches students.

They did however release a ping pong game -_-

They set in a reform school, its got to have some difficulty I guess.

They did it cuz they were assholes. Plain and simple.

or, they had mental disorders that caused them to do it.

or, they had mental disorders that caused them to do it.

They chose to do it.

They chose to do it.

And they wanted to because they were disturbed. Last time I checked, assholitis has not caused every other assholes to kill people.

They set in a reform school, its got to have some difficulty I guess.
I saw the pictures of a brawl on the lunchroom table and wanted to play it. I guess you try to whip some ass while not getting punished or something.

I saw the pictures of a brawl on the lunchroom table and wanted to play it. I guess you try to whip some ass while not getting punished or something.

What's the game called?

What's the game called?
I think it's "Bully." Google Rockstar and bully game.

I was reading some article on bullying the other day and basically i was saying that when bullying is noticed it should be reported to the authorities where they should make an investigation and so on. This seems so needless and long and while all this bullsh*ts going on the child is still getting bullyed. It also implies that the child should not defend him/her self but go and tell a teacher right away. Thats quite a hard thing to do as alot of teachers aren't all that understanding from what I remember and even when they do tell the teacher they cant do anything about it right away. Another thing that bothered me was all the excuses made up for bullys like they get abused at home, there starved of attention, theremum died blah blah. How about some kids are just assholes. This seems to be the general way with bullying in Britain and I think it needs to be improved.

I think the term bullying is used so loosely that it doesn't mean much any more. I was bullyed at school according to the new system but I never really saw it as bullying, I saw it as a bunch of guys who had a problem with me. I saw it as a conflict and I never saw myself as a victim. Thats the problem, people seeing themselves as victims. I think kids should be taught to stick up for themselves, at least by there parents if not by teachers. and it should in minor cases be dealt wiht by the teacher and not by a governing body whatever at the school. Obviously in extreme cases this system may work better and should be put into place but most of the time its just needless and time wasting.

What do you think?
I think it was great fun to get back at those who bullied me in high school. :D

I think it was great fun to get back at those who bullied me in high school. :D

Most of the ones who gave me hell are either dead, in jail, or living miserable lives.

Schadenfreude

I think it was great fun to get back at those who bullied me in high school. :D
I wish I could have revenge on my elementary school bullies...:cool:

And they wanted to because they were disturbed. Last time I checked, assholitis has not caused every other assholes to kill people.

Howzabout a little of both?

they were nuts. But at least one of them had some residual empathy for humans.

And not once did the parents intervene in a way that slowed down or contained this. And they could have. If they'd decided to.

I suspect that in the case of (Harris?) the psychopath (thx for correction), the result of successfully "containing" the kid would that he would have been sent to a "full institution" situation, i.e., the crazy house or Youth Authority.

It wouldn't have stopped him from being a predator, but it might have forestalled this.

I also suspect Harris' parents didn't want to intervene too much for fear of "what the neighbors might say" if they were revealed to have a crazy kid.

Weaklings.

Most of the ones who gave me hell are either dead, in jail, or living miserable lives.
Schadenfreude


Some of the ones who fucked with me aren't. One's doing great.

He's also (apparently) become a much nicer, better person.

This guy, a dude I prayed would die of AIDS every night, no longer really exists.

It hurts. Who can I have revenge on now???

When I was young and scared of those who bullied me, I took out my hate on my friends and my little brother. I became an "amateur bully".

Later on, I found out that my friends had WAY more problems than I did. They went through shit that made my problems seem non-existent.

they never told me, because they realized that I couldn't even handle my own problems, let alone theirs.

I was a shit. And they were kind friends for letting me be, and not abandoning me.

But I would have been less of a shit, if those older kids had done me the same favor in the first place.

Fuck cliques. Fuck bullies, and fuck anyone who thinks bullying is natural, or "boys playing", or any of that garbage.

Swinging from the trees and eating rats is "natural". FUCK "NATURAL".

EDIT: Whoopsie. I tend to personalize threads like this. Sorry.

Anybody else think that we should punish kids who take abuse from bullies without fighting back?

I was reading some article on bullying the other day and basically i was saying that when bullying is noticed it should be reported to the authorities where they should make an investigation and so on. This seems so needless and long and while all this bullsh*ts going on the child is still getting bullyed. It also implies that the child should not defend him/her self but go and tell a teacher right away. Thats quite a hard thing to do as alot of teachers aren't all that understanding from what I remember and even when they do tell the teacher they cant do anything about it right away. Another thing that bothered me was all the excuses made up for bullys like they get abused at home, there starved of attention, theremum died blah blah. How about some kids are just assholes. This seems to be the general way with bullying in Britain and I think it needs to be improved.

I think the term bullying is used so loosely that it doesn't mean much any more. I was bullyed at school according to the new system but I never really saw it as bullying, I saw it as a bunch of guys who had a problem with me. I saw it as a conflict and I never saw myself as a victim. Thats the problem, people seeing themselves as victims. I think kids should be taught to stick up for themselves, at least by there parents if not by teachers. and it should in minor cases be dealt wiht by the teacher and not by a governing body whatever at the school. Obviously in extreme cases this system may work better and should be put into place but most of the time its just needless and time wasting.

What do you think?

So you're saying nothing should be done by parents, teachers and authorities, and that kids should settle it with their fists, feet or whatever comes to hand?

Right. Because bullies obviously pick on people who can defend themselves.

If I have a kid who comes crying to me about being bullied he will really have something to cry about if he doesn't fight back.

So you intend to become an abusive parent.

Guns need to be made illegal, they only cause bullying and anti-Semitism, and if you look at the most free-market society on the planet (as stated by the BBC), Somalia, you can see obviously the problems with laissez-faire and why the government needs be central in all aspects of the economy.

Otherwise the rich will take over and we will all be poor.

Guns must be banned, they violate the very premises of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

Connection between guns, bullying, anti-Semitism and free-market society, please?

So you're saying nothing should be done by parents, teachers and authorities, and that kids should settle it with their fists, feet or whatever comes to hand?

Right. Because bullies obviously pick on people who can defend themselves.

Almost anybody can stand up for themselves. This is an important part of growing up (as I mentioned in my earlier post). There is a role for parents, teachers, etc. to step in once things get out of hand or if the bully does not back down after being stood up to.

In schools, the gym teachers should be able to help keep things safe by providing the boxing gloves and the mat to fight it out on. Then the gym teacher should make them shake hands and if anything happens after that expell the bully and lock him up in a juvenile detention center.

Bullying is what the USA does to other nations, so I'm not suprised their children bully other children. But if you look at Canada and the UK, there is no violence due to our advanced postchristian civilizations.


Two words: football hooligans. And they don't exist in the US.

Anybody else think that we should punish kids who take abuse from bullies without fighting back?

If theres a very large group of much older stronger guys, you might aswell tell you kid go jump in front of a moving car or you'll punish him.

Remember how the NRA, which appears to be anti-Semitic, tried to say that guns don't kill people but people kill people. They don't mention that Noam Chomsky utilimately defeated their argument by saying people with guns kill people. The only person capable of deciding whether someone lives is their mother, not a man, and certainly not a racist with a gun.

That's why it violates my rights.


All gun owners= racists?

And people without guns use knives, sledgehammers, cars, icepicks, garrottes.... so your point is?

Anybody else think that we should punish kids who take abuse from bullies without fighting back?

Not punish, but we should tell them to stick up for themselves and not punish them when they do

So you intend to become an abusive parent.

No. I intend to become a good parent. You cannot be a good parent if you neglect the discipline. Abuse is doing injury instead of pain. Neglect is not inflicting pain. Both are just as bad because they both create criminals. Reasonable force creates nice normal happy kids who go on to become normal healthy adults.

But any violence is due to past Tory policies and Margaret Thatcher's insistence that there is no such thing as society. If we had always kept the ideals of Fabianism in our hearts, we would be so advanced today.


Backpedaling on your assertion that there is no violence in the UK?

Here's another word: chavs.

I hate to tell you, Conscience and Truth, but I know a Jewish NRA instructor.

I'm just concerned that when the government will inevitably have to seize the property of the rich in order for the poor to finally have justice, that the rich might use their guns to kill the government worker.

This is part of the reason we cannot allow guns, except for the police.

Europe, the UK, Canada, and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights all agree with me.

"If guns are illegal, criminals will be the only ones who have guns."

And wtf about the government seizing property? If you're in the US, you'll know one of the reasons it separated from Britain was to secure right to property.

It's not going to be the rich killing the government worker, it's going to be everyone seeing the possibility of their own hard-earned stuff being taken by the government too. Equality through equal poverty.

Conscience and Truth posted some pretty nutty stuff. Disregard those comments unless he can express them a little better.

Almost anybody can stand up for themselves. This is an important part of growing up (as I mentioned in my earlier post). There is a role for parents, teachers, etc. to step in once things get out of hand or if the bully does not back down after being stood up to.

In schools, the gym teachers should be able to help keep things safe by providing the boxing gloves and the mat to fight it out on. Then the gym teacher should make them shake hands and if anything happens after that expell the bully and lock him up in a juvenile detention center.

This is not what school is for.

You maintain that part of "growing up" is learning to fight, which you gloss over as "standing up for oneself".

Funny thing. I know people who have never fought once, who show far more grown-up traits than those who have their early lives turned into "rule of the knife".

Your further assumption that we should make a system of punishment against those who don't "stand up for themselves" is beyond the pale.

You have clearly accepted all of the lessons the bullies taught. That, ultimately, those too weak to effectively defend, or who fear further exposure to pain or further humiliation of defeat that they've already suffered, are deserving of further castigation.

I am trying my damnedest not to hate you.

Stop attempting to legitimatize gladiatorial bouts in schools.

"If guns are illegal, criminals will be the only ones who have guns."

And wtf about the government seizing property? If you're in the US, you'll know one of the reasons it separated from Britain was to secure right to property.

It's not going to be the rich killing the government worker, it's going to be everyone seeing the possibility of their own hard-earned stuff being taken by the government too. Equality through equal poverty.

Yes, now what started this whole gun debate within this thread? If it is Columbine then let me inform you that all the weapons Harris and Klebold attained where attained illegally, and they still could have gotten them even if guns were illegal.

Conscience and Truth posted some pretty nutty stuff. Disregard those comments unless he can express them a little better.

Agreed.

So far, you are no better.

Feel free to prove me wrong in further posts. Really. I'm hoping you can.

C&T posts like a 'tard.
You come off as someone I'd call the cops on if you came near the schools I worked at.

No. I intend to become a good parent. You cannot be a good parent if you neglect the discipline. Abuse is doing injury instead of pain. Neglect is not inflicting pain. Both are just as bad because they both create criminals. Reasonable force creates nice normal happy kids who go on to become normal healthy adults.

So punishing a kid or beating them (ie giving them something to cry about) is what you said you intended to give them if they came to you because they needed your help from being bullied.

How is that not abusive?

So punishing a kid or beating them (ie giving them something to cry about) is what you said you intended to give them if they came to you because they needed your help from being bullied.

How is that not abusive?

I feel his kid will probably kill him/herself

Yes, now what started this whole gun debate within this thread? If it is Columbine then let me inform you that all the weapons Harris and Klebold attained where attained illegally, and they still could have gotten them even if guns were illegal.

I am not denying that, I just made that point for C&T who thinks that anti-Semitism, bullying, and free-market society have something to do with bullies.

I feel his kid will probably kill him/herself

That, or become a bully.

I am not denying that, I just made that point for C&T who thinks that anti-Semitism, bullying, and free-market society have something to do with bullies.

Ah, understood. How do anti-Semitism and free-market societies have to do with bullies?

I feel his kid will probably kill him/herself

I retract what I said about Freedonia.

Freedonia thinks infliction of physical pain is a part of good parenting. Freedonia is a sadist, a mock-authoritarian, and a potential criminal if not an actual one.

Freedonia doesn't deserve to have the cops called on him/her. Worse things would happen, in a just world.
Freedonia is a menace, and if Freedonia died tomorrow and I knew, I'd weep for joy.

Freedonia's kids (potential or actual) would be better off being raised by coyotes.

This is not what school is for.

You maintain that part of "growing up" is learning to fight, which you gloss over as "standing up for oneself".

Funny thing. I know people who have never fought once, who show far more grown-up traits than those who have their early lives turned into "rule of the knife".

Your further assumption that we should make a system of punishment against those who don't "stand up for themselves" is beyond the pale.

You have clearly accepted all of the lessons the bullies taught. That, ultimately, those too weak to effectively defend, or who fear further exposure to pain or further humiliation of defeat that they've already suffered, are deserving of further castigation.

I am trying my damnedest not to hate you.

Stop attempting to legitimatize gladiatorial bouts in schools.


If you disagree fine. Please understand me though. We cannot afford to have children who are too afraid of mere physical pain to stand up for themselves. How can they ever be proud and have a sense of self worth unless they are able to overcome their fear and stand up to the tyrant. What kind of citizens will they become? I suggest that they will become subservient sheep instead of the sort of citizen that opposes tyranny. We do not need more Nevil Chamberlains in this world.

Also, I am not saying that there is no role for adults here. I hope I expressed my thoughts that adults are there to make sure things do not get out of hand. I do not think that a mere fist fight or bloody nose is out of hand.

A kid should be punished if he does not stand up to the bully so he knows that it is unacceptable to let someone walk all over you with threats of violence whether you are a private person or a society.

However, I have thought about your point and I would like to change my position a bit. I think that you are right after all that a school should not punish a kid for not standing up for themselves but should not punish them for standing up for themselves. I changed my mind because I recognize that there are some pacifistic faiths out there of the turn the other cheek school of thought and we cannot have schools punishing their students for living their religious beliefs.

That being said, I would punish my child for not standing up for himself unless he had a darn good reason for not standing up for himself such as the bully is more than the typical bully but is actually a real psycho nut job or my kid believes in pacifism (*shudder*).

It does work in high school, all my class mates would support and say that they deserved it and I'd get away scot free but I'm now I'm in college and if you do any of that, they kick you out straight away.

God, it is fucking tempting though.

If you disagree fine. Please understand me though. We cannot afford to have children who are too afraid of mere physical pain to stand up for themselves. How can they ever be proud and have a sense of self worth unless they are able to overcome their fear and stand up to the tyrant. What kind of citizens will they become?

I know, having lived on Planet Earth in the 20th and 21st centuries, that one can certainly have a sense of self-worth as a child, without having to act on it by fighting.

Only when pain-obsessive, brutal assholes take over as parents does that sense of self-worth actually disappear.

Your assumption that those who don't actively engage in counter-violence to deter assailants have "no sense of self-worth" is medieval garbage.

Childhood is not a land war. Only when the bastards take over does it become one. By "bastards", I mean gangbangers, opportunistic peer-sadists, and adults like you.

A "mere fist-fight"?

Fuck you. No more attempts at reasoned response .

Hold the phone hear guys. Some of you are suggesting it is evil to spank kids. Is that what I am hearing? Why is it then that paddling and such has been going down hill lately and kids are getting worse? Isn't the idea to make kids better behaved through discipline?

Ah, understood. How do anti-Semitism and free-market societies have to do with bullies?

Beats the life out of me.

Hey, THAT'S the connection! ;)

Hold the phone hear guys. Some of you are suggesting it is evil to spank kids. Is that what I am hearing? Why is it then that paddling and such has been going down hill lately and kids are getting worse? Isn't the idea to make kids better behaved through discipline?

You know, your right, teaching kids from an early age that violence is the solution to everything makes them better behaved.

I saw a kid who was bullied and just took it and then a school employee asked him to stand up to the bully and he gave the bully a black eye and made him cry. The bully stopped bullying others and this really shy kid is not so darn introverted now so you can take all your Dr. Spock BS and continue to decide not to live in the real world.

If you think it is cool to not stand up to bullies you can go and live in one of those great rogue nations that would just love to have you as a citizen or as they see it "one of their playthings". You would have been happy had you lived under Saddam in Iraq. Some parent you will be teaching those values to your kids.

You know, your right, teaching kids from an early age that violence is the solution to everything makes them better behaved.

Ok yes you are right bullies can be reasoned with. Maybe that works in fantasyland.

I saw a kid who was bullied and just took it and then a school employee asked him to stand up to the bully and he gave the bully a black eye and made him cry. The bully stopped bullying others and this really shy kid is not so darn introverted now so you can take all your Dr. Spock BS and continue to decide not to live in the real world.

If you think it is cool to not stand up to bullies you can go and live in one of those great rogue nations that would just love to have you as a citizen or as they see it "one of their playthings". You would have been happy had you lived under Saddam in Iraq. Some parent you will be teaching those values to your kids.


Yep because "bullies" always work singly. Once again, there is a far cry between "standing up" to one and not doing anything. Shall we present the numerous cases of kids who were killed by bullies? Or the ones that were pushed so far they either killed themselves or others?

I was a bit of a bully in middle school, built the kids' characters.

Hold the phone hear guys. Some of you are suggesting it is evil to spank kids. Is that what I am hearing? Why is it then that paddling and such has been going down hill lately and kids are getting worse? Isn't the idea to make kids better behaved through discipline?


Hitting a child for asking for help is demented.

NO ONE has said spanking is bad. We are saying punishing a child who asks for help is demented.

I was a bit of a bully in middle school, built the kids' characters.

It would have built your character if you got the shit beat out of you

Ok yes you are right bullies can be reasoned with. Maybe that works in fantasyland.

I never said bullies can be reasoned with.
What you suggest is threatening you child with spanking unless he fights.
Which means it won't be his decision to stand up for himself it will be yours, so he will feel no pride, no self confidence and will gain nothing from protecting himself.

If I was your son I would attack you and say "What? You said I shouldn't let people push me around with threats of violence."

Hitting a child for asking for help is demented.

NO ONE has said spanking is bad. We are saying punishing a child who asks for help is demented.

Exactly

It would have built your character if you got the shit beat out of you



Get over it and grow up.

Get over it and grow up.

Why am I the one that needs to grow up now?

Yep because "bullies" always work singly. Once again, there is a far cry between "standing up" to one and not doing anything. Shall we present the numerous cases of kids who were killed by bullies? Or the ones that were pushed so far they either killed themselves or others?

Ok. That is why adults need a role in all of this. I have said that all along. That is where school psychologists, guidance counselors, and gym teachers come in. If things are really bad, the police should be involved. Hey, I stood up to a gang of bullies over the course of months and it made me proud to be able to say that I did that rather than getting all soft. It hurt a lot but I would rather have been in pain than lose my dignity. I cried at first but then I learned not to cry. It was a big step towards becoming a man and a good citizen. I stood up to bullies when I saw them picking on littler kids too. I am proud of that. Wouldn't you want your kid doing that? Wouldn't you want everyone to look out for one another or do you think people should be like those New Yorkers that heard a woman being murdered over the course of hours in an apartment but didnt do anything because they did not want to become involved?

Ok. That is why adults need a role in all of this. I have said that all along. That is where school psychologists, guidance counselors, and gym teachers come in. If things are really bad, the police should be involved. Hey, I stood up to a gang of bullies over the course of months and it made me proud to be able to say that I did that rather than getting all soft. It hurt a lot but I would rather have been in pain than lose my dignity. I cried at first but then I learned not to cry. It was a big step towards becoming a man and a good citizen. I stood up to bullies when I saw them picking on littler kids too. I am proud of that. Wouldn't you want your kid doing that? Wouldn't you want everyone to look out for one another or do you think people should be like those New Yorkers that heard a woman being murdered over the course of hours in an apartment but didnt do anything because they did not want to become involved?

People do good things because it feels good to them, they don't do them because someone told them to do it or else.

I never said bullies can be reasoned with.
What you suggest is threatening you child with spanking unless he fights.
Which means it won't be his decision to stand up for himself it will be yours, so he will feel no pride, no self confidence and will gain nothing from protecting himself.

Actually that is a good point. I never thought about it like that. I am not sure that you are right but after reading that point I am not sure that I am right either.

Why am I the one that needs to grow up now?


Because you typed this:

"Originally Posted by Vashutze
It would have built your character if you got the shit beat out of you"

Actually that is a good point. I never thought about it like that. I am not sure that you are right but after reading that point I am not sure that I am right either.

Its cool to know that you can make people question their views sometimes.

Ok. That is why adults need a role in all of this. I have said that all along. That is where school psychologists, guidance counselors, and gym teachers come in. If things are really bad, the police should be involved. Hey, I stood up to a gang of bullies over the course of months and it made me proud to be able to say that I did that rather than getting all soft. It hurt a lot but I would rather have been in pain than lose my dignity. I cried at first but then I learned not to cry. It was a big step towards becoming a man and a good citizen. I stood up to bullies when I saw them picking on littler kids too. I am proud of that. Wouldn't you want your kid doing that? Wouldn't you want everyone to look out for one another or do you think people should be like those New Yorkers that heard a woman being murdered over the course of hours in an apartment but didnt do anything because they did not want to become involved?

Once again you're making the false dicotomy of doing everything or nothing.

You're also trying to imply that everyone is equal.

You're also trying to imply that I want people to do "nothing".

Good for you that you stood up to the group. Can everyone do it? What about the kids that can't? Should they just be beaten continuously? I "stood up for myself" and still had to get the school involved to make it stop. It can also make kids suicidal or even homicidal.

Schools need to take measures to make sure these things don't happen in the first place, not after the fact. Teachers in the hallways, security, etc.

Because you typed this:

"Originally Posted by Vashutze
It would have built your character if you got the shit beat out of you"

Just curious, who did you make fun of and what for?

Once again you're making the false dicotomy of doing everything or nothing.

You're also trying to imply that everyone is equal.

You're also trying to imply that I want people to do "nothing".

Good for you that you stood up to the group. Can everyone do it? What about the kids that can't? Should they just be beaten continuously? I "stood up for myself" and still had to get the school involved to make it stop. It can also make kids suicidal or even homicidal.

Schools need to take measures to make sure these things don't happen in the first place, not after the fact. Teachers in the hallways, security, etc.

Hey that is what I am saying. You did the right thing. You stood up to them. I never said you had to beat them in a fistfight you just have to be willing to fight back. If it is still a problem the kid should take advantage of resources from adults. I disagree about prevention. I think that this is an important life lesson. In other words standing up to bullies is an important part of your education and development. It is more important than algebra or whatever because it is about pride and how we deal with bullies as individuals and societies. I think we learned that this is how it is done in Japanese schools but it could have been in Chinese schools.

I would much rather have kids not know their algebra than have them grow up into people who "do not want to become involved" when they see someone in need of help in dealing with a violent whacko. Kids should not grow up thinking that they need to rely on authorities. In my country (USA) we have an ideal called self reliance as well as a value that seems odd to Europeans -mistrust of big government. By standing up to someone that is bullying you or others smaller than you, you are putting our values into action.

I do not know too much about the murder and suicide thing but I am sure that these are extreme although probably well publicized exceptions to the basic bullying problems.

Its cool to know that you can make people question their views sometimes.

That is the whole point of discussion and argument.

I know but it never seems to happen at least not from me anyway.

Just curious, who did you make fun of and what for?


Beats me.

It was the grand tradition of the 8th graders being very unpleasant to the 7th graders.

Highlights, as I can remember them, were things like head-peggings in dodgeball games, throwing shoes across locker rooms.

Well I am all for having an open mind.

Hey that is what I am saying. You did the right thing. You stood up to them. I never said you had to beat them in a fistfight you just have to be willing to fight back. If it is still a problem the kid should take advantage of resources from adults. I disagree about prevention. I think that this is an important life lesson. In other words standing up to bullies is an important part of your education and development. It is more important than algebra or whatever because it is about pride and how we deal with bullies as individuals and societies. I think we learned that this is how it is done in Japanese schools but it could have been in Chinese schools.

I would much rather have kids not know their algebra than have them grow up into people who "do not want to become involved" when they see someone in need of help in dealing with a violent whacko. Kids should not grow up thinking that they need to rely on authorities. In my country (USA) we have an ideal called self reliance as well as a value that seems odd to Europeans -mistrust of big government. By standing up to someone that is bullying you or others smaller than you, you are putting our values into action.

I do not know too much about the murder and suicide thing but I am sure that these are extreme although probably well publicized exceptions to the basic bullying problems.


Yes I'm from the US as well. I would have been much better off if I wouldn't have had to stand up for myself in these situations in the first place. I'm not talking about basic teasing,etc. I'm talking about the serious crap that occurs every day in every school that drives kids to suicide etc.

I started carrying a knife in school to try and make it stop. Is that healthy? I was a nervous wreck every day.

Relying on authorities to do their job and make sure kids aren't getting hurt (like in school) does not equal teaching kids to do nothing and not get involved.

Its cool to know that you can make people question their views sometimes.


There is a big difference between a confrontation like


"Existance precedes essence? That is the rubbish, surely essence precedes existance!"

and one like

"Oooh! Got your shoes! Bitch! Fetch!"

Yes I'm from the US as well. I would have been much better off if I wouldn't have had to stand up for myself in these situations in the first place. I'm not talking about basic teasing,etc. I'm talking about the serious crap that occurs every day in every school that drives kids to suicide etc.

I started carrying a knife in school to try and make it stop. Is that healthy? I was a nervous wreck every day.

Relying on authorities to do their job and make sure kids aren't getting hurt (like in school) does not equal teaching kids to do nothing and not get involved.

A knife might have been a little excessive.

I have nothing against knives though. I carried a knife with me in my school days too but I never did so with the thought of using it to hurt anybody. I basically just had it on me because I was a cub scout and later a boy scout and you just know that a knife is a pretty good tool to always have on you. Particularly swiss army knives. It wasn't a big deal. Now people freak out about pocketknives in schools. It used to be nothing for high school kids to have guns in their cars when I was in school. Now they did not bring them into school or anything, they were left in their vehicles. Kids would go hunting or target shooting after school. Nowadays schools think that if you have guns in your car that you are some psycho. It is all because of a few rare but well publicized incidents.

It sounds like things were a little out of hand at your school. No wonder you have such a position on things. Perhaps then the idea is that schools with really bad bullying problems should have different approaches to the problems than other schools?

There is a big difference between a confrontation like


"Existance precedes essence? That is the rubbish, surely essence precedes existance!"

and one like

"Oooh! Got your shoes! Bitch! Fetch!"

I was talking about that, I know theres nothing you can say to a bully other than to fuck off

once I almost put a bully's head through our classroom's window, then threw him over some tables and chairs.
Another time I put a turning sidekick into a another bully's gut as he was attempting to tackle me. Shut them both up for a very long time till graduation. :)

It sounds like things were a little out of hand at your school. No wonder you have such a position on things. Perhaps then the idea is that schools with really bad bullying problems should have different approaches to the problems than other schools?

Now we're getting somewhere. I don't think schools should suspend kids,etc. for calling susie a "dirty poopy head", but stuffing kids heads in toilets (swirlies), beatings, excessive verbal abuse, etc. shouldn't be tolerated.

Things were out of hand at my school. These things were happening to me daily . It didn't stop until I unintentionally got the school board involved as I stated earlier. I didn't want to be seen as a wimp by going to the school so I tried to deal w/ it. It didn't work and may have ended up badly. I was very close to reaching my limit.

The kids need to know that if they can't reasonably deal w/ it, they can go to an authority for help and that the authorities will do what they can to prevent these things from continueing outside of their influence.

I'm just going to say this once, the only thing anyone understands is force. No authority will give a damn about you and anyone who says that kids should give up and run to an instructor should die.

They have no idea what it's like to be held down and beaten in the middle of a hall every week. To have someone who could stop it standing just a stones throw away. To have them see it happening, look you right in the eye, and turn away.

Eventually one day I guess I had enough. I got a hold of the nearest one--to this day I don't even know his name. I had him by the neck. Crushing his windpipe shut. I watched him struggling for air. I felt a bit like a spectator. Calm. Disconnected. Watching justice. I knew what I was doing. I knew it was wrong. I knew I should've let go and stopped. But I didn't. I couldn't.

His friends came to the rescue. Only after it was over did the authority figure step in. I was punished. They got away. But it was nearly a month before anyone even said a negative thing to me or behind my back.

It's unfortunate that no one ever seems learns their lesson. The next year a student was stopped with a knife.

Killing the tormentors only solves the problem that the select few who die present. There will be others. To take their place. To mourn their loss. To praise their names and depict them as innocent choir boys and little angels to the public. It's amazing how much you can forget when someone dies. And how much you remember that never happened.

I never said you had to beat them in a fistfight you just have to be willing to fight back.

Mighty big of you. You still seem to think that a fistfight between kids is an all right thing.

If it is still a problem the kid should take advantage of resources from adults. I disagree about prevention. I think that this is an important life lesson. In other words standing up to bullies is an important part of your education and development. It is more important than algebra or whatever because it is about pride and how we deal with bullies as individuals and societies.

You are so deranged-sounding in this last statement I am beginning to assume that this may be just some persona you've crafted.

"Standing up to bullies is an important part of your education and development". Right-o, I'll remember that when I read through the curriculum handbook.

Let's see, oh there it is: "Always make time for an adult-administered fistfight in the gym, if two children are having issues with one another." Oh, and: "A mere fistfight is normal, but if it goes too far, adults should then intervene". Yes indeedy. The US Dept. of Ed. agrees with you whole-heartedly.

I think we learned that this is how it is done in Japanese schools but it could have been in Chinese schools.

Yep, great examples of people not cowed into submission by the pressures of their bosses, the government, and other "tyrants" you seem so eager to take on.

I would much rather have kids not know their algebra than have them grow up into people who "do not want to become involved" when they see someone in need of help in dealing with a violent whacko. Kids should not grow up thinking that they need to rely on authorities. In my country (USA) we have an ideal called self reliance as well as a value that seems odd to Europeans -mistrust of big government. By standing up to someone that is bullying you or others smaller than you, you are putting our values into action.

Yes, of course. By commiting to pre-emptive, systematized violence, in order to supposedly curb the same, you are proving yourself to be a Truer American than those whiny libs and other pussies.

I'd be more cool about the spanking of children if it weren't so brazenly advocated by people who evidently neither know nor care about the limits of discipline, and when it turns into mere infliction of pain.

Oh, but I forgot, a little infliction of pain is o.k. Until it goes too far, of course.

And somehow, your willingness to fight, and hurt someone who is under your care for not being aswilling to fight, well, that's just teaching them about good old fashioned self-reliance and that lovely word,"Pride".

A-holes like you mistake belligerence for pride constantly. I doubt your pride. As I do your fitness to be a parent, or to call out for "American values."

EDIT: Your defense, that all those not in favor of your ideas, would be easily victimized in countries like N.Korea. :confused: What the fuck?

Do you think YOU, oh great American Values trumpeter, if you were thrown to those jackals wouldn't also be stomped into the ground? Bullshit; you've got no defense they couldn't counter.

Stop equating our distaste for your sadism as an easily-crushed spirit, and don't bring up being a prisoner-of-war in NK as if it was relevant to the American school system.

once I almost put a bully's head through our classroom's window, then threw him over some tables and chairs.
Another time I put a turning sidekick into a another bully's gut as he was attempting to tackle me. Shut them both up for a very long time till graduation. :)

Ah story time! Some kid jumped me in the middle of class because I made a "ya mom" joke in response to his apperently his mom was sick or something.
About a year later the fucker arrived at my house party with a group of friends asking to come in. I told them to hang on a second, got a plank of wood from the garden and chased him down the street with it.

Good times

It is hard to feel bad for a dead bully. However, I am not so sure that bullies deserve death. I agree that people who do not stand up to bullies are not ready yet for adulthood but I also think that you only need to stand up somewhat and then get help if the situation continues or gets out of hand.

Almost anybody can stand up for themselves. This is an important part of growing up (as I mentioned in my earlier post). There is a role for parents, teachers, etc. to step in once things get out of hand or if the bully does not back down after being stood up to.

In schools, the gym teachers should be able to help keep things safe by providing the boxing gloves and the mat to fight it out on. Then the gym teacher should make them shake hands and if anything happens after that expell the bully and lock him up in a juvenile detention center.

...so, some kid walks up and punches me in the head, and therefore I'm forced to have a boxing match with him?

That wouldn't increase my self-worth or self-respect. That would make me feel like utter crap, because now apparently the teachers also believe that I deserve to be punched.

Kherberusovichnya,

Do you disagree with any of the following:

1) Standing up to a bully can be good for pride, dignity, honor?
2) Societies benefit by children learning that bullies need to be stood up to?
3) Societies are more likely to use military force against bullying regimes (such as Iraq) if their children are taught at an early age to stand up to bullies?
4) Societies are more likely to have active citizens looking out for one another if they are encouraged to look out for one another and protect the weaker of their fellows from bullies?
5) Spanking can be good for discipline?

I agree with the above. I assure you I honestly believe that the above is true and is not a made up persona. I also believe that although these beliefs may be open to debate by reasonable people with differing views, my beliefs are not bizare.

I am also proud that I have stood up to those who bullied myself and others while a young man. I am also proud of my grandfather who fought the nazis who were a form of institutional bully. What do I have to be ashamed of? I behaved in a fashion that I believed to have been honorable.

I am also proud that I am not a "pussy lib". Are you a "pussy lib"? Are you proud of it? Is Nevil Chamberlain your hero? Do you think tyrants should be appeased? Do you think that powerful nations should sit idly by and watch oppresive regimes like North Korea torture and imprison people for exercising basic human rights?

Ah story time! Some kid jumped me in the middle of class because I made a "ya mom" joke in response to his apperently his mom was sick or something.
About a year later the fucker arrived at my house party with a group of friends asking to come in. I told them to hang on a second, got a plank of wood from the garden and chased him down the street with it.

Good times

hell yeah.
Afterwards the whole class and school was laughin at them.
I loved it. Eight grade!!

Kherberusovichnya,

None too fast on the rebuttal now are we?

I'm just going to say this once, the only thing anyone understands is force. No authority will give a damn about you and anyone who says that kids should give up and run to an instructor should die.

They have no idea what it's like to be held down and beaten in the middle of a hall every week. To have someone who could stop it standing just a stones throw away. To have them see it happening, look you right in the eye, and turn away.

Eventually one day I guess I had enough. I got a hold of the nearest one--to this day I don't even know his name. I had him by the neck. Crushing his windpipe shut. I watched him struggling for air. I felt a bit like a spectator. Calm. Disconnected. Watching justice. I knew what I was doing. I knew it was wrong. I knew I should've let go and stopped. But I didn't. I couldn't.

His friends came to the rescue. Only after it was over did the authority figure step in. I was punished. They got away. But it was nearly a month before anyone even said a negative thing to me or behind my back.

It's unfortunate that no one ever seems learns their lesson. The next year a student was stopped with a knife.

Killing the tormentors only solves the problem that the select few who die present. There will be others. To take their place. To mourn their loss. To praise their names and depict them as innocent choir boys and little angels to the public. It's amazing how much you can forget when someone dies. And how much you remember that never happened.


You think a system where someone had to be killed works?

Kherberusovichnya,

Do you disagree with any of the following:

1) Standing up to a bully can be good for pride, dignity, honor?
2) Societies benefit by children learning that bullies need to be stood up to?
3) Societies are more likely to use military force against bullying regimes (such as Iraq) if their children are taught at an early age to stand up to bullies?
4) Societies are more likely to have active citizens looking out for one another if they are encouraged to look out for one another and protect the weaker of their fellows from bullies?
5) Spanking can be good for discipline?

I agree with the above. I assure you I honestly believe that the above is true and is not a made up persona. I also believe that although these beliefs may be open to debate by reasonable people with differing views, my beliefs are not bizare.

I am also proud that I have stood up to those who bullied myself and others while a young man. I am also proud of my grandfather who fought the nazis who were a form of institutional bully. What do I have to be ashamed of? I behaved in a fashion that I believed to have been honorable.

I am also proud that I am not a "pussy lib". Are you a "pussy lib"? Are you proud of it? Is Nevil Chamberlain your hero? Do you think tyrants should be appeased? Do you think that powerful nations should sit idly by and watch oppresive regimes like North Korea torture and imprison people for exercising basic human rights?


Who is talking about appeasing tyrants?
You are talking about teaching children that using physical violence to solve problems is acceptable.
You were talking about punishing a child for asking for help.
No one has denied that spanking is sometimes necesaary, yet you seem to equate NOT teaching physical violence as a first resort to being anti-spank and anti-discipline. You're the only one hung up on "spanking" and who seems to have stated that teaching violence as a first resort is "discipline".
You seem to think that anyone who is horrified by the suggestion of punishing or hitting a child who comes to you for help must be a "pussy lib".

Kherberusovichnya,

Do you disagree with any of the following:

1) Standing up to a bully can be good for pride, dignity, honor?
2) Societies benefit by children learning that bullies need to be stood up to?
3) Societies are more likely to use military force against bullying regimes (such as Iraq) if their children are taught at an early age to stand up to bullies?
4) Societies are more likely to have active citizens looking out for one another if they are encouraged to look out for one another and protect the weaker of their fellows from bullies?
5) Spanking can be good for discipline?

Stop equating schoolyard fighting with learning a lesson about pride.

While fighting isn't necessarily "evil" or any other such hippie claptrap, it doesn't help any goddamned kid with their self-esteem. It teaches them to wait and gear up for the inevitable retaliation. Which means that conflict is, eventually, all they're thinking about at school.

That's what it taught me. That's what it taught kids I knew who were way deeper into trouble than I was. That's what it's teaching a whole shitload of students I am watching go down the tubes. They won't get help from anyone, for fear of having their "pride" or "honor" questioned.

I agree with the above. I assure you I honestly believe that the above is true and is not a made up persona. I also believe that although these beliefs may be open to debate by reasonable people with differing views, my beliefs are not bizare.
I am also proud that I have stood up to those who bullied myself and others while a young man. I am also proud of my grandfather who fought the nazis who were a form of institutional bully. What do I have to be ashamed of? I behaved in a fashion that I believed to have been honorable.

You have to be ashamed that, at multiple points in this thread, you asserted that learning systematized violence against others makes kids into real adults, and that it was a core value that they should accept in order that they be real Americans.



You have to be ashamed that you think frightening a young child into submitting to an "under-siege" mentality is teaching them "self-reliance". That your rejection of their legitimate fear and pain is somehow a good thing, rather than abusive parenting.

By the way, the "genuine" nature of your beliefs neither impresses me nor makes me respect you.

I am also proud that I am not a "pussy lib". Are you a "pussy lib"? Are you proud of it? Is Nevil Chamberlain your hero? Do you think tyrants should be appeased? Do you think that powerful nations should sit idly by and watch oppresive regimes like North Korea torture and imprison people for exercising basic human rights?

Again, stop assuming that you can draw idiotic parallels between international events and schoolyard fistfighting, and that it will be taken seriously. Only morons would see the above anything other than false equivocation.

"Yeah, I don't agree that harming children to toughen them up is o.k...hence, Kim Jong-Il is a great guy."

I'm no pacifist, and I do believe in the use of force to protect children. Just not defensive force originating from children, who should be busy doing things like... being children!

Come around my work, make yourself known, I'll show you pussy fucking lib.

You are a menace, and all the mealy-mouthed hair-splitting in the world won't change it.

EDIT: "None too fast on the rebuttal?" Who gives a shit? I'm not by my screen every second, and yeah, I type for shit. So what? How is that even worthy of commentary?

Since when is my post-speed saying anything about anything?

I feel no need to rush a response anyhow. I gave up actually being interested in discussing things with you pages and pages ago. You're a scumbag.

once I almost put a bully's head through our classroom's window, then threw him over some tables and chairs.
Another time I put a turning sidekick into a another bully's gut as he was attempting to tackle me. Shut them both up for a very long time till graduation. :)
So violent! I can handle myself well in a fight, but I don't seek them out.
At any rate, the bullies at my school are the preps who don't give my nerds a single thought except rejection. May those whores burn in hell! :mad:

I read in the local paper today that my former bully is wanted by the police for failing to appear in court. Her picture was on the front page and everything. Made me realise just how much better than her I am :cool:

I always found that the best way to deal with it was to ignore them (obviously not always possible... but it worked for me). It also taught me to become a smart ass with a quick tongue (nasty groups of kids give up quickly when you've got an equally nasty smart-alec reply for them).

Although, when it came to some kid beating up my brother, now thats different. Don't pick on a kid with an older sibling ;)